[Music] well folks hello another episode and another series of let's talk Ed uh Chris and I are going to be talking this week about the value proposition of ired uh articles abound in the literature and this past uh month there was one in higher inside highered about uh how people Chris are thinking well maybe I'm not going to go to college and it's affecting our enrollment um pick it up from here Chris because it's a another fun topic yeah we we bring the good news once again to you so you know
certainly we we've heard all kinds of stuff about the enrollment Cliff of 2025 and there are fewer traditional age high school students to choose from and and one of the things that can be added to that is you're getting more and more of those traditional age college students so we're talking our our seniors that are just graduating from high school that are choosing not to pursue higher education in any way so they are going out uh into the workforce or doing who knows what but they are decidi
ng that I'm not going to go to college and there are a variety of reasons why they are not choosing to go to college so I was at a conference here about a month ago and one of the things that really never had crossed my mind or nothing I'd ever thought about with this but some of those for example you're seeing students that are now second generation or more college students and they are seeing their parents or other members of their family that are still paying down on their college loans and i
n some cases not only are they paying down on those college loans they maybe aren't in the kind of career either within their field which is you know certainly not unusual or in some cases you know they are doing a career that they are not happy with and theud students are seeing this and and they're deciding you know what this isn't the path that I want to go and for for higher ed something that we really have to consider now is what what are we going to do to attract those students now to to c
hange their mind from saying I'm not going to go to college to yeah this is something that I want to do yeah it's it's it's uh like you said it's a bunch of storms coming together right we've got a smaller or dwindling population of uh high school graduates and it's going to last for a good decade at least uh unless things turn around we've got uh anxiety about the cost of higher education and you and I have talked on a couple of occasions about how that has escalated over the decades so to hear
that uh you know some younger folks have their parents who are still on uh paying down their uh uh College tuition I mean if we think 20 to 25 is a generational age it's conceivable that the grandparents are still paying on their uh College uh loans um so I I I can clearly understand it but now it's hurting us even more than before you know especially in two-year colleges we used to pride ourselves on the idea that we cyclical and we're counter cyclical to the economy um well not sure that that
is true I feel like we've L those go ahead yeah the and the numbers beared out that uh you know you have students that are choosing when they are choosing a college they are choosing four years over two years at a higher take rate than they were before so the two-year colleges are hurting even more in in this case than they were before yes it's and and there's an additional layer that I'm feeling is like further bringing us down and that is the idea of people are asking why do I need to go to a
college does it lead me to a good job right and our messaging you you as the communicator has been consistent that look at the data they show that consistently the people who get higher education receive more income but in fact this is not necessarily bearing itself out and and again folks may not be believing us what are your thoughts on that well and part of it you know we all know that those entrylevel positions aren't the highest paying positions and to some extent you want that return on y
our investment starting right away you know it's it's it's easy to see the numbers and the numbers are there that show that you know students that get a degree whether it's an associates degree whether it's a bachelor's degree uh or or more will make more in their lifetime than somebody that does not but those are lifetime numbers you know that is counting those typically higher earning years as you've moved up and advanced uh in your career but you know we're also seeing cases now where uh you
know you can go out into the workforce and and you're going to start off at let's just say $15 an hour or you can come to college and you can start off at $16 an hour and it's it's becomes that financial decision like what what am I getting this degree for in the short chart right and and you and I have been in meetings uh in Illinois where forun 500 uh uh employers would pay the same amount whether or not you went to college uh or uh the hiring is done not necessarily on qualifications as much
as it is on some esoteric or some personal relationship and and yet another Fortune 500 uh employer uh so it does society I'm thinking the question that that that you're asking is does society value what we offer enough and then the question becomes are we offering what people are looking for am I right you disagree what's your thought yeah I mean I think absolutely and you know we we've seen on the political side of things too where people will go in and and they will Target certain things that
have happened in in higher education and paint with a fairly broad brush and and put down the value of higher education because you know somebody did take you know a class or a program a degree whatever it is that that they didn't particularly value so you know you have that end of it too but it is very very important for us in higher ed to be able to put some value to a degree right away um you know to get good job placement within your field right away um you know if you've gone to college fo
r however long and you can't find a a career in the field that you studied like that instantly feels like was that worth it so you know we need to address that absolutely now I'm going to ask a political but really not from a political standpoint question the president President Biden is proposing in his new budget uh buying down the cost of two-year colleges Across the Nation at the same time the Department of Education is is revamping um the longstanding amounts of dollars that a free payment
sort uh or I shouldn't say repen how much does financial aid pel grant in particulars cover uh and and increasing the uh threshold uh of Eligibility to Encompass more of the middle a middle not middle age middle income uh families in this nation uh so when you hear that and you couple it with what we've been talking about do you think it makes higher education more appealing or do you still think we're still not answering the question of the value proposition and what you know what you talked ab
out yeah I mean my my gut feeling is there are a lot of people that if they see the cost of a product as being free or or very inexpensive there may be this question of quality that comes with that and uh you know coming from a college that has fairly low tuition and a population that that needs a lot of uh and uses a lot of Hell dollars one of the questions even though we can empirically show what kind of quality students are getting uh there's still that question of quality and my my gut fear
is if suddenly uh it looks like okay it's going to be free are people going to question quality now big picture uh I like the idea of increasing accessibility uh especially with that middle income group because you you have a group of students that uh may not qualify for the need-based Aid um they may not qualify for merit-based Aid so they're kind of stuck in this middle and they end up with a larger burden for higher education I think that really helps that population a lot so if if we were to
wrap this segment uh where we're stating what we believe is a problem in higher education what would be uh that rapper that bow statement that Chris would uh would use here because for me it's like well we need to start we need to go back to square one but what what you how would you say it yeah I mean certainly we have a reality to face we have to look at all of our programs everything that we're doing and make sure that it aligns and aligns well to the needs of the current generation and and
answers that question of is getting a degree worth it and it has to be able to do that in a way that is not you know the higher ed spin on this but truly giving something that that is Meaningful to those students did you hear that folks the communicator the guy who sells higher education to thousands of people is telling us that messaging needs to be changed well you can only hear it on let's talk Ed uh Chris and myself are visiting this week the idea of potential Learners saying no to college b
ecause they don't see the value they see dollar signs but not a relationship with jobs we're going to pick it up in the next segment we're going to start talking about Solutions because this is not about complaining this is about helping you so you can help us make the changes that we need let's talk head comes three times a week uh wherever you get your podcasts and if you're on YouTube like share subscribe hit the darn Bell hit that thing and send us your comments We Appreciate You Chris let's
pick it up in the next segment let's find Solutions good
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