City Council Study Session - 5/25/2021

[Music] [Music] do [Music] [Music] [Music] do [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] um [Music] so and then oh [Music] okay [Music] wow [Music] [Music] [Music] wow i'd like to call to order the city of middleton city council study session for tuesday may 25 2021 it is 6 31 pm or 18 all council is present we do have one vacancy at the moment thank you everybody for showing up all right council there is one agenda change we're going to move item number c the littleton village we're going to mo

ve that ahead of b but first we're going to hear for our uh from uh tim novir is that anything else a little favor all right thank you for our lucrative authority to just give us kind of a 10 minute update on what's going on thank you for having me um i am currently my ninth year on the wilson licensing authority uh so that means i'm term limited at the end of this year uh the last two years and now this third year i have been the chair of the authority uh it's been a great experience i've loved

volunteering for the city of littleton the licensing authority before the pandemic had just recently updated our code to bring in more in line with state requirements and uh ensure that our liquor code was performing what we thought it was doing and remove some archaic language i think so from that perspective with the city code i think we're really good position in shape with that since the pandemic started we've not seen any violations or hearings come to us so business for us has generally b

een down i don't think i think we're probably about 50 50 on whether our meetings actually happen if there's new business but the city's staff has been wonderful in ensuring that i get all of the renewals and documents that need to be signed and processed so i've been able to do that remotely uh for for the authority um new business has been uh good we've been able to successfully hold our meetings over zoom with our new applicants and licensees um and everyone seems to have been very kind in uh

allowing us the patients to to work through that that new reality but we're excited to get back into the building whenever that that's possible but i'd like to see the advocates in person to help judge their character help judge their understanding of the burdens that they take on with uh being a laker establishment and their responsibilities for ensuring that they're not serving underage or uh intoxicated persons do you have any questions for me on the licensing authority i have a couple quest

ions one i want to point out that uh the city clerk colleen norton is the liaison uh to the authorities and she is here so if there's any questions for her she is here as well i normally what you mean once a month yes once a month once a month and do you normally have a hearing of some sort uh no i mean i think annually we have two to five closer to two probably of a violation um as far as a hearing for a violation uh new applicants get their own public hearing uh republicans invited to combine

on the liquor license issue um and that could be once a month or three times three a month and part of your hearings or part of your purview is marijuana it is uh that seems to be completely stable where it is uh even with the transition to recreational i don't believe we have a hearing for that transition i think that's done administratively is that what happens correct council any questions hey thanks for your service uh how many years uh this is the ninth well thank you um any big concerns uh

that we should know about anything we can help you with uh no big concerns you know before uh the pandemic we i had an update with council maybe three years ago and you know you know it's important that we do compliance checks um you know that's always going to be important but i think the pandemic kind of gave everyone perspective and reality and i know that you'd have to ask the police department if there's been a lot of routines and calls to those establishments but nothing's really been com

ing to us in that regard so i think everyone's playing by the rules or they're just not going out and drinking or when they are out there just really nice and happy to be around social creatures again who does your compliance checks uh well those are done by the police department in conjunction with uh junior patrol officers people you know underage uh aspiring cadets i believe um to ensure that they're getting an accurate attempt to do an underage purchase um and then they are shadowed with a a

ctual uh on the job police officer to step in when something goes wrong thank you everyone else here for your service too thanks for coming i really appreciate it you have anything carol questions no well thank you very much for coming in really appreciate it nine years is a long time good job thank you for being involved thank you all right all right with move on that item number c on the agenda we will get to the first one let's see and this is id number 21-099 some of this littleton village u

pdate and we can have those folks who join us over here and council what we're going to do we're going to hear uh from the lilton village metro district uh just three districts i think they are represented here tonight with an update on the pursuit of the commercial development and request the city partnership in addressing the settlement of the hinesdale avenue issue and we are not making any decisions tonight we're here just for discussion so and we the microphone is up here you may not be abl

e to see it but there is a microphone up there but you do need to be just just loud so thank you uh i'll turn on the city manager actually i think i'm going to turn immediately over to one of them to see if they want to do some introductions and kick things off here will you enter the interest well um i know most of the folks here so phil cernanek and i'm president of the district 2 board my cloud organization later is jack buchanan is here he's with the district three board and also positioned

with the district one and trish harris is the attorney uh for white bear and uh she's she represented the total district for a while but now it's that part's kind of waning and she's particularly focused on history yeah well we do represent all three districts this general council all right well why don't i start and give you kind of an update so i still said i represent uh district 3 which is a commercial area and we're simplifying the uh the district areas of cno so that district three control

s the commercial part of the project and district two controls residential part of the project district one was kind of a management entity and that's going away so that's phasing out um overall so i've been involved in the commercial side since 2015 and it is a piece of property that has struggled it's a very difficult site it's a got a lot of attributes i mean don't get me wrong it's a beautiful piece of property great views um we've had a tremendous amount of interest over the years with vari

ous things that could go there but it's been a struggle and a lot of it has been uh really four factors that have come into play that have made it more challenging than most other developments i've ever worked on i've been doing this 35 years and this is near the top of the list that's been a nightmare and even other developers that have looked at it even recently are not jumping up and down for it and again not because it's not a great site it just has conditions that make it a very difficult s

ite to develop one of those things is something that i think you're all aware of and that's the assessor issue and several of you i know have gone to bat to try and fix it and we really appreciate you doing that but i think it would help to maybe understand a little bit of the dilemma that that causes i'll give you an example uh where starbucks is located the average rent in that building is in the mid 30s per square foot for rent uh but when that was assessed the first time the property taxes c

ame out at almost 25 dollars a square foot and that's unheard of that never happens and that is something that really took the market as a shock where they just looked at that and said that's just so high above where property taxes for a tenant would just would never pay that starbucks was so stunned by it that they refused to pay it and that property owner i we built the building and we sold it to a property owner out of california and they've gone through a couple of years of appeals with the

assessor first one was completely unsuccessful the assessor just said i'm not touching it and the second year they felt that it was um in their mind a success i'm saying the assessor viewed it as a success and they got it down to just below 19 bucks a square and that still just is not viable it's just not competitive in the market we really worked hard for you know two day two years plus on this whole issue and basically trying to this gets complicated so i won't go into great detail but came up

with the argument real estate when you appraise property you would apply something called economic obsolescence in this situation and they agreed the assessor said we agree this is a condition that should be applied to the development of littleton village because i'm getting in the weeds here but bottom line when you take the mill levy that you've already got with the city and you take the mill levy that the project is saddled with and it can't go away that's an additional 50 mils you know that

is something that watt did a while back not saying that was a bad thing to do but the bottom line is between that and the assessment that's how these properties are are getting nailed with such high property taxes and so the assessor just said well maybe go ahead and move forward with more development and then we will apply that principle of economic obsolescence on future buildings and that's a chicken and egg situation no tenant's going to sign up for that it's not viable to get financing for

it the numbers just simply don't work and especially when you've got um i don't want to say it's a matter of trust that's not the right phrase but the fear of the unknown it just doesn't work you're not going to have a lender that says i guess it's okay go build the building and so what if your property taxes are 18 to 20 dollars a square foot so we try to appeal to them to say look there is a way that you can apply this theory to the buildings that are there today with culver's and with a star

bucks building and sort of prove the point that you agree that this is a principle that applies not only for future buildings but on the current buildings and uh and that's where we're at a standstill the assessor just says we're not gonna do it we feel like we've reached a successful conclusion that 19 bucks it's not it's just under that and and that's where it's come to a standstill so you still have the situation where the assessor issue is still a very big issue uh the second issue is the gp

dp sorry to use that phrase mark but the property is controlled by a pud zoning as you may not know we i didn't i frankly didn't even hear this phrase before uh this project we normally just call it pud or whatever but this is a gpdp and it really defines what can and can't occur within the project and the gpdp the way it's drafted today the zoning criteria for the project today just doesn't work there's not it doesn't enable the property to be developed with what is out available in the market

that might work for the development so what we've been doing is trying to get some users to come in knowing that they can't qualify under the current zoning but viewing it that the modifications are not severe that they are things the city that you guys would probably say that makes sense and planning would probably agree with and uh so this again it's a little bit of a chicken and egg where we know some of those things that would be helpful to change we've tried to convince some users to go alo

ng with hey let's try and do a deal and let us move forward um but they're not a patient bunch you know it's time kills deals and users are more when you say well hey this will only take us nine months to get this done they're not gonna wait around and especially when you have market conditions that change other properties have become available covet and things like that it's just something that has become a obstacle to being able to get some deals put together just because again we can't make s

ome of those projects work based on the current drafting of the gpdp um and so that's that's an issue the third issue is time kills deals i already mentioned it's kind of the same thing and and i know it's a reasonable process to say this is what you got to go through and that can take eight nine months or whatever else to do it but i'm just letting you know that that's not the market the market is just not that patient to enable us to go through that kind of a long period of time even though th

at does seem to be fairly you know known that that's a it's a longer process than normal and the last thing just is the market you know market's been tough and and it's a little bit where we've started off from day one battling to get an anchor in the project and there's just not a lot of anchors that have been out there i mean you've probably heard the rumors we've shown it from to everyone from home depot to winco and all these people that said i want to be in denver or i want new locations in

denver and they just didn't pan out and even the grocery operators we've talked to many of them and we still have hope to get a couple of them that might be interested in it but there's a lot of competition there and so it's a little bit of trying to get the right grocer it's not as if we're in a grocery desert we're not so it's trying to get the right grocer convince them to come and that is one right now that the only part of the project that's viable for them to go would be the northern part

of the commercial area and we can't fit them per the current zoning the gpdb so that's back to that same condition and again they're they're moving quick it's like hey if we have to wait eight months then fine we'll go pick another site so and i'm rambling and i'm sorry but i guess i'll finish up by saying um just that is that the market is constantly changing tremendously covered through a big loop into things the way people even go to restaurants these days is different a couple more drive-th

roughs probably would be necessary uh even though they might be sit down restaurants and things so there are some things i guess wouldn't i'll summarize it by saying what we'd like to try and do is figure out a method to work with the city to make some modifications to the gp document and try and do that in a way that's not such a lengthy exhaustive process but something that may be a little bit more nimble that we can work with your planning department and figure out what uses and ideas might b

e acceptable and try and figure out a way to make that some of those changes adaptable to users and what's happening with the market today and not look at you know we're going to do this and take eight months or nine months and we might miss some of those opportunities in that period of time so again it's a great site but it definitely has uh continuing challenges with the property well i know one thing you mentioned that there's been you know definitely the council has had interest in your conv

ersations with the assessor i know weekly scott and i meet uh with the city attorney and the same manager scott i think you bring it up pretty much every every week yeah so it's yeah so we kind of feel where you are on that and i wish it was better news on that end council where do you want to begin what would zoning would you like to go to well the p the sorry they use the phrase gpdp is not so bad it's just what it has is an example it has a condition in a northern part of the property that yo

u can't do a building that's greater than 22 000 square feet that's our really best pad for anchor it's up there there's no anchors at 22 000 square feet right now they're all greater size again we're not looking there's no way to fit a 90 000 square foot anchor anything remotely close to that you know so it's not a big change we're talking about modifications we're not talking about big revamps so the ideal situation would be to basically go through that document revise it to like i said i thin

k keep it a pud in place but just modify the pud that's a little bit more even based on current activity there is current activity there's current interest just trying to do that in a way that is soon if possible uh so that some of these things might be able to be secured and i one thing i left out myself fill you in even alfalfa's and we appreciate what you guys did for alfalfa's and trying to get mollies into that project uh we fought our brains out for a couple years trying to get alfalfas in

there and uh they had difficult difficulties that they were heading in a great direction up until december and they had some things going on that would have really made it a great project a very secure anchor uh bringing in mollies i mean it was heading the right direction and some decisions were made that you know by what they were doing that didn't go well and now they're out of business so unfortunately we lost that one but that still has enabled some interest to remain with some other users

but it's the same thing we still need some modifications to the gpdp to accommodate those users so so would that mean they would apply for a rezone is that in essence yeah in essence that's what it would be you know it's a very lengthy process to get to the point where they're at now so it'd be a public process to amend all that but you know we welcome that conversation and i don't doubt the planning staff has probably talked to jack a little bit about that already so what's the rationale for u

h limiting the square footage of that north side you know i just i don't know the history of that this is before my time and quite honestly you may have two people in the room yeah three maybe what i was going to say it was when years ago the it was because residential was over there for one that in that centennial it was kind of a friendly thing but the plan was normally that you would have a larger building say set back from broadway and it was pretty large it was a relatively large pad yeah t

he original plan and keep in mind and this is not any way you know throwing watt under the bus because watt didn't know what the market would merit for the property so when watt came in to develop the site originally they planned on the big anchor to go on what's known as lot h where uh that the new group of apartments are about to be built and that's where we had a number of large anchors that were looking at that winco and stuff they decided not to come to the market but that was where the anc

hor was originally intended and what we were getting were users that are more in the 40 000 square foot range and that's why we came to the conclusion is and oh yeah and they said oh we'll never go that far back that's too far back so we sold off lot h and then looked at moving the retail up a little bit further towards broadway and focused then on the activity that we had which was the 35 40 000 square foot users is there a hesitation to file his own application no but the reluctance is each ti

me we talked about it and again kudos to the planning staff so again i'm not critical of it is it typically is that conversation well you know that's going to take eight nine months or it could take a year and that's where uh anytime there's a user in tow they just say yeah that's too long i'm not i'm not waiting for that and that that's by why it's been problematic so what we're trying to figure out is a way to sort of make some changes so whether we lose these users but at least get it in a st

ate where you know we can still try and expedite it if there's a possibility of doing that but more tweaked the pud to where the where the viable uses might wind up being if that if i make sense i don't know if i worded that correctly here you still need an application though right i mean we can't act without a re-zone request right we talked about doing a p4 to come in and get your sense of would you guys be comfortable if we did you know 36 000 or 40 000 square foot user on that northern piece

would you be comfortable with a write in right out was another example off of dry creek but to go through a few things that were more requests from prospects that were looking at the property and then go back to planning with your thoughts on a p4 so that we've been trying to figure out a way where we might be able to make those modifications in a quicker approach and that's one of the things why we wanted to chat with you today to figure out what could we do to try and do something more at a a

t a quicker pace if that's doable so the process just for council certification it's the same way it's a gdpd but the process for amending it is is the same thing that council recently experienced with evergreen so it is the exact same criteria that you would apply to this amendment um i know that the gdp has been amended over time maybe it might be back in 2015 would have been the last time that it came in but it went through that entire process again so when we're talking about that we're talk

ing about you know kind of the neighborhood meeting scheduling it in front of planning commission have at least enough investment in terms of you know kind of sketch out in terms of how the uses are going to look in various locations and then whatever you know height variances are being requested those are the types of things that would have to come forward in the pd so i don't know if there's a shortcut we don't have an administrative process for for that type of of changes that would be contem

plated i mean kind of minor things you know staff can do but you know moving one use from one location to another um changing kind of the square footage requirements that are already in existence at least at this point maybe it changes through the uluc process that the city is working on i i don't know that but i know that littleton has always wanted to be pretty transparent as it relates to developments in the community so we'll have to see how that kind of plays out as we over the next few mon

ths but i don't know if there's a shortcut right now yeah and let me just comment from the residential district's perspective on development i've got another script for himsdale so but just so that people know we view finding a way to expedite the commercial development is very important to the residential district at this point in time were the residential district is is bearing the brunt of the infrastructure debt at this point in time also the city is foregoing any sales tax revenue that woul

d be coming from undeveloped property and so when jack is talking about moving square footage from our perspective we're looking for what the master developer had promised council back and i think was actually 2014 when watt came to the council of restaurants and grocery store and having a walkable community and that's what i hear all the time i cannot walk on a sidewalk to not hear that within the residential district and the commercial development and you you all understand the economics it wo

uld be a win for the city it could be a win for the districts it'd be a win for the county and it'd be a win for the residents and anything that council or the city can find to help expedite the process anything you can find to help expedite the process will be gloriously endorsed to get a restaurant more restaurants and phil as you know council's receptor of that kind of stuff because council has made changes to that property i've seen at least four plans for the whole entire property and i've

seen the flyers i've seen it all uh but we can't start without an application or at least a p4 and so i think that would be a great start coach jack and his team yeah so that they can work with your process because uh it's it's one that um i can tell you if we had a grocery store tomorrow for many of the folks that are there would not be too soon i'm sure the residents would love it and scott and then i i understand that district 2 has recently gone to a lot of effort to decouple from district 3

because of financial liabilities can you tell me about that there were not it's the decoupling was always anticipated as far as the districts because district one was established with the endorsement of the council basically to allow for the infrastructure construction through a metro district process i'm hopefully don't have to explain to you that metro districts are being used across the state of colorado because municipalities and counties are not flat cash rich to be able to provide that pu

blic infrastructure construction on the front end and it was always designed that district 1 would go away but when district 1 was established it was the master it was the administrative district and districts two and three let me clarify i'm talking about uh district two and three not one district two and three were always separate districts uh they were not they were not together so uh the separation has been from district one yeah the add to that is that district three has its own uh maintena

nce fees and everything else that comes in from the mill levy and you know until we get more development we're assessing maintenance fees on the property owners at this time too but a lot of our meetings were just that we weren't dealing with the same aspects so it kind of even benefited so that district 2 had their own meeting district 3 has our own meeting let me try this again from what i understand from hearing from citizens resident residential people they believe that the metro district do

esn't have any money to pay for fixing the hinsdale hole because all of the money had to be spent on attorney's cost to break the ties with district three so could you shed some light on why i might have been hearing that there's usually something behind something like that i don't know trish i mean not the rationale uh that was was out there uh at any point in time carol okay completely untrue all right i think it's untrue we actually had to do a boost the maintenance fees in order to cover for

district three to cover the legal fees uh for the split yeah so yeah the part that is true is that the districts in the financial structure that was put and many folks have read about metro districts in colorado they underset the fee structures uh initially and were hoping to move out of that by adjusting some of our fee structures now but there's been deferred maintenance that has occurred within the district as far as landscaping and some aspects of common property sidewalks that are out ther

e that we have to take care of as district responsibilities okay we don't need to go into that thank you scott the panel yeah my two cents is that if there's a way forward with the commercial aspect of this metro district i'd like to see a formal reason application in front of council as soon as possible um i would not like to see a p4 for the simple reason that um it may not be this council that decides on the rezone application and you may get guidance in one direction from the six of us or se

ven depending on when that would happen and you may end up with a different vote um when the application is actually decided upon but everybody's got an interest if again there's a way forward for the commercial and blazing that trail let's get on with it i'd like to see the application asap please um i agree with what scott's saying i i think this has been dragging get the application in as soon as possible and there's doesn't seem to be any shortcuts what i think holds things up is citizens do

n't want it and we get lots of emails and calls if the citizens of this area want it then the resistance may be just minimal i don't know but it could be and that's what kind of gets everything riled up so i agree with scott the sooner we can get the stuns in anticipation of another large anchor coming six to nine months seems like a long time but it's already been so long and it will go fast and i agree with these two definitely let's get it moving and i would um counter that i have um quite a

few people that live there and they are dying for commercial they are begging for it really good commercial they want a local walkable community you have a great mix used uh mixed use development there you have the apartments above that space that's all i mean i have so many ideas about some cool restaurants or a brew pub or whatever that can go in there and you can spill out into the sidewalk you've got that dog park there's a bunch of people out there every single night those people love that

community they really do but they are desperate they're really desperate for good good development so i agree with these guys whatever whatever help you need to get this move in quickly on one board and i hope it's and i hope it's good developments yeah really good good go back one step and i'm sorry to digress but um that the the one hesitancy of doing that has been the assessment issue it's been a showstopper and that was when you guys approved alfalfa's the reason that didn't fully go through

was they were ready the lease was ready everything was ready but they were freaking out because you know just tell you the numbers they were going to pay we were subsidizing the rent we figured out kind of a creative way to get their rent subsidized frankly it was the solar panels and all kinds of other things we thought were going to be kind of a pretty cool thing for the project that would also help subsidize uh alpha alphas mali's their rent was 14.52 cents a square foot but to build the bui

lding would have normally if you had no incentives would be over 30 bucks a square foot i mean i'm just giving you the degree of subsidy built into that deal the fear they had is what if the assessor does it based on the cost of the building at 30 bucks a foot our taxes could be 15 bucks a square square foot more than our base rent so that's a show stopper and and that's where we got the from the assessor we'll go ahead and build it and then you'll see what'll happen and that's just not ever goi

ng to happen so that still is a cloud that hangs over this and again i know that you guys have tried i think even the county county commissioners have tried but we're just stuck we kind of said again if you can apply that principle what you say you agree with on the culver's building and on the starbucks building then that gives some peace of mind that now you've set a precedent and that would help resolve the issue but they you won't do that that's great thank you uh yeah and this council knows

the importance of commercial residents i think they they purchased there with that in mind so we recognize at this point when we hear from them all the time often i should say so uh i look forward to some plan we'll go patrick then we'll go scott answered i said you know it still seems like we got to work through the assessor piece and that's you know you're kind of but again i'm with scott and with the rest of the group let's at least take care of the the rezoning piece of it right and in the

meantime maybe we get some new county commissioners that can get involved i don't know but some something has to give on that on that side what's the magic number do you think uh per square foot is it is it you got down to 19 but obviously the lower figure out yeah i mean so it varies with every building every building is going to be different so when when a tenant says hey my rent's 14.50 a square foot then my property taxes ought to be x amount right and they look at market you know what's ano

ther grocery store paying per square foot and what is another starbucks pay per square foot and you know starbucks frankly could be paying you know nine bucks to 12 bucks a square foot the dentists in there never pay 18 bucks a square foot that's where you've got to look at it and say a little bit more comparable to the average rents of the building and then compare that to the market and that comes out when you would appraise a building which is what the assessment's based on what's the market

say where this building want to be assessed and that's where things went awry and how they're just not doing it that way and i'm sorry i know i'm getting way geeky and down in the weeds with this but that is the struggle right right now when we go to scotland i think you got another one and then maybe go to our next subject yeah um you know the mayor and i have talked at length with the city manager specifically with regard to the possibility of alfalfa's coming in at one point and i sympathize

with you i was frustrated by it but what i suppose i didn't ask about and maybe you can shed some light is was that assessment rate known at the beginning of this and um why are we just hearing about this with regard to littleton village because i mean it's just not it's not politically viable it's not otherwise viable for the assessor to go around uh taxing every potential development out of resistance what's the path forward there i mean it's got to be reckoned with how do we recommend it yeah

it's actually not something that ever comes up because what developers look at or tenants look at is hey it's going to be markets market you know it's going to be pretty comparable in lakewood or or here in i'm sorry in jeffco arapahoe county or adams county and it's not and that's why tenants don't usually say well they'll say what do you think my property taxes will be and as a developer you'll put together a projection based on the rent and the value of the building and kind of look at it ho

w every other county would look at it assuming arapaho would do the same thing but that's where it got thrown for a loop it was just assessed in a really more uh different approach mostly on the cost approach of the property and so much of the market value and that's where again it gets kind of geeky where you get into economic obsolescence but bottom line is that's where it has become an issue in arapahoe county and where those property taxes are being assessed at a higher rate let's say a new

construction versus a similar building in jefferson county or atoms and we put together comps for the assessor and said look at what this grocer is paying here you know lucky's building was a great example they built a brand new building before they went under up in jefferson county on 38th avenue i think it was and i think their property taxes were four dollars a square foot and we were worried that this assessor would assess this building in 15 square foot so that's the kind of fear that is go

ing on right now bad joke but maybe maybe make this all part of jeffco but i am what i'm trying to say is it it is different it's the assessments came out differently than what we're seeing in the other counties i'm going to ask this question but i'm pretty sure i know the answer is there anything that the residents can do as far as coming together and cleaning their case to the county assessor i know this isn't bill's been battling hard and i think you may have been around when we were original

ly doing this centennial came out in huge opposition to development of that property and they even had a city council member come to one of our meetings i can't remember his council or planning commission uh you know asking us not to do this and then within months they revitalized the south clinton so yeah i'm sorry phil they were hypocritical on some of it kelly i've sat down with county commissioners um three of them and they control the assessor's budget at this point in time they've all been

shown some of the comparables that scott's asked about essentially scott from a layman's perspective i would say the comparables show that the assessor in arapahoe county is valuing the properties two and three times the comparables two to three times the comparables and so that information has been shared um don't know if we should do a show of force and uh outside the assessor's office but the commissioners have you know they're the ones that control the assessor's budget so uh if they can't

do much uh they at least control their purse strings so at this point in time i don't know what more can be done all right but let's move on to our next topic okay um thank you folks thanks i'm sorry city attorneys wants us to ask just curious um the effect that the current mills that are being assessed from one of the mentor districts are having in conjunction with the the assessment issue i mean you're at 55 mills we're over 50 plus uh let's say that now 90 whatever your mills are i think they

're 98 or something like that i'm forgetting where they're at today but just from the metro district's assessment it's it's 50 50. and on top of that it's not enough to cover some of the maintenance costs so we're still putting a maintenance fee on the property owners and frankly they're not well i don't know this for sure last i heard they weren't necessarily passing that on to the tenants because they knew the tenants would never pay it but it's that big a burden but that's where you know i th

ink starbucks has now kicked in something um and we've remained in touch with that property owner because we're trying to fix the issue for them because it like i said it would set a precedent for the whole project but bottom line is that's why it's just such a big number that tenants say i'm not paying that that's that's insane so sorry phil that's okay uh thank you to the council for putting us early uh hopefully we aren't gonna make your evening too late so that you avoid the super moon as we

ll as lunar eclipse uh 4 45 to 5 30 tomorrow morning the littleton village metro districts were established uh with the endorsement of the city somewhere circa 2014 2015. and district 1 was established basically to facilitate the construction and all of the contracting and up until january 1 of this year districts 2 and 3 were merely advisory to the district 1 board and with that districts two and three i have the responsibility for the infrastructure debt payment that is there i won't get into

all the details of the structuring of that but it is significant in what it has what it does and the mill levees as jack has mentioned are significant as well uh the city provides guidance review and inspection regarding the rehabilitation of the 77 acres of littleton village as well as some low level of inspection on the construction of the infrastructure which deals with the public utilities streets and drainage as far as when i talk about that prior to 2018 whatever acceptance the city was to

provide for public utilities and drainage had been received by district one except for the streets although there was a preliminary acceptance back in december of 2016 and then the warranty on that was extended what was concluded as of june 16 2018 in 2018 the city provided a list of remaining street items to be addressed prior to acceptance later in 2018 those items were completed as reported by district one and gardner was the board member for district one he was the sole remaining board memb

er and he was a developer appointed board member so kind of gives you an idea he was not a resident of the district other than he did qualify by having a three foot square part of that with an intent to purchase there early in 2019 gardner resigned from the littleton village district one board his consulting contract with district one had expired and quote unquote all infrastructure construction had been completed again he was the sole member and he was the last member associated with the constr

uction of littleton village his public infrastructure uh his comment to me on departing from the city was that the remaining street items there were no remaining issues and the acceptance letter from the city was a formality on its way as the remaining items had been completed and inspected and as far from the residential folks we don't understand why the city did not then convey its acceptance in the fall of 2019 some noticed this is uh after there was some sinking of hinsdale avenue between lo

gan and littleton village drive and after a discussion i had had with the city manager our attorney provided a notice of claim in case the city ever wanted to [Music] have that option and preserve that as the streets are not part of district 2 nor are they part of district 3. in late 2019 or early 2020 i can't remember if it was december or january the city barricaded that section of hinsdale avenue and it remains barricaded today the sun sinking has grown to a sinkhole and there has been collat

eral damage to the littleton village park and the adjoining sidewalk and the dog park and that has occurred littleton village through jack as a member of the district one board now has offered to the city a sharing in the cost of reconstruction of the street and the collateral damage coming from the districts the shared costs from the districts would be included in the existing infrastructure debt from our perspective as the districts are essentially beginning anew and this addresses some of car

roll's point to address the deferred maintenance that district 1 did not necessarily see fit to conduct on community properties and we're working to establish an appropriate process for operational reserves as well as a reserve study to value the status of the community property doing those things that would be prudent management of the districts but at this point in time there's no current resources within district 2 and 3. one side item i guess i already had is the residents have also observed

that the street is conducting a number of construction projects on repairing streets across the city or across town our request is for the city to provide the needed resources and to coordinate the repair of the street and the collateral damage where the city has barricaded the street for approximately 18 months we have offered a reasonable or what we think is a reasonable shared cost approach that recognizes our resources we can't do it if the city doesn't it's not going to happen thank you i

have a question and then we'll council can go around and i definitely want to get to our public's work and utilities director um it's my understanding that in early 2019 that when the city inspected the area they accepted a portion over by logan but not where the where there appeared to be some issues and so that part was deferred and with the city taking possession just reminder of everybody and our listeners is that the city once they they approve it and accept it then it's the city's responsi

bility city never as my understanding has never accepted this portion for because there was construction issues and at that point let me throw it to keith so uh sorry keith reese republic works and utilities director um you know phil's timeline is correct but i don't think it has all the context to the timeline that it actually adds the real infor some of the information to this so in 2017 um the warranty we usually have a one year warranty period which is actually 50 of what most jurisdictions

have most most jurisdictions have two year warranty periods and a minimum and in this case uh we did some the eventually what happened to the timeline is we did accept the streets we went into the inspections and we accepted the streets after satisfactory repairs east of south logan but it was very clear at that time that because of continuing construction traffic for the the apartments and the condos and you could clearly see deterioration in hinsdale at that time that we were not going to acce

pt that section of street until such time as that construction was concluded that's that is a well-documented path along the way since that time that you know that the street has continued to deteriorate nobody questions that um our current estimate to we went out and we've gone out and gotten estimates on our dime it's four to five hundred thousand dollars to fix the situation um the repair would be a situation where you grout it and then you build up from there you grout the base the district

did have similar problems inside the dog park and grouted and fixed the dog park at adjacent to this issue but but didn't do that in the street so the they've talked to us i mean we're well aware i mean none of us wants to have a street clothes whether it's you guys or us at any time so you know we got to get the street fixed at some point somehow um you know our engineering outside engineering firm has looked at this four to five hundred thousand to fix the problem um and uh you know simply put

the district is asking us to front the money to fix that and be paid back in 2037. partially paid back partially paid back in 20 37 of the 500 000 that's correct so you know we we did not accept this section of street um and you know and the other part of this is part of the what we talked about on the staff side is um part of the reason we're willing to talk about participating in this is yeah we did have transitions within within the city during that time um you know since that over that time

we've you know basically overhauled our engineering inspection staff um you know we've done all those things and we've met with their team throughout this process and so we're you know it's not we're willing to you know be part of the solution because we do want to get that open residents out there deserve it and also for the long term success like we talked about before this of the commercial side of the development and all that that's that's critical as well so um you know it's it's an infras

tructure problem we gotta come up with it fix it and um on the flip side we really don't have a half million dollars sitting in extra money uh half a million dollars is one-sixth of the streets budget that we have set aside for street maintenance in a year three million dollars so that would be one six of our entire budget to do that so um why was the contractor who built this road not sued and made to fix it what happened there the notice of claim has been provided uh it's now the city's option

this district two does not have the streets and so it's it's not it's not even in our control to be able to deal with that and so that notice was provided uh if that is deemed by the city to be a way to go but it dates back to the original guidance that the city worked on yes for the rehabilitation of the property scott yeah i guess let me ask a couple of questions i mean i understand i do civil litigation right that's my job only time i've ever heard the phrase notice of claim is in a colorado

governmental immunity act context where you have to send documentation to the governmental entities saying here's what happened to preserve your right to sue i've never in private litigation heard of a notice decline a notice of claim you simply file the terms incorrectly i'll let the attorney do it right we have no privity of contract with the contractor it does no good to say to the city here's our notice of claim the city i'm sure would have said why do we care it's your contractor go sue th

is contractor why was this contractor not sued and we did it was a construction defect notice of claim that we had sent um you know a lot of it was just you know we've got this situation out there based on you know some opinions that we'd gotten you know from gardner and and other folks at the time we didn't think there's probably not a strong case against these contractors this would and from what we found from the dog park this situation that was causing the subsidence in the dog park is so fa

r down that it was probably beyond the realm of what normal testing would have found at the time of construction yeah look i don't mean to push too hard uh i appreciate you all being here i appreciate we've got an issue that somebody needs to fix but um i would have liked council to test their theory about the strength or weakness of the case through litigation through settlement negotiations through alternative dispute resolution before they sat down in front of the council and asked for a half

a million dollars honestly i'm not that inclined to sort of take council's word for it that the case wasn't that strong well we don't have half a million dollars and it seems to me that if they built a road that immediately had a sinkhole somebody probably knew something about the quality of this construction yeah yeah so if you don't mind so are you through i'm sorry okay what has the district done to compel the contractor to remedy the situation um at this point we haven't pursued the contrac

tor has the statute of limitations run on this have you filed a claim for effective work we filed a notice claimed like you said that the statute of limitations has run okay any other so the 400 to 500 000 to fix the road what about any if it's sinking i'm sure that that's impacting i'm guessing sidewalks maybe even maybe it's not impacting the dog park because it's nice now that's what i mentioned as collateral damage yeah okay and then the building that the condos that are next to isn't impact

ing them at all any structural it doesn't seem to be okay at this stage kelly yeah in the in the uh in that four to five hundred you know obviously we assume that we have to do you know you got the sidewalk and curb and gutter that's been disturbed as well so you know you'd have to you'd have to address that at the same time so you know that that's in that number it's not just you know between the curve lines it's you have to do that additional work you know because if you don't it's just going

to continue to be back in the same condition it was so we would include that and can i add something that maybe you can chime in on this but um trisha's point i mean when you're doing soy borings and things like that you're typically not going to find something that's that that deep and that's why and again i don't want to pretend i know what i'm talking about on this so i want to ask you to chime in but that's why we're not so confident that uh it's a it's a defect of his work because it's some

thing that's way down deeper into the ground no i will agree that you know not having been here during a lot of the civil work um that went on out there i think everyone's in agreement that our engineers as well as yours is that this isn't a difficult site because it was used from an industrial perspective before this it is it is a difficult site and having built difficult sites before you know and and those kind of things and built here in the front range too you know with moving soils and ever

ything it's possible i mean but you're correct in the fact that you know you're not going to do typically do soil borings that are going to be you know any deeper than 15 feet typically unless you think there's going to be something significant you know mark if you want to add that too that's my experience and so that was where we went and said all right if we sue him he wouldn't have done a boring that would go any farther so it's not necessarily a you know microphone we're about a little nervo

us but in saying we don't know if we have a case but if we have a bad case and we spend a bunch of legal dollars fighting a bad case that's just less dollars it can go towards fixing the problem and that's where we kind of weigh the decision of saying this may not be the best way that dollars are spent because perhaps there's not a maybe there is but yeah but it's probably a weak case scott you know maybe you take it on contingency the this you can you can answer that question later okay the cen

tury condos that are next to it did do during their construction they did choose to do deep excavation and compaction as part of their construction that that's why um [Music] them that was a choice that they made we wouldn't have required that of them or anything that's a choice that they made because i know council member faye had a question and i'm sorry yeah i have two questions about two different levels um it was known uh just that there were tanks and tunnels storage tanks and tunnels unde

r that that whole complex because it belonged to marathon oil and that puzzled why um pouring wouldn't have been done to find tanks and tunnels the city wouldn't have ever undertaken that it was never our property so we wouldn't have done that i don't mean the city um the contractor it seems like part of if it was known that tanks and tunnels storage tanks and tunnels would likely be there wouldn't it be the contractor's requirement to look for that that's not something we would generally requir

e from a contractor on a site you know you're you're expecting the developer and the contractor to do what they need to do to you know construct an effective solution then more much more recently after the road was marked closed the century development was ongoing and residents had reported to me that construction vehicles were using that road regularly even though it was marked as closed and that the metro district wasn't interested in what their residents were reporting um so does that pull in

century for responsibility apparently there are pictures of that happening i i you know i can't i don't have that information in front of me so i don't know i mean it's i it's not the first time i've been in a construction site and seen a contractor pull up barricades and move stuff right certainly so we know that kind of thing happens yes but are they responsible let me weigh in on this i i'm surprised that that was anyone's observation because the barricades are actually large cement barricad

es that would have taken more than a pickup truck to move early on we i mean you know early on they were you know typical type three barriers but now they're you know you got jersey barriers out there nobody's getting through out there unless they got a really big monster truck i guess you know so but early on there was some movable stuff uh during the initial construction but yeah now you couldn't do that so you know that's all i have today can you explain what you said a moment ago because it

sounded like you said on a neighboring property they did deep core samples and that doesn't seem like some coincidence it seems like they knew that this site was probably problematic that would be you know up the developer that did the century condos i mean we wouldn't have required that and that that's their choice on their site so we have not looked at their soil borings to see what they did we'd have to ask them for that information that's not something that we have done um but they made that

choice and during their construction on their own i would add though too you gotta think it's two completely types of construction right you're talking about a four-story building right versus a road and that's why again i'm not i'm trying to avoid coming off like we're litigating this and i think our city our city manager has some experience here having done foundation design my guess is that what was likely occurring is that the sentry property they were coring to a depth to understand the ba

sed on the height of the building and a soil type and trying to decide how much to over x material because it's not stable enough to actually provide the foundation it's very common practice to over excavate and remove all that material and actually bring back in perhaps even new material you can actually recondition the existing but my guess is that the the the soil samples the coring was just only relevant to that yeah i mean we did that at 19. we had over excavated for station 19 for example

yeah that's a good example that's a site specific decision trail mart fire station we had to over excavate 30 feet oh it's quite a waste yeah yeah yeah i i'm gonna ask the million dollar question uh why is the district asked asking the city to pay i mean i think part of it is um you know and again i don't want to argue that the point of acceptance and when it should have been acceptance and accepted and you know subdivision improvement agreements and those sorts of things but the bottom line is

the districts are not financially capable on their own today to fix the fix this problem and so really we're looking for again some sort of partnership so that we can come to a resolution with the city to get this fixed for the residents out there um and that's a pretty big ask of the citizens the citizens of littleton to pay for this street defect um i have a question for you um have you guys considered um a special assessment on the property owners in order for them to pay either in full or pa

rtial amount of this construction these costs i think we already have special assessments to try and deal with deferred maintenance on the rest of the properties that are out there cayenne one that i'm i'm yeah but picking up on that it can't be i mean it's 15 million dollars of debt is what was taken to do this project it's a it's a ton of debt that was saddled on them so when you look at what they're already being assessed in property taxes mill levees commercial and residential it's a huge bu

rden and it's that's the point we don't see it as a defect it's more of a freak thing where this was a cave in way down below so it's like any other neighborhood if you had a big sinkhole and you know some other part of littleton it's more of a freak thing rather than bad work by a contractor is what our belief is but it wasn't it's not an accepted street yeah i mean we we can we can differ on the opinion for that i can tell you where the residential folks are that i talk with which is the city

has been issuing tickets along the streets the city's provided snow plowing the city's accepted every other public infrastructure there was a preliminary acceptance it went two years that was still in 2018 before there was any evidence of a sinking or a settlement in the street so kelly you can talk about the legal position i will talk about the ethical position that is perceived by the citizens of littleton they do want police service out there whether we own the property or not scott did you h

ave a question because it was kelly because i thought i saw you yeah if if the commercial uh were to get on its feet could the metro district have the money to fix this issue i understand that's a pretty long-term idea but i personally find that quite a bit more palatable in my position as a council member and you know i promise i say that with all the sympathy to the residents out there they did not sign up for this um but i think in a very literal way not having accepted the future maintenance

of this infrastructure neither has a city yeah and i mean i haven't run the numbers um you know i think if the commercial development were to get off the ground i mean obviously that would help the assessed value in district number three and alleviate some of the financial constraints that district number three has that could maybe then help the situation um but you know i haven't put numbers to it as an attorney you don't want me putting numbers to things but um you know that's something that

we haven't really dug down into but from a conceptual perspective yes i i have two things um the citizens are paying for 50 mils in addition to the metro district which is a fair amount of money they've been paying that for five years i think where did that money go most of it is going towards debt toward debt okay and then the next part of you you spoke of ethical i think it's kind of unethical to use the fact that the city is providing police service and other snow plowing and other services o

ut there as a reason why the city should let me finish should do more because i had to work really hard to get those services for the residents they didn't have them and the city agreed to do it so using that against the city is not playing here carol do not let's let him talk let's not respond he doesn't get to start it with a carol as if he's lecturing me jerry yes okay as far as where folks are feeling is they feel like they're part of littleton they want to feel part of littleton and they ar

e part of littleton they are and rightly or wrongly there are items that we've dealt with at a district level in working with the city around streets parking issues trying to get uh actually i'm sure we aren't the only set of streets in the city that are dealing with folks driving way too fast we've had issues with folks going wrong way on one-way streets and such and from a district 2 perspective we're having a hard time just trying to deal with the deferred maintenance that was not taken care

of when district one was taking care of all the contracting that's there and so we have an overhang and we're trying to responsibly deal with that okay what the residents are is call it freak call it a construction item but no one in the residential area had anything to do with that construction that was deemed to be something part of the master developer and district one and so i appreciate your position kelly on that question but but i want to let you know that the residents the the people the

re the roughly planned out 1900 residential union or 900 excuse me residential units for littleton village had had absolutely nothing to do with this and they can point to points where the city has been involved in the inspection process and taking a look at planning and the various different components that were there and planning it out so i i just want to say from the resident's perspective they're looking in the city and saying help in asking that question too is to make it very well known t

hat um not losing my train of thought but that um we had to find a solution and so i i'm just asking and i know that i have friends that live there and i don't want them to have to pay more but it's got to be fixed it's got to be fixed before we go this is i don't have a question but i have a comment listening to all this it seems the sense is although we're not making decisions tonight the city doesn't have the money the metro district doesn't have the money so there needs to be other options g

o for the commercial some sort of grant from the federal government i don't know and i'm sure you've looked at that but maybe it just needs to be pursued more so and i don't know what i don't have a solution can i make a comment on that as far as that recognize the district 2 and district 3 don't own the streets so trying to get a grant for where we don't care we're not reporting but i don't know what that but the city but the city can't that's why we're looking for the city to help so the city

could get a grant a grant probably unlikely okay just just because of the nature of the problem i get to scott to the crowdfunding no it sounds to me like this road was gonna eventually go down even though we we talked about the construction traffic going back and forth on it just sounds like it wasn't on solid solid foundation from the very beginning and it eventually sunk so i sympathize for your position right now and i'll look forward to i don't know if this executive session that we uh talk

about this further or how that works well we'll do a couple more questions here we'll go scott and carol and then uh then i got something to say yeah phil then your comment actually i have a lot of sympathy for that you're exactly right these people who live in littleton village had nothing to do with this and um it makes a certain sense that they're reaching out to the city uh i would do if i were living over there i i might i might have a little bit more appetite if the offer were different y

ou know right now it's basically give us half a million dollars it just doesn't uh the metro district's not doing anything it says what is it 20 30 70 or something we'll give you 150 000 i mean uh if there's something the metro district can do to uh carry more we could trade you you take on the 19 million of debt and we'll probably do something i think that's the issue is that the burden is so huge and it's above and beyond what other littleton residents pay because they're paying for the roads

that what did that's really what's going on is they're paying for all that infrastructure already so the theory was down the road and that burden starts to lighten is when and if you want to residential district i mean whatever district it would have had responsibility for the roads early on um i don't know which one that is but um and i would i would definitely want the city to do some due diligence in looking into the metro district's books uh if we're being asked to pay 500 000 i'm not just g

oing to take anybody's word that there's no money here uh it's also if i'm not mistaken i mean it's public it's a metro district we should be able to do that but yeah there's got to be something that the metro district can do not the residential metro district but another one to uh attend cary board burger and just to kind of let you know the residential district is carrying almost all of that debt carrying cost and in the absence of what had been planned as commercial development to repay the i

nfrastructure debt we're behind and in 2020 we we did not [Music] cover the carrying costs with the mill levies that are out there so just to let you know we're continuing to move behind and to relate it to the first part the only way we start to get ahead is with commercial development which will change the valuation on those properties and we're looking for that to increase substantially around that debt repayment tomorrow is the day that a reason application ought to be filed yeah all right w

e'll go councilmember faye then maybe i'll do some closing stuff here mark uh we've we've heard kind of the question of who owns that street with the implication that the city is responsible for is the city legally responsible for that section of street well i i think uh reid would probably being the city attorney should ask that answer the legal question you know my i think just based on the conversation we've had internal aides that we are not legally the owner of it and who is it would be the

metro districts metro district okay they have a different opinion about that and i certainly respect that i think that's kind of the issue is can can we somehow get past that because of all the other surrounding issues is there a deal to be had here and i think that's kind of the the essence of the question thanks to my suggestion all right i guess what i'd like to say at this point is is is for the city and the district to to get together and talk a little bit about what could possibly be done

that we can help out there's definitely some responsibilities here that i'm not sure belong to the city but they are citizens of middleton um so is there is there something that maybe the city can get with these folks and just we can really tear this thing up and see what's going on yeah i guess um kind of take your point there mayor i think if if there's council's okay with this to perhaps bring back a more structured action item for the council around some cost sharing of this i think i would

like to explore the question that scott asked them about whether or not there is some other additional repayment that could be made once the commercial is further along with some kind of redevelopments a financial issue that they would have to look at so could that somehow add to their contribution in essence so if there's something to be had there then you know maybe there is a deal that could be brought back here to the council for formal actions so i'm kind of looking to you jack trish phil

is there something that could be discussed so that there'll be a future meeting that you guys can get together yeah you know we'd play that out and um in pretty short order okay all right anybody else have anything are they completely they've been gone for how long have that project two years close to three yeah okay is this considered a latent defense attorneys that's the argument that we don't think of them yeah it's difficult well then let's let's have a a caucus sometime with the district ye

ah i just want to make sure council is okay with that if you have a real concern let me know otherwise we're going to get figured out there are citizens of littleton over there so we want to make sure we're working to help them out bad deals happen sometimes um that's all i have to say anybody else have anything else at this point that whole assessor thing i know we've dealt with it before but that seems to be an issue and nothing can be done i mean maybe we can't do something but can people sue

or so i mean how can these uh assessor's office get away with exorbitant rates i don't understand and nobody can control that well i think um there's a lot i probably could share maybe in another meeting not at the moment here we just have other business here jack and i have talked about this at length for years now i've been in meetings with jack and the assessor and county commissioners so how do we get unstuck is the question i don't know the answer to that that's one piece i think i would b

e certainly would offer to sit down with jack and our planning staff to try to figure out what is the path to somehow amend the plant development so that we can as you said be more nimble i certainly would welcome that conversation so i think it is in everybody's interest somehow move all these things forward here in some form and i think but honestly that's why you're here this evening is to make that request yeah i think if we could talk about it and maybe it gets to uh face to face with you a

nd i and if the mayor sat down with the assessor now that kobits you know coming out and doing in-face meetings it just might help to sort of go to them and like i said i think there's a resolution we just can't get over the hump on that but maybe if we're on a room maybe there's a way to resolve that and it seems like the assessor it's this rezoning piece it's i mean it there's a lot of simultaneous things going on at the same time yeah so a lot of parts it's not like one solution it's like thi

ngs going it's all about uh insurance and act of god uh for something like this you know nobody expects a tornado hit but you can collect insurance here we look have you looked at anything i assume that the project has some type of insurance i don't know what that insurance that would be but now i'm saying i'm from district 2 the residential district so anything that had to deal with the infrastructure council number or a pro tem sorry yeah that's a good question um so if i'm a potential tenant

i'm not just looking at the sales tax um i'm looking at the entire expenses of incentives portfolio is there anything that the city could be thinking about that would um potentially attract um some some tenants you know we've done okay sales tax share backs in the past are you okay with the media or is this this tax issue with the arapahoe county assessor is just so overwhelming it's a it's huge and that's the question is how much in the weeds do you get in that for example let's say you've got

a 3 000 square foot tenant that says i'm not coming and my taxes are 18 bucks a quarter foot um you say hey we'll share back some of your taxes with you or something your sales taxes you know i don't i don't know but i mean you're talking about as phil said two and threefold of what that same tenant would pay somewhere else so that's why it's been such a such a burden and like i said i think there's a verbal resolution by saying hey we could look at applying the economic obsolescence factor and

determine what that in other words they said go build it and we'll apply that factor and all we're saying is you can apply it now and prove that you believe in that theory which means you'll take the starbucks building and bring that down to eight nine dollars a square foot then now we know there's a precedent tenants will be comfortable and that's where we're at a standstill is that they're not willing to accommodate the existing buildings with that same theory and can they give you any reason

why no they give you no they've given you no reason you know again the theme it has been it's 18 in something just under 19 bucks that they that is where starbucks buildings at today they view that as a success that hey we did we succeeded by coming from 25 to 18 and change and that's where the property owner is still going through appeal after appeal because it's not but that's where the assessor views that is hey we did good by that situation and that's the struggle well carol have last questi

on and i'm going to wrap her up mark you said you were in those meetings um reading between the lines and using your experience and everything what do you think is the reason that the tax is the tax out of line for what the reasons the assessor's given i'm not a an expert in that but it seems to me what i hear is they're locked into a methodology and they're not wanting to let go of it they in their minds it sounds like they have good reason to hang on to it and i don't know if that's fair jack

but that's kind of how i hear them and can you somehow get a different resolution i don't know i have some ideas but it will be politically difficult to say the least all right with that is that good so um if can you work with these guys absolutely and maybe do a little strategizing so we can do doesn't mean we're going to be flipping a bill here but they are the citizens of littleton and uh so we do need to look at that so absolutely because i know there's also other streets within the city uh

where there's people been in line waiting a long time and for something to move in front of them would be uh not very nice that's very nice so there's a trade-off so well thank you for coming in it's a different situation thank you appreciate your time and uh enjoy your holiday weekend and hope you can get to a barbecue where you can hug so much council ready for break huh come back 8 10. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Mus

ic] city [Music] [Music] thank you [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] bye [Music] so [Music] all right it is 809. we're a minute early we are back our next item is actually item b on our agenda it is id number 21-097 it's the proposed council goal eight good governance so we're going to hear tonight about organizational development initiative and continued council goal setting for 2021 through 2022 council we will be giving some direction to staff and then mainly i think it's going to be you're loo

king for a concurrence on what your plan is going to be and with that i'll turn over to city manager okay thank you mayor that's exactly right we're just good governance has been a goal here for the last few years and we have a update here on our organizational development customer service being kind of a core piece of this thing so we've been hanging on to this issue for a while i've been working through that but i'm going to turn it over to sam and noel and they're going to be presenting on th

is topic thank you mark so i'm sam fox assistant to the city manager tonight our objectives are to receive that update in organizational development we're going to review goal 8 and its proposed objectives and action stunts we'll also receive an update on the remainder of council strategic work plan and then as mark and the mayor mentioned we're looking for feedback and direction on all these items and i will turn this right over to noel who's going to give us an update on that organizational de

velopment initiative right noelle mink i'm the hr director it's very nice to be here and i know every department ahead says my topic's exciting but my topic is really exciting this update really glad to share it with you this framework shouldn't be new um you guys have seen this is introduced by our city manager in 2019 and it is our framework that we will use with our employees with projects council goals and objectives it's a way to move things through a system so that we can achieve all the t

hings that we'd like to achieve we're currently really embedding this in our organization so our employees can learn it and understand it knowing that their own personal goals are tied up in that and the same process can take place for them for individual goals as well as department council objectives and then we don't want to lose sight of our envision community values to my knowledge this is the first time a city has said hey we're going to do a plan like this and the values that come from it

we're now actually going to embed it in our culture normally something like this resides and it like pops up once in a while and says hey how are you guys doing and then it stays kind of segregated to where it was created but we are taking these values and making them foundational and fundamental in our culture they were chosen and selected through a process that had a lot of citizen input so we'd be really silly to ignore it and keep it in the small section cities don't normally do it so it's k

ind of cool i feel like cool exciting that we're taking a different perspective with all the works have been done and bring it over to the entire city so we have this formal project mission vision values mark calls it organizational development kind of one in the same depending on who you talk with we've been working on it in earnest since later part of 2019 council has been very supportive of it as we've done work the lion's share of the funds have gone to partnerships to help us complete this

work zps or zenith performance solutions have been really strong partners with us helping us go through this process and work with our employees work with our leadership team we anticipate to wrap this up because of kobe got stretched out a little bit first quarter of next year and it really will wrap up when we have our new annual performance evaluation that takes place in that first quarter of next year so we're working really diligently on there there's five uh milestones that we're working t

o achieve we've achieved some we're in flex on a couple that we're working on concurrently and we have a timeline and goals for all of those and really the goal of that is to create this values-based organization that gives employees a foundation it shapes our culture it gives them direction if they're on their own they can say how can i best serve the customer what's my value is it better to do this or better to do that guides a decision-making process for them when there's no one around or wha

t they feel independent to do the work on their own creating some common language among our organization so when we say like disney has one of their values it's called the show so if you say to a disney employee are you ready for the show means your shirt is tucked in you have a name badge on it means a certain thing so they don't have to say do you have a name badge are you ready did you clock in did you read the updates they said are you ready for this show and it incorporates it and all emplo

yees understand it and it has meaning to them and that's what we're looking to accomplish here through this formal project mark and i thought it might be good to zoom into this heart of the framework it really is the gears that make this whole leadership framework move and so as we look at it i think hr philosophy i could argue both ways is a mission vision value the gears and these items here kind of the grease that keeps things going or is it vice versa i think at the end of the day we would a

ll just say they're all really important having values and admission and vision and all these components that support our workforce all work collaboratively and together a lot of these are really familiar to you right total rewards our employees really enjoy this we enjoy advertising it because we have a very rich package but it includes all of these things that you typically see also our employee recognition program and other benefits like our employee gym that add value to our employees succes

sion planning and longevity this is about employees having a line of sight and where they want to go in our organization they're hired at a level one and their goal is to become a specialist maybe there's two steps in between there how do they get there what is the criteria when are they eligible what do they need to do what new skills certifications and when they see that line of sight to a goal they're going to stay with us and we're going to retain them and that really is the goal the other p

iece under that short and long-term career planning a lot of our organizations will say things like team hr we have a great team but changing that dynamic to say team littleton so we have someone in hr that eventually wants to be in finance or in it that we're retaining them for the city by providing opportunity i also think that we have an opportunity here to look at positions like our police officers our public work employees the nature of their job wears their bodies out much more quickly tha

n someone in hr who's kind of sitting at a desk what do we do to help prepare them so when their bodies are kind of like man paving roads i've kind of reached my limit physically to do that that they're ready to apply for promotional or cross-transfer positions within the city so we retain them all that knowledge that they can bring to a new position so we're really excited about that with the goal of attracting talent and then keeping the talent when we have it chief stevens do you agree that y

ou're being worn down yes and uh thank you for the futon i just put in my office okay i'm sorry to interrupt no that's okay so here is a piece that's obviously vital customer service in general training we've uh maybe not been so focused or diligent on that in years past and we're really trying to change that trying to make a culture where we can train our employees where they feel invested they feel poured into that there's more reasons besides just their paycheck that they want to stay so we h

ave some of the categories up here that are really important customer service training in a lot of different ways this is important the escalation all of those kind of things supervisory and leadership training supervisory being really tactical like someone was injured on the job what form should i fill out have an employee who's on fmla these really tactical things then leadership says how do i want to lead what's my philosophy when there's conflict with my staff how do i choose to resolve it s

o both of those are really important and then the rest you can know for sure i'm sure you've all experienced core skills such as excel or word training for someone who's an administrative support function it may be equipment training for someone in public works just these course skills uh risk the good old risk mitigation that's why you take ergonomics classes and what to do when you slip and fall so we want to help employees to be aware of safety and reduce risk and so these are the areas of tr

aining that we're focusing on i would say a year ago mark and i had a really specific conversation about this and if you went to the hr hub page we'd say training and here's like two or three classes if you go now it's very robust we have training tracks supervisory leadership inclusion problem solving so all of these different classes and different modalities and we want to just continue to grow that because it's still not enough but we're working on it another area is meaningful work i think i

t's impossible for an employee to be like everything i do i love but if they can say almost everything i do i love that is a huge win how do we provide meaningful work a huge piece for an employee is saying the work that i do i enjoy and it matters and so are we providing them stretch goals stretch tacit stretching their skill set that may make them eligible later for a career progression or promotional opportunity um cast to talent our hr department is really active in working with departments

to say yeah you have three individuals and they all are the same classification do we have cast a talent let's ask them what are they talented in and can we plug them into those spots for a better outcome is the work meaningful to the organization has to be a question right there's a lot of work i'd like to do that maybe mark would say no to right because it has to be meaningful to the organization that's really important and then of course is it anchored in strong customer service principles an

d servant leadership which we really want to talk about in servanthood and what that means to us and how that better serves our citizens consequential connections there's a book first discover your strengths and it says at work employees should have a best friend now being in hr uh i struggle with that because i've had co-workers who've been married get divorced and i've had two bffs break up and i'll tell you which one is more dramatic the best friends at work but there is something to be said

about a connection to other people but when you're experiencing things at home that peop you come to work and people care about you they care about your growth so just some examples up there having a connected relationship with my supervisor being able to speak openly and honestly and even when we disagree i still feel heard connection to my community about me caring for others and others caring for me and i think we saw a good example this very last one trust in leadership to guide me i'm conne

cted to them even when it's scary or i'm unsure and i think this last year really was an example of that through the coven situation and the way the leadership responded and the way the employees responded to us so having connections is really important uh safe inclusive and diverse some of these topics we've just recently really begin to talk about but there's a piece about safety that i'm safe from distress while i'm at work whether it's a boss who's always shouting at me or a co-worker who's

passively aggressively undermining me in a meeting that i'm safe from those things certainly things like active shooters workplace safety that we don't have wet floors that i can slip on without a sign that says hey wet floors right we want to protect all of those things uh and then am i welcome and accepted as i am do i see others in the workplace that look like me and do i see people who look different than me one of the things that i personally value and believe in is that i want any member o

f our community to come into this building or into any city building and see themselves replicated i feel like that's really important that our staff represents our community and is that happening and if it's not how can we look at that and tackle that so everyone can feel represented when they walk into the city building and then the last one is if you were to say a stretch or working on it is my organization dedicated in philosophy policy practice workspace to embrace all employees of every ba

ckground every ability to be welcome to work here and to contribute so i thought it might end with these last two slides to give you just a snapshot on how we're doing in these areas so the mission vision values so if that bar is all the way to the top it means we are good we're comfortable with it and what we're doing is analyzing assessing and then making calibrations to keep us in that sweet spot if we're at the bottom we have work to do so our mission vision values project we're about 50 don

e with it so we're kind of hanging out right there in the middle our total rewards which was all the benefits compensation we're in a really good place and we've seen that with support from council and the quality of applicants that we're receiving the number of applicants we're receiving and the number of people who are staying with us so it's really made a big difference in stabilizing our workforce career succession so that's building pathways for employees to say i want to stay here but i al

so want to be a specialist we're working on those plans with all of our departments kind of in various stages as they're ready for it so we've made a great deal of work um on that we definitely have the process in place that's easily done training and education this is the area that we're probably struggling the most in you'll notice in pdb if you look at the hr section we have about a quarter of an employee dedicated to training and so it's just not quite enough but we've made great strides and

so i anticipate that that continues to go up we have some creative solutions that we're looking towards for next year to increase all of our training and education meaningful work we receive a lot of feedback it's anecdotal at this point we do have plans to do an employee survey we're talking about doing it at the same time as the citizen survey thinking that it might be nice for council to see kind of both sides of the coin why are employees here what work do they enjoy doing why are they stay

ing what's valuable to them as you're hearing from our citizens as well kind of we'll give you both sides of the coin and i anticipate that meaningful work will be pretty high we get a lot of notes to hr notes from supervisors people saying they're enjoying their work they want to do more of it they do want to let go of like the ones the pieces that they don't enjoy as much but they're enjoying the work that they're doing the connection piece we're still working on that but we've made a lot of g

ains i think we're really challenged in cobin and we did things like coffee houses uh virtual because we realized that that connection of like filling up our coffees was really challenging how do we connect um and find connections with folks and so we did a lot of things during cobit that i think were really really helpful um and so we continue to do that and then the safe inclusive and diverse we're just kind of beginning that journey i'd say there's some of the same challenges of resources and

staffing but we have a plan to make even if it's slow but steady progress in all of these areas so our successes has to be said council support in so many different areas it's been paramount to our success in accomplishing these things the city manager his support his direction his insistence that we make movement in these areas has been really important and then his willingness to also talk about it in all team meetings which we try and do about every other month where every employee is invite

d to hear from the city manager of different department heads on various topics we have really solid partnerships which is a great way to go so we're not just asking for staff ads we're picking partners who help us who are current in the moment that have good information to give employees have a high level of trust in hr and again i'd say that that's anecdotal but i would anticipate that it would come out in an employee survey just because of emails that we get conversations that we have really

frequently with our employees and the employees are supporting the effort it's a lot of momentum right there they want to engage in it i'm always surprised at the number of engagements when we offer things so it's great a few of the challenges is just some of the resourcing the proper staffing and the tools needed to accomplish some of these things but we are working on some creative solutions that we hope to be able to bring to the city manager and back to council i think time and capacity is a

challenge you may hear that from staff always evaluating time and capacity and so that's a challenge in this area as well but we work through it and then lastly like change is hard right everyone loves change unless they have to change and so change is just hard and so those are some of the challenges and successes that we've made as we've gone through all of these different areas i wonder if you have any questions for me are people feeling comfortable coming back to the building for after cope

n yeah we well um my thought is that they are uh at the beginning you know we had a ton of questions and i mean the beginning of covent about what a return to work would look like but now that we've updated our mass policy and people are coming into the office to my knowledge no one in hr nor myself has received any concerns or complaints about that so it seems like folks are yeah are we back to a hundred percent or actually the next topic we're gonna get a little more detail look at that yeah o

kay perfect thanks patrick thanks kelly i know thank you um so i i i love the um the data points he gave um with um the staff voting on their feelings about total rewards and training and educational and um with the two questions actually i thought it was pretty interesting that it was a midpoint with the mission vision and values um is that because kind of retooling that message then for staff right now is that is that why yeah we had momentum and then covet happened and it really got put on pa

use where we took a period of time with just the energy around cobit and all the policies that had come out that it just took a pause and so ideally it would have been completed last year but with that pause so of the five milestones which i would say would put us at the top have completed those things we're about halfway through that with the understanding that we can check off all these milestones but the culture kind of takes it will take time of us reinforcing this over years for it to reall

y embed in our culture okay thank you and then um with the uh safe inclusive and diverse diversity what is you said there's a plan what is that plan yeah so uh you know when we tackle a topic like this uh equity inclusion diversity you can say hey we're going to create our formal plan and then it takes about a year to do that the approach that we're taking is we want to create this formal plan while taking advantage of organic opportunities and so we're doing that so we have a training track tha

t is starting discussion about it um without a whole lot of context from hr and those are areas that i've been like okay we're going to do the training let's just see the response and they every seat is filled in those so the organization is really anxious to engage in these discussions and then we actually just met with the city manager and my supervisor ashley bolton about what is our next steps and the steps that we need to take we want to start with an inventory where we meet with directors

and supervisors and say hey where where do you see that we have successes where are your concerns and start with an inventory to start introducing all of these topics you know i think that we've got feedback from employees who say you're moving way too slow on this we want much more quick movement and then we've had some feedback of people saying okay hold on a second can we talk about this a little bit more and so i think there's a balance i think that this is an area that's at times wrought wi

th robust discussion and people really feeling something about it so we want to take the time to do it it's hard because it's also an issue of the heart right when we talk about things like equity or inclusion so how do we give people time to deal with it that way while providing education i think it's a balance we're trying to strike i appreciate you getting that conversation going yeah absolutely we're excited about it we've actually already partnered with two people we're just calling them pa

rtner professors because i don't know quite what to call them but knowing that some of these discussions we need uh diversity in the room to discuss and in our organization that's not always possible we're really caucasian organization so how do we have those discussions and those being represented so we're partnering with educators who help us represent those populations so we can talk about it while they're educating us so we've partnered with george lee and toya green in two different areas a

nd they're helping to work with our staff so we're starting it for sure thank you i hadn't heard the hr term servant hood before where did that come from and what what does it mean so that's an idea that i think that we talk about a lot in the leadership for me personally i bring it forward because the idea of serving a community and servanthood is fundamental uh for me personally um with my staff and i think that helping people who maybe came to the organization because they're like yeah this j

ob is really cool and not really understanding that we're serving the community customer service is always good but if you have the focus of servanthood first to serve our community to serve our council to serve our co-workers it does change and how we approach things and the way we we may choose to solve things certainly in the way we choose to treat people thanks just a couple of quick comments um we've talked about this before with council but you know a culture will develop whether you like

it or not so the question is you know do you want to kind of dive in there and kind of shape that direction and i i have just been amazed by the staff's response to this and you know kudos to noel and her staff are trying to organize some of this there's been a couple of speakers targeted partners and the amount of staff that sit in and listen to that and actually engage is really surprised me i thought that perhaps this might be something that i have to kind of lead a little harder but i really

don't it's been quite costly um pretty exciting the other thing i just would share with freshman food provided well no actually no not on the cobot one other just quick story uh i had an employee who was retiring who wanted to meet with me and just tell me the impact that we have made in his life in his time that he was here in the last few years around this issue now it not only just financially for him just respecting the work that he did but just coming to work and the interaction with his e

mployees said just made a huge difference and i have never heard that from an employee in my career and that made a real impression on me and so he just told me that in my opinion we are on the right track here we got work to do but it's making a difference thank you thank you was that employee all excited is that about same time frame that reed came in um luckily he had no interaction with the city of government but what's next okay i'm going to walk us through our proposed goal eights of good

governance as you may remember this goal is to be responsive approachable welcoming fair and accountable internally and externally to facilitate ongoing conversation that captures all considerations involved in ensuring interests are addressed and reflected in city policies and initiatives so our first objective here is safety we do have a vision element we've identified as the narrative for this objective focusing on change amid this reality we envisioned a littleton in 2040 that has made itsel

f even safer and more accessible in all the ways people navigate within littleton our key action step for this is our firearms ordinance which was adopted back in february and becomes effective in august so right now uh police staff is meeting with some of those retailers and we'll come back on july 27th and have a little more conversation around this but our measure for success is 100 participation within the first six months are there any questions on this objective before we move on so object

ive two is financial challenge awareness this policy language comes from the comprehensive plan emt ones to maintain awareness of the financial challenges the city faces and meeting the high increasingly costly public service expectations our action steps here are the resident business surveys and the community research engagement project we've heard a lot about both of these recently 2022 will be our sixth iteration of the resident business surveys we started these in 2012. and then we'll our m

easures will be completion of these with a statistically valid process i might note that resident business survey will also serve as measures for a lot of the other items on your council work plan so this is a pretty key element for us any questions on this objective what percentage do we typically look for those surveys getting completed or responded to a good number just approximately uh 3 000 of them are sent out i believe uh the last go around we had around maybe 800 that were returned and w

hich month is it again 17 which what which month is it really which month is it sent out uh generally we send it out in january and i think the time that we did it last the deadline was valentine's day to return those and then they do the data collection and analysis and then you would have gotten a report in april of last year but that's when covet hit so you didn't get your report until i think august it was delayed so it'll be january next year okay our third objective is community desires th

is comes from comprehensive plan policy snd four this is facility around facilitating further dialogue so our two action steps here are redistricting and an election code update so as you know redistricting requires census data which we're still waiting on coming out there's been a little bit delay and then we'll have to wait for the federal redistricting and the state kind of down that process before we redistrict this will probably happen in 2022 we're anticipating before the election in 2022

and then our election code update something we're working with a consultant on right now to best align with to align with best practices in the state so if there's anything that we in that consultant work identify as urgent for this year before this election we'll bring it forward the roommate will be brought forward in 2022 we have a little more capacity there measures of success include small district margins so that redistricting containing the small margins without any gerrymandering i'm an

alignment with best practices for that election code update any questions here excellent so our last objective for this is high performing organization we did tie this to a comprehensive plan policy you've heard a lot about this tonight so i'm assuming you don't have any additional questions i just wanted to touch base on some anticipated resource needs here so staff will be working to maximize our current resources we will likely have some budget requests during the 2022 process specifically th

e resident business survey which we request budget for every other year the community engagement research project may have additional requests depending on council direction and then the organizational development initiative will also likely have some one-time funding requests as count as staff continues to work on these items like their election code and redistricting we'll come back to council's reformal processes should there be anything we can't cover with current staffing and resources our

next steps here for safety for that firearms ordinance we'll be seeing you on july 27th for the financial challenge awareness we'll be doing very likely some more polling a telephone town hall and we'll have a council follow-up in july as well and then the community desires we're doing preparation as you as we mentioned both of those initiatives are mostly coming in 2022 and then high performing organization will continue internally forever forever it takes forever to build that culture next ste

ps for goal setting in general so we've got downtown coming back july 13 and august 24th housing livability is coming up in just two short weeks on june 8th an environmental stewardship on september 14th and then i'm happy to mention that we are still working on that public facing dashboard we're hoping to bring a visual of that coming on june 8th and so that we can post things there as council has gone through the detail that was our presentation thanks mayor what's up man i got a question this

is going to be as fast as her presentation that was good that was good yeah it was good yeah yeah thank you both um my question is under which council goal are we talking about economic analysis applied to new development city-wide basis good question have an answer so i'm working at our dashboard uh we've actually tied that into our financial sustainability goal two at this point in time what's the latest on that kathleen i think we have a demonstration coming up at one of our briefings yes an

d so we staffs received the model from our consultant do you need to come to the you probably need to come up here sorry just to make sure that you can be heard and seen so staff's received the the model from the consultant so we've been spending a lot of time getting familiar with it so that we can bring that back as an opportunity to share with council so i'll work with mark and sama to figure out when that that date is and we'll update you well so you're looking for a direction are we going t

he right way are we on something something you want different yeah says house counsel filled this feel great looks great awesome thank you thank you a lot of work it is totally a different step for the city to be doing all this stuff too it's so great to see so again i complimented you last week for bringing the right staff yeah it helps doesn't it it really does good job where does the um short roll in the capital fund falls out under financial yes right anything else nothing there yeah we do h

ave one other topic now just the reopening plan that's right we have our last item for regular item here is let's see we've got id number we have id number 21-100 it's a city hall remodeling and reopening plan so we're going to get a briefing on city hall remodeling and reopening and again we have no action this is just for information only i think actually either agree with you or not your plan is going to be still correct yeah there's a couple of interesting topics here that come to light here

just based on recent action by cdc and our governor so i just have a couple of slides in the beginning i'm going to touch on here and i'm going to turn over to keith and others so here's kind of the status of the health orders we'll touch on that briefly city hall construction and capital improvement keith is going to be talking about that the reopening schedule that's connected to all this i do want to talk a little bit about the process for boards and commissions and the lessons learned from

the pandemic both noel and keith are going to be sharing a little bit on that so the status of the health orders as we all know we are in level clear so we have no capacity limits within arapahoe county mass are no longer being required but encouraged and i'm sure that all of us have been in the businesses here of late just the last couple of days and seen changes and i think the private public sector is starting to respond to that return uh to on-site staffing by city at city facilities we're g

oing to talk specifically about city hall here in a minute as it relates to the remodel and then all the other city facilities are open without restrictions i do want to also note here that myself staff and reid are looking at the original emergency declaration that the council ratified here back in march of last year and actually put us into this whole response to covet we're going to be actually coming back to council at some point and rescind all of it or most of it here so that we kind of mo

ve away from this emergency declaration so i just want to get the comment okay next slide please with that i'm going to turn it over to keith all right thanks everybody so we haven't um regrouped with y'all to kind of uh talk to you about the construction and the remodel and our goals there other than to you know have you in this room um a few of you had some tours all the head tours with me and part of our staff and alan brown our fleet facilities managers back there as well a lot of you had co

nversations with him along the way so our goal in this is to talk to you about what's been done where we are against that what does it look like financially also very clearly you're going to see some slides that say what's not being done because that's pretty important factor and then how that relates to the reopening question for here at city hall so in this particular slide so originally in 2020 pre-covet we had a 1.6 million dollars in impact fees that we are going to use to address capacity

issues in this building um they can they're restricted to capacity issues as they are impact fees so that was our original game plan in in the spring of um 2020 we went through a process of selecting a design firm and a contractor for those projects and then boom here comes code at the same time so that's when uh the cares act money became available and that's when we took on the project that we're all sitting in here today and um to be honest you know we wouldn't have touched this room until pr

obably phase five six or seven down the road um just because of the money so what happened i have to say that our our team our staff on saunders construction and inner group did an outstanding job in our ability to pivot if you think that you know on june 1st we didn't have a single sketch for this room you know and we were completed by the end of the year that's pretty extraordinary stuff so then moving along that timeline obviously june of 2020 we've gone through this and if you want to come v

isit me now as of yesterday afternoon you have to come to geneva lodge because that move is taking place we'll talk about that in a minute and then um really related to other construction in this building and that september timeline is kind of important related to the the remodel and the reopening question as well does the public also go to the launch sure we don't have like not a lot of space in there so yeah i mean the only folks that are down there are our engineering we'll leave the jokes fo

r the city attorney and chief so i know i know it's big so it's good but well we got to get the speakeasy open in the basement over there then we'll get a lot more people coming to visit so um kind of a recap of uh what happened during in with the covet dollars um we allocated 1.4 million for this project and then we supplemented that with um peg funds specifically for the audio visual from our franchise agreement and then some additional facilities capital dollars as well what that panned out t

o is 1.7 for this project the plaza canopy area that you saw out there the canopy the electrification the furniture and so forth out there to kind of start the reactivation of the plaza temperature scanners for all of our facilities across the city i hate to go to the one at the bellevue campus because it's built for tall people and i have to stand on my toes to scan my forehead over there so and then we also did some work in the police writing room to provide them more space which was needed an

yway but also as a result of covid that we needed to build that in um so those are the numbers there so where do we go from there how many temperature sensors do we buy chief can i make a correction that 103 000 was actually for the needlepoint bipolar ionization as well as the temperature scanners we did put temperature scanners in all of the primary facilities a couple of them in this facility but more importantly we put needlepoint bipolar ionization in the hvac systems in all of our primary

facilities and that is uh active pathogen mitigation in the in the atmosphere buildings and that's that hundred and three thousand so that's the bulk of the cost then yes so moving on from there in this building and now once we've passed that slide this is where we're in the impact fees so everything from here on is in that 1.6 million dollars plus fm capital so um right outside of this room you have the ada restroom work that took place out here you know a lot of people say oh go to redo your r

estrooms and make them compliant that's 336 000 to get that work done and then the additional space up above with the new the new floor and the drywall was the west infill that's up there where the creative services group and communications is up there now as well so those two projects were done simultaneous to this one while the contractor was mobilized while that was going on over at building one on the bellevue campus um just as a reminder most of the buildings on that campus were built betwe

en 1948 and 1952 and they show it building one where we have um most the administration there um upstairs in order to even replace the carpet we had to do asbestos mitigation and likewise we have the same thing in the north wing which we have not undertaken yet it's been there since the 70s oh yeah absolutely and there's carpet tile over you know it's amazing and there's carpet tile over the asbestos tile a lot of cases so as soon as you pull that up you get a friable state and then you gotta so

i have to give credit to our employees over there because they kind of worked in this flip-flop um you know zone of rest you know getting them out of the remediation area and all that during that time so all we did over there was do the asbestos mitigation in that one south wing upstairs and did some paint and some carpet and that was that was forty five thousand we still haven't touched the north wing that's just upstairs in the north and related to that campus we'll touch that later and so as

part of that we had the digital scanning project that we were we have ongoing and those folks were in the north wing so what we decided to do in this process was the basement of the courthouse was basically unused you know as you know as a giant junk storage location i'm not saying the clerk's office stuff in there is junk location but you know so what we did is we did some paint we did some light we did some carpet and reactivated that space that completely unused space in the courthouse and m

oved the digital scanning team over there and there's also some additional space in there so this is a space that was unused we made a little investment in and ironically well not ironically but the employees that moved over there really really like it which is kind of interesting plus it's added a little dynamic to the court staff some different folks in that building which they like as well um over there so from there um the geneva lodge relocation to free up space in this building um the the

at least with fisher architects ended in december um we actually took the lease payments over from the tenants that were in there starting in about october and we once they were vacated in february we started the process of moving into that building that's 116 000 but as you can see the vast majority of that was running fiber to the building and adding security and data and technology into that building now that we're in there love to have you come over and check it out we've got folks in there

we've got the engineering staff we're working on our traffic operations center upstairs which would be the first time we've had traffic together with some video capacity um to be able to look out there in the real world in real time so that's a that's a big step for us and um so clown over and check it out the other good part about that is um i was over kelly a little while ago we bought all the furniture fixtures and equipment from from fisher associates for six thousand dollars i think which w

e couldn't outfit two offices for that um so we really didn't have an ffe um number over there with the exception actually of my office because there's no furniture in there and the upstairs ones but we took stuff from here and moved it over there to accommodate that addition to that that are currently underway um we need to we're going to make some ada adjustments to the parking lot out there to get to get some more ada accessibility in the side of the area in the plaza and then also we already

have the electric vehicle charging stations here um and they're going to be going into the parking lot out here as well plus we also already have two chevy bolts that are getting lights put on them um not police lights you know play lights for us to um to bring into our fleet as we replace a couple of vehicles we brought a couple electric vehicles into the into the mix as well most chargers just for city they will be public um you know it will eventually have to go through the discussion of whe

ther you want to charge for them but most initially that most cities don't and you know they just kind of go with it so we're going to install them they'll be available for public use as well out there so some of the things that at this point related to geneva for example and the campus here that are left on the table undone the exterior of geneva lodge we're going to be pursuing historic preservation grants for that we can't really do anything without permission in the historic preservation boa

rd so we've got to work through that process we still need to do some additional hardscapes here that go beyond the concrete that's out there today add some additional pathways one of the things we're really working on in the ground side is how do we how do we reactivate geneva park how do we make this more of a destination and as we get that bike and pedestrian connection underneath through slaughterhouse gulch from the community trail over to here that's going to be part of that reactivation p

rocess we have not done any ada upgrades to geneva lodge yet we hope to in the future and then what i what we've said by the littleton center hallway upgrades is that when you walk down the hallway look up and there's those wood panels that are there and if you want to see where we're going right out here in this hallway is the direction we're headed but that's an expensive proposition to do all of that sealing in there and frankly taking them up and taking them down as a safety issue for employ

ees is very difficult very challenging they've been there for 50 years at this point so that's something that's left on the table as well um so the other part of phase two as you all walk through in the hallway the permit counter has already been questioned nothing kind of like me he's watching he's modeling my behavior we actually are doing nothing in the police services area um other we just actually would just strike their parking like that we did do that but um the realistically speaking whe

n we were we've been doing space planning at delta because they have a pretty big component of stuff over at the bellevue campus the answer to our our public safety needs are solved when south metro fire moves out of station 11. so that's really when you're gonna spend some dollars over there right you know we we really need to look at how do we relocate dispatch how do we get them to the level we need to how do we get them the extra evidence space that they need all of that all of that stuff an

d really it's frankly that space is there and when um when south metro fire moves out that's the answer to that question i planted the seed with south metro fire about a week ago so that's our mother-in-law suite here at this this campus so um so related to um this the next phase is the permit counter moved we had to do lighting and sealing and those kind of things but all the furniture there was a straight move we didn't add any additional furniture to that project so the next stage of all this

comes to so what's going in where public works is vacating and community development which includes planning uh building and code has never been in one location together say again no that's the building it's just right out of this hallway oh okay right here and so um originally we had a concept we we went through the design work to design some remodel of that area not a you know full-blown remodel but some to accommodate space um if you've ever been in there there's some odd-sized offices and s

ome other issues um that below the grid in other words below the ceiling grid that cost would be six hundred and twenty two thousand dollars above the ceiling grid is five hundred and seventy six 000 because all the hvac and the mechanical and electrical have been touched in 40 years so that's that's the situation so no matter where we touch in this building there's all these mechanical systems that are you know severely most of them are 20 years past their lifespan at this juncture um so that's

the crux of the ends where we're at right now so in order for us to get community development into that space and also accommodate the relocation of human resources in the city clerk we're basically doing almost no remodel there and we are not touching the mechanical systems because we don't have enough money to do that in order to do that we're probably three quarters of a million dollars short at this point in time so um we're still working through the details of that but our goal is to get c

ommunity development moved here over the next couple of months um where it says city clerk and human resources um they're going to be locating into the area that's being vacated by building a code over here and when i wrote this slide it was still in design as of today at noon it was not still in design um and we got the um the number takeoffs and that area is going to be about 280 000 to do but we're going to be able to put hr in the clerk's office on the first floor and basically all the walk-

in traffic will be restricted to the first floor primarily speaking for the uses we tend to get in this building on the employee commons which is the break room we we want to do something there eventually but obviously we don't have funds to do that but we are adding in a wellness lactation room to this building we've never had one before so we feel that's an important ad and we're going to carve off part of the employee commons room to do that upstairs it's required by 88 right so uh the recept

ion area is in design because out here in the hallway we're gonna we're gonna readjust the reception desk and a few other things to to have a better greeting one of the things we are going to be doing in our work with it is we're going to be adding video control to all the entrances so in other words right now we're still in that lockdown state where we could have a central controller that would allow people to handle the the act the people coming in and out of the building we can badge people a

nd do that um some members of our staff would like to keep that permanently closed and use that as the access point and others not so much so we have to work through that but we are going to install those which gives us the option to do that in the future and also provides us a situation where if we had a major problem in this building we can do a lockdown a full lockdown which is something we do not have today so we're also going to add some security doors back in the community development area

and actually upstairs an additional set of security doors towards the city manager's city attorney suite really that's about containment of read more than anything is really the primary goal of those extra doors um our time every once while we have that group comes in and they challenge us on everything letting them have access to wherever does this prevent some of that well the way the way we're moving in the building is that so hr city clerk the permit counter and police records are the prima

ry access that people come to this building for you know we get a little bit of walk-in traffic for finance around utility bill time but that's really it and so we've we've been able to restrict that to this level of the building and we're going to have security beyond that um so that you have to be let in beyond that shorter concept thank you i'll get to that so um so we're so to before we move on from that um the design is going to be completed here in the next couple of weeks and then our goa

l is to have that community development work done by about september 1st and that's when we're recommending that that's when we would fully reopen the building because all that construction is right here and if we reopen the building before then a we're going to have people coming and going through the construction active construction zone but it also reduces our ability to do the city clerk and hr area simultaneously to the community development area with the contractor so we can we can reduce

the total schedule time by 35 to 40 percent by doing those simultaneously so that's one of the things that we're recommending um these are some of the other things that are you know basically left on the table um with that are away that are beyond the budget just for this building um we we mentioned the hvac and the mep the lighting and the ceiling grids and like for example when we go into community development we're not touching any of the ceiling grids we're not updating the lights we're not

doing any of that stuff that's part of it um hallway lighting and ceiling we've talked about we're when we do hr and clerk we're going to do an experiment on expanding the portholes is what i really refer to as the windows in this building so we're going to try and experiment with a structural engineer to see if we can how that works out for us we think we have a concept that will help but we have that you know really we're not doing any office remodeling updates not upgrading furniture for anyb

ody so we're still using old furniture that really wasn't built with ergonomics in mind in a lot of cases we haven't touched the building nor building one north wing for the remediation and within my operations group basically i'm going to lose 115 years of management in about a 12-month period all my operations supervisors and we're going to realign those groups in that building to better facilitate operations going forward but we're we just don't have the money to really take that on and here

at the littleton center um the area that hr is vacating it's going to be expanding into so we don't have people like sitting in a confined space server room as their office for example and and also for those of you haven't ever spent an entire meeting sitting up there with tyler you don't quite realize what it's like in there right now you put a rubber suit on go up there lose a little weight so we've got to eventually take that on and we may move that up in that area over there a lot of people

think that's even with the second story and it's not it's actually like one and a half stories is where that room is up there it's really in an odd location so we really have to take that on eventually over time as well um so related to what pam just asked about um we we had a sketch drawn of some options that would move the front entrance from basically where it is over today to basically come through where the community room is now which would allow us to create even even more security have a

better entrance and we would be able to allow security through here to make this room accessible to the public as well which is one of the facets that we we're still working on and we think is important so this is what that would look like just one of the concepts you know you can see the floor plan how that reception work over there on the left and at the same time that also provides us an opportunity to take that area where um the permit counter used to be and do some infill space there add so

me additional conference room space as well as on a second story you know there's that big glass wall that kind of looks out from what's now hr and it would be able to remove that wall and stretch that space out all the way to the walkway going forward so that's all part of the future concept this is easily seven figures we have not priced this out yet so um but that's easily seven figures um so this is just kind of a recap of some of the stuff that hasn't been done um in this this you know we d

esperately also want to overhaul dispatch um to give them actually a second exit or entrance which they don't have right now as well as you know accommodate the things that they need to to be successful in their jobs every day um these are some of the other ones that we've talked about as well um our our tenants in station 11 are a little bit high maintenance i'll just say that as well so they're more than happy to ask for stuff over there um so we also wanted to put this in so later this year w

e're gonna the city like all of our other areas didn't have facilities master plan and that really encompasses all of our square footage where are we going to go over the next 15 or 20 years and that kind of thing so we just finished a space planning project with a engineering and architecture firm to look at the long-term needs of public works and all the other users that are on the bellevue campus which police have a pretty good size presence over there so this is one of the concepts i left th

e existing building two and three in there so you could see it this concept would accommodate that has a lot of daylighting in it there's several other concepts of this based on the square footage we just picked this one to show you i would like to point out that our history on this campus is building five is in the lower right corner that's the fleet shop the reason that that building is new is because the old one fell in during a snowstorm so our our previous model was run it till it truly col

lapses and then replace the building so we're going to try and avoid that path going forward but none of that stuff so later in this year we're going to be bringing you a bigger plan that looks at the city and then the questions are you know like the library when do we start thinking about space planning and community engagement for that the museum is at 20 years mechanical systems that's the time we need to start looking at those things not leave them for like 40 or 50 years like in this buildi

ng so we're gonna we're working towards that our staff's working on that uh pretty diligently right now just to give you a sense that building two and three replacements definitely around 10 million probably plus it says necessary site improvements uh all the storm water from this site currently drains to the west and into the railroad on control so that would really need to be accommodated when we took this site on as well so um this is the reopening schedule obviously we've talked about starti

ng next week that the public would be be coming into these meetings as well we think that you know we can accommodate that we're going to make some security measures out here to keep people contained as they come in we have temperature scanners out there and that kind of thing for everybody um other business in this building want to repay remain on the appointment only model right now until we get through construction which we're targeting for the end of august september 1st if everything goes w

ell um and then some of the other things that we're doing uh in hr is this is related to what she's going to talk about with teleworking here in a minute we are not building enough space for everyone in hr we are using the hr spaces the new high as a hybrid model where they'll be working maybe three two two so maybe three three three remote two in two off or some combination that they're gonna work through but that's gonna be our first hybrid space and we're we're gonna they're on board with tha

t um and we're gonna we're gonna roll with this thing and see how it goes and and go from there and it also frankly helps us get everything in the building at this point in time so we're excited about that i know they are um so that it'll also be a positive change for us there um reports um we'll continue with their hybrid schedule as they have today and basically at this point in time all the other city buildings are already open for full access um you know our buildings have been the whole tim

e museum and library back to their schedules so really ours is driven by the construction in this building for the time being the one thing we still need to talk about though really is how you want to handle boards and commissions re-engaging in this meeting i have one question on the back slide so when the public comes in next week there'll be a temporary diet or temporary podium is that right for them to put their material on there uh yeah we're going to continue with what we have we're we've

been working through the process of picking out what the podium is going to be for speakers and that's been a little bit more challenging than you might think um so we're we don't have that here yet but there'll be something for them to be able and i think as we were talking the other day there won't be overhead projectors for them right but we'll be able to accommodate that we've talked through that with with the communications team so if someone has a document we can figure that out will they

be hybrid can they call in because the question or no longer no um in fact i'm gonna in the next slide here i'm gonna touch on that with boards and uh commissions here but the intent starting june 1st in this room is that it'll be 100 in person and if i'm making a it's a good lead into this next piece here because it'll connect here so right now the staff has reached out to the board chairs of all the other boards and commissions and just trying to have a conversation about what it is they're co

mfortable with in coming back quite honestly some of the boards are already meeting the person some are not um but so much has changed in just one week you know we're trying to bring people along and just try to understand what concerns do they have the other thing that we need to kind of contrast this against is just our staffing so as we look to in-person virtual hybrid you know what is it going to actually take not only for facilities but we have one tyler and so i think we're trying to figur

e out how to balance that so all of this we're going to bring back to council i picked the date of july 20th to bring all this information so the council can have another conversation around your legislative rules so for example does council want to have the option to have some kind of a hybrid meeting for a council member to accommodate some specific condition and i think the context is really important because what you decide for as a council in those rules applies to all the other boards and

commissions so we're trying to bring all this information together about the level of comfort the staffing that's necessary the resource and then let you guys decide how do you want to kind of balance going forward here but in the short term between june 1st and that july date it will be at least in this room 100 in person so the other part of that too and to add to that is you know since we're moving everything into this room like mark mentioned we we're still figuring out the facility sets to

accommodate those as well as the communication sets and then for example you know we have the transportation board well in essence we don't broadcast that or but we have been broadcasting it over the internet through zoom for the last year so how is that all going to play out that'll be the question for for council to to vet at some point is how does all that fit together going forward um so that's kind of the this challenge that we have as we go forward so uh mayor i think alan brown had a comm

ent you may have to step forward here alan so i just wanted to uh address the mayor's question about the lectern uh that has been chosen thanks to kelly and our design team purchase orders being cut and i just got word today that the new one will be here on the 29th of june it's coming up the south platte river and barge some of the construction materials for this job felt like that so and it's basically there's going gonna be a platform where folks can put their material on but not not an overh

ead type situation i this is the only place i've used an overhead for a long time so i'm just saying thank you how do they show us their materials they will have to make they'll be communication so that if they do have documentation they'll have to make um effort yeah they'll have to accommodate that and give us advance notice and we'll help them communicate that via some pdf or something a little learning curve yeah yeah i mean i i'm not aware frankly of any other council chamber that has a pro

jector in it for quite a long time so you know i do remember the days when you had to roll it across and you write on it so don't remember those overhead projector days um so with that um slides that noelle wants to just going to talk a little bit about that you know some of the lessons we've learned up to this point yeah you know covet changing the environment of the workforce and expectations of employees and expectations of employers so we want to touch on this a little bit we've learned some

lessons i think that our significant investment in our technology really helps with this you know we switched over to microsoft just at the right time because when we needed it for connectedness we had it there's a bit of a learning curve but we overcame it and we are finding ways you know i spoke a little bit about having connectedness you know these virtual coffee shops that we did and different things like that but also teamwork the technology continues to grow we've all seen new iterations

of that to break out rooms now that we can do also in teams and and things such as that we've seen gains and efficiencies uh some reduced costs and of course innovations as a result of kobit and our technology investment customer service communications and productivity haven't suffered in fact our employee survey we've done two surveys a baseline and then a follow-up show that these areas have remained consistent or have increased overall and we only had eight employees in the second survey that

said they had something that could not be solved by working remotely where they had to come into the city building to get a problem solved so you think about all the issues across all of our employees eight of them had had a problem that they needed to actually come in for which was helpful our surveys also say that being together physically is really important to our culture um whether people really love work working remotely or they prefer to be in the office being together everyone agrees we

need time together for our culture um and for our growth as in employees all of those good things and finding the right cadence of that is going to be important right hr testing this is going to be a test for us what's our cadence of bringing us all in together versus teams environment how do we continue connectedness how would that would affect compensation because part of compensation is you know people showing up in an office you know for their time essentially to get here regardless where t

hey live but compensation does is a part of that so if folks don't have to come into the building how will that adjust their compensation i don't see that it would we don't base our compensation on commute times or you know for me taking the toll every day back and forth to work that's a choice that i made when i said littleton was the spot for me so we're really paying employees for while they're at work and the work i think a bigger concern that we're all facing is our remote employees will pr

obably say that they worked more from home than they've ever worked before and the balance of the other way so is the organization getting a greater benefit for that same salary when people are connected all the time even on weekends evenings so that would be a i think a challenge in itself yeah and i would just chime one of the things that i heard is you know individuals being able to actually start working earlier and some of the challenges that hr deals with is you know when you're working in

an office that gets a little easier to take you know that hour lunch break whereas if you're sitting at home you pretty much have nothing else to do so you tend to i think what hr's found is other than laundry and dishes or maybe a quick area yeah there's did they talk about those too i mean yeah i can i can say that i'll just you know speak for my staff um because our engineering staff's working wrong i can say without question and i've also been a remote employee before this um here the amoun

t of my employees definitely work more than they were when they didn't have the option and but there's also a downside to that they don't take breaks they feel like they're always on so you end up with this burnout factor at the same time that's you know we're not the first company in the world to deal with remote workers and so those are the balance and you know i i definitely know that you know my team is working more hours as a result of that remote component so it's part of it's balancing th

at too though but not everybody is disciplined enough to work at home and to be efficient i mean so it's it's a matter of judging the work output right that's what managers are for that's i'm sorry i spoke for noel there is the two questions can we do it and should we do it for certain positions or people uh teleworking policy we kind of have at the bottom that we have a draft and leadership team is taking a look at that really closely and writing a policy that does say just because we offer it

you still have expectations you must meet in order to opt in to that and that will be really important a tool for a manager to be able to say hey you're off you know you're off the path a bit let's have you come in stop remote working for a period of time until we can get you back into performing at an acceptable level which will then cause friction with an employee you know because now they feel this they're being disciplined and have to show up in the office so they're getting downer there's a

lot to learn there's lots of libraries and definitely yeah you're managed by outcomes when you're teleworking and some people will work late at night in order to come in and get a kid to school or something as long as their manager approves it depending on the position absolutely it can be effective yeah certainly i would say that flsa supports that the federal law if you're exempt meaning you're salaried and you don't get paid over time there is flexibility into that law so the manager's job i

s to say you're too flexible you're not arrived when we need you so how do you manage that it will take engagement from our supervisors that we will support them with because it will be brand new for them in those ways are you at your desk right exactly so the ability to offer some type of teleworking is important to remain as a tier one employee we see a national and within our own survey group that it's expected we have 75 percent of our employees who want and expect some portion of their week

to have that flexibility and 90 percent of our supervisors do support that after what they've seen over the past year what they've experienced the pillars of any policy is of course operations and customer service those two have to be met fully as we engage in alternate or hybrid methods if those areas suffer then we immediately need to look at it and determining those what positions are best suited here versus the ability to flex and work remotely and then like i said we're working on a strong

teleworking policy we've gone through one draft with the leadership team they're in the process right now providing comments back to hr and i think that there will be more to come right mark as we have updates on that yeah we've talked at length internally about this and as jerry and others have commented on this there is a lot to this issue and we're not the only one i've had a lot of conversation with my peers so a lot of cities are kind of wrestling with exactly the same thing is they recogn

ize that teleworking is going to be important it's going to be important to retain to attract but at the same time it's the outcomes you know we're truly looking for ways to kind of measure our success and so that is the conversation we're having how do we know that we're kind of hitting the customer service target you know production all of that so we're trying to figure that out and we'll bring that you know some updates periodically to council we'll likely have to fine-tune this teleworking p

olicy over time but i think the whole nation this whole world is kind of wrapped up in this thing at the moment here so we're we're just trying to figure it out as well i would like to see that we did create a teleworking policy that just is pretty basic uh that got us through covid you know with expectations a lot of things that we built into it we'll keep that in place and tell the new one knowing that some of us will have to continue because of construction remote working i will say i was ant

icipating to have some investigations or supervisory issues around like my employees never working you know or i can't find them when i need them what are they really doing and we did not have any supervisory issues over the past year of that nature whether the supervisor was able to immediately handle them so they didn't rise to the hr level but certainly none where they needed help and support or i.t support to be looking into when are they logging on we didn't have any of those issues so um o

ur workforce has been very conscientious of the remote working to date how was our legal department conscientious wise that's in the journal right you know getting those contracts signed you know maybe uh just one kind of little piece of commentary here when we look at the remodel here and maybe it's now more apparent for council but you know we we are going to be able to do a lot with the funds that we do have but there's a lot we can't do and i think it's a reflection of this building itself a

nd if you step back in time one of the original reasons as i understand it that the city bought geneva the geneva property here to the west of us was to somehow take this building and mirror it and flop it right over and build another wing in essence well as we know that's not going to happen and so we're in my opinion we're kind of forced to make the modifications to this building for the long run building a new city hall is extremely expensive and can be controversial as well depending on wher

e you want to put it so i think we're committed to the site and i have to congratulate keith and the rest of the team that's been working on this issue to try to maximize the opportunity we got in this building it's rough i also think that it's another one of those things we've got to communicate to our community you know we are struggling in our buildings i think this presentation i hope when people would recognize is we can't do all things things that we should be should have done decades ago

and we can't because we can't afford it not just this building the bellevue campus the library we got 30 somewhat buildings that we just struggled deeply with trying to make any kind of modification so i think as we consider the capital project fund any kind of revenue relief issue here our facilities has got to be part of the equation and that needs to be kept in mind too and we have programs that say cost hundreds of thousands of dollars two three four hundred thousand dollars or a possible ne

w expense that we have now and yet the city buildings are always the ones that are deferred yeah that's exactly so you know so we've really got to make some tough cuts at some point and take care of city buildings take care of the properties and the streets that's really what we're here for and the museum in the library of course agreed i think that's it that's it i don't know why this pops into my head it doesn't seem all that related but um what um what's the status of ransomware defenses i kn

ow ashley's not here tonight and we're talking about physical facilities but i don't know is there any input take that off the camera yeah i think uh i think ashley would say you know we've we've stuck our finger in the dyke as i like to say here in the short term she is very concerned in the long run and so rit systems a lot of our find just our financial systems in total as we're just much like our buildings we are way behind and so i think um they are tied up in the capital president as well

we have too much in there so i t is struggles deeply with this issue and she bent my ear last week on this topic so i'm confident in the whole budget process she's going to come back maybe the arpa funds have an opportunity to solve this in the short term but in the long run we got an issue here and we're not alone with that issue yet no we're not ransomware is definitely a hot topic all right anywhere else cool so before we wrap up we are going to have training so don't leave right away um but

we can open if we're through this subject yes let's let the city attorney go first tonight because he's always no [Laughter] i need to save some time for the city manager there you go um i have no reports here all right all right it is uh 9 30. uh we are adjourned but we are going to get a quick lesson [Music] you