hello and welcome to everyone listening to the written melanin podcast the place where you come and get your weekly dose of melanated creativity I'm your host CM lockheart an author of fantasy books featuring black girls who aren't all that nice and the owner of the melan and libary and online database of books written by black authors and in this space I share with you everything I've learned on my journey as a black and Indie author I'm glad you're here and today you guys I am here with one of
my favorite people Tatiana OB and she is an author who writes badass characters slang dragons she enjoys combining action with character-driven stories that feature diverse Heroes and heroins and her debut novel bones to the win is a 2022 BBA or blackbook Award winner and a 2022 Indie Inc award finalist she once taught English in South Korea studied abroad in Japan and spent her debut year traveling the world and she is here today to talk to us about her amazing wonderful incredible duology and
a couple of other things because if you guys are new to the podcast you may not know this but Tatiana is my friend and she also watches anime and I don't know where this conversation is going to go so buckle up for it welcome to the podcast again Tatiana I'm always happy to be here we always had a very good time we do we do so if this is your first time tuning in I do want to let you know that Tatiana was on the podcast last year and we talked about her Nolla sister Samurai which is also availa
ble and If you are an an anime person girly boy whoever you need to go read it you need to go read it right now so go get it come back listen to the podcast listen to this one it's great you have so much content to consume and I love that for you but that being said assuming that this is their first time interacting with you aside from your bio please introduce yourself to our listeners yes so my name is TA Obi I write badass characters playing Dragons so my first book Is phones to the wind and
it's the completed duology with dragon your bones so these two are complete I have signed copies too so if you're listening to this on the podcast you should be watching it on YouTube so that you can see these amazing covers just throwing that out there oh thank you and then I also have a Noella sister Samurai so yeah this one's for all of the anime lovers out there yes which honestly it's interesting cuz I was like uh switching up my bookshelf like trying to clean it up and make sure that I hav
e like things behind me like actually on display right and as I was going through it I was like I'm pretty sure that I have everything Tatiana has ever written on my shelf I mean there are some things that has not seen the light of day Fair everything that's available for purchase have a copy of and I'm like that's wow because I am not the type of person where I usually like buy things I'm like oh I like you cute I'll get it from my library I'm not I'm not going to keep it on my my shelf right b
ut I'm like no I have multiple copies of everything that you've written I'm like oh does this make me a fan I think this makes me a fan this is kind of cool I think I get to that point too because usually I you know like you you only have a limited amount of space for your bookshelves so I'm like okay I usually will purchase all of my Five Star reads and so once I start collecting them and seeing Oh there's multiple of this author I'm like okay so I guess I guess I like him then literally that l
iterally that and it's one of those things where it's just like as an author who also writes I don't know if you have this experience for me because again if yall listen to the podcast if y watch the YouTube channel y'all know I'm a harsh judge IDF books like it's breathing like I don't know you got to really convince me it's not will I finish the books your job is to convince me to read the book right I'm just I'm not the ideal reader for most authors I acknowledge that but it's also like with
your books I literally started reading it and I was by chapter eight of the first book I was so sad because I was like oh my God I can only read this for the first time once and this is going to be great this is going to be amazing and yall already know this I am a huge Stan of a foraging of age duology dragging your bones bones to the wind I said them backwards but bones to the wind had me in a choke hold when I tell you I was up to 5:00 a.m. multiple nights because Raja is unhinged but she's a
lso really incredible but she's also unhinged when I tell you she is the epitome of if I say I'm going to do it I'm going do it and everybody around her is like who she say she's going to do it so I guess we're all on board for the adventure now who's going to stop her I can't you know and they try and that's what I loved about Nico she really tried and okay this is a slight spoiler for the book but it's not because until you read it it's not really a spoiler but there's a moment in the book whe
re Raja and ni they can't stand each other that's that's all the background information you need to know they don't like each other at all but they're they're teamed up they're paired up Mo messes up Raj's play rajha is upset okay she's been she's been knocked out cold for like a solid day and a half first thing she does when she wakes up she's like okay so what happened where's the where's the thing we were hunting and they were like well we had to make a choice she was like it was already half
dead why would you why would you make that choice what is wrong with you mind you Raja has broken ribs and she's like whatever I'm leaving it's in the middle of the desert I ain't got no water whatever I'm I'm a thug I'm just go and Nico's like we're in the middle of the desert calm down right we'll figure out a plan and Raj is like I don't need you I don't need you and she was literally epitome of Mushu and mulam she's like dishonor on you this not on your mama de not on your cow like I hate a
ll of you I hate all of you and N tries to stop her and Raja was like fight me bro and NCO was like I'm not gonna fight you you have broken ribs she was like use your magic and fight me bro bodies her and was like exactly and then just goes on about her day and you know it's funny because like people ask me like so what's your favorite fight scenes to write and you think it would be like the very long cinematic ones but it's usually like the funny like the character ones like that that I enjoy w
riting so much I lived for I was just like it's just the pure level of disrespect that was in the book and again if you're listening to this I have I need you to know that I have ra to Tatiana for hours about her book already when I met her when I went to Texas but I need y'all to know how great this book is because moments like that are things that I think are missing from a lot of fantasy books that I read in like I'll say the modern era right it's just like I want fun I want characters who ar
e like yeah I can absolutely body you and that's what I'm going to do right we're going to throw hands and then I'm going to I'm going to go about my day thanks and it's just a level of disrespect that was in that moment because told her there's there are giant monsters in this book right again not going to ruin it for you just know that there are giant monsters in the book Nico can use magic and Raja was like you're not going to mess up my Coming of Age journey by using your magic and cheating
right no no no no no Raja broken ribs she told her not to use her magic against the giant monster trying to actively kill them and she gets up and she's like fight me and I want you to use your magic come at me with all you've got because it doesn't matter I'm still going to win and then she does it's just that disrespect and then she she they they have a giant win Winship and she just sails off on essentially a skateboard and they cannot catch her and they have magic yeah yeah like I you know a
nd that was kind of like the inspiration behind raja's character like her character specifically like came to me in high school and she's haunted me like ever since then like I I like you know like got to I had to eventually write a book or she wouldn't leave me alone but like one of her Inspirations was like I was reading all these fantasy books and like you know like the girls like they didn't do anything you know they had to be saved and I'm just like and even the ones that are were supposedl
y supposed to be like strong female characters are act oriented female characters they didn't do anything they didn't do nothing I was like I can't I can't I can't do this like okay rajia let's go cuz this is ridic this is this is this is crazy this is ridiculous and again if you're listening to this podcast this is why we are friends this is why we are friends because literally every time someone ask me it's like oh what was inspiration behind Brandy I'm just like I don't know I just wanted a g
irl who was badass who actually did badass things I don't know like if you're going to tell me you're an assassin be an assassin if you're going to be the best fighter in your village fight somebody I want to see it yeah you know any who I can Rave about this book and I will probably Rave about this book for a good long while rest of my life it was a solid five star read book book two I gotta be real with you I gotta be real with you I loved book two but you already know what my beef was with bo
ok two so I ain't gonna ruin it for nobody because I can't talk about book two without telling you what happens in book one but it was also really good and it's one of those things where I will say this because I I I will sit here and rant about you all day and that's not what this podcast is about I mean it could be and that's what you want to do but I'm assuming that there are other things it's just Tatiana has a way of handling things that would absolutely infuriate me in other books and has
and has like I've I've taken my beef up with other authors before like why would you do this I don't know you you were on a you were on a good roll and then you just I don't know you stopped right B of the not most but dragging your bones there was a moment there was a moment and I was just like Tiana don't do this to me babes don't do this to me but then I understood but then I understood and now I'm like you know what I'm at peace with this I'm at peace I accept it it took her a while it took
a while it took a while at first I was like what do you mean this is the end I accept it I accept it anyway we're not going to talk about that pain okay what I want to talk to you about specifically what did you learn from riding uh bones to the wind and jacking your bone because this is this was like your first like actually published books and it was a duology and in case you guys don't know these are the these are chunkers at least to me I don't know if y'all out here reading prior of the ora
nge tree you're like oh my God what it's only 500 pages like what is that right but to me I'm like oh these are 500 pages these are these are Hefty love this for me for me and for you if you read it but also you wrote a duy for your first foray into publishing and you did it you did it well like the cover the formatting all of it so what what was that Journey like and what like what did you take from it so in regards to duology like it's it's really a duy because I wrote this whole story at the
same time so which is also a skill and you know like being an indie author it's very expensive to like pay proof reading and copy editing by P by the page so I was like okay I'm going to have to split this up in two there's no way there's no way um it's going to work if I did not because the first book definitely helped me pay for the second book so you know that is kind of what made like this possible but like because I have written other things I know that my natural book length is that long i
t's pretty long so and and that's from writing other that's from writing other things and but that's hard that's hard when Indie publishing like I feel as if there's more more of an advantage for shorter Works within the Indie publishing space one because it's easier it's less expensive but you can also most of the time charge the same amount for a smaller book in a different genre so you know sometimes there are very specific in genre things like fantasy that makes it different from other genre
s and makes a little bit different to P to publish things for example I know a lot of fantasy authors they do prefer KU because you know you get a little bit by the page read and so if it's a longer book you can hold people's attention that does favor F fantasy for KU but I decided not to go I decided not to do KU because I I really wanted my books available in libraries and available to people that was one of the big determining decisions why I decided not to do that and just to also kind of ha
ve a little bit more control over my own work but I think the biggest thing that I learned from the duology is that I'm a good writer and you are I know that's weird that's weird to say but like before this duology I and and before you for a lot of authors before they publish you are kind of in a silo when you're writing you are kind of you know especially before you find your community if if you before you have writer friends you know like I've been writing my entire life up through Elementary
Middle High School College like I said out so take a break from college and end up writing fan fiction instead and I think that was also a big lesson because at that point you know like you are sharing your work is a little bit a little bit more safeguard CS but you do get that critique and you do get that criticism and you're like oh this is what I need to work on this is what you know like I'm not very good at and when I decided to publish it was more of a a pandemic decision it was like well
like well [ __ ] things are going down and you know I have always wanted to publish a book and I was like well I'm going to get this done and I'm going to do it but I don't think I had any real sense when I published it despite all the years I've you know like all the years I've put into writing despite all the years I've put into craft all the years of reading and everything else like that that when I put it out and reviews started coming in I was like oh they're just being they're just being n
ice nice the nice oh I got the nice thing I mean even after I publish it took some time for it to finally seep into my head like Oh I'm a good writer and you know that's because compared to traditional publishing in traditional publishing you have the definitive markers you know you get an agent you get someone to pick up the book and those are usually the signs that validates your work I'm a good writer but you don't have that in the publishing and often times you have to make those goals for y
ourself you have to validate yourself and so that that's definitely like difficult to do amen and there are so many things in there that I'm like oh wow we could probably have a whole podcast conversation about that because you know at as like we're both Indie authors right but there are so many decisions that have to go in into publishing the book that especially when you're doing it the first time you're like is this the right move especially if you're going kind of I don't say Against the Gra
in but kind of against the very popular advice like oh picture book on Amazon picture book in KU this is how you make money right I feel like that definitely works as a valid path but it's not always the best one and I will say that you know from my own experience and kind of what I see from with your books and a couple of other authors that I know it's just kind of like K I feel like KU is fast like if you were looking for that fast kind of traction for sure because people people do pay for uh
Kindle unlimited and they will give your book a try simply because they have access to it right but I feel like when you go through other avenues and like you said you make your book available in libraries and you make your book widely available which isn't an option if you're in Kindle unlimited you have a certain level of longevity with your books that I just haven't seen people really have with KU at least not talking about it publicly I don't know I don't know the numbers behind the scenes o
r anything like that but when people are kind of like promoting their books and pushing them I see that with a lot of Indie authors especially when they are on like Amazon there's like this huge push right right around when the book releases and then you kind of it you kind of don't hear about it anymore it's onto the next project next book next thing that's being released so I'm kind of glad that you touched on it because I feel like that's something that I personally want to just look into mor
e and be like huh I wonder how much of this is genuinely like this works versus doesn't work right yeah and like that was also in my considerations to how I decided to publish as well one of this another reason why I decided to go wide is I target audience like you do have a lot of popular you know popular advice in regards to publishing but you know I'm looking at bipo black fantasy readers and to be quite honest the ones who read fantasy are usually reading trap books and now you have the fant
asy Romance the romance readers but those are more specifically KU you're talking about people who like pick fantasy like what me and you right they're still very much more in the Trap space so those are that's the audience that I'm targeting you know they're not in that like they're not in that space I'm trying to gear myself more towards where my audience is so like when I did do this I definitely thought about it in the long term you know like eventually my name will be out there eventually p
eople have confidence enough to pick up my book for the price that I that I I think is value for yeah and I think that's also a thing like as an indie author it's kind of like setting the price of your books because it's just like I'm so sorry that this book is what it is but like also I gotta make money off of this you guys it's not it's not a hobby I'm not doing this for fun okay sorry coughing fit slightly because I stayed up super late watching the Apothecary Diaries and it's catching up to
me but neither here nor there neither here nor there you also mentioned something that I'm like y'all just need to listen to Tatiana talk because she's dropping so many like nuggets where I'm just also personally like yes like knowing where your target audience is because also understanding that at least for me with KU right like you said that's a lot of Romany lot of like straight up contemporary romance and also books that are quick books that are like 100 120 150 200 Pages Max you're like you
're getting into it you're reading it and then you're moving on to the next book it's usually not a five or 600 page you know KU slog right with another book that you also need to get into you know it's a completely different demographic and I think doing your research and understanding that is a really big part of being an indie author you said something else earlier that I was just like yep yep and it's like that impostor syndrome that you have at the beginning where it's just like you believe
in yourself you've been doing this thing you've been getting you know like you said feedback from different places but then it's also like okay now you're book is out in the world and then you get those nice you get the good reviews and you're like wait you didn't tell me it was garbage like wait why why why are you not being mean to me right now and it's and it's kind of wild but then it's just like like you said it's that validation and I think as an author whether Andy Trad or whatever like
it's really important to set your own validation measures that's outside of someone telling you that you're doing a good job like there's always going to be that reality there right that like hey when someone tells you you're doing a good job that's immediate whatever chemical brain dopamine serotonin whatever reward right but it's also like you kind of need measures where it's like you look at it and you're like oh wait a second they're not lying like I actually am doing something here like I d
on't know in my in my head the meme in my in my head that popped up was the one I was like hold up let them cook right like you need to have that moment with yourself like tell your imposter syndrome like hold up let her cook right anyway I don't even know if that makes any sense because y'all I'm completely out of touch with reality and what the youngans are doing I just need I'm yelling at them to get off my lawn on Twitter at this point in my life but all that being said um we do have a quest
ion from Ben in the chat and he asks how did you arm yourself with the knowledge about your target audience and I think that's a really good question because I know we talk about doing research and understanding where they're at but it's like also how did you come about this knowledge so Chelsea knows like how crazy I am in regards to like genre and like just knowing the genres listen to the previous podcast because she she she goes hey she knows her stuff you guys but what I think a lot of it c
omes out of passion like I've been specifically in the fantasy space my entire life I've kind of grown up in it like if you asked me about like other genres outside of ssf I probably couldn't tell you anything but I have a very good General timeline like how fantasy has developed here in Western publishing um like I did my high school Senor thesis on the publishing industry and like said querying agents out for my thesis I'm so sorry she this is the thing with taxi Han she just casually drops al
l these things that are just exceptional and I'm like wait a second you did a senior thesis on the publishing industry like let's rewind so like I I've always been very up to date about it I lost touch with it a with it a little bit after college and then kind of got back into it once I decided okay this is something that I want to do let me go read and see what's current right so I did go and do the research I picked up a lot of books that you know like were current people that were being publi
shed and just to see what was out there and you know just knowing how and then and then you want to talk specifically about your target audience because all the books in fantasy right like there's so many sub genres and it doesn't speak to everybody and you know so I want to know how I how can I reach my audience and where were they and what were they talking about what books were they talking about and luckily you know like my audience is is very a reflection of me like they love to read the sa
me books that I read so like you know like I follow them on social media I interact with them cuz I like the same books I'm like oh yeah that one was really good you know the picky though so like they give me recommendations I'm like yes I know that those are the same books that I like and knowing that you do very much realize how um above all type of marketing techniques word of mouth is still the most important marketing that you can get for your book so if you make sure that your book is you
know like people close it and they want to talk to someone about it that's powerful it is it really is because again both sides of it partially as a really critical reader because side note I'll come back to that what as a reader but also as an author right it's just like I've seen like as an author how how the numbers change when one person gets on the internet and they're like oh my God this book was really good I need you guys to go to go read it but then when you have several people saying w
hy are y'all not reading this book this book was this this book was that you know that is far more powerful than any AD any infographic any anything that me as the author myself could post that that I validation that vote of confidence from someone else it's just like oh it's kind of like when someone walks up to you and they're like hi I'm super you know I'm super hard workking right you should hire me that is a lot less convincing than if someone who actually knows you and has worked with you
is like hey you should hire that person because they're super hardworking it's just a completely different perception right but also as a reader a fun fact when I met Tatiana in Texas one of the things that we did is we went to a Barnes & Noble and we walked around and it was great it was great but I also felt like in my heart Tatiana is such a sweet summer child because she she gives everything good chance and I'm over here like first page nope I am absolutely not reading and so as as a reader
I get how powerful it is to read something that completely I don't say Alters your brain chemistry but like really Alters your brain chemistry and you're like oh this was great I'm really happy I want to talk to someone about this I'm going to tell someone who knows nothing about this book everything that happens in this book just so they can be caught up to the moment that I'm at so I can talk to them about it right it's like that that is a special kind of feeling that I feel like as someone wh
o writes books that's what I want to give someone but as someone who reads books I'm like oh this is why I've been so dissatisfied with all the things that I've been reading lately because this is what this is the magic that has been missing this is the promise that has not been delivered on for me but like I said y'all know I'm a harsh critic I will dnf a book really quick fast in a hurry because I'm like I got too much too many things to do to be reading a book that does not bring me joy I'm d
oing this for fun I'm not getting paid to do this I am absolutely not going to be miserable doing it that no but it kind of goes back to what you said of like reading within your genre and understanding like how it works and what books are popular and why you know one of these days I'm going to I'm going to get around possibly to to reading uh that book that y'all if you listen to podcast and if you know me you know good and well that super popular book about the girl it's blue and it's red and
I'm I haven't read it and I'm I'm like I'm probably not going to read it considering what's in it but it's also like I've talked to people and I've read parts of it and I'm like oh I understand why people like it but it's also like for me I'm like oh I don't I can appreciate this for what it is but and also recognize in that same breath that I don't want to do what this is doing I want to capture this feeling but in a completely different way you know and I feel like as authors that's also a rea
lly powerful feeling of being like Oh I like what you're doing I respect it I see you I'm going to watch you so that I can continue to learn but also no I'm not your darket audience boo I'm going to stay in my Lane Thrive over here you know get your bag though get your bag I also think that's why Word of Mouth marketing is so important in regards to um books because a lot of the times you do form a relationship to the person that's recommending it so often you know like they know which books you
like and which books you don't like and they'll recommend specific books for you to like your taste or you know like you're confident in like this your taste matches with this person's taste and you're like okay like like if they didn't like it I know I won like it so you know you you see these relationships forming and um you kind of like building up that trust mhm and I'm very opposite of you like like you said I give things a chance like I I do not dnf a book but I will dnf a series like if
it I I will definitely say if I did not enjoy a book or not and I appreciate that about you I mean I I acknowledge that I am the problem right I know this about myself I live in my truth right but I'm also like I don't mind being the problem that's fine I think like my like mine is definitely like the curiosity like I'm like okay let me go experience it for myself and see if I have the same experiences as everybody else or you know sometimes it's like well I wonder I do sometimes I do read and p
ickup books for marketing research to say okay why was this popular like what did it do why did it become popular at this time you know like why are the spin-offs the successes so sometimes I like to look at look at it in regards like influence how it's influenced the genre and why like why now CU even within the black Fant like within the black fantasy space or even with the spck fiction space you've seen Trends come and go like there's The Wider genre Trends but then there's even just smaller
Trends within you know within publishing like right now I feel like we're in like a horror girl black horror girl phase we are definitely in a black vampire era yeah yeah so it's very interesting to see like even just the small trends the ones that are you know like popping up and fading away oh yeah and I think kind of going con connecting it back to what you said earlier about the word of mouth you know the ones that are super popular are the ones where literally everybody and they mama was re
commending it and to the point where it's like okay if I said hey I'm on Tik Tok and I just saw someone recommended me three black fantasy books I bet you you can name the two of them off the top of your head the two that were Absol absolutely in that list you know and but it's also like that kind of trust in the author where it's just like you know people will recommend that certain books those books and I don't even have to say them you know exactly what books that I'm talking about and people
will recommend them having not even read them and the thing that I guess is also wild to me as an author is that people will recommend them having read them and not enjoyed them to the upmost fullest and still be like hey but you should read it and I'm like that is the thing that I want to study where it's just like okay you didn't even enjoy this like you didn't rate this five stars you didn't rate this four stars you barely gave it three you're like this is a two and a half star rounded up an
d it still made a recommendation list and I'm like that that is interesting what about this book and I'm like part of it is probably hype right because everyone's talking about it algorithm right but then another part of it that's the part that I'm trying to figure out right like you read this but then you gave it two and a half but then you picked up the second book when it came out out and I'm like this is interesting this is wild but I digress I digress you know I feel like again it's just wh
en enough people are talking about it you know it makes it so that you know people want to be part of the conversation you know and I don't know I feel like that's also a kind of a hurdle as an indie author just in general it's like hey getting people to read your book and leave reviews and be like please go read the book but that also brings me to the other thing that I want to talk to you about which is reviewing books as an author right because one thing that I have learned to do is I don't r
eview books I made it clear of my channel I was like I read more than I talk about but for the most part if I don't if I dnf a book unless it's egregious unless it does something that fully upsets me like that one book that said Goku was a good dad now rest in peace to Aira toana you know he's gone hence our Memorial short shirts today moment of silence for him but unless it's egregious like telling me that Goku is a good dad in the book what show were you watching what what what anime what mang
a were you getting into because I would just like to know how leaving your child in the middle of a desert with Dinosaurs is being a good parent I would just like to know I would just I'm curious I'm curious but I digress I digress point is unless it's something like that I'm not going to talk about it right I try to only talk about the books that I actually really enjoy right but you on the other hand this is what I love about Tatiana I'm honestly the mean one but oh my God y'all don't know Tat
iana is scathing with a pen oh my God she will wreck your little feelings quick fast in a hurry and do it with a smile and she's like I'm just helping and she is but you're like oh my God he did not have to get the shredder for my emotions but she's such a thorough reviewer you guys I I I tease and I justess and if you guys listen to me you know that I talk about her all all the time being like her opinions are here's the thing here's the thing Tatiana is honest and she's thorough and she knows
what she's talking about and so it just it's like as an author if she's like this ain't it you can't even argue with her it's just not it you got to fix it so all that's saying I love Tiana I love getting her feedback because I'm like okay if she approves I did it I'm I'm fine everybody else I don't say F y'all but like f y'all if y'all don't like it it's your problem that's you problem how do you how do you how do you go about that balancing like you know writing reviews publicly and also like
being an author and knowing how it feels to receive re like reviews and critical reviews well I it's very very you know it's very interesting I I think this is when you enter Indie publishing because you want community and one of the ways that authors help each other is to read each other's books so you see that happen all the time so there's a lot of pressure I feel sometimes to read other people's books to say like hey you know I'm involved in the community and I support other Indie authors an
d so some like I've seen some people are just like oh I'll give you a five stars for my five stars like just an exchange like I seen that so early 2000s watpad it it literally makes me cringe like what and you know like and I've seen you know other authors yeah they go in and review other people's books honestly but the thing is like there are those authors that get sensitive over four stars you know so you go in and and you're like oh you know I'm trying to support you I'm trying to help you an
d then you know like you're like four stars and they so you know like so there's a lot of landmines to kind of like walk around and you know there's some like I I know like traditional public some traditional publishing authors like once they get a contract they're like oh yeah we just delete our good re you know they're like you know just don't review or anything like that so so when you become a author a lot of authors are readers and so you're going to have to make a decision and make a choic
e on how what you're going to do and what your choices and so my choice is as we as we were talking about before in regards to visibility especially visibility for Indie authors you know I don't in this space especially in regards to Epic Fantasy I don't think there's a lot of people talking about um you know like black Indie authors and Epic Fantasy um you know when I was publishing I you know I just don't see didn't see a lot of people prioritizing that stuff so I wanted to make other people m
ore visible I wanted to be like you know like these books is good even if I've read it and even if it's not for me I can say oh this book wasn't for me but this book you know like if you like this if you like this if you like this you might enjoy this book so the reason why I decided to continue reviewing books is because no it just it feels like just a big a space you know like there's the melanin library and there's all of the stuff that you do on your podcast highlighting you know um IND um I
know you had the fall that saved us on the previous episode that was a really great book but you know also a slight plug you guys can go listen to it on the podcast or on the YouTube channel just get into it because it was a great conversation okay continue yeah but what we talk about visibility for authors as we said is that height it's that conversation around a book that gets people picking it up so if no one's talking about it like who's who's going to ever know and you know like I you when
you first get into any publishing you believe people you believe they're like oh yeah there's no black authors writing Epic Fantasy oh yeah there's no like you know writing good Epic Fantasy and then you you take the time and you find them and you read them and you're like this isn't true you know like a lack of visibility is not a lack of quality and and you know and I just I'm just like I think it's just something I'm really passionate about and I'm just like the we do have great books it's j
ust no one knows about them no one's talking about them so the reason why I review is to you know like highlight just highlight those books that I think needs uplifting and I think that is really important I think also it's as an indie author I okay I'm G say this I have a different approach than you do right because like I said you you're on good reads and you you post publicly right which honestly if you're if you're an author and you are listening to this podcast then you more likely than not
are in enough bookish Community spaces on the internet to understand that you know the common consensus is that authors should should not be in reader spaces because like Tatiana mentioned you know there are authors who get upset if you write their book anything less than five stars like how dare you like oh my God chill Janet okay it's not that serious it's not that serious but it's also one of those things where it's just like there I don't think I've met any successful successful authors who
did not start out being Readers first right and then migrate it over to I want to write my own stories or you know got the time or the courage or whatever that journey is from taking the plunge from I'm just reading books to now I'm writing them for myself right and in the beginning it could be very difficult to navigate that kind of that Chasm that kind of creates between those two things because on the one hand yeah you're an author and you know what it's like to for someone to be like oh I d
idn't like the book or I dnfed it or you know ah why would this happen and you're like wow you or I don't know if you've had this experience like people just make up things that weren't even in the book and you're like did you even read my book I'm a little lost right but then as a reader like you said there are so many books out there that don't get talked about that don't get hyped up that people don't know about and it's like okay not going to pretend like I'm not a reader anymore right and a
s an author I'm not going to pretend like I don't understand the benefit of a review right I think it's deciding how you're going to go about it and I think the way you're doing it I respect it so much because it's like also we've talked about this kind of like you know privately but also especially as Black authors you want other black people to review your book you know it's like even if your book is for everyone obviously we're not gatekeeping we're not like no one outside of our Target demog
raphic can read the books that's not the idea but the idea is I do want people within my Target demographic to read and review the book so it's just like as uh a black reader who reads Epic Fantasy is like that review holds a little bit more weight I know that for me you know when I have a review like from you or from someone that I know who is actively talking about fantasy like not just you know that blue and red covered book right but like generally like they they talk about fantasy and the t
hings that they like about it it's like oh okay your opinion now holds a little bit more weight right and you're you talk to an audience that follows you because you talk about these things and now I'm potentially reaching more people who are who are who may like the book who may give it a try you know yeah and you know and that's was a part of my decision too because you know if I want if I'm trying to uplift these books and I want you know people to pick them up I also have to gain their trust
and trust is through honesty you know so I'm going to be honest about the books I'm going to be honest about what the strengths were and honest about what the weaknesses are so that people will trust me and they will pick up like pick up the book and you know I know that that's not for everyone but you know seeing how that word amount of relationship is there's a lot of trust you know it's dependent on trust and so I want to be honest like I'll say like hey this book wasn't for me but I think t
his book is perfect for you if it's a book that I do not think was ready for for publishing and y'all see how she weed that you see how she just rips apart your little feelings I you know I probably will not you know post anything about it like you know I won't I won't say anything about that if it's less than a two star I won't I won't say anything but you know I think one I think that's valid and I I personally genuinely appreciate you and the fact that you review books and that you're honest
because you are one of the people that I actually pay attention to there are not a lot of people that wear if they I don't say if they like or dislike but depending how they review a book I pay attention to it for myself right I pay attention to you I pay attention to uh Venom is woman of color reader I pay attention to the Golden Books uh the golden bookstagram I think is her name The Golden Book Hunter yes The Golden Book Hunter on Instagram and I also pay attention to a couple of booktubers w
ho are still on the fence we got to we got to see a little bit but there are a couple where I'm like also like a capri book Island I also pay attention to the books that she likes and stuff but only because I appreciate when people don't just dnf a book or tell me that they didn't like a book they tell me why what was the thing that made them put it down or walk away from it or what was the thing that they really enjoyed about it and for me I couldn't do good reads mostly because I don't know th
e way my brain is set up I'm just like if I can't write you an actual like long detailed breakdown I don't want to do it like that's just that's just me that's who I am personally right but I do enjoy talking about books on YouTube and on the podcast and things like that like I want to give authors their space to shine because I also feel like it's kind of under it's underrated thing but like the best person to talk about their books is the author themselves right and also just being able to be
in conversation with people where it's just like okay you wrote a book I respect you for writing a book even if I didn't like the book you have a journey and you have you know a space here where even if the book is not for me this is your stage right like sell whoever is listening to it because at the very least of people listening I hope if you're listening to this podcast and watching this channel you like black others in their books you know so it's like there's an audience somebody may get i
nto it somebody May pick it up and that may be your next reader you know I just can't be the person like oh my God it's great I don't know I didn't read the book except like and I and I generally try to be honest about that like awareness I'm telling you about the book I ain't saying that I read it I'm not saying I'm going to read it if I did read it I will tell you but if I didn't can't help you yeah but you also touched on something that I feel like again we can have a whole conversation about
because you mentioned like you know being honest and I feel like there needs to be a conversation within the author Community as a whole about accepting honesty when it comes to feedback because I feel like so many people air on the side of hyping each other like we're all in this together I'm like this is not High School Musical like we are not even on any and it's such a dumb thing I don't know why I come back to sports analogy it's probably because of my family and growing up in sports I don
't understand them so if the analogy is wrong whatever sorry don't watch them but it's kind of like even on a basketball team there's still people sitting on the bench there are some people who are going to be playing the game and some people are going to be watching everyone's not going to be on the same level and you know how you get off the bench you practice and you have someone watching you and telling you like hey you need to do this you can work on this you need to improve this this is ho
w you become a starter right and I feel like within author Community there's so many people hyping each other up where it becomes uh what is it when an echo chamber it come yes it becomes an echo chamber of oh my God you're so good oh my God you're so great so when you get any piece of criticism any piece of eoch it's automatically defensive it's automatically like how dare you not like my book like how dare you like somebody else's book more than mine and I'm just like y'all are weird because i
t completely removes the the reality that some books come to people at the right time right there there's life that factors into when you read a book right and then like you said every book is not for everyone everyone's not going to like the book everyone's not going to appreciate the journey and that is just a part of being an author but I feel like more authors need to get comfortable with receiving feedback in a appreciating it because here's the thing I like I said I joke around about like
you know my feelings being hurt right whenever I get feedback right not just from you but like also from from Ben and from lot and Celeste I need yall to know that the author counsil I love them to bits and pieces these are literally some of my favorite women in the world I appreciate them to no end and will sing their praises but also I'm a sensitive girly okay and when they're like oh my God Telsa you need to fix it I'm like I work so hard what do you mean right that's internal but then it's a
lso like thank you for telling me so that I don't go out the house looking crazy right so I'm not on the internet being like how you guys this is my best and it's really not and it could have been better right I feel like more people need that in their lives and just hearing it and being like okay it sucks that your first draft or your second draft or your third draft isn't perfect but that's literally why we have critique Partners that's literally why we have beta readers that's literally why w
e have whole systems in place to have people give you feedback because it's understood on a very base level that you can only go so far by yourself before you need an outside opinion you know yeah yeah I mean ultimately feedback helps you grow like that's how you grow your craft like that's how you grow your writing I mean you know like it may hurt but that's how you grow and what one of my favorite things about our particular community in regards to black women and black fantasy readers and you
know like they are honest as [ __ ] sure are they very much are so you once once you know you know you got their they're like oh yeah it's good yeah it's good it's good and that's why I'm always so big on this on this podcast on my YouTube channel like find your community find the people who are going to be honest with you who are going to tell you so that when you when they tell you that you did a good job you know that they're not gassing you you know that they're not lying to your face to ju
st be like oh I don't want to hurt your feelings hurt my feelings please I'm going to cry about it but then I'm going to fix it and that's what I need to do right and shout out to Venus also in the chat she had a really great comic comment talking about there's so much tox toxic positivity in the author space and then she was surprised to see that some authors last year said that they don't rate all of their friends Books five stars and here's the thing I don't rate all of my author friends Book
s five stars that's just like we can be friends and I can respect you as a person I can even respect you as an auor there but I'm also not going to jeopardize my platform in an effort to Hype you up right like if your book deserved five stars I'll give it five stars or if it was close because like if it as as long as it is deserving of Praise then I will rate it accordingly but I'm also not going to be like a how do I say this nicely I don't know I write books about black girls who aren't all th
at nice that comes from being not a nice person right um I'm I'm not going to be out here being like yeah look at my friend that's my best friend and I'm like I wouldn't read the book it's not on my shelf but you know go off like no I'm not I'm not that person yeah I yeah I say I'm a compromiser I'm I'm a like in the middle because you know knowing that for example on Amazon a five star or a two star rates differently than it does on good reads right the algorithm is much more negative towards a
n author on Amazon regards that like I understand the financial and marketing aspects of the Stars right so my compromise in the way that I review is on good re I give every one of five stars kind of just for of a participation trophy but my review is very honest and I'll tell you what what my personal rating was so that you can you know adjust adjust it accordingly so I'll be honest in the in the text and but you know so so because I am looking to raise visibility for Indie authors and I'm not
going to give an indie author who only has like three ratings so you know a great you know I'm like to me that's because I read a lot of a lot of them that don't have a lot of ratings to begin with so I'm like okay this is my compromise here's five stars you did a great job publishing here's my honest opinion and I guess my take on it is just slightly different only because of the experiences that I've had in the past where it's just like I recognize that as my platform is growing with the melan
in library and and written melanin and just with my books in general right like I I'm very fortunate to be able to say that like some there lots of people I don't know how many I'm not going to try to quantify but there are plenty of people who have read we are the origin who have never come across my platform who don't know me right and I have kind of seen for better for worse the kind of backlash it can be on me and my platform and my book books when I attach my name uh I don't say what's the
opposite of UNC carefully UNC carefully is not a word but recklessly I guess or just out of a friendship thing to someone else's book and it's just kind of like I it was a heart lesson I learned that lesson and so now I'm kind of like we can be friends but again unless I am willing to stand tin toes down behind your book unless I'm willing to pitch your book in conversations with my book or in conversations where you're not around and I'm like okay voluntarily someone asks me like hey you get to
recommend three books of any if your book is going to pop up then yeah I'll I'll do the reviews right but I'm also like I at this point I'm like I can't I can't give you a five star on good reads and that's there for Prosperity especially especially if there's only like three reviews and it's just like okay again that that's a whole other thing that I'm like it backfired on me in a really visceral way and I'm like okay my bad and I've seen it happen to other authors in traditional publishing li
ke what's her name uh Khloe gong MH you know she was reviewing all of those books that were like y'all like this is super problematic why is she writing a glowing review for this book why is she blurbing this book like is she problematic and I'm like there're always you know Ripple effects and things to that nature so and so my compromise with that is you know doing things other things to promote an authorly if I will promote you on Twitter I would promote you on Instagram I promote you on Tik T
ok my YouTube channel I promote you there all day every day but good reads I am of the mindset where I'm like at least for me I want the reviews that I get from my book to be genuine reviews like you read it and you left a review because you want it to I don't want it I don't want my reviews to be I don't say cluttered but I don't want to say I don't want them to be dishonest reviews from author friends because I know a lot of people do that as well where they're like hey like you said in the be
ginning you review my book five stars I'll review your book five stars and I feel like with author friends depending on who the person is it can really easily fall into that and I'm just like no if you like the book feel free but way that's also helped me kind of to navigate the space and everyone has to figure out how to navigate it for themselves but I found that you know people who are receptive to my honesty those are the people went around me you know like if you can't take criticism then t
hen okay your Journey's yours we we don't have to go on this together she said we don't have to be friends on this journey you can just walk over there but no I feel like that's a real thing because again uh just a little bit of insight you know author counsil like first conversation we had because just so you guys know I decided to put together author Council and none of them knew each other before I threw them in a group chat and I was like hey you guys we're here I did ask them individually f
irst so consent is a thing right I asked them all individually hey this is what I'm doing would you like to join right but one of the first conversations that we ever had like as a collective group was okay so we're all good with being like really honest in here right so no one's expecting this just to be hype and we were all like oh my God I'm so glad that you brought that up cuz yeah no we're going to be honest and it's been gamechanging like even for me recently you know getting help from you
know you and Celeste on the blur for project Necromancer it's kind of like yeah I would have never thought about the things that y'all brought up because the world lives in my head I'm like oh yeah this makes perfect sense right but yeah and and that's why it's important to have like especially Au the friends around you because when you're so close to a work there are things that you can't you don't see like it's so you're so close to it and you're like oh yeah that makes sense when someone poi
nts it out but yeah like I was glad we had that conversation and you know and it felt like home cuz prior to I have had where I was honest and people were like and I was like okay all right whatever honestly part of the reason why I made the author counsil because you know transparency y know I believe in that on this podcast I had again runin with people where I was just like okay do you want me to be honest or do you want me to Hype you up like and they were like no I want you to be honest and
the thing is I feel like a lot of authors think that when you ask them that that your honesty is going to be hype but I'm like I separated those two options for a reason right but it's like okay you want me to be honest I'm being honest with you but then that feedback isn't well received and it's just like straight up ignored and my thing my personal gripe I like was of my time I don't have a lot of it so I'm like okay if I sit here and I give you a breakdown analysis of your story that you ask
ed me to read that I took time out of my day to read and I'm like okay this could be better and then you just like you just ignore that I'm never going to give you honest honest feedback again because like okay you don't want it and that's not what you're looking for so but I realized that we just hit an hour and Ben does not like it when the podcast goes over an hour so we are going to wrap this up if you guys want t on the podcast again let me know hit me up because I mean she's great she's wo
nderful who wouldn't want her back on the podcast but that being said uh two questions and then I'm going to take us out of here right I don't know why I did that like that like we're TV I don't I don't know I don't know what's happening if you guys are in the chat and have any questions this is your time to drop it we may be able to do like a little separate segment if you guys have multiple ones but Tatiana writing advice that you would give to anyone just now starting out on their Journey jus
t now starting out read and you know like not just like read and then share your work because I feel like a lot of beginner authors is very easy to keep it with you or even wait or you know like keep working on it for years until it's ready mhm but in my experience you grow the fastest when you finally share your work so beginner writers don't be afraid to share your work agreed agreed I can't I can't ramble because I got to got to wrap this up got to wrap this up okay can you let the people kno
w where on the internet they can find you should they want to sure my handle is is at obey theauthor everywhere on the interweb on social media and then my website is Tana o.com there you go youall already know there will be links in the show note description box of wherever you are listen this listening to this at so get into it but that is it for this episode of the written melanin podcast you guys if you like to support this podcast then please share it with someone you think may enjoy it joi
n my patreon at patreon.com writtenin melanin or grab a copy of my books from my website cmlck heart.com there are links in the show notes for everything and thank you guys again so much for listening until next time I hope all your books are full of melanin
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