Good afternoon and welcome to the 100 and
42nd of the COVID calls. This is a daily discussion of the COVID-19 pandemic with
a diverse collection of disaster experts. My name is Scott Gabriel Knowles. I'm a
historian of disasters at Drexel University in Philadelphia. Today we will discuss Comedy
in the age of COVID-19, with Kurt Braunholer. Just a reminder, you can catch COVID calls live
every weekday at 5pm. Eastern Time on YouTube. Just go to the COVID calls YouTube channel
to watch. You
can also watch COVID calls on Facebook Live and on Periscope. You can hear COVID
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can also keep up with COVID calls via Twitter, using the handle @USofDisaster or @covidcalls.
Please help spread the word and send suggestions for guests and future topics. And please feel
free to suggest yourself as a future guest. As of today, October 6 2020, there
are 1,045,563 deaths from COVID-19, globally, acc
ording to the Johns Hopkins
University Coronavirus Resource Center. There are 7,467,186 cases in the United States.
That's up from 7,433,828 cases reported yesterday. And they're now a total of 210,355 deaths
reported in the United States from COVID-19, up from 209,881 reported yesterday. As a
way to bring some humanity to the numbers. I've been reading a life story or a story of
advocacy for those impacted by the pandemic in some way. And I'd like to continue
that now. The headline is Ken
Shimura, one of Japan's most famous comedians, dies at 70
after contracting Coronavirus. This was published April 7th by Eric Grossman in MarketWatch. A
household name in his native Japan, Ken Shimura's popularity bridged generations. The comedian was
a constant fixture on Japanese television for the better part of five decades, rarely straying
from his crowd-pleasing brand of comedy skits. Yet despite the outlandish nature
of his most famous characters, the rubber-faced funny man was some
times
referred to as "Japan's Robin Williams", he was known to be somewhat shy and quiet when
not not performing. Shimura's half-century run as one of Japan's most recognizable comedians ended
March 29, when he died at the age of 70 due to pneumonia caused by COVID-19. Upon being admitted
to a Tokyo hospital on March 20 after developing a fever and experiencing respiratory problems,
Shimura was diagnosed with severe pneumonia; a day later, he was put on a ventilator and
never regained cons
ciousness. On March 23, it was announced Shimura had tested positive
for COVID-19, thus becoming the first prominent Japanese Entertainment figure to be diagnosed with
the virus. I don't think he imagined he would die a death like this. I'm sure he was working hard
with his sense of mission to deliver laughter to people, said a representative of Izawa Office,
Shimura's talent agency. I hope you will remember him and laugh. Until the end, he was committed
to presenting laughter to people. Bo
rn Yasunori Shimura on February 20 1950, in Higashimurayama,
Tokyo, Shimura's comedic aspirations grew after seeing his father, a strict Judo instructor,
being captivated by televised comedy shows. After completing his education, Shimura went on
to join one of Japan's most famous comedy groups, The Drifters, in 1974. The outfit, which started
as a rock-n-roll band a decade earlier, achieved lasting notoriety in June of 1966, when it served
as the opening act for the Beattles' first-ever Jap
an performance at Tokyo's famed Budokan Arena.
Shimura joined The Drifters, joined after The Drifters had shifted their focus to comedy and
become a prime-time TV sensation with Hachijidayo Zen’inshūgō! It's eight o'clock! Everybody
gets together!, which ran from 1969 to 1985. One of the most beloved variety shows in Japanese
history, Hachijidayo drew record-high-ratings at its peak, roughly 50% of the country's TVs tuned
into the program, thanks to a brand of slapstick, lowbrow humor that
made it especially popular
with children, much to the dismay of parents. Many considered it to be the Japanese
counterpart to The Benny Hill Show. Soon after he began playing guitar in the
group, Shimura developed his acting skills with the other members, and it wasn't long
before he demonstrated a gift for comedy. Shimura's youthful energy helped The
Drifters achieve new heights. In interviews, he referenced the Marx Brothers and Jerry Lewis
as inspirations. His emotive style, in which he
utilized exaggerated bodily movements and facial
expressions, helped him appeal to non-Japanese audiences as well. Shimura was particularly
famous for his Chaplin-esque mustache dance. In 1986, Shimura teamed up with fellow Drifter Cha
Kato for the series Kato-Chan Ken-Chan Gokigen TV. Fun TV with Kato-Chan and Ken-Chan, which enjoyed
a successful run until 1992. The program included a segment in which viewers were encouraged to
submit amusing video clips from their home movies, an idea co
nceived by Shimura. This format
was introduced to American viewers by ABC when it launched America's Funniest Home Videos. In 2006, Shimura launched his own comedy
theater, Shimurakon, Shimura spirit, while 2007 saw him gaining new fans by hosting
Tensai! Shimura Doubutsuen, Genius! Shimura Zoo, a weekly prime-time animal show in which he shared
the spotlight with dogs and monkeys. Shimura remained active right up until his passing,
starring in numerous TV programs. Though he rarely perform
ed as a conventional actor, prior to his
death, Shimura had landed his first starring film role in Kinema no Kamisama, God of Cinema, the
comedy from the legendary director Yōji Yamada. Shimura was also scheduled to carry the Olympic
flame representing his hometown of Higashimurayama during the torch relay for the 2020 Summer
Olympics in Tokyo, which were postponed to 2021 due to the virus epidemic. On YouTube,
his clips have garnered millions of views, with many of his most famous appearan
ces dubbed
in multiple languages. Shimura's unexpected death sent shockwaves throughout Japan as the nation
grappled with the global pandemic. News and talk shows offered dedicated coverage to his life and
death, with a mix of his contemporaries and much younger celebrities paying tribute while reminding
audiences of Shimura's multi-generational appeal. Groups of fans and media congregated
outside the hospital where Shimura died, and a televised tribute on April 1 was viewed by
more than 4
0 million people across his homeland. Okay, I'd like to turn to my discussion for
today. I'm very excited to speak with Kurt Braunholer. Kurt is a comedian, actor and writer
who once crowdfunded a sky writer to write How do I Land in The Sky Above Los Angeles. He's been
seen in movies, The Big Sick and The Long Shot as well as Fox's Bob's Burgers show times
Black Monday and Netflix's Lady Dynamite. He hosts a strange news podcast called Bananas as
well as the long running 15 years now varie
ty show Hot Tub with Kurt and Kristen. Kurt Braunholer,
thank you so much for joining me on COVID calls. Hello, how are you? Thank you for having me. So I'd like to start the way I usually do.
Just find out where you're calling in from and how the pandemic is looking there today? I'm calling in from Los Angeles and
on the surface of it, pandemic seems, in my neighborhood at least, people are wearing
masks. People are wearing masks like for walks outside by themselves when no one else
is aro
und. Which is like a very I feel like a like an abundance of caution but a nice sign. The
more the thing that's more impacting I feel now, since we've been in this for so long, is
the smoke. There's still smoke in the air from the wildfires that just don't stop
burning. They don't stop burning, Scott. You're not prepared for that. No. Recent, somewhat recent trends
transplant to Los Angeles. Yeah. And also it's like one more. You know,
its like the only thing we could do. I have two childre
n under the age of three, the
only thing we could do was go outside and then the air got so bad that we
could no longer go outside. So now not only can we not do anything but now we're
also trapped inside this house and it is is it's crazy making it's the air has gotten better
in the past couple of days but wow its rough? It's a form of lockdown that I think
people don't can't really fully comprehend unless they've lived
through something like that. Yeah. And I'm I, fingers crossed my kids
don't remember it. Because they're three and one. Ah, my three year old will remember
it. She talks about the Coronavirus constantly. Really. What did she say about it? This morning, she was just saying she's like you
know what i love i love the good Coronavirus and we're like What's that? And she's like it
fights the bad Coronavirus and we're like, and then it's like you're in this parenting like
dilemma of like, do you explain that there's no good Coronavirus? You know what I mean? Or
d
o you like try and say like the Coronavirus isn't good or bad. It's just a virus, it's living
out its lifecycle. Like, that's too complicated. We just settled for like, there's the virus and
there's a vaccine and the vaccine, you know, fights the virus. That's kind of what we're
trying to explain to her. But every time we say the word vaccine, she's just like, I don't
want to get it. And we're just like, you don't, you don't have to. Other people will get it
first. And so then she started g
oing, like, I can't wait for all those other
people to get this vaccine. I'm not getting it. Just all of a sudden a
weird political statement for my daughter. I feel like you have all of American politics
playing out in your living room, but with a three year old. So I hadn't thought of the perspective
of the anti I mean, of course, there's anti-vaxx, but but the sort of really,
really young anti-vax is really.. Really Anti-Vax. Anti-vax in a much more hardcore sense. Like, stay away from m
e with that
needle kind of anti-vax Yeah. I think most three year olds are
anti-Vax. That's the funniest. I love what you're doing. How long have you you
did improv? I mean, you've been doing improv your whole career. You've been doing ita long
time now. And your first, your daughter sort of gave you a total Yes And moment. And your first
impulse was like, I don't know. I'm not sure. Because that's the thing. Like I
sometimes get into trouble when I'm like, when I'm just like going with it
, you know? Yeah. Because there's like there's a there's like
this, can we curse on this? Is it is it? Yeah. There's this piece of shit kid that she she goes
to daycare with, who nobody likes, and shoot, like he scratched her or something. And then
I started telling her because that we're just talking about and she's like, why is he even
there because he's like, older and stuff. And I was like, Well, once we get this vaccine, he'll go
back to kindergarten. So that's a reason to hope for the
vaccine, get this kid out of there. And
then of course like she went in and started like telling everybody: you're only here because of
the coronavirus. Thoughts now of like, I have like what now it's like that idea of like trying to
Yes And, but also watching what I'm saying because it gets an interpreted in a three year old brain
and then repeated, usually getting me in trouble. I mean, like obvious parallels to the kinds
of communication strategies that Trump's team must have to deal wi
th are right there.
We know it's gonna make it to the media, we just don't know in what format so
we got to be careful how we say it. Yeah, just bump bumps around a bunch
of cobwebs and then comes out crazy. So well, thanks for making time
to come on this today. I know. You and I have known each other for a long time. Yeah. And I was just had been wanting to talk with you,
in part because so many of these COVID calls are really talking with epidemiologists and public
health researchers. An
d we've been talking about structural racism. And we've been talking
about every disaster that's happening in this big complex. We've done multiple
on wildfires, for example. And I know, you know, you're engaged in all those issues too,
but you've come at them through your own craft. And so I want to I mean, that's kind of what I
wanna talk about today is how comedian looks at disaster? How a comedian looks at at this world?
And I want to work around too it's kind of a big question to take
on but I guess the first thing
I just wanna ask you is like what's it been like to do comedy, at this time? Maybe just the
logistics of it because you you do club, you do everything but I know you do clubs and
that must be off the table right now. Right? Yeah, there's no live performance. I mean,
like it's different in New York City. I mean, like right now. But I think that's going to change
soon. People are doing some outside shows in LA, some outside shows in New York City. But a few
and
far between there's some clubs that have like outside seating going on, but for the most part,
every comedian I know is not working. The only shows we do are zoom shows. Which is like it is
the it is the shadow against the wall. It is not it's just like it's not doing stand up comedy,
you know, and it's like this weird approximation of doing stand up comedy. So yeah, I mean we've
still, because we have been doing Hot Tub with me and Kristen show. We started Hot Tub 15
years ago and we've,
you know, been doing it every Monday night for 15 years. And so we didn't
wanna stop during this so we went virtual with it on Twitch. And it's just-- I mean, the experience
of it is not great, I think, from a performance standpoint. I have no idea how it is to watch.
But also to figure out what to talk about is interesting because there is an exhaustion.
By the time you get to 8pm at night and you want to watch a comedy show. You're not watching
comedy show to-- your watching comedy show t
o relax because it's so stressful and tense. And
so there's this like fine line you you walk, between talking about the, the, the pandemic
and not talking about it. And I kind of have both because Kristen and I usually talk about the
pandemic or talk about whatever is going on in the news and are in like are opening riff, we don't
write it, we're just improvising. But then with my podcast, Bananas, that's all we never mentioned
the pandemic, like it has never been mentioned. It's only stran
ge news, and it's
much sillier. And I think right now, people want something that has nothing to do
with the insane torrent of horror that they see every single day. They just wanna take a little
bit of a break. And, you know, but that's also my style of comedy as well as it's never it's
never really about current events with me. Have you done Zoom stand
up solo, during this time? Yep, I just did. There was a comedy
festival Plano Comedy Festival, which I was supposed to do in person. Yeah
. And then they went virtual. So I did that on
Sunday, did like a half hour set. And they have like people in the zoom. But you know, some of
them are muted. Some of them aren't. Some of them are talking. You know, it's just, it's like every
audience member has a microphone, which is crazy. It's a nightmare scenario. But I mean, when you
when you do when you do your stand up, I mean, you're well, let's start with improv. So, have
you tried to do any improv in this in this format? No, becaus
e they don't really do it. Like
when Christina and I doing Hot Tub that's us improvising. You know, like, we're
not nothing's written. So that's kind of improv but like doing scenes and stuff
like that I kind of have left that world for, you know, since I started stand
up, really. So it was 15 years ago. And the material when you're doing stand
up, I assume, you know, much of it is very well worked out. That's
and and then some of it must be kind of things you're working out
while you're
there. Right? I mean... Yeah. If I'm doing a long set, then it's like
if I'm headlining like I was headlining a night for the comedy festival, then that's all stuff
that was written. That's like, it's it's written, I know it. I know, it works. But then for Hot Tub,
that's where I try stuff out. So you know, like, last night, I did probably five new minutes of
brand new jokes. And it's frustrating because you kind of don't know if they work or not. So it's
very difficult to be continually wr
iting stand up during this time where you're not
-- You just you don't have like, usually I would get up and try it, you know, you
know, do five new minutes and be like, Okay, I've got two minutes that definitely works and I need
to rework these three things or throw them out. Now I'm like, I don't know, I don't know
what what if this works or not works, because it's like nine people in the zoom audience
and nine people's not enough to get a wide enough berth of people's opinions and experi
ences to
find out whether or not it works with a crowd. Is that I mean, are you hearing other comedians
say the same thing? I mean, I don't know how you how you work out your material. You were
describing a lot of it, you have it to a point and then you start your work with you on
stage. You see what's working and what isn't. I mean, how is any comedian working
at this time? If they don't? I mean-- A lot of people just aren't. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I wasn't I wasn't writing stand
up for
a long time, which is rare. You know, it's like, you know, I've just been writing standup
for 15 years. And so probably for six months, five months, I just was like, Why? I can't find
out if any of this works. I don't wanna have 100 jokes and I don't know, if you know that,
I don't know if any of them work or not. And you can try them out on on Twitter, but you know,
there's no delivery, there's no timing on Twitter. So yeah, so I just started doing it,
because I'm gonna record a special, I
think in January in January outside-- So
it'll be an outside show, socially distance, safe and everything, with like under 100 people
because I think that's the limit right now in LA for a live show. And because of that, I'm like,
Okay, I gotta start writing some stuff. But I think I might have to do a tour of outdoor
venues soon to make sure this stuff works. Well, that was the question
I was leading up to. I mean, you know, you get back out there.
And like you said, he said, Well, I'll
just take advantage of this time, which
I'm locked down, I'll write an hour and then you get out there on stage. I'm not saying this
would happen to you, but it could happen to a theoretical comedian. And none of it lands because
you haven't had that interaction with people. Oh, yeah. So you're finding other ways to do it. And also even not even that, like I've heard
stories, because there was this like set of half hours that were gonna be recorded
before the pandemic, and then the pandemic
happened. And then this, the production
company, like figured out a way to do it. But the way that they could do it was that they,
the audience was hired extras. And they all had, they were all tested, and they were all employed,
but they were like, hired extras, not comedy fans. So then all these comics came up and did their,
like 30 minutes, to essentially a bunch of like board extras. And that was even material that
was written before the pandemic, you know. That looks like a Kim Jong-U
n
Comedy Club or something. It was yeah. I heard from one
comic was just like, it was awful. So it's you also have the constraints
of the of shooting and production during the pandemic, in addition to the constraints
of content production during the pandemic. That was the other thing I
wanted to ask you about. So like, what does it look like for, because it's a
big constellation of people who work in the business here and and only a small percentage of
them are up on stage? I mean, most o
f them are in the production business. What's it? What's that
like for them right now? Are they able to work? Well, yes, there are production is slowly
starting up, like I just, I'm doing a Disney show next week. And it's like a ton of testing.
They have rapid testing. And it also depends on how big the show is, and how scaled it is. I've
heard that Amazon has, like, they have the ability now to do 200 rapid tests a day for and so then
that means like every like, you know, everyone who's an
d Kristen, my my comedy partner, she's
in Vancouver right now shooting a show for Hulu. And she says it's like, she's in a tent outside
by herself at all times. And then she like walks on. Like, there's nobody sitting around on apo
boxes on set. It's just like the director and the, and the DP, and that's it. All, everyone else is
cleared out to their sections. And if you're in groups, and those groups are the only ones that
are allowed to mingle, so if one group is on set, and other other g
roups can't be on set, and
you're only allowed to like talk to the people who are in your like, specific group, and you're all
tested every day or every other day. It's crazy. It's what imagine like doing comedy in a
prison camp or something. Believe me with this six people and they've got being watched.
And yeah. I mean, it's, it just feels like so much of the informality that makes the overall
kind of atmosphere of what you do. You don't, don't have that anymore,
that informality is is g
one. And also people want to people aren't gonna
laugh if they don't feel safe. Do you know what I mean? If they're like the laughter
comes from comfortable being comfortable that's why alcohol is served to comedy clubs.
And yeah, that's a that's another thing too. You can't have alcohol served, because
you can't take your mask off during the show. Which is weirdly like that's a that's
an issue like people, people. There's a reason comedy clubs have to drink minimum, other than you
know th
at other than that's the business model. Yeah, sure. Sure. What about the other
venues that are available? I mean, internet, comedy is not a brand new thing. You know,
people are making all kinds of products. Yeah. For every different kind of social media
and internet media that's out there. Right. And he did that where I mean, I don't
want to be too hyperbolic. But I mean, can comedy clubs come back from this? I mean, is
this the inflection point in which every comedian coming up has got t
o have their own product
line for Twitter, TikTok, blog, podcasts? It's kinda been that way for a while anyway. Yeah,
there's very few, just like road dogs who are only doing live comedy, you know, you kind of have to
have all of those things anyway. But this pushes it even further and answering your question,
yes. Like, this is gonna be the death of, I don't know, 50% of the venues in America, I
think. I mean, that's, that's my guess. But if, you know, how long can they hold out? It's I do
n't
think fully, like they all have their, you know, business models are like on on the razor's
edge, you know. They're only making money if they can sell out their Saturday night early
Show and their Friday night, late, early show, you know, like, that's like the guarantee. Like
every comedy club can sell out those two slots, then they're gonna be okay on like, 25% capacity
or 50% capacity, even if it's, if they're allowed to open in that in that county. So yeah, I
just don't, I don't, I
think it's gonna be you know, but it's happened before. Like the 80s.
There was just like this big huge spike in comedy clubs where like every small town had a comedy
club, and then because of that, people would go to comedy clubs and see bad comedians. Because there
was there's so many space so much stage time, they just had to throw people up. And then the
idea of stand up was that it was bad because there was too many stages. And then it just
super shrunk in the 90s, and that's when the
kind of alternative comedy started up in
places that aren't traditional comedy clubs, which is kind of the scene that I came up in.
And then now it's like that explosion, again, because of podcasts. So now there's all
of these, there's comedy clubs everywhere. So it is, I think it's a site cyclical
restriction, but it's a contraction, you know, forced by the pandemic, but also a contraction
that I think was going to come at some point. But there's this weird geographical
effect, right? I m
ean, because we're a country. I think we're still a country that
with 50 states and 50 pandemics, basically. Mm hmm. And I haven't looked at the rules, but I presumed
that if you really like a working road comic, or if that was a big chunk of your
income, you're working Texas, Florida, Alabama, Oklahoma, I don't know you're
not working the West Coast, and you're not working the East Coast, you're not working in
the Great Lakes. I mean, that's kind of a strange, maybe weird, unintended conse
quence that
those clubs maybe are open in those places. I don't know. You found yourself
missing playing Tuscaloosa, and, and I miss I miss touring. You know, I miss. I mean,
I think we all miss going places I heard you know, like, what was it? I think Virgin Australia
sold a flight to nowhere for seven, a seven hour flight to nowhere. And
it's sold out in like 15 seconds. I saw that. But I didn't read
behind the headline that was like, you literally just sit on a plane and
they bring you
a meal and you sit there. It takes off. It takes off flies around and lands. Oh, I'm a terrible consumer, I would
have just gone and sat on the plane. They didn't do that. They did that somewhere
else, where you could just go and sit on a plane for an hour. Which seems so as
a person who has to fly all the time, the last part I miss about travel is
the actual traveling. But I do miss like going into a town and you know, being
there for four days and doing six shows. Yeah, I was gonna ask y
ou
about that. I had the same thing. I've missed places,
I didn't think I would miss. Oh, yeah, I've been -- Yes. Good. You know what I mean? No, I just like
for I was you know, doing research and and there is a town in, in western Pennsylvania.
Johnstown, Pennsylvania, which is not like a tourist Mecca. Yeah. It's a cool place. And I've
missed it so much. I just wanted to get there, you know, in completely irrational, but in my
mind, I'm like, I can't go to Johnstown. And I'm so enraged a
bout it is so irrational.
I'm not trying to get to Maui and I'm not trying to get to Disney World. I just
want to get to Western Pennsylvania. Yeah, I remember I was like, I'll it's the
small in, like, incidental, or not incidental. It's like, not important incident moments,
would just jump into my mind from touring, like, every day, like a different town
where I'll just be like, remember that field that I walked through in rally door? You
know, like, that was a I love that field. I'd love
to go back there. You know, we're like thinking
about a Target in Minnesota that I went to, like, I remember I bought a water bottle at that
Target in Minnesota and thinking about that, like. That kind of stuff is the stuff that I miss
the most those kind of incidental moments. You've also done a lot of comedy about --airports,
or I mean, yeah, I don't know how much but I mean, that's been something that comes up a lot
in your work. I mean, you have a great-- I have two jokes, Scott. I
ha
ve two jokes about airports. Okay. Maybe because I like them. It feels
like a bigger percentage of your corpus. I'm not sure. But. But-- that one, the
one about being in the airport with the clock. Yeah, that's more than
just a joke. That's a long bit. It's still a joke. It's still one joke. So it is a joke unit. Sorry. It's a five minute bit probably. Yeah. Yeah. So no airport material right now. That's okay. You can live with that. I can live with that. I just want to remind people you're l
istening to
COVID calls, we're talking about comedy in the age of the pandemic today with Kurt Braunohler.
I got a question in from Jorge Benavides-Rawson , which is a really good insight back
to what we were just talking about the razor thin edge of comedy clubs right now
and sort of having to find a new venue in which to do your work. Jorge is raising this issue
about how that may be, in some ways similar to what educators are going through, we have
to hold an audience in this zoom space
, and at the same time, some of the financial
pressures are the same, too. If we can't get the students back, yeah, pretty soon, you're
going to see a lot of universities and colleges, it's already starting to happen
are gonna go out of business. So crazy. It's so crazy. Yeah, I have a, I have
a buddy who works at the University of Richmond, and they started in student classes,
and I was talking to him, I was like, that seems crazy. He's like, if we don't do
it like that, that's how this p
lace exists. If there's not students, then what
happens? And I'm like, Oh, right. Yeah. The question was whether or not students can find as much meaning out of their college experience in
the way we're having this conversation right now, as they can't be in in the classroom
with a teacher or in the dorm with their friends. And I think I think it's too
soon to say. I mean, kind of similar to comedy, I think it's, it may be is a little too soon to
say what the longer term picture is gonna be
here. I'm gonna. I'm a wager at guess here. At university, they add [Inaudible] It's not gonna be the same. It's not, I think. It's not $50,000 a year for sure. No and it is weird to like, if the technology for
VR were better, like that's what could fill this gap. And I do see like that being the next thing,
because we're all getting used to just being now at home and kind of doing everything at home. Like
Laura, my wife does these online exercise classes, and it's $15 a month and she has ac
cess to
all of these online extra class, she's like gyms are done. She's like, I used to pay $120 to
go to a Pilates's class four times a week, or four times a month. And now I can go twice a day, I
can go twice a day for $15 a month, there's no like, all of those places are gonna go away as
well. And I think VR is gonna fill that gap of this stuff that we're talking about
is literally just going to be seen as a tech issue and not a fundamental problem. I thought about that. I talked
to th
e dean about that sort of VR classroom. I'm sure somebody
is probably already doing that. They must be. Right. Yeah, they must be. Let me ask
you about Bananas. So you-- Yeah, let's talk about, Um, some news show. Yeah, no, that's no but but but cuz something you
said it, that's what I wanted to raise is really tantalizing about this is you have consciously
not engaged the pandemic. So here's a new product. Here is a new thing you're doing. It came out right after the
pandemic started start
ed. Yeah. And tell us what it is. And tell us why you're
not talking about the elephant in the room? Yeah, I mean, it's not we're not reinventing
the wheel. It's just strange news from around the world. And we have guests on
and we kind of, we do six news stories per hour. And we kind of there's a little mini interview
element with our guests. But then also we're just kind of like talking about these dumb strange
fascinate. We thought like inspirationally weird news stories, things that are
and it's not
making fun of these people or fun of the things. It's more trying to identify with them
and and kind of like find them beautiful. You tell us an example of one of
these? People could check it out on a on their own they can find it
on the-- Tell us where they find it? They you can find it anywhere you find podcasts.
It's on the Exactly Right Network, the home to My Favorite Murder. And yeah, you can get it on apple
podcasts or anything. One of my favorite weird news stories is
, and I'm sure you're familiar with
this, but you know, and I'm not gonna be able to remember the scientists name right now. But in
the 60s, NASA was trying to figure out how to how we might talk to aliens. Of course, because
that's what they were, you know, into the 60s. And one of their research projects was to
like essentially, it happened in St. Thomas, I believe. They flooded in an apartment.
So like they built a special apartment. It was half flooded. And then this scientist, this
wo
man lived with a dolphin 24/7. She would like sleep on a coach just above the water. Dolphin
would sleep right below her. And then every day she would try and teach the dolphin to talk. I
love this. I love it. I love the 60s. I love NASA. And and then eventually the dolphin fell in love
with her. And she fell in love with the dolphin. Oh, I didn't see that coming. Oh yeah. And she would have to She would be
it would get so sexually aroused when like they were when she was trying to teach
it
that she would have to relieve it by giving it, jerking it off. Like this
is all like in like record. So you're jerking off so that she could just it could
concentrate on learning to say like apple. Ah, so like that's like that's my favorite. One of our
favorite strange news stories, because it's all real news. It's all the strangest things that have
happened in the world. That was, I think, probably that's probably the only time on
just so this gets put in a book, right? Everything I say
that I said jerk
off a dolphin gets put in a book, right? Yeah. And in case we missed it, you
just said it again, which is perfect. And you make it up. It's not made
up. This is I'm talking about facts. You sound like a historian. I didn't make
any of that stuff up. I dugged it up out of the archive. Well, yeah, I was listening
to one today though. He was it was some French aircraft engineer or something. I don't
know. He went on a test flight. And he got he got kind of caught up. He got a
fraid of what was
going on at high speed and he pulled the ejector he was trying to hold on for dear life. And
then he ejected himself from the airplane. It's so fun. Yeah. And also,
but what makes that story even even more perfect is that he is he's
a like he's a defense contractor. He's an he's a weapons dealer. So it's just like,
Oh, yeah, this is like, beautiful. This is so beautiful. The weapons dealer who's like,
he sells big guns. Like then he gets in this, you know, that gets in th
e plane and can't handle
it. So we just poses. Yeah, I love it so much. So what are people, I mean, what kind of reaction are you getting specifically, because
you're not trying to engage the pandemic? Like, the overwhelming response is that I
need like, I need this podcast right now, because of the darkness in the world, because
it's just a, just a little sliver of just silly and just fun for an hour where
you know, because it is it does feel overwhelming. I was thinking about
it. Today I
was talking with my wife is that I, at this point, I need
Trump to loose in order for me to feel sane, like for me, because if he wins after all
of the things that he's done, then something, something about the world, I that is a fundamental
break with how I understand reality. Do you know so I need him to loose otherwise, like, I'm gonna
have like a psychic like that, then nothing makes sense anymore. You know. So when you're under that
kind of pressure, just on your normal every day, lik
e to have something that's just a little,
it's just a little sip, a sip of stupid tea. But it's, it's so necessary. And I connect
so strongly with what you're saying about Trump, but it's not just him. I mean,
he now is, he's certainly the ringleader. But the disconnection from reality is so intense. And you know, one of the things, it's not
an original observation of mine, but I mean, when comedy works, if it works, I think because
we have a shared culture. And one of the things that histo
rians do when they think about comedy,
is trying to find this very famous story of Robert Darnton, who wrote a book called The Great Cat
Massacre. And it's his story and what he says it's the funniest thing that ever happened in this
particular shop in Paris, in which the printers who work in this shop, hold a mock trial for
cats, and then they end up executing these cats. And they believed it was the funniest
thing that had ever happened in that place. But if you read it out of context, it
's
like, I don't know, this seems a little grim. And his point is that culture is held together
by this sort of bonds of meaning, and shared experience. And of course, we're all sharing the
same experience. Some of us have great privilege, others don't. It's not to say that, yeah, but that
there are sort of cultural fundamentals that hold us society together in a given time and place and
humor thrives in that moment, because it says, This is what you thought, but actually, what about
this?
I mean, there's, there's that aspect to it. Trump seems to be unlocking some sort of
rupture in that, that I can't figure either. Yeah, no, it I agree 100%. And I honestly don't.
It is. It is fascinating because I do have like, even just on a very microscopic level of
like, I have two Trump jokes when when I do my hour when I was touring before this, and I
always leave them to the end of my set, because it just goes one way or the other.
It's either uproarious acceptance or it's dead silen
ce. And that's like how I end
the show. So let's see, they're like they've had a nice time and then they leave hating the
show. Or they, they, they it's like a wonderful. Can you predict that based on like, if you're playing in Jersey versus
playing in Ohio or it's not that easy? It's not that easy. It's really night. It's
a night by night thing sometimes, you know? Yeah, cuz it just depends. It
depends on so many different things. Can you find humor in what Trump is been
up to with this p
andemic? Are there? Are there ways into that that can bring some
some levity. I mean, yeah, every single day, I think about his failures. And I
think about the 210,000 people who've died. And then last night, he stands
on the Truman balcony with his little thing with the mask, and I think it's a
comedic gesture the guy is doing right. Yeah. There's something inherently funny
about that, but it's so dark. Yeah. I can't grasp it. It is First off, you can find humor in anything.
Anything can
be funny. I think what the issue is, is that the humor that you find in what he's doing
right now, will really resonate if he loses. Do you know what I mean? But because it is like this
encroaching wave of kind of like Neo fascism, it feels it feels like that, that it makes it almost
impossible. It makes it you're kind of trapped either way. And also, the fact that it changes so
often is that he doesn't like you can't pin him down. You can't be like, this is a crazy thing he
did. Because to
morrow, it will have doubled. Like, it'll be an even more crazy thing. And now
we're like in a land of like, just Looney Tunes. Every single thing he does is insane. And
so you can never kind of pin him down and be like this one thing he did with then that
feels like that's difficult for satire. You know, to satirize him is
difficult, because he's already-- that. Yeah -- people have observed that he seems to hate
more than anything being mocked or satirized. And so it puts comedians at this
time in a kind of
strange position to. I can't recall her name at the moment, but she's been doing these 62nd
long videos where she takes an audio track what's what's her name? Anyway, she does a 62nd bit
of it, and all she does is is just saying what he says yeah, she just pantomimes what he says
with facial expression added and it's killer. It's devastating. Yeah, I think that puts comedy
in a position of power in this moment, doesn't it? It does, it can. But also, I always push against
that, that thing of like the, the the modern day philosopher, the, the the jester King, you
know, that idea that like comedy is gonna, that were that were out there like changing
the world every single day. Like Yes, that can that can be the case. I think John Stuart
was a great example of that. But, you know, a lot of comedy is just fart jokes. So you can
have like, the highest greatest part of comedy, but you can't leave out the fart jokes,
like the fart jokes are still there. And so I a
lways kind of like push against that,
that like I, there is an art and there is a high art to comedy. And it's beautiful when it
gets there. But that's just the tip of the iceberg. The teeny tiniest tip of the iceberg,
I think and the majority of it is underwater. Let me ask you about timing a little bit. Because
I don't know if you remember this. But after September 11. I have a distinct memory of
the first SNL episode that came on after 9/11. I'm pretty sure Rudy Giuliani was on it
and i
n fact, we got the I think you were there, we got a big group of people together, we watched
it together, maybe that one or one that came after that. And there was a lot of discussion at
that time, like is it too soon? Can we laugh? I remember there was Is irony dead? We're waiting. Is it? Is it okay, now or not? And
what would be the first funny thing you could say about that collective experience? And I
feel like we're kind of having that same moment now. Except no 9/11 happened on
a day
and this happens every single day in America since March. Where do you
come down on this uestion of it being what's the timing? What's the right
moment in which you could actually? There's no right, There's no right moment. It's
there's no too soon do you mean like that whole idea of too soon was born then, you know, for
9/11. That was specifically made for people started saying too soon and still it's a very
common. I remember just to go back to that time. I don't remember that first Satur
day Live I don't
at all, but I do remember the Onion's cover, which was just a picture of the plane sitting the
towers, and then it just said Holy fucking shit. Yeah, I remember that too. And that was to me that was like, Mouah that's perfect. That's it. Nobody has
to do a 9/11 joke after that. So it was because it was totally honest. Yes, yeah, It's what we had all said. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, the moment for it is I
don't know, does it, does it have to be over? You know, that does feel lik
e like
you're trying to make fun of the car accident as the car accident continually
happens and changes. That's the tough part is that you need a target to hit. And
when it's constantly morphing and shifting the target is, you know, you're just
throwing stuff at a moving train. That's what it feels to me like I guess we'd
have to go back and look at like how what kinds of comedy works during wartime? You know, some
disaster that sort of playing out every day? Yeah, I think you'll find wha
t the
comedy that I think you'll find the majority of comedy that works during wartime
is escapist. Really is absurd, silly escapism. So this is absolutely, then I mean,
what you're talking about with Bananas, and the persistence of fart jokes,
and finding the absurd in this moment, But also sorry to interrupt that. No, yeah. But also, you know, like, you're talking
to a person who who believed that before you know what I mean. Like if you talk to a
political comedian, they're going to hav
e a much different they'll think what I'm saying is total
shit. I always love the absurd and the silly, that's where my my soul is. And so yeah,
of course, that's what what I'm gonna say. I mean, to the point at which I have seen you dressed up as a larger than life, I
don't know where you Chicken or Chenguin? Half-chicken, half-Chunk. Half-chicken, half-skunk. I've seen that. I was unfortunately not in LA. When the How do I
land skywriting happened, you've done billboards. You've bought boo
ks and written inscriptions
and put them back in, in bookstores. I jet skate from Chicago to New Orleans. What about greeting cards? Oh, yeah, I would buy greeting cards, take
them home, put different endings to them, and then snake them back into the
store and put them back on display. There's a bigger strategy
with that, right? I mean, when when you're when you're bringing
the absurd into people's lives, even in those highly bespoke ways, like
one person is gonna find this absurd thing.
Maybe Maybe they'll find it, you know. What's that about? Oh, that was always about I think. At that time,
I had really defined my reason for existence as a comedian of like inserting absurdity into
strangers lives in order to make the world a better place. And it was kind of a riff on what
we were trying to do with Chenguin and Chunk. So Chenguin was this half-chicken, half-penguin.
Chunk was a half-chicken, half-skunk. They were half brothers. There are these tall, nine foot
tall costumes
that my friend Matt Murphy made. And they would meet in the middle of the city
and just like bump into each other and lots of people would come and cheer them on. This
was in 1999. And that our idea there was that we would love to take this public space that is
defined in people's minds is really what we're talking about with psychogeography. Whereas
like this, this space for this person is like my walk to work or my walk to the subway, or this
is right in front of my favorite deli. And th
at's how they've defined it. And then we want it
to be able to like change, push that out to Now It's chicken giant chicken fight arena, to
like physic to psychologically change the space with these crazy things that just happened and
then disappear with no reason. And we thought the absurdity of that was just so beautiful. And
I think that where I did with the How do I land and with the greeting cards, that that stuff
came from kind of the same place of being able to kind of like reinvent
those public
spaces for a moment, even if it's one person. I've been thinking about that though, in
terms of the lockdown and the restricted movement that we have in these times. I mean,
what absurd potential is there in the pandemic, that sort of opens up the same kind of
possibilities. I've been trapped in my house. Yeah, basically my neighborhood. I have one
running route that I do have lots I could do, but I've just settled on one. I've gotten locked
in, even with my constricted enviro
nment. I've made it even more constricted somehow. I go
to one room to do a certain thing. I need some of that absurdity and disruption, even in this
little constricted environment than I live in. Yeah. No, I think we all do. It's tough though,
that most of our the constrictions happening in our private homes, you know. Just want to remind people, you're listening
to COVID calls, talking with Kurt Braunohler today about comedy, and the pandemic. Get your
questions in if you want to on YouTu
be Live, and you can put them up on Twitter, just
be sure to tag me at @USofDisaster. So I wanted to make sure two other things I
want to make sure we get to one is that you and your wife Lauren, did a podcast
series of them called Wedlock. Mm hmm. And that was out a couple years ago.
And can you say a little bit about that? Because that's been on my I've gone
back and look, those listened to a couple of those and thought about that, because
it is about intensely examining marriage. Yeah,
it was it was right after we got
married that we, I think we might have even did we start before we got married? I don't
know. But yeah, we were taught it was just it was kind of each episode would take one theme or
issue of involved with a person being, you know, involved with another human being, and kind
of examine that. We had one on monogamy, where we kind of talked about, we spoke with a woman,
a cam-woman, Cam-woman, cam-girl, who, you know, has all of these relationships with these
married
men, but it is strictly through them typing things and watching her. And whether or not like
that was a was cheating. We went and saw a bunch of, of bonobos, who are a matriarchal line of primates that have sex over like 65
times a day, they use sex as barter and, and greetings, and thank you. It's amazing.
Like we went and watch, they literally have sex, just constantly all the time. And they're very
close to chimpanzees, genetically, but chimpanzees fight all the time for dominanc
e. And they use
sex for dominance and to like, keep the social order in check. And so it's kind of like it was
kind of fun stuff like that, where we were kind of like investigating relationships,
but from all these unexpected angles. I've been thinking about it,
because, you know, again, people are finding themselves
spending so much. Those who, again, they're not essential workers who have
to be out there On the front lines, people are spending a lot more time with family, or with
roomma
tes there with those roommates. I mean-- Oh, yeah. --intensification of
relationships to this six months, is going to be I think, one of this most
long lasting impacts of this pandemic. Yeah, if you were like, if you wanted to know
whether or not you needed to get a divorce, like the pandemic, let you know. I got a
bunch of friends who are getting divorced. I was thinking of it the other way, like,
if you wanted to know that this person you're engaged to is definitely the right
person for
you the pandemic had shown you. Yeah, but that's the same thing.
We're saying the exact same thing. [Inaudible] Opposite. Yeah, yeah. But also, it's just it like,
and if not, then you can kind of probably survive anything. Once you can
go outside, once you could go somewhere, I'd be like, the pressure is
gonna be off, it's gonna be easy. It's so funny. And there's been, you know,
back to the sort of a version of like, the places you've missed, or the
little routines you've missed, has it b
een like I think of people I know
from work, who I really don't even know them. Yeah. Like, I might have walked past them
once a week for 10 years, but I missed. There's some of them I'm like, I really
want to see I want to have that one kind of awkward interaction that we always have like an
elevator whatever. Like I kind of missed that too. So yeah. Oh, of course, though. The
most embarrassing thing I think I miss is the mall. That because now that we have kids, like I always hated them.
I grew up in
Jersey, so I like growing up. I love the mall. Yeah. And then I came like turning you know, once
I left jersey, I was like, I hate the mall. Wow. Yeah. And then I had kids and in Southern California
is like the land of the open-air mall with like, big fountains and bands playing and stuff. Yeah. And you know, we would we
used to go with the kids and we could get a drink. And they
could go we go to the bookstore, and like you know, get a book and get some food
and that was just
such a pleasant, you know, thing where we didn't have to worry, you know,
it was just so nice. And now that's the one thing that's the thing I keep thinking about. Like, if
we go to the mall right now, this would be fine, but instead we can't we just get in the car and
drive them around until they start crying and then come back home. Like that's an event for a
Saturday is to drive in circles for 30 minutes. That's your that's your L.A. psychogeography
now. You get in the car and just driv
e Just drive. But that again, that's a problem with the
fire. You can't do that so then you're just walking around the apartment. Yeah. We're almost up on time. I wanted to make sure
we we leave time because I I have a lot of your work that I'm a huge fan of. But you have a
pretty recent bit, which I'm enormous fan of, I think actually kind of tells us a lot
about the time we're in. It's about the bees. Yes. I want to put you on the spot to do the bit, but I can't do the bit. Can you tell us
a little bit about the bees. You're kind of asking me to be-- [Inaudible] Okay. It actually it's in one of these news
stories, right? I mean, you found it as Oh yeah, there was a woman. It was a woman in
Decatur, Georgia, who like heard some buzzing so called the city. And it turns out she
had 120,000 bees living in her ceiling. Yeah. So the bit is all about why I no longer
tweet political stuff at Trump. But it's involves essentially the measurements of different amounts
of bees. Like wha
t because like, the whole, the whole idea of the, the bid is like, I don't
know about you but I feel like if I see five bees, I'm like, there's a lot of bees here. Maybe we
should do something about our big problem. You know, it's just about American not noticing that
we're slowly sliding into a fascist oligarchy. It's been on my mind in so many different
ways. You know, I read the statistics at the beginning of every COVID calls. I mean,
it's very powerful, just the numbers. It is, but it'
s also it's like the it's, it's
like the bees. It's like At what point? Yeah. You know, you remember like, Oh, I remember when it was 100, and then 1000. And
then it was a nine elevens worth of people then. And these different measures were right
now we're halfway to a World War Two. At what point is the outrage, like the bees sort
of bust through the ceiling, and you say, we've really got a problem here. And I and I know many
Americans are saying that, and many people outside of the United
States are saying that to us and
for us, but not enough people somehow. It's crazy. I mean, November 3rd, like that's when
things will seem you know, like, I mean, it's I say November 3rd, and it's regardless of
what happens, that's the that's, that's I think, if even if Trump looses Trump doesn't go away,
Trump still exists. And we were talking about this a little bit on email, like he still is there.
And I do, honestly worry about some version of pitched battles in the streets. Everybody
's
got guns now. And because of these, because of these neural nets, that run social media, we
all live in completely different realities. And so I fear, I fear that there's just going to be
fighting in the streets between people who don't, who are fighting over two totally
different things. Two versions of reality. And that there's still it's kind of back to what
you were saying, before. That you, you and I, I pulled out the same hole that November
4th, we wake up and we kind of just sort
of, we snap back into something that's
more recognizable about the world. I grew up grew up you and I've grown up in
an America that fights over all manner of stupid things. I mean, it's kind of democracy in
action is they argue about every single thing. We slip past that, we come back to some
sort of shared experience with that. Right. And then, what do you think happens
after that, how does repair work? I mean, it's kind of the last thing I want
to ask you. I mean, again, it's like, we'
re gonna need all hands to repair what's been
done in this country in the last four years. Yeah. I also I don't know. I don't know because I
recently, I tweeted during the debates when he was not when he was already decrying the legitimacy
of voting during the debates. I was like, Oh, I tweeted something like, Oh, god like
this is, this is how democracy dies. And the amount of people who responded: Good.
Can't wait. Not soon enough. And I was just like, are these like right wing fascists? A
nd so then I
started just like taking a selection of them and like, what do you think comes after democracy,
like seeing what it was? And the two at least the two people I asked, they were like, hardcore,
crazy left wing. Like they were like imagining pan utopian anarchie. Like, like, what did one like
Lichtenstein? One of them was like, like, 100 Lichtenstein's or something. And I was just like,
Oh, these are like, it's coming from the left. And from the right. It's like this. I can't I ju
st
don't understand it. I don't understand. Like, sure, democracy is slow, and it's inefficient. And
it sucks often, but it's like the best system by far the best system we've got going, like, why
is that the thing that people it's, I'm, haaaaa. No. Well, it's it's, it's, I don't know
where you put the blame. It would be too many causes. But it's like, Americans have
they love to play dress up. They love fantasy. Yep. A lot of people there's been so much
wealth and infrastructure and thing
s that have worked so well for so long that people can tour around these ideas that if you just think
let's blow it all We love him because he doesn't play by any rule. He blows everything up and like
Well, what do you think is left after you blow up? Because he's he's he's the president. Like,
it's not just like play play time anymore. Yeah, it's like it's we're just seeing the results of,
of decades of defunding education. Combined with like, these, these like massive A.I.s that
are just
targeted at our, our, our brains that are like not, not by any, by any
fault of anyone's really just like, kind of like Whoopsie doodles. We
made a bunch of fascists. Crazy. I have to lighten this up before I let you go.
Just so people know, Kurt, and I've done things like 24 hour road trips, where we walk around New
York City with our friend Calvin Johnson for 24 hours. And the conversations kind of do have this
Evan flow right and the ceiling fascism creeping at all, and fart jokes. Have
you been able
to get in in the water? Are you surfing? I was I was we actually spent all month of August
in Ventura, like a couple blocks from the ocean. So I served a whole bunch then, but I just had
knee surgery. So I'm out of the water for three months and just doing physical therapy right
now. But yeah, can't wait, can't wait to get back in there. I mean, I didn't surf for most of
the pandemic, just because I just had a child. It was like had a child, pandemic hit. And then it
was like
, had second child. So it was just like, we were in it and was going crazy. So
that's another thing like add to the pandemic, like pandemic, but then also not
sleeping. And then that was pretty intense. Yeah, yeah, that's Well, the good
news of that is with th recent job, you won't remember any of this. Exactly. It's perfect. Kurt, thanks a lot for coming on COVID calls. Thank you hope I wasn't too dark. No, I mean, I had a comedian to
bring it really down into the depths. I want to thank yo
u for coming on. I want to
remind everybody that you can catch up COVID calls every weekday at five o'clock, and
tomorrow, we're gonna talk to Rebecca Onion, who's a science writer and historian of science for Slate Magazine. So please join
me for that. And Kurt Stay well. Thank you, Scott. Okay, stay healthy, everybody. We'll
see you tomorrow, five o'clock.
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