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Black holes might be dark stars with layers: New solution found

πŸ€“ Expand your scientific horizon on Brilliant! ➜ First 200 to use our link https://brilliant.org/sabine will get 20% off the annual premium subscription. Do black holes even exist? You might think the evidence is overwhelming. But in a new paper, physicists have shown that Einstein's theory of space-time allows another option, it's that black holes might be layers of shells with dark energy inside. I had a look, and here's what I learned. Paper here: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6382/ad2317 πŸ€“ Check out our new quiz app ➜ http://quizwithit.com/ πŸ’Œ Support us on Donatebox ➜ https://donorbox.org/swtg πŸ“ Transcripts and written news on Substack ➜ https://sciencewtg.substack.com/ πŸ‘‰ Transcript with links to references on Patreon ➜ https://www.patreon.com/Sabine πŸ“© Free weekly science newsletter ➜ https://sabinehossenfelder.com/newsletter/ πŸ‘‚ Audio only podcast ➜ https://open.spotify.com/show/0MkNfXlKnMPEUMEeKQYmYC πŸ”— Join this channel to get access to perks ➜ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yNl2E66ZzKApQdRuTQ4tw/join πŸ–ΌοΈ On instagram ➜ https://www.instagram.com/sciencewtg/ #science #sciencenews #physics

Sabine Hossenfelder

5 days ago

I had a Prof he used to say that black holes can't exist because quote God wouldn't separate himself from part of universe and quote now you might think that this question has been settled for good what was all the evidence we have for black holes also the prophet meanwhile died and yes his name was Gina but then again science is never really settled is it and so today we have a press release saying not only that black holes aren't really black holes but stars but also that there might be Stars
within those Stars the Pressel comes with this image to make clear what we're talking about what's on the surface of those stars is it um stars I had a look at the paper a black holes defining property is the Event Horizon that's the boundary of a region of space from which nothing can get out not even light once something crosses the Horizon the only thing it can do is to fall towards the center of the black hole technically mathematically the center of the black hole has a singularity and at t
hat Singularity everything gets destroyed you can check in any time but you can never leave but the Horizon of a black hole is not a physical thing it's just the boundary of a region it's like City Limits basically you don't even notice as you cross it until you get a speed ticket a lot of people find this surprising I believe because they think there must be a strong SpaceTime curvature and indeed one would notice a strong space-time curvature this is because the curvature creates forces that t
ear things however the larger the black hole the smaller these forces are at the Horizon they only get strong towards the singularity where they'll eventually rip everything into pieces so the thing is that at the black hole right and the forces can be very small and you wouldn't notice Crossing it not until the singularity shreds you forget Venus flly traps black holes are much meaner but the issue is that since nothing gets out of a black hole you can't directly observe it the only evidence we
have for black holse is indirect you can study for example how stars move around it how light bends around it how gas heats up around it what gravitational waves Escape when it's formed and so on and in each of those cases you can try to say well maybe it wasn't a black hole maybe it was something that looked very similar to a black hole but really it neither had a horizon nor the singularity why would you want to do that well first of all there are people like my Prof who just don't want to be
lieve in black holes maybe not a good motivation but scientists can be disappointingly human then there's the issue with the singularity that we don't know how to to prevent and then there's the problem with black hole information loss basically black holes are trouble and if you avoid black holes you can avoid some trouble so about 20 years ago a team of physicists came up with an alternative to black holes that they call a graa star a gra star is a supposed end state of gravitational collapse
that is not a black hole instead it's a thin shell that has dark energy inside exactly how this grav is supposed to form somewhat unclear there has been some talk of quantum effects which basically means a miracle happens and then you get that gra star another issue is that they're unstable if they rotate which isn't good but it's true that these gra stars are mathematically correct Solutions of Einstein's equations like black holes and wormholes but without the Horizon and without the singulari
ty that means they can't be all that easily discarded and this finally brings me to the new paper the authors of the new paper point out that there isn't just one type of gravastar but that if you believe that these things exist at all the same process can happen multiple times forming shells within shells within shells and interestingly enough this makes the gra Stars more stable I think this means the other way around that the inner shells could be caused by the instability of the outermost on
e though they don't discuss this in a paper so take that with a grain of salt and don't forget your beta blockers along with that so this is a neat paper and I'm pretty sure it's mathematically correct but I think it needs some context first of all maths or not we have some observational evidence that's difficult to make compatible with the idea of gravastar that's because astrophysicists can study how gas and stuff falls into a black hole if these objects had a surface like this grav stars do y
ou'd expect to see signs of an impact of sorts but there isn't one then again you can make up some story about the surface of these grav Stars which prevents this like them being good at absorbing things and maybe then it works the other issue is that we have some observations of gravitational waves that have been attributed to merges of black holes and if you do the calculation with gra Stars it just doesn't fit with observations these are argument interestingly enough comes from one of the aut
hors of the new paper I had another Prof who used to say you always need to make two predictions one for the thing you believe in and one for the exact opposite that way you can't be wrong I used to think he was joking but now I'm not so sure in any case to understand what's going on with this paper you need to know that Einstein's theory of general relativity is mathematically extremely interesting physicists just like finding new solutions to these equations I've been looking for Solutions of
the equations myself and I can report from personal experience that this can become quite addictive it's really hard to find these Solutions and this means if you find a new one you can almost always get it published the journal to do that is classical and quantum gravity this is where the new paper was published and this is also where my paper appeared before I slap my hands asking zabina what are you doing the issue is that it's often unclear what these Solutions have to do with reality if any
thing and this is the case with these Stars within stars are they solutions to Einstein's equations yes does that mean they actually exist no knowledge is power I really believe that and there's no better place to grow your knowledge than brilliant.org whether you're into coding maths science or just want to level up your problem solving skills Brilliance interactive courses make learning really fun and engaging I've been digging their probability course recently and that made me fully realize h
ow much of this stuff I'd completely forgotten whether you want to know more about solar panels neuron networks astrophysics special relativity or computational biology brilliant as you covered and they're adding new courses each month I like the play so much I even have my own course there that'll introduce you to the most important basics of quantum mechanics that's interference superpositions and entanglement the uncertainty principle and belts theorem and afterwards maybe you want to continu
e their course on Quantum Computing or Quantum objects sounds good I hope it does all you need to do now is use our link brilliant.org Saina 30 days are free and the first 200 of you get 20% off the annual premium subscription yep you heard that right 20% go on click that link because I really want smart people like you to be in power thanks for watching see you tomorrow

Comments

@lucianomoffatt2672

Depicting the physicists addicted to finding solutions of Einstein equations as cats eating some herbs is stunning.

@mihan2d

Doctor: Wide Sabine does not exist, she can't hurt you Meanwhile wide Sabine: πŸ‘οΈ πŸ‘„ πŸ‘οΈ

@FourOf92000

do physicists think singularities exist, or is it more an "our math is messed up but we don't know how to fix it yet" marker?

@alexrocks00000

Sabine, I just wanted to say that in your ad read, when you mentioned how much probability you had forgotten, that really warmed my heart. Sometimes it's embarrassing to feel proficient in a field (for me, Biostatistics) and to realize how much of another field you have forgotten. If a smart person like you can forget stuff, then maybe there's hope for the rest of us!

@ponyote

Hearing Sabine say "prof" is the highlight here. Publish or perish is such a thing. Thanks for getting us the real facts. Knowing is half the battle. Brilliant may be the other half.

@dasstigma

"Disappointingly Human" is a new favourite of mine.

@deathsinger1192

1:37 stuff like this is why I love this channel

@Mikaci_the_Grand_Duke

"πŸ‘πŸ‘πŸ‘ Sabine, what are you doing!?" πŸ˜‚

@MCsCreations

Fascinating stuff indeed! Thanks, Sabine! πŸ˜ƒ Stay safe there with your family! πŸ––πŸ˜Š

@user-jr6bl9ih3e

Thank you, Sabine, for making the fine subtle point that there's a difference between things that could exist according to the solutions to Einstein's equations and things that actually exist. I might that add that for things to actually exist, there must be a physically allowed process or series of steps to arrive at that final state, it's not enough for the final state not to violate the laws of physics to actually exist.

@GKRainwater

After writing a song called Graviton, I'm now inspired to write one called Gravastar! UCkszU2WH9gy1mb0dV-11UJg/m8MfY4jbFsWJhL0PyouA2Ak Wish we knew more about these alien suns.

@JeffACornell

Could this be extended to a continuous solution? Instead of nested shells of matter, each right where an event horizon would normally form, you could have a continuous distribution of matter that's right at the edge of forming an event horizon at every point within itself. If increasing the number of nested shells improves the stability, would this type of continuous distribution be perfectly stable?

@stancartmankenny

how do black holes even form? since time is stopped at the horizon, doesn't that mean that as star-stuff gets more and more compressed, time slows down more and more, slowing down the progress of creating the black hole (from the pov of a distant observer), so that time can never get to the point of being stopped, so the horizon can never be created?

@pineapplepizzasandwich1974

I never imagined I would get to experience a Sabine & Flextape crossover but I am glad I did.

@braddofner6407

This nesting could potentially generate substantial lorentz forces and vortical currents, which might be detectable through appropriate observation. I'm not well versed in astrophysics, but as a layman, I feel this should be an easy phenomenon to observe using the technology already available to us. Looking for deflection of EM radiation that can't be accounted for by gravity and other known phenomonon comes to mind without much thought.

@Mike-yt4jq

OH wow. This is so interesting to me right now . I've been very interested in gravity among many other things lately. Your videos are superb. Thanks Sabine!πŸ€“πŸ™βœ¨οΈ

@mikeward9870

Check out anytime. Since it takes forever to hit the center, perhaps Rovelli is right, when it gets down to a quantum squeeze size, perhaps it bounces back out?

@gonzaloperez5787

Hello Sabina, as always, your videos are very interesting. Could you someday talk about the theory that suggests black holes could actually be quark stars? It's proposed that after the level of gravity resistance of neutrons, there could be another level of nuclear resistance in quarks. Regards

@gregjones2217

Thank you sharing such an interesting concept. Certainly worth thinking about. We have so much to learn.

@RollcageTV

Are those gravastar layers turtle shells? I mean, it could be turtles all the way down 🐒.