[Music] welcome to conversation with the geographer I'm Mike Deo professor of geography at Grand Rapids Community College and today we're fortunate to have Fernando Bosco who is Professor of geography at San Diego State University Fernando thank you so much for joining us today thank you very much for having me it's blessure I I'm I'm really happy you're able to come and uh and take part in this series as I have discussed with others who have uh who have been interviewed or shared their stories
I'll ask you um if you could reflect upon your life maybe your childhood maybe schooling and in in in early years if you could if you could recall how you developed an interest in pursu in geography for sure sure well um uh in case you or other viewers don't know this I grew up in Argentina um Argentina has always had a strong tradition of uh Geographic education so even in Elementary School uh we are introduced to geography and like many others uh traveling uh with my family uh as a child child
uh my parents really like to travel across the country and even across borders to oai and Brazil and so from early on I was fascinated by the road by going to new places meeting people and so it was kind of a fascination with that and then road maps and atlases uh and this adventure of like finding places on the map and imagining what they would be like and so as you know as I got older uh the my interest in the in geography which I didn't think about it as an academic discipline early on but t
hen in high school uh I had a really strong geography uh Professor for two years and that really got me more interested and then I decided to uh start University in Argentina and I did didn't think about geography as my career at the time but I thought tourism would be and uh you know tourism and Recreation would be a good outlet and of course that had a lot of geography in it uh and so I kept reading more and more and then I had the opportunity to come to the United States as an exchange studen
t for six months in theory uh and uh I did I was uh 20 years old um I ended up going to Wittenberg University in oh in Ohio Ohio I picked the university out of an atlas looking at a map I thought Ohio sounded very exotic uh and fooled you huh I all I have heard about Ohio uh as a child was watching all the American TV shows with my grandmother I think it was Daniel boom and the fur trade and the river and the paddle boats so I was very excited to get to Ohio and then I got there and uh I had thi
s idea of what the US was going to be like and then there were cows and corn and I realized that I didn't know much about the US and the landscape looked a lot like the landscape AP of the pomas in Argentina M and so I got even more interested and I had to enrolling classes and the first class I took was urban geography and I chose it because I love cities and I had a professor Olga mov who was married to another geographer who at the time taught at Ohio State Yuri mov both of them were immigran
ts from the former Soviet Union they had been peace activists they had moved to the US um early on when uh when they could and because of that class urban geography uh it it it totally changed my my my Outlook on what I wanted to do and I decided that's it I'm going to change my Majors uh to geography and I did I ended up staying in the US I never went back I got uh very interested in geography I loved Wittenberg I loved the professors I loved Ohio and I found a way to stay and uh that was the b
eginning of kind of my transition from you know childhood to the American version of me uh early on so from vitberg where did you go from there um thanks to the strong mentoring of Professor mov she encouraged me to think about graduate school and I did and I didn't go too far I was accepted into the Ohio State University and started the master's program there in uh 1996 um and I found a wonderful Department uh wonderful uh institution with a very strong Geographic tradition and that's when I re
ally really got into you know academic geography um and um my mentor and advisor there uh was Professor Nancy etlinger who still teaches at uh Ohio State University of geography and then I had the pleasure of meeting some other fantastic mentors uh uh people like Kevin Cox who is now retired uh and uh um and many others mapo Quan who was an early you know influence in uh like critical GIS at the time uh uh Nancy edlinger my adviser was an economic geographer but had a strong uh feminist geograph
y orientation so uh that also influenced my my thinking Uh Kevin Cox and Eugene mccan who is now uh uh in Canada um who was also there um anyways a number of people and so I did my masters uh which was more along the lines of economic geography looking at comparative patterns of development between Argentina and Taiwan and governance and industrialization and then I decided to stay uh to pursue my P PhD and um for that I completely changed directions I wanted to go back to do research in Argenti
na to understand a little bit more of the country I had left and from an academic and Geographic perspective so I did a dissertation that examined the geographic and spatial dimensions of the activities of Human Rights activists during the last dictatorship and after that and I worked specifically with mothers of people who have been disappeared by the dictatorship during the 70s um and to me that was uh something that I wanted to learn more uh from for my own background uh at the time when that
was happening in Argentina I was a child and so um what I remember of the dictatorship are you know things that my parents would tell me to be careful about to not say certain things and so I I I wanted to go back and I wanted to do research on that and so I was able to do that and so from there kind of came out my dissertation and many of the Publications that uh uh I was known for uh in the early 2000s this is very interesting in a sense that the discipline of geography did not really include
much much study many studies in social justice that really didn't come until uh several years later I mean certainly you know moral at Washington addressed these matters and and later though when Vicky lawon discussed this there was I would argue a paradigm shift that embraced social justice in the practice of geography yes no I agree with you I I I I think I was one of the early Scholars to look at like activism and social movements and social justice from a geographic perspective um at Ohio S
tate I had the um the great opportunity to take sociology seminars with uh an important sociology is Bera Taylor who had looked at um you know uh you know the sociological dimensions of mobilization and she was a great influence on me uh and I wanted to bring that to geography and to be honest with you there weren't that many people uh working on that uh and in particular in the context of Latin America uh and so I did I was I work really hard I did get a National Science Foundation dissertation
uh Improvement Grant which allowed me to be in Argentina for an extended period of time but I have to tell you it was a really uh it took a while and even doing an an IRB uh you know talking about human rights activists in Argentina and the dictatorship that was very difficult um for both ethical considerations but also uh there was some resistance in terms of whether that was really a geographic topic and so but we persevere uh and I you know and the outcome was great that's that's wonderful l
et's let's talk a little bit more about your research as you as you went on so from Ohio State where did you go from Ohio State I finished my dissertation in August 2002 and I moved to San Diego uh in August 2002 I not many cows in corn fields there very different uh I was lucky to have interview at San Diego State uh in uh December 2001 I was still ABD but um you know I convinced them that I was going to finish and I did of course uh and so I I drove my old Nissan Sentra all the way from Columb
us Ohio to San Diego State and just within two weeks of Defending my dissertation I was an assistant professor and started to teach and I have been at San Diego State ever since in a great Department also in a great City but uh America's Finest city right America's Finest City it's it's very difficult to to get away from here when you have a good job here which is why I stayed but it's a fantastic department and um and you know it's a what the way I describe this department it's a true geography
Department in the sense that uh it has always been fairly balanced in its offerings there's always you know maybe more of one thing or the other but uh our students here do get a an education that covers you know Human Geography physical geography uh and and all the geographic information science uh components and it's great to be in that environment uh with with many other geographers with very diverse ways of thinking so great intellectual diversity which I love and a great diversity of peopl
e uh from all over the world as well their International department so from the begin I I felt uh very much connected to this place and and here I am I guess 21 years later uh professor and now department chair for the past three years and and when when you arrived maybe one of the most one of the more Dynamic figures if not the most dynamic figure in the department was Larry Ford and I would imagine you had discussions with him concerning matters Urban Geographic especially with regard to Latin
America right and so it's interesting I have as an undergrad at whittenberg of course uh in my urban geography CL class of course we all learned the Ford Griffin model of the Latin American city and then I was like I couldn't believe that I was going to interview for a job you know and you know and meet the the real Larry Ford um and so yes it was fantastic the the years that um I was here uh with Larry that unfortunately he passed away later on but um the years that we spent here as colleagues
were truly truly fantastic and you know um Larry was so humble and he was such an uh on the ground geographer and uh as young phds we and in the late 90s and the early 2000s I was very much into Theory very much into all kinds of theoretical discussions that were going on in the discipline that were fantastic but I got to San Diego State and Larry uh Ford he's like let's go out in San Diego let's look at the landscape the things that Larry did and it was an amazing amazing experience because he
in a way it made me reconnect with that first urban geography class at wh at Wittenberg that had made me a geographer you know and so I basically learned San Diego from Larry forth uh he and I organized some amazing field trips I mean Larry did everything because one of the students he was certainly gifted in his talents with regard to landscape interpretation ation there are few if any geographers that have walked in so many cities across the globe as Larry has or he would walk and walk and wa
lk and talk while he was walking discuss what he was seeing and and and expressed his interpretation of what would appear as ordinary Landscapes exactly he had that power to to you know reveal uncover um allow you to see things that you didn't know were there and so that was a wonderful experience uh uh with Larry what I didn't know at the time uh is that Larry had done his dissertation in Argentina looking at medium-sized cities in Buenos Iris in the province and had done a lot of work um um in
uh walking around than in Bueno cides so I was lucky enough that just less than a year before uh he passed away we were able to meet in Bueno cidus and basically walk my kind of native City together and do the same thing that we have done in San Diego but in Bueno sidtis and in this case it was kind of me showing him some of my favorite features of the urban landscape in the city and him remembering things that he have seen before and we were talking about change and you know what has changed a
nd you know and we had planned that perhaps we were going to do something together uh after that trip unfortunately that didn't happen uh but still the the memory and the experience of you know the years with Larry Ford here at San state are are something that I I truly truly treasure well you you you certainly did have uh a rich experience with him and um it's it's something that um very few geographers have really been able to um enjoy but at least you have that that time that you can you can
reflect upon and appreciate um you you arrived at San Diego State shortly after the department was able to develop a PhD program in collaboration with Santa Barbara and you were able to really attract more students for that PhD um would you care to comment on the challenges in um mentoring guiding students who would spend part of their time in San Diego and have to go to Santa Barbara for a while and then back to San Diego which which has great benefits as well as some logistical issues you are
correct we have this unique joint doctoral program with UCSB um it's been going strong for more than it's almost three decades almost at least 25 20 well yeah probably 95 96 something like that yeah correct yeah so you know very strong uh yes we um for the students when we recruit students like you said uh we the advantage that we sell is look you have access to two wonderful institutions two different set of set of Faculty but you have a logistical challenge which is uh you spend one year in Sa
n Diego and the second year traditionally is when you go to San Barbara and then you come back and finish in San Diego and you know I would say that um fortunately we have wonderful colleagues at UCSB uh who have worked with us very well and I would say it was a learning curve for both departments uh you know you're integrating two different cultures uh two groups of faculty two different institutions Santa Barbara is a fantastic geography department but it's very different from San Diego State
Geography and and so yeah there's uh there's a lot of work that needs to be done it's uh challenging and it's demanding uh for faculty in both um spaces and it's demanding for the students um luckily uh technology the same way that you and I are chatting right now has helped a lot overcome some of the friction of distance even though you know San Diego and sarra don't seem to be that far it is a you know it is a Long Train Ride Amtrak is not particularly fast from here to Santa Barbara traffic t
hrough La is impossible so uh it is not something you know so technology helps and um um we have found ways to work well with each other the the two departments with um things like annual faculty Retreats where both departments and student Representatives get together and work through whatever logistical administrative issues um and yeah it's a it's a wonderful experience uh again it's not for the faint of heart for the students and some and we tell them ahead of time you know uh uh students uh
with families it's much harder on them uh you know because it is very difficult to approve a family from first to San Diego and then to Santa Barbara so some students have done um great sacrifices uh um uh to you know to be able to stay in the program but I would say the program has been very successful our students uh are placed really well uh and uh so we're very happy and proud about that but as as you should be because your your students have placed very well you have a number of students in
uh doctoral or alumni I should say from the PHD granting program um in in doctoral granting departments today um that that's wonderful what challenges aside from administering the students do you see in your rle as chair that are unique to San Diego State uh in terms of geography or um yes in terms of geography well uh there's a couple of things and I think this uh it's something that you know something about based on your experience uh for me as chair it is very important to maintain a departm
ent that is uh active and healthy collegial respectful and at the same time uh with high academic standard and one thing that um I've always found um uh amazing about this department is the collegiality so um I think the the challenge of the co pandemic uh which is exactly when I became chair you know I wanted to be chair because I wanted to be even more Community oriented I wanted to get the Department close closer to our alumni Network which is very strong in San Diego and in the region and so
I I I had my C my campaign as chair was strengthening those connections in the department and of course uh I was elected chair right uh when uh in the spring semester right when we went to shutdown uh mode and um I and I started in the fall as virtual chair and so the challenge for me that year was honestly as a new chair uh how to keep the department together and I'm sure my my experience is is not unique it's probably what many Department chairs uh have to go through and then coming back and
try to rebuild the community the sense of community the department the trust and I was um amazed are and sadden to see how fast the pandemic was able to destroy many of those ties you know and and and uh realizing how important the continuity of having uh face-to-face contact with people hallway conversations uh coffee hour with graduate students how all the things that create the department culture how quickly that can collapse there is something to be said for the value of serendipity in terms
of interactions exactly I I always say that that was the the hardest part of running a department in the pandemic is many times there are small little crisis that you little fires that you have to deal with that if you're in the department and people around you step out of your office into the hallway and said hey this is happening can we talk for five minutes and something that is you know maybe not a big deal but you get it fixed in 10 15 minutes someone says sure I can help you with that whe
n we were all at home that didn't happen it was a series of zooms and emails and disconnections and so everything was you know it took longer and you just couldn't have that and so the challenge after going back for me and I think it still is for many places is how we rebuild our departments I I'm not saying that we have to be exactly the same as before the pandemic we learned lessons we you know we learned things about technology we also learned more about how vulnerable we were and maybe um uh
we learned that some practices that we were doing before maybe were not the best but then to find that new that new form of connecting with each other uh has been a challenge H but that's very important to me uh as a chair certainly well relationship building is key when one is in a leadership position and when one has followers that the leader seeks to achieve a certain Mission which is in many ways a stellar geography program for you yeah yeah and I have to say that I had the um advantage tha
t uh during the pandemic I participated in some AAG workshops on leadership uh with Ken food and others where great geographer great geographer great geographer and he I have met Ken through other ah initiatives some academic reviews of the department and um I was was lucky enough that he invited me to participate in some virtual workshops with other leaders and other and it was very important to me to learn from others and to listen what other department chairs were going through and then durin
g the pandemic to start planning for how we get out of this and what are we going to do when we go back and so that was that was very important and I the the value of our geography Network through our regional divisions and through our National Organization it's something that I value tremendously because uh during the pandemic it was a great uh great support network you know for for leaders well let's talk about the regional division for a moment since you brought it up the association of Pacif
ic Coast geographers you are the current president of the apcg I guess um I'll ask you how do you see your role as as president of this uh unique Regional division in within the AAG for it is one of two I believe that is that gives its members the opportunity to be freestanding members it is indeed a unique organization and uh as uh it is older than the age uh and um funny enough the person who told me that I should get involved with the apcg was Larry for is that right as soon as I got to San D
iego um he said well Fernando I think now that you're here you need to get to know the regional division the apcg and I had been active in the East Lakes uh Regional division when I was a graduate student in Ohio but yeah it was Larry uh who introduced me and uh who I I went with to my first apcg meeting with him uh I'm trying to remember where this was and my memory is failing me uh at this moment it may have been Portland OR uh you know could have been Portland um anyways um very walkable City
for Larry a very walkable City and we did and we did walk it and it was my first time in Portland so another fantastic experience um so the APC well you know I um I'm lucky enough that I I got involved with the apcg uh I've been involved over the years um I was member I was a member of the committee that gives grants and scholarships to students of Hispanic descent and I served in that committee for many years um and so uh when the opportunity arose I I think I I also had run for vice president
once before and but uh I didn't win but it is important to always to me regardless of whether one wins or not for for a position in our organizations what we need is people to step up uh you know and uh again this relates back to the pandemic the APC suffered a lot uh through uh the the pandemic because one of the Marquee events for a regional division our members really really enjoy is our annual meeting and um so of course like all other academics meetings uh that was um you know that didn't
happen uh for two years and so we uh we lost some members uh what keeps again what keeps people together and interested in these organizations is being able to talk to other geograph rers attending panels attending sessions and so um my I see my my not just me but the entire apcg executive committee which is made out of wonderful people and some of them who have been involved with the apcg for a year like Bob Richardson who is now back helping us as a stresser again whose father was the chair at
San Diego State many years ago for a long time who also grew up in San Diego and went to high school five blocks away from my house which I only learned from Bob a few weeks ago when we were having a conversation about the apcg finances anyways so I see my my role as the APC president as again trying to revive as much as possible interest and attract students uh our graduate students and undergrad students students uh to attend their meetings uh to become involved again uh and I have to say we
you were there which has had a fantastic meeting in Ventura California in October that was organized by the um the executive committee of the apcg uh and our past um uh president uh because of the the difficulty of finding departments uh who after the pandemic are willing to put on the effort to um to you know to host a conference which is a which is a lot of work and so we we had some difficulties and we decided no uh we are not gonna not have a meeting so the executive committee will do this a
nd uh and luckily uh the meeting went really well and luckily with the efforts of you know all the people who always help uh the apcg we are now have a roster of future academic sites for future meetings so yeah I see my role as president as I have to be an advocate for the organization and I have to promote it and I have to you know let students know how good it is we do great service to students we give so many scholarships and travel Awards thanks to the generosity of our members who uh many
of them um you know um who have been donating for uh for you know for a a long time but what I would like is to create that new generation of people of younger members who see the value in the apcg attend the meetings benefit from scholarships and awards and then then are the the new people who are going to donate and help us keep uh growing so I've been trying to emphasize that and I I'm writing something for the newsletter precisely for our newsletter that will come out in the spring uh right
along those lines right the important importance of showing up uh uh showing your gratitude to an organization that has supported students and becoming involved so that the the organization can keep going and I hope that's the case I hope that's the case it would be it would be wonderful to see the apcg expand back to its um higher numbers in terms of participation and I I know that when I bring students to meetings they find themselves to be invigorated by by the scholarship that they are viewi
ng and listening to by the field trips by just informal dialogues with others and they're they're our future I really I truly believe we as a discipline are too often giving short shrift to our students and the onus is upon the professorate to do what we can for them I I completely agree with you uh that's exactly uh you know one of the points I was trying to make our our students are the future it's not us you know the students are a future and you know the the I would say the academic landscap
e the academic Market has become more fragmented are so many competing conferences and everyone seems to have their own Niche where they think they can talk to you know the experts in their fields my point which is a counter of that is the advantage of a conference like the apcg and the other Regional conferences and the a uh which is much bigger in scale but going back to the apcg events it reminds us of what geography truly is it reconnects us with you know the the the pillars of the disciplin
e and that's what unites us and like you said people and students have here all these fantastic conversations from geographers coming from a multitude of perspectives it is not exactly specific to their field but the value of that broad perspective you know is what reminds us why we like geography as an integrative discipline you know and that's what students get excited because that's why they came to geography in the first place and when they see that in a in a the rich environment of a confer
ence with presentations and panels and field trips it all comes together so I think the more students we bring to these uh events I think that the more successful we will be not just in um you know uh making sure the organization endures but the discipline itself you know uh so that we don't lose our identity as geographers which to me to me that's the most important thing you know I I'm a geographer geographer first and foremost absolutely and so that's that's given G give given your your your
stance as being a geographer and I identify myself as a geographer as do others some don't some will say they're something else but but but we're geographers what um what research are you conducting now you've done some fascinating things what are you involved in right now perhaps with students maybe not that uh you find you find particularly captivating well um I have a few different things going on uh in for the past probably uh 10 years or yeah I would say 10 10 years I have been collaboratin
g with one of my colleagues here working on studying the impacts of changing food landscapes in San Diego uh and also internationally going back to Argentina so we're looking at um the impact of gentrification on the food Landscapes of a city like San Diego which has experienced tremendous gentrification pressures very much um and that has meant um you know the the development of uh entertainment sectors and neighborhoods that are very much food Centric but that also attract tourists and attract
newcomers but that also have had uh some negative effects on the local population who might lose uh the opportunity to enjoy those places um simply because of like the the changing retail the um you know uh the availability of food so we I've done we published several papers on this topic uh also working with uh young people uh with a high school in San Diego here close to San Diego State looking at their um Food consumptions daily routines about food and how the urban landscape the advertiseme
nts that they see on the way to school influence uh food choices and how that then um kind of clashes with some of the healthy food messages that like the schools are trying to promote so there's kind of a little bit of the clash between what they're being taught and what they see outside and so that was a very interesting research project and then uh with my colleague Pascal trar marelli uh we just finished a a project that was interrupted by co uh but we were able to just publish the first pap
er out of it which where we compare Bueno sidus Los Angeles and Paris in terms of restaurants and gentrification uh and so that was a really good project I did feel work in Bueno sidtis prior to the pandemic she did it in Paris we both went to LA and then I was able to go back to wois last year to finish some stuff up and so I love compared the urbanization research and and collaborating with another Urban geographer and um you know going to cities together field workor in La was awesome which h
as went an eight in many different places and looked at menus and talk to restaurant and and customers and then did a lot of social media analysis so really fantastic project so yeah I've been doing stuff on Urban geographies of food urban urban culinary stuff is great and and it's uh and these are studies that you can bring into the classroom that students will be able to relate to easily regardless of what their prior background happen to be in geography I'm sure that's what you do exactly in
fact um um I teach I regularly teach a a Latin America class and um you know we are a border University and so uh we have Latin America in San Diego in many places and then we can cross the border and luckily uh now uh you know we are able to do it again after the pandemic and I do have a lot of students in my Latin American class that take the class because they want to learn about their Heritage and uh many of them are of Mexican descent but other ones have a different Hispanic descent but any
ways one of the ways to bring my research to the classroom is uh uh they go in the field whether it's in San Diego or Tijuana and I give them some of the theoretical tools that I used in my research and they're like go look at the Landscapes of taco shops in in Tijuana and in San Diego Barbara Frederick used to take students into Tijuana you know field trips and I forgot to mention that Barbara Frederick was also here when I came to San Diego wonderful person wonderful person and she great geogr
apher great geographer she's still a friend of the department now that she's retired and oh my God you just brought back memories when I interview here uh my first dinner where they took me out to dinner was Barry Ford and Barbara Frederick and so what a doo and so yeah absolutely and to be honest I didn't know that Barbara took students to team to do this yes well I'm and to Tate as well on field Tri that's great um um yeah and speaking of students I remember my goodness it must have been right
before you arrived I think it was mentioned perhaps by aguad that half of the undergraduate geography Majors came from community colleges which is why the relationship was developed with the local Community College es I would say that now it's even more than that I would say 7 75% of our Stu undergraduates in geography come to us from local community colleges and some of them not that local we have some undergrads that came from Community College in Santa Barbara this year that I met and so yea
h the connection to our community colleges is very important and this is one of the great advantages I think of the CSU system because California has developed a very rich community college system or network that also uh encourages the teaching of geography very true uh and again it's it's part of this geography family and geography Network the people who teach geography a community colleges are so committed to Geographic education and they're such good sellers you know of the discipline by thei
r mentoring and by their classes and we have mentored some of the geography instructors in community colleges in fact one of my first Master's students here at San Diego State is now for many years a longtime member uh teacher in one of the community colleges here and so there's a pipeline of geographers through our own academic connections that keeps growing and that is very important because you know geography you know this very well and other geographers know that geography is a discovery dis
cipline our undergrads don't apply to San Diego State saying Hey I want to be a geographer you know they they become geographers once they take a class and the light bulb in their heads goes it's like oh my God I love this which is exactly what happened to me but that takes a while uh and so um uh we do get you know those students at San Diego State who discover the major uh which is why I when I was not chair uh I used to teach the intro to Human Geography because uh you know it is you know tha
t's a way you you like hook them like hey look what we can do and there's more for you come to our department and um but yeah the the the community colleges are invaluable Partners in promoting the discipline and making sure that that we endure as Departments of geography as and as a discipline so we have about a minute or two to go and I'll ask you to to think about your career you know reflect upon your path through geography today and your experiences and and and consider offering some words
of AD of advice for prospective undergraduate students or prospective geography majors and also graduate students who are um currently pursuing geography graduate degrees maybe even colleagues well uh I consider myself a very fortunate person um I come from very humble and background I never expected my life to become what it became and it is none of this would have been possible without the support of people your friends and your mentors and so to me to my colleagues and to those of you who are
in in this profession is Pay It Forward because we are who we are because someone at some point paid attention to US mentored US helped us navigate a difficult situation and so that to me is it's what I try to do every day for undergraduate students and or graduate students or prospective students uh I would say you know once you find once you take that class that that you find very exciting hopefully it's that geography class then uh talk to professors your professors want to be your mentors a
nd when a student shows interest in a topic in a class and they come to your office or they say hey I'm interested in learning more about this I am me and and you and everyone it's so happy to hear that hey I I'll do cartwheels right exactly and so once once you tap that person who is a resource right you are without knowing doors are opening to you and for you uh the same with what we talked about of attending Regional meetings and and and talking to meeting people there so the the the importan
ce of uh you know building a strong Mentor relationship with your professors and then slowly building a network I think that's uh what will help students in the future and and again I mean I think we geographers where a community that is always willing to help future geographers because we love the discipline so much and so yeah to me is pay it forward and for the students uh Don't Be Afraid reach out to people we are humans your professors want the best for you and um uh I so far in my career t
hat has worked out I have had great undergrad students the grad students I have mentored are doing really well and I hope they're doing the same because that's the message that I gave to them and I know they're doing well and they're doing the same so yeah well those those are wonderful Pearls of Wisdom and it's great advice that I hope you know some of our viewers and listeners will follow Fernando it has indeed been a great pleasure to uh chat with you today um thank you so very much thank you
very much it's been great uh you allow me to think about a few things that I haven't thought about before so I hope uh this was useful for you and someone else absolutely you've um you've really youve your story is truly going to be uh u a very important chapter really in the OR history of our discipline as as this series moves on thank you so much thank you this now concludes this episode of conversation with the geographer thank [Music] you
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