Could Halyna Hutchins Have Been Saved by Emergency Responders?: Day 4 Recap

on October 21st 2021 Alec Baldwin was filming a western movie entitled rust in Bonanza Creek New Mexico Baldwin was rehearsing a scene with director Joel soua and cinematographer Elina Hutchins Baldwin was seated in a church practicing a cross draw with a 45 caliber revolver as Baldwin practiced pulling the weapon from the left side of his body with his right arm the gun discharged the bullet struck Helena Hutchins and Joel Souza Souza survived but Helena did not an investigation into what was h

appening on the set revealed some shocking circumstances investigators say they found six live rounds on the set including some in a photo with the woman in charge of gun safety 24-year-old armorer Hannah Gutierrez additional live rounds were found in a box marked dummy rounds meanwhile Alec ball aldwin insists his finger was not on the trigger tonight we take a closer look at the gun is it possible that it malfunctioned and could Helena Hutchins have been saved by emergency responders all this

as we continue our investigation into the Baldwin movie shooting I'm Von thank you so much for joining us tonight here on closing arguments this trial continues out in New Mexico and when we talk about what was taking place this was the filming of a movie a western with a lot of guns most westerns do have guns that's the genre the genre has been around a long long time so it would seem that people in Hollywood would understand and know how to film a western without setting off live rounds but th

at didn't happen here three times three times a live round was set off on this during the filming of this movie three times the last one taking the life of Helena Hutchins now let's talk about the movie a little bit um Alec Baldwin was not just the star of the movie he was also executive producer big star small movie that's the way you have to look at this all right this isn't a major Studio production C with hundreds of millions of dollars being flooded into it no it's it's a it's a smaller mov

ie an independent movie with an A-list Superstar Alec Baldwin executive producer and of course the star in front of the camera of this movie and the reason that presumably people would go watch it and see it oh Alec Baldwin's in this movie must be good let's go watch watch it for Helena hutkins the cinematographer in this one this was a great opportunity you're working with Alec Baldwin so you know the movie is going to get some Buzz it's a it's an independent movie so it's one that Alec Baldwin

must believe in to do probably not the biggest Money Maker but he's invested in everything and will make money from the profits as an executive producer but again not one of these super blockbuster movies but a great great opportunity for Helena hutchon so you can understand why she would want to be there despite the fact that these negligent discharges were taking place why she would stay to film this movie for her career Hollywood's a tough place it's a tough tough Place tough town to make it

and for her she saw this as this this this movie could be the big one for me this could be the one that catapults me to the next level in the industry history cost her her life so what happened with the movie like what happened to the movie rust well tonight we're going to find out we're going to follow up and let you know everything that has taken place before the shooting after the shooting and what the status is of this production and who's involved in this in this production we're going to

get to that but first it was another big day inside the courtroom here are something of the big [Music] moments and what was your conclusion for cause of death a death was caused by a gunshot wound in the chest and what was the manner of death I certified the manner of death as accident looking at the U material that was available to me through law enforcement reports it was apparent to me there was no obvious intent to cause death it doesn't mean there's no negligence or so on but it means ther

e was no intent to cause death based on the experiment that we did with this gun back in August of 2023 um even if the Hammer of the gun was damaged on October 21st of 2021 would the trigger have to be pulled for the gun to fire two things yes the trigger would have to be depressed or pulled the hammer would have to be at the full position and it can't be damaged because it would do what we saw here and what you just saw here would not fire the gun if Mr Baldwin were cross drawing that weapon an

d had his finger in the trigger guard and then he pulled it and it had the fully and and it slipped and let go would that fire that weapon only if he had the trigger pulled or depressed or similar but I make a slight distinction between it being depressed versus pulled okay so sir so either way that Shooter had to either have it depressed have his finger in the trigger or pull that trigger for that to Fire and have it caught and have it C fully cocked fully cck you sent the gun that was being us

ed by Mr Baldwin to the FBI for testing is that correct yes we did and prior to the testing being done with the Mallet um were you notified that that testing could potentially result in damage to the gun yes and what was the reason that you proceeded with the testing anyway we proceeded with the testing because Mr Baldwin had made statements um that he didn't pull the trigger and I think his exact statement was that the gun just went off um so we needed to figure out how to disprove that theory

um or that statement I told you another big day inside the courtroom let's bring in court TV legal correspondent Kelly craf who's live in Santa Fe New Mexico tonight where the Sun is setting as we speak uh Kelly great to see you uh let's start first with the victim in this case uh Helena Hutchins uh Today medical examiner and autopsy photos yes Vinnie the autopsy photos they were showed to the jury today this is when the medical examiner the chief investigator from the University of New Mexico s

he was on the stand talking about the cause of death the G gunshot wound to the chest of Helena Hutchin and then also the manner of death which she said was accidental so she explained that during her testimony and I want to mention that when these autopsy photos were being shown to the jury the defendant in this case Hannah Gutierrez was really having a hard time throughout this trial we've watched her and she has remained mostly stoic at times sometimes really interested in what's being said s

ometimes appearing not so interested but to today she visibly was distressed when the state was showing these autopsy photos of Helena Hutchin she had her eyes closed at times her head would be down at times she had her hands on her head so you could tell that it was really hard for her to be watching all of the uh the video and the testimony that was being talked about from the medical examiner and when those photos were being shown Vinnie it's always a difficult moment now this isn't murder ca

se accidental involuntary manslaughter is the charge it's about recklessness criminal negligence that's what it's what it's about in this case but still when you see the results of that it it can it it makes things very very real in the courtroom so let's talk about this body cam video from the movie set right responders show up people have cameras on so you're seeing almost the immediate aftermath of everything you really did get a chance to see that Vena the jurors have those monitors in front

of them so they can see this up close so First Responders get on scene and it's chaos and eventually they end up talking with the defendant in this case Hannah Gutierrez and what we're going to show you are some of the comments that Hannah makes this is going to be through a bathroom door you can hear her talking about her career as an armorer being over and she says well welcome to the worst day of my life let's take a listen I don't want to go back okay just want here and never show my face i

n this industry ever again well I wouldn't say that no I wouldn't how long have you been uh working here just a month just a month yeah and just been doing this job for like 9 months now okay how old are you 24 I'm like the only female armor in the game and I just up my whole entire career have you uh studied Armory or did you go to classes or how did you get into it my dad's the best one of the best armor in the entire world and trained me in and Vinnie also during that footage Hannah expresses

shock that Alec Baldwin was holding that weapon during another police interview that was played for the jurors today you can hear her talk about how she would try to be training actors on the set and that typically she would normally be training actors one-on-one but then on this particular movie set the movie set of rust she was having to train three actors at a time she said that while she would be trying to train them that producers would also be talking to the actors that they would be dist

racted by her training weren't really paying attention to her at all and she said Alec Baldwin was always on his phone that's that's a problem for Alec Baldwin um it'd be interesting to see how that impacts Hannah Gutierrez right because you know there there's and prosecutors this is their theory that there's three people involved in in uh making all of this happen right allowing this to happen on the set yeah Hannah Gutierrez Dave Halls who's pleaded guilty and Alec Baldwin who'll be tried um t

his summer so something else that the jury saw today was the police interview of Hannah gutiz and one thing that's that's striking before you get to what she's saying is just how she appears I mean inside the courtroom she looks like she's one of the stars of the movie rust um I mean she looks very glamorous inside the courtroom it it's much different than how she appeared in in the police interview which they got to see today it is quite a change and and today she had on a long leather skirt Vi

nnie some boots makeup done hair up looks looks terrific and she's very friendly when she comes out of the courtroom waving at us she's uh said some comments to our photographer here Peter and also I've mentioned before she mentioned to me that her mother loves watching Court TV but yes quite a different image than what she had on that movie set of rust and even when she's doing that police interview just it's as if it's kind of a different person but let's listen to some of that police intervie

w now I I want to say first the judge the jurors did send out a note to the judge saying that they were hopeful that they could get some closed captioning of that police interview because they were having a hard time hearing some of it the judge denied that request but said if any of the jurors here are having a hard time hearing things do not be shy raise your hand let me know and we can figure out how to make sure that you hear everything but let's play some of that now that might be a regular

live round though it looks pretty that's what they were thinking it could be a live round um no I I just like you said and I and I think what do a protocol because of Lee when all that happened on set too was is there anything that stuck out of ordinary today to you no I mean just the whole camera crew quit that's all so we were like super behind and everything when did the C camera crew quit uh yesterday so is there a reason I don't know okay um I don't think that they would be involved in tha

t and Vinnie you can see that' be a logical question from of the investigators in this case you have the camera crew the whole entire crew six people quitting walking off the set and then this shooting happen so she's trying to figure out did someone sabotage this set not want this movie made and then you hear Hannah Gutierrez saying that she cannot imagine someone doing such a thing she can't she can't even fathom it yeah I I think that would be now we're talking about a murder case if someone

did that but there were two prior Nega negligent discharges of weapons on the set before they left my guess is it's more likely they left because guns are being fired and there's other problems like she said that they're behind so they're being rushed Etc uh which all you know coming together creates a real problem here Kelly craf in New Mexico tonight great to see you we will speak again tomorrow night thank you so much okay let's talk about the movie itself this movie rust what do we know abou

t it let's bring our special guest joining us in Los Angeles California entertainment reporter and host of Kinsey's La Diaries on talk TV Kinsey scoffield is with us Kinsey great to see you again um let's start with this movie what was the movie rust about what was the plot here for this movie that's right hi any a plot that might hit too close to home today we rust is a passion project written by Alec Baldwin and Joel Souza ironically the storyline is about manslaughter a teenage boy is sentenc

ed to death for accidentally killing a local Rancher Alec Baldwin plays an outlaw named Harold rust who rides to his grandson's the teenage boy rides to his rescue after sentencing um so a little bizarre to to discover that plotline absolutely and I didn't realize that the movie was co-written by Alec Baldwin so he I mean this was his movie this is really his movie so did they ever finish it that yes so rust resumed filming at the Yellowstone film Ranch in Montana at the end of April 2023 the fi

lm finally wrapped in May of the same year originally the production had a filming schedule of just 21 days that started in New Mexico on October 6 2021 with a budget of between $6 and7 million obviously those are two goals or projections that production just did not meet when they resumed filming in Montana this set had zero working weapons and what they were referred to as enhanced safety protocols according to vulture a lawyer for rust says that the scene that was being rehearsed when Hutchin

s was fatally shot has been re Rewritten but will remain in the film with some changes wow so what's the so they finished they WRA how how long does it take out in Hollywood you rrap a movie till the folks can see it and and do we know what type of release this movie will have so I did call the US distributor today and I tried to get some answers for you I can't tell if they can't or won't give me answers on it they perhaps are trying to distance themselves it doesn't have a release date at this

time and it is unclear if or how the trials are affecting that release schedule and there was one interesting development that happened where Matthew Hutchins Alina's husband a widower now is now an executive producer of this movie yes sir Matthew Hutchin serving in the capacity of executive producer he said in a statement involving the conclusion of his monetary settlement as part of that settlement his case was dismissed the film of rust which I will now executive produce he says will resume

with all the original principal players on board um now he clearly seems to be endorsing the film through that statement however the late cinematographers mother father and sister are not involved in the film and have an active law suit that names the production company Baldwin Gutierrez Reed and more wow so it's I I thought all the Civil stuff was wrapped up but it's not because uh her family still in involved there interesting stuff we'll keep an eye open to see when this movie is released and

my guess is that Matthew wants it released he's the executive producer um and and we'll see how it all develops Kenzie scoffield great information as always thank you so much thank you all right folks um when we come back we are going to to take a look at two important issues in this case uh today one um could she have been saved Helena Hutchins could emergency workers have saved her did they not do the job properly at the scene to keep her alive and we're going to take a look at the weapon and

what the FBI did with the weapon plus coming up next hour in Athens Georgia the brutal murder of nursing student lakan Riley tonight we are learning new details about what happened and about the accused killer was this crime preventable he did not know her at all um I think this was a crime of opportunity I'm the armor or at least I was a famous actor in a movie set accident that ended in tragedy I try and C the gun the gun goes on now Alec Baldwin and the film's armorer have both been charged

with involuntary manslaughter just because because it's an accident doesn't mean that it's not Criminal Court TV takes you inside the courtroom as Hannah Gutierrez faces a jury the Baldwin movie shooting trial live coverage weekday mornings only on court [Music] TV accidental discharge its goal is essentially to determine can I fire this firearm without pulling the trigger that's that's kind of the end goal and the way we do that is the test is designed to simulate the firearm being bumped or ba

nged into something just being jostled around um and seeing can those kind of interactions fire the firearm so the way we replicate this in the laboratory is I will take the gun and actually strike it with a raw hide Mallet on six planes so if you picture picture a box sitting in front of you the six planes would be the front of the box the rear of the Box the left side the right side the top and the bottom so those are the six planes so if you kind of picture the revolver and picture how those

six planes work around that gun I'm going to go around and strike the firearm and all six of those planes with a rawh hide Mallet again trying to determine if it will actually fire without me touching the trigger this type of testing is potentially disruptive to the firearm um so just kind of generally speaking if I'm going to do an exam that may destroy or alter the evidence permanently I would seek out the contributor's permission to do that exam before I actually go and do it so that that is

what was done in this case they took the Mallet and they they mangled this gun and the testing and and I understand the theory of this right but as a lawyer and a former prosecutor I'm a little concerned here because now you've destroyed some evidence and the defense doesn't have their own independent opportunity to examine the gun and they're going to make a big deal about it and if there is a conviction it becomes another thing that the appell courts have to deal with but um like hitting it wi

th a mallet like Alec Baldwin told you exactly what he did with the gun he just pulled it out like this that's what he showed you and he's drawing back the hammer he's not bumping into anything there's video of him doing the same exact thing before lunch there's four Witnesses who could tell you what he did I don't know why they're hitting it with the Mallet but take a listen to more of the FBI Firearms inspector talking about how they destroyed this piece of evidence I wanted to test this gun i

n all four positions of the hammer so at rest quarter half and fully um and essentially as a result of that testing there were only two times that I was able to get this firearm to fire the the first one being when the hammer was at rest on a loaded chamber so as I previously described to you the firing pin was sitting directly on the primer so when I struck the Hammer with a mallet that provided enough Force to detonate the primer so again that's a known uh feature of this type of firearm the s

econd test where this occurred was when the hammer was in the fully cocked position eventually at some point I struck the Hammer with a raw hide Mallet and the Hammer actually fell and it detonated the primer so what happened was some of the internal components of the firearm actually broke to allow that hammer to fall and fire the the prime cartridge case in order for you to make the gun fire without pulling the trigger when it was in the full coock position you had to break it that's that's wh

at I had to do in my lab um I can't account for all the other possibilities that may have existed in you know some hypothetical scenario but this is the result as I tested it in my laboratory it would not fire without pulling the trigger in the full setting without being broken all right I get it but to prove that uh I don't know let let me bring in my guest joining me from Woodlands Texas gun expert former DEA senior special agent Dave Katz is with us and in Tustin California safety expert auth

or of the book get safe steuart has Haskin is with us uh great to have you both here um David uh and you're a lawyer too David I know right you're you're a lawyer too but is is this crazy that we're breaking evidence to prove that to fire a gun you have to pull the trigger like I know that's what Baldwin kept saying my finger wasn't on the trigger but we know it kind of what he did There's Witnesses who could tell you that saw it there's a video of him doing it prior to lunch and there's him des

cribing what he did so why is the FBI taking a mallet and destroying the evidence that's a really good question you you would look we test Firearms when I was at at quanico let's say DEA or FBI was was considering authorizing a particular gun one thing you want to make sure the gun doesn't go bang if it gets dropped inadvertently or or or slammed or someone bang you're you're in a tussle during an arrest so those those impact type tests have great benefit but here there was no impact there was n

o NE there was absolutely no need to do that and you're exactly right so now the defense is going to say so what you're telling us is we can't bring in our independent experts to show how that gun could have malfunctioned that could have gone off you destroyed the evidence we are now incapable of of showing the jury that you are mistaken because you broke it so that's that's that's unfortunately where they're at now with a mallet with the Mallet all right Stuart this this case is all about safet

y protocols um but the big issue for Alec baldwi from the beginning was my finger wasn't on the trigger my finger wasn't on the trigger um go ahead go ahead V well first of all that set is a mess they've had two negligent discharges there was a security advisor there was the armor and then the fact that Allan says Alex says his finger wasn't trigger if he hasn't shot a lot that's a natural recourse I was just working with a training some firearm shooting and the first thing they do is you know t

hey always put their finger on the trigger and that's the biggest lesson so I kind of feel like you may not know it was on the trigger and then what is the trigger pull on that thing it's pretty it's pretty easy you know pull especially if adrenaline's rushing and he's working in a set so so to break the gun and see if it was it was an accidental discharge or negligent discharge I don't know I just see that there's so many issues that had happened on that set now David in this cross draw right i

f his finger's not on the trigger and he's pulling back the hammer the the gun is built in a way that it's not g to it's not going to fire it cannot fire there is no way that hammer goes forward unless the trigger is pulled rearward period I mean so what what I think might have happened as he as he you know Stewart's exactly correct people you have to train people to keep their finger out of the trigger guard so I think and this is just pure speculation he reaches in takes the pistol the finger

on the trigger with pressure he he comes out he points the pistol and he the hammer and maybe it slips or maybe he thinks it's going to lock back the way I I'm assuming that's part of that that would have been the scene lock the hammer back and then threaten whoever you point I don't know what what the actual act acting entailed but if he had pulled the hammer back with pressure on that trigger now it's going to go forward it's going to strike the round and tragedy results all right steuart how

would you rank all of the safety protocols that seemingly were violated here um a live round in the weapon an actor with his finger on the trigger pointing it at someone in the room and perhaps the lack of additional training yep and I'll give you one more which is not checking all the rounds prior to handing them to Alec Baldwin yeah I mean as David knows every weapon is a hot weapon there's no such thing as a cold weapon once you have that in your hand and Alex maybe because he executive produ

cer he grabbed something I'm not sure who handed in the weapon without checking it and it's tough U I know David trains actors as well to kind of check every weapon that you pick up and that's what you have to do so their safety protocols were like I got to give them maybe an 8% out of a 100 I don't know because I worked on many B movies and everything the one priority was the weapons and the electrical and different things that are dangerous so everyone on that was on the same page things were

double checked armor checks it they're locked up carried to the actors double checks it again the actors even got in once they were trained they look at it as well but you can't expect the actor so Alec bowan as the actor he may not have the skill set but as the executive producer he's got to be aware of this stuff this is his liability and that's the thing that you saw there was it was a mess the crew what I read the crew one of the crews left two days before then they brought in this armor cou

ple days guer testified today that six of them left they just they just they just left the day before so I mean the writing was on the wall here unbelievable true Chaos on that set for sure AB it's a shame and then you know it's just a sad one no matter what a life was lost and they're still going to pay with that just and Incredibly preventable on so many level if just one person had done what they were supposed to do David cat Stuart hin appreciate your time tonight thanks so much guys hey tha

nk you Vinnie thanks Ste all right folks when we come back some interesting testimony from the medical examiner talking about what emergency responders did and could they have saved Helena's [Music] life [Music] what was your conclusion for cause of death a death was caused by a gunshot wound in the chest and what was the manner of death I certified the manner of death as accident and can you explain why you classified it as an accident yes I classified the manner of death as accident well me li

ft me back up to go to a homicide is classified as um a volitional act caused by another to cause fear harm or death intent is not always needed it is a common element but is not always needed um conversely for an accident to be applicable what must was what must not be present is an intent um to cause fear harm or death looking at the U material that was available to me through law enforcement reports it was apparent to me there was no obvious intent to cause death it doesn't mean there's no ne

gligence or so on but it means there was no intent to cause death additionally um there are medical examiners across this country that would have certified the manner of death in this case as homicide however reviewing the material that was applicable to me it is clear that there was a belief on the set that the firearm was not loaded with live ammunition interesting homicide versus accidental it's kind of both it's like an accidental homicide homicide death in the hands of another right I mean

someone had a gun and fired the gun uh but did it accidentally all right I want you to take a listen to some of the cross-examination of the chief medical investigator because something else came came up during the cross examination that I don't think any of us knew or even considered in this case um and it could be an issue take a listen during your findings you did a CT scan before your external examination correct yes did you find evidence of Prior medical intervention from Miss Hutchin yes a

nd what was that evidence of medical intervention of she um had been intubated um the intubation was actually in the wrong place it was in the esophagus it was removed when she arrived at the hospital but she was also reintubated into her esophagus and not into the airway um she had also had cical intervention so they had opened up the chest cavities on both sides due to the presence of a gunshot wound they had also opened up the protective covering surrounding the heart to try to do what would

they call U manual cardiac massage to restart the heart um it's my understanding that she was pulseless upon arrival and non-responsive and not breathing you said that she had a an intubation than another intubation is that right yes and they were both in the esophagus yes now an esophageal intubation can be a dangerous situation correct uh it's it's an ineffective um way to respir at someone or to establish air and in fact can can that potentially cause um an anoxic situation lack of oxygen to

the brain well the injury itself is what causes the anoxic situation but the intubation into the esophagus isn't um isn't giving adequate Airway establishment so the esophagal intubation do you know who performed that do you know who did that I do not the C CPR efforts you observed do you know who performed those um not off the top of my head no I would have to review the medical records based on everything that you saw as a medical doctor had this not taken an hour and a half had Miss Hutchins

received more timely medical intervention could she had possibly survive these wounds that's difficult for me to answer that question um because I'm not a I'm not aor doctor who treats gunshot wounds in the chest um and I have a very skewed view regarding The lethality of gunshot wounds so that's outside my purview when you were interviewed didn't you say she possibly could have survived potentially but I'm not the best person to ask for that question because I don't treat patients okay but you

previously had said that you acknowled that okay wow could she have been saved joining us in barington Rhode Island board certified forensic ologist Dr priia banery and in New Mexico tonight I never know how to say the name of the town I'm sorry uh Gary Gary Mitchell is with us that's all right all right um great to have you as well um doctor let me begin with you what was just described there with this intubation um do you think based upon what we were hearing here that had to be that was done

twice um that perhaps if it was done done correctly she would have been saved or she could have survived this I think that's very difficult because even if the breathing tube was in the right place so this is the endot tral tube the intubation tube that they're talking about she's still actively bleeding from her injuries right and so that total blood loss is what's going to deplete her brain of oxygen so it seems like I mean theoretic I think she could have helped I was shocked that it took an

hour and a half or what not to the resuscitation but I still think the severity of her injuries uh would make it a lot less likely I'm just again I'm just like Dr Gerald though I'm not an ER doc you know trauma surgeons are amazing so who knows right medicine advances I also have a skewed uh vision of how lethal gunshot wounds are because that's what we get um it just seems like the injuries themselves were very sign and I want to follow up on that time again that time is something the defense w

as really kind of zeroing in on if they have an expert comes and said that time could have cut in half or a third or could have been done in 20 minutes um would that potentially make a big difference here well you have to remember it's only two to three minutes of a lack of oxygen to the brain that makes irreversible brain damage so the rest of her body could still work but that lack of oxygen to the brain would be devastating and so you know how narrow can we get that window would be really cri

tical to hear from an a person who's an expert in the field again my general belief would be that it would be difficult to save her but again this is way outside my purview I'm there just like Dr Gerald to document the injuries and and interpret what caused her death all right Gary Mitchell let me ask you legally now it does this become an issue for the defense here and potentially for the defense of Alec Baldwin when he goes to trial the way um Helena was was treated by emergency workers at the

scene oh you bet it does it's a huge issue and an hour and a half uh keep in mind those jurors that are hearing this case know their Community know how quickly uh it takes to get from that area where this occurred to two excellent hospitals where you get excellent trauma help so this idea of an hour and a half is a real issue and then the second issue uh jurors lures uh think that if you commit some type of medical malpractice uh that that doesn't leave the patient in a good position for a trau

ma surgeon to save them that's uh a major impact on those jurors so look at it as what jurors are thinking absolutely now how about one other issue accidental versus an accident versus homicide in this case yeah is that going to make a difference gu in front of this jury hearing that word accident I see it as kind of like an accidental homicide myself well I do too and and that surprised me because uh uh the officers the medical investigator in New Mexico classically qualifies any uh death of a

human being by another human being as a homicide so to get an accident was a real break for the defense and now the defendant was going to get a jury instruction that's in which he's going to be able to argue uh on her behalf this has to be a willful disregard of the rights or safety of another uh and that's and then with everything it's his best argument is everything that could go wrong out there went wrong but nobody was at fault nobody intent intended anything and nobody acted willfully uh I

suspect we're going to hear those very words wow all right that's why we bring him in folks Gary Mitchell great to see you Dr priia banery appreciate your time tonight as well