Bupa | Workplace Academy | How to support men's health

[Music] hello and welcome to the Boer Academy for small businesses I'm your host Holly tuo and today I'm at a small business called Mission a creative agency based in London to talk about Men's Health in the workplace in the first part of today's session I'll be speaking to Rob Ellis head of internal comms at Mission and Sam Preston berer clinical case manager about some of the barriers that prevent men from seeking help and exploring the different ways small businesses can support Men's Health

in the workplace in the second part of the session I'll be joined by two employees from Mission who will share their firsthand experiences of dealing with their own health challenges in the workplace finally in the third part of the session you you will hear from the head of the Partnerships legal team at work Nest Laura Williams on the top legal and HR tips for supporting Men's Health in the workplace but before I begin I want to highlight that although we refer to the men throughout the sessio

n we do recognize that members of the transgender non-binary and interex communities may also be experiencing these issues too so welcome Rob welcome Sam lovely to have you here so Rob have you any personal experiences or insights that have influenced your perspective on the importance of supporting Men's Health in the workplace yeah so I've personally had a long battle with both depression and anxiety and I've just always found that as soon as I can be open about it and talk to people that it j

ust frees me up um allows me to be a better a better me so um so it's kind of that's what influences what I do and it kind of I know that by giving people space to talk about things and take helping people uh take things on do you actually allow them to be better at what they do and have a better um experience every day sort of share the challenge that they're maybe going through yeah definitely and I think soon as you start sharing and you free your mind up because I think one thing that happen

s with um well with my mental health is that I take things on a lot and you're you're spending a lot of energy on things that you don't need to um because you're thinking about trying to cover things up and keep it away from each other so as soon as you're in an environment where you can be free and you can talk about your mental health and let people around you understand what's going on and they allow that you your space to do that that actually the world's a lot better place already load is r

eleased exactly in a way and Sam approximately um I couldn't believe this one in eight men have a common mental health problem such as anxiety and depression what we were just talking about could you please start by explaining how we can identify those symptoms associated with mental um health illness in men yeah so some of those symptoms of mental health within men are a start of um avoiding social circumstances right so removing themselves from social situations whether that be related to fami

ly yeah or friends um you may notice sleep deprivation Disturbed sleep patterns can be quite normal especially with heighten levels of of stress you may also notice that there might be more of an uptake within alcohol and smoking or vaping and sometimes there's a use of recreational drugs as well just to help control L feelings inance like personal hygiene you may notice that they're coming more unkempt or if they're normally clean shaven you might notice that they're taking less Pride within th

emselves right that's really interesting and we can actually relate to what you're saying that those those are things that we can see why is it so important for small businesses to support Men's Health in the workpl well you've got to remember one thing like we spend a lot of time at work it's you know it's about a quarter of your work of your week um and so one thing is it's the right thing to do you're spending a lot of time with people is to actually help look after them help listen to them a

nd we know that work is a pretty common cause of of stress for a lot of people um I know for me certainly that's what happens is you know the work can cause that stress and you need that space and you need that um time to be able to think things through um and to a lot of men it doesn't NE naturally doesn't come natural to us all yes it's not as easy sometimes to talk about it as you maybe want it to be um and so yeah you just it's great to be able there because what happens is again if you take

people give them the space to do things like you'll find that they will be more productive they will be able to do better work I know personally like when I'm free and able to think clearly I can actually the work is so much better and not just the work the relationships that I have with both clients and people that in colleagues so just by simply allowing people that space you can really just change the way they're working you'll find that people are in work more they're taking less time off u

m they they're feeling more in the room and more in the moment they're able to actually perform better um and they'll stay at the business longer as well because they're happy in a way feeling safer yes definitely and I think that's quite a key word is actually as soon as you make people feel safe you're just going to get a better person they feel like they belong there that they they can be them full selves in that in that place rather than maybe hiding away or taking a day off sick or those so

rts of things um Sam men are more uh resistant aren't they generally to seeking medical attention than women in fact 75% of men avoid going to the doctors despite showing maybe signs of illness could you please explain why you think that might be yeah I think there's a cou well a few elements really I think one of them being fair is that there's a fear of something being wrong with themselves and potentially confirming that there is something wrong with themselves as well and I think there's an

inial fear of actually um admitting it and seeking that help by going to the doctor um also I think an element of it is they don't always see themselves as being or see ourselves as being priority we do social economics can come into place as well you know these still parts of the country where men are the Breadwinners alpha male the priority is a family um so admitting that something is wrong can be sometimes feel like it's the weakness to them they not been able to provide OB that strong Facto

r within the family and also I don't think men are generally very good at talking about how they feel it doesn't necessarily come come natural um with in the NHS last year only 36% of men attended talking therapies which just shows that really men aren't very good at talking about how they feel yeah and I think that I think probably women fear going to the doctors but I think that that mix then that we we might feel more comfortable to communicate but also that that that Alpha I know my husband

you know probably has never seen a doctor in the last five six years it's it it it feels vulnerable you know if you feel that you are caring for the nest or you're caring for other people to then admit that there might be something wrong how do you think Rob small businesses can play a role in breaking down stigma surrounding men's health issues I think it's being open about it um business is can to be open within the business and externally as well but it's the leadership that I think is really

really critical um and that doesn't have to be a the leader a business or you know someone with a fancy job title it can be anyone that's actually prepared to sort of talk and be out there and show empathy at all points so that you know the people start to learn that that's what you like and then soon as again you're making that space where people are comfortable to talk about things and as soon as they've started talking and started saying things and admitting things even maybe to themselves i

t's that that's the key tally being able to you know to help sort of recover if you like but it's really that leadership and keeping it part of um who are as a business almost and keeping as like a core value is like we want people to be safe and be able to talk and tell us how they feel because that's really what is going to be leading by example in a way you know I had a team meeting the other day and I was quite upset about something and I did share it with the team and it was an amazing reac

tion that came back because not only were they there for me um but also I think it allowed them to see that actually that's okay um and that we can have bad days and that I will have a bad day and as much as they might and we're here to support one another and I think that's a a great point you make Sam men are are more likely to be involved in alcohol and substance um misuse and are nearly three times more likely to be dependent on alcohol could you please explain why men tend to resort to thes

e ways of coping yeah I think ment to put a lot of pressure upon themselves and expectations and that can be social expectations family expectations trying to the expectations of the friends as well and the PE trying to sort of keep up with with Society um and they can also be quite self-critical upon themselves as well comparing their life to somebody else's and it tends to be a shift around midlife with men where they reflect upon where they are now what they've done before and what they've ma

ybe achieved and maybe not achieved as well um and they sometimes can perceive that self as a as a weakness um and they don't want to come across as being weak again it reflects to being sort of the alpha male of wanting to provide for the family be be responsible and be um and not show those those signs of weakness to the Friends are to the family yeah I I think we can all relate to that you know that the looking back at maybe your younger self and maybe trying to keep that up you know keep the

facade up maybe you know amongst a group and are you going to be the weak one to break or you know it's it's so interesting um Rob what are some effective ways to initiate you know that conversation about Men's Health in a small business setting without making male employees feel uncomfortable um or actually singled out how do you make it feel natural yeah so one of the big things you could do is is is group conversations and group sort of discussions around topics that involves everyone within

the business or you know large groups within the business as well so that it isn't singling out people but one of the really small things that I've always found really effective um that you can do in any any meeting we could we could do it here today is just checking in or checking out at the end where you get people to rate their kind of energy level or their mood because I find as well with men we're not always the best at kind of labeling our emotions or knowing what we're actually feeling b

ut we can certainly put a number on things and sort of just it just gives you say out of five how are you feeling today two three and if you've got that honest sort of conversation other people that we said earlier that leaders are saying you know I'm feeling about too today it helps you to say yeah and what will happen is you can see patterns in people if they're always feeling low maybe we need to you know step in or maybe we need to look at other options and things that we can do here in the

moment yeah that's that's uh we we we have a team meeting each Monday morning and I'll go around the team and I'll say um we basically it's it's a a similar type of thing that you're saying there and it's so interesting to start Monday morning just how we all checking in it's not about the weekend it's just life and it's good medium not so great and that's all you have to say you don't have to tell anybody but it is interesting to just go okay I now know a couple of people are not so great um an

d then you can maybe come back to them afterwards yeah you know and and and have a private conversation Sam in the UK one in eight men die from coronary heart disease um how can small businesses promote healthy lifestyle habits amongst male employees to prevent or maybe manage a chronic health condition um I think it's just lay what you've just said it's about I think initially checking in with people with long-term conditions um including like mental health and msk problems the the highest perc

entage of the reason why people go off sick within within companies so it's about that initial checking in and making sure that your employers are okay I think from like a a lifestyle and health Choice it's about thinking about the environment that you're in you know providing like healthy snacks or fruit around an office you know maybe taking the stairs instead of the lift um it's about offering healthy food choices if you've got like a restaurant on site reduction in no saturated fats and more

health choices um if you're a desk worker you know standing up for 30 minutes every couple of hours it's that's that's really good for health and um doing like aerobic exercises at the desk space and I suppose also just things like having fun runs and uh group yogas and anything that can basically get us moving and it's such a bonding activity as well isn't it when you get people together so Rob from your experience is there any specific language or communication Tech techniques that small busi

ness owners could use when discussing Men's Health with an employee and what helped you when you were um going through your own health challenges so I think it's difficult sometimes to put a specific language in it because every every case is slightly different and everybody's got a different thing that's happened a different Solution that's going to work for them as well so you do have to listen um which is sometimes the hardest thing to do but that's what You' really got to remember that you'r

e there to listen to someone as well and I think when you do that what a lot of people I find tend to do and did when I start first started talking about it is they they kind of tried to be the hero and sort of tried to fix your problem there and then which one puts a lot of pressure on them to feel then if you're you know a line manager or business owner I think now suddenly got to be a counselor as well it's not the case but it was more that they should listen and work out and point you in the

right direction to the people that you could that can help you know you don't need to be a trained counselor you just need to know where people should go and that was the key like when I wanted to talk about it I wanted to tell my line manager but I don't necessarily want to go into the full detail I want to do that with my my partner or my family or friends or whatever you know so they just need to know that give the space and that's what really worked for me they gave me the space and said it

's fine to go and do those and have those conversations and the first people I talked today were always they actually used like an employe assistant program to help me get some counseling sessions as well and just knowing that that was available was the key for them and what really really helped me yeah really listening I think that's yeah it can feel a pressure in a good you know that person is trying to do the right thing yes but as you said I think that the listening is the most the key compo

nent there in that conversation um what are some of the side effects of cancer or or of the treatments that can affect an employes ability to work yeah so you can experience quite a number of symptoms with prostate cancer and with the treatment alone um some of the symptoms include so like pain tiess fatigue some like social withdrawal might experience muscle loss MH um depending on the type of treatment that's out there these if these hormone therapy being used then it can make men more emotion

al they can develop um breast tissue the breast can start to swell you might also notice that there's a frequency in urination as well and loose duels mhm and some men do develop what we call that retention which means they can't pass urine so we may result in a cafeta for a short term uh some men may experience that they have to have a cafer for the for the long term of the uh of the treatment and the after the diagnosis right um have you supported an employee Rob who has struggled with their h

ealth um or anything that Sam's just spoken about there and if so how did you support them yeah so if you times yeah I think you know when you've got a team or anything a lots of people are having different struggles and you have to try and understand the differences between them but I remember one guy who was struggling with his weight and mental health at the same time and he was wanting to get more active and we did I did a really simple thing where when we did our onetoone chats we actually

just walked and went for a walk around the block and just kind of got him up off his desk he was doing a lot of like developing stuff so computer a lot of the time so you just walk around the block and that Al also allowed him to know that it's okay for him to go and do that if he needs to think about something walk around the block it's fine like I don't mind you know because you're trying to encourage it and yeah I've had others who I remember one who had a um was suffering with P PTSD so she

had a really traumatic um situation happen in her childhood which kind of reoccurred regularly and again it was kind of knowing those patterns and listening to her as to what actually worked for her and being aware of what was going on for her in the sort of when those anniversaries of those events might come around but one of the big things we did there is actually support her partner and we gave her partner counseling to help support her at home so that she was able to sort of you know he she

was able to talk to him a lot more and actually he had the support because it didn't she didn't want it from us directly so that's kind of one of the things that we did that gosh what fantastic support how can small businesses encourage male employees to seek medical attention um or support for their natural health issues particularly if they're hesitant to do so we talked about that sort of male resistance you talked about that alphaness how do you how do you break in I think it's providing tha

t safe space for people to go to or someone to go to right and providing that confidentiality as well a lot of workplaces have mental health for sters so someone who's trained in in mental health that they can go and confidently speak to and know that they can talk to him in confidence and I think it's highlighting certain Men issues such as like prostate cancer or mental health in places where men may socialize whether it be the smoking shelter whether it be place with the canteen or toilets wi

thin cubicles where it's it's confined in in areas where it's sort of accessible to read without letting everybody letting everybody know and I think also linking back into like the health assessment like I mentioned earlier you know identifying personal needs you know they are we are people and we do have personal needs and everybody's needs are different so I think it's high highlighting those personal and individual requirements yes Rob what initiatives does Mission have in place to support m

ale employees and their well-being so I mean the first thing we have before we get to sort of initiatives is it's the culture of the organization where you're trying to be as open as possible but as flexible as possible and like you the thing we do really really well here is if people need time we can offer them that if they want different working Arrangements that's something as well that's definitely encouraged I know I have a slightly different working arrangement to to others you know that's

the first and foremost is just to be flexible but we do have initiatives such as an employee assistant program which is amazingly amazing because it's flexible again like and it can it it can help people with counseling or whatever it is that they may need um to do things but we also have like Health cash back as well so if people need appointments to kind of so they can claim cash back um on on those appointments and different things like that but we also look to you know hold like talks and p

rograms about kind of just getting like the information out there and having the conversation about different things so we do that a lot as well um but really is that the culture of just kind of being as flexible as possible because as I said before everybody's slightly different the air that the company breathes is actually supporting what you might then put in place but it needs to feel so cohesive doesn't it as as a company Sam what support does berer offer for men's health and what additiona

l resources may be helpful so depending on your policy with berer you can have access to a mental health cover which means that you can speak to a trained mental health advisor where you can discuss your symptoms and they'll triage your call and guide you to the relevant service can also get access to an employee assistance program which can help with work related or personal circumstances and can give you access to like full cancer cover you can speak to a virtual or telephonic GP you could be

eligible for something which is called a direct access access which means that you can uh speak to an advisor without going through a GP and requiring that referral so you could get your treatment quickly and more efficiently amazing so there are number three services with berer one being boer's mental health Hub which uh looks at supporting individuals with Stress and Anxiety thank you Rob and thank you Sam that was such an insightful conversation what I've actually learned is that empathy and

listening are key attributes when running a small business when you're leading a team and it is vital that we support everyone in the team women and men and I've learned so much about some of those things I'm going to watch out for and how I thought it was brilliant Rob about the culture and really it's the air that we breathe it needs to feel safe and we need to feel like we can open up um whether you're a man or a woman and it is um one of the things I think that small businesses can do we can

actually create culture very easily um and really really change [Music] lives we are now at the second part of today's session where I'll be speaking to two Mission employees on their own experiences of dealing with Men's Health in the workplace and I'm delighted to welcome welcome our guests Mike how creative director and Matt Hawkin head of creative at Mission welcome to you both I'm wondering if we could start by maybe just introducing yourselves briefly of course uh so Matt I'm the head of

creative at mongus and we're a PR and Communications agency my role tends to involve uh leading on ideation for clients and then also our creative output and I sort of manage a team of about six different creatives from copywriters to visual people and then personally I'm really you know my mom's a nurse my dad's a doctor so talking about health and bodies and that sort of thing is definitely up my street it's what You' been brought up exactly and yourself Mike um similar to Matt I'm Mike so I'm

creative director at Crow part of mission um we're an advertising agency so I'm in charge of a team of creatives about 20 people um again made up of different different levels and different types of creative but helping them make sure that our creative output is is the right kind of thing for the clients that we work for amazing um so Matt can I just start with you um could you share any personal experiences or challenges you faced regarding your health in the workplace yeah of course I'd say I

've faced a few different challenges over the years and some of them have been mental and some of them have been physical uh in 2010 um when I was just first entering the workplace my partner or former partner was diagnosed with cancer um and it was a sort of hodkin lymphoma so we it was quite serious at the time and uh that sort of I don't know took a year or two together as a as a partnership to to sort of work through those things and that really impacted my sort of mental health in the workp

lace and then in 2016 my brother um I lost my brother to suicide and it was a you know again had a massive impact on my life in terms of I think putting into perspective how uh how important work is versus how important family is and at the same time throughout that you know it was a year and I think mental health often comes with things that on from each other so my brother passed away 6 months later my dad had a heart attack and 5 months later my sister broke her back um and that was actually

the second sister who broken her back um so it was a real sort of you know flow of things and and it really yeah took had a massive impact on the way that I approached work um and sort of where I wanted to be in the world whether it was close to family or closer to sort of where the work was and then physically recently I've been going through sort of trying to get a diagnosis for an autoimmune conditional arthritis cuz I get sort joints and sort of fatigue and those kind of things and that affe

cts how I approach my work on a day-to-day basis um and I think for for those things I've known I've had them for a long time but thought I could solve them myself either through eating healthy or exercising more or resting and those kind of things and that perhaps is you know one of the things that men try to do we try to solve things rather than get them fixed and that's what we're talking about today which is is getting into it and thank you for sharing and what a journey you you have had Mik

e how do you think your own challenges with health has impacted your work or your day-to-day life yeah um I think I've been pretty lucky really in terms of uh physical health all my life but um I've struggled with my mental health my with low mood all my life um it's been a bit of a a battle trying to keep uh a positive mental Outlook throughout my life I've had spells where I've been really really low um you know with uh with with all the things that had adult life brings wife children um you k

now mortgage all that kind of stuff and then also a job which is pretty demanding and very consuming in terms of time wise and how much you need to give to it um I think often I've gotten to a place where I've felt um pretty burnt out and like there wasn't really enough of me to go around um and whatever I did have that needed to go around needed to be in a good place for everybody else yes um which left me feeling a little bit like I needed to uh hide or look after the bit that wasn't in a good

place um myself just sort that out myself rather than perhaps opening up talking about it and addressing it in the way I needed to would you have thought it was a burden if you did was that the feeling that you had part yeah partly that also I think just very very simply there wasn't time for that you know there there was other stuff to be doing you know there was there was other responsibilities to worry about other people to worry about so um they just wasn't time to be S of self-indulgent al

most is how how it felt well that's how you felt it was self-indulgent and Matt you referred to that your former partner underwent cancer treatment could you share more about how this influenced your personal well-being and how your how it you balanced it with work yeah I think one of the main things was like feeling perhaps like isolated it wasn't me that was going through it and in in terms of the actual treatment and the things like that I was a secondary character almost and I think my frien

ds they didn't have the same worry for me as maybe if I had had the cancer and so and everyone would ask questions like how's your partner how's your partner and you almost become a kind of you know uh a stick figure in the background of looking after someone and I think that then when I went into work I didn't have the tools cuz no one was talking to me about it it wasn't really a thing back then mental health conversation wasn't really around in 2010 as much as it is now and so I didn't have t

he tools to go okay well no one's talking to me outside of work how can I then raise this in a professional environment where perhaps I didn't know the rules I was new to work new to office life I didn't know the structures and and who to go to and also I was trying to prove myself you know you go in with that energy of like okay well this is my time I've got to grab this moment and I think when you pair that sort of energy with the isolation work was where I found value and maybe people who wer

e kind of like oh this is Matt rather than oh this is oh this is Matt you know that kind of serious sad face that people give you so I think that was definitely part of it and then people Champion you for being strong and being there for someone and it is a wonderful thing to be there for someone but if you get that mindset you can almost convince yourself that being strong is a good thing and so then being strong at work is a good thing and so the more responsibility you take the more you then

keep taking and it sort of feeds into each other so I think I just I took too much on at work and I didn't know when to say no you know I was knackered we weren't sleeping we were having common ation deep life mortality type conversations at 4 in the morning I was watching my partner sort of losing and pulling out hair to then take that into work and try and discuss that with people I didn't know I'd only known them for five months was really tough so yeah I think the isolation thing was the thi

ng that impacted work and then just being able to get over the tiredness on a day-to-day basis yeah yeah and and and and and potentially keeping it to yourself and and that pressure as well just to keep that Under Wraps um Mike in your role as a manager of a team and this is an interesting sort of part of this is how do you prioritize your own health while at work and were there any specific measures I suppose or strategies that you implemented um yeah I mean historically I was terrible at prior

itizing my own health over um when I over others when I when I took the role that I'm in now um I I found it a real step up and suddenly had a lot of people looking at me um and I you know I was a figure head I was a department head I was there to answer their problems to guide them direct them Etc all the time um and so I was awful at prioritizing any kind of space for myself which uh you know eventually especially after pandemic covid things like that left me really burnt out um and I had to s

tep away for a little while um which I was really grateful that I had an understanding um line manager and so on I stepped away for a little bit uh just because I needed to regroup and reset um and then when I came back I think from that point on I understood that I needed to make some space for myself um in order to serve those people better um and so yeah I I I tried I was very guilty of taking uh any problems or issues that my team had and carrying them with me so taking them from them listen

ing to them and then holding those myself so I tried really hard to carve some space out for myself where I could get away um have some decompression time get some perspective for myself uh but then equally in a professional way I found that the the best thing I could do to deal with that kind of stress and anxiety and issues that I was holding was making sure that I had way a release in terms of being seen to act on their issues or being seen to have somewhere making sure I had somewhere I coul

d share their issues internally so that I could let go of those things otherwise I just Carri share with others with yeah people more senior or people at my level in the business um Matt in your current role has your workplace supported your mental health and and and how have they supported you yeah I mean it's it's it's been massive and I think unexpected in a way like I came in open and I laid my things on the table from the very beginning um which then I think helped later on when maybe I sor

t of found problems appearing and I needed to talk about them because I I think I'd already opened the door if I maybe hadn't opened the door in the beginning I might not have been brave enough to do that um but I always knew they were there to listen because they listened in that first instance and I think to put context to it when my brother passed away I was supposed to have my birthday party I canceled it because work were like look you are the only person who can go on this trip we need you

there and that would have been the last time I saw him and so I think I always held on to this idea that work had taken something and I needed to reframe the sort of way that my life structured around that and so after lockdown you know we were all knacked and stuff but I kind of went ah I need to see my family I need to be around my family so went to mongus and I said you know I need I need some time for me I need to do this differently and some of that might be I need to not live in London I

need to live close to my family I need to prioritize time outdoors I need to you know work in the community and stuff like that so I I went part-time and they supported that fully um and you know I now do three days a week um two of those days I work in a community center sort of supporting young families and stuff and that helps feed the sort of Soul element I get to see my family and you know I think from a mental health perspective it then they encourage me to keep talking part of that is tod

ay right they want me to share they want us to share with the team around us that we keep facilitating those conversations because we all whether man or wom women get locked up in the things around us and so I think that was the biggest thing and then from a physical point of view just understanding what impact it might have just in terms of tiredness and dips and pain and just being able to say hey it's a pain day today doesn't mean I do any less but it does mean that if it should get to a poin

t where I need to do less they're they're fully aware and again it's that sort of modeling behavior of if you can just show people that it's okay to to not be 100% not ask anyone to pick up any extra but just show that and just be open with it and it really helps so yeah I think the main thing is facilitating conversation and being open about it and then they've been so adaptable with going all right will you provide value for us can we provide value for you which is going work part time and it'

s been amazing I have to say like and I think you know when we're talking about small businesses here and we're talking about that value exchange which is the contract that you have that's an interesting part where I think small businesses you know we can tend to be worried about that element you know does that mean productivity does goes down is that is there a value exchange and in your opinion you'd say because of that authenticity between the two groups yeah there hasn't been a detrimental p

art to your it hasn't deted Your Role at all no the my my manager I I went to them at Christmas I've been living in cor for a year and a half outside of London and I said to them my role is increasing I'm I'm getting more responsibility and I was like you know like I would move back and they're like please don't you are so much better living where you live you bring a different energy you're so much brighter you're so much Fuller and I was like cool that was and that was all the confirmation I n

eeded like I am doing it right that's okay so yeah your batter is being charged in the right way for you that's it's fascinating Mike did the health challenges you faced alter your approach to managing your team uh yeah I don't know if I'd say that they uh they definitely helped me um adapt to them and grow in a in a way um I I encourage my team to take space to try not to um not to overload them um or to to encourage them not to overload themselves which I think is something um like we've talke

d about sort of uh not not trying to take on too much to appear Invincible all the time and bottle things up um and actually just to try and get a bit of perspective within their day-to-day work even you know so sometimes I want them to take I encourage them to take time off where it's sensible but even within the day itself I encourage them to try and take a bit of space to you know give a bit more perspective to the work because the the quality goes up when there's better perspective without y

eah and and we we can be our own worst enemies can't we I mean certainly um the pressure that we can put on ourselves and keep it silent and it's so great that you're looking out for that you're trying to almost create the space even if they're not creating it for themselves a doubt yeah we I try and do that and and then equally I try and I've always been very open about my own problems that I've had and the things I've gone through haven't seen it as something I needed to hide you know um you k

now weirdly talking earlier about feeling like I needed to deal with it myself to to to not hide it but get on with it because there wasn't time for it but I've always been very happy to talk about it um so I've tried to encourage that within my team as well so they all know how I've been what I you know they know that I take an anti-depressant things like that there's no there's no hiding anything like that and I encourage them to do the same so uh because they're all very unique people and tha

t's I don't try and have one size that fits everybody we don't just do you know there's not just one answer I let them all talk about their own condition their own way of feeling how they are um and then we we try everything we can just to make sure that they're they're listened to and they can you know they can grow in the way they want to we were talking in an earlier session about how important culture is and that's you're fostering that culture of communication Matt in your opinion why do yo

u think men avoid speaking up about their health yeah um big big question there there's seven or eight things selling in my mind but the one like the one thing I always come back to is I I just didn't have the same connection to my body that women have I don't think we have you know from a young age we're not having periods we don't get pregnant we don't take the pill like and some of that is you know you know the way that men deal with the health service but like we just don't encounter our bod

y and a lot of our body is we might grow hair and get a deeper voice but it doesn't change as much so I don't think we're as sort of intimately connected and confronted with our bodies and the things a lot of the health issues we do find ourselves having come later in life so it may be 20 years before you have to start talking about and confronting those things and if you never have it's quite a big step to go from nothing to something and I think that's part of the the thing of like being able

to try and get people to take that first step or get them at younger age maybe talking about and finding out and being curious about their bodies and how they work uh and I think that would be a big step and then the other one is just just admin I've always found this of like the the step of finding the right time to phone a GP and then finding the right time to go to the GP and then having maybe that appointment moved or needing to go to a followup one or being referred to a different service i

t's it's a lot and if you're the main bread winner or the person who's responsible for the finances or you take that pressure on yourself without anyone asking you to then it's a lot to think oh god I've got to cancel all those or rearrange that or there's a client call on that and so it each admin creates another admin yes and I think that is something that sort of weighs on us a lot and then yeah I think just that ideal we we so much of culture is around the ideal like Health perspective so we

're less like you know uh image conscious and weight conscious because of the way Society talks I think we are that sort of like verality and health as men and like it's it's good to be seen as healthy and those those kind of things and I think we're not very good at admitting we're fallible and if you can just admit you're fallible and that things are going to go wrong it doesn't mean you're less desirable it doesn't mean that you're less wanted it doesn't mean that you're less good at your job

it just means you're a human being and you're fallible so I think they're the three things that I sort of always come back to um of fascinating I've never ever thought of that idea of men being in tune with their bodies or having that relationship necessary with a third party you know that that sort of thing and I think that that actually really really makes sense Matt as someone who has had firsthand experience in men's health how do you believe managers um should initiate conversations about

Men's Health in the workplace you know break through and and and sort of encourage someone to speak up yeah I mean I think mental health is a good example of what can be done when you focus on something in terms of we've really opened up that conversation in the last what 10 years it suddenly someone turned on a light bulb and it started happening and then it's flown it's flown from there um and I think in terms of like the actual physical problems that happen with men there are still taboos in

around erectile dysfunction or prostate cancer or you know those sorts of things and I think if you can continue to of confront people a little bit so maybe have guest speakers come in or those kind of things where they're facilitating conversations and then from an actual like day-to-day leadership basis I think it's just forming connections and actual teams if you can form collectives then you are and you're asking people on a day-to-day how are you and listening to the answer so the one thing

I found when I was going through a lot of my stuff was I I wanted to talk but I didn't know what I wanted to say cuz it was all a jumble and a blur yes and actually having someone sort of ask me and draw it out of me and it was that bravery of someone to come up to me and go hey I sent something's up how are you which just changed the game because I was like oh someone invited me to speak I thought I was too much I thought I was it was all too much I thought it's a firework waiting to go off an

d you were just going to be caught in the the sort of the the the gunpowder as it were whereas when someone asked and invited I was like oh that's the kindest thing you could have done cuz everyone says it's good to talk and it is good to talk but not if you're so scared of what you might say or how people might react and so having managers and leaders who can kind of facilitate open conversations on a day-to-day basis of just like how are you and then listening and then that will create a team

and a team is a collective and then you carry the weight evenly um so I think that is how I would do it guest speakers and confronting people but bravery of conversation because a lot of people going through stuff won't have the ability or knowledge to talk I mean we all lead people I think there's also another element which which is that you have to make time to listen as a manager so asking just before a board meeting you know how are you yes well I can't quite S I didn't realize that was goin

g to come out so actually making that time to actually that this this can be time that I can take out the diary and I really mean it how are you and I'm here to now listen is really important for both of you how do you think other workplaces can learn from your workplace in a way in the in the best way to support employees Mike what would you say um well I think much like Matt said over the last few years this conversation has completely opened up far more than than it had done in the past um an

d Mission Crow have been really really like forward with that um so we definitely have a environment now where it's an open an open environment to chat you know the these conversations are addressed regularly um I think I I I think following on from the previous Point really it's important that that open environment doesn't just become a kind of uh yeah yeah we're doing that because everyone does that thing it needs to be shown that it's got some depth and it's actually kind of protected space t

o listen to the answer rather than just saying hey we're we're here to talk whenever you want um there does need to be the room and the space around it for someone to actually the firework to go like mat said you need to and not feel like oh no you've asked me the question but you just need me to say I'm fine right um and then equally I think the the other big thing that um I've seen within our our our company um I've tried to do it myself but I've also seen it with other people other leaders is

leading by example so you know there is there is no uh stigma about any of us talking about any problems that we have and as a leadership team we look after each other we regularly talk to each other about you know how are you doing honestly how are you doing and can I help you can I pick anything up for you um and I think our teams are are aware of our fallibility our our our things we have to carry around and deal with ourselves so they therefore become a lot more open talking to us and they'

re not embarrassed when they do have to say I can't deal with this thing I need your help um yeah that really really helps that would be amazing well for small businesses listening to take that in and yourself yeah I and I think for small businesses specifically I would say use what you've got to your advantage so what could offer was adaptability they might not have the staff or the people power that bigger companies have but they could be adaptable because there's no rigid structure and so I t

hink that was something that was a real benefit and rather than seeing what the struggle is going to be you can see what the positives are going to be yeah and I think that's an important one and then for small teams specifically I think the ability to reset so as a society we're going from one thing to the next to the next to the next whereas and I think you need to be able to celebrate I think you need to be able to reset and I think you need to be able to kind of look at the where has the wor

kload changed and shifted so someone's dipped someone's picked up when that person comes back up is this person still operating up here have they been given the chance to come back down because we all need that wind once you've been wound up as a toy it's very hard to come back down so how can you reset those teams on a consistent basis and I think like working in sports Among Us is a sport agency one of the things that I constantly look at is how are those coaches how are those managers you kno

w do you want to be Jurgen klopp or Jose Mourinho Jurgen klopp looks after his team they do load management they take take people out before they get injured like they are all the things that we can do as as businesses and teams if you can if you're so connected to your team that you can spot where load might have sort of affected something look at The Melody of your team and be able to feel it I think um just something you said there as well about that kind of adaptability of a of a smaller bus

iness being able to move and shift um you know you talked about going part-time after what what happened with you I think it's one of the things that I felt which um is probably really important for a whole team to feel is when I did talk about my problems when I did actually bring it out into the open um one of the fears I had was that I was just going to be replaced that I was replaceable um and one of the things I was shown was that you're not replaceable it's fine we we want you in our busin

ess how powerful and um they gave me the space to work things out come back when I was ready to um because they valued me not just not just a person in my role they valued me in my role and that really matters so I think you know that's another thing I try and encourage within my own team or with within any business to make people think you're not important because of your role you're important because it's you who does that role Point yeah oh that's an amazing point to end on thank you both so

much for sharing and being so vulnerable with us today it's going to help so many people your stories I think it gives us a great understanding into just how important it is to have initiatives in place to support Men's Health in the workplace now in our final segment today we will hear from Laura Williams the head of Partnerships legal team at work Nest who cover key legal and HR advice for small businesses looking to support Men's Health in the [Music] workplace the health and safety at work a

ct 1974 requires employers to safeguard the health safety and Welfare of their employees so far as reasonably practicable this is a term which simply means balancing cost against risk most specifically the management of health and safety at work regulations 1999 require employeers to make a suitable and sufficient assessment of the health and safety risks employees are exposed to while at work this legislation is not only for the protection of employees at work it also serves to protect the empl

oyer when it's implemented correctly and this is why it's so [Music] important in addition to health and safety legislation from an employment law perspective it's important that male colleagues are treated equally and fairly in terms of support provided to them as compared to female colleagues I think this is really important is it's commonly recognized that male colleagues may be less willing or able to talk openly about any health concerns and in particular any mental health challenges and th

is does not mean it should go overlooked if you're considering incorporating health and well-being support measures into the workplace make sure these are accessible across your staff team this can also help to prevent any claims to sex discrimination on the grounds that male colleagues have been treated less favorably and discriminated against either directly or indirectly consider getting feedback from your staff team which includes male colleagues they may have helpful ideas as to what they w

ould find helpful sometimes a separate session with staff covering Men's Health specifically can encourage a more open Forum to discuss shared experiences in a confidential and supportive environment berer growth plus customers have access to small business HR Support Advice Line if they want to talk through this in more detail with a specialist adviser [Music] long-term sickness absence in the process for managing this should be covered in a company's sickness absence policy my top tips are fir

stly keep a reasonable line of communication with them during their period of absence so not hounding them but not ignoring them either secondly hold appropriately timed welfare meetings to get an update on their condition and prognosis thirdly discussing options for their return to work so would a phase return reduced hours or duties work for them and fourthly considering whether a return to work is actually possible is ill health retirement or dismissal on grounds of medical capability an opti

on fifthly obtaining a GP or Occupational Health Report is appropriate and it's important to obtain the employees consent for doing so and finally handling things carefully and taking advice where required following these suggestions should have helped to avoid grievances due to a lack of support and how the absence has been handled which can be time consuming another blocker to returning to work [Music] where employees don't feel supported this can have a real impact on their productivity staff

morale and they can become more withdrawn from the business and in the worst case scenario as we touched on earlier the risk from employment law perspective and not supporting Men's Health and well-being in the workplace is a times consuming and costly employment tribunal being brought on the grounds of sex Andor disability discrimination and these can be stressful processes to manage and even where a business may have Good Grounds to defend a case it still takes management time away from the b

usiness in doing so which has its own impact and cost in addition to this businesses should consider the potential reputational damage if the issue is publicized whether by the employee or an open tribunal judgment Men's Health is a really important topic and it's getting an increasing amount of coverage due to the increase of male suicide and cancer awareness and prevention in particular as a way to try and increase discussion of these topics amongst men who traditionally may not have done so [

Music] previously oh