You know, Donald Trump, he's appealing that massive $454 million civil fraud judgment against him he signed and the Trump Organization, the former president has to pay that penalty, of course, to secure a bond to also cover it, which would stop Attorney General Letitia James excuse me, from actually seizing his property. Otherwise, the interest keeps on accruing, adding up at an annual rate of 9% until he's paid it all in full. Now, it's not clear yet how Trump plans on coming up with that huge
amount of money needed for the appeal. According to Forbes, he has an estimated $426 million in cash and liquid assets. Nothing to sneeze at, part of roughly $640 million he holds in personal assets while sort of the money man himself diving in with shark tanks. Judge Kevin O'Leary, otherwise known as Mr. Wonderful and chairman of O'Leary Ventures. Kevin, good to see you back here. Every time I think about this number. It's been astronomical to the average person. Frankly, it is an astronomical
figure. And between the penalty in this case, the 83 million. Jean Carroll, that's more than half a billion dollars. And you got this recent Forbes estimate saying that he hadn't have the cash. So how is she going to come up with that money? Well, even if you're a billionaire, having half a billion liquid is kind of unusual. But by the way, Laura, this bond, like everything else in this case, is unprecedented. I don't recall a bond issuance anywhere near this ever for a personal situation, ever.
I mean, usually these things in real estate end up 20, 30, $40 Million, and you basically get an aggregate of your portfolio and you stake it. The bond fee itself to put the agreement in place is anywhere from 1 to 2 and a half percent. So you're going to lose that right out of the gate. So there's a cost to all of this that you never get recoup. But I think the narrative on this case has it's not even politics anymore. It's more about what what is the risk profile of New York State, given all
these unprecedented situations around development? Because New York is one of the primary markets on Earth, real estate development, it's you think about New York City and particularly in commercial real estate or retail or, you know, obviously condos and everything else. It's one of the number one markets, maybe London, maybe Abu Dhabi, maybe New York. But it's taking on a new risk profile because all of this stuff is unprecedented. The size of the penalties, unprecedented, the law that was use
d to garner it. Before you go on, why are you focusing on the risk profile of a state like New York if the risk profile really is about if somebody has committed this activity or criminal behavior or in this case is a civil matter with the attorney general's office. Isn't the risk profile through the lens of not making those steps to get yourself exposed this liability? Why is the focus on New York itself? Well, New York's the only state that's ever used this law in this way in 75 years to get t
his outcome. And we know the outcome of the case. And then New York's the only state ever to award this unprecedented amount against a a crime that had no victim in the sense that no moneys were lost. That's also new and never been done before. So at that point, though, cab and attorney general does say that there are victims and you and I, we have had conversations about this in the past. She is saying and I know you take issue with this, but she is saying that even though the lenders did make
some money from Mr. Trump, they were the purported victims in this case because they could have gotten more money in this financial penalty, reflects those lost profits. And you think that that is not only unprecedented, which it frankly, in many respects could be, but that that is the real problem in terms of the future of development and for those thinking about New York. Well, you know, that's a valid claim you're making, but maybe they would have made 20, 30, 40, 50 million more. Is the pena
lty commensurate with that loss? A ten X seems a little excessive and undoubtedly will be challenged in the appellate court. But this is not about Donald Trump anymore. It's about New York and risk. And that's the way developers like I'm looking at it. I, I love New York. My kids live in New York. It's the number one market on Earth. But the question is, can I risk it? Can I risk putting 3.6 billion in the ground in New York right now while things are so what? I know I don't want to call this. I
mean, it's so toxic, so volatile, so unknown. All of this stuff is just waking everybody up around the world saying what's going on in New York. And I'd argue to the people in New York, and I've said this many times, maybe you should think about the management you have that's doing this to you because it's not making you the best place to take risk. That's all I'm saying. It's not our politics, not about Trump. It's about risk. I hear you. But you know what? Some people are waking up to this re
alization when you're talking about putting three or 4 billion in the ground in New York, the average person doing business or trying to get a loan in Manhattan or in New York State, more broadly, they're trying to get an interest rate. They can get a 30 year on something, and even then they're pulling together resources. It sounds again, to go back to my original point. For the average person, they're looking at these laws that are on the books through the lens of what the average person would
be held to account for. But let me just go that you struck a chord with me. You talk about the management of things because I can't help. I'm in Washington, D.C. and what I think about the management of things. Kevin I'm thinking a lot about what's happening over on Capitol Hill and I that this deadline coming up on Friday. You know, I watch you all the time on Shark Tank. We all do. And I cannot imagine that you as a businessman would look at something like Congress, for example, what's going o
n there and say a lot of debt vulnerable to shutdowns all the time, happening multiple times with a span of a year. How do you, from the business perspective, evaluate a company like Congress, for example? I mean, you're worried about the risk and investment in New York. What do you make of Congress? Well, Laura, we've all seen this movie before. Dozens of times. The drama, that deadline, they're going to shut the government down. No, they're not. That never happens. And that's why the market do
esn't care in the last minute, there's going to be some bipartisan agreement that kicks the can down the road, 90 days, and we deal with this again in three months. What would be a good ending to this story? Shut the government down for once. Let's get some real drama. But we know you're not going to do that. Congress is so divided. It's so partizan. These are very, very difficult times for anybody that's a lawmaker in Washington. And so this they're not they're not going to go home. It's going
to be the 48 hours. Everybody's going to be awake and laugh out loud, Wolf. Everybody's seen the movie before. It's almost getting boring. Well, I've seen the movie before. And thank you. Do not tell my bosses to keep me up for 48 hours before this all happens. But let me ask you, do you really think, Kevin, that the government ought to shut down just for the drama sake? You obviously think that you mean it would mean that if a bluff was called, maybe people would be incentivized to do more to p
revent it. Well, you know what the problem is? No, I don't want to see the government shutdown. That's very bad for the American brand. It is. You know, and I work in this economy. No, I don't want to do that. But I really like to stop doing this over and over again. We're all tiring of it. We know the outcome, the last minute agreement, but it's not a fixed agreement in the sense that it has longevity. It's a short agreement kicking the can down the road. That's not the way to run the governmen
t, and I think most people would agree with that on a bipartisan basis. I mean, it really, really consumes a lot of time every 90 days, whenever it is. And it's not healthy. It but the world knows the whole world seen the movie. Everybody on Earth knows this movie. And so that's why they don't sell a lot of tickets to it any more. It's not going to be that much drama, I guarantee you. They won't shut down the government, yada, yada, yada, woof, woof, woof. And we'll move on the next day for a 90
day deal. Have you not been paying attention, Kevin, to the way that movies are made now? Everything is a remake. Everything is done again. So they're just following the whole Hollywood thing. Thank you very much, Kevin. I'm going to hold you to that guarantee that you made for this coming Friday. Maybe Congress will listen and say, well, if he said it, it must be true. Kevin O'Leary, nice to see you. Thank you. Take care.
Comments