20 Years Later: Advocacy and Activism – 5/26/22

# # Good evening and welcome, my name is Noah Rauch. I'm the senior vice president for education and public programs here at the 9/11 Memorial & Museum. As we mark the 20th anniversary of the formal end of the rescue, recovery, and relief efforts at Ground Zero, it is my pleasure to welcome you to tonight's program, "20 Years Later: Advocacy and Activism." As always, I'd like to extend a special welcome to our museum members and to those tuning in to our live web broadcast. In the aftermath of 9

/11, unprecedented rescue, recovery, and relief efforts began immediately at the three attack sites: at the Pentagon, outside Shanksville, Pennsylvania, and here, where 1.8 million tons of debris filled what remained of the World Trade Center. Initially, volunteers from around the country came to lend whatever help they could, joining first responders on what became known as "the pile." Steel workers, iron workers, asbestos workers, lighting crews on film sets, chefs, masseuses-- the list goes o

n. And in the weeks after 9/11, this work was formalized and carried out by a variety of departments and agencies. There was no how-to guide on how to do this, and yet people stepped forward, often at the expense of their own safety, their own physical well-being, their own mental well-being, to do what needed to be done. Here at the World Trade Center, this effort lasted nine months, formally ending on May 30, 2002, 20 years ago. These extraordinary efforts, however, as we all know, are still v

ery much with us. Exposure to contaminated air and toxic chemicals created a list, a growing list of health concerns for hundreds of thousands of people in all 50 states who worked at these sites and lived, worked, and went to school nearby. Tens of thousands are sick, and the number of deaths of those registered with 9/11-related illness has exceeded the number of those who were killed on 9/11. Tonight's program will reflect on this work and its ongoing legacy today, as we are joined by three g

uests who have been directly impacted by the lingering effects of the attacks, influencing a fervent commitment to advocacy on behalf of those continuing to suffer from 9/11-related health effects. Bridget Gormley is a writer, director, and producer. She's a daughter of FDNY firefighter William "Billy" Gormley, who died of 9/11-related cancer in 2017. After her father's death, Bridget became more aware of the extent to which health effects, like those her father suffered from, were impacting tho

usands of others who had faced dangerous exposures on and after 9/11. As a result, Bridget became a staunch advocate for the 9/11 community, lobbying in New York and Washington for further coverage and compensation for those continuing to suffer from 9/11-related health effects. Her most recent project as director, "Dust: The Lingering Legacy of 9/11," is a documentary that chronicles a surge in post-9/11-related illnesses and cancers that are turning survivors into victims. She is also a featur

ed speaker in this year's Anniversary in the Schools, our signature education program commemorating the attacks, and you can learn more at 911memorial.org/webinar. Rob Serra is a retired FDNY firefighter. 9/11 was his first day on the job. He was forced to retire early, however, in 2012 because of illnesses caused by his work at Ground Zero. His illnesses and those of his colleagues motivated Rob to become a vocal advocate and organizer in support of the 9/11 Victims' Compensation Fund and the J

ames Zadroga 9/11 Health Compensation Act. In addition, in 2017, following the death of his friend and mentor, FDNY firefighter Ray Pfeifer, Rob helped create the Ray Pfeifer Foundation and is a member of its board of directors, continuing to be an advocate for 9/11 first responders by helping to gather resources for medical needs not covered by insurance. Currently, he's the host of "The Firefighters Podcast with Rob Serra" and has shared his story widely to spread awareness of this issue. Phil

Alvarez retired from the Suffolk County Police Department in 2019 after 32 years, having served 25 years of his career as a detective. Phil is the older brother of retired NYPD bond detective-- squad detective-- Luis Alvarez, who became the face of the 9/11 Victims' Compensation Fund bill that now bears his name, along with NYPD detective James Zadroga and FDNY firefighter Ray Pfeifer, when he testified before a congressional subcommittee meeting a few weeks before he passed away from cancer on

June 29, 2019. Phil accompanied his late brother and many others on their trips to DC. Today, Phil continues his work with this community to ensure that all first responders and victims of 9/11 and their families are taken care of should they become ill. Phil has been a director of 9/11 outreach and education for a 9/11 law firm, and continues to advocate for 9/11 victims. We'd like to sincerely thank Bridget, Rob, and Phil for their work and for sharing their time and their insights with us th

is evening. And finally, we invite you to join us in person for a special ceremony commemorating the 20th anniversary of the end of the rescue, recovery, and relief efforts, this Monday, May 30, at 9:30 a.m. on the 9/11 Memorial Glade. For those unable to attend, the ceremony will be streamed live at 911memorial.org/watch, and for more information, visit 911memorial.org/may30. So without further ado, please join me in welcoming our speakers in conversation with executive vice president and deput

y director for museum programs Cliff Chanin. (applause) >> CHANIN: Thank you, Noah, and welcome, everybody. You know, it just really strikes me. We marked in September the 20th anniversary of the attack itself. And this upcoming day, Monday, 20th anniversary of the end of that nine-month cleanup period is really, somehow, that event in slow motion, if you will. It took so much time and effort for the site to be emptied, for the recovery of as many remains as possible, and then initially, a burst

of illnesses, but then really, over time-- 20 years now-- people discovering that the service that they gave on that day compromised their health and their lives, and so each of the three of you have been intimately touched by those consequences. And I do want to acknowledge that. And thank you all for being here. You all are members of the 9/11 community in one way or another, and you've all dedicated so much of your time and your passion to making sure that community is cared for. How do you

each sort of think about that community and your place in it? You didn't necessarily all come to it at the same time, but you were all connected to people who were part of that. So let me start with you, Bridget, and, and, you know, we'll talk about your film, and that's certainly a way that your connection is reflected, but in personal terms, you know. When did you realize just how much this was going to take of your time, and the story of your becoming, really, such an active member of this co

mmunity? >> GORMLEY: I had no idea I was going to get sucked into this. Rob calls it accidental activism, and I think that's the perfect term for this, because this is not a community anybody really wants to be part of. It's something you kind of, it's like a vortex. It sucks you in, and once you are sucked in, that's it. You're part of it, for better or worse. I mean, the circumstances that brought me to it were not great. Any of us, really. But having said that, I mean, I have this community o

f people now that are rock-solid and who I can depend on for anything, and I met some of the best people. I have lifelong friends now, so I think, you know, the world could take a page from the book of the 9/11 community, and the sense of community, and how we, like, look out for each other. Um, so, yeah, I wasn't looking for it by any means, but I'm happy I found it. >> CHANIN: Phil, you, too, through your brother, I guess, initially. >> ALVAREZ: Yeah. Well, thanks for having me, also, but Brid

get's absolutely right. When I was asked to be here this evening, I was a little nervous, and then they said, "Oh, it's Bridget and Rob gonna be with you," and I said, you know, these are friends, and she's absolutely right. It's a community that you don't want to be part of, but it sucks you right in-- but yes. I made a promise to my brother that I would finish what he started, and that's what kinda sucked me in. He, to the very end, was very adamant about finding the victims, letting them know

they were victims. He says, "People are going to continue to get sick." It just so happened I was retiring around that time to spend time with him. He was sick for three years, and he was getting on with quite a bit of chemo at that point, so I wanted to spend a little time with him, and we got to talk a lot, and he wasn't a man of many words, but he just wanted to get that message out. So yeah, I got sucked into him by telling him I would continue what he started. >> CHANIN: Rob, I should ment

ion, as you, you know, your service, as we all heard, you'd just come out of the Fire Academy, and your first day in the field was 9/11. And I do want the audience to know that Rob was kind enough to record an oral history of his experience on 9/11 for the museum, and we've been using excerpts from that interview when we do programs for the probie classes of firefighters. So, you know, what's a better example of what service requires than first day on the job, and 9/11 hits? You were brought her

e to begin the rescue and recovery effort. Were you aware of what the risks were at that point? What was, what was that first impact of where you were and what you were seeing as a brand-new firefighter? >> SERRA: We really weren't aware of the health risk. I could see that there was a literal risk to my well-being from seeing the towers on fire from the bridge. But we had no idea of the... Fallout, I guess, is the proper word, but we had no idea that it was going to be this bad. But once, once

the buildings came down, and we started breathing it and tasting it, and, and I would say probably, not on my way there, but once I was there for a few hours, I knew something was going to be, uh... That it was going to be bad. >> CHANIN: Yeah. >> SERRA: Um, as I've said before, my nose started bleeding, you know, after an hour being there, and it bled so much that I passed out. So my health problems started that day. You know, it bled every day for, like, two years after that, until I had surge

ry, so... Yeah, I, I mean, initially, I didn't think... You know, we weren't thinking about our health at that point, but once I was there and I saw what was going on, it definitely, definitely occurred to me. >> CHANIN: What was, you know, the awareness among the people who were there working that pile of what the risks were, as they were undertaking these hoped-for rescue and then recovery operations? >> SERRA: I don't... You're not thinking about that. You're in the zone. Same thing at a, at

a fire, you know? I mean, you're aware of not putting yourself into a dangerous situation, but you're really just focused on saving someone or, or doing your job. So that, that doesn't enter your mind at that point. It entered my mind because I was sitting in a medical tent, being tended to, you know? But I don't think any of the brothers or sisters were thinking about that at that point. >> CHANIN: You know, there's been so much effort to get people to register for the health program, to become

involved in whatever they need to enroll in in order to get the support that they need. And yet, not everybody has been part of this. Is this a failure of information? Is this some kind of resistance, that people are suspicious? I mean, I, the number that I keep reading about, people who came to help over the course of this period of time, is 400,000 people, and little more than a quarter of them are actually registered in these programs, so that's a hard thing to understand because of how much

effort went into trying to get the support programs passed by Congress, how difficult that was. Phil, what... You, you've worked with people who could be eligible for this. What's the resistance, or what's the hesitation like? >> ALVAREZ: I used to, I used to think about, okay, so, so the first responders, the firemen, the police officers. The union workers. They're trying to be supermen, superwomen. They're trained to go in, and my brother even said it, going back to that last question, "Even

if they told us what we were breathing was bad, none of us would have walked away." That, that was their job. None of the brothers, none of the sisters would have walked away from that. They knew what they were there for, and they were going to do it anyway. So with that kind of mentality, years later, I think, first of all, for first responders, very hard to admit they're sick. Very hard to get them to go to the doctor, to go to the World Trade Center Health Program to get their illnesses certi

fied. Then if they do do that, it's very hard for them to go get signed up for the Victims' Compensation Fund, because it's, "Hey, we don't want that money, leave it for the families, that need it." Not realizing that their families are the ones that need it. So, I think there's plenty of information out there. I mean, you can Google "9/11," you're going to get probably nine, 9,000 places you can go, and 9,000 phone numbers you can call. I think human beings don't like facing sickness. They don'

t like admitting weakness, and especially the people that were here. They don't want to say, "I got sick from it," because now I'm not Superman anymore. (murmurs) >> CHANIN: Bridget-- yeah, Bridget, you know, you lived this with your dad. And I'm wondering what the thoughts you're hearing from Phil and Rob reflect through your own story. What do they resonate with? >> GORMLEY: I think they're absolutely right. A lot of this is, it's a lot of survivor's guilt. There's a lot of views of blood mone

y. With responders, at least, there's kind of the sense of, it's... You don't want to jinx it, you don't want to do this. But, you know, everybody got sick later on. So I think even my father, he didn't really want to discuss this until towards the end of his life. And that's when he finally opened up about it, and it took a lot of pressure from my mother for him to pursue this. You know, she used the kids, like, "Think of your kids, think of your kids," and that's what we say, I think, right? W

hen you speak to these people, you have to say, "Think of the kids," a lot? >> ALVAREZ: Mm-hmm. >> GORMLEY: Because they're the ones that are ultimately going to be affected, too, right? They're going to be the ones that lose a parent, they're going to be the ones that are going to have to go out into the world... >> CHANIN: Right. >> GORMLEY: ...without them. But yeah, survivor's guilt, and then as far as residents go, I mean, they don't even think that they're entitled to this. They think this

is only for responders, and that's not the case at all-- it's for everybody, students, workers, um, who else am I... Candlestick makers, the bread makers. Yeah, it's for everybody. >> ALVAREZ: Residents. >> GORMLEY: Residents, yeah, everybody. >> ALVAREZ: I mean, how many people lived south of Canal Street in Manhattan back 20 years? >> CHANIN: Yeah. >> ALVAREZ: And don't even realize they're entitled to the benefits? >> GORMLEY: Or missed out on it already, 'cause they passed away, and they ju

st didn't even know it was something they had access to. >> CHANIN: Yeah. >> GORMLEY: You know? So it's a shame, in that sense, but... >> CHANIN: Yeah, that's, that's, uh, you know, you mentioned the families, and that may be a key, but... You know, I don't want to pry, but it, it seems important to talk about the impact... >> GORMLEY: Of course. >> CHANIN: ...of these kinds of illnesses within families, as well, so maybe I can ask each of you to sort of, you know, reflect on that, starting with

Bridget... >> GORMLEY: Yeah, absolutely, so, you know, in a lot of cases with people that get sick and pass away from these 9/11 illnesses, again, from my perspective, as the responder family, the person you are losing is the breadwinner. They are the foundation. So that's kind of ripped out from under you suddenly and unexpectedly, and very quickly. How long-- when was your brother diagnosed? How long did it take? >> ALVAREZ: 2015. >> GORMLEY: 2015, so okay. So my dad was diagnosed in 2017, an

d then passed away in 2018. >> CHANIN: Hm. >> GORMLEY: It burned through him in six months, which is the case with these cancers, too, because you see a lot, they're exotic, they're... Operate according to a different set of norms than we're used to. So it's quick, it's sudden, so you're sitting there and you don't know, you're, like, you know, it's, you don't know what to do. And when somebody passes away in the family, it's a communal... It's, trauma is shared by the family, it's just not the

individual, so, I mean... That's why it's important to have that conversation about the extension of the person that is passing away, because one person's dying, but it's affecting maybe five or six other people, you know, so... >> CHANIN: Right-- Phil? >> ALVAREZ: Same, you're not supposed to get that call from your 53-year-old brother that, "I got stage four cancer." I mean, he's your little brother, and he's got, he's the youngest boy in the family, and he's got three young sons, and, you kno

w, and... It's just a wake-up call you don't want. And when I got that call from my brother, and I selfishly... My son was getting married the next month, and he said stage four, and I selfishly said a prayer to myself, like, "Oh, God, let him make Michael's wedding next month." He ended up living three years. He died in 2019, and then there's this other guilt. We talk about this 9/11 community. But it's never lost on me how lucky I am. And how lucky my family is. Because, you know, this buildin

g that we're standing in, 3,000 families lost their breadwinner, lost their loved ones... (snaps): Like that. Without a phone call. I got to hang out with my brother for three years. I got to be at his bedside for 11 days in hospice. I got to go down to Washington with him. So, so you feel guilty when your friends in this community, knowing that so many people out there lost loved ones immediately, and didn't have the time to prepare, like our families. And Bridget's right, it does go fast. Thes

e cancers, I mean, people always... You know, they have that picture of my brother next to the bomb squad truck, where he's all muscular, and then you got the picture in Washington, DC. And I remember somebody in DC coming up to me right after my brother spoke, and he said, "Boy, your father did such a good job up there." >> CHANIN: Hm. >> ALVAREZ: And I said, "Well, that's my little brother." But he had lost 80 pounds and... Um... For the family, the fact that these advocates, John Feal, invite

d him to go down to DC to testify, he was given this runway to take off from. How many of us get to the end of our lives, and we want to talk about something that's important to us, and you don't get to say it. >> CHANIN: Yeah. >> ALVAREZ: My brother not only got to say it, but it seemed like the world stopped and listened, and all he wanted to say was, "People are still gonna get sick. People need this compensation." We talk about numbers, the 400,000. To give you, you know, the NYPD numbers, 2

3 officers that died instantly when the towers fell. Of course, the FDNY, 343. The Port Authority lost 37 officers. These are small groups compared to the 3,000 people that died. My brother was the 222nd NYPD officer to die of a 9/11 illness. Think about that, and that was three years ago. And I think we have a good month if a week goes by and we don't have another victim. That's a good month, if, if a week goes by and we don't hear of a fireman or a police officer or... I was talking to Bridget

earlier out here, somebody in Colorado who responded to Ground Zero, you know, it's in, like, the "Sun Times" in Arizona, just died. We hear that every week. It's still going. So for my family, the impact my brother was able to have, the opportunities he was given to be with this group down in Washington, DC, trying to get the Victims' Compensation Fund passed, was the greatest blessing, especially for my mother. She felt that if she had to lose a son, or if I had to lose my brother, what bette

r way than doing it for other people? >> CHANIN: Yeah. Rob, you're living with the impacts on your own health from your service. Not easy. >> SERRA: No. (clears throat) Phil said something that made me think a bit about Lou. I've heard you say that before, about how people, he actually got people to listen to him towards the end of his life, and I think that's... That's all of our motivation for those of us who are dealing with the illnesses, is that as long as people are going to listen, we're

going to keep talking, right? That's why, that's why I keep going, because people keep asking the questions, which is a good thing, right? We say, "Never forget," well, then, when somebody calls you to talk about it, at least I feel obligated to, because... Never forget, right? We have to... If we don't tell our stories, then people are never gonna hear it. I happen to be on both sides of it. My wife's father was killed on 9/11, so I have both sides in my family, so it's, I... It's like extra mo

tivation for me to help the people who are still sick, because it's kind of paying tribute to those that we were trying to save, right? So it's, it's hard, but... At least my kids, you know, they, they don't really know what it's like to have a healthy father. I've never... They were so young when I, when I started dealing with all this, that they never really had, you know, the typical dad to go out and play catch, or do all those other things with, but they get to see me do stuff like this and

they get to see me stick up for myself and my friends, so it affords me that opportunity. So that's, that's really my motivation. >> CHANIN: You know, it's really striking, reading the documentation on the illnesses. And there was a spike initially. But one of the things that's so striking about it is, you know, we're 20 years later, and there are people who are still going to be sick from this. In other words, the impact of this is not final, and the full extent of it has not been told. So thi

s is essentially a shadow that's going to be cast over people through the length of their lives, whether or not they actually do get sick from this. Is that... You know, within the community, I'm sure there are people who are not yet sick, or waiting to see whether they will be sick. What is that part of the dynamic like, if you can sort of get that? >> SERRA: It's... It's what's in the back of all of our minds, you know? There's-- I don't think any of us think we're going to get out of this wit

hout getting cancer, unless we die of something else first. I think that's just... Right? I don't know about you guys, but that, with the people you speak to, but with firefighters who were there, that's just... Whether you admit it or not, that's what you're thinking. >> GORMLEY: Yeah, it's definitely a looming cloud, to say the least. You speak to a lot of people, that's what they always say. They're, like, "I survived the day, but now I'm waiting to get cancer." It's not, it's... For a lot of

people, it's not if, but when, right? And the unfortunate thing with this, too, is that these cancers take time to metastasize and develop. And this is the time frame it is, ten to 20 years. So that's why we're seeing it all now. And then the other thing, too, even for the people that had nothing to do with 9/11, no involvement, like, think of, like, a little baby that lived in Battery Park City. Kids, an infant, who's now 20. And we're seeing kids that went to Stuyvesant High School, they're g

etting breast cancer, and prostate cancer, and they're 35, 30-- it's insane. So it's multi-generational in that sense. And there's a lot of layers to this, it's very nuanced. >> CHANIN: Yeah. >> GORMLEY: But, um... >> ALVAREZ: Yup, it's a... If anybody has known somebody in your family, or, or a friend who has gone through cancer and is now in remission, and you speak to that person, and it's always in the back of their mind. "I'm, I'm thanking God that it's in remission and I'm well," but the t

hought is, "When is it going to come back?" And that, that's just a regular person with cancer. Now, if you're a 9/11 victim, and you know you were breathing these toxins in, that's-- and "shadow" is a perfect word. I never heard that before. Great word that you used, it's, it's got to be, and these are people that are getting cancer. Some of them, thank God, are in remission. But science has been telling us in the 9/11 community and speaking that we're not even started yet. The lung cancers, th

ey tell us 20 years is when they show up-- 20 years. Well, guess what year it is, guys? It's the 20th year. Talking to my friend John Feal the other day, he said, "Next ten, 20 years, we're going to be surprised." And that's that keeps me motivated is, and I think that's what kept my brother motivated, more so. He went to, to the best cancer hospital in the world, Memorial Sloan Kettering-- arguably. He did not take a dime out of his pocket, because he was covered. But it made him so angry when

somebody whispered in his ear that the fund was running out of money. And that was the motivation that he needed, because he saw what it did for him and his family. He was able to not leave his family bankrupt, or not have to make a decision whether to get a chemo treatment or pay this month's mortgage. Um... And that's what's kept him motivating to get that. I think that's what motivates us and the activists in the 9/11 community to keep having these discussions, because, unfortunately, the bad

news is, people are going to continue to get sick. There's a reason the bill was extended through the year 2090. There's a reason the actuaries, with their calculators and their computers, figured out, "Okay, "we're going to permanently fund the Victims' Compensation Fund through the year 2090," and the reason is this. They figured that people were going to continue to get sick, and they figured that's the latest somebody could be alive that was down there. Arguably, yeah. >> CHANIN: You know i

t's, it's... You think back, and, and you were all involved in going to Washington to make the case. But, you know, thinking back about it, the difficulties you had, the fact that it wasn't a slam dunk, that it wasn't a no-brainer, that it actually had to be fought for, and that it had to be renewed, so it wasn't just one fight. It was repeated fights to get the money. I mean, you know, we know that our political system is not in peak health at the moment, but... You know, how do you explain tha

t? 'Cause that still seems very mysterious and very troubling to me. >> GORMLEY: It's self-evident, no? I mean... >> CHANIN: Yeah. >> GORMLEY: I don't know. I'm just kind of a pessimist these days, especially after that. I don't know, it's, like, super-frustrating, because you think this is the one thing everybody can agree on, this is the one thing we can all-- the guys that went to 9/11, the victims of 9/11, the people that, you know, downtown Manhattan, battle zone, war zone, blah, blah, blah

, blah, blah. These are the people that have to come, right? You think you'll take care of them, and then you get there, and you're, like... (clicks tongue) No, get out of here. And the biggest issue, I think, was that people are so disconnected from it. People think it was a New York issue. "Let New York deal with it. New York was attacked." It's nonsense, you know, you have people-- we said it earlier-- that came from all over the country that came to New York to help. We had Miami, Colorado,

Task Force 1, Task Force 2, wherever they came from, they all came here. And they spent quite a bit of time here. And they all got sick. So when you go to these congresspeople's office and they say it's a New York problem-- or that's more or less what they are saying, in so many words-- you pull out your piece of paper, and you're, like, "Oh, well, you have, you know, 24 people in your district that went to Ground Zero," and then that shuts them up, and you, like, gotta shame them. But, I mean,

I don't know, it's Washington. Right, John, that's Washington? (chuckles): I don't know what to say. >> CHANIN: It's troubling that that is such an obvious comment. >> GORMLEY: Yeah, sorry to be so facetious about it. >> SERRA: Considering we were lobbying without a checkbook, I think we did pretty well. >> GORMLEY: Oh, yeah, that's true, right? Yeah, yeah. >> ALVAREZ: See, I tend to be an optimist, but I totally agree. I, you know, I'm... And I'll be the first one to tell you, I'm, we're fortun

ate-- Lou Alvarez was fortunate, because he was at the end of many years of people going down there, many years that had to keep going back to, to... You know, yeah, they showed his face because he was 80 pounds from a strapping guy that he used to be. But, you know, I always give credit to the people that were there way before Lou Alvarez, but I'm an optimist, especially in this political climate that we find ourselves in this country. What was done there, we were able to take people from both

sides of the aisle. And as hard as it was, yeah, we had to-- excuse my language-- bust some chops down there. And certainly-- and I'm being liberal when I say "me," because I wasn't involved in that-- these guys were knocking on their doors and sitting in their hallways. And, you know, it was basically what I always describe, guerrilla activism, knocking on doors, and if you saw this group, and Rob in a wheelchair and friends wearing oxygen tank. My brother, 80 pounds, walking these halls. I mea

n, it was a shame that's what it took, but the side of me that I am grateful for is, at the end, we got people on both sides of the aisle to meet in the middle and get the bill signed. And, um, as hard as it was, I think it's a lesson that this country needs to remember. That when we come together, no matter what our political, religious, race, what our beliefs are, when we work together for the good of humans, we can get things done, and we need to do that more often. There's just no doubt abou

t it. You know, we just had a little incident, a little incident in Texas, which I can't even wrap my head around and, and... It reminds me, like, hey, we gotta come together real quick, 'cause people are dying, and now children are dying. And if we don't come together, people are going to continue to die, and you're going to have families that have lost loved ones for no reason. >> CHANIN: You know, I wonder if, in terms of your visits to Washington and the experiences of that, is there-- maybe

start with you, Rob. Is there a story that you could tell us that sort of crystallizes either the difficulty or the achievement, or, like, a moment where something changed and you were witness to something where it either gave you hope, or it sent you thinking, like, how the hell does this happen? >> SERRA: Uh, there's quite a few. >> CHANIN: I would imagine. >> SERRA: Um... The one I shared with Bridget last week I'll share. I think that was probably the most dark moment. I had watched this co

ngressmember's campaign video when he first ran, and he spoke about 9/11 being his call to service, and it made him join the military, and all the happy stuff he said. And then we show up to his office for a meeting and he won't see us, and the door to his actual... You know, usually these offices, there's, like, two or three rooms, and the door to his actual office is open, and I could see there's a six-foot-long poster of Ground Zero that is so zoomed in I could pick out people that I knew in

the picture. There were hundreds of first responders. And so this guy had a six-foot-long picture of Ground Zero, and there were ten 9/11 first responders in his office, and he wouldn't meet with us and he wouldn't co-sponsor the bill. He ended up doing it, but... That's pretty much emblematic. That's what we were dealing with, because you, you see it. I mean, in my book that I carried around, which is now here, the book of shame, is all the, all the social media posts from these politicians eve

ry 9/11, every campaign season, about, you know, "Never forget," and, "God bless our heroes," and, and, you know, propping us up, you know, for their own benefit, and then when it comes time to help the same people that you're tweeting about, you won't even meet with them. >> GORMLEY: See what I mean? It's pessimism. (laughs) >> CHANIN: Well, tell us a story where maybe the pessimism isn't the conclusion. >> GORMLEY: Oh, no, I'm just being, you know... (all laughing) No, but it's just, I don't k

now. >> CHANIN: It did-- I mean, Phil's right, it did happen in the end. >> GORMLEY: It happened, yeah, but it took a little browbeating. >> CHANIN: It doesn't, it doesn't happen without you guys being there, yeah. >> ALVAREZ: And again, I wasn't there for 16 years. I wasn't there, you know, the whole time, and I certainly, now, since my brother has passed, and working within the 9/11 community, I've learned the history of what it took to get to that day where people came together from both side

s of the aisle, so... But I just wanted to point that out, because people forget that sometimes, that, you know, government can work together. >> CHANIN: Yeah. >> ALVAREZ: They can work together and... And that's what we elect them for. To help us, to help what we need. And they showed they could do it. And they need to show it a few more times, I think. >> CHANIN: You know, we talk about various aspects of the 9/11 story, and many times, it comes exactly to that. You know, it shows if you work

together, you can get things done because there's a bigger purpose here. And yet it's strange that we keep having to remind ourselves of that fact, because for whatever reason, the natural instinct is not-- in spite of the heroism and the things that might be said publicly-- it's not to actually just put everything aside and get the work done. So, this is an extraordinary, you know, example of that, and... I guess the question is, you know, 9/11 was an event, it lasted 102 minutes, and yet, 20 y

ears later, the end is not even in sight of 9/11, based on what you're saying, so, you know, is there a younger generation-- Bridget, I guess you would be an example of that-- of people who are picking this up? Are you, you know, across different-- in terms of backgrounds of folks who've been affected-- different professions, different parts of the country, different points of view, is this, is this still building in that way? >> GORMLEY: It's strange, though, I think I'm, like, one of the last.

.. I was born in '91, so I think I'm one of the last... 9/11 happened when I was, like, ten or 11. I think I was kind of the last generation that had a, like, really knew what was going on. Still didn't know what was going on, but had an idea, remember it very vividly. You speak to anybody who's even a couple of years younger than me, they don't remember this, you know, and... You have a whole generation of people that have gone to fight in a war that they weren't, they were born after-- their l

ife started 2001, 2002, and they went to Afghanistan, Iraq, every... This was a genesis, right? Arguably? So they don't even... They weren't even around for a war they're fighting in, which blows my mind. And then the other thing, too, now is that-- we were talking about this earlier-- there's probably 75 million children, people that were born after 9/11 in America. And kind of, I suddenly feel I'm aging myself suddenly, you know what I mean? I just, it's interesting to think of it in this sens

e, because this is a whole generation that has to be educated about this. I lived through it, I experienced it personally, as these guys did, but for 75 million people, that's not the case, you know? So it's... I haven't met... I meet a few of them. And to them, it's a little bit more... It's a historical event-- it's something that I lived through, but it's more of a historical event that they'll read about in their textbooks now, so... >> SERRA: But I think that's what made it more difficult,

is the fact that we were so far removed from the actual event that the people we were having meetings with barely even remember what happened. They were, you know, 22-year-old interns, and they're... >> GORMLEY: Oh, the staff? >> SERRA: Yeah, so... >> GORMLEY: The congressional staff, the little kids. They were, like, 17, 18. >> SERRA: That's what... It made it harder, because you know, you're educating them on what happened before even getting into your story, so... >> ALVAREZ: Yeah, I agree. I

think, and even my generation-- I'm, I'm going to be 60 September 5, I was born in '62. It's been so long that unless you are connected to it by a family member getting sick, a friend got sick, or you lost somebody that day or in following days, you don't-- it becomes a historical event. My, my nephew, he goes to school up at Bentley in Massachusetts, and he called me in September all excited and he sends me pictures of his history book, and it's Jon Stewart and my brother in the history book,

and I was, like, "Look at that, we made the history book." I sent it out to a few of my friends, and, and said, "Wow, it's history," but it's not something they're thinking about every day. Government is not thinking about 9/11 every day. Even though we have shown them that it's a national problem. Talking about, like, Task Force 1. One of the, one of the, our friends that voted no on the bill, and I'm not going to name names or states, but I know you would. >> GORMLEY: There's only two. >> ALVA

REZ: But, their Task Force 1, I think it was 28 members came down. And here we are, 20 years later, and 18 of them got cancer. 18 of them got cancer, and they're from the Midwest, and their guy was the guy that says, "That's a New York problem." Well, when your state's Task Force 1 is decimated by 9/11 cancer, guess what. You better do some work in Washington, because it's not a New York problem. It affects every state. It's going to get to the point, people retiring in Florida, the Midwest, the

West Coast... I've talked to people everywhere, talked to international people, people in South America. You know, I speak Spanish, and they said, "Oh, yeah, I was the janitor," and they're living in South America somewhere and they're getting sick now. Think about that. But to many people now, like you said, 75 million, it's a historical event. >> CHANIN: Historical event. Let me ask, particularly you two, since you were in first responder services, but, Bridget, I think you may have a view of

this, as well. I mean, what do you think the young generation coming into service needs to know about both 9/11, but also the costs and the price that was paid after 9/11 because of the service that was the extension of that attack, but wasn't necessarily as dramatic in the moment? What do they, what do they need to understand about what they're being asked to do or what their jobs require? Rob? >> SERRA: Well... I was speaking to you earlier. I was in a similar situation when I was going throu

gh the academy. We had the New York Telephone Company fire in '75, I believe, and about 700 members who responded to that fire all died of cancer within 29 years, so we already sort of experienced this on a smaller scale, and that's something we learned about in the academy and something we continue to pass on. But I think they're doing a great job within the FDNY of, of teaching what happened that day, the sacrifices that day, the memories of the members are being passed along-- I'll share a gr

eat story. I went to... My company had a party last week, Squad 18, and a son of one of our members who died on 9/11 is now on the job. He looks exactly like his father, big muscles. He's got the mustache. And when I was leaving, I don't really know him, you know, I didn't, I didn't work with his dad. Bar got crowded, and as I'm leaving, I say goodbye and I get about two steps, and, you know, I walk with a cane and I have trouble getting through crowds, and he just taps me on the shoulder, he go

es, "Don't worry, I'm going to get you out of here," and he just walked in front of me, got me outside, gave me a hug, and left. Again, that's... >> CHANIN: Yeah. >> SERRA: That's the sort of thing that, that's... That we love about the FDNY, but that's the sort of thing that's getting passed on, and this, I can only think of how proud his father would have been. So I think they're doing a great job. >> CHANIN: You know, as of the last probie class, there were 67 legacies... >> SERRA AND ALVAREZ

: Yeah. >> CHANIN: ...by 9/11 firefighters... >> SERRA: They know the dangers, right? They know, they know the fallout. There's, there's legacies of, of people like Rob, whose, whose fathers died of 9/11 illnesses. Terrence Pfeifer is on the job now, so, you know... >> ALVAREZ: Same, same thing with NYPD. I think they're doing a great job. I think most city agencies realized from 9/11 that they needed to equip their people with, uh... They needed to think about 9/11 scenarios. My son's a rookie

police officer. He wears his, his uncle's badge, so that's all the motivation he needs. But he's, he's... This is his third year as a police officer, and he's proud to... And I think the legacy and the memories, like in the fire department, the NYPD, the blue family, does an incredible job, like the FDNY does, of making sure your loved one is never forgotten. But, more importantly, they look at how line-of-duty deaths occur, and they make sure they do everything-- training, equipment-- in their

best way to have that not happen again. Um... So, I agree that they're, they're doing a good job. >> CHANIN: Bridget, you're a FDNY kid. Um, one of... There were 800 kids who lost a father on 9/11, and I don't know how many more hundreds in the years since. >> GORMLEY: Probably comparable, I would imagine. >> CHANIN: Probably a comparable number, sure. In your generation of NY, of FDNY kids, I mean, how do you all think about this, talk about this? Some of you are joining the force, the departme

nt... >> GORMLEY: There's quite a few of them, yeah. I know, of those 67, I probably know a good chunk of them. It attracts a certain type of person, and you can see that it runs in the family when they go in. They're well aware of the risk, they've lived the risk, and they still go, and it's kind of... Remember that thing, that idea we were talking about earlier, this community that we're part of, that's the community you're part of, so that you feel very safe. I can assure you you're all in go

od hands. But with... You remember "Saving Private Ryan"? The end, when Tom Hanks dies and he tells Matt Damon, "Earn it"? >> CHANIN: Yeah. >> GORMLEY: I think we kind of have that in our head. You know, like, they're, they passed away. So now we have to carry the torch in some way, shape, or form, you know? Like, there's a reason I didn't join the force. You don't want me going into a building and dragging you out. I'm not the person, but I'll do it my own way, you know, so... >> ALVAREZ: But m

ost legacies that I've met, and you meet a lot in the 9/11 community, and my son being a rookie cop, and, and I know a few firemen's kids that are now on, most of them want to earn it. >> GORMLEY: Yes. >> ALVAREZ: They don't want... They want to put their head down and do the job. They don't want anything because of what happened 20 years ago. They don't want anything from who their mother or father was. They want to earn it, and, like Bridget said, I think it's... They've lived that life, and..

. You know, my son, I was a... I was 32 years a police officer. He watched his uncle be a police officer. And it wasn't till he died, and he saw the comradesh... Say it for me-- the camaraderie? >> GORMLEY: There you go. >> ALVAREZ: Amongst... Amongst the NYPD, and how they came to my family and they drove us, and they asked what we could do for us, and, and that, that feeling of, of a larger family, um, that attracted him to the job, even though his father was a police officer, and his uncle wa

s a police officer. It was, like, "Wow," you know, "I can do this and have a big family around to support," you know, that led us to the job. And what people don't see, you know, the last few years, with the police department, especially-- and my brother said it in his speech-- you know, it didn't matter the religion, the color... We were all part of showing the world that we would not back down to terrorism. And collectively, and everybody that set foot on these hallowed grounds where we are to

day was about that. It wasn't about, you know, "Well, I'm a cop," "I'm a fireman," "I'm a union worker." "I'm a..." They were all part of working together to make a bad thing a better thing. To recover from a real bad thing. And I think these kids want to earn that. >> CHANIN: Yeah, yeah. >> SERRA: But I think that brings it back to your first question of the night, of why it's so difficult to get people to sign up for the program. It's that exact attitude. It's... You want to be the helper, you

don't want to feel like you need help, and I think that's... That's probably our number-one problem, is getting the helpers to ask for help. >> CHANIN: Incredible. Let's see if we have any questions from the audience. Yeah-- David. >> MAN (off mic): My name's David Margolis. I documented the recovery and cleanup effort with the GBS force, and for the exact reason... (on mic): ...that you guys are talking about, I went to the Mount Sinai Hospital from 2003. I, I had the sinusitis, all the 9/11 u

biquitous cough. And in 2013, I went there in October and I took a blood test, and they said, "David, you gotta come back." And I said, "What's the matter?" They said, "Well, your blood count, "the white blood cells are 85,000-- you have leukemia, and it's 9/11-related." So, the points that you're making are very, very important that, because I signed up, and I got tested on a regular basis, and I still get tested every three months and my, my cancer levels are very low, which brings an another

entire point, that, simultaneously I was going to another doctor, who took an alternative approach. So I now have nine years of leukemia, but I am doing better than about 99%. Why? Because they're looking at other situations that nobody is looking at. And that's the alternative viewpoint. I take about 100 supplements a day, and in there are anti-cancer type of supplements that without a doubt have worked. 'Cause why do you have the same people who have leukemia, like me, and they morphed into a

lymphoma, and I am able to keep my leukemia not in remission, but managed state? So we really need to talk. And Phil, we need to speak about this. And this-- thank God this forum is here, because I've been bottled up for years. You know, not being able to express my recovery, which could be used for so much, so... And I funded this myself. I went to another doctor, I pay out of pocket. It's about $400 every time I go. When I come here, I get-- uh, Mount Sinai-- it's three vials. When I go to the

alternative doctor, it's 29 to 31 vials, and they really check it. So, I would love to work with you guys. >> ALVAREZ: I think the important thing, and what we try to do, is that you went. And that's what we try to do, we try to get the message out. Go to the World Trade Center Health Program. >> MAN: Right. >> ALVAREZ: Get checked out. Get-- see the doctors, and you make a good point. 2013, you went. You signed up. >> MAN: Right. >> ALVAREZ: And that's all we're trying to get. >> MAN: But it h

as to go beyond that point. It has to go beyond that, because 4,000 people now have cancer! >> ALVAREZ: None of us are doctors here, so... I agree. >> MAN: I'm sorry, no, 10,000 to 15,000, right, John? That have cancer now, and we've lost close to 4,000 of 9/11-related cancers. >> MAN 2 (off mic): Can I take his question? >> CHANIN: Why not? >> MAN 2: Okay, one, the obvious, everybody's DNA's different. You're responding to a different medicine. (on mic): Really, I need this? (laughter) >> ALVAR

EZ: Absolutely not. >> CHANIN: We want to record it. >> MAN 2: For one thing, Phil can't do anything, it's NIOSH, and NIOSH does not accept alternative medicine. That's the way the bill was written in 2010 when the bill was passed the first time around. Now, if you were to start your own foundation and offer alternative medicine to the 9/11 community, you would probably make a killing. But if you're in the World Trade Center Health Program, which follows the guidelines of NIOSH, who follows the

guidelines of the way Congress wrote the bill, you're just not getting alternative medicine ever in the bill-- it would take an amendment. And right now, we can't get Congress even to talk about anything other than gun control right now, so... You're alive-- be fucking happy. >> MAN 1: I'm alive because I've also done the work. >> CHANIN: Right. >> MAN 1: The work is, I take the supplements, so I'm just saying that maybe... And John obviously knows this better than I do, but maybe we can look at

some other ways, and maybe change something. >> MAN 2: Petition the Scientific Technical Advisory Committee. That's how you gotta go about doing it. >> CHANIN: Let me see if there's another question from the floor-- Lauren. Thank you. >> ALVAREZ: Thanks, David. >> WOMAN: I had a question for Bridget. Now that you've done this amazing documentary, what's, you know, your goal for the documentary of who sees it, and also, what's your next step? >> GORMLEY: I want to sell it. >> CHANIN: So tell, te

ll us... Give us a little rundown on the film. >> GORMLEY: Rundown on the film. >> CHANIN: Yeah. >> GORMLEY: So, my father passed away in 2018-- excuse me, 2017. And I had no idea this was even an issue. I had no idea this was as bad as it was. I knew people were getting sick, I just had no idea how bad it was. And if I didn't know, a lot of other people didn't know. So, like I said before, I was not going to be joining the FDNY, just because I know my own limitations. So I, um, told a story and

I got a camera and I kind of followed a bunch of the people, and I followed John, he invited me down to D.C., and I saw it firsthand. And it just so happens, as I met John, they cut funding. So I was telling survivor, or stories of people who were sick, and then I saw what was actually happening in D.C. So I kind of wove it together and... Gave you a-- you'll see it soon, hopefully. >> CHANIN: It's called "Dust." >> GORMLEY: It's called "Dust," yes. >> CHANIN: It's called "Dust," so be on the l

ookout. >> ALVAREZ: Yeah, I want to go to the Academy Awards. >> GORMLEY: Oh, that's what they all say. Everyone's invited. (chuckling) >> CHANIN: I think everybody here wants to go... >> GORMLEY: You all showed up, you're coming. (laughter) >> CHANIN: Any other questions here? All right. Look, this has been remarkable, and... You know, the thing that strikes me so often in speaking with folks from the 9/11 community, these are not easy stories to tell. This is not something that you necessarily

want to acknowledge publicly, but part of the commitment that you've all made, part of the memory of the people you are thinking of, is that you need to talk about it, and so we're very, very grateful. Please join me in thanking Bridget Gormley, Phil Alvarez, and Rob Serra. (applause) >> GORMLEY: Thanks, guys.