Holocaust Survivor Margot Friedlander is 101 Years Old | USC Shoah Foundation

my name is Nancy Fisher  today's date is May 19 1998 I'm here to interview the Survivor Margot and  friedlander birth name Ani Margot bendheim in her home in Queens New York City New York  the language of this interview is English my name is Nancy Fisher today's date is  May 19 1998. I'm here to interview the survival Margot and friedlander her  birth name was Annie Margot Ben time I'm here to interview her in  her home in Queens New York City USA and the language of this interview is English pl

ease tell me your name and spell it my  name is Margot friedlander m-e-r-g-o-t f r i e d l a n d e r do you have a middle  name n which I don't use what was your name at Birth Annie Margot friedlander a-n-n-i  m-a-r-g-o-t been time b-e-n-d-h-e-i-m did you have a Hebrew name yes I think guitar and did you have a nickname [Music] which is like a little Mouse  who gave you that nickname probably my grandmother uh maybe also  my mother but probably my grandmother what is your date of birth uh Novemb

er 5  1921. and what is your age today uh 76. please tell me your father's name  and spell it been time a r t h u r b-e-n-d-h-e-i-m where was your father  born in London l-a-n-g-e-n that is near darmstadt or Frankfurt Germany your mother's name Auguste called Auguste a-u-g-u-s-t-e gross g-r-o-s-s where was your mother born  intention t e s c h e n which was in German did you have any brothers or sisters  yes I had one brother his name was Ralph r-e-l-p-h he was four years younger than I am do yo

u know your grandparents names yes  my grandfather was Wilhelm that was my mother's father I did not know my grandmother my  grandfather married again he lost his wife and my mother was 15 years old approximately he married  a lady that I loved very much her name was adila a d e l e and that's the only grandmother from my mother's side only I know my father's  mother was Betty Ben time b-e-t-t I and she um lived and still was  deported in her mid-80s to tourism where did she live in Berlin after

my father got  married was married me before a year he bought his mother brother and sister both brother and sister  unmarried to Berlin from London and her husband my grandfather must have passed away very very young  I have no I don't know I don't even know his name he must passed away before the first world  war before 1914 my father had another brother I don't know his name because  he was killed in the 1940 14 War did you ever learn how your parents met no no they met in Berlin but I don't

know how where did you grow up in Berlin I was born  in lindenstrasse very close to the Temple of lindenstrasse that was in 1921 in the housing was  very difficult to get in my parents lived there then they moved to the apartment and we stayed  there for many many years I would say probably 12 years where my brother was also born in when  we lived in that apartment I'm Kurdish and Park and that was the center of Berlin you know my  husband my father had a business that was in the center of Berl

in and so it was convenient  for him to live in the center of Berlin what kind of a neighborhood was it it was very  nice a good middle class very very close half a block away from a park the cornershop park where  they also had the museum and statues and very very pleasant very very nice very Central  centrally located but a very quiet Street was it mostly residential yes yes the street  was totally residential there was a building across the street that was I don't know  some agency was in the

re so it was very quiet there was nobody in the evening we  could sit on the Terrace on our balcony and eat dinner out there and nobody  could lock in it was very very nice if you and I were standing in front of your  building where you lived what would we see the building across the street  not a narrow Street a fairly open um we lived one block away from the corner and if he turned when we got out of our house  and we turned to the left we had one more house and then we were in the park what 

did the facade of your house look like I don't I mean it had Terraces every apartment  type of one on top of each other we had flowers on the facade there was a little storm like having  next door milk and I know that the meats went there also because they had machines when you  washed the linen that you put Rawless the linen on rollers and you put them into the machine and  it straightened the big linen sheets out already the machines went to one side and to the other  and the ruler went along

and the laundry was on it that was also in that small store I don't know  more how many floors did the building have I would think four yeah we had we looked out the back  there was I don't know what you call this a a hoof you know and sometimes musicians came and sang in  them in the back and you saw some uh pennies or a dollar wrapped in paper down to them when they  say and we could see for many years the park from our back windows the kitchen and the  bedrooms face the back but it was open i

t was very pleasant later on they  built across from the park along so that the view was we could not see it was  far enough away it was not close by but they built some buildings also had something  to do with I think kanken Castle buildings don't know something like that that's where  we lived I would think probably 10 12 years was your home typical of other middle class  families yeah yeah the living room and dining room and our children's rooms it's a bedroom  for the parents a big kitchen a

maid's room bathroom it had hot water we did not  have Steam Heat we had stoves in the mid was the cool was brought up there was a balcony  in the back the coal men came up with schools on his back and he put them into the back balcony  and somewhere they've left in the downstairs each one had a storage room in the basement every  tenant had the storage room and they made when the coal was used up that was on the balcony she  went downstairs and brought coal up again and heated every room in th

e morning when we got up  for breakfast the dining room was already heated how did you keep food as far as I remember we had a pantry that was  quite cool underneath the window in the kitchen there was a cabinet that had louvers to the  outside I don't remember that it was at very hard in later years I do remember that we had a  refrigerator but the Iceman came and brought ice big chunks of ice in your head a faucet on the  on that refrigerator not electric and you opened in the wood and a littl

e pale and any source of  water could drip out from the ice that melted where did you sleep we had a children's home  in a bed very comfortably very nicely did you share the room for a while yes then later or not  anymore we had two rooms two children's homes what did your part of the  bedroom look like for a girl I don't think it was very elaborately fancy  I don't think so we had toys I had dolls oh I like to when I was fairly small I  made already little dresses for my dolls but I don't recal

l that it was anything very fancier functional I would say  today do you recall a favorite toy no okay yes I do I had a teddy bear that my uncle  gave me my father's brother Uncle Sally when I was very young very small and this teddy bear from  Steve was much bigger at that time than I was and I dragged him later on and I  had him for many many many years he he was in the apartment till the end and was  that was my teddy bear very big did he have a name I don't know I don't know did you have a f

avorite doll no I don't  recall I know I always liked animals probably better even than dolls but I don't recall what about your clothing that you wore Nice  Clothing my parents bought there was a store Arnold Muller I think was her name and I  recall that they bought lovely clothes with showing and very very pretty  yes I brought pretty close what did you look like let's say on a on a  typical day not a special day of the week or a special celebration I don't know probably just like any  other

girl with skirts or little dresses not not particularly fancy I don't think just like  everybody else nice clean comfortable I guess do you recall a favorite dress yeah I think the one the particulars at one from Arnold Muller this is the  quoted smoking it had like a little the upper part was ensuring  yes it was very very pretty when you think about your  father what images come to mind he was a very good looking [Music] very intelligent very hard  working men who went every day to his busines

s and was very very good to us loved us very much on Sundays we went in the morning to  the bed and he played we went onto his knees and he played hopper Hopper  writer you know this is you left your you know and we loved it I loved my father very  very much and I think he loved me very much what was your father's business  my father had a wholesale business it's a little hard to explain in Berlin  there were many many little stores who made because a lot of dresses were made by dressmakers  and

they needed buttons and they were covered buttons there was a machine about that  tool and little parts of it about that size and you cut a piece of Claws and you  put a part onto this little machine and the second part on top and to turn the machine  onto that bigger machine and you turned a handle and depressed the button together and this  was then a covered button for dresses these machines and the parts my father sold to  the to the stores in Berlin there were many many many they made plea

ts for dressmakers  and they sold buttons and meat buttons and also for the for the Garment there was a  tremendous garment industry in Berlin and my father's business was in that area with the  Garment industry was my father bought another place out which was called M schleier and it was  m schlayer nag forget time which had all kinds of beautiful buttons and buckles everything for the  government industry that they needed and my father had a business the which was also with Denmark and  Hollan

d mostly I think also Norway where he sold but only the machines and the little parts and  so for to make the Clause buttons he went there at least twice a year to and he had salesmen  in these two countries that took care of it do you recall any time that you spent in  his store yes I went there quite often yes to visit my father and whenever I came he sent  out in the afternoon to a very lovely Bakery on household type plots stider and had  cake brought in and we had coffee and cake were you e

ver allowed to either operate those  machines yes I did because my grandfather my mother's mother father head these machines  also but my father only sorted wholesale where my grandfather not he they had a employee  meet the buttons for the garment industry David is very small on a little table  you could have two girls sitting you could have two machines and they operated  it wasn't noisy at all it was very quiet I mean nothing you know you just turned the  handle and I always said something li

ke explaining put the material on and to put it in  and turn it around and Pops the button comes out when you think about your  mother what images come to mind my mother was a very very  good looking woman very modern actually the business that my father took over my mother bought into the  marriage my mother came to Berlin it must have been during the first world war I'm  not quite sure because her father had moved from tession after a couple of years probably  after his wife passed away to Ber

lin Merit his second wife my grandmother Adele  and my mother had a few more sisters that lived in tertion later on tantietti  came to Berlin to and my mother opens the first business which she gave  the first one to her father the second one that she opened this just these machines  to mix the buttons she gave to her sister because her husband by that time came out  of the wall and was blinded through a bomb that detonated close to him and he could  not pursue his business so my mother gave thi

s to her sister because she could do the  third business she opened the same thing and when she got married my father took over and  he was the only one who never made any buttons but Pursuit only is a wholesale business of it meaning  that he sold only the machines and the little parts to different places that made the buttons  what role did your mother have in the household my mother my parents got married on the 4th of  November 1920. I was born one year and one day after November 21. when my

brother became pregnant  my father bought his family over from London and took his brother into the business to take the  place of my mother so my mother was a housewife she was we had a mage but my mother was  a wonderful cook and Baker wonderful and even so she did not I mean we had the mate that  also cooked she taught her we had made her names Frieda for many many years I would think that  she was probably with us for the whole time I'm Carnation Park in the apartment what was  your favorit

e meal did you have a favorite meal no I don't think so but my father I love  gravy so gravies from Patrol stand so and I recall very vividly later on that I wanted to  keep Passover with matzo and my father did not and we had mats we had pot roast this wonderful  gravy and my father left the gravy and he took a little piece of bread and put it at the end  into the gravy and ate it and I I looked and he said well don't you like it and I was really  swayed by it I will never forget and I broke my

Matsu eating because I loved that so very much  somehow it always stayed with me because in a way I was probably a little mad that I did it  but my father did not believe in these things even so he came from a very religious home  what kind of a religious upbringing did you have and traditional my grandfather was a  very religious man he went to synagogue every Friday and Saturday I remember in years past  when it was possible he went to see top hit and he was very active and for holidays Passo

ver for instance he always  brought somebody from the synagogue come with him to sit at the cedar table one  or two people who had nobody then it was circus we he went  to the soccer it's a temple and bought a lot of sweets to give  and his seed in the synagogue was at an it's a corner was the women set upstairs  and some men downstairs and I remember that my grandmother had the first wall my mother sit  next to that grandfather always looked up and he did like my brother was mostly with him and

I  was with my grandmas and my mother it was a very it was conservative but it was a  wonderful choir and an organ and lewandowsky will see Melodies  that were sung which are still my favorite I still remember them we're  going to take a break let me zoom in a moment number two interview with  Margaret friedlander May 19 1998. foreign environment in your own home I would the only thing I recall is actually I  don't recall it because my mother told us when I was small and we were in the inflatio

n my mother  still had a kosher house and she went to the butcher kosher butcher one day and next door of a  couple of doors further was a non-kosher Butcher and the same truck stopped at the non-kosher  butcher and it's a kosher Butcher and delivered meat and she said if this is the case then it  cannot be sukosha and I pay so much more why should I do it it was the inflation after all and  she stopped having a kosher house she did light the candles every Friday my parents pose fasted on  Yom K

ippur and went to the synagogue but otherwise the she did most of it for her father and my first  my father did it for his mother because they both up to the very end kept kosher homes in their  religious what was the Sabbath like in your home um not very much much more in my grandparents home  and I was very often there my grandmother did like the candles and my grandparents had so many books  books and my there was Kiddush and it was very very uh very traditional in my grandparents  house not

very much in my parents house just just that I knew that  we had a good Jewish Home do you have a religious education yes because uh  I when I was finished with my grandma's School I could still probably have gone for one year to  delete seal but my father saw the handwriting on the wall and I went to the grocer hamburger this  was the Jewish school and we learned Hebrew was a must and English and all the other things  I don't did not like the school very much I must say I wasn't very fond of th

e girls and I  had I cannot recall any girlfriends except one Marion Kaplan she left the immigrated  she went to South America I saw her once in America and it didn't work anymore we  somehow have had lived different lives and it was not the same it just did not work so we  the one time we saw each other every the end foreign could you describe your education in Berlin what did it start with well the  education started visiting my school because I went to I don't remember if  it was three years

that we had to go three or four I don't really know exactly anymore  and then it was middle Schuler I had a very my parents were very um they loved music and we had  music in the house they went to the Opera they had season tickets a theater uh I remember when  my father came home everything was laid out for him already to change clothes and my parents went  out theater to the Opera which went to concerts till they could not do it anymore were you  ever taken to Children's performances no I don'

t recall at all when you went to uh I  don't even know if it existed very very much that there were children's performances like here  not crackle or anything like this for children I don't recall in school we had  a little bit but very little when you were in public school Grammar School did you have non-jewish friends as well  as Jewish friends we call very little probably yes I think we did republi I probably  had non-jewish friends but I don't recall like they have big bursty parties here wh

en girls  come and that you have I know that we had birthday parties and that I got gifts but I cannot recall  that I had birthday parties I just don't recall did your family travel yes we did travel you know that I had a younger  person he was four years younger than I am my uncle's bought a very big lunch good it's in  the depression times in chambezzlesi that was big big 1 000 fruit trees  it was on a lake I'm sure uh it had two big buildings recorded the  heaven house and the loiter house th

e um ITA the one who took care of it lived in  the Lloyd house and we hit one apartment also in the loiter house that was primitive but  in those times you did not feel that it was primitive we had a few wombs two wounds one for  my parents one for as children and the big kitchen the maid came along there was a big stove she  heated it there was water boiled on the stove for washing because there was no indoor plumbing  in the loiter house in the Heron house it was but we were from very young ye

ars on we spent an  awful lot of time there and it was just wonderful because we had I learned to swim there it in very  early age we had boats and my cousins were there and we grew up together we we played games and  we had two horses Pasha and Lotto and host one carriages and it was very wonderful but we also  traveled to Czechoslovakia because my mother still had one sister that remained in show Slovakia  intention married there and had the daughter and we visit we went to visit her and went

from  there to mountain resorts in the tatra the name of the Patrick mountain resort was a skalka that  was this is a mountain resort in Czechoslovakia and we went there quite often few times and  that was my parents my father did go to Italy and took secure in Iran but  my mother did not go alone my grandparents traveled my grandfather  and his wife went every year to um Marine but with a Carlsbad which was in  show Slovakia and they took secure because they had those marks this spout and they 

took the waters and they walked and they drank the waters we had these funny looking  things in our home in the house I remember that very very vividly they went every  year it was supposed to be good for them growing up as a child what other  activities are interested you have I would think we probably played a lot  when I was very young in in the park in Coronation park there was a little bit of a  hill in the winter I remember that we went up that hill and we say slate wrote down it was  won

derful and a lot of fun I don't think that it is not that the activities were very great but  when I was very young I think I must have been and maybe four four and a half I went for a few maybe a few months I don't recall how long to a  dance dance class Mary Mary Vickman was her name but I did not like it very much so we I joined  I was probably not even five a sports club it was part of Maccabi they had sports activities  and the their Sport Club was meeting in Google that was little bit of o

utside of Berlin and I did a very very I was very  very sporty I loved Athletics and a 100 meter rounds and I did this from I would  think probably as long as bakopa was in in action how old were you when the Nazis came to power um in 33 they came into Power I was  born in 21 I must have been about 12. what is your earliest memory my memory was  because we had for a number of years a cousin the son of my mother's sister who passed  away very young living with us and my father did send him to a p

lace to learn a trade a Fourier  Mr Fix I think was her name and Irish lived with us and Irish belonged to the was involved with  I don't know what's a party's name was social Democrats I would think and when the Nazis  started marching in the street after 33 he was the opposite was the opposite party  marching and he was very badly beaten and after that maybe a couple of years or so  later he left Berlin and went back to Tashan where he came from originally where my mother was  also born and by

his sister he was a he had no more parents the mother passed to be very young  and then the past father passed away very young so he was there were three one brother and two  sisters the youngest one my grandparents took in her name was Ani that's why I was always called  Margot because there was another Annie and his name was erish and there was the oldest sister  healed she stayed on intention so he he went back what do you recall about the parades or the marches or the singing I would think

I remember the marches and the singing and I don't know  if it registered in retrospect only I can say that I don't understand understand it at all  that we did not see the handwriting on the wall it must have been horrendous and  I don't know why we looked away the it was always thought this cannot last my mother had leaning to Zionism so did  I I also belong to for a short while to a Jewish [Music] Zionist Club I don't  know if it remembers the name and we met on weekends we sat around in a ci

rcle the girls  we sing Hebrew songs so I had definite leanings towards Zionism no question about it so did  my mother but not at all my father and um he would have never thought of going to Palestine was there  ever any consideration of leaving Germany there was a very big problem in our family my  father had two brothers and a sister both were handicapped they had both problems with their  legs and America would have never taken them in so my mother my father never  made an effort to ask for u

m for his he had family here in America quite a few cousins to send him affidavits  because he did not want to leave Germany on account of his old mother and the two and  brother and sister he didn't want to leave them what happened to the brother and sister  they came to tourism start it's the end of 1942 and I know that my grandfather mother passed away intelligent start I know  that my uncle took his life according to a note that I got that my aunt passed  away in tourism stud I heard differe

ntly I understood that she was taken in one of  the transports from Teresa to Auschwitz foreign if it wasn't so anyway she was not there  anymore when I came to tourism so they perished was there a radio in your house yeah  was there ever an opportunity to hear Hitler speaking [Music] um yes yes one could hear him speaking did you  ever see him don't yes I saw him I saw him at the Olympic Games because we my mother and I  visited a friend who lived on a street on that day that faced throughout w

here he was going to the  Olympics and I must say that we very we were very much afraid to go to the window but we stood a  little bit away because he was in an open motor cage going along that Street and if something  would have happened we were afraid that they would take every Jew who lived on the street  away it was already very dangerous but it was when the Olympic Games were played in  Berlin my cousin even Irish came to Berlin and they made belief like nothing ever happened it was  horren

dous because they they played played up to to the foreign guests and behaved at their best did Berlin change in any way During  the period of the Olympic Games foreign I don't know if it changed  very much we it probably did but you know we lived a certain life in 30 well that we might get to it later I went to  school and I came home and I I don't know if I really don't know see my parents divorced and certainly I think  it was 36. I am not quite sure of the date and life was not very easy  bec

ause it was very hard for us to we love I loved my father and I loved  my mother and we were very much torn and we lived a very you know we saw my father  quite often he picked us up and we had dinner with him and he took us to his mother 's  house where we had dinner my brothers and me I only remember that we were very agitated when  we came home not that anything was said but you know our personal life involved us very very much  I don't know if outside things be there young I don't know if I

realized really  what was going on at that time was there a time when you were treated differently but keep you on the street  other children Neighbors if it was so I cannot recall did you ever see other people being beaten up no one heard about it did other families leave other friends yes slowly people left friends left partly to Palestine it was a very very big family and I had  uncles in Holland my mother's cousin and there was one incident and I  don't recall exactly when it was that my mot

her and two of my cousins that we  went to a cafe in the late afternoon or evening Jeannie and Emmy and my mother  and myself and there was a action that they came and took us  out of the coffee house by truck and brought us to the police  station and kept us here I do not recall really if the interrogated us very much but it was very frightening but  he did let us go towards the morning this cousin Gene corn gold today Gosset and Amy both immigrated her parents my mother's  cousins the old the

whole family they were eight or nine brothers and sisters went  to Holland and only one Uncle survived later on because Uncle George took them all over they all wanted to  wait for the immigration to America my cousin Jean had a brother two brothers and  a sister Herman Henry and Carla they all left they all are here these are second  cousins of mine her parents never made it what was the response of the hero sugar  minder in Berlin to this Gathering storm I think I would think that I was too yo

ung to  realize and I only know one thing that I tried that must have been after the Christina after 38. my father's business was not smashed because it  was upstairs my father disappeared for a few days in hiding it came back went back to his business there  was a gentile it was taken over by Gentiles my father in 39 still got a passport on account of the business that he had with  Denmark and foreign countries to show the new owner take him to this country because they were  very interested to

get got to foreign currency that was all before the war so my father went in  39 with the new owner to Denmark and to Holland and I'm sure that he wanted to arrange something  for himself to be able to stay and he could not my father came back and I cannot even recall if I  saw him again or not because a few days after he left Berlin and went over the border and  fled to Belgium left his mother and brother and sister and us you as I mentioned  before my parents were divorced already and I'll be

stayed with my mother  and we did get money months sleep money from I don't know how that worked you know in those years and that's why I  know so very little parents did not talk about money with children money was not mentioned  or anything else so many things were not mentioned children their children it is not like it is today  we get too much kept in the dark what happened to your father my father lived in Belgium and we had  we correspond with him he had certain um foreign s in um as much

as immigration or what we should  do and we try desperately to get out one day it was said you can go for so on so  many dollars to Honduras Guatemala um and my mother had a system that immigrated to  Tanta Yeti and Uncle Adam very early in 35 to Brazil and they tried to send us a shamada  it was called like the same to America the [Music] what is it called now anyhow  time to Yeti should send us a shamada and my mother went to the consulate  we're going to take a break this is tape number thre

e interview  with Margaret friedlander May 19 1998. um so my father left fled Germany and that  was 1939. we in the meantime my mother my brother and I moved into a Pantheon  mandovsky where we had two wombs and then let's say the crystal enough my brother was  supposed to be Bar Mitzvah at that time and he couldn't I came downstairs and I wanted to go to  the little place where I worked as he seems a Liam imagine an apprentice in a little Salon Rose along  Natan Zone and the west of Berlin not

too far from where we lived and on the morning of after the  croissant Act I went downstairs to go to work and it was in Eerie eerie quietness in the street smelled too and before I even got to the streetcar that  took would have taken me I saw so many places smashed devastated this smell was in the air of burning and we had  no idea no clue whatsoever and I went back home and as a day went on we heard what was  going on it was very very frightening my brother I would think probably try to go to

  school and came back we were all at home was I would sing only Jewish people lived there  and slowly people got together and you you heard what was going on and I still would say in  retrospect I don't know if it registed 100 percent you know when you're young somehow push things away I don't know I cannot tell my life was so like  it if I think today it went like a like a fog passed me and I pushed so many things into the  background and I maybe I did not want to remember and this goes throug

h my whole later on  time that I will tell you about it anyway we did not hear from my father we did not know  what happened to my father only days later did we hear from him because he  went into hiding for a few days because he picked men up they brought  him to concentration camps already then and that we only heard days later it  didn't did not come too quickly to us and um then we were in touch  with my father again [Music] but I could not go back to  rosalang Nathan zones a little place wh

ere I learned sewing where I was an  apprentice could not open anymore because it was Jewish she had Gentile girls  working for her that was the end so slowly we came 39 and my father arranged for me to and come  to the culture Bond he had probably some connections I don't recall exactly how  it happened and the courtroom was playing and they played at that time rehearsed the  Griffin married sir it's Countess Maritza and I was one of the people strangely enough these were still quite nice times

  we were together we had to play they made us play and as far as I understand even a day or two after the crystal Nacht the asked them  to open the cool turban and to play because my husband which I married later boys it's a crucial to abundant since  1934 and he told me all these stories I knew him from the culture when we lost track  but this will come later this was a man I married so I was at Circle Tour burned and we  were there was a wonderful atmosphere but we we somehow wanted to forget

but in  the meantime my father had left Germany shortly after he took me introduced me to the  court robot he fled Germany for Belgium he went over the Border and that was shortly after he  came back from Denmark and Holland when he was showing the new owner it's a business I  guess went on it still existed after the war my aunt and uncle and grandmother were at  home and stayed home my uncle could not work anymore could not go to the business and  my father was in Belgium we were in contact ti

ll one day maybe in 41 it must have been when the  Germans moved into Belgium that he was caught I don't know the details how it happened and  was taken to girls where was girls was in the Purity in France near the Pyrenees Camp  degus we even we had his address a lot I and we hit mail from him my father could  write occasionally one day he wrote to us I had nice company from Switzerland  and we went out and we had a lovely dinner out I'm sure my father  wanted to tell us something I interpreted

this letter in later years here in  America some years ago is that he wanted to tell us that he had connection with Switzerland and  probably money in Switzerland because my father lived in Belgium he left over the Border  he had just the way he was he had to live on something since my father had a business  with Holland and Denmark in Norway I assumed that he had money out in these countries were  transferred to Switzerland all right that went on till sometime in 42 have you never  heard anyth

ing anymore from my puzzle what have you learned since then when the war was over and I am the only one who  survived I was hopeful that since my father wrote that letter that he had company from Switzerland  that he was somehow able to escape I must say that it was a tremendous blow to me that I heard  that it was not so that he was taken from girls to Auschwitz sometime in 1942 towards the end to August September October I only  later on heard sedates I mean it's when it was and he did not sur

vive were there further restrictions and  anti-jewish measures in Berlin that affected your life after Crystal knocked  and certainly after the war started yes actually we had restricted my mother was taking care of us I  think she had restricted hours of going to shop I still worked for the cool turban for quite  a while I had a little I played a page boy and then later on I sewed some costumes we did  not make new costumes theater was closed they moved into a [Music] few blocks a few houses  f

urther into a what you call it two years where they still played music and plays and I saw two costumes I took them home we did not  sew new costumes we had archives and it was I took some home and I saw them and altered them  and took them back and in that year of 39 before the war started we you know desperately tried  to get out of Berlin and there was one at one time we met we were introduced my mother was  introduced to a man who said he can help us to immigrate to America he  has very good

connections to get us a very early number you know you  were registered in numbers and my mother and some other people also from cultural  born Freddie bellina and so gave him money and at one time the man disappeared and we  lived by that at that time already we were see we could not live in apartments anymore we  could not choose where we wanted to live these warehouses that belonged at one time or another  to Jewish Jewish owners those houses were called you not that only Jews lived in there

but you  were moved into but not into an apartment we moved into two rooms at Mrs meissner her daughter  Claire Meisner was still in Berlin it was still before the war and clear and I when this man  disappeared heard that he is in Stuttgart and we went to Stuttgart to find him and to see what  we can find out that we could not find him and we went back to Berlin and then my mother went and  the next we heard was that she was incarcerated because he was found and he implicated her that  she did

certain things and they incarcerated my mother in Stuttgart now I was about 18  years old my brother was four years younger a frightened little thing still going to school  no he must have probably there was foreign they learned skills maybe for immigration like making furniture or these  things and um he was very young and he was frightened and we my mother was  brought to Berlin by the police to alexanderplatz and I was called to testify so where  all the people who gave this man money and tha

t recollection of my brought  to alexanderplatz to walks along Halls and then the door closed behind us and we were taken into these rooms to be singly interrogated not my brother he was  too small he was also very second [Music] um was just horrendous I I was so  frightened I I cannot I cannot just you know what will happen to us what will happen to my mother  what shall I say I don't know really very much but thank God we they let us go and I went  home my brother had flew something you know a

fight probably and my mother came  home a few days later they let her go needless to say I don't know what happened to  the man I don't know it was he was just a con man other than the restrictions on  the hours that you could shop do you recall any other restrictions on  your movements because you were Jewish I only know that we I mean we could not go to  theater or a movie but being then also being very young uh it I don't know if children were  taken that much to theaters or opera or so you

know this had stopped a long time ago actually I  don't know how long my parents went to the theater how long they were able to go but I know that my  parents went to the cold robot to the performances because when the culture Bond when after 33 all the big actors and singers and musicians  and directors could not play at the big theaters anymore they were taken in by the  cultural Bond and it was naturally high at the highest rate of performances because since we're  all very high professionals

so my parents went and I remember that I must have gone if a very few  times because I recall one Opera that I loved and that they played for snabuco and to this  day it's my favorite topic I thought it's good after the war started were you ever required to perform any work for the war effort yes  after I was taken out of the cultural Bond it started that we had to work for the  war effort my brother was taken to Siemens and I worked at the Deuter vehicle in Berlin Iranians it was very close  t

o Scarlet's where we lived maybe just a few blocks it was they  made small parts I don't know if they were for aircrafts or so we worked it's a  Deuter vehicle only juice the night shift and I recall when I came home in the morning my  brother left for Siemens so it was a con you know I slept during the day my brother was home at  night we did not see each other very much and I must say I think the men who see where decent I don't recall incidents that  the very bad to us how many hours did you

work at night I would think that it was  many hours because it was morning it was already light probably at least eight or ten  hours how did you get from home I could walk it was invoking distance I don't know how  my brother got to Siemens which was not and how if he had any certificates that he could  go I think we had restrictions as far as ours are concerned not being on the street and I I do not  recall very much but it is possible that we had um papers to show if people ask  us because it

was evening night or very early morning that we were on the  street I think it was not allowed to go but I don't know exactly if it  was so I think so were you paid I don't recall I doubt it but I don't recall was there a time that you had to wear  any identification as a Jewish woman I don't know the date exactly but I think in 19  40 true it started that he was a star you would you remember about putting that on and yeah I must say that also already at that time I did  we were supposed to wea

r it at a certain place fairly High I must say that I did move it down  and I wore a handbag that I occasionally coveted held to head back so which at  one time later saved my life what color was the star yellow and black writing  on it it was the Star of David yellow this black rims and the Universe spelled in in Black how did you get the star I don't  recall who gave it to us how we got it I have no recollection whatsoever did that affect your feelings of self-worth yes we you know we were so

ah so deprived  at that time already and so low in our spirits because we could not we did not  see anybody my aunts and uncles there was hardly anybody left everybody had disappeared in certain  directions we did not hear from anybody anymore um we did not know what happened to them my grandfather had long passed away and in 42 my  grandmother my aunt and uncle my father's mother we're taken away at one time or another I don't even know when I don't even know how often  I saw them anymore how o

ften we visited because I worked at night and during the day I slept  telephones we were not allowed to have anymore the communication was at best very very poor  the distances where she lived and where we lived was great I don't even know if you  could use public transportation anymore so we lost contact with the outside world so  to speak only is a very immediate my mother my brother Mrs Meisner who lived in the house where  our contacts and some people who lived in the area and after the cult

ure burned and after  starting to work at the Deuter worker we had it you know there were so many  little things in between of that I my mother had an operation at one time and  I met a doctor who treated her that was very very we were very fond of each other and he while  I was at the Toyota Bank he was supposed to his mother and brother were supposed to  be picked up and he committed suicide and while I was at the deuterberg in the  morning somebody told me about it and you know I cannot even

touch on everything that  happened because it was so horrendous and so many I cannot even say in sequence what  happened at that time but so much happened when did your life in Berlin take yet another turn in December of 1942 my cousin's husband the ones who lived in passion actually a little bit before they were  taken to a police camp near billets and he came to Berlin in 1940 in  December of 1942 with a policeman and he wanted to pick us up my mother my  brother and me to come to this police

came it was apparently relative good and she [ __ ] Meister whatever he called was called  ER agreed to take us in they had about 150 people he had 150 people to  walk in his small little Camp there and my mother said you know we are not quite ready they are some furniture  I want to get those out of the house to get to Tanta Ani who was a the wife of a cousin Gentile  in Swiss and when we are ready soon we will come he left after a few days and I must say that  I have very little recollection o

f this but my cousin who survived and his wife and she is  still alive lives outside of Washington told us he told me later on the whole incident  horrendous that we did not go along in January 1943 my mother my brother and  I wanted to leave Berlin for air billets and we had already a few days before left our  apartment in Scarlett sastra so I moved to a friend of my brother's house his mother was  Gentile and the boy was half Jewish this friend my mother went someplace I don't  know probably a

maid former Maid of ours with one release and it's my pleasure and we did occasionally meet in our  apartment in those couple of weeks probably we wanted a little bit of distance you know  to get a way that it isn't that they might not know too much that they don't see us in the  house for a few days or something like that we wanted to meet in the apartment  and make arrangements to leave on that evening for billets we're going  to take a break and resume in a moment this is tape number four  i

nterview with Mark friedlander but that day we met in the morning and I said to my mother I go to a doctor to  get a certificate that I am not well so that they don't miss me in the factory right away  because that evening we all wanted to leave we decided that one gets into the one  at one station my mother at a different station and I at the third station into  the same train but at different stations that was all decided my mother said to me go also to the post office and sent a telegram  to

Hilda to be let's be straight this is a a [Music] how do you say it fought for belits that we are coming my brother went so I heard I was told with a  couple of releases to the railroad station to check two releases for each my mother and  my father to send to me let's be strive and I said I come home when I come from the  doctor so that we can discuss Last Detail in the early afternoon still daylight I go along because and at a distance certain distance  not very far a man walked font of me and

I don't know to this day I can never  tell why I had such a funny feeling if this man goes into our house be careful I wore my star I've worried low he did go into our house and  I followed it was a walk up I wouldn't say very dark but not very  light either you walked up the stairs when you woke up there was on the left  hand side the door of our apartment so its stairs came up you walked up into where  the stairs going up across from our apartment door was another door and when I was halfways

up  I saw the man standing with his back to the door and I covered my stuff with  my hand back and went upstairs past him coldly hardly looked at him bent  further up and rang the bells at one floor above and when these were gentile people  opened the door she wanted to oh and I covered her mouth with my  hand and I went into the apartment and she told me that many hours before CSS came and picked my brother they bent on the door  and I understand that he didn't open right away I also knew that

he wore boots because we wanted  to go with that evening you know he was such a and my cousin Ani was in our house with her  fiancee because he wanted to say goodbye to us because they also if it worked would have  come to be strive to her to her sister that was Hilda and Alvin who was in that  camp and Mrs Meisner was in the house and they broke the door I mean they and they found  my brother so I understand in the closet hiding in Mrs Meisner tied apparently to move from  one tears to the nex

t but they caught her so Mrs Meisner Annie hefiel  C and my brother were taken my mother wasn't home because she went out  to buy maybe a little bit of bread whatever was possible to make maybe a sandwich or  so for us for the train and I wasn't home I stayed there for a few hours till it got  dark which was Winter and dark very early and these people I don't know their name said to  me your mother went two blocks further not blocks houses further to a Jewish couple and they know  you go to them

they will tell you all about it and when I got there she told me fitment that my mother went to the police station and let me know that she wanted to go with  my brother and I should try to make my life it didn't wait for me she did not give me  the chance to make my decision or go with her she knew that I probably wouldn't  have a choice that took over so he took this away from me and that's when I was standing in front of the door on the  street maybe five o'clock in the evening and I didn't

know where to go I couldn't go back  to these people because I forgot to say that this young man was also there to say goodbye to my  brother to his friend they took him to but they released him in the evening because he was Gentile  I couldn't go there because it was well known these people they would have might have looked  there first I had no way I did not know what to do it was a January of 1943. and I went underground did your mother might not believe anything  for you her hand back which

only had a handkerchief in into an address book which  I still have one necklace which I still have because it was not silver gold it  was a gift to her for my father Bernstein and it wasn't taken for me because  it was not anything and that was all not a note nothing not nothing except that she said  to the people please tell my mom got that I will go with God if was that that was that they came to I think the I think it was called where they were interned  for a few days till the transport was

set what was the destination of the transports foreign I didn't know any gentile  people I only had Jewish friends and I went to somebody Ziggy Hills and his  sister I knew them from the culture about it was very dangerous because Jewish  people were picked up every single day but I did go and they took me in and I slept there and I left very  early in the morning like five o'clock and I walked the streets and at a decent hour I went to this aunt Santa Ana that was Gentile  and swiss she had a

few children expert Marion and root and I remember very very well I was in the  dining room tantani was on one side of the table and I was on the other side and  I told her what had happened she said to me what do you want me to do  and I said Santa Ana maybe you can help me she said how do you ask me to help you if you are not willing to help your mother  I said I don't know how to help my mother she said you help your mother when you go with her and I told said to her like I don't know if I ca

n  help her when I go with her I might be able to help her better Center packages or so if I can  stay in Berlin and she said I cannot help you and with that I left her and I went back to Ziggy  and his sister's house and I would think that I stayed there probably  a few more days and I don't know the sequence and I don't know what happened  I only know that I started from then on to find people and it was a constant you  were introduced from one to the other how it happened what my first place 

was I don't know I only know so many different places and so many different instances not a sequence I know that I was stayed with one men who had a fairly large  apartment in every room was rented and he worked probably it had something to do  he was married at one time to a gentile woman so he could still stay but it was probably that  he worked with something that the Nazis needed and I was stayed with there in the apartment I  cleaned the apartment they were was a man and his son lived ther

e and I there was only one  bathroom and I I know it was horrendous and I stayed in one of the rooms that was you walked  through to other rooms was a large apartment and we put a like a little curtain up so that  when people go through this room that they don't see me where I sleep behind but one day  also the SS came and asked for him and wanted to probably take him and I let him in to let them  into the apartment and I don't know how and which way I escaped you know many apartments  large Apa

rtments had big doors and stairs where the mates and just you know  service service entrances I escaped I stayed with a woman she was Gentile and  I also helped her in her apartment to clean and she had every day they played cards in  her apartment and they were also some Jew Jewish people who came I don't know what they  played if they played my young or whatever and she lived very low of the ground floor and there was a hallway dark outside of this  menu rooms and when there is a doorbell ring

and I opened the door and  CSS was in front of the door wanting to come in and I said I I call misses  Sophie so and I went in to see the door into the apartment and I said to the Jewish men there  was one Jewish man I somehow see him he was fairly tall maybe in his 50s low 50s chemically come  quickly with me and I went to the Terrace and jumped down of the From the Terrace to the ground  floor and went around and was hiding in a in a in the in the back door of which we was leading  into the b

uilding but he did not make it he did not he wasn't quick enough you know I was very  young at 20 when 22 years old very agile and anyway I think I also at one time slept  for one or two nights at a couple he was used to be a dentist Jewish and his  wife was Gentile so he it was a mishear and I they had no in the living room they had only  chair there was nothing for me to sleep so I sat in the tree and they had a kit and this cat was  roaming around all night long and one even one at one time j

umped onto the one of the furniture  and it got so frightened you know it was and one day I think saw this woman who  played cards I was introduced to somebody and it turned out to be a man a couple he was a  communist very active and he sent me to a woman to sleep and she said she's very very nice  so I went there in the late afternoon but she was not home so I was sitting on the  stair well outside a poor neighborhood he you know a little low-class neighborhood on the dark stairway and at one

time late  in the evening she came home with the men she let me into the apartment she said sure you  can so we went through home into the next room and she said it was dark you know we had to  cover the windows on account of the air rates and you it was not heated because there was a  stove but no coal or anything it was very very bad we did not have anything so she said it was  a table in the corner there's a Windows where and some chairs and then in the other  Corner was the bet against the w

all oh God I was very happy and she said well if  you have to go out to the bathroom you have to go through my door through my apartment  but outside on the stair there's a toilet I went to bed and I don't know I didn't  feel the things itched me richly there was a tiny little lamp in one corner and I did  putting this lamp on so I thought the bed must have been slept in already before it was a  very bloody marks because we had a lot of months you know animals and this  was was biting me the wal

ls were you know they must have slept to  kill them so I got up and got dressed and sat on the chair all night long  very cold I don't know at that time I I didn't want to I probably  could have stayed there but I couldn't anyway I was in touch  with this man this communist and he and his wife paid you know this is all a spin  of not long not made maybe weeks and I would probably not even months I don't  know maybe a couple of months did you did you assume a different name did you become somebod

y  not not yet not yet but this couple paid for a operation of a nose job and I had my nose  operated to have not such a Jewish nose I have a picture which I and I work across and I had my hair dyed like a reddish tint and this couple introduced me to some from  then on I was handed to various people because the Communists Underground hit connections but this is as you see I did not have a place one place where I stayed I many places  many and this went on and on and on this couple and I don't k

now their  name they had a daughter she was a little younger than I am a pretty girl  blonde long hair bought a place outside of New York little house with a garden and they  wanted to take me along to this place to hide on the day when they truck Furniture truck was  in front of their house I was supposed to come it let's see 10 o'clock in the  morning or eleven to be there when everything was loaded and we wanted to leave I do get there and I see this woman outside still the truck being loaded

crying and she told  me that her husband was picked up that morning from the police CSS he was probably denounced  as a communist and he was never heard of can we just go back for one minute under what  circumstances was this surgery performed on you and when in in the office of  a very famous no surgeon he was the assistant of a Jewish  the no surgeon they called him then then Joseph Dr Joseph was sustained  and he performed I mean before the and he was his assistant and he performed this  thi

s his nurse who was Dr Joseph's nurse in his in the office but I could not go to a  hospital so the nurse took me into where she lived into an apartment a very nice woman and she parked me there so that she could take care  of me for many days after the operation and I know I remember when she took the bandage off she looked at the nose and she took her hand and  she pulled it down because it was like probably very much up and then to break the stitches inside  a little bit and that's the nose I

have today foreign so I went with this wife his  wife and his daughter to the country it was a house in the garden and I only remember  that to get there we had to cause a little stream where a robot had to roll us over a man was always  there and he wrote us over that's all I remember I helped him in the house  I helped them in the garden I even was able to send Hilda a package to  be strife from there which she got but I had two corresponds with her after that anymore and I  did not only much

I mean after in America I heard that she ever that she did get that package  I know nothing I have I didn't know anything and I I just stayed there for a while but it  became I think very dangerous too because of their communist leanings and of the that I could  not when I wanted to go out to go to Berlin I had always to cross that little stream and the man  had to roll me over peoples would have started to ask who is she and why is she there but I was told  before I think it must have been bef

ore or during the time I was with her of a place some women who  would take me in and through this place I went and these women gave me a birth  certificate of their niece and set that I should use this name or at least not always because the girl was  alive I couldn't use it but in case something while I was with this women there was I  think they've assist a few sisters and brother-in-law they all lived in this apartment  I don't recall it very well I did get in touch as you remember I mention

ed that  my aunt Anna had a son Ekberg ekbed worked in Berlin at a dealership  auto dealership on Courthouse Dam the name I remember from carnab and Frank  and there were two employees one was Mr Bailey and one was and he  was Swiss Gentiles and one was a from Budapest ugly Hungarian I knew these men because when I  talked about the furniture that my mother said that we have still furniture they picked them up  and brought them to Tatiana's house and that's why we know I know Mr really and see o

ther men I  got in touch with them and occasionally they let me sleep in the garage back of fancana where  they had cars parked you know these were old older cars you'd had no more new cars from  Canada but Frank at that time sold all cars so that I'm not too long always in one place but I always went back to this  to these ladies till one day the doorbell rang I was alone we  have to take a break and change tapes this is tape number five interview with  Margaret friedlander May 19 1998 before y

ou continue your story let me ask you to  clarify excuse me something you mentioned being uh taken to a to this house outside of  laughs pardon me you said New York but outside of Berlin I don't know exactly I really don't  know anything where it was I pushed everything into the background but of course outside of  Berlin somewhere in distance of maybe an hour please go back to I I never went back to  this place okay I was now at between the home of the sisters and occasionally  occasionally in

the back of the cars but one day when I was at the  sister's house nobody was home but me the doorbell rang and the Gestapo came  again and they came in and they asked I don't know exactly what they wanted to  and what they have who had denounced of what but I said I am the niece and my name is so and so and I am just here  for the day my aunts went to visit my mother in the country and they said what are you doing  she's I said I have a child and my husband is in the war and I'm just visiting a

nd they asked me when were  you born it was a blink a blank blink I did not know I yet so they said this was all  in the hallway taken place well you answered us all the questions don't  be nervous we don't want anything from you and to know I took a deep presence I knew when  I was born and they went into the living room and there was I remember very very clearly  in a little bowl that birth certificate because I didn't take it with me I always  left it there I did not want to have it only use

it if need be and they saw it there  oh they said this is oh yeah I said this is my aunts have this and I don't know why it's  here they say thank you and went and I went down the back stairs and never went back to  that house and I went to the garage again and the fellows let me sleep  there again and they said to me Eggbert knows that you are here and  he did not take very kindly to it and he does not want you want us to help you  further but we know somebody who will come tonight he is the bu

yer who goes to the countries  to buy the cars from people old cars for count up and Frank and he might help  you be here in the evening and I was there and I met this man his name was garzoma and  killed Soma said I introduce you to a couple I know them very well and their name is camplia  and you will be able to live underground with them I do business in Black Market with Hugo and I help  you and he also they were in the wombing house they were actually not married because Google  was had a l

ung disease and under German law you could not marry when you could not produce  children so he left with God hey and Mr zoma sought to it that they went into an apartment  which belonged to the Mr funkanap because he was in the war and he could not hold this apartment  they would have moved people in but they were eligible for an apartment so Hugo and irongat  and I moved into the apartment ill God's father was also in the other rooming house and wore a  big emblem and who go always first fight

ing the same and I later said Hugo why do you fight with  Irma's father he will denounce you no he is he is yellow he always said he will not denounce  me because Hugo was a so anti-nazi like nobody could be worse than who go hating the Nazis and I  went with them to the apartment in fazana Strasser and stayed there for quite a while on and off and  I did this who go Black Market business meaning what Mr zomas brought from the country when he  bought cars he brought meat and butter [Music] and g

old pound and coffee and I did when this  bags and bought these Goods to other people needless to say if I would have caught been caught  with them it would have been horrendous we had big pieces of meat we cut them in the kitchen  into small portions inise also Gretchen lived in the house Gretchen and I in the evening went  and disposed of the bones somewhere in the street in disposable things and then the air rates  came and we had to go down to the bunkers and we um could not I could not do i

t very often  because people would ask who is this woman so very often we went to the official bunkers you  know Eric shelters Gretchen and I or whoever and that went on for quite a while but in  order to relieve a little bit the pressure on the camp layers I went also again to the country  outside of Berlin to get a little room for myself and I went there occasionally and there were  small people I let them know through the owner of this little room that I had up on the on  the and there's a ro

of that I can do sewing and and I went to people and sewed a little bit  made alterations and they gave me meals because I had to eat through the whole time this was the  worst because I did not have I had to fight for my for my foot you know to to get food and people  the come players helped you know and we shared what during this time that you were in hiding what was the hunger like what was it what was  the hunger like very badly because at times I had very little to eat later on after Mr Sum

mer  and the campius came into the pictures was better before it was I was very very hungry very often  because I had very little the people had very little and even if they shared with me it was  very little we they had operation cards and there was only so much that they could buy and it  was hardly enough for them because by now it was I went underground it was  19 end of 19 43 44 already um Air Raids you one year rate I know I wanted  to run the scratch and we were standing in the doorway an

d the bombs fell you know stores  were burning out Apartments everything smelled everything was burning Berlin was people were  moved out of Berlin into the country at that time it might have been possible to move out of  Berlin to go with people to to take different identities on identities because everything was  already quite in a two mile in a turmoil but um two that point at one point Mr summer said I  will take you with me when I go next time to the country to buy I take you I will bring y

ou  to some farmers they will take you in but before that happened we had an earache and I was with  irongat and her brother-in-law Mr camplia's Plaza entries in a bunker Eric shelter in Berlin um the  park where they had the animals they had a very that was not far from us and when we came out of  sabanka we had all a little bit something over our arm like a little release or something that we  always took along we were stopped on the street and asked for identifications and even so I used occa

sionally that name I had  no identification from her this certificate her birth certificate left but I used the name her  name at that time to see people who stopped us they ask all of us and they said okay we will go with you to the  police station to identify if this is the truth to me pointing you the others I guess said they have good  identification I had not I just told them who I am so they took me and they let the campius  go Hugo was not alone his brother was and on the way to the polic

e station  I said don't Bowser I am Jewish you will not find me under this I'm not someone and that was on the 19th of  Jan of April in nineteen 44. how were the people who stopped you identified how they identified how do they look how do they  look what were they wearing civilian clothes who were these people I hate to say it choose what they call them Spitzer they Pride on  Jewish people they had a better eye for Jews than anybody else don't forget it was 1944  officially there were no more J

ews in Berlin only people who were in mixed  marriages were their children they were just a few people still  left from the mind to [Music] um were finished the Mind business so to speak no more people who worked in  factories nothing this was long gone people who were in hiding those  were the one who were left so they took me to the camp the alfonslager was  in the Iranian straws away the Jewish hospital was and when we got there until our later afternoon  whenever that happened till we got th

ere some because talks moved out and that was as  far as I know the last transport to Auschwitz is at least at the time when I was there  because we were there quite a few weeks might have even been a month because there have  been no Jews only when you had a few picked up or so and they hit again to form a transport now the I was there I worked there there was  a men who had two two or three children he worked for the Canton House you know for the  hospital because it was and his children were

young little children and he had no wife I don't  know where the wife was if she was already taken away whatever happened I really don't know  but I cleaned the apartment I took care of the children till the day when they formed  the transport again and this next transport in that transport you know they wanted to empty  this there were not many I don't know how many 25 Maybe or 30. it wasn't much and  we were brought to tourists instead how are you taking the duration Style we went by train and

I almost if I recollect it  was not cattle cars I think it was a regular train where did where did the train stop  it was it went to tourism start we stopped somewhere near a barracks and  we went through we had we were examined but the few things which we had you remember  I said that I had a little release with me as a matter of fact I would  like to go back one thing that Mrs camplayer was called at one time to be  interrogated because why she was hiding me or so and she said I had no idea 

that she was Jewish we knew her matters some months ago and she happened  to be with us on the in the bunker I I did not hide her or something like  this indeed nothing happened to them thank God I mean because she just said  I I don't really know her you know it's so anyway uh we went through the cast  through the SS and we were brought into Theresa instead there was a very very lovely  young man his last name I only know his who was in mixed from a mixed marriage and  I think his Gentile mothe

r passed away or something he was also in their transport  and we became very very good friends and um so we were brought into a  place maybe the 25 or 30 people the upper part of the house you know the the  duck and there we stayed on one side the men and on the other side to women on mattresses and  that was our first introduction to tourism stud what was it like coming out of the Darkness basically of Berlin  and of being in hiding and emerging in this densely populated place I would want  to

say that I had a form of relief when I was in hiding it was always I I  had to take care of myself it was only I when we were together in the concentration  camp it wasn't I anymore it was we you did what the others did you had no  identity your identity was gone you did when the others went to get  some food you took your little bowl and you got the food when it was said to  you now you do this or you do this you did this I did not hate to fend for myself anymore it was a relief somehow we did

not know what was in store for us that much  and you know we did not know what tourism stat was when we were there we were told what the  reasons that was that it was a town at one time going back to to Maria Theresa's time  that this that the military who were there were all taken out and the first transport to  tourism that we had checked Jews it was called Commando One Transport one from  Prague and two and I think three I also met a cousin a second cousin  of mine intelligence that was his

wife who were in one of those akka one  or two transports from Prague he was anyway because he had immigrated to  Joe Slovakia and married a Czech woman and we all were then you should see people  working you know that there were Jews who were the organizers more or less inside of Tourism stud  you saw SS and you saw them going and being there and I met some people that I knew before and Mr Cohn I knew him from Cultura Bond actually  he was it's a good minder his wife was at the cultural burden

and he was very influential  in helping my brother to learn a trade for that one he was in the administration of the  internal administered Jewish administration of Tourism stud because there is instead had  more or less inside a Jewish Administration and he said to me I wanted to go and work at  a little place that they have here they saw dresses for the combatant tour for the  SS and their wives and their employees which I did so I wish we were all taken  into work uh Commandos of the various

kinds I worked at this little place and I  saw some women coming into us to we took measurements and we they brought us  fabrics and we could sew dresses for them and they must have been four or five girls  and the woman who was in charge she cut she was a dressmaker they were all checks or  check it check people I was the only German and we lived in these barracks we also had  other duties because we did not work like we work maybe eight hours and we  also had to clean the barracks or cleaned t

here was an old age you know there  were old people who lived in rooms and we had to clean those and so everybody had  certain obligations that we were we had to do this I mean it was set when you come from there at  five o'clock you work still till eight or whatever in the meantime we we had to get some food  you know the the kitchens used to wear big kitchens that cooked in huge kettles Army  kettles the food and if we were not able to eat our food or get our food at a certain  time to they we

re places where the head you know we've stood in  long lines and we had one pot and they gave us maybe two  potatoes and some gravy on top if you could not eat it we ate it in the  evening there were a little places in each of those Barracks where they had a stove that all  people made those stuff and heated it up for us extra potatoes were mostly  rotten blue or so Frozen it was then this 44 45 was that very cold winter  but before that already much before this started iglima production it's a

glimmer  production glimmer is Mica and there were Banks outside of Tourism stud  and there were hundreds of women that were taken into this production that we worked and  we worked in two shifts in this Mr Cohen said to me I want you to go to the glimmer that is  much better than if you work there and I said oh I like it so very much I like to work here it  is so nice she said you go to the to work in the glimmer and the Jewish administration had a saying  in I mean that hundreds and hundreds o

f women so we worked in two shifts we worked a day shift  and a night shift and we started very early but we had to go outside of the camp we marched out  I mean we walked out we had a little bit of a chapusca it was called in the past passing thing  and we had to pass through a jandarms a house you know that meant us and looked at our and then  we went out for this thing so we were sitting in Long rows of tables there's one woman next to  the other we had the Box in front of us that had compart

ments a large compartments and a few small  compartments the blocks were that may be in size and the knife that we split the mica was like a  long knife pointed thin into split that Mica off and as big as you get your pieces of mica  you put them in the various compartments the biggest compartment was for the larger  pieces and then smaller smaller smaller next to me said a woman who  was very nice an elderly lady her name was Eva weissmann and she was the  most unhindy person in the whole world

she had two left hands and I did split Mica  for myself and helped Miss Wiseman also she was from Berlin she  was from the udashinga mind okay we mean the work today shift was a  night shift one morning I must have overslept and when I walked out for my day shift I  was late and see past pass was taken off for me when I went through the controls and  I came in and I sat down and I worked and a couple of hours later I was called into  the office and there was the SS sitting and he laced it into

me like you were late  and you were in the next transport and you were this and how dare you end that went on and  on and on I was devastated shaking in my boots and the end he had a book in front of him he said  to me if you wouldn't be such a good glimmer in me you would we would do differently with you and Lord behold that saved me that I was  a very good glitter we're going to pause and change tapes now this is tape number six  interview with Margot friedlander May 19 1998. did you know who

was the  commandant of traditionstadt I am not quite sure I think his name was if I recall and we saw some of  the SS always on horseback because when we walked to the glimmer  Barracks they were also fields and Jews worked in the fields  interesting you know this was a Countryside in the middle there were  Hills and you saw occasionally zss riding on horses on the hills in  distances observing what the people did you know there were many activities that were done  in today's instead everything

was done by um by human beings if it was that you were buried people  and you took them out of the camp it was on oh wagons that were flat big wagons and they had they  were pushed from the back and pulled in the front anything also food brought to the various  places where they dispensed with them we're brought in big kettles to the various  places because you only had a few kitchens so they put them in big kettles the food  and those men push those cards with a big barrels of the soup or so we

got it  was a black coffee in the morning which was not coffee of course it  was made from some corn or something main meal was at lunch time this was like I  said it put a couple of potatoes with some gravy is the highlight of of the feeding thing  was called it was Charles rocket don't forget which was a Czech name for a piece  of oh it was almost it was almost like a cake East Dough made out of a yeast  dough and you got a A little bit of it was like a chocolate sauce over it which  was made

out of coffee as that's meaning also something you know with a little bit of sugar  in that was that was a highlight if we had that maybe every two or three months I mean I had it  a few times in the year while I was there it was great we did get a few things every few days  we got a few ounces in a little bag of sugar a little package of imagining and twice or  three times a week a little piece of bread in the Barrack what were the sanitary conditions like terrible full of once and you know te

rrible because we live we  slept on storm mattresses it was two and three wooden beds three flew aside we had most of the  women had two the men had up to four Banks bunk beds high was all wood it was full of animals full  full we had we had nothing the bed the mattress too lazy and stuff but don't forget check juice  came and things were not taken away in tourism started so many people had also a little bit of  a sheet or a pillowcase or a blanket or in duvet because Teresa instead was like tha

t but the  reasons that was it was like a you don't know what to call to raise in church you can have many  names for tourism stud but it wears in in and out and in and out people came and they were there for  a couple of months and then they were sent away what did you know about their ultimate destination I did not know till September October of 1944. those were  they practically emptied tourism stud they sent they had transports  practically every day of juice and they were put into Kettle ca

rs and  the cars stopped in front of one of C barracks and there was a an hoof you went from hoof  from them dick in the middle of the of the big parrot and the train was standing  outside they went into the train and they were taken away my cousin the one I met came his wife and aunt and  uncle my mother's cousin we say Aunt across they came in the meantime that came transports from  Holland from westerborg and so also to Teresa they were then maybe they were there months I don't  even know int

o the transport into the transport and we worked at the glimmer and also women who  worked at sublima may be a few who were not good glimmers but I would not know as far as I know  everyone who worked at the glimmer was protected Terrace instead after the transports of  September October where A and A totenstadt it was like dead there were so few peoples left unbelievable it was very  quiet life went on we worked nothing had changed as far as we are concerned but it was horrendous you really fel

t a deep  depression of being suddenly more or less alone your friends had gone your  acquaintances French no acquaintances let's go back just a little bit if I may in time it's important to learn your Recollections of the  visits of the Red Cross in July 44. what happened you see tourism that was so to speak a show  camp because he brought people from who were in Berlin or in other cities or in Czechoslovakia  well-known people so they wanted to show off how good they were and they let the Red

Cross the  International Red Cross come into tourism start to show them about they built a children's  Pavilion I remember it was a glass house and they painted certain wounds in a senior  resident or old age home or nursing home and they built painted some corridors NCS  the Red Cross came and you saw the SS going with them through the streets showing  them whatever they wanted to show them this nice and they nicely taken care of  here isn't everything very nice and clean and Rabbi Beck that we

ll-known Rabbi  from Berlin was in tourism stud and he was allowed to follow when they left needless to say that this  little Pavilion for the children was never used never used by children it was used on  that day when they showed it to them and naturally the wombs deteriorated again but  this was maybe one room and one Corridor that they showed them and one street they  made it we it was potemkin shoulder that's all I can say but I go out on time after the  transports that they came away I wou

ld think that there may be occasionally  came still some juice from Czechoslovakia who lost the Christian part also to tourism  stuff but this was minimal in December of 44 a transport was put together and it was said  that this transport would go to Switzerland we did not believe in it I must also say that  with this Heinz cone saying Heinz cone was in one of the last transports in October away from  tourism started he was also and many many Jewish people who wear these Administration the self

the Jewish  self-administration where at the end sent away but if I may go back a little  bit on time at one time it must have been it was  before the transport started that we were told that is we will play theater  and you have to you will watch it we will play the drag question open and we were all marched  out to a empty field they were like a wooden stage and unfortunately I don't know his name one of the  very very wonderful actors who played in Berlin um Cultura Bond played and they playe

d  the dry caution open and we were sitting the younger people nice looking  in the front on the grass and lots of them and it was filmed and I think  this film exists I think there was a film taken and shortly after the transport started and  all those actors those wonderful people were all taken away were you aware of the filming  of any other activities and tradition staff I was not but I understand and apparently  also at the time when I was there already I do have one recollection  that we

had a cafe house that they played music and that we went  in there if it was for a show to show that there was again a commission coming or not and  I also understand that there were concerts given I have no recollection of that but vaguely  I have a recollection of that coffee house that I must have been there once or  so I do not recollect why of Elvis taken to it or said I should go  for filming reasons or not possibly what happened in the barracks in the evening you see me don't even know wh

at light we had but I lived for  a long time in one of the barracks that looked out 2z route that was a regular street that  went to park and naturally there were always gender arms in certain distances that meant those  streets to watch because there is instead as I said is was a city a little town that bordered  had streets so they had to watch on this military Barracks were on the streets so they had to  wash those later on I will say because this is wasn't street where the Russians came to 

for Liberation on that street anyhow we had those wounds and on each floor maybe more  because they were big there was a washroom um metal sinks long long metal sinks and running cold water I understand that they had those but in the little  houses which were all around tourism start and they these were individual houses to flew us  up they broke through through to the inside of those houses to have in the center electric you  know the the toilet and in the evening nights when you wanted to go o

ut you went when you  stayed in those houses because I also lived in one of those later on at one time you went  to the inside and you went to the lab trainer and you of course you left your room just  the way you are cold winter or whatever it was and you went to the latrina and  they had not running water they had pumps this water where you took some water for yourself  and you washed yourself in little things or under the pump I do understand that some of the houses  had also those running Wa

ters that were brought in and I also understand that those pumps  were at the very beginning very um had bad that the people got sick from drinking this water  it was only when this akka ions and Waka one and two transports from a park came that the people  cleaned and in pipes and and things were done and also the railroad station was way outside of  treason that I understand and my later husband told me that he worked on those railroad tracks  They put them in so that the railroad later on as

I said went in tutorization it was not at the  beginning there isn't shot at Norway Road station was the name if I recall it  I think that was a station were you ever sick yes I was sick and I went to the doctors I hit I don't know what you call my this glance well to the inside and we had nothing  so they pressed them out by you know with some kind of a thing very coldly and very oh it hurt  terribly and you just Teddy it a metal thing in pain in front of you and when he pressed this  out you k

now to do the past to open it so the past comes out you just spit it out and you  rinse your mouth was water and that was that was very painful and since we had so very little  food and we are so undernourished these things were very often came boils and these infections  okay I will say later I also was ill and I had they were worried that I had Encephalitis and I  was in the hospital in 40 five already in a state for one months approximately in a station  that was isolated yes an isolation sta

tion um we had no medication they just  checked us temperature us and so if I ever had it or whatever it was  I don't know that was in 45 already did you undergo any physical changes well if I may say we our my  period had stopped totally where I had lots of trouble for many years later they say they said later that they put something  into the food but I don't know if it was so we're babies born in Persian staff I have no recollection of it I understand  yes I know also which I heard much later

that my cousin who came from Prague with his  Czech wife had borne a child interesting stud that died it was not at the time when I  was there it must have been much before do you recall any religious observance yes we tried to know  when Russia were and I also understand that there were developers that they did because they  were prominent people you know from Berlin and so who were interested and some survived and they  some of them lived husband and wife together and I understand that they t

ried to do a little  bit I tried when we when I knew that there was a holiday I must say that I even tried not to  eat on Yom Kippur I cannot tell today anymore if it was the day or not it probably was because  there were a lot of Jewish people who go back went by the Sun or so and knew when this was my only  year you know in 44. that I was once interns in shot on Russia and young people it was not hard  to to fast because we had nothing to eat anyway and as far as Shabbat is concerned now there

was  nothing we could we had no candles or anything dependency prayers did people say prayers I would think so I would sing yes  I cannot tell you how many did I would think that we were very much to our own if  a very private you did not form deep friendships UVM much to involved in Daily  surviving we worked so many hours first you know glimmer and cleaning and  after that I mean we had then later on you know in the beginning don't even know when it must have been in Germany  February March m

aybe much maybe February the transport started to come people who were on  the marches from Auschwitz and bearing belts and who were and we had people Marching In to  tourism stock by foot all in the pajamas and we had to cause Kettle costs coming into tourism  start with people in the opens the course and very few had survived they fell out I was able I  worked at 10 that time as a nurse assistant here to help a nurse's helper we took the these  Trends but we we greeted those transports I was a

ble to carry men on my arm the legs  were that heavy the bodies were nothing we were on a certain plateau where the marches  came in and at one time somebody pulled my arm and he said malgot malgut Don't You  Know Me Anymore I am Arnold kischberg and Arnold cashback was from  culture bond is a singer he said I don't know I didn't  know him shaven pajamas don't you have a little piece of bread  I said Arnold chin I have nothing but I will get something so I went around to saw  if I could get some

bread for him and by the time I came with a little piece of bread they had  them in you know groups and marched them from the plateau to houses to bring them into shelters and  Arnold had gone I could never give him the bread we took them into shelters into the barracks  and we wanted to bring them into these rooms where we had the sinks they wouldn't go they  screamed because they thought it were showers so we washed them by hand I mean with little  pails and we put them on straw mattresses an

d I will never forget one evening I mean probably  one of the first evenings we walked from person to person and they cried so bitterly helped  me help me they were in pain they were and you know we also did something we gave them  something to eat we gave them sugar a little bit and margarine what we had and they could not  take that the stomach could not take that they got the worst diarrhea we had no idea what to  do with these people still tourism stud was we had not much to eat but we it wa

s a  normal life we were not on a on a March so they were so sick one  after another top of the build quite a sick ride and cried I  don't know how many died still we couldn't do anything we had no medicines we just could comfort him so Days Later  Arnold kirchberg found me but I must go back a little bit on time in time because the end  of January of the very first days of February a transport came back to Terrace instead  of approximately 200 men and some women and this young fellow that I men

tioned that  I was in my transport schnepsi in boynell was taken away from tourism stud at one  time and it was said that he comes to a camp near Berlin it is in Eichmann project and that they built have to build something  so when this transport came back I went to the barracks where these people were  housed and I looked for snaps in Brunel and I couldn't find him and I was  told that he was did not survive but days later I met in the Barrack my house my  later husband he was came back in that

transport and I knew him from culturubunt because when  I was on the cultural burned Adolf friedlander was some culturubunt he was a business manager  fee and he was more or less my boss we were not friends but we knew each other very well and the  whole group of people you know of the cultural one peshner and friction Miller and Arnold kirschberg  until the lint and Schwartz the daily uh it's a conductor and we had that people did talked about  it so we were very happy to see each other and it

was the beginning seven interview with Margaret  friedlander May 19 1998. I met Adolf and we were happy to have so  many Mutual things if you could talk about it it must have been February of 1945.  and at that around that time these transports started to come in and but  I had a support of Adolf Adolf was then had already a job got a job in the kitchen  to cook and he cook could help me very much and also our Arnold killsberg hansman NASA who  came back at one time later on slowly because the

Thames They Were Somehow were put on March they  were liberated they moved on and they came back to teresinstadt in order to see whom they could  find of their families these were people who were interested at one time were on the transports  to Auschwitz and then later on came back um I recall very very vividly one night one  morning Adolf went to the kitchen to prepare as a dough for the wonderful and this was  a yeast Stone and he stole a piece of dough and brought it to my place where I live

d and  put it into a little bowl onto the little table and when I woke up in the morning that yeast  though had risen and was all over my table and I needed it together and I brought it to one  of the women who meant those warming kitchens and asked her to bake little breads white breads  and those we brought to our friends who had by that time already typhoid it were over very  sick I'm not kelsberg hansman and some others um in that period don't know exactly but after  probably or shortly with

in that period I took sick and I was taken to the hospital they  had thought that I might have encephalitis and we were in isolation but Adolf managed very  often to visit me but that was not visiting coming in I went to the toilet and looked  out of the window and it was not too far off the ground and he was standing downstairs  and we could talk and also that I looked out of a window and we waved to each other but  I did come out all right I hope and nothing much happened we could not have tre

atments  but we were taking temperature and we were set to walk you know if we walk straight  or move over or holding hands you know if there were quite a number of girls and one I  don't remember their names but one made a poem for me or wrote a letter which I have and one  made a little animal for me that I still have and it was very we were very good camera it's  really wonderful together but when I came out of uh that it was already must have been March and  it was shortly before Liberation

really we had a feeling of it would not go very long  it somehow we had no clue but it was it you didn't sing it not much could happen or  we we had hopes we had hopes Adolf was sent away again once more he didn't want to go and This Ss  man who was in charge of it said you don't have to work you will be the four men just come with us  you know already the whole thing so Pierce they did go out they were driven out it was in turigan  in Bayern in bavarium and they were supposed to build some barr

acks and when they opened the  train with all the parts that they took along they realized that they had no hammers and the  SS which were already old men the last you know people that they didn't take young ones anymore  said oh we go to the farmers and we will get a hammer or something and the farmer said  we have no hammers because nobody wanted to give anything away what they had left over  and so they made something out of wood and they made one Barrack head of told me and crooked  and all

and put all the material into that Barrack and closed it up and  went back by the same train to theres instead which was a whole thing  was a week I would like to say one thing probably it is known the camp where it  of Warsaw came that the 200 men wear they brought them back to tourism start which took  which actually should have taken about eight hours it took many days and they had nothing to eat  and they were going crisscross Germany because everything was bombed by that time it was January

  February the Russians came from one side and the Americans from the other it was horrendously stood  in front of Berlin in their cattle cars and um it was very bad anyway they did come back  and Adolf came back the week after he left and then one day I was in my Barrack  and I looked out of the window a little bit standing back and I saw a  big car moving along that street open car Cabriolet with a big flag over the  hood draped and Luggage in the back and I sit this must be the Red Cross and

it was the Red Cross and deliberated  that was The Liberation they came a few weeks before or maybe a month before they  were there and we are taken through the camp but set at that time we do not want to be shown by CSS  anymore we want to be shown around by Rabbi Beck and Rabbi Beck took them around teresion and  showed them everything that they had not seen before namely the streets the rooms that were not  painted that the Pavilion for the children was totally empty never used because he sai

d why are  there no scratches on the wall when children play here you have marks or fingers and and dirt  on the walls why wasn't it back showed them around and when they because they had heard  all about from the transport that went in December to Switzerland the then they told  them what really is what's going on in tourism and then they came rubber back showed them around  a little while later maybe a week or late so later the SS wanted to disappear and run away they had  flatbed trucks and o

nto these flatbread trucks they built like circus houses and pushed all that  happened good and all their belongings into it and left tourism starts but it didn't take them very  long to leave tourism stud and come back again because all the streets from the East the Russians  came in The Westerns they had no way where to go so they came back these trucks came  back to tourism start with CSS and at one time on NASA I would  think that they fled by foot and that's when the International Red Claus

e  came there were no more Nazis in the camp and the great course put the flag up to the  command and towards that big flag and that was a few days before as the official Liberation before  the 8th of May it might have been the fifths what did the Red Cross find a tremendous illness of typhoid from all the transports and the  people who came from the marches to tell his instructor brought  a horrendous illness to us and the lies and that we  had caught up the dirt see latrines so definitely see

so smell  the devastation the the no foodsy total children's and when the Russians came the Russians  did not first come into tourism stuff but brought their officers to the  commandant to a Tuesday Records who were the one who were liberating  us really a few days before and then that was a day we were standing you know the when you walked when you  went to walk outside to work in work groups outside of traditionship  they were do I mean big well you could walk out you know it they  closed the

doors but you could open them and we started these stores and  the Russians came in their trucks a raggedy Army not too had the same uniform or  no uniforms or Caps or whatever on they were standing on these trucks passing  there Asian stats waving to us it was such a jubilation it was Unreal I was  standing with Adolf he was holding my hand it was horrendous we were also overcome  we did not know what to say it was we were already liberated for a few  days but I think the realization when these

troops came and waved and they had very  little they threw us some cigarettes or maybe a little bit of chocolate whoever caught it yeah  I cannot I don't know if I ever ever forget the what went on in in us that it was finally over do you know also in in the back of our  mind I think already was at that time we are standing here what happened to  my mother to my brother to my father I'm sure I'm quite positive that at this moment that I was already thinking I survived what happened to  them bec

ause we didn't know we did not know of Auschwitz that much except for the people who were on the transport and told us  you know who came in in the pajamas we didn't think that much could have the feeling between a four  year of being liberated and see Devastation which was going on until his instead  of the people who died partly in our arms foreign cattle cars that we opened and we people fell out it was not a Pity picture and I also think that she really  realization came much much later don'

t know the what's a human being how strong how strong a human is  and the survival of want of survival and when you have survived what your reaction is me yes he not very hard to describe I don't know I don't know the Survivor syndrome for me why didn't I  go with my mother will always be with me when you're young you want to  live when you survived you suffer where was medical assistance and by whom was  that medical assistance provided to you selection sport doctors and nurses in they took all

the  mattresses of straw and threw them out of the houses and into the thing and burnt  everything they worked day and night they worked unbelievably hard they asked of  us also to work and we worked very hard but it was nothing they brought Germans in from the  whole area people that they had called and they they put the hacking cords in the back of their  clothes whatever they wore and they had to scrap the streets and they had to push those cards  that Jewish people you know from the kitchen

s they allowed us really to do anything with  them but I must truthfully say I do not and know any incident really that except  maybe we gave them a push of some kind yeah should I say that maybe Jews are not  have not that frame of mind that they can an iPhone I tooth photos you know we  they did everything for they worked now what we did they cleaned the  barracks they cleaned everything they bought a lot of food in whatever they could  get the Russians from the areas they brought in we got th

ey bought a lot of rice in Adolf hit  as a child typhoid and he was one of them who had did not have to be afraid to go into  the barracks to bring food into the typhoid Barracks I must say that I was not afraid to  I remember that there was some white something and I hung it up onto my door next to my regular  clothes and then I put it on again we were not thinking too deeply what would happen to us  if he would take sick or so we wanted to help what is your first recollection of sleeping in a

bed with sheets and of having your privacy that  took a long time because I we got engaged Adolf and I on the 19th of May in 1945 I remember  very clearly that we were sitting on a bench in Z then free part for us which was you  know outside a little outside of Tourism stud and Adolf gave me this ring which he wore that  was his father's ring into intersian start and then we'll call the detail take wedding bands  away so Adolf wore that wedding band of his father and he put it on my finger I've 

never taken it off ever since that is his father's thing how many years his parents I think that one can still see  a little bit something inside got married well edoth was born in 1910 his sister  was I think born in 1906 his parents must have been born in the early 19th four  or something that's how worthless thing is and how long has that ring been on your  finger how many years now on my fingers we were married 52 and a half years and Adolf  passed away in December it will this year be on t

he 26th of June 53 years we got married  and to raise your start in a Jewish ceremony on the 26th paragraphs the last Rabbi that was  still in tourism stud before he left the next day and four friends of adolfs health  citalis over us one corner each and we got our ketuba in Hebrew which I have and that was Teresa instructor we left uh probably on the 12th of July may I ask you do you recall the names of the  four friends I recall three one was Gerhard Adler one was robot rocks who was half Jewi

sh and  was with Adolf from the first day on on the transport to tourism stud till the last day since  he was half Jewish he went back to Berlin to see if his Jewish mother and sister and the gentle  father who was taken to Auschwitz but survived would be there the one the third one was a  mystery precious who was later on I think Consul German console was an elderly man he survived  intelligent I don't know who was a force was we were all through the  years in touch with robot Vox and saw him m

any many times unfortunately he  passed away he was my age he was very young he was very good to Adolf very often  working with him said Adolf you do once partnership you know this is that thing where you  keep up the sand you do one less and I do one more wonderful man so where did you go um after we you know there is instead was slowly  empty it's the first ones who left the reason start there were buses sent from the Danish from  Denmark and the Jewish people from Denmark who all survived int

erviews that were taken home to  Denmark the second probably were from Holland and slowly people the very first who really left  by foot where they check you choose they walked out the minute after delivery they walked with  with some Russian soldiers with the thing they worked home to park and then the Deans and then  the Dutch and slowly they organized Terriers instructed people who wanted to immigrate we  they we bet told that we will go to Germany to camps that we can wait till they will hel

p us to  immigrate to various countries where we want to go and one day we a big transport Kettle cars but  very comfortable was built staffed and we went in with mattresses and a little stove and with us  came a young man caught Cohen who was it from Czechoslovakia came back after and tremendous  ordeal he was one of the transports September October out to Auschwitz it survived four boys  survived and came back one was Louis Louis V four or six while dremelon and I don't know all the  names and

we got very friendly internships that was called Kohan and he came with us in that  car and we went to Pilsen by train via Park we were picked up by in pills  and by a trend okay um military automobiles and we were sitting on those  Automobiles and we were wanted they wanted to take us to a DP camp now this pills need all this is  very hilly and the drivers were not very much used to driving Hills and we were the second bus and  the first bus crashed and fell down the embankment and our it was

not bus um how do you say these  big military transport yeah with planks over it could Cohen was lying on the plank  and was thrown down and our driver went up to up the hill a little  bit in order not to hit the bus and is thrown down and the ambulances came and  but code corn was not at all injured but he was very bloody from the ones who were injured and  was besid in that transport were Underground we're going to take a break  and resume in a minute yeah yeah this is tape number eight interv

iew  with Marco friedlander May 19 1998. please continue um we arrived we that night we did were not  taken to Windsor that DP camp but uh slept in a Transformer station uh because it was very  late but the next morning we were taken to Windsor and we're very upset because winter was behind  barbed wire and it was horrendous to be free and not free behind barbed wire but there were some  people Louis Louis and so on who had were very influential to talk to authorities and I would  think probably

after two or three days we were taken out of Vincent Adolf still had his birthday  in Windsor where Louis made him a lovely poem and that was that first birthday in Freedom and we  came to degendorf and that was a where Barracks from offices Barracks at one time we were very  well housed since we were married we had a Jewish ceremony only in July I mean before we could stay  together we were housed in a very nice little room and next to the administration offices  on the practically ground floo

r and Adolf involved himself very very practically  right away to do things for the foreign and so did I at later stage the we are then free we could go out we could walk out we started  to make friends in degendorf young people came from different camps people came and  people left to look for family members Germany was in a turmoil because everybody  was somehow on the move after the war you know many things where cities destroyed and so  on and when the people slowly came out of the various c

amps not that they necessarily  if they were not brought to degendorf but two camps in Reagan store or somewhere  they still came to look whom the kid found do you recall any Zionist activities in  the camp no I don't did you donate off talk about going to Palestine no since his  sister Adolf hit a sister she immigrated to America it's a um and lived in America we  already had a telegram from her interism stud that came through the administration that she  found him to be alive through a newspap

er that here in America newspaper the German stats I  don't want Herald printed names every single day of people that survived and ilza found his  name and she got a telegram to him that she's told him I'm happy you are married I am married  to my name is so and so and please try to get in touch with me so there was no question for us of  course to come to America since he had his sister I only had one aunt my mother's sister who  later when I found out survived in Brazil but I had no intention

altogether I would  have I don't think that I would have gone if I would have not married enough I'm not  even sure if I would have gone to Brazil I might have come to America I had second  cousins here that we wear clothes from before how long did you stay in dagendorf we stayed all  together one year from July to July we both were busy with we won one month we were outside  we were invited by some people we met the cic offices Americans who were very very good  to us took us into ice that that

's where he was stationed he was German water was his  name Jurgen verta his father was a lawyer in Berlin in the tailman process process and  had also was incarcerated had then was taken out and the family Jurgen visma and his  brother flat came to America partly one was left in England so far as I came out to  and he was a worked in istead s from the cic hmm how did you travel to the United States  we uh where at one time called to Munich to come to the consulates when they opened  again in 46

slowly consulates opened people there asked where would they like to go it was  cut cataloged and so on and so forth and we said we want to go to America so when the consulate  opened again and there were military doctors in Munich they examined us we also went through some  interviews and we're put on the lists at one time in degendorf we went back to deckendorf and one  time in degendorf Cohen came who was also working for the uh DPS uh came and said Margaret Adolf  there is a transport a shi

p going to America and their story room I registered you let's quickly  pack and let's go and we were on that Marine perch to America and arrived here we think it  was the 28th or the 26th of July in 1946. what was resettlement and Readjustment in the  United States like in a way easy because Adolf hit his sister here who was comfortably married  Adolf had a lot of friends here from former years fraternity Brothers his cousin his very dearest  cousin Fred Greenwood picked us up the same he was a

t the pier two but only ilza could see  us we were taken to a hotel Fred picked us up took us to Elsa on an open car it was we started  to we got in a room very quickly we started to work very very soon I started to work as a dress  alteration hand in the Bronx about 10 days after we came out of the day after in a printing plan  then he got another job and two years after we were here I would like to have Adolf to make  his Doctorate here but he said no because he had the job already he found it

Susie a little  little ad in the paper the 92nd Street Y and Adolf started in 1948 late 1948 saying October  it's a 92nd Street y as an assistant bookkeeper and Adolf was a controller later on not very  long later and Associate executive director in charge of administration for 28 years where he  retired from so why when he was 66 21 years ago I worked as a dressmaker for 20  years where alteration head and fitter in the dress business  and then became a travel agent do you recall the day that 

Israel became a state yes it was horrific it was very for all of  us even not living in in Israel or not being affiliated with anything but had a very  deep feeling for after all what happened that this would hopefully be the answer to all  of our prayers to have a state of Our Own what was your reaction to this country  and what it did and didn't do for the Jews we integrated into America Society into  American Life fairly easily since Adolf worked in an American surrounding I must say that  w

e did have most of our friends we are refugees but through the why we were very very friendly  with many many people they were lovely parties and occasion that we invited each other so at that  time I would say we were friends unfortunately these things break up and the friends you have  from past years are the friends so in a way you still live a little bit in your own ghetto  somehow we had we have still friends from way back of adolf's if you use a fraternity that I  am friend very very close

to up to these days do you receive restitution in the German  government yes I did because I worked in Germany to as a Apprentice so I have a German  Social Security I have what they call byzantites Chardon so did Adolf Adolf hit also  Social Security and Adolf since he was at the Jewish institution in Berlin  in Juda sugar mind he has a pension how much do you receive now it might be it depends on the Dollar on  the house of dollars but uh approximately three thousand dollars a month what was

your reaction to the Eichmann trial too few of it caught and it took long and amazing  that they were able to live to get out and live a  normal life for so many years and that that how was that possible outraged not happy did your experiences during  the Holocaust affect your faith no I was definitely always sure that I am Jewish  that I am very deep down Jewish and that I if I ever survive will ever be always be Jewish I  lived in a total Gentile Society for this year and a quarter where many

people did not know that  I was Jewish some did of course but some did not I had to hide it that I am but inside Norway I was too deeply and also with whatever happened  I would have could have never left my face never do you dream about the Holocaust yes unfortunately  yes um in not as much of the Holocaust as what happened to my parents how did they die what  happened to them did she suffer my father you just missed me I just miss me all the time may I ask you what are those dreams they are no

t even dreams I would  probably think that I am maybe half awake and thinking I don't know if there are dreams for many years here in this country I was  quite ill I hit nervous condition you know and it's very very hard to say because this  is something you without even knowing you you have a certain you feel bad that you  survived and and then you know that you wanted it but you feel you feel privileged but you feel  devastated because I cannot understand why did I leave my mother why didn't I

go with her  maybe I should have gone with her at that time do you know he if you're young a force  tells you you want to live you want to live I don't know I don't know today it's difficult  I I don't know I cannot I've never talked to a psychiatrist about it so I have to work that out  by myself somehow but since I could always talk to my husband and he had the same experience  because he lost his mother in Auschwitz we understood without talking I had an ear I had  to hold you know now I don

't which is very hard for me in closing may I ask you to describe  what it is you're wearing around your neck is my mother 's picture a picture of my father my mother my  brother and I when we were very young and this is my mother a picture inside I  have a picture of Adolf and I have a little bit of hair tiny little things when he was a  baby because this this locket his sister had and she gave it to him and there was a  baby picture in from him and his hair is there anything else that you woul

d  like to say before we close the interview only that I miss my husband very very much he was  everything to me he was 11 and a half years older and that it was a wonderful marriage and if he was he was my strong you know he gave me the strengths  all the way he said no I have to do what I can to live the way he would have  wanted me to go on with my life thank you very much for giving us  the opportunity of hearing your story it's a single Marco would you please introduce the gentleman  sittin

g next to you Henry is a brother of God's love and the Sun of Mr ocular Mr Adler was very  influential in Berlin in seeing to that Adolf comes to tourism stud I did not know Henry  neither did I know Mr Orlando Gerhart till after the transport came back from volkov  with Adolf and gahart and when we got married Henry spaza was our witness he held  the Tallis as of the hopper over us he was a dear friend of my husband and  it is if Henry is Earth part of us of my of hard times of Good Times later

on shared in  degendorf even so I did not know him very very much he was so much younger than I am and  I was married and he was busy young people and I was with a married people but I am most touched and grateful to have found him and  most said that I don't was not able to have gerhat find him a life to hug him  into sing say thank you to him foreign and told me that you entered or  pre-interviewed somebody by the name of Margaret what was your maiden name then time  I had no idea who you wer

e talking about but you remember the moment you said friedlander  I said Bobby Freightliner it's a relationship that certainly hasn't been intimate over the last  52 years but prior to that because we have such a common past and so many different ways there  was a distinct relationship and I think all of us who are survivors don't have many people left  in life neither family enough all-time friends so that this is an absolute miracle and as I said to  you on the phone thank you for being Matchm

aker yeah it was wonderful to spend time with  Margaret uh like two days no yesterday uh it was quite heart-wrenching at times it was  exciting at times it was a draining experience but overall it was wonderful and we're going to  continue it would you please explain the context in which I know you you interviewed me last year  for the similar for the show of foundation filming somehow remember my name and the fact  that I came from the same city that Margaret and her husband Eddie came from  an

d that's how you made the connection what religious occasion happened to you in terration  step I was Bar Mitzvah didn't always instead I was deported when I was 12 and a half which  meant six months before normal by mitzvah uh ceremonies it was a an illegal affair it was  conducted in the crawl space of the barracks where we we the young male inmates lived I had a Sunday  school teacher who was originally from Holland who taught me whatever was necessary to learn for  the Fair I remember his na

me it was Thunder Wilde I have no idea where he came  from nor do I know where he went and of course there were no parents there was no brother there there was no family  there there were some of my fellow inmates who participated and under the circumstances  I too got my today I am a fountain pen kind of present except in my case was three pieces of  cute sugar and a cupcake which probably meant degrading more than all the fountain pens that  my children received subsequently in this country li

ke to say for clarification that it  was during my pre-interview of Margot that I recalled an interview that I had had over  a year ago and the bar mitzvah of this then young man in tourism stat and you Margot asked me  if the last name of this young man was Adler and I said yes and you asked me then if  he had an older brother named Gerhard which I did not at the time  of your pre-interview recall and this all comes full circle that I went home  and found Mr Adler's phone number and called him

introduce myself and then asked him the question  whether he had an older brother named Gerhard may I interject for a moment gerhardt became  Gerald in this country Hans became Henry in this country and this was one of the  reasons we lost touch with one another touch with so many people and we also moved them  into this circle again that we for instance at Adolf had Eddie had as I mentioned before his  old friends fraternity brothers and my family extended family my cousins that we saw of a  lo

t who one of my cousins also married a girl that I knew before and so on so that is why  we lost unfortunately touch oh he definitely there is a beauty for me personally and  I hope for you too at uh being reunited through this project and I would like to thank  you both for your interviews and I wish you both health and happiness as you hopefully get to  know each other a little bit better thank you this is my grandfather Wilhelm gross  the father of my mother and he was on vacation probably so

mewhere  it was taken when it was taken this is Rife Band Time and Margot bendheim  my brother and myself taken in the studio he must have been five years old four  or five and I was four years older this is my father my mother my brother  and myself my father our tour been time my mother go see Augusta I am in the front  and in front of my mother is my brother wife this is a picture of a class of the gold um it  was a hamburger where my brother is in the picture the picture here Hans Rosenthal

who  survived Berlin in the underground had that picture and sent the book to me  so that I have this picture of my brother this is a picture the last operator they played  at the culturban the Griffin married Countess of Maritza I played the people I'm in the  last row on the left hand side the second and the left row that is me I played say one  of the people that was a last operator played Circle two bond in the theater what was he  had to close in 1939 and the war started that was a star tha

t I was wearing all the time that it's I was also covering up and later  on took out again and wore till the end to start that I was wearing when I went  into hiding I was hiding it I could not of course wear it during my time but somehow  it survived in deep in my pocket somewhere and I kept it all the time till the end I had  this was this star that I had actually and not wearing during my underground time  of course it was one interesting shot that was a pic is a picture of myself  on the lef

t my cousin Ani Goldberg who also did not survive that is my picture that's Margaret already in  the underground wearing a cross in order to build I don't know look like a gentile this is a cross that I was wearing in the previous picture that was given to me by  rental people and that I wore this is illum.com player great chin  and I am on the right we come from a bunker after an air raid and I stayed with  Iron Guard in part of my underground time this is tape number nine interview  with Marga

ret friedlander May 19 1998. when I was taken in April on the 19th  of April I had some money with me and this is a receipt they gave me for my 117  marks German marks and few pennies okay from Auschwitz and we had to help the people  this telegram came to my husband interaction start from his sister after she found in a  newspaper in America that he has survived we got engaged on the 19th of May and  my husband Adolf hit this made for me that's our engagement great what year 1945  shortly after

the liberation we had our Jewish ceremony and tourism start when we got  married on the 26th of June 1945 and this is a Jewish in Hebrew written by Rabbi noi house who  was the last Rabbi interesting strategy meritas who was one of Sephora who held our the  Talis asukupa over us and our marriage Ado and I played it's a vice versa  in degendorf which we performed uh and we think that Henry's  mother is in the foreground and where are you standing I stand in the back  of this Adolf holding me on

the right in the back this is Adolf and I Mal got on the Marine  perch on our crossing over to America this was Adolf in a year ago one of the  last pictures that I took from for him this little animal was made for me by  a girl when we were in the hospital and I have kept it ever since in which  hospital in tourism started in March 1945.