hi this is episode four of the ripples podcast I'm Greg I am Michael and we are joined today by another guest Joe Joe tanon B do you wanna do you want to introduce yourself everyone Joe sure my name is Joe tanon bomb uh I'm a software engineer at a company called digital extremes we're a gaming company and I am not a gamer so that's an interesting match but uh it's a fun time and um I think probably people know me as the guy that just kind of fools around with larel promps and dust stuff in the
terminal fools around is a is a very generous way of putting the crazy things that you're doing what is it that I called you some kind of mad scientist C monster I think is what came out of your your mouth yeah yeah it's just uh you you are on that so this is how you came on my radar and I'm sure I'd seen your name about the place um before but this is kind of what put you on my radar of like I'm actually following this person was like right after L on Au last year when when Jess had no must hav
e been before that because it was lar on us that that that Jess did the announcement for prompts and it was probably not not very long after probably late July early August that I started seeing these crazy things that you were doing um and the first thing was like was it re Reinventing like the the display of a car or something like that that you did uh no one of the earlier things was I think one of the first I was looking back at this timeline trying to remember what had been going on and I t
hink the first thing was I I recreated like a data table in the terminal so uh you could search it and sort it and and it was sort of an interactive searchable data table in the terminal because I was just trying to get a feel for how prompts worked and you know what the rhythm of it was and and how how it was uh rendering to the terminal and so that felt like something simple enough to do and because of the way that Jess put it together it really ended up being pretty fast once I got the hang o
f it yeah I think the first thing I saw was the uh it was the Norton Commander that that blew my like what on Earth so the first question on that one was is so so I've been around for a minute I'm not you know so young but um people kept when when I was publishing these things to Twitter people kept saying I'm waiting for Norton Commander I'm waiting for Norton commander and I was like ah man I don't know I don't know if I know what that is exactly so I looked up some YouTube videos and I was yo
u know reading some articles and I kind of rep pieced together what I could tell that it was and uh put together a little sort of workable demo of that just as I kept looking for different challenges I was just trying to like up the skill set up the up the techniques with every challenge that was really the goal um and a goal for nothing it was just for fun I wasn't there's no there's no endgame in terms of uh it's not super useful all the time I mean it's fun to build these things but you know
there was I just was having fun I wanted to have fun coding and that's why this came about yeah yeah cool so um yeah the skill set things I mean you you may not ever need to use Norton Commander because we've we've kind of moved past that um as a technology Community I guess but um or it it's possible you know um but you never really know where some of that like some of that skill uh might come out it's also a flashy way I mean I think uh the next one that I saw the next one that kind of resonat
ed a bit with me was putting your rese up as a as a shell application like I mean it's it's a it's a really interesting way to create cut through particularly with technical people like I mean I I'm a hiring manager all the time and if somebody submitted a CV to me like if if someone emailed me and said my CV is at SSH URL um that certainly get my attention yeah I I really was uh I was putting the these things up and I wanted people to play with them but I didn't want them to have to download it
and figure it out terminal by terminal and I just I wanted what was essentially a browser but I didn't really know how to connect those two pieces easily and I'm a huge fan of uh I don't know if you guys know charm CLI charm. sh um they're a go library that do astounding things on the in the terminal and it's an open Source company and they had this thing called uh wish I think it's called wish and uh it's an easy way to set up on your on your server an SSH server so like it can live independen
tly on your server and so I figured out how to set that up and I was like oh I can just have people play with this directly on my server uh resource-wise PHP was getting a little hungry I had to I had to bump up the server size after people got a little uh ansy after going in but um yeah it was a fun way to share It ultimately and it made me made me happy to sort of plug and play that along the way yeah cool yeah so um I know that we've been saying that you're the the the promps the promps guy u
m did you want to go into is that the way that you want to be known or do you want to talk a little bit more about things it's fine for now it's fine for now I really I I've always been sort of like in the terminal I I I used to always create these little utility scripts I was a freelancer for a long time and and all of these terminal scripts that I was creating I had sort of like a central larel zero utility app on my computer and it would help me with workflows or you know connecting client st
uff and it was a useful way for me to get things done very quickly and efficiently and then I started building out sort of a version of prompts for myself because I don't know if you know this this Library called clack it's a it's a node Library built by Nate Moore who I think is the Astro co-creator and um I just wanted that experience I wanted something a little more interactive for the PHP CLI experience and so I started rebuilding that Library exactly in PHP I was like okay let's just as a c
hallenge recreate clack as PHP uh so I started rebuilding clock exactly in PHP like literally verbatim just style-wise to see how far I could push it and and what could could happen in that realm and at the time I had I don't know I had like a hundred followers on Twitter right something I didn't have much it was you know but I was like H let's just share progress along the way let's just just tweet out what I'm doing and see if anybody's into it and so I'm cheeting along and people are like hey
this is cool like just like little things here and there I went on this trip and it was an international trip and I came back and we were all jetlagged and my son didn't know what time it was and so he was waking up at 4 in the morning like over and over thinking it was the start to the day so I wake up at 4 in the morning for like the third day in the row and I look at my phone and it said Taylor outwell has direct messaged you and I was like no I'm just not awake I don't know what's going on
like I just I literally put the phone down I was like I phone's glitching don't know what that is went and like you know dealt with my son and and woke up with him and a couple hours later I looked at my phone again and he had messaged me and he was like Hey man you're this is awesome what you're doing coincidentally we're kind of doing the same thing over here like this we're building out a similar Library do you do you want to like see it for a second and I was like yeah and I'm here with like
I don't you know like a 100 followers I was like how how does he even know what how did he clock this I don't even know how he came about this and so he showed me like prompts as it was then this was like a year ago and my mind was like I was like this is so much better than what I'm building like by a mile and uh so then when it got debuted at LaRon us I was like this is It's just incredible like Jess did an astounding job and um the experiment started because I wanted to PR something into pro
mpts and so I had to see how it worked and Jess has really built like this beautiful little simple machine in there that just allows you to say like okay you have like a class and you have a a renderer class and like they're going to work together and it's just we're going to hide all of the like hard bits cuz I had already built this with the Clack thing but I I didn't do it as well as she did she abstracted it a lot better and so it just I was like okay you can go beyond these little component
s and actually take over the whole thing and just start start rendering full applications like so easily and I just started doing that and it was I don't know I just was in a rut with freelancing I was a freelancer for the time and I wanted to have fun coding that's really what it was and then people seemed to like it and you know were they were sharing it and that's how we got to where we are today but um yeah I don't know it's just about fun I just really wanted to have fun and I was and my wi
fe was like you're doing actually I think Aaron Francis you can't have a podcast without mentioning Aaron Francis at some point but uh not this podcast I think Legally Legally that's how it works I'm pretty sure um she said uh you're just like on the computer after you're on the computer all day and I was like well my fun looks like my work like the both things you know look like the same thing from the outside and so yeah but um I do do other things but I'm happy to be the prompts guy for right
now it's it's okay I'm satisfied in that role that is that is kind of the the Crux of like the Ripple and putting yourself out there is that you don't know like that this experiment that you were doing with with the with the terminal is the thing that's going to make you well known in the community that's going to get you know someone like Taylor to reach out to you that it's going to be the thing that you become known for and unless you throw it out there you you have no idea and and the stuff
that you were doing whilst it was kind of like tangential or running in parallel to the stuff that the laral was building the the stuff that you've done as a result and subsequent to that is far and away like We the stuff that we have in the terminal from prompts is amazing we've got the selects and the type of heads and like all the multi stuff and and and all of that but the the things that you have built are faren away like Way Way Beyond the scope of like I'm like yeah we've got all this th
e stuff that we had before but better and now the stuff that you've done is just like how do we how did we even get to a point where we're doing this stuff in the terminal with PHP yeah I mean that's that's the question I kept wanting to stretch it further and further and I kept wanting to say okay how do we push the throttle and how do we do this uh in a way that we haven't really done it before in terms of you know these things are tedious when you when you're when you're building these things
out you're just like manipulating strings and so like it's not for everybody it's not fun for everybody but it is it it it scratches an itch for me for some reason it does uh it it is fun for me and so yeah I just kept wanting to push the throttle and it was always funny because especially in the latter half of doing all these experiments the the I would set out to say Okay I want to learn how to like say animate something and so that part generally went pretty quickly but it was always somethi
ng else that I was like oh this is hard and I didn't realize this part would be the hard part and so okay we'll focus on that I mean there were times I lost hours and hours of my of my night just trying to figure out how to position a character correctly in the flow of an animation um and then I would start folding in you know like react PHP to try to do some async stuff and you know that that was an interesting experiment and you know we have a good ecosystem and it certainly hits its limitatio
ns and there were some things that I gave up on because I said well maybe this just isn't php's job or maybe I don't have the the brain capacity for this right now but um you know we we've grown a lot we we we're we're in a good place PHP wise yeah it's definitely a a very much an all in like it does a lot more than it did when I started with it 19 years ago 18 years ago like the things that we can do now and the ease with which we can build and then deploy them somewhere is you know was beyond
my expectations back then like I when I started programming I didn't even know what a framework was and it was only sort of two or three maybe five or six actually years into into that Journey that I kind of stumbled upon Symphony and I'm like going to every did you know that there's these things called Frameworks and and that like they do all of this this busy work it's so much easier yeah and then but then I could never like I think this was Symphony late Symphony 2 early Symphony 3 and I just
couldn't get my head around like how to use it and all the yaml and stuff that was in there at the time and and that was around when I found Laro and I was like this all just makes sense like it it works it does this stuff it gets out of the way and this was like precomposed larel this was bundles and and whatever else and it was just mindboggling the amount of stuff that you could do the amount of stuff that you could ship without actually having to do any of it yourself um and like it just Ta
ylor and the team are always pushing that envelope they're always looking for you know the next thing and so it'll be interesting to see what they come up with this year with you know all of the plans to grow the team to bring in you know the the head of engineering which I hear that they've placed that role now so you know that that's happened there's you know the the other people infrastructure people so it's it's interesting to see how the the business itself is growing and then to see you kn
ow who ends up working there because no doubt it's going to be some some familiar names and familiar faces that end up taking some of those early roles and just to see the work that they're going to do to to continue to push the envelope and to continue to to ship incredible things into the hands of you know the the everyday developers as we are I think the crazy thing for me um on the larel I came to Lille via Cake PHP so I I was a lar of all four converts I think that was the first one where t
hey dropped bundles and replaced them with components and um I remember being blown away by q's and Blown Away by the fact that it even had a console solution and I probably would have been happy if the world stopped at L 4 like to me that felt like it was it was enough they couldn't possibly they couldn't possibly put more batteries into this thing but every year like without fail there's just something new I mean they're now getting to the point where they're sort of going back and making thin
gs that did exist even more incredible so prompts is are really great example of that right like I mean the the the wrapping around the symphony console was fine um like but prompt sort of just pushes that one step further but yeah it's just it's amazing to just see how much laral does for you then gets out of the way and then you can just focus on actually do on actually solving like properly hard problems because your brain isn't filled up with how do I deal with meaningless drudgery like I do
n't want to be figuring out how to handle cues and stuff no yeah yeah exactly I think if I remember correctly I came from code igniter I think that was the thing I jumped off of and into laral and it was I remember I was I was working at this CLE company and this guy was like codat is okay but like have you seen laral and I was like I don't know what that is and he goes look at these two things side by side and like so much code stripped out and he's like they're doing the same thing it's just w
ay less on this side and and you can read it you read it like a book and I was like okay yes yeah I get this this makes sense yeah I think I think yeah certainly laravel is to to PHP developers what WordPress was to like the masses you know it kind of made it approachable not that PHP has ever been unapproachable but when you put laravel up as you say against code igniter or against Tony syy probably a little bit more with like the the template stuff that they do now where you can kind of bring
in some level of boiler play like if you just look at them side by side you can do a lot more with a lot less code of your own like you don't have to kind of stitch it all together and and I think outside of the laravel community that that's a little bit understated in just how much further you can get that and we're seeing that you know in the last 6 12 months with kind of all of the people in the JavaScript ecosystem that that have been coming back and looking at PHP and looking at Laro and go
ing oh like we don't have to build or every time and wire it up to some third party Service and bring in all of these components and do all of this stuff for every single app no Lille just gives you the command to you know scaffold out a new application that has authentication and authoriz that like all of that stuff is just there and then you know with the ecosystem around it we've got you know spy obviously is prolific we've got all of this tooling and packages and bits and pieces that fill in
the gaps that are common use cases but are not things that belong necessarily in the context of the framework itself it's just it's a thriving Community it's it's like it has to be a huge amount of pressure for the laravel team to kind of constantly push the envelope like for me you know Greg said it larvo 4 was the P the cono stuff we had it was the p and their ability to kind of see these things that exist that are like good enough for most people and then make them better and then everyone g
oing oh yeah what we had before was garbage like how did we live with that before you know it's just having having that and now there's the expectation I suppose from from our point of view from the community at large like what's the next thing like yeah we're happy with what we got what's the next thing what's the next thing and for them to just constantly deliver year after year for you know 14 years years now whatever it's been that that Laro has been around it's just like surely the train ha
s to stop at some point but I'm enjoying the ride in the meantime I think my my my view on this now I've been so surprised I've been at that point of like yeah this is the new Peak it can't go any further I'm kind of of the opinion now that you ain't seen nothing yet like I think it's just especially as he adds members and and sort of makes this it's already it's already a company but it feels like he's get a Capital C company uh you know I think it's just explode and and I'm sure he's got more
ideas that can't even he does have the bandwidth to implement so it's just gonna I see that in my own I see that in my own um in my own world um like managing a team of people it's not it's not it's not a huge team there's eight of us I think we've been as big as 14 in the past um the you get a collection of smart people together on a single Mission which is a bit different to open source because open source is kind of more like people scratching their own itches like it's a sort of loose Collec
tive of Waring tribes in a lot of cases but um when you're in a company when you're in a team with a shared Mission um it's not a case of two developers make you go twice as fast the combination of people's brains allow you to see things that you couldn't see before and there's diminishing returns but you get this huge acceleration in like oh but what about this what if we did it this way what if we did it this other way I mean I think Jess talks talked a little bit about um or talked to me at l
east um over a beer around the sort of prompts thing getting back onto that um that it was a itch that she wanted scratch and she'd wanted scratch for a long time because she'd seen some things in the JavaScript community that were frankly better than what we had um and Pitch the idea to Taylor now I'd have to imagine that Taylor was then challenging her to kind of like just take it a little bit further or what if we just did it a little bit more like this um and you end up with something that's
probably arguably better than than any implementation at least that I've seen of a of a terminal tool like that like I can't think of anything that's even remotely close to it and then you pick it up and go well yeah let's just let's just take it from Great to crazy like let's just go right to the extremes of what it's doing I I am curious to think for it I'm curious to think what Jess what what Jess actually thinks of your of of your work like I can't imagine she thought that she was going to
get Norton Commander and God knows what else yeah probably not probably not um I don't know I mean she see she seems to like it I think probably for the first bit like I was I don't know maybe annoying to her I'm not really sure because like you know I would like tag her in the beginning and stuff because I was just excited and then I was like okay let's maybe CH Chill on that for a for a while but um she seems to like it I don't know we we talk mostly through PRS uh if if at all so but she's sh
e's so I find submitting a PR to Jess like very intimidating because she's just like so I think she's like next level smart um and so I get like I get like a little ner I'm like okay let's prep this thing let's get it right whatever and then she's so like kind and she's like so patient and like I've she's like really walked me through a couple of you know we're working on a um getting a multi-line input into into prompts and it's arguably harder than any of the things that I have done on the ter
minal just because it's so detail oriented and it's you you really have to make this thing that's just a string of characters look and feel and behave like what you're used to in the browser as a text area it's so hard and then like every time I'm like okay we did it we really did it this time Jess is like cool almost except if you do basically this this this this this it kind of breaks a little bit I'm like totally got it okay next we're do it but she's so she's so nice about it and and she's s
o kind and I really I have a lot of respect for J I I actually heard Jess when when you said that I think almost except I think Michael and I have both been on the opposite side of that conversation few times yeah I mean yeah Jess is great she's I mean she's you're right she's intimidatingly clever like she's very very very smart um I I um a long time ago I actually tried to employ her at the same time that Taylor was trying to employ her so I was never going to win that fight um but uh yeah I m
ean even even just like approaching her to sort of say hey would you like a job was like intimidating because she's just completely other level but she's also like probably um a lot of developers who are good who know they're good really um radiate I'm really good she doesn't like she's really I know about it yeah it's because she just her own yeah I just did this crazy thing it's not a thing it's just a thing yeah she's yeah she's great yeah the other you'll get on soon people people like that
especially when they're kind of working by themselves or their own own little bubble you know before they start putting their their work into the world they don't there's a lot of imposter syndrome in in developers in general it's like yeah yeah like I'm good in my group of like three or working by myself but it's like how does that scale up and you kind of you look at people like Adam than you know Taylor Matt all of these people out in the community you look at them you go yeah I'm good like I
'm here but you look and you're like oh you're at the bottom of that other ladder you know it's like finishing um you know Elementary School you're at the top of the ladder and then you go to you know Junior High whatever it is high school and you're like oh I'm like back at the bottom of the ladder you know and so it's this like reinforcing thing that yeah I'm I'm good in my own context and and it's not until you know you get the n you take the plunge you know either someone pushes you out the
door like I did pushed her out onto that stage and told her we need to hear what you have to say um or you know you just like yourself Joe just put some stuff on Twitter and and see what happens and it's not even it's not even in the context of like I'm going to put this out and people are going to love it it's just like no we'll just put this out into the world and see what happens yeah I mean and and sort of on that note I was sideline for ever I was just observing and I was just watching peop
le do things and I was like oh this is cool and I have my imposter syndrome obviously still exists but I had it for so long so bad because I don't have I I have a BFA in acting I don't have a computer science degree I don't have a conventional background I'm self-taught since high school but um I think that's a little bit when when it comes down to it my superpower because like the grind in me is like very real and I I I work hard to make sure that I'm like on the up and up and I'm I'm trying to
like stay knowledgeable but um I didn't share for a long time because of that I was like oh I'm going to put something out there and people are going to be like this guy's an idiot for sure for sure this guy's an idiot and like uh there's been like two cases of that but otherwise it's been okay yeah and I'm sure me me saying that somebody that is the reason and it's it's all in your head you know it's it's and even if somebody does say that it's who cares next you know keep keep put stuff out t
here yeah we I mean we see that even like from those upper echelons of people they're like even if you have a huge following and a huge audience and like lots of people respect you and say nice things about you you kind of become like in the in the reverse you become numb to all of that cuz that's all you see and it's that one standout negative comment that can slap you down and it's like yeah I am terrible like never mind the hundred people that said this is great it's that one person that they
know the real me you know everyone's just being nice and it's and it's hard to overcome that to you know just do the thing but we are very fortunate in in the larel community especially um to to have a very supportive and understanding audience and like it's a shared audience everyone is following you know what everyone is doing in our community and it's and it's just is a genuine and really supportive group of group of people like even Greg felt that as a as a first time speaker last year you
know every in that audience is there cheering you on wanting you to succeed you know the people that you look up to are there because you know they they've done the work yes but they were at one point the people cheering on the people before them so you know you are now making your way into that position where you know you have been cheering people on and now there are people cheering you on and that that kind of that cyclic environment of like people move up because you know it it just feeds it
self and it just keeps going and like credit to Taylor he he leads that from the top you know he reached out to you Joe with 100 followers doing like random experiments I saw um Jeffrey was like hey we would he tweeted like a month or two ago saying like we we'd pay good money to have a course on this stuff on laras like that stuff doesn't happen if you just too worried to put yourself you're on the sideline and even Ryan Chandler who is another genius that's doing insane things all the time he'
s like yeah people care about this like you know people and then I got out of a meeting at work and I saw you know yeah Jeffrey Wade commented and I was like okay well okay then people care about this you know as much as I guess more than I anticipated even in that regard yeah and not some far off thing like it wasn't a week or you know months later it was like a few hours after after the fact you know after you had made that post that Jeffrey was like let's do it you know kind of thing so I hop
e I hope that eventuates for you into something CU you know being a a laracast Creator is a good way to get in front of a whole bunch of of laral people you don't have to worry about doing any of the marketing all of that stuff kind of gets done for free by virtue of the fact that you are a Creator or or you know a teacher I think they called on laracast of laracast so yeah I hope I hope that work uh it's it's definitely the the gold star you know gold gold standard of of the uh of the community
in terms of like you know I've watched I don't know how many episodes of larc cast at this point over the years and I've been at this point I should be a lifetime subscriber but I'm I still pay monthly because I'm just like ah just just keep doing it so cheap it is so probably would have probably would have saved a ton of money just going lifetime I don't know three years ago but uh yeah I yeah we're we're working on that we'll we'll see what comes with that ni exciting it's exciting it's excit
ing great do you have anything further yeah I mean I I I'm uh just to kind of continue down the ripples path a little bit um I think not long after LaRon Au you started tweeting a little bit about you know the first time speakers and stuff at LaRon Au and I think a few of us decided to um uh peer pressure you I guess into applying to go and give it a go yourself um yeah yeah where's that at when are we gonna see larel prompts on stage again yeah there were a couple people that were pretty persis
tent saying like you should you should talk about this you should talk about what's going on here on the stage somewhere and um it's something I've wanted to do for a long time but again like you know I was like oh nobody wants to hear what I have to say or you know whatever it is but um it's actually a great Fusion of my background in acting and now my life in Tech my current life in Tech so it's it's in in preparing it feels very natural but I I submitted some talks to laran India and a couple
months ago um I woke up to an email and I was like are they are they asking me and I showed the email because I was like they might just be being nice I can't tell I can't tell and so I showed the email to my wife and I was like is this a yes like are they saying yes and she's like yeah yeah they're very explicit saying yes like why are you doubting yourself here and so yeah I'm very very excited um so I'm going to be talking about uh these building these sorts of apps in the terminal uh and it
's I it's mostly done at this point and I'm I'm really excited to get up there and do it it's it it feels very natural to present in this way and I'm I'm excited to do more of this if if given the opportunity nice yeah that that's a that's a um I think Lon India is probably like if if if if I mean for you having a background in acting it's probably not so bad but uh it's hard it' be hard mode for me to jump up like that that thing is like three times bigger than any other Laron in terms of atten
dees I mean yeah the room alone is like gargantuan I've seen the pictures and uh you know it's funny I was I was sitting at laran us last year and um he got up to sort of promo it and he was saying like you know you come to Lon India looks and they showed some footage and I was like that looks rad that looks so much I that swing it but like whatever and now I'm going to be like up on that stage doing it and it's really uh it's I tweeted which is so it feels so silly to say that but it's also lik
e that's the reason you know yep that's what it is it's one little tweet starts this cascading Know series of events that unless you make that tweet if you like if you had gone uh is anyone interested in this and wrote the Tweet out and just going nah never mind like nothing nothing would have come of that now yeah Taylor's noticed you Jeffrey's noticed you you've you know you're speaking at LaRon India I'm sure that you've applied to LaRon us um austr is coming up if you want to travel 30 hours
to the other side of the world I'm already doing it so might as well do it again right yeah yeah 100% so you know all of these opportunities only come your way when you put yourself out there and like it feels repetitive um and I I'm channeling my inner Aaron Francis every time I say it but you know the whole point of this podcast is to show like to to put it out there in the world that people need to understand this can happen to anyone at any time for any reason and unless you send that tweet
write that blog post publish that video get on that stage no one's going to know about it it's true it's true and I if you would asked me a year ago if any of the opportunities that I've gotten or and and this is just the beginning I'm not even like that far into this journey but yeah I would have never ever ever called it and Aaron Francis did call it he called it like the third experiment in the second experiment in he said this is your big thing and I was like yeah I don't think so I think I
'm just fooling around here and then I think off the Jeffrey tweet he put it back to me and he said I called this just so you know yeah and I was like you dug back probably eight months of tweets to find a reply to me to quote tweet it back to me and I I have to I have to respect that honestly when Aaron talks you listen like the guy more right than he's wrong for sure it's not just that he said well he wears the shoes in the house I don't know if we're going to go that far with it you know but
he's a very smart guy and I I love you don't yeah yeah it's not it's not just that he said it it's that he remembered that he said it and he went back and dug it up so that he could throw it back at your feet and be like here you go yeah which was very kind of him actually it was very very ultimately very nice of him yeah cool Perfect all right I think that's a reasonable place to to start wrapping things up yeah is there anything you wanted to talk about Joe or where where can people who haven'
t found you yet find you uh Twitter is mostly the place you can find me at Joe tanon bomb on Twitter and uh yeah I'll I haven't been doing a lot of experience lately I got a lot of other things going on in terms of uh life stuff and whatever but uh I will get back to it because I do I do enjoy it so once everything settled down I'll start start fiddling again excellent we love to say it um thank you so much for having me on I really appreciate it happy to have you yeah yeah a pleasure mate all r
ight cool well you can find uh us at ripples FM we'll have some show notes I guess maybe I don't know we do show notes Michael yeah we'll do show notes Michael does all these things um and uh yeah uh if anyone else would like to come on and talk about their story you can reach out to Michael or myself on Twitter and we'll sort something out yeah love to have you love to hear your story uh want to keep reinforcing this this idea no uh it's not our idea we don't own it but I'm more than happy to p
erpetuate it um and I have seen just on that perpetuating it I've seen the first concepts for The Branding for lar on Au this year and let me tell you we are going to continue the ripples this year it will become a thing team for Au 2024 so hope to get that out soon more information will follow November is the month so start penciling that into your calendars if you are interested in attending but I will say no more at this time and until next episode I have been Michael I've been joined by Joe
tanal and my co-host Greg skurman and we will see you next time around [Music] a
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