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oh also like just a small reminder to like write bigger so ARA can see okay I will do what I can a thank you that's so sweet yeah it's a good point and of course you know use the bathroom get water get food um okay here we go it starts with like the intro to the podcast people don't think of philanthropy as a political and economic system enough and that's exactly what it is this is Michelle Shireen muray your host and fellow traveler on the ethical rain maker a podcast exploring topics that des

erve a deeper examination in nonprofits and philanthropy including the places we can step into our power or step out of the way if you're new to this podcast or these topics you might feel defensive which is understandable you might wonder why we present these critiques when so many people are benefiting from the good work happening in nonprofits and rely on the third sector for care for critical services and even for money but if we don't examine how these systems and these Dynamics came to be

we can never hope to reimagine them improve them or do better to benefit the communities we're trying to serve one of the concepts I rarely hear defined is this notion and I've said it many times myself that the foundation that philanthropy and nonprofits were built on is faulty or problematic or racist well today we're doing a deeper dive into the why we'll specifically explore the the relatively recent history of how these systems came to be specifically in the United States and the fact that

they're built on deep injustices for our listeners in other parts of the world don't worry many of your histories are mirrored by this one so the story is similar Christina Shimizu is co-founder of community Centric fundraising director of individual giving at Seattle's Wing luk Museum of the Asian-American experience and she currently organizes with decriminalized Seattle and the Chinatown International District she's the co-founder of activist class a political podcast set in Seattle Washingto

n Christina is an experienced trainer on the intersections of class and race and uses her analysis to examine and dismantle the ways philanthropic engagement perpetuates white supremacy and other systems of power welcome Chrissy to the ethical rain maker yay thank you for having me word so one of the reasons I wanted to invite you on is that I realized that in all of the episodes that I've done so far and also in a lot of conversations that I have with folks we're often referring to the problema

tic nature of how philanthropy was built or how nonprofits were built but I actually rarely hear anyone Define exactly what that Journey was and why it's problematic and in our Workshop that we did together just last week the way that you laid it out you are a genius you turn wonky policy into consumable information that can be understood by a broader audience and utilized and so there are many reasons why I love you and this is not even among the most major but it is a pretty incredible talent

that you have and so yeah of course you're welcome and I wanted to a big compliment yeah well you're incredible and coming off of our work together last week I thought it'd be fun to talk or useful to talk about problematic philanthropy I love that and I love the I love the opportunity to nerd out with you have a conversation about something super Niche dude you're you're the coolest nerd I know okay so are you you are you're a closet nerd I am a closet nerd and I love how you talk about everyth

ing to do with the political economy of philanthropy and I can just see like the lines that you draw between all of these dots on a timeline and just how things became so donor centered right oh man I'm getting tired I can feel it I wonder if you talk I wonder if You' talk to us a little bit about the history of philanthropy and why when we're having conversations about philanthropy or nonprofits and how problematic their history and their Foundation is what that even means there's always a stor

y you've never heard before and when you think about like your who's in your family you might know your parents story you might not honestly you might know your grandparents story had the privilege to have met your grandparents or the the privilege to have met or known your great-grandparents but do you know your family story earlier than that do you are you connected to any history that's earlier than that and when we think about philanthropy and when we think about um nonprofits and the system

of providing resources to our community right now do we really think about how that came to be and how that was formed in the United States over time and do we think about it as a political and economic system and do we think about it as a cultural system a culturally informed system and how are we critical of which culture is represented in that which cultures are represented in that and which cultures are not what forms of care what forms of philanthropy you know are recognized as Elite and f

orms of support that are are worthy of awards and honors versus forms of support that are um undervalued or invisible labor you know like care work that mothers do that women do that communities of color do that is oftentimes invisibilized never awarded never properly resourced so true and so when I talk about the political economy of philanthropy what I'm really talking about is this practice that of philanthropy that is formalized right now that kind of Works hand inand with the nonprofit indu

strial complex or the structure of how our nonprofits operate um institutionally with philanthropy and with different private and public forms of funding to create the structure of what we call the nonprofit industrial complex and what that is rooted in what forms of colonial power that turned into different economic policy that turned into different tax code that turned into like this um whole system this whole structure that we experience today you know and really understanding the root of it

and how it evolved I think gives us a clearer understanding of what it is that we what what it is that's working um what it is that isn't working and how we can have some agency and some power in moving forward so that it can work better for our communities thank you talk to us about what that beginning was here in the United States the First Foundation was established in 1907 by Margaret Olivia SL sage and she was the second wife of railroad baron Russell sage and she inherited $70 million and

she was able to form a foundation with it and at the time I like to reference actually like the we Luke Museum again because the current building that we're in right now was built by 130 migrant laborers Chinese American laborers who worked on those railroads but at that time frame there was the Chinese Exclusion Act that made it illegal for asian-americans to own land and so while marret you know owned multiple homes multiple mansions and was able to amass this $70 million or more you know from

the exploitation of Labor and the ability to acquire land our immigrant pocc community whose labor was exploited for that money to be amassed also were systematically excluded from being able to build wealth in other ways yeah a lot of people I think don't realize that there weren't like philanthropy in the United States is like relatively new like the way that we have formalized our systems of Community Care in this country are like just a little bit over a hundred years old as a system so lik

e even now when we think about like the movement in defense of black lives and how activists are calling to defund the police to reinvest in community and reinvest in systems of community care that will actually address the needs in the community like additional Mental Health Specialists increases in housing opportunities like having people show up that have like drug user Health knowledge and support like those systems have been a are like you know structurally starved from the public sector as

opposed to to like the punitive systems the criminal punishment systems the policing systems but like also like the the way that they're developed between in this nonprofit industrial complex and then through other sources of funding like through either the public sector or the private sector in philanthropy all so new prior to the Civil War um we only had mutual Aid networks where like people would help out their neighbors they would help out neighbors who they culturally thought and this was

in white culture right this is colonial white culture in the United States there were women and children who were deemed as those who were deserving of help and support right so like already we're seeing kind of the early formation of our systems of care adopt this culture of paternalism and saviorism adopt the culture of the patriarchy like we must help protect you know these poor defenseless people who are are women and children and we are their protectors we are their saviors right and so the

n in 1907 um the country is it's growing and it's expanding in in its development of infrastructure Russell Sage a railroad baron dies and leaves his first wife or sorry whoa his second wife $70 million you know and like a and and land and multiple properties and with that she is able to hoard that in the first Foundation that's established in this country and that is sort of you know the beginning of the nonprofit industrial complex the the date that is often cited however as like the creation

of the nonprofit industrial complex is actually 1913 when a Revenue Act is passed that creates this like 501c3 tax exempt status for nonprofits and then with that also implements an income tax mandate on high incomes but although wealthy people in this country are now beginning to be taxed on their wealth they also have this Outlet this Avenue to like still control through foundations how and where their money will be spent so they still get to protect all of the decision-making power and Social

Power that comes with having wealth and also not have it taxed so I'm hearing you say at the beginning already pre- Civil War there were mutual Aid networks that were serving who was deemed deserving so certain groups of women and children of certain classes and races were deemed deserving there were mutual Aid networks for them this is where we're starting to see you said the formation of this type of Aid you also alluded to to kind of a starvation of the system we didn't have social services

that we needed and the 501c3 nonprofit status was created in 1913 with the Revenue Act of 1913 so 501c3 status was created in 1913 with that Revenue Act we already are seeing people put their money away in these big tax shelters and what happens next so um quickly like taking a step back to to like talk through that Mutual Aid work where like communities just set up networks of care between neighbors and from knowing their neighbors and from knowing what the individual needs of their communities

were this was also the precursor to labor unions so there were also workers who set up Mutual Aid networks who would you know provide networks of care among co-workers and families and this was essentially like a socialist ideology right or another way of looking at the formation of the nonprofit industrial complex is that it kind of co-opted and sanitized the values of organized labor and of of like these socialist values too of like making sure that that laborers who were being exploited coul

d get the care that they deserved and the the care that they needed and then move it through this paternal system of nonprofits and Foundations where wealthy people were then given tax incentives and tax breaks to care for the poor the poor and the poverty that they themselves created right what I was just about to say what makes that relationship paternalistic the very fact that they're exploiting labor to begin with creating poverty to begin with and then given the power to determine the needs

transcripts like something that we can read oh wait oh yeah yeah yeah I was having this exact same compensation on my professor last semester yeah think because like I found it really interesting that like there's like kind of like this um there there's this idea that like there's a limited amount of what people can be given especially comes to scholarships and stuff I was like if they paid us like what we need to actually survive do you think kids have to compete her scholarships like they'll

like why like what is the point of scholarships when when they're literally creating the system in place that makes it that we need scholarship so that you know we can look like we have merits we like we're worthy and kids are fighting espe with the what is it the perative action thing like it was so crazy like they're just creating these systems in place that makes that we're fighting each other we're like you know fig out who's meritable who's deserving and all these things but and who's getti

ng to decide that exactly like who decides who is meritable and not under like yeah under what terms um and they are the same ones who are creating that wealth inequality in the first place and not paying a proportionate share of taxes that could actually make college free in the first place for everyone um that's not where their attention is yeah and all these kids that like sport scholarship and all these things have me in certain GPA and that's so stressful especially I don't know it's just i

t's just it's insane I don't I don't like that what we have in Professor was that or like what class did y'all meet through um's my studies Professor cool um he's pretty cool he's right huh your what AF like black studies and stuff I heard from yeah like he's like a writer and he's also a poet so like I don't know it's like very involved in kind of like the conversations around like he things and just like I saying like none of this makes sense yeah yeah yeah I had like a class with a semester w

here we had to like do a huge project and it was a big part of our grade and if and like gives a group project too like a group vyl um but we had members who like didn't do the work and it could have lowered our GPA and like a lot of us are on like scholarships that like are reliant on our GPA so it's also interesting how like these systems like the grading in place has this huge impact on our ability to like stay at the college even like with everything um also do I to sign in for the trans grp

oh really oh I have a ref account so it doesn't make me do that got it um are you able to copy and paste right [Music] yeah sorry that's okay thank you for asking yeah like weird hearing auditory processing it's like a thing I don't know what's wrong with me yeah thanks for yeah thanks for sharing that know I didn't think of that it's plain text but it here yeah I'm sending it okay also I'm just always like first like the thing like credit like having a credit score that is literally less not e

ven 40 years old it's actually insane credit support so upset that things like that just like exist yeah oh my God oh my God my friends and I talk about I mean I feel like there's memes about that too but it's like what do you mean like we're on an earth with like butterflies and rainbows and then we create credits like what what does that even mean I'm just like this floating Rock and like for each other that's so C so miserable life is fleeting why do we have to know about taxes like it's so a

wful we should make our own memes about like the content we covered yeah wait that's a great idea I love that that's so cute because literally WR I don't know if you can see it but they're like writing it down and they're noing like me to make memes love it wow yeah it's dire out here this is me every time I learn a new information something bad I see [Music] coordination shall we keep listening okay yeah and the resources that these poor communities that they create have access to and getting t

o determine what that car looks like right and so what happens next um in 19177 individual tax deductions that benefit the wealthy are past and then in 1921 so in less than a decade there are Grant making tax deductions that are passed as well that benefit wealth accumulation in private foundations so now private foundations are able to or any Grant making institution is able to gain access to tax deductions just for holding wealth and being a grant making institution and so this was really befo

re there were any regulations in place for dispersement so if you were you know holding on to like $70 million at that time and only granting out $55,000 and your money was still able to like access interest or investments in the market it would grow it would sit there and it would grow but you were not in any way accountable to dispersing or paying out that money back into the community those re I want to pause really quick to make sure we understand that so what she was just saying is if you h

ave $70 million in a charitable organization one you're not getting taxed on any of that wealth at $70 million sitting in a bank sitting in a thing called a foundation and you're now getting tax deductions as in the the money you have outside of the foundation maybe you're a railroad baron and you're making money off of the railroad you now can deduct if you make a grant out spending 5 thou giving away $5,000 of your 70 million in the foundation that 5,000 that you just like handed out like penn

ies like comparatively that 5,000 you then can deduct from the taxes that you're supposed to be paying on your profits so like if you make three five more million that year because of your railroad business your taxes would be what maybe like some 100,000 or whatever and then you give away 5,000 from the 70 million you can deduct that from what you should be paying that 100,000 or whatever you should be paying in taxes for the new income does that make sense yeah so that's like people always say

ing that like Charities like billionair who give out the Charities are not actually charitable so they just want to preserve their money preserve their money because that whatever you give away then you don't have to pay in the form of taxes from your other from your other source of income so like there's like a private company like a railroad baron or something examp nonprofit under that or like they're connected separate it's separate but it's it's the it's still that Baron's money uhuh so lik

e he endows let's say yeah yeah let's I don't know we can use um McKenzie um oh my God Scott yeah yeah like what is his Jeff B's ex-wife for example like back when like she divorced him it was like this huge thing she was going to give like like one billion of her Fortune away to like parodies and stuff right she's getting taxed and like every every money that she invested in like be like Banks or anywhere in the world like she's getting tax on like all of her business ventures because she has b

usinesses yeah and she said she's giving away a billion to Charities and you know foundations that billion she's giving away she's she she'll probably like getting like taxed on those other you know businesses that she's a part of right for example like she's getting tax everything that she owns so like if she's do with a billion dollars she's not actually losing any money because she's getting it back because she doesn't actually have to pay any of the taxes that she owes the government so like

you know they say she's like super carable and everything like it's not actually true because she's doing it for her own benefit because she doesn't have to pay for taxes because technically she gave a billion dollars away for example over a period of time and how she donates that or like yeah regardless like the foundation whatever she sets up to be spending out this this this money is separate from her business ventures because the business is a for-profit entity a for-profit entity that thus

is not tax exempt so the for-profit you have to pay taxes on the different elements of that business but then you create a nonprofit which is a a separate tax category which you're you don't pay taxes on anything basically when you're a nonprofit including like when you buy things for the nonprofit like um yeah and then and then whatever you like spend inside of that nonprofit then can be deducted from what you should owe the government for your for-profit and it's all you it is is all you but

because you're able to separate like the money of you into different legally recognized like things like what what even is it um but because the government like legally sees you as these different accounts it becomes a way for you to yeah wield wield it towards preservation of your wealth the same could be said for like Taylor Swift right and like other celebrities yes for example like all of them and that's why like the money isn't actually circular it's not going anywhere because technically t

he money that they should be paying towards taxes should be going back to the public to that's like funds you know like interest services and Roads and because they're they're they're actually taking that money back then it's not going out to the public as it should be you know and so like it's actually really detrimental to like the rest of us like poor and just like scholarships just like scholarships like it's so much more of a better look for like Beyonce to have a scholarship you know progr

am than Beyonce to pay the actual taxes she owes that could contribute like with Taylor Swift and all of these other billionaires like their taxes could all pay for all college everywhere but instead they're preserving their wealth and choosing who um gets gets the free education or the or the subsidized education I guess my follow question is how does it change for like an individual versus and like a company or and like organized nonprofit like okay so like um I guess if like a feel like ter f

or example has I well I guess her music is her company and like that okay so it' be like there art would be they the company that yeah okay never mind I get yeah okay cuz like I like I feel like once you get to be that size of celebrity you have to incorporate in some sort of way or or individual anymore yeah like it's like like Beyonce has Parkwood Parkwood entertainment is how like beyon runs her her I don't know her brand her business yeah um and so I think in a parallel way it's like it's li

ke that and they also like have like copyright like their gam certain things to are all all right how are you following I'm following sorry I my have my mute button on because everyone in my apartment decided to be like super loud today but yeah I think it's really interesting how this like is this is all really relevant and like I didn't realize that anything they expended on for a nonprofit is like you can get a tax deduction for that's crazy I mean it makes like so much sense like I knew it w

as a big deduction but that's that's so crazy like I just I mean I understand why it's a thing but it's just like how the is that like leg crazy which is like really interesting because when few people are talking like tax to Rich blah blah blah nobody actually really goes into details about like what that actually would look like they're like they earned that money and then you have to like go into this whole thing think peace of like actually they did not earn that money and then like you have

to like this whole education has to go into place for people to really understand what tax really means and what that looks like too because people are like but they're giving no the money you're like no no no there is actually what's happening and people are always like so confused about like the layers like what is actually happening behind like those doors and even if you tax the rich if you increase what you're taxing the rich if you're not also reforming the system this third sect system t

hey will just spend more in charity so that they can keep getting back the higher tax rate that they're getting um this so crazy like does the government recognize the for-profit and nonprofit as one thing or are they two completely they're completely separate there's no they're not connected under the under the ey under the eyes of the State under the IRS those are that has nothing to do with each other the the Beyonce Foundation has nothing to do with Parkwood entertainment completely separate

so when like the nonprofit sectors okay so for like afip for example they have two programs they have a like a a company and they have like the nonprofit and then and they like started fundraising for their nonprofit last year how does that play into well so on the on the Grassroots on the more Grassroots size of scale of nonprofits nonprofits that are like not like foundations right so like like this is like a 501c3 organization like ACI like afyp when when we're doing fundraises from the publ

ic we still on the small scale get use the same kind of thing that the billionaires use in terms of being like it's a tax deductible donation so whatever money an individual like say you donated $20 to ACI this year you get to write off $20 you get to claim a deduction of $20 when you file your taxes to the IRS that year um you have to get like a tax exempt like letter there's like a there's what's something called like a oh I'm not forgetting a donor acknowledgement letter so you know whatever

money an individual spends to a tax exempt tax deductible charitable organization like afyp that fundraiser they can they can claim that back on their taxes and still yeah kind of get that benefit so it does still but like it's like again it's like only the people who have disposable income of a certain size will be able to really benefit from that system um and yeah and it still is like a way that that even the smaller Grassroots have to be complicit in like abiding by the way that tax exempt w

orks because you want to you like to raise a donor base like to do your critical programs you have to be appealing to people's sense of this is a good investment for you because it does XYZ good and you get to write it off on your taxes that's so it becomes kind of like a profit um kind of like incentive for people yeah because they get to like it's it's a it's like a I don't know what is the word like a positive feedback loop or something where it's like you feel like you're doing good which li

ke in a way you are and you are getting nothing but benefit from it whatever money you lose you're recouping through what you don't then pay the government oh because I got like scholarships for like attending college and now that I think about it like those people giving me the money like that there was a reason why they were donating so much also endowing scholarships yeah don't we have to like pay tax on the scholarships that we get I know that no way I heard that from oh my roommate was talk

ing to someone about that and apparently I know should send you a was an iris for actually I think it's like a 10 something 1058 I don't know oh yeah they like if sounds right if you're filing taxes this year this is what you need to be used that could be reported to the government like that's true you you do have to report as income a scholarship I got in school was I had to report that to the IR but I can't remember if it was actually taxed on it or if it was like figured into my total income

of that year like yeah yeah I'm form 1058 kind of sounds right8 yeah I think so it's a 10 something it is one of the 10 something okay let's keep in fors wouldn't come into play until 40 years later in then 1960s we're defining the problematic Foundation of philanthropy on nonprofits with Christina Shimizu right now on the ethical rain maker what gaps exist in your knowledge hit us up at hello at the ethical Rainmaker docomo we'd love to hear from you do you enjoy the topics we're bringing you t

he best way to support this pod is by subscribing sharing with colleagues and contributing to our new patreon learn Lear more at the ethical RM maker.com [Music] so when we're talking about wealth hoarding this is actually what we're referring to right as a wealthy person at that time and even now you can put your money into one of these tools basically I think that this is the part that like gets me really excited because people don't think of philanth eny as a political and economic system eno

ugh yes and that's exactly what it is the Donor advised fund the foundation like any type of like planned giving all of the different ways that as fundraisers we like Market the benefit of giving as a tax deduction right is actually like problematic in the sense that we're starving the public sector you know we're we're like creating this idea that like taxes are bad you know when in fact like taxes if we thought about like how we could like democratically work to determine the best and highest

needs of our community our system can pay for and take care of itself like we can take care of our people for me like our sector needs to dream way bigger than where We're Dreaming right now because systemic poverty cannot be solved by a nonprofit that deals with harm reduction that deals with trying to care for the immediate needs and the survival needs of people when if we're not actually like focused in on what our communities need in order to thrive and so one of my favorite mentors told me

when I first started this work that like it is critical that like anyone in nonprofits or in philanthropy or foundations need to be working themselves out of a job like if we're not working ourselves out of a job then like what what is it that we're doing and and what is it that we're doing this for if we can't Envision a world that is truly Beyond poverty and depression where our work is unneeded that's really useful and so I'm seeing the connection between what you were first talking about aro

und actually this piece where the needs the community had needs that weren't being taken care of and some members of the community were being taken care of because they were deemed worthy of that deserving of that and others weren't philanthropy starts existing in a in an official like tax code capacity nonprofits start existing to provide the services that aren't being provided to folks who need assistance and charity becomes a tool a system where philanthropy has philanthropists have a lot of

power in deciding how a community gets served and what community gets served with the money that they're willing to donate to a nonprofit money that they have been hoarding and in giving away are sharing with the community and yet they also have major tax benefits that make it absolutely a benefit to them personally to be able to do that work yes exactly and another key component of this is that the wealth accumulation of these philanthropists happened through extractive economies right like the

y were able to extract and exploit labor in order to accumulate wealth they were able to extract and exploit land in order to accumulate wealth they stole Land from the first people of this country the indigenous people of this country and committed genocide they stole people from Africa and exploited slave labor they exploited immigrant labor from China and in order to build railroads and so the first foundations and and much of and any type of wealth accumulation just by the very nature of the

capitalist economy but especially during this period of us colonization is tied to deep exploitation and direct exploitation of human beings this neoliberal neocolonial system of Finance is a way that we can like kind of detach ourselves from thinking about how we still are very colonized and are able to colonize and exploit land and labor through financial systems but that still happens today we're talking with Christina Shimizu a co-founder of community Centric fundraising a seattle-based pol

itical activist philanthropy wonk and fundraiser right now on the ethical rain maker learn more about Christina in the show notes at the ethical Rainmaker we just went through the like the very first steps of that history a beautiful analogy of what that looks like when we're working in the nonprofit sector but do we unclog the sink turn off the faucet or mop and we're choosing many of us are choosing to mop um which is kind of like the pointlessness of of some of the work that we're doing when

we're not changing the system you tied in socialism and labor unions to the beginning of the history and do you tight in what happens now is still happening do you feel like there's anything missing in that I will say that like if we want to make change in our sector and in our lives then it's critical that we start developing that we start seeking out a political education that gives us an analysis of not only like the history and political economy omy of philanthropy but of our specific sector

like the work that we do and that it represents like if we can't talk about like how it was born what it was born from then like you know what we're too zoomed in then on where we are now what exciting things might we find you know if we start doing some of that research and start building that in to how we think about the way that we do our work totally true I really think that our country I think that we have like an existential crisis we need to get real with ourselves and we haven't figured

it out yet when it comes to like who still is deserving of care how much do we value care versus how much we value this idea of rugged individualism and like being able to access wealth and Prestige versus just like caring for our community and caring for our Collective need and I think that what it really boils down to is that question and it's just as easy as that and it's yeah for me been interesting to look and see it like how this has played out over time in postwar eras there is this Gene

ral sense that was still very racist period of course in American history there's this just general sense that like we had to take care of each other you know it was important to have economic policy and domestic social policies that invested in American people invested in jobs invested in healthcare invested in education invested in the idea of the American dream which was that like people could you know have homes and like afford food on the table blah blah blah blah blah and clearly you know

that again was not accessible to everyone in our community there like the GI bill made it so that like only white families were able to access funds to buy their first home redlining and exclusionary housing practices were still in place so again more white families were able to pass on generational wealth um while like essentially ghettos were created in the United States where people of color were you know not allowed to have access to the resources that they needed to thrive and then we see i

n the 60s a deep analysis lynon B Johnson is the president and he wants to fight you know the war on poverty in America but that's mostly because wealth inequality has kind of like risen to this extent where now like there are really really poor whites and so like oh there's really really poor whites we need to like all of a sudden fight a war on poverty at home but at the same time we were fighting a war in Vietnam and so this too like called the question around like racial tensions this was yo

u know on the cusp of the Civil Rights era and this was on the cusp of a women's movement and so all of these things were happening socially in the United States and that led us to a period of reforms in philanthropy where finally like because people had a a stronger Collective analysis of wealth inequality and racialized wealth inequality and a distrust of accumulated wealth and a distrust of of how that money would be spent and a desire for more accountability the tax reform Act of 1969 is pas

sed that imposes the 6% payout Rule and then there's the Revenue Act of 1963 that distinguishes between public and private foundations because there's this distrust right of like private foundations and a desire to understand more oversight and this period too is known as this period of modern liberalism where like generally there's strong political support for economic regulation of the economy there is opposition of tax cuts we want more money funneling into our public sphere in order to suppo

rt the expansion of public programs and so with that you know is the expansion of the role of government right if like we have government playing a greater role and like providing Health Care providing education and providing these social services that we need you know housing to all survive and at the same time there's an expansion of civil liberties but like this all gets reversed and this is really important to note and this could be an entirely separate podcast but like this all starts to re

verse itself to decades later in the 1980s really one decade later I mean it's like really like the 70s and 80 80s neoliberalism is incubated in think tanks in the United States and then rapidly expanded through policy throughout the 80s and what is neoliberalism neoliberalism is a political and economic philosophy that's basically like the exact opposite of like New Deal and like liberalism it's basically deregulation privatization and cutting taxes but long format it's like not wanting any reg

ulation on the economy got it that would be like Environmental Protections as an example the privatization of things that are offered in the public sphere so like things like education and healthare are no longer or or even Banks right like public Banks like State Banks that all of these should be operating in the competitive free market and not operated by government so the role of government shrinks and then also cutting taxes so creating more incentive for business to reinvest in itself givin

g money back to businesses to reinvest in themselves and not toward government um and that the idea many will say behind that is that like it'll create jobs but really what we're seeing is like you know this uneven distribution of wealth this uneven wealth accumulation and like the creation of like many billionaires many of whom live in our state Washington State because we not have an income tax wow that's awesome I want it distilled for me in a way that you do it you know like where you you en

joyed exploring it and then I get to reap the rewards of your hard labor um and research and get to hear about it a way that makes sense to me so that I can use it for all the things that I or we all need to use this information for and it's so it's so important but also not all of us are policy wonk nerds so really glad that you were here to give that background Christina Shimizu is an activist a fundraiser and co-founder of community Centric fundraising learn more about her work in the show no

tes at the ethical Rainmaker tocom or find her on LinkedIn Chrissy thank you so much for taking this time and joining us today to explain these Concepts yeah thank you for having me as a guest that's it for the ethical rain maker I'm Michelle Shireen muy thank you so much for being with us on this journey deeper into the okay I take a 10-minute Break um be back at 2:12 um and we'll go into yeah I think probably further conversation maybe Mark out some stuff that we want to look up together um ye

ah okay yeah yeah oh stop one [Music] minut hey har hey guys okay maybe let's lightly start getting back to it um so so yeah are there any like I wrote down some things that seemed significant to me in terms of idea terms topics um was there anything for y'all that you wrote either notes or like noted for yourselves that um want to make sure is up here oh and I can read it let me read this out loud AR so you know what I wrote down so I asked what forms of support are recognized by nonprofits um

the idea of a political economy of philanthropy that philanthropy is a political and economic system um that this idea that formalized systems of Community Care I.E the nonprofit are relatively new and like financially they're they're starved compared to uh carceral systems or systems of punishment um that are also formalized so two different formalized systems to respond to what could be considered like problems or issues two very different ways of going about it and on the care side we see a l

ot less in public investment versus the amount of public investment in the punishment side um another topic uh was this was this idea of donor advice funds and planned giving um kind of that conversation we were having about like how we raise funds as a nonprofit um and what it means to like be trying to recruit donors um and then this idea of taxes are bad um instead of uh the Democratic budgeting for the masses needs so actually creating a process where we decide together how taxes are spent a

nd creating enough taxes to actually cover what is determined to be in need um a lot of the logic of nonprofit um specifically in the law side creates the sort of rationale of taxes are bad you're always trying to deduct your taxes you're always trying to get a tax break um you don't want to pay taxes because that's the money you earn um and then uh this idea that nonprofits do harm reduction so a lot of times nonprofits aren't organizing around you know like working working themselves out of a

job what they're focused on is that people in the meanwhile like people are suffering the masses are suffering and there needs to be Services um and resources provided to them so it can be considered that nonprofits work is more in harm reduction instead of the like addressing the root causes of harm um and you know that's a generalization there are likely nonprofits who are working towards um root causes or at least some political education to get the masses thinking about root causes um and th

en there's this idea we've been talking the problematic idea of like who is worthy who has Merit um and that overall philanthropy is founded on extraction um people can only build wealth by have have built wealth in the capitalist system off the backs of others um in many different forms over time uh from genocide and enslavement um that um Wars wars conducted in other countries have been very profitable for the United States um and I'd say I'd add like she talked briefly about like what happens

in postwar eras and he mentioned this GI bill and the GI Bill essentially uh subsidized white soldiers white veterans coming back from world War II to buy a home it basically paid for them to have a home in a suburb um and this was incredibly hard to access for black veterans or other veterans who were not white um it was not really a program available to them and that was how the suburbs were quite literally built um it in many ways feels like an echo of the Daws act or the what what what was

the do act also called the do act is kind of is basically what took um tons of indigenous land and sold like a certain acreage of it to Homestead Act the Dos act the Homestead Act it was for homesteaders in the 1800s who are moving out west and Manifest Destiny in that fit the same sort of logic was happening after World Wars a little after World War I but I say mostly after World War II is when we see the suburbs boom and we see then President Eisenhower who was a general um as in how invest in

infrastructures like the the highway system because uh why like why would you invest in a highway system to um segregate communities right well the makes it easier to transport goods and make more money and profit yeah it was F fueled by this rapale of oh if if War ever happens in here we need a way for tanks we need a way for ground uh uh for for the for the ground armies to reach other parts of America quickly it was fueled by the uh I'd say one of the more like the effects of the highway sys

tem was segregation because you were already subsidizing white flight so white people leaving in Mass from the C from the cities to then be in these in their you know own little homes and everything and they need a way to get to their jobs which are in the cities they need a way to get to each other and so you fund these highways that then historically most many highways plow through historically black or historically Asian communities to enter the city it's exactly what happened to Chinatown he

re i93 enters Chinatown um splitting it in half from where from the original full size of Chinatown Chinatown used to stretch across from where you see the highway uh enter uh the city um and demolishing things like the Boston Public Library um the the Chinatown Community has not had a public library in Boston since the 19 1970s when the highway was built into the neighborhood um so we see that um the highways were a strategic were used strategically by cities to achieve certain agendas that the

Mayors or local politicians had around who deserves to live in a good place and not um knowing that highways would produce incredible amount of pollution um another reason to fund highways is because cars uh the car industry in America was booming at the time from Detroit um to other epicenters in America the the American car manufacturing needed a place to needed needed uh supp like public support in order to grow and that was by creating an America that is that is car centered which is is als

o about depriving urban communities of mass transit so it's it's it's all tied in uh with one another um these these different ways and that's why we have that's why we have to break the myth of like that that non that the third sector is between the market and the state when it's the state and the market that create the conditions for uh nonprofits to arise take the shapee and it does um I feel like I'm rambling um are there other like key terms ideas topics questions you guys want to draw out

or discuss together I guess in connection to the caral systems what it is about the caral system versus the nonprofit sory like that makes people in not nonprofit but like um the Land Group I guess or Community Care that makes it more interested to invest it and more like why people invest in caral systems more than like helping someone be well I feel like for me it's just like in caral system just like another way for people to make more money for like cheap labor uh and it's also like I don't

know how it is how it works but like essentially it's like it's it's really really good for like people to invest in it because it makes them creates more money for them in the long term they probably like I I don't know if they're getting I don't know how the government like this but I'm assuming that they're getting you know like tax deductibles as well on top of just like you know making more profit and that's why like a lot of like people are like banking on like for example I think it was l

ike in Texas for like this um this guy he works for like this prison he's director of the prison or something who's advocating for like non-offensive prisoners to stay in prison longer because it's good you know for the economy of the prisons system because they have more labor because then like you know these um these prisoners can like go and like be bought out for like cheap labor and take care of things throughout the city and all the things they also like do factory work in the prison and t

hen even though those people have those experience is in the prison when they go out into the world they can't use those skills because it doesn't really count technically as like a job because they were prisoners it's like really interesting how that works too and many formally incarcerated people have to identify that they are formally incarcerated and I think it's one of the only like protected forms of discrimination of like like because you have to be you have to disclose that like that is

allowed to be taken into account in your hiring process so there's a lot of bias against it and to folks know how like police and prisons were formed in America slavery yeah because when slaves were Escape they needed a way kind of like to account for them how they're going to you know patch them and bring them back so then the first costs were literally created to C enslave people when they're fleeing they PL and that's how like the first and then that's how dogs were also used to sniff them ou

t to like C them and figure it out and that's how these start like that dogs and Cops start working together or against your will really I mean dogs can be used for that you know the purposes and then they just like C them and bring them back on explantations and what's interesting too is like the cops that were used originally were also um white people from like who were like um low income too because instead of like them working together like because like there's like this whole like Uprising

that happened like way back in the 1700s and like the wealth were like we can't have the low income white people and the ensl working together so we need to separate them so what they did was they had the white people be in charge of the black people so that way they think they have power and they can you know like you know work their way out of this oppression and really know they should be working together to kind of like overthrow the wealthy people and so from there that kind of like lineage

like you know built upon itself and then eventually what happened was the wealthy white people gave the low-income white people like a way to kind of like protect themselves and have a sense of like you know security where like they can like feel like they're in charge of something and essentially to protect a wealthy they good in their economy and yeah pretty much that's what longed no that's that yeah that's spot on and that originally prisons were an intervention to corporal punishment so th

e Quakers who were like based here in New England they devised prisons as a way of well can there be another way for someone to repent for a crime that is not losing their life or losing a part of their body corpal punishment you know being that kind of like eye for an eye type logic um and it was so it was first introduced as this intervention there but then what happens is alongside all of the Shady politics of the Emancipation Proclamation and and the very slow um uh Freedom supposed freedom

of inflated people is that um what then happens is you have um these these masses of of black folks in America who the white people are anxious about exist coexisting with them because they the white people knew what they had done and done to to to black people for hundreds of years and so um with that came the introduction of laws because the 13th Amendment that that ended slavery made the exception of except as punishment for a crime so involuntary servitude involuntary labor unpaid labor and

cheap labor was permitted essentially slavery was still permitted if punishment for a crime so what do you have to do you have to write what a crime is things like loitering things and what is loitering it's really silly I literally I still can't wrap my head around this day it's existing in public it's exting in public it's existing in private land it's not having somewhere to go which if you were just released from enslavement and did not own any property no money to your name what would you d

o but loiter and so laws are made for loitering so that the people the slave patrols who could no longer slave Patrol could become cops to arrest and criminalize the PE Criminal I black free people um simply for existing and then get them to continue the economic extraction via the prison system and so that's why the caral system got to be as big as it got um because it was all white Rea white dominant cultures reactionary stance to black people being free and wanting to ensure the continued lik

e safety of their race um amidst that and as uh car mentioned uh private prisons are a huge industry because it you have massive government contracts if you can run a prison and there are so many ways to do that in ways that cut prices and other things and and and get you know you I think you don't you aren't property taxed on it or something there are different ways that like it just is a good investment MoneyWise profit-wise to run a prison or at least to own a prison and lease it to the gover

nment um okay yeah are there any other big things to draw out I think I'm a little interested in um how how does like how do we seen in like International nonprofits and like like the UN for example like I don't know I'm just interested kind of for more I feel like I feel like the way I see the UN isn't actually like a nonprofit act actually doing any good it's just like a way for like Nations that already have like a lot of power continue like ensuring that they're on Power and haven't seen lik

e how other nations were like not as stabilized it's like a higher goal type I feel like system that is like in place but I I want to know more about how like this side of it affects their ability to continue and and like MoneyWise yeah yeah yeah I don't know the economic system of the UN and when it comes to International nonprofits [Music] um I think it's actually a quote in here that that we'll cover yeah maybe we'll go into that because some of the first International nonprofits were the non

profits formed here so like the Ford Foundation the Rockefeller Foundation these other foundations are were responsible for like the way that have y yall have heard of Carnegie melon University so in the same way that Foundation money was used to endow and create entire academic institutions here in the United States the University of the Philippines system home in the Philippines that entire system is based off off of the university University of California system where there's U up Dilan there

's many different campuses under the up system because that was entirely architected by people who were part of the University of California systems and people who were in these different private family foundations like Rockefeller who were going and being part of colonial efforts abroad to rebuild or build up third world countries like the Philippines that that they were colonizing that they were imperializing at the time the public education system in the US was sorry in the Philippines was cr

eated by an American designed by Americans from Chicago um and so the formal language of instruction for all subjects in the Philippines is English we learn math English we we learn math science history all in English and Filipino a nationalized language of one of our 170 languages is taught as a second language within our public school so foundations become a way for again for the state to have this Shadow this Shadow State this alleged third sector that's working in the background but in tande

m to government interests not just domestically but abroad I'm just like really curious to see like in I don't know like for me it's like really upsetting when you hear about all how all of these things are entangled because when you hear people are studying dead languages or even languages it's always like white people that are going yeah I'm going to learn you know this language from like this really ethnic minority and they have the luxury to like you know get to all of the history and stuff

me all the people that are like you know from those actual like countries can't even like go and actually learn the history of it either because of a resources and time and also because you have the wealth for luxury to be able to do so and it's all because you know they're colonized and now like they're getting that language like stri from them for example and banned often banned like taken by law right again out of fear from the colonizers that the native people will use their native languages

to resist Ari anything major for you that from the podcast or any of the conversation since yeah I think this podcast was just a really great way of tying like so many different little nuances together like little details and I really appreciated that and I found so many similarities with um my own research I'm doing in the Puerto Rican diaspora and the way that like policing systems have been formed and I'm just kind of making like a lot of connections between a lot of the colonialization and

you know that's going on in Puerto Rico and the stealing of land and you know like these tax breaks and everything that like you know all the crypto Bros are like talking about and encouraging people to like move in like this is just kind of like painting the full picture for me so it's really it's really like dystopian but also like really interesting so let's go into some here to kind of uh expand like our internal understandings of like the timeline and stuff um Okay can someone read this so

this is from Carnegie Andrew Carnegie who is a steel tycoon um this is from his very famous essay published in 1889 I want to say called The Gospel of wealth and it put forward um this the ideas of philanthropy it really that it architected for fellow wealthy people what well how wealthy should be um Can someone volunteer to read Ari are you seeing the screen still yes I can see the screen I can read if no one volunteered okay yeah go for it I have dyslexia and I lost my glasses so I'm sorry in

advance uh it's going to be a little bit of a ride the price which society pays for the law of competition like the price it pays for cheap Comforts and luxuy is also great but the advantages of this law are also greater still for it is to this law that we owe our wonderful material development which brings improved conditions in its train but whether the law be benign or not we must say of it as we say of the change in the conditions of men to which we have referred it is here we cannot evade i

t no substitutes for it have been found and while the law May sometimes hard for the individual it is best for the race because it ensures the survival of the fittest in every Department we accept and welcome therefore as conditions to which we must accommodate ourselves great inequality of environment the concentration of Business Industrial and Commercial in the hands of a few and the law of a competition between these as being not only beneficial but essential for the future progress of the r

ace having accepted these it follows that there must be great scope for the exercise of special ability in the merchant and in the manufacturer who has to conduct Affairs upon a great scale that made me feel icky [Music] reading yeah so like what are some of the red flags we see in this we hear in this wow they said race a lot yeah and he meant exactly what race you all think he meant yeah it's the white race special ability in the merchant and the manufacturer and like their role is like this l

ike all powerful person that does things for the people he's like yeah we're deferring things but we're making money it's okay yeah he's like this is just the way it is yeah all right oh no I was just going to say that he's like laying out this fake system and like gassing his guys up and being like this is how it has to be it it's just so wild like seeing how these things have like come to fruition he says it ensures the survival of the fittest in every department where does survival of the fit

test come from that that phrase Eugenics Eugenics Darwinism Darwinism which is eugenics um which proposes this idea that like the white race is scientifically the reason it is because it survived the best it is the most fit because look at where they are and tries and create an entire pseudo science behind uh supporting that theory of evolution we need to read some Cornell West here he wrote something oh my God that that document is like wild but the way that why people came to define the fittes

t like as being the superior race was like so interesting it's actually terrifying yeah like they're measuring skulls and all these things like looking at people's features determining what was beautiful and what wasn't meanwhile they don't even know how to like you like wipe themselves after using the bathroom no I think about that every they they got away with doing what they did because they're dirty like when you're D not because they're actually like really good at what they did but because

they're dirty and they giving us diseases that that was literally our downfall they gas them off on that fact and actually terrifying yeah so like imagine in 1889 the like richest guy in the world has written this essay and is gathering up his groups of friends of the other richest people in the world being like everyone listen to my gospel of well and preaching it like reading this aloud sending copies to as many people as he can who have the access to the power to make this a reality and the

fact that like he's like kind of like has the authority to kind of like think about this and talk about this people actually believe them rather than question why it is that he's writing what he does but because like we're too kind of like ured in the impression and just like envious of like the power that he has we're not even questioning we're going to think it as truth and we're going to like try to like knock what he's saying emulate it yeah and that's why when people are just like oh yeah I

'm just going to be the next J B be the next this it's just like no bro like we're closer to Poverty than you think you are yeah also this idea of like you know it's it is what it is like this is the system um I feel like is met with so many different like systems and topic and like I see it in my own family where they're like oh you know like um I guess like you know talking about palestin they're like well you know this is what it is now like how are we going to get get out of this and I'm lik

e yeah like I don't know like how you know so it's just really interesting to see it like that rhetoric appear so prominently and I guess yeah which makes a lot of sense in all yeah it's whoever's in power needs to propagandize the idea of it is what it is so that their power cannot be questioned right [Music] um uh another quote from that oh sorry AR go for it oh I'm so sorry no um I was just gonna say it just like propagates this idea that like or keeps like incubating this idea like that's gi

ven to white people that's like um like I will protect the position of power because someday like that might be me I think like and it just yeah just it but yeah like you were just saying like it's just crazy to see like the start of this all and like it's Echo just so much yeah and how like how that kind of confidence that it gives white people and how that fear is then installed into people's color like I know my parents don't actually believe that but they say it because like they they lived

in post1 World they lived in like you know the this like dehumanization of Arabs throughout their entire life in the US so like of course they're going to like you know adhere to the propaganda so yeah it's just really scary to see that um yeah I think for me too what I'm like really interested in like observing it's like kind of like um what is it the kill of the flower Moon movie it's like Yay movie was made to kind of build the atrocities but what are the ancestors of the white people actuall

y committed these disra during today for example one of them has a really great show on I think like the school network and she's like really happy talking about her homesteading life and how she's really happy as a home wife and she is so wealthy because she has so much land because her family told it from the People The Descendant from like the the Native Americans M like do we just leave that as conversations how do we move Beyond like movies like that to kind of like actually show the enviro

nment environmental impact for example like what those families are doing today and just like let's see let's see did they earn that wealth because it was actually Equitable or did they steal it and now they just get to like live their best Liv and be happy I want to say that in 2010 it was reported that of homeowners over the age of 21 in [Music] America 60 to 80% were direct descendants of the homestead act so it shows you that the people who own a home today can't own it because they killed f

or it they literally killed for it the people who did the Homestead Act were like something like 200,000 white American there's like the discrepan do when they try to tell you you have to work for your money you have to do XYZ like um what about those people they never work what do you want to do like kill more people France ban coming soon well let's talk about it um but okay let's read this other quote um anybody want to Vol here yeah under it way we shall have an ideal State when the Surplus

wealth of the few will become in the best sense the property of the many because administrator because administered for the common good and this wealth passing through the hand of the few can be made a much more potent Force to the elevation of our race than if it have been distributed in small STS for the people themselves that's scary the common good what does that mean what do yeah what is the common good what did you say AR I just said what an evil Aura like the common good like everything h

as about [Music] that and what is the logic in if it a a more potent Force than if it had been distributed in small thms to the people themselves what does that tell you about what he thinks of the people that we it's kind of like the patristic thing they were talking about with nonprofit or like they like the people themselves meaning people who are not white and wealthy and like you know class the class system basically and the racial system it's like they can't manage money they can't they ha

ve they don't have the imagination to actually do good with the money so therefore we have to be in charge of it and and determine how to pass it on and how to use it for the com good yeah [Music] see so this is basically him already saying that like thus the pro so thus is the problem of rich and poor to be solved the laws of accumulation will be left free the laws of distribution free individualism will continue but the millionaire will be but a trustee for the poor entrusted for a season with

a great part of the increased wealth of the community but administering it for the community far better than it could or would have done for itself saying that it's like crucial for the few because they are the top of the race like the he what he's saying too is is embedded in the idea that like those who who have made this Fortune are also the smartest and you and that that is a self-proving pro like prophecy because like how else would they have gotten that money if they're not exactly who sh

ould be having the money um so just really some really intense stuff there um this is a little bit of history about yeah tax Privileges and noting how before um World War II few Americans earned enough to be subject to income taxation so income tax wasn't as big of a thing until you start creating uh if until the working class grows into having a middle class too so we see after World War II a middle classing emerge America is more wealthy because of all of the different things that have emerg f

rom World War II including the United Nations um there's you know in global trade is is growing and D D D um and that's why it starts to matter that there are income taxes um and so people start having to pay income taxes and there start being ways uh that people want tax exemption and tax deductions and this is by a guy um dang Peter Peter Hall or something he's like an economist and he he an an academic who does stuff in this sort of hisory um here oh damn I want to wonder if there's a better

way to show this graphic so these are all of the different tax exempts types of organizations that are tax exempt corporations organized under an act of Congress um religious educational charitable scientific or literary organizations organizations that test for Public Safety organizations that prevent cruel th to children or animals or Foster National or International amateur sports competition so what is the 501c3 status really mean like who is under that oh yeah sorry it's so small but so ACI

is a 501c3 your the church down the road is a 501c3 Boston University actually that might not be true organization can fit under this category it's an enormous category 501c3 is an is an incredibly huge category so many things can fit in there um and then there's other like forms of organization from labor and agriculture so like unions um but even like social and recreational clubs could fit into 501c3 like it it's not like because like those could be educational those could also be religious

based those could be you know like that's true there are probably other technicalities in registering that come up uh that make it so that that a group like a social and wck club would fit as 51 C7 but it's true that probably the activities you would associate with a social and Rec Club could be found out of 51 C32 fraternities are tax exempt that's that's crazy a no way are sororities on cemeteries well I think it includes retirement funds cemeteries life insurance oh wait wait what is that Mut

ual Insurance Company okay I'm not sure what a mutual insurance company is but it sounds like the definitions themselves need to be like things yeah like over yeah like how many different laws came to generate this whole list of 27 different 501c3 sorry 501c organizations like black lung benefit trust for coal mine operators so something happened where there needed to be something special set up for that post or organizations of past or present members of the Armed Forces who like Veterans of th

e Foreign Wars Parkway has like all of these different like veteran centers um posted along its Highway any who the point of that was to to show like what like what even it to ask like what even is the like what even is the third sector and to understand that it's like so so hugely defined because or like it's so hugely defined and and know to an extent that it's like well where does that leave what the government's role is all of these like organizations of P of like what could be considered pu

blic life are being like relegated to non-government to non to something not stewarded by the people or stewarded democratically in some way okay let's get to um no that's interesting but I want to get to little oh yeah okay so this okay let's read this anybody volunteer okay I have a hard time reading out loud but it's okay I can do it no it's okay um so Hess is a historian like Hall was okay okay their non-governmental status and avowedly international and humanitarian character enabled them t

o project a liberal image as non non logical and responsive institutions they were of course not dependent on the political processes that governed Congressional author could earmark funds for a project that might have taken months if ever to get through Congress Foundation officials frequently enjoyed a sture and recipient countries that was beyond the political capacity of their official counterparts for instance the heads of both the Ford and Rockefeller programs in India had access to high l

evel officials and influence government policies and ways that would have been Unthinkable for any American official also at times of stress in US relations with other governments foundations were often able to continue their work without interruption and sometimes became the principal representation of us IND what really sticks out the y' here the um the government is like really entrenched and kind of justs like the DIY work through like different foundations what do you mean can you say more

like like they're able to kind of like use the foundations as kind of like a leeway to still be able to like manage or kind of like have a saying what goes goes on in like countries where like they are able to carry out their agendas in those places it makes me think of like missionary work for example and how like they're very very in mention kind of like uring that like us interests for example are still being carried out and like you know like the agendas are still like being like discriminat

ed to people that are like in the country specifically yeah missionaries who are also taxic them right TR is and people have to pay to go on this missionary CU just like how does that work that's that's that's interesting for sure like you feel like $1,000 to like go build a house that literally has like no place in like the climate for example that you're building the house in who actually ends up living in those houses and how are those houses even governed and the policies that that goal you

know to make sure that like whoever gets leave in these houses like are they actually like that they're benefiting or you know they choose people it's like 15 years I the inity that's like already in existence at the places yeah I think ke drawing out here as you were saying is that yes government can or like yes a country can a country's interest can be executed by the um by the foundations and that that's important because it's also the the F the foundations get to get to act in this that like

that's why another word for the third sector is the Shadows SPI because it is it is a reflection it is the shadow of the government that because it's not tied to and there's no accountability there's no accountability system for a 51 C3 once it's once it's founded the only thing that the that the 501c3 is a accountable to is its own board that's it and it and it has to report to the IRS but as long as it achieved whatever the mission is that the organization itself wrods there is nothing that c

an that is that is working to regulate that entity out in the world just want to get to one more thank you oh yes okay last quote that we're going to go through together from Ruth Wilson Gilmore has anyone ever heard of Ruth Wilson Gilmore do you know what she does remember I just remember reading a lot of like texts by her in class yeah yeah she's a she's a she's a geographer and she's an abolitionist geographer who's really looking at how the way we map the way we design Society um determines

how the social relations within that Society are happen end up um okay car could you read this when activist started to use the term prison industrial complex they intended to say as much about the INRI connections reshaping the US landscape as we suggested by term military industrial complex from tal and communism to T and crime the consistency between the two conflex is line how broadly their reach has compromised all sorts of alternative Futures the main point here is not that the few corpora

tions call the shots they don't rather an entire realm of social policy and social investment is costed to the development and Perfection of means of mass punishment from prison to F relased conditions implicating a wide range of people and places oh that's it from her okay so how how do you how are you all understanding this idea of a nonprofit industrial complex or do you have any questions or curiosity about like what these other industrial complexes are being coined to describe it makes me t

hink that all the um nonprofit are part of a larger kind of like group or like functioning to kind of like reach a specific goal or specific goals that are like in term of having like a lot of like social implications and and there's like this thing that I really that I think about a lot where like I realize that like there's so many nonprofits there's so many things that exist kind of like working towards the same goals the same way that they operate but none of them are are connected to each o

ther nobody knows what they're doing yet they seem to have the same goal and yet nothing is being done we can't really process or like see like what actually is being accomplished just so we know that all of these things exist and rather than seeing themselves as part of like a larger structure they just see themselves as individual ideas like places that exist and thinking their little tasks and stuff rather than like oh maybe we should actually like work together to actually have like a really

big social impact rather than like you know these individualism kind of like aspect of themselves kind of like like just isolation they just work you know and and this you know it kind of like makes me think like like the way like ACI is operating right now you guys have like all these connections to other like organizations that have they're like you know trying to like have an impact in communities yet you're just you're making sure that like you guys are like being involved in like the work

that they're doing and how they're doing it so that like you guys are actually like working towards like the goal of just like having like a big Community impact if that makes sense you know rather than like you guys exist on your own you guys are going to make your own little individual work and you guys are not responding or like not connected to everyone else that's existing when really if you guys came together and actually like work for like those goals then it goes back to the idea of like

um the one that saying earlier like working your way out of a job rather than just like doing the bare minimum is like not being responsible for each other that like that way the drugs keep goinging rather the goal is to like make sure like the community gets their needs done everyone is actually just like you know like getting you know everything that the goal was set out to be done that's that makes sense yeah I agree like I think this like space and everything that's going on in here is one

of the first times I've seen so many nonprofits being connected to one another like every single one that I've we've like known about WR about they felt very like scattered and very private it's serving their own interest right not and I don't I don't I don't feel like the reach that they have and I feel like if they were a little more connected like their presence would be bigger their impact would be bigger and like like the good they can do would also be have more than them yeah and I feel li

ke you've seen that like we see that Effectiveness like also talking about like POS positing lead movements and you know movements globally and like um and you know talking about um how like you know a lot of SJP work together across campuses even like Boston like to have one impact and have that thing happen and then we move on in except so I think like the way that kind of like working together is very effective but also like see it so dangerous too and like often the collaborations that we do

see feel very temporary like it's one project and once it's done they split off again MH and it it doesn't feel like [Music] longterm yeah so I'm hearing like the importance of building a mass movement to contradict this like this you know industrial complex that I think can be thought of as like it is a system that is created to continue itself but the law is that continuing itself relies on an extraction of what is ultimately a finite rock floating through space um and so if we're not working

ourselves out of a job you know part of the reason or or you know personal story behind that could be just that someone like has achieved a a baseline level of like wellness and prosperity through the nonprofit job they have and so it is a scary Prospect to work oneself out of a job potentially um because the way that it's designed right now lets it simply renew itself that you can have a rot 9 to 5 day but your quality of life will never change throughout your life it will probably just get be

tter because you know you have all these ways to build wealth once you start making wealth um instead of yeah tackling the the thing that makes it a complex which is like the reinforcing system right because I um you know like one of the ways that I think the nonprofit industrial complex can tie really to the military-industrial complex is it's like all of these wars being waged around the world with American taxes and American funded Weaponry um they're creating Refugee and immigrant and other

sort of crises where people then flow back to the to us the original country of harmd doing and then where are they going nonprofits but also like if nonprofits are not working towards like achieving kind of for like Collective and social Wellness then we're just going to keep going with the prison industrial complex and met industrial complex because if the needs of the communities are not be met how the military how is the military going to use their tactics can of kind of like convince us to

we're going to fund your education we're going to make you money you're going to have X Cy benefits and how a person is going to be able to like you know keep growing if People's needs are being met therefore you know they don't have to tackle poverty they don't have to like steal you know like food or anything or resources just to get their basic needs met so you know like that's kind of like part of the um post relase conditions kind of like that that she's talking about here and like the mass

punish aspect of it too yeah we're over time so we need to come to an end but Ari is there anything you wanted to share or yeah last thoughts here no just thank you guys so much and this was such like a really I feel like beautiful and really tangible way to like wrap up like so many ideas and like that was really helpful for like an overview cool I'm glad yeah so we did not get to the part of agenda which was on like trying to dream and imagine or propose like what the alternatives are I think

we really focused on the problem which I think is really worthwhile um and anyone has ideas for a mood boost at the end I super welcome that um and so next week we're not meeting but first out yeah Logistics is that next week we're not meeting the week after is the field trip to Providence I need to email y'all about that because the timing shifted by an hour so now my question is if we can leave at 12: noon instead of leaving at 11:00 a.m. leave at 12:00 noon and come back and be back by 400 p

.m. so before I was going to get you leaving here and back 11: to 3 and now I need to ask about 12: to 4:00 p.m. and if it doesn't work I understand they changed the time on me of the event this is the 24th the 24th yeah we would depart from here in a van what do you got at 4 2:30 um oh so you're already G to have to miss because it was 12 to 3 practice it's mostly practice thing like we I think we would I think I'll be okay like I'm not going to miss any content like we're just doing run throug

hs how is it from 2:30 to 8 that way yeah it's cuz we have competitions coming up and we're kind of like rush through form and the choreography but I think we'll be done with like learning everything and then by that time we're just doing run throughs I can I can check keep me posted and it's okay if you have to miss too um we can maybe see if we can FaceTime you in or something but yeah yeah I'll be in touch with you all about that about getting the welcome packet about confirming each of y'all

's banking information um any final questions I send email myself to my mentor or oh no I'll send the email connecting you too yeah with I have ideas email yeah same with you Ari I have brixie's email I'll send one awesome thank you okay let's just Dobe like a quick like Shakedown so like set up and then we'll do like each of our Limbs and then our whole body um counting down from four so like 4 3 2 1 4 3 2 two 1 Leg 3 two one leg 3 two one body body body body body 3 two 1 3 two one 3 two one 3

two one 3 two one two one two one two one two one two one one one one one one okay you did it thank you please help me clean up by putting your dishes by scraping all the food scraps into the chash and then putting the dishes the dishwasher thank you so much Ari thank you guys have a good week I'll see you in two [Music] weeks