Community Building: Calling to Action Peers, Systems, and Resources

Oh, sure, yeah. We're missing one. Okay. Okay, alright. Yeah. Okay. Yes, just one. Okay. Yep. Alright, hello everyone. We are in our last workshop in this series. It's been a pretty full 2 days. We're so happy to offer this to you and to have such a wide attendance. So thank you for tuning in and and being such an active member to all of our attendees of the presentations that we're offering so the comments the QA everything has been really live. We appreciate the engagement. I'm most impressed

by the fact that we have had 4 or 5. 5 panels are all. Super diverse different panelists for each segment. People willing to just come forward and and share their experiences and their insights so We can not do these without. The wonderful panelists so just constantly shouting out to all of them and and appreciative and respectful and grateful of what you're all offering. So I'm going to share my slides here. For our last topic of our 2 day conference which is community building. Peers, systems,

and resources. So I'm going to give a few slides of education around this and then we're going to segue into a panel where I'll present a series of questions. And please feel free at that time to enter your questions. In the Q&A as well. We'll see if there's a few that we could pull from that. Okay. So why do we do these? Why do we do the education? Why are we, you know, driven to improve competency and in general. As clinicians, this is my dog's tail. I'm so sorry. He's like getting involved.

Why are we driven to do this work as clinicians? Why are you all signed on today, right? Early in my career working with first responders and veterans, this came up a lot, this call to action, like your why, right? That's what we would call it. Like what's your why? Why do you do this work? The accountability word would come up a lot because You know, veterans serve the country. They Are the minority in the country and part of that service is protecting. Civilians and our ability to live the liv

es we live safely. So on the community side, you know, it's our responsibility. We're accountable for kind of like welcoming them back into these systems that are meant to support them. So that's that's my why like I'm driven by the fact that these this is the minority that's done so much for us. But that framing idea of like the call to action is sometimes wrapped around mission, purpose, passion, you know, why you might be interested in working with veterans, for example. And it's also wrapped

around the statistics that we're gonna go into a bit. Because for many reasons veterans can be vulnerable, susceptible to certain risks. So when we talk about risk factors in the community, there are, you know, areas that get They get hit sometimes as far as like where support is missing and where some of the pieces might be missing. For what we are offering. So we'll go into that a little bit too, cause it plays into this call to action in this. This question of like how do we build our commun

ities better to sustain and support the needs of the veteran community. Alright, so we're going back to this slide that was from yesterday, right? So people entered into the military from different paths. Thousands, millions of different paths, right? And each person's experiences and the implications of that are distinctive and different and have a different set of means. So I want to go back to that when we're now talking about like very specifically building resources. And building systems th

at support. The diversity of those needs. So these are just not basic ordinary trainings that we're offering. These are all built into this call to action. Where our goal is to increase awareness, confidence, understanding and support. And we want to collaborate, you know, on a, on the community side. To create this new and improved veteran civilian culture. Cool. So why is competence important? It goes without saying, but It helps us to build our community to build our resources. Helps us to st

ay current. This is a big one. So I've been doing this work for just over 15 years and like the the culture of health care services, mental health services, veteran services has evolved so greatly just in that relatively short time. So all of that, you know, to say. Staying current is not just about like learning what the new best trauma therapy is, although that's part of it. I apologize for my dog misbehavior. Stan Kern is also about keeping ourselves up to date with regards to the culture of

today, the culture of health care today and again where those gaps are like I've learned a lot through identifying gaps and then trying to figure out ways to. You know, loopholes or if you will, you know, just like different avenues to connect people with the resources they need. Accepting the fact that these gaps do exist. Improves our overall performance and then back to this notion of like not knowing something can actually be harmful. So this idea of civic duty, right? This accountability on

the civilian side on the health care side. To support the needs of the veteran community and their families in the military community. That really, can Give a sense of empowerment when you're not sure like am I built as a clinician to work with veterans is that something I'm able to do? Just like with any population like if that's if you think that maybe then probably you are right and just that that sense of like, yes, let's let's do this because there is a huge need out there. So, when we are

. Kind of like categorizing or dissecting the needs of veterans. They They can go into all of the layers that we discussed in the previous workshops, but to break it down like in the most basic way possible, right? We can have, and this was not, this is, I try not to pull my stuff from Google because it's, you know, so like linear that way. I tried to fill it in based on what I've seen, right? Working with veterans. Over the years right so Well, ness employment, peers, mental health, physical he

alth, medical health, right, family, legal issues, benefits, navigating benefits. For some, it's housing, it's community support, social support. For some, it's as little as like I would like to go every quarter to an event in the community that veterans go to can be anything can be a hike, can be a drum circle, very involved in drum circles. And it could be as much as My medical needs, my mental health needs, and my benefits all need to be explored and figured out, right? Like and anywhere in b

etween. So and again this evolves over time. So just being prepared to have these conversations and to point people in the right direction because it's fair to say that as a clinician you might not be suited to meet all of these needs but being able to be kind of like a resource directory I know in the last workshop one of the panel said that Melanie. Kind of the brains behind the operation with this. She she's a wealth of knowledge with regards to resources and I just think that that's so vital

as well for us as clinicians just to understand what's out there and to make referrals when needed. So building in PR resources with that in mind, I am not a veteran. I did not serve if I'm working with somebody who needs to speak to another veteran, it's important that I identify that. And connect them with that person, right, with the understanding that I will serve in the capacity that I am with them, but they may need something outside of what I'm offering. Assistance with navigating the VA

and community agencies and then just identifying the needs like sitting with somebody and identifying what are the needs that you have right now short and long term. So quite simply, Unfortunately, it feels stigmatizing sometimes when you look at this from a clinical lens because Someone might wanna just come into your office and work on like prevention skills like life goals and goal setting and family and things like that but more often unfortunately we see these things right like we see peop

le that have chronic pain or insomnia or anxiety, post-traumatic stress. Because we as a community all of us tend to wait until it's unmanageable before we reach out for help. We wait until it's reached one of these things, right? So hopelessness, loss of identity, I'm completely lost. I don't know what to do with myself. I'm disconnected from my family. I was kicked out, you know, my spouse kicked me out. Or have trauma that's been unresolved for years and now it's keeping me awake at night, ri

ght? Like it could be any of these things, but the transitional challenges that we see in our offices. Are usually more severe than, preventive. So, and those are more like the psychological emotional challenges, but then there's people that have medical issues, right? And some often they're tied together. So we had brought up during our prep meeting like environmental risks. You know, that someone who serves, is exposed to. And this can vary, service to service, era to era in terms of when some

body serves if they are overseas, if they are not. But in general exposure to these risks is part of serving in the military, right? The potential exposure to these risks. And then for some, unfortunately, exposure to them. So chemicals, nuclear weapons, right? H and orange, it's a big one for Vietnam era veterans, contaminated water explosives. These are all risks that are inherent in the job. And if somebody is talking to you about like presumptive conditions, this comes up a lot too. Those ar

e basically conditions that are correlated directly with one service. And oftentimes they're like respiratory pulmonary, cancer related or trauma related. There are more, but these are pretty common. So I bring up all of this kind of like doom and gloom stuff first because it's segue into Hey, there are needs out there that we need to address, right? Like this is this is all the call to action. And then the next part is like community building. How do we do it? What can we do better? Like let's

be proactive. And then of course I'm gonna queue up the panelists and they're gonna go into these things as well. But yeah, there's some stats and rates that really are eye opening. We know some of them are ready and I think these are. A few years back, but like you get you get the idea the trajectory hasn't changed much. Over the past 5 to 10 years but suicide rates are up, overdose rates are up. Unemployment rates are up for veterans. Divorce rates even, right? Like if we just want to talk abo

ut quality of life. Employment rates. Right? People, a lot of veterans struggle with finding. Work after leaving the service because they have this this comprehensive list of skills that apply very specifically to like first responder services and then they are not sure what to do with that beyond that. You know, exposure to trauma. Gaps in transitions. Couple of stats here that I wanted to pull. More than 80% of civilian organizations have no veteran specific recruiting programs and more than 5

0% offer no onboarding or transition support to better acquires. Right like stuff that's you know might not be seen as a critical need but could snowball and escalate to somebody not finding a job and therefore not being able to have the quality of life that they're looking for and maybe that person starts to isolate right and one thing leads to another. 35% of veterans say they have trouble paying their bills in the first few years after leaving the military, right? So we're talking about trans

itional gaps here. And then, you know, not to mention the idea that there are some heavy psychological issues that veterans are again faced with as like risk factors for joining the service. And this can lead to feelings of hopelessness or. Like dead ends I don't know where to turn right and they can be related to loss complicated loss and bereavement or just being exposed to difficult situations over and over again to the point where someone might feel hopeless or helpless. Or have black and wh

ite thinking, all or nothing thinking. Which usually doesn't end well. So where are the gaps and I'm gonna I'm gonna ask the panelists at some point their opinion on this. Gaps in service. It's going to vary depending on where the person is like some people will say I had a great experience with my local VA and then I saw an outpatient provider who specialized in working with veterans and I got the medical care I needed. I connected with a peer group in the community. They're gonna say all of th

ese things worked out for them. That's what we want to hear. Geographically, you know, the geography dictates this to an extent. Resources that are available and. Kind of where they start their journey of looking for support. Some people just started the wrong place where maybe the services are not prevalent. And then that turns them away from continuing to look and then. You know, this is what we don't want people falling through the cracks in general at healthcare. Obviously this happens. Hate

to hear these stories. And this could happen with other, you know, populations as well, obviously, just like the. The system so to speak is not always set up in the most streamlined way and some people get kind of lost in navigating that. So now let's be proactive for a minute. The question is how do we create more sustainable systems? Right? Like the call to action in terms of building our resources and building our communities. What does it mean to truly support veterans? Not just for credit

because some companies have like hiring credits. But then like no credit for retention for example I've heard this a lot what are longer term recovery plans that we could look at? Ways to support multiple life areas at once as opposed to saying Let's look at, you know, these 10 things in a sequence that doesn't make sense to the person and it becomes segregated. So we're talking about truly meeting the needs. I always like to bring in a couple of references and attendees usually wanna reading li

st or book list. Joseph Campbell writes a lot about the hero's journey. So if you want to look up a pretty good author Joseph Campbell, talks about 3 stages of the Warriors journey, departure initiation and return. And, there's some content in there about the return and the community big and active part of that. Phase. And how, you know, in ancient times years ago the community was more active in welcoming warriors home. And we've kind of growed away from that in like the modern day of how we op

erate. This is a pretty cool transformational model that you could also find information about. If you look this up, soldiers heart. But if you look at the actual points on it, like the restoration and community, right? And like acknowledgement of the old self. Hope coming, grief, loss, culture shock, anger, pain, and displacement. Making meetings, seeking spirituality, brotherhood sisterhood transformation like these. Kinda buzzwords when we talk about the phases of reintegration. Some of them

are linear like, you know, medical needs and, benefits and, some of them are deeper and I find that. Those. The needs areas all run parallel to each other. Like they're all relevant. Yeah. Skip forward a little bit just for sake of time. So things that I found. Effective beneficial and I'm also gonna ask the panelists like what are some techniques that you have. Experienced or seen with others that you have found to be beneficial. People always ask for services like what can we recommend? So thi

s is a list of services I personally have been like traded and working with first responders, anything that can help someone to down regulate can be yoga, can be breathing, narrative processing which can be done through art, writing. Or just storytelling. Resiliency building skills. Different types of trauma therapy is different types of expressive therapies. Also, I didn't put it on here, but anything experiential that has movement involved, like I've been involved even in kayak trips where gro

ups of veterans go out. And then you do like a talking circle afterwards. It's real, anything that's like movement based, seems to be very effective. I did put it on this list. So nature base programs. Things that paved the way for camaraderie and connections to peers. Patharsis or releasing whatever you know that person has stored whether it's memories or just frustrations or sadness. Connection to purpose. So we talked about this yesterday too and I do like to just like tie in some of the past

workshops into the last one. To do full circle but this this idea of public truth telling if you recall Just has to do with holding space in groups for stories to be heard and there's great value in that. So any space where there could be a group of like 2 or more, I'll say a veterans talking together. Or experiencing something together. Has great value. So what is universal for most people? Best case scenario, there are 2 things. They are going back to home and they're going back to community.

So potentially hope can provide this list of benefits potentially. Safety security purpose. This is what we want home to feel like, right? Acceptance, love and nurture and for some it doesn't. But generally it's a pretty universal like desire for somebody to have some sense of home even if it's just like an apartment that they feel comfortable in. For some it might be a large family system, right? And then community, whatever that looks like, can be tied into a career and to work into colleague

s. School job opportunities, but basically community is like connection with others. How do they navigate connection with others? So resources for better or worse are continuously growing. Some of them are not great. Some of them are fantastic, right? So helping people to navigate those. And what I found to be the best resources are ones that are coordinated with each other, not segregated, encompassing, meaning bringing in multiple life areas at once. Diverse because we are not one size fits al

l and veterans are definitely not one size fits all. They have different needs. Holistic and progressive but also evidence-based like this is known to be effective. And just highly individualized like I like to offer somebody multiple different options so they could sit and tell me, well, this is something that I think would work for me. This is, just like a snapshot of. What most veterans want integration to feel like. And unfortunately, sometimes it feels like this. And our job I feel in the c

ommunity especially as clinicians like we are trained professionals to help support people is to help them find this empowerment, the success, the you know, the outcome. That they're looking for. Through whatever avenue that it's. Part of that is supporting veterans in the workforce. I know we talked about this topic potentially for the next set of treatings that we do. I think it's a great topic. And we talked yesterday about like the list of skills that veterans have and this list goes on and

on, but it's a big, topic area in terms of like supporting transitions in a way that's a little bit out of the box because Might not be something that comes to mind first, but it's definitely a missing piece in the community. So talking about these things, step one, like we, you know, should be aware of them. We should act, collaborate, advocate, advise. Not be afraid to jump in and work with veterans and their families. And then we keep going back to this active listening. It's come up in almos

t every single workshop, but it really enables us to be better prepared. Gives us a clear sense of what's being asked or stated and offers validation to the person who's talking to you. That alone can build a baseline competency if you have no competency at all working with the population, but you actively listen to what that person is telling you. That's step one in terms of building your own competency. So food for thought, these are just other areas that we would like to explore in the future

. So just wanted to give kind of like a teaser into that. Including supporting veterans in the workforce, but advocacy efforts. And empowering veterans via education. Because learning should be ongoing. I am constantly learning new things about working with veterans and their families. And as it should be, right? So I'm glad that we're all here today to learn and to listen and. We now offer you this final workshop of. Our 2 day conference. Gonna segue over into this group of panelists on the top

ic of building peer systems and resources and community building. So my first question I think would be great if you each could just introduce yourself and why you are on this panel today. Hey, why don't I start if I'm first on the list? Is that okay? Go for it, got the thumbs up. Okay, thanks. That I'm still on the picture of the wedding party being attacked by the sharks on the ice that's created some I don't know, post-traumatic experiences not to minimize it. So my name is Ward. I've just re

tired. From private practice, maybe 25 years and I'm still at LCSWR until until like I can clear that up and move into the world. Of business. So make that that might come up later, but I came home from Afghanistan in 2,006 and began that private practice so it's been a vet. But I was a company commander with the 20 fifth inventory division, 2,004 5 6 and was 10 years in the army. Good for now. Thank you, Award. Who would like to go next? I volunteer Jeremy as tribute because he's next on the li

st. I saw Tim. I was waiting for him to join. Okay. You all need so much order in your life, Steele. Come on. Yeah. I thought we started a trend here from the beginning so all right well hello everyone my name is Jeremy Doors. I'm the peer to peer coordinator up here. For the Dwyer project in the Adirondacks of New York, which is. About 4 h north of new york city and probably about an hour and a half south of the Canadian border. So it's beautiful country up here. Difficult to explain to folks w

hen you say you're from New York and they're like, oh yes. Skyscrapers and subways and I'm like, no, no, mountains and trees. So, I'm here today because I'm a an advocate of peer support. I think as we have gone along through this because my my background originally I was an orchestral musician 100 years ago. And then when I got out of the Marine Corps. Had to shift gears using my GI build benefits to figure out what I want to do and I studied history and political philosophy. Got a bachelor's a

nd master's in that and then made another shift. And went into pure support and I found through collaborating with a lot of folks across New York State. In the Dwyer program. The effectiveness of peer support. How important it is and that it really takes a particular type of veteran. Because many of us are service oriented, we really want to help. But it takes a particular skill set to be effective. And I think this is something that I think should be replicated across all 50 states. Probably no

t run by the federal government i would say the states understand what works best. Ward and I have talked about this a little bit before. So thank you for having me and I'm not sure who's going to go next. I'll mute myself. I'll jump in. Thank you. I appreciate this and my name is Tim Scott. I'm a I served in, I joined. The active duty army infantry as an infantry scout. At the age of 17 and So since then. Long journey up to now I became a clinical social worker and and also I'm now a full-time

professor of social work and Yeah, there's a lot to say about this. I. If you're not asking questions, we're doing introductions now. So I'll wait until we get into that. I just do want you Okay, I got to say is there we got 2 jar heads in the room. Right. You were saying a lot of big words and then using a lot of big concepts. So hoping you have, you know, someone in this sixth grade level and interpreting all that to them is we're going along here. Yes. That's a. That's. Products, the long to

keep me calm. Okay. Thank you, yes. All right, Dylan, you're all muted. Did you want to say something? Do I have to? Yeah, I mean you can. You're on the panel, say something. Alright, so. My name is Dylan Dumba. I'm a Marine veteran. My likes include tabletop games. My dislikes include introducing myself to large groups of people. But I have a very personal connection with my local veteran community purely because it really kind of was the thing that helped me out of a rut. Because when I transi

tioned out of the military, I Got to come home. Go back to a room I had not been in. For over like 4 years of my life. And I realized, wow, I have. Pretty much no friends. That I have seen recently. My family treats me up like a stranger, a good stranger, someone that they're proud of, but I I realized that I looked at them and they looked at me and they're just like you're you're not the same person. I'm like, no, no, I'm not. And that was a very difficult transition for everyone all around. An

d I had no idea what I was doing for the longest time. And I was trying to push through school trying to go through motions, jobs, anything that would be normal for an adult I attempted and somewhat floundered at until I was introduced to the local veteran supporting communities. Through various organizations such as the wire. And like what was the American Legions? And that really helped. It helped really introduce me to the fact that, oh. I'm not the only one going through this and it reminded

me that there's an entire community of people like me and all of a sudden I was like okay then I'm I'm not alone in this conceptual struggle and it made me want to be better not only for myself but for my community. Yes. Anisa. Can I impromptu join the panel? Cause it seems like, Mickey may not be able to step in and we were trying to get a female veteran. Yeah, of course, jump in. How do we do I have to do anything or? Okay. No, not. Yeah, so everyone was gonna, if she jumped in, I'll jump out

. Yeah, so everyone was gonna, if she jumped in, I'll jump out. You were gonna get, like a personal, role model of mine an army that who is like a wonderful person and author and but it's like that meme we want this we have this at home and then it's like the rip off. So, I will fill in with her until she comes. My name is Melanie Corinne. My name is Melanie Corin. I'm a marine veteran, so she comes. My name is Melanie Corinne. I'm a marine veteran so there are 3 Marines on this panel. You all w

ould have been outnumbered That's it, it's over. Tim's like try me. We need one more for fire team. So, I I'm a I'm a ring for a bet I was in Arabic linguist I did intelligence work. I did intelligence work. I have my degree in creative writing. I'm a writer. I have interned in the bluebloods writers room. I have been through some veteran screenwriting fellowships and I'm currently a moderator for, the Tumblr blog writing with color, which helps people, helps a writers and creatives learn how to

write BYPA community members with like mindful representation. So, I love storytelling and, I was the Dwyer project coordinator for Suffolk County for a while doing better and peer support. Now I help at the state level and I've started my own business where I do contracting and support, veteran advocacy and artists mostly. So a lot of weird stuff, but, I just wanted to desperately make sure there was no lack of female veterans on this panel because as you guys all know they are the biggest gro

wing. Demographic of veterans. Alright, so I'm gonna I'm gonna kick it off with like. Kinda just What are the most significant gaps that you see in services for veterans? And or where do you wanna see the most improvement? Oh, I got a lot of feelings on this one. So. I look at this. A little bit from like a logistical point of view and I'm like what is the thing that can tangibly help the most veterans who are most in need? And when I look at that I see all these federal programs and why aren't

veterans using all these federal programs because like half of these federal programs did not exist in the past 25 years or were not as obtainable or as useful. As in the past 25 years. The system has been constantly changing and evolving. Point where I still find Vietnam vets or like what do you mean I can get paid for my PTSDM just like you Sir, where have you been? What have they done to you? Dylan, you should tell them what you do for a living so you establish like Oh yes, yes, I hope. Veter

ans, get their VA benefits. Through various means I also help families of veterans receive their benefits. Through survivors or aid and attendance and things like that for a law firm. And because of that I've gotten very adept at looking at the system and I like breaking down problems. It's one of my many favorite things and I realized, wow, there's a lot of problems to break down here. When you look at the things because the federal services have all these wonderful useful tools. The issue is n

obody can seem to reach them. Either they don't know about them or there's actual gaps in service like actually getting to the VA hospital. Or getting someone on the phone who can help you. Or various things like that. Let me. Tim, if you are talking, I unfortunately can't hear you. Okay. I was just gonna agree with Dylan that I don't I don't know if there's a lack of services as there's a problem with connectivity and and that's the kind of challenge I've seen a lot of fellow veterans struggle

with coming home. And like Dylan said, there's great capacity, but we're not getting there in terms of like logistics like getting people where the services are. I got inspired and started a company that brings services right into people's homes. There's, there's a kind of a going to ground concept that a lot of veterans on occasion struggle with to go to ground. Means you just sort of disappeared in the woods or into your house or within your family and it's been kind of a tragedy to see a lot

of veterans just sort of isolate themselves despite this huge number of services and a lot of energy. People that want to help them. And I don't know if there's a quick solution, but that's going to be where this goes a little bit. There's been some terrific programming around collegiality like the wounded warrior camaraderie concept. Which if you're not familiar with it, is a powerful well funded, nationwide program sort of connecting veterans to each other, but completely tricking them by havi

ng them in the woods doing fun, crazy things, kayaking, driving. 4 wheelers over sand dunes and being stupid. As long as there's no drinking or drugs and they have a good time, you wind up making these terrific friends within these systems that are actually designed to be connected and very much clinical. It just doesn't look like it on the surface. So if I could just piggyback on what we were saying and, cause I had, an opportunity to meet with someone from DOD about a month ago and I'm sure th

at you guys probably went through a similar Tamps class as we're being processed out. Where it was essentially 2 days. They throw a whole bunch of uninspired information at you. The person presenting is really like, oh yeah, whatever. And everybody is kind of looking at the clock saying is this over yet I want to get out of here. The DOD has made a radical transformation of their Tamps class now and they start looking they start speaking with the active duty service member one year out. So 365 d

ays from their EAS, they say, okay, hey, you're gonna start taking examinations to see how prepared you are mentally financially. For getting out of the service. And depending on the way you score, there's 3 tiers. I think if they said if you score in the tier 3, you know what you're gonna do. You're financially set. You know, you've got the next steps planned and you're ready to get out. Whereas if you go to tier one, you, you are mandated to take a number of courses on the way out. So it reall

y is preparing these folks and the presenter from the DOD actually said we've had a number of active duty service members say financially I'm not prepared to get out. So I have to reenlist or, you know, extend their time and service to better prepare, which is huge. So I think DOD is recognizing like, hey, these stamps class that we were offered, you know, I got out in 2,004. You know, I had no idea. You get out and there's so much out there. You're not exposed to much. And you have a different

difficult time reaccclimating not only you know socially because you're different. It changes you. And what you went as you know as you enter the service you know a lot of folks you know recognize like oh hey good to see you you're not that person anymore not to say that oh hey good to see you you're not that person anymore not to say you you're not that person anymore not to say that you're it's Jekyll and Hyde but you know the you know, there's different varying levels of trauma that Pretty mu

ch, everyone's exposed to, and depending on who you are when you go in, cause, you know, I've always said this and I said this at a number of panels that, you know, we all know one person who really has a difficult time with that cup of spilled milk on the table and it's absolute tragedy. And then there's the other end of the spectrum. You know, the house is burning down around them like, you know, we might want to head towards the exit and they can actually just, you know, respond to all this.

So those folks you know that whole spectrum of human being enters the military service and the different branches. You know, we would say that the military service and the different branches, you know, we would say that the Air Force is a completely different branches. You know, we would say that the Air Force is a completely different experience than the Marine Corps. And I think some of these used car salesmen that get folks is a completely different experience than the Marine Corps. And I thi

nk some of these used car salesmen that get folks into the Marine Corps. And I think some of these used car salesmen that get folks into the military, they're known as recruiters. They don't necessarily prepare these folks, mentally, sometimes physically. I think we all went through that. I saw those folks at Paris Island being like, man. Did you do any running before you joined? You know, and they go to the the PCP, right? The pork chop platoon and you know they can't do They can't do any pull

ups, you know, for about a month or so. So which means that they're on Paris Island for 6 months and that's awful, you know, and then you know they get out process so there's all sorts of different experiences and have profoundly different effects depending on the individual. So DOD now is recognizing like, hey, we have to address this because, you know, I'm certainly not, a license clinician, but I see that that the the suicide that will really the root of this that we're trying to get to is a

manifestation of despair. And if these folks are feeling like I just can't, I can't get out of my own way. I'm feeling like there's no hope then they'll they'll turn to that that ultimate resolution you know that permanent solution to a temporary problem and that seems like the best course of action. So then, you know, I think us is folks that that have the experience and the desire to help our fellow veterans. We really have to embrace that opportunity to help these folks because like Dylan sai

d, you know, many Vietnam veterans have such an antipathy towards anything when it comes to VA services. You know, they're in the dark for a long time, but they don't realize that a lot of these institutions and processes have have evolved. But significantly since the 19 seventys and they're missing opportunities to significantly enhance the quality of their life simply because they're stuck in that mindset like well they're gonna call me a baby killer or spit on me or whatever and they're like

not it's it's not like that anymore and I think it truly takes another veteran you know VA rep they're gonna be like hey get away from me and I'm armed just so you know so whereas another veteran when they're coming up like hey you know let's go out to lunch hey let's go to this hiking event we got a hunting event whatever it is you know to get them out of that mindset that no one's willing to help and really really in taking a step towards dramatically improving the quality of their life. Yeah,

I agree with everything that my commerce have said so far and, and then to add to that. There's so many layers to this and you know obviously economic stability is foundational for everyone and once. Yeah. That is hard to achieve increasingly for most. Americans. Let alone if you're struggling like veterans, do the unique struggle you veterans have. And then there's, I think when it comes to the idea of what's treatment, you know, what is What is? Normal or can considered to be to prepare treat

ment that comes starting with. The ideology from the DSM. Okay. And as paired to billing, right, and insurance companies and obviously other, you know, through through BAs and such, but still there this idea that the DSM. Which basically reduces that all of everyone everyone who seeks services that veterans or non veterans to a cluster of symptoms, right? And it's dehumanizing. And I talk about dehumanization a lot, right, in, in the work I do, but it's with including with veterans and that as a

pplied to veterans is that we become a cluster of symptoms and that means that these so-called evidence-based which, just means practices that serve. The ideology and are in line with the ideology of the DSM or the hegemony of the DSM. Into, you know, Basically, we're gonna apply cookie cutter. Types of treatments and interventions. That's a huge problem. And, Breaking out of that is hard because a lot of us clinicians are trained and brought up that way and our interests, our status is all tied

to it. But ultimately is that, oh, and plus. The research on meta-analysis of the efficacy of treatment consistently shows that It's largely primarily related to the nature of our relationship. With clients. Not in it. You know, that no matter what interventions you use. So coming back, you know, and you know having these. Well, first, humanizing veterans, we're not a monolith, right? And to bring in more, I believe and what I've really found more helpful with veterans is more existential, huma

nistic, integrated holistic type of processes for veterans to be to be established that, you know, are gonna, and of course experiential. Through a spiritual based person centered. In community for approaches to coping and yelling. And the idea of a new mission or new missions in life, cause that's, we come out, you know, and, you know, with purpose and meaning has been talked about here. So. There's there's a there's a crisis. In the mental health establishment. It's I believe that that's found

ational and then when you apply that to the specific needs of veterans who are ultimately deemed to be disposable or, you know, used as political ponds but still disposable. I'm. So there's there's a lot of layers to this. Yeah. Oh, I, yeah, I agree with. Whatever everyone said and I think we can all agree as we already did just to reiterate that there are I mean. Billions of dollars of support free health care there's there's money there's resources there's programs available to veterans it's n

ot if the resources exist it's bridging that gap because the veterans that need them the most are the ones that are it's the hardest to get them to and that is I think what a lot of us hear. Try to focus on with that community building, whether it's like Ward with his business trying to do, you know, I mean, he isn't service only veterans, but whether he's trying to, you know, take away the mobility aspect, he will come his business, they go to you, right? Like it's mental health mode, like they

go, right? Whether it's Tim who's deconstructing this idea of like literal, I mean, I'm a layman. I'm not a clinician, but like I hear that I don't know if this is true. I'm just I hear that a lot of times clinicians need to diagnose in order to get paid like a lot of times clinicians need to diagnose in order to get paid like insurance wise. So like the system or the health care system might force someone's hand to do something that is, you know, something, but like Tim's over here trying to b

e like, forget about all that we're human beings like human to human, let me. Why to service you as a human being and then like, you know, Dylan and Jeremy over here being peers and so you know and literally kneecap to kneecap just being like we're in the trenches too you know so it's we're all trying to build community in our own ways and I think, some for me some focus as a building community have to be internal to internal to the veteran community. Intergenerational relationships between vete

rans. We need to increase them. Carl Rody mentioned to me just now by text that there's no older veteran on this panel and he's correct. And I, you know, that was an oversight. But and it was a great catch because one thing that has been so formative to my community building is learning from the Vietnam bets because nobody builds community like them. They had I mean back in the day I've said it before 18% of the country were veterans today it's 6% back in the day like a much higher percentage of

our elected officials were veterans today you know it's almost non-existent and so you know all those Vietnam vets that came to Back home and there these resources didn't exist they they relied on each other they got each there were no systems they threw through peer support through building community finding community they helped each other and that was all they had and so today you know I I very much relate to a Johnny on the last panel when she says you know I don't self-identify I'm a write

r I'm an artist. I, you know, identify with everyone on this panel as a fellow veteran, but you know, maybe Jeremy is a musician is the one that interest-based you know maybe I have the most in common with because we're both music like he's a musician of an artist right so it's you know younger veterans are building community around Hobbies and interests, whereas like the older veterans had these life-shaking experiences where they built community around the veteran identity and both those thing

s are okay. And both those things like both people have different both communities have different needs and different experiences but I think it's kind of hard to integrate them, but when you can, you, learn a ton in both directions and it's like the most, it's like communion. It's like the most, it special thing. And I like, I will praise all of like the older veteran committee members because I think we'd be you know you lost without them without their guidance without their expertise and when

a lot of people have been asking in the comments about the thank you for your service right for someone me and Dylan's age, you know, little younger and like I won't speak to we're Jarme or Tim, cause like I don't know what your service, like, I don't know the ins and outs of your service experience. But. You know, I'm not a combat. I did anti ISIS work from from home, you know, from from the office from in Garrison where I was physically safe the whole time we did that work. I don't know what

it's like to have my life shaken by that. So I acknowledge that like there are different community building strategies for different veterans. And it it really upsets me every time I see a Korean War vet a Vietnam vet a World War 2 vet struggling to navigate paperwork, the VA to get, you know, finite help. Finances, emergent needs help, right benefits health care. And the bureaucracy that kind of bars entry is hard for them to navigate, especially as they get older and it's It's really like You

know, this could just be a VA hate panel. Doesn't have to be. I'm just saying, you know, Via does amazing things. So. No, no, no, just a It is the best and the worst. Yeah, sorry, I'm talking too much. With the older veterans that intergenerational community for me is really important. That makes a lot of sense, specifically only like idea of intergenerational connectedness because I really didn't know. How much problems there were in the veterans community until I talked to older veterans that

just didn't know any better about the things they had access to. Like veterans who genuinely like have serious problems that our service connected and I'm just like I Can help you. I'm in the process of helping a lot of them, but it's absolutely ridiculous, but to talk a little bit about what Tim said about how veterans tend to get labeled as a, what was it a pile or a list of symptoms? It's, well, it's the DSM cluster of symptoms, how it works, but yeah, late, but also just were path, you know,

pathologized. And yeah. Just by by the fact that we're veterans right based on many It's all problem, so the problem rather than the resiliencies or the strengths, the nature of the DSM 5. Strength space approach. Yeah. So. Where That is like a gigantic probably problem one more the clinician. Side of things. Ironically enough, I view a different set of symptoms. I view it more as the logistics the community faces. Older generations does not know how to obtain like passage to their benefits. Th

ey don't and many people won't take the time to hold their hand and walk them through that. Oh, but let's, can we caveat and say that's not because of their age or an ineptitude, but because the VA has made so many recent changes, it's almost impossible for someone to keep up. With the new program systemic changes. And so like, I sorry. So in all fairness, yes and no, it depends on the veteran. It may not even be an idea of aneptitude, but genuinely some people leave the military more broken tha

n others and age is kinder to some people than it is with others. So genuinely, it's not a matter of talking down to them. It's just a matter of like, oh, you actually have memory problems. So paperwork and keeping up with things is going to be harder for you now. That's not them. That's just the medical fact that they've been put into and they've been put into and they actually need help to navigate those things. Now in their older years or genuinely if they don't know a system is changed to na

vigate those things now in their older years, or genuinely if they don't know a system has changed to help them, how are they supposed to know to use it? Yeah, the other part that exacerbates it is the increasing use of technology to access a lot of this stuff on the in the VA. You'd be surprised. I mean, and now again, up here, it's a little different. There's a lot of folks who don't have internet. So for them to file a claim themselves, which is kind of crazy anyway, but you know to do that t

hemselves or to check up on a claim you know some of them don't have smartphones there's no internet if they have a computer they don't have access they just don't know how to navigate this stuff so you know there's what do we call it I guess a knowledge deficit it's not It's not ineptitude. It's just, you know, they're like these these technological changes are happening happening so fast that it decreases their ability to get involved with a lot of this stuff. And as a matter of fact, it's whe

n I fill out my monthly Dwyer reports we're still saying like, communication is a serious issue. That's why we have to be on the ground so much. Now I think in urban areas it's a little bit. Less so I think folks know are quite savvy, but up here it's a problem. And, you know, ironically just to kind of piggyback on what Mel is saying. Ironically, the The largest group of veterans, a generation that participates in a lot of our events because that's what we do. We're trying to, we use our events

that we sponsor as a means to triage our veterans where we're just kind of listening to what they're saying. Then like, oh, it sounds like you, you know, need a mechanic or you sounds like you need a dentist or whatever, you know, we, we kind of, you know, take notes and then figure out the best way to help. The number the number of Vietnam veterans that participate in our events It's the largest group. So, you know, the group that we're having the hardest time reaching, believe it or not, is t

he younger veterans, the ones that are just coming out. You, you know what I found the other day, Jeremy, which might, amuse you. I was like, we're all the, Jeremy, which might, amuse you. I was like, we're all the younger vets at and I was minding my own business doing young people things on like discord and TikTok and I found a discord. So Discord is like AOL chat, but like. Modern for video gamers. And it's a place where a lot of young people just do like, basically they're just using the int

ernet to text each other. Is kind of like for anyone that It's a social media, but it, alright, so I found a discord. Server, something about regimen and it had it was a military only server. It has 35,000 young veterans on it that play video games with each other. Okay. That's the whole thing is just connecting people. 35,000 young vets and, yeah, look it up, Jeremy Regiment. Yeah, no, I want you to text it to me because I won't do it. Yeah. Okay. All right. We'll continue offline. But, what I'

m saying, you know, if you're looking for younger veterans in my area and you want to see them in a big group, there is a hockey group that will play hockey. It's like they get 60 veterans under like 50 together to play hockey. Anyone can come, older veterans can come, but these young vets want to be spending their time doing physical things, right, or doing video game. It's just different spaces and we have to learn to look for them because these people on regiment, you know, these fellow vets

they are chatting some of the testimonials or I was lonely. I didn't want to leave my house, but I found my community online with fellow vets and it stopped me from wanting to hurt myself. And that's, you know, that's repetitive. And then even for like me, just again, not trying to, Not trying to diverge terribly, but as a Latina woman, like, you know, community for me sometimes looks different like it's very hard for me to find you know I would love to have like you know other female Latina men

tors, it's not easy to find people to be in community with that aren't just based on the veteran experience. You know, I We for the 2 years that I did my Dwyer outreach, we did not have a Spanish language. Yeah, I'm one of the, 20 million US based Latinos that does not Latinos that does not speak Spanish. The other 40 million they do. So yeah, I'm part of that one third. But not for lack of trying. I'm just bad. Well, actually, it's funny you say that, because, I'd spoken with a number of parent

s of veterans and they they said I'm worried. Yes. They said that their child combat veteran whether it's Afghanistan or Iraq they say they sit in the basement they were enrolled in school but they have since withdrawn and they play you call a duty all day. So one of the things we did and I think I might have said this at 1 point, we had we're having a quarterly call of duty tournament One v one and we're giving out like a $500 gift card if you come in first place and this because we've got one

coming up March, the 20 s if anybody wants to follow us. The Adirondack peer to peer on Facebook. What we've done, is we've also instituted, like a little we section on the college campus. So Again, so what we're trying to do is break down any barrier. So if a veteran was like, I would have participated, but I would have had to bring my kids. Well, we've got a wee station setup so you can go bring your kids and there'll be a number of other kids over there doing, you know, weed sports or whateve

r they're going to do. And we're also going to have a section for older veterans who want to play board games. So, and we provide food. So we've we had 6 register for the first one which was a couple of weeks before Christmas. Very strong feedback. Those same 6 have registered for the one we're having in March. And we have a number of more registrants. So Yeah, we're, oh yeah, go ahead. Can I just? Sorry, someone was asking, Kayla was asking if it was only in New York. I don't know if she's talk

ing about you. I'm gonna post that regiment thing in the chat. I just did that link. I don't know if this is a good organization. I'm not sharing it because I've vetted it and I approve. I'm sharing it because it is something that's outside the box. And is showing a massive amount of veterans in a in a different state. At the very least, it can be a useful model that might be used for help people in the future. Yeah, exactly. So sometimes it helps to explore. So that, is there, Jeremy, you shoul

d drop your link for that. And then, Nell, can you drop the link to the listserv, the community listserv, cause Mary Joe just reached out to me and that's a great point too is that this is all about collaboration. Community building is about collaboration. And to Jeremy's point, like he's always inviting people. To come to these spaces and like different veterans will. Vibe and be called to different things. Horse therapy is like transformational life-saving for some veterans. Why do we always c

ome back to this? Yeah, my, yeah, I'm not a horse person. I'm terrified. They're like 2,000 pounds of straight muscle. That could kill me. That could kill me. So, you know, I would, what I'm saying is like, it doesn't have to work for you, it just has to work for the veteran. So horse therapy, art therapy, like classical therapy sitting and talking, right? Somatic stuff, words, words, word hasn't done it yet, but I'm waiting for him to talk about touching grass and being in green spaces because

that is that is integral to like people's mental health. Yeah. Hey. Yeah, it's a good. I mean, one of the questions I had was just that, like, what worked for you? What have you seen work for you? What what worked for you? What have you seen work for others? Just to raise that conversation for our attendees so they hear some of these like you know maybe more abstract methods and services so if they are working with a veteran they could make the proper recommendations. Well, I can't speak for 10,

but I think he and I are so proud of the Marines that are just doing such a good job right now. Don't you worry, I'll disappoint you in a moment. You're very grown up. In case those of you don't know some of the band Good. Somebody said, what if someone on the panel is saying, I'm just a dumb marine, blah, blah, blah, so you don't have. Hi! I don't have to say, Dom. So how it works if you're not, you know, military connected, the the army is the best. And then the Marines, and then there's the

other ones. So it's cool to kind of know that from a basic form. We don't even need to respond. We just. We don't even respond to you guys. But to get He gets any. We're so arrogant that we can sit here and not say anything and just know in our hearts that we're Hello, they. Yeah, be careful. I'm gonna I'm gonna start throwing around probe pretty quickly, okay? Whatever. Okay. Yeah. Focus. So, so probably one way to wrap up the VA. You didn't have a wrap up the VA conversation, but think of the

VA maybe if people might agree it's comprehensive. But formulaic and that it's a massive massive health system in my own experience with it has been. Awesome. You know, not everyone can say that. I can respect it, but it is extremely formal. And referencing what Melanie said about the Vietnam vets, a bunch of them came back in the seventys and like this is this is fucked up it's this terrible and there's a really bad time and they went to Congress. And created their own separate system called th

e VET centers. And the Vet Center is popped up in every single city in America and they were community based and mental health driven. So amazing to be part of that in some years back. Guess what happened? The VA got involved in it. They started taking it over and the whole thing became VA-ish, which is sort of a tragedy. That's another story. But if I, I think the VA is a good starting point, at least for most people. And it is deeply comprehensive. It's more medically driven in my experience a

nd a little less community-based but there's there's so much out there to connect to. Yes. But melanie preference grass so the the thing about I think most people, particularly veterans that have been in combat or that have gone through the training and certainly done the sort of military-ish aspect of it, you wind up in the woods, you're hanging out with a bunch of people that are for the most part looking out for each other and when you go you know face the enemy you really are there for each

other. And if you can bring veterans together in a way that is connective and outdoors, you almost always have really good outcomes. Almost always because you're bringing back kind of arguably the better aspects of the combat experience. And that's why I think the wounded worry model is really great. But honestly, since I've come home, I've just connected with a bunch of veterans and we just backpacking trips all the time. It's, particularly up in Jeremy's area, the Adirondacks is about the most

beautiful part of New York State, especially with the high rises in the subways that go through all the little mountains. I mean, the reality is it's completely empty up there. There's these huge spaces where you won't you can see stars, you don't you don't hear or see people. You know, and that's a special connectivity for a lot of vets if I could just leave that at that note. Yeah, so if I could piggyback on what Ward's saying. We're doing the best we can. To make connections with a number of

non VA resources. Simply because we feel that veterans are more apt to take part in a support group that's run by license clinicians that are not affiliated with the VA. And what I'm finding also because we have I have connections with other Dwyer programs. One of the things that we did here, we started an MST support group. Run by license clinicians that it's right it's local it's down the road I and it's geared towards women right now we're going to integrate the men at some point with a diff

erent group but that's just we just wanted to go with the The one that I think was the most urgent. So we we buy dinner for the ladies. Twice a month and the clinicians are saying now because I just had a debriefing with them last week we've done this for about 6 weeks. Maybe 2 months now. Anyway, they said that it's going extremely well. The ladies are asking to attend more frequently. They want to bring other veterans in that they know have suffered through this stuff. So, I heard that the Sar

atoga peer to peer had tried a VA run. Program and it was telehealth and I guess it went terribly. And I'm like, it makes sense because you really need to be in person to be able to read the body language. To recognize, hey, when it's time to pivot and via, you know, zoom, you know, there's, there's not much flexibility you have there and I guess it went terribly. So again, so for MST, we've got attachments to, equine therapy groups. Forest bathing, hunting excursions, this type of stuff. All we

're trying to surround the veteran community with opportunities to get out. Experience. Experience different. Different activities with other veterans that they're going to make these connections but it's going to you know sometimes the the The progress is very slow sometimes. So we have to be patient. Also, we're not necessarily going to see, Folks jumping at these opportunities, you have to be persistent, you have to be patient, the communities will grow over time. And if you know if you find

after you know a series of months maybe it works maybe it doesn't but you know the big thing is is building the trust amongst the the Okay. Can I, can I just, can I just jump in? I'm so sorry. Now can you pull Mickey in? Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Mickey, you're not, you didn't hear this but I said you were my role model so the fact that than ever. If you have a little bit of time after the panel, maybe you want to stick around just to answer some QA. I'm so sorry. I will step o

ut now. I'm so guys, I'm so excited. I read Mickey's book in college and it had a formative impact on me and She has been really personally inspiring to my journey as an advocate. So I just wanted to like invite her in. Thanks for joining, Melody. Hi. Hi, I'm so sorry. I woke up with a migraine at like 6 a. M. And took a new migraine medication. Should have slept for like 2 HI apparently slept for like 5 more. I had no idea that that was a possibility. Well, welcome to the conversation, Mickey,

and we're kinda, we jumped in. Talking about community building and resources and what's available and where the gaps are and we're kind of talking now about like services that have been effective that are maybe outside the box or things that We might not not normally think of. So that's where we're at but if you want to just jump in and quickly introduce yourself and tell everyone a little bit about yourself. That would be great. Hi, my name is Mickey Kendall. I am a veteran army, a regular arm

y. My book is called Hood Feminism. And I think I can put that in chat. Hold on. And it's ironic that this is the moment which I come into the conversation because technically my alternative therapy helped more than going to VA. I have a weird alternative theory therapy for myself so I am, I'm an MST. Person and I had PTSC and I did the therapy did all the things. But the thing that worked for me of all things was fire toilet. You can't. Think about anything else while you're playing with fire.

You can't have any other noise in your head. I know how this sounds. You said 2 6 on fire was white gas. You'd work your routine, you do whatever you're doing with the fans, whatever. It's the quietest moment in your brain. I know that there are people right now who are going wheat and know performers. Try flow arts. Just saying. I'm trying to convince people that we should get BA to sponsor this as well. For vets who are not afraid of fire because it could be really good for your brain. It's be

en amazing for me. I've never heard of someone say mental health trial by fire quite so literally. It's okay, listen. I know that this is like a, you know, formally structured panel. But they want you to understand that many of the things that I think we think of in therapy at VA are sitting down very still things. And in my experience, better interior voice sitting down and just being still. It's not the thing we really learned how to do as kids. It's why the military appealed to us in the firs

t place except for snipers. You all learn a different. Category in many ways. And so physical. Changes sometimes can really work. I heard someone earlier mentioned equine therapy. I think animals are great, but for some people. Animals are not necessarily a thing. Right? Some people can do not loud noises, but they really like the Sparkly Fire parts. You can also get light whips and things like that that have no fire involved. But they're still very, very physical things to take your body throug

h. Because I think a lot of the programming that VA does is sort of centered. 40 50 years ago on men. I'll put it that way gently. I used to work at the as an RVSR. Yes, don't. I just have a I have a quick question because I want your opinion on this would like everyone's opinion on this one Because I think the VA is a wonderful resource in 2 categories and singularly 2 categories. I'm sure they're probably better in other things, just not my personal experience. It's really good that they give

them the ability to gain access to tangible medical needs and benefits. And they have the ability to give them to financial needs and benefits in the form of like compensation and other things. But outside of those 2 things, I think the VA really needs to not stop but shouldn't be involved in because at the end of the day they are a government institution made to provide a particular service. They're not community driven because there's no cookie cutter way to do community. It's easier to provid

e cookie-cutter solutions to statistical problems. That are more just based around like liability and needs than actual social connection. And I feel like a big issue that a lot of us are having is the fact that the VA is trying to be holistic and they're not and that's fine. We have to stop trying to make the VA holistic because that's going to be like pulling teeth and it's easier to empower. State level or community driven programs, whether it's state or county. And I really feel like those t

hings can take the forefront of it. But I would also like to point out and I'm sure. Everyone's gonna have their own viewpoint on this one, not all community programs are made equal. Because when we look over at Jeremy and now he runs his program, he's like a talk show host because he brings in really great things and he goes, and then there's more. And like the list doesn't stop of all these really nice wonderful inclusive things. He's like, bring the family, bring the kids, bring your grandpa,

it'll all work out. And he thinks very forward on it all. See, I'm trying to figure out how to pull the Jedi mind trick on the VA to have them start supporting me as opposed to VA to have them start supporting me as opposed to because now they are making referrals to me which I think is a big win. Cause some of some of these folks I think their heart is in the right place or they're just trying to get promoted or whatever, but they're just extremely ineffective and perhaps do more harm than goo

d. Some of them belong like working at the DMV or something like that. It's you know, it's really really sad because they're just checking a box but Again, you know, kind of, you know, reinforcing what Dylan had said, you know, the community-based stuff, we're able to meet these folks face to face. And really get an idea of what's going on, you know, you know, the home visits are sometimes some of the worst. Because you know the face that someone puts on at an event. Is it doesn't necessarily re

flect what they're living in. And One of the connections I'm making, with the state is, folks that do that have grants for home repairs, especially for veterans. I've done a couple of home visits where like you know you don't want to betray how you're feeling on the inside because you don't want to insult anyone. But you're like, what the hell? How did it get to this? How are you living in this place should be condemned. So and you you find especially with some of our Vietnam veterans their will

ingness to just kind of suffer through stuff is very sad. So I think you know us being the community based stuff being on the ground. You know, just paying a visit to someone and that's why we've kind of opened up. We just, were approved to purchase 2 vehicles for the program. So we can kind of, yeah. Because the folks that ran it before I did didn't spend one dime from fiscal year 2022 and the state was getting ready to take the money back so we were like no please let us buy a couple of vehicl

es so we were like no please let us buy a couple of vehicles so now where there's gaps in transportation services for transporting veterans to medical appointments we jump on the opportunity to just do a home visit. Take them out to lunch, that type of stuff and kind of see where they're at. And it's not a snooping. It's us trying to help and I think they understand like, oh, hey, you know why? I know of a particular organization that, you know, I can help you fill out the brand paperwork and yo

u can get some money to install that ramp on your house. So you have an easier time getting in and out that type of stuff. Of course, of course. Jeremy, can I can I pause you for 1 s? That's absolutely amazing. And there's only one reason why I want to pause that. That's exactly the sort of community. That is the exact thing that we want. But I think that's the sort of community that we would say the VA should be bankrolling more community driven things and the federal should be bankrolling more

things for the state to help them deal with stuff. But as much as I just want to champion that to the high heavens, because I genuinely do. I've also seen the other end of the spectrum and I feel like until we deal with The worst parts. Don't. Of how community. Like organizations can abuse veterans. We cannot ask. The federal government to start picking up the check. And I'm sure you have feelings on this. Make your anyone else, please. Okay, so I was in a VSR. It was a veteran services rep doi

ng a compensation and pension for a while and I left BA because at a certain point I know what you, what you're saying, I feel like it's DMV, but I have to say that the culture internally for VA is toxic in other very exciting. Unsurprising ways. It was the worst. Only veterans are just like, and you will be abused in this way. Right. You will be abused. As an employee of VA also as well in many cases. The thing that I think is part of this is that we're not tying together. I saw someone say you

know, what about state mental health services and this is one of those things where this state you're in completely dictates whether or not there are mental health services. So we're gonna see some places have really great things for vets is high into really great state level benefit. I think we need to be thinking a little bit smaller and more about like say the county level. Because when you really start getting down to it, if you live, I'm gonna use Illinois as an example because I'm from Ch

icago. If you live in Illinois, we are one of the bigger states landmass wise. Almost everyone in the state of Illinois lives in Cook County of the surrounding campus. 3 fourths I think it is at this point of the Illinois population lives at the northern half of the state. And a lot of times people will talk about that in terms of voting patterns that But what about the rest of, you know, Illinois? N can land not vote land cannot provide good robust services. Right. And so, VA in Chicago has Jes

se Brown has access to tons of things at the county level. At the state level though the state is busy with all of those other counties, we have more than 100 in which there are no major cities, there's no major anything. But they have a population, 2,000 or 3,000 or whatever. And yes, those are rural counties, but you still got to provide services to people in those counties and many times they're veterans because Illinois is one of the states where if you join from here as a veteran, you get 4

years of college tuition free. A lot of that too. Okay. Maybe Mickey and Jeremy should join a, rural veterans panel talking about those specific issues. In the chat, in your after action, let us know if that's a thing. You guys are interested. But just kind of to kind of touch up on things like this. I have seen veterans in the veterans community can modify other veterans. And it's kind of worrying. And I'm sure this is something that anyone who's worked. In the community has probably seen on s

ome level where there are going to go, we're going to have a space where veterans meet up. And then they're gonna meet up there and they're gonna do nothing. Like they don't even bother throwing a pizza party or something. It's not community. It's a check in the box to say, we serve X demographic of veterans give us funding. And they are literally seeking to spend the least amount of money. And get the maximum amount of profit and that profitization. Of veterans and needs is ultimately problemat

ic because they're not seeking to solve problems they're seeking to say that we're here. To witness your problems and maybe let you talk about it, but really not do much. And even when you look at things like enquine therapy and some things, those are organizations that are doing a tangible, good thing. But many people don't have access to and the organizations that do give them access is great. But those organizations that are connecting them to that one service. Reaping the majority of the pro

fits of said service. Even though they are not the ones responsible for helping the veteran post. And I think we need a more proactive approach in finding and making better organizations that are better at being proactive and helping veterans in terms of filling gaps in service. Yeah, I think Dylan part of that issue is, and we're finding here, I think it's all about documentation. Making sure, cause I know folks can fudge numbers, but I invite just about every last politician in the my vicinity

to come and attend our events. And that don't, I don't want them to make a big deal of it, you know, because they want to shake hands and you know, do the politicians. Good dogs. But yeah, but the reality is if they show up and they see How effective we are at really helping the veteran community. And the improvement of their lives and that type of stuff then you say okay what is it we're doing right and you know to be honest it's about leadership you got to have the right people in the right p

lace. Doing the right things. A lot of folks will come out and say, well, yeah, I want to help veterans. But, you know, like, they all alluded to, it's very lucrative for some folks and if your heart's not in the right place, and if your heart's not in the right place, that's why I'm such a proponent of the peer aspect of it. As a matter of fact, Ward and I had talked at 1 point, because I just spoke with, the local state, senator up here and I said, I think that the New York state should consid

er bringing in a grant program for veterans who want to study social work. We want to go into counseling. Because the GI bill will get you so far however you know when those funds run out there's folks that they genuinely veterans want to help but they don't have the funds to go on and get. Get the right certifications and degrees. So they thought it was a great idea. We'll see if it comes to fruition. But, I think it's a worthwhile study and if we keep adequate data. If we, you know, put out on

our social media outlets videos, you know, obviously you have to ask for permission in that type of jazz, but if we demonstrate like, hey, this not only this a good time. Use those, the social media outlets to attract more veterans, but we get the message out to the people that should be listening that are paying attention, how effective you can be if it's run properly. I think one of the barriers to creating a good organization is for a lot of people. How do you start, right? How do you And yo

u can know social workers, you can be able to pull people in together. But then. Va's paperwork. Let's say this, like I said, it's a former VA employee. It's like jumping through hoops backwards. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't go to VA for your benefits. I absolutely think every veteran should immediately individually go. But in terms of becoming a partner organization, I know this is a conversation I've had with. It is not, it may be our VA. It is not easy if you were not already a partn

er organization to start a productive partner organization, even if all you want to do is direct carrying services. You have a lot of people, in Charlotte are working with veterans who have been incarcerated. Who are essentially running headfirst at a wall. Trying to get VA to step in, because VA does not necessarily think that they have any duty of care. And I get it, dishonestable discharge happened, all of these things happen. But a lot of times that person was a different person before they

served. And their experiences are why we are where we are now. And so we're trying to get that. Connection. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure we could all speak to this. The dishonourable discharge. I've run into a number of veterans when they explain to this, the dishonourable discharge, I've run into a number of veterans when they explained the circumstances as to why they were bad conduct or OTH or whatever. Their command hung them out to drive. You know, they come back from Iraq. And, you know, had seen

things and done things and they weren't given the right type of care and literally thrown to the wolves when they got back and then, you know, they had post-traumatic stress disorder that wasn't diagnosed, they had traumatic brain injury that wasn't diagnosed and then they wind up getting arrested by civilian law enforcement and the command hangs them out to dry. So not only they, you know, they wind up going to jail. They come back, go to the brick, and you know, then they're a broken person an

d then you know they've got this discharge that's inhibiting them from getting a quality job being accepted to good education programs. So these are the types of things that when we identify them, like, you know, we might wanna work on getting that rate of discharge changed, gather enough evidence and then put forward like an opportunity for them to at least get health care and mental health services through the VA, even if DOD might not reconsider the discharge. I think that's a really like won

derful and poignant like way of putting it and that's a very great way of handling things. And I would like to point out that this brings up a thing about filling those gaps in service and ironically, you know, there are things that do sort of fill those gaps in service naturally between the attempting to get discharge upgrades. And like the Hofstra law clinic as well as like state, level, agencies and things like that who try and push for discharge upgrades and help people work through their pr

oblems and obtain their benefits even with OTH and other things. And there's a term I call or a term that it's called called a cottage industry. And that's when there is a gap in some form of service. A smaller niche service gets born within it. I believe Ward specifically falls into that category of realizing that there's a particular gap and so he created an industry in which serves the community trying to get in between that gap. It's the cardottage, she's industry, and thank you. Can I segue

into something that might be a great avenue into health? If that's okay, solution focus therapist for many years looking at strengths and resiliency is rather than you know the deficit model as a traditional mode and I was shocked to find out there's an incredible amount of resources and funding for veterans to get into businesses. And I don't know much about it being an entrepreneur, but there's. The training assets honestly through the SBA. That are funded partly through the BA as well as loa

ns that you can get, called the Petri loans also through such systems. And, and if you know, like, a huge amount, 9% of, of entrepreneurs in America are veterans. A huge number of companies were started by veterans like Nike Enterprise. Godaddy, Fedex, these are all veterans that started them kind of came out of combat and said there's something we could do a little bit better. For example, you know, World War 2 pilot said, you could actually just rent cars to people right at airports where they

could then drive around and go use them and then leave them back at the airport. And that idea created was created by a veteran. Same thing with, you know, our concept of mobile counseling. It's thrown, it's all over New York State now, but it was created by a veteran 9 years ago just as an innovative way to connect people. To mental health services. So I earlier, Tim was saying one of the great resiliencies to mental health. Challenges is finances. And generally speaking, in my opinion as a th

erapist, if Somebody's really busy doing something productive, meaningful, and a great interest to them. They're not dealing with mental health concern. They're not generally struggling the way someone who is maybe bored. Or marginalized or ostracuse. When you're doing something meaningful, you're generally feeling, you know, pretty terrific and your family benefits and you benefit and you're kind of your future benefits and that's the outcomes. So the entrepreneur, a program, an approach is muc

h more than just, you know, something you could do if it interests you. I would steer a lot of veterans that you know you might be working with clinicians toward that potential and say you got a dream of a business or an idea of something there's actually all these resources that will help you not just achieve it, but support it, fund it, train on it, and support it later on when it needs to grow. On that note. So in question and curiosity of the funds, just literally jump off that. Is I feel li

ke we've talked a lot about like different apps of approach. We focused a lot on community. And I think that's because community is a gigantic part of this. But let's talk about things that veterans need veterans need, besides community. They need security. They need shelter. They need means. And a thing that I find shocking is that so many of the veterans in our community lack these things. And there's, I don't want to say an easy way, but there was an avenue for them to obtain this. And the cr

azy thing is not many of them know how to navigate it. Either you're in an older generation that doesn't know how to handle apps or particular following ups of paperwork and things like that. Genuinely there are ways cottage industry and otherwise that can handle this. And this is a huge part of it is where we just need someone to help a veteran say, what are your problems? Like what did the military like cause and you could help them either get income or you can help them get VA disability. And

someone who's let's say homeless in the worst possible situation. If I can get them 50% service connected, they receive $1,054 a month. That is $1,054 a month they didn't have and they know they're gonna get $1,054 a month from that point there on that is a huge difference in my opinion and what can affect their quality of life and their trajectory because now yes it's desperate but now you have the least something in form of security that you can rely on and I really think we as veteran peers

and people who wish to seek and help veterans. Need to focus on what is actually going to give them the sense of security. Because I feel like it is so difficult to focus on helping yourself when you are in crisis. And there is emotional crisis, there is mental crisis, but then there is actual like financial crisis that can stare that can go into multiple. Things. I As I've said before, I think everyone should always as the first thing they do when they get it they get back the day one Start of

the day is going to do online to do all of your applying for VA getting your compensation and physical compensation, physical physical setup getting if you are in one of the states, their state funds for school, get those state funds so you can go to school. If it's Voke rehab you have to go through and those are some hoops but you can go through folk rehab too but getting everything together day one week one whatever yes financially though. The backlog inside BA and making decisions on those ra

tes and the rest of it means I always tell people, yes, you should apply. And then the second thing you should do is start looking for a job. And I know that it's a lack to say, but it can take as long as 2 years. In terms of backlog for that paperwork to be processed. Every time the law changes in Congress or, you know, another lawsuit is one, this is not knocking the lawsuits, by your lawsuits. Standards change, new training rotates in. Quiet was has kept the actual process for compensation an

d pension doesn't actually make any sense. Across time, right? And so that paperwork. Backlog can sometimes get very high depending upon which VS, which VA you are going through. The system. May have improved by now, but last time. I was involved. It was a lot of hurricanes. You're in the military, you remember that feeling, it's not changing at VA. Yep. You know, and Dylan and Mickey, I think we need to make sure that we're telling our veterans this because many of them put all their eggs into

that basket. That it's going to solve all their issues. And they become so anxious. It's almost like. Buying a lottery ticket and expecting to win but not getting the results for 9 10 months and So they call you and they're like, well, I haven't heard anything back yet. And you're like, yes. It's going to take some time. We have to do some things while we're waiting. We have to, we can't just sit back because what if the decision comes back and you were expecting 100% and you get 30% you know in

the meantime these folks are you know going hungry or you know bills are getting paid so part of that that we've kind of the approach we've taken is getting veterans to understand. What services and what opportunities do they have access to in the meantime? Okay, can we get them hooked up with a trade school or, you know, job placement? You know, the other part too is I think a number of veterans don't really have a A solid grasp on who they are. 6 to 10 months for initial claims. If you add an

appeal onto that at least another 9 months and if you're trying to go before veteran court judge which is the most appreciative thing it takes about 2 years on top of whatever your initial client. I'm working with one of Marine veteran right now as a matter of fact. Who considers himself to be quite an intellectual and wants to go into counseling and all this stuff but in we're having a hard time because he's got diarrhea of the mouth and he says like the worst things at the worst time in front

of a whole lot of people. And he says like the worst things at the worst time in front of a lot of people. And I'm like, you know, you gotta understand that you auditioning for a job no matter where you're at you know in what's considered a safe space and people listening to the way you speak and I'm like to turn a lot of potential employers off so you know they have to kind of be retrained in society so you know that's those are 2 things that go hand in hand yes there's a potential for a great

outcome with your VA claim, but it's not going to happen overnight. You might not necessarily get what you want to hear. It might have to be appealed, which is you're talking about almost a 2 year process now at that point. And in the meantime, you have to have gainful employment. We have to find whether it's a course of study or a meaningful career. That's going to give them a sense of satisfaction and and understand where they're going to be a good fit and it's going to, you know, be very rew

arding for them. And one of the things I want to add here, I think there's a question for me in the chat and I can't answer it. But can I just drop my email in the chat? Can someone do that? Okay. But I think one of the things I wanna add here is. The way in which we are currently approaching it. Right. And I'm one of the veterans where I got out great networks. I was able to find work. I started temping almost immediately, that kind of thing. And obviously now this is not a concern. Is that we

are not really thinking about the fact that many veterans are going in as eighteen-year-old kids who have never had any other job. They don't have any of the job skills, those of us who are either working in community with them or who have gone forth to do other things have. And we are looking at them and saying, okay, now you guys figure how land on your feet. And they may not be ready for the job that they want, they may in fact end up having to do retail or temping or whatever till they acqui

re those skills. And you know being honest and upfront about that yes You have been in the military, you have done XYZ, and now this is a temporary job where you learned how to navigate in the civilian world. I'm not necessarily saying they have to go work. McDonald's or whatever, but they're gonna need to get a job doing some very basic things at first until they acquire some life scales. 100%. They've never been for an apartment. Many of them are quite shocked when they find out what rent is b

ecause they lived on post the entire time they were in. I have a friend whose, son was a Marine. Got out all of that and his first big shock was moving back to the town therefore they live in and when he left rent was let's say $480 for 2 bedroom. Well, the town has had a boom. Town has grown up much much bigger than it used to be. Right now it's about $1,200 a month for 2 bedroom. And he kind of had that same thought. He was counting on somebody else. Right, to help him navigate everything and

she's calling me and I'm explaining I'm working with him. But it's some point I kind of had to say because we had lots of jobs we didn't think we should have to take. You can apply, but you may not get. The amount you expect to get and getting that 70% or 80% someone told you you were guaranteed to get at some point. That's not at all true. And when they are coming out at 25, because in many ways being in the military suspends maturation. Yes, you learn how to do a lot of things. But life skills

network. In the civilian world and even frankly in the military world, they don't have to learn how to do those things. Right, someone tells them what to do. They tell them where they can live. They get a list or someone in housing helps them take care of those things. And I think we're expecting them to come out the same way we would expect a college grad to come out and also this is as a parent of a now college grad. Got to tell you college is also not necessarily teaching every life scale be

cause My oldest is 24. And we're having to kind of parent. An adult and in many ways I think what's happened with a lot of young veterans is that they were not being parented for a host of reasons. They joined the military. A sergeant tells them what to do or cat tells them what to do. They get out and now they have to know what to do. And when we say go to VA. VA is gonna take their paperwork, but VA cannot provide everything. I know that community is a big thing, but I also think frankly our c

ommunity partnerships book we have, etc, needs to be willing to honestly say, hey, listen. I know they told you that with these skills from the military. You'd be able to do XYZ. Now let's talk about the actual criteria to do those jobs in the civilian world that the federal government never gave you. And how you can acquire them and how we can establish something, right? It's a transition. And I think a transitional program. This is sort of my pet. Potential future project is a transitional pro

gram for veterans getting out. To help them find housing and other things because I am in a high cost of living area. So if they get out in Chicago and when they left. They could work at their friends garage or wherever and still afford a rent they can no longer do that. Even if they get out and they do have a job to go back to they cannot afford the major cities they're from. That'd be a check if they get one, it will help. But you've got a lot of events in New York City, LA, etc. It does that

matter what they did in the military. It does not matter if they go to the bachelor's degree. There are people with master's degrees who cannot afford these states. And one of the things I want to do. In between writing books and other things is create kind of a gap program. So that we can have a more realistic conversation about expectations because I'm not sure what's happening on the other end, but someone is telling them that they will get out and everything will be OK. Hey, they will apply

to VA and they think that check starts immediately. There's no BAH in real life is there, Becky. Not, not at all. No. For those, don't know the ridiculous acronyms in the military. It's basic allowance for housing and it's a supplement you get when you're active. So. Oh, Jeremy. Good. No, no, kinda, oh, I'm sorry to piggyback on what. You know, I'm seeing actually the transition for some folks after retiring, you know, 2022 years. They expect a certain amount of respect. They understand the high

level command decisions that they were making when they were in the service. And when they get out and they give their resume, now that's one thing that we've really taken initiative on making sure we adapt their resume to a civilian workplace. However, you know, some of these folks are not are not jumping at the you know the 22 year master sergeant in the Marine Corps and these guys are getting very frustrated. And just to really I'm just affirming what Mickey said, you know, you might have to

start out at a job that Not necessarily beneath them, but it's like a starter job, you know, and they're in a better position than many folks because you know if they've done a better position than many folks because you know if they've done 2022 years they've got a better position than many folks because you know if they've done 20 22 years they've got a retirement so they're not necessarily having to to starve as much but they're having to understand that, you know, it's going to be a transit

ion for them. Some employers, I think, are going to be a little bit reluctant to hire military because there's that stigma that exists for folks are like, oh, well, are they gonna, you know, do something wild and crazy while they're on the workplace. They don't necessarily understand. So you kind of have not starting from, you know, Not starting from 0, but maybe taking lower level management at a lows or something like that. There's plenty of organizations that say, yes, we will hire veterans.

However, you're gonna have to work your way up the ladder and for for some veterans that's a that's a tough pill to swallow. I have a question about that, Jeremy, if you don't mind, only because I've talked to people. In certain like financial Jobs that are higher end and things like that. And I talked to them about just like, you know, like master sergeants and very high in level people. I ask them, it's like, are they always sure wins? Like how does work? And a lot of them actually are worried

primarily because they are it's like they were talking about someone who's had a lot of power and authority for a significant amount of time. Within a very specific structure. And that doesn't really translate well into civilian work all the time. And they're like, and so we're not really sure what we're getting if they've directly gotten out and it's difficult to assume how they're going to do things because if they're going to try and run it like they ran things in the military, that can be v

ery catastrophic depending on where it is. And may not jail well with just standard civilians. And some people transition really well. They're understanding that these people are not soldiers or veterans, so they're not going to be used to certain structures or capacities and things like that. And they transfer really well. Other ones don't and so people are really hot and cold so I think having that introduction program that you and Mickey were talking about in order to like prove it's like I a

m socialized. I do have a concept of understanding really does help kind of pad their resume into being able to push faster into higher level things because you've at least shown that yourself to be sociable. Sure, because I think a lot of these, civilian employers also understand. I mean, you, I think when you talk with folks out in the workforce, they're very frustrated with these younger employees. You can't treat them. The way some of us were a little older, especially being having been in t

he military. You can't treat them the same way. So if they're like, oh man, I'm gonna hire this, 22 year Marine. Is he gonna blow up my workforce? Am I gonna have, you know, 40% of my, you know, workforce? Quitting the day after he takes control. You know, so for them it's it's a risk, you know, sure they're gonna have someone who shows up 30 min early to work and never calls and sick, but are they going to alienate a significant portion of my workforce? So for a lot of civilians who don't neces

sarily understand military personnel can't look and understand the the level of expertise on a military resume. There's probably some apprehension on their part. So that's where we, you know, again, I'm gonna, you know, reiterate what Mickey said. I'm like, hey, you might have to take a job that you might feel a bit beneath you but if you do what you're supposed to do you're gonna climb the ranks fast and you're gonna get a quick recommendation. And then all of a sudden, you're able to add that

to your resume. Oh man, I only worked for them for a year, but I got promoted twice and they're giving me an exceptional, you know, recommendation for my next job that's very powerful because you're not that it augments what you've already got built with your military resume. Anissa, you were going to say something earlier. Yeah, thanks Vicky. So we only have a few minutes left and. A few questions, and about like actual resources that you would recommend being experts in in this topic and in th

is field. Are there any that come to mind that you would recommend our attendees look into in supporting veterans and or their families? Okay. So one of the things I always recommend people do, and this is actually even directly from VA, a lot of people know about compensation and pension and then they know. About getting medical care. VA has a lot of grants and in some cases loan types for renovation for your home. And one of the things I've noticed for a lot of veterans families is that especi

ally when you have someone whether they are Vietnam that or even later write my era Bosnia if they struggle with things like hoarding things like that. You need professional help. And that VA is not always going to be the place where you can get the help directly at VA, but you can definitely go to VA in terms of helping you find a partner organization or. Community care so that they can be getting this like a lot help that you need while you're getting that home improvement grant to kind of get

your veteran or your veterans family back to a place where the housing is livable since we talked about that earlier. I think a lot of people, only know those 2 programs and don't know those other funds exist. You should also check at the state level because depending upon your say, sometimes your state has a lot of funds. For veterans that for a host of reasons they don't advertise well. I know, Illinois is one of those states where I feel really great and lucky to be from here, but also as I

was going through my own going to school process and the rest of it, it was like playing. A treasure hunt game? I only have to describe it to figure out what benefits I was actually entitled to at the state level separate from the federal. So that was gonna be the first 2 things. And then, and I. And I can't believe saying this, but check with your county or your city. One of the things about finding a job, especially with that veterans preference, lots of people know to go the federal round. Bu

t your county and your city may be more interested in depending upon your skills in the military. You still qualify for the for the vet preference. But they may be a little bit more understanding. You have a higher likelihood. I work for the county, Champagne County, only at 1 point. Was almost off-ederates. Because they had gone to college here and one of the guys in HR was a vet. So that was what he really did. He hired vets regardless of your MOS and whatever. He was trying to find a way to s

lot you in the city services. But almost nobody thinks apply at the municipal level. Everyone says, oh, I have, I guess I can try and get a federal job. A. Or Department of Labor or whatever. There's a lot of competition for those jobs. There's not a lot of competition as your state and federal state municipal level for civil service jobs in the same way. Can I also just I'm so sorry this is an important resource. Can I also just add on to what make you saying in New York State there's a section

55 C. Form, which is like, it's a special, yes, okay, someone saying they see why Mickey is my role model. I'm glad that you put that in there. It's so self evident, I know. But the 55 C form is actually a New York State form that will exempt a veteran fills it out with their disability status. It will exempt them from taking a civil service exam. So they're a special veteran oriented, 55 C positions that a veteran can slot right into a state benefit state salary. Without taking that civil serv

ice exam, which can be very anxiety inducing for a lot of people. So, 55 CI think is the form. It's for New York State and just again for if anyone's interested at like state or lower level jobs like Miki said. Wait, there's a question in the chat about why none of us have thought for and running for office. I just want to say if somebody who has been asked that question before, the smiling, pleasant persona you see here in front of you, she is great. Until someone decides to get in my face and

yell And then she exits the building. And I have watched. Some of our politicians and their political candidates behaviors. I lack the capacity. To pretend someone is not stupid. I will absolutely give it away in my face and my answer in a debate. That I think they are craving sacked crap. And I especially hold those feelings for many of the Republicans. I know someone's gonna need madam saying this who stand up and say they love the military and love that because I can see their voting records.

It's a lived experience panel. Our panelists are allowed to share whatever they want. It's not a reflection of this funny, so. Yeah. Also as terrible as this sounds we're just gonna be very honest given what politically has been allowed to go on and what people have been absolutely allowed to say and do. Yeah. You know what? Go for it, Mickey. What are they gonna do at this point? What hasn't already been done? Yeah. You guys are giving me a hard attack, stop. I want every I want everyone in th

is one, to love me and if you let this continue I'm gonna I'm gonna go cry stop. No pride, don't cry. I actually, listen, it's not a party affiliation thing. There are also other parties. I have these same strong feelings about I really have very strong opinions that we love veterans until they need something. Like to start a political party. We love military service. Great. They love the idea of events. They don't live the reality. Well. Yes. It's not even party specific. It's just the one toda

y in my state. A lot of lot of veterans are really pragmatic. I'd like to start a political party just called the moderates. It's not divisive, it's just solve some problems, work. Work the situation along. Less explosivity, less picking sides and just, you know, be down to earth. I don't know if that would take off. No, I'm, you know, I'm reclaiming everyone. No, I, okay, Phil, I love you. Guys, I do, I'm really sorry. I know I shouldn't be the one saying this, but we should probably focus back

on trying to give resources. Yeah, but I'm reclaiming everyone's time. Whoever the commenter, whoever the audience member was that asked that, you are amazing and you just like cause me a lot of stress but I'm a stoic and I'm an absurdist so I think that's funny. So thank you. That's great. We're going to move on. Anissa reclaim, reclaim the time. So 5 min left, resources that you would recommend for families or veterans. In the community of the VA any recommendations that you would give. I wou

ld say the best centers. The vet centers are still pretty good. If you just Google, every city still has one and they're community driven, group based, very mental health built as a therapist. I've sent people to bed centers and they've usually had good experiences. I would agree with that. VSOs are still a resource. I would absolutely champion just because it's someplace to start and work from. If I had to go for something a bit more specific, Samantha Greer. Works with the Hofstra Legal Clinic

. Super good, she handles MST, trauma-informed care, discharge upgrades, she's specific with who she helps, but genuinely just like that sort of focused help is a really good resource to tap into. There are certain agencies like, like one I work for, I work for Fusco Brandstein and Rata, they handle aiding with discharge upgrades they handle initial claims and appeals. Everything with initials and just legal advice in generals per bono. Another thing I think people, I've seen to people mentionin

g hood bash and absolutely look in the hut bash and county options for your housing. But another thing I think people will probably want to consider doing. Is literally temping going and signing up with temp agencies when you are struggling with finding work. They are very good hoping you turn that military. Resume into something that was useful in the outside world if you're having a hard time getting in with spoke rehab or anything else. And if nothing else, if you cannot find a city stable jo

b yet, you can absolutely find something that will keep the lights on and the bills paid and help you build up a better civilian resume along the way. I was gonna say the post office for jobs has been a pretty good resource for veterans throughout American history. The last 60 years and there's also U.S.A. jobs which tend to have some advantages for bets. Tim, Jeremy, did you guys, oh, Word, okay, okay, So later on in the year, Naswanis is going to have 4 clinicians. This one is going to host 2

separate panels as follow on panels that have this separate topic of education and veterans and jobs and veterans because as we talked about here, so much of supporting veterans is helping them survive. Pay their bills and literally have, you know, be housed. So those 2 topics will be at future upcoming panels. Oh, and one more thing, if you just go to the small business administration and type in veterans, it brings up a whole page both about veteran owned businesses and about loan specific to

veterans who are looking to start a job. Or start a company rather sort of business. Sorry. No, the brain is working. But it has training programs, funding, all kinds of things in one place. I'm just going to say that. As someone who lives in Massachusetts and works in Connecticut. And also have been an educator for the past. 7 years. This is a little bit outside my will house where this conversation went. Within the last hour compared to. The areas I thought it would go in and that's not to say

. I think that's a great conversation, really important conversation that's been happening. It's just kind of you know, not where I'm at. Sorry, I tend to focus in very much and take over a lot of space. On what will work in the moment because a lot of times we tend to talk about the future. And a lot of my work is around making sure people are capable of getting to the future. Excellent. Okay, so. And you said you wanna close this out? Yes. Ward and you, you guys, be cut, making you came a litt

le late so if you feel compelled if you feel interested you are welcome to wait until 140 we're gonna have part there's 1.3,001.300 participants now those who want to stay will be able to stay ward has a special PSA and then Mickey if you wanna just reclaim some of your time. Sorry, I'm sorry. No, it's fine. I just wanted to thank the panelists for their time today. The conversation did go in a few different directions. Some of it were unexpected. So thank you for your patience and hanging in th

ere and really just navigating through i think that speaks very highly to the processes in supporting veterans and how they are just nonlinear and sometimes unexpected. So It's a great metaphor to end the conference with, I think, but the panelists throughout the past 2 days have been absolutely incredible. Melanie, you've kept us organized and now thank you for that. But yes, they just appreciate the attendees for their participation and the panelists for their openness and their insight and sh

aring their experiences with us. Okay, so I promised everyone Brent would sing. Now can you find Brent Russell in the, in the people and elevate him to a panelist? Also guys, Brent, he's a little nervous. He's never sung this song before so can you put some like love for him in the comments because he's gonna be great but I know he's a little bit. Nervous, yeah. You know. It's gonna, they're gonna flow the comments. Oh, look at this. They don't flood the comments. Look at the comments. Like ever

yone's so exciting. I was so excited for you to sing. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I'm good. I'm actually Do you, do you need any, do you have your water? You have everything? And then after Brent sings, now we'll have some wrap up comments. About the CEs, just some reiterating and then, okay, should we, yeah, we're gonna do this first. That way you guys can not hear the important information. If I was a bad person, I would ask them to do this after the wrap up comments, but we're It's a Saturday and y

ou guys have families. Yeah, so I just wanna personally thank everyone, for. Attending this conference. You make our mission possible. I hope that it was all that you hoped for and and and and even more and we look forward to continuing to do this work. So I saw, saw this song actually I heard this song one of my favorite singers were did a cover on it and I heard it and I thought it was pretty fitting. To sing for you so it kinda in my mind reflects the relationship between I'm a therapist, a c

linician, and they're patient. And in my head, I think Sitting across from my clinician because I'm in therapy myself and when I come into the office, it's a safe space. And I and I receive from that space so Alright, with all that being said. Everybody needs inspiration. Everybody needs a song. Beautiful mellow day 4 in the nights alone Cause there is no guarantee. This life is in the World is falling apart and there's no Light to break off the dark That's when I Hi, When the wings are flooding

the shore end I can Find my way home anymore That's when When I look at you, I see forgiveness. I see that true. You love me for who I Like the stars hold the moon The right there where they blow all I know I'm not alone in my World is falling forward and is known Lights break up the dark, that's when lying. Hey. I look at you You appear Just like a dream to me Just like Glyscope colors that cover me you all I need your every breath that I believe Don't you know? You beautiful You're beautiful.

Yeah. And that's it. Yeah, so like I said when I when I think about the relationship. Thank you very much between a therapist and a patient. I think of it as a place where an individual can come in and be completely and totally honest. Where there is. Transparency transparency and trust in the room. In a place where there are no hidden agendas. No negative arterial motives, but a place where I can be myself a place where I could seek. Forgiveness from myself, a place. Where I can. Seeking find

love and support. And, we thank you all for being that for the population that we serve. It's really silly. That you were ever nervous. That was like. That sounded like you had done it a million times before. Have you have you did you see the comments going when you were singing? Thank you. Good night. No, no, my eyes are closed. You, you have about a thousand comments in there just. Praising how wonderful you are. Awesome, thank you. Nell, do you wanna chat a little bit about the Cs just to cla

rify some of that for? For everyone else they as they head off or stay for the optional Yeah, so. So in just a second, I'm gonna drop the evaluation like in the chat. And it will be emailed to you and Hi there has already been email to you or shortly will be emailed to you. You'll need to complete this evaluation by Wednesday. The thirteenth. And then a week after that, so March by March twentieth, you will get their certificate emailed to you. Handouts with resources. From sort of compiled from

our panelists and then also from our Q&A will be often included in that email with your certificate. Also, the recording of this conference and each of these panels will be on our YouTube page. As well, so definitely keep an eye out for that as well. So now I think, You know, if you need to go, you're welcome to head out. I think that there are, you know, some folks did want to kind of hang and Right, so Ward has a PSA that he wants to share. He wants to discuss something a little bit more in d

epth. And then, we just want to give Mickey Kendall back some of her time since she is calling all the way in from Chicago to support our New York Bets community. So if you guys want to stick around for that, please do. Can we elevate Ward and Mickey? Is that possible? Yep. That's fine. Let me just refer to Mickey. It was just a couple of stories that, therapists could use in practice. If they wanted to, that you could just say a friend told you or something, but that's okay. Push it over to Mic

key. She's the, I think she's a little more of a star right now and I defer to her time. I mean, I was just willing to stick around in case people had questions. Wanted to keep the discussion going for a few more minutes. I am one of those weird vet success stories and I know for some people it's kind of like, well, how did you get into publishing? How did you do this? How did you do that? How you bridge the gap between getting out and chasing your dreams kind of thing. But if People would rathe

r do anything else. I am totally fine. Yeah, if you have questions. For Make your award or anyone to screen. Cause this is all optional. Are we