Different Roads to Heaven | Religion Documentary | Full Movie

I was born and raised Catholic. Brought up in this denomination of Christianity, but even though I had friends that were Christian not all of them were Catholic. What separates us? What brings us together? It got me thinking, if we all believe in the same fundamental religion, then what makes us different? I'm starting my journey at the place I was brought up, St. Elizabeth Ann Seton Catholic Church. It was familiar to me. So, I thought it would be a good place to start. My name is father David

Hennen. I am 52 years old. I am Roman Catholic. If I'd give a summary, I would say Jesus Christ. The name of Jesus Christ. He is our Savior, our Redeemer, he came to this world to this earth to set us free from sin. To open the gates of heaven so that we could have salvation and the gift he offers to us as that gift of grace. And it's a free gift given to us so if I had to boil it down to be it's always proclaiming the name of Jesus Christ. That is Christianity for me. I'm father Michael Barsnes

s. I am well I am 33 now. well I'm a Catholic priest. I would say to be a Christian is to to be a follower of Christ and to be a disciple of Christ who lives walked in this world and came to reveal God to us. Came to reveal the father came to reveal the Holy Spirit. And you know it's both what we say what we do. Word you know both what Jesus did and said are important for us you know. As God made man you know he is are he's the Redeemer. He's the one who came to save us. And, and called us to li

ve a new life. A life that's transformed in his love, and really that that lives behind a spirit that he gave us. Through you know, his death and his resurrection and his ascension. Here after he ascended. He sent the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles. And we live, we try to live by the spirit. He also gave us a Church. Recognized as a Catholic. So, Jesus said on this rock I will build my Church. So, so to be part of the Church, to follow the teachings the Church hands down the living tradition and

scripture. You know, together we follow Christ. It's like, it's it's trying to live in Communion with Christ and His Church. A quick history? There's 2000 years. I would say, God appointed a time to send the Savior, Jesus Christ. He came roughly 2,000 years ago. He he walked this earth for about 33 years. During the last three years of his Ministry, he called the group of Disciples or Apostles together, and as he mentored them he formed and he taught them. Because he knew that he was not going t

o stay here forever. So, he ministered to them. Got them ready. He they didn't fully what they were getting into. But, it came to the point where after Jesus proclaiming who he was that he was the Savior. He was the son of God. He was persecuted, he was crucified. After his Crucifixion, he rose from the dead. He spent time again with his Apostles, Disciples after his Resurrection because he was going to go back to the Father in Heaven. So, during those those days, those few days of 40 days, thos

e 50 days. He spent for, uh remind them what is their mission. To go out that was his last words to his Apostles. Go out and proclaim the Gospel. Spread the good news. Make Disciples of all Nations. Since then that's what the followers of Christ have been doing. They've been going out throughout the whole world. Now, after Jesus ascended to his Father, he then. Those Disciples started forming the Church, the Catholic Church. And it's now been for 2,000 years at the Church has grown. There's been

ups and downs in the history of the church. Just in terms of what the Church has taught. It took a lot for let's say, two or three hundred years for us to get the actual teachings of the Church. Who is Jesus Christ, the Trinity, all those Dogmas that we believe to get them formed. Then, we have different histories of the parts of the history of the Church. Where there was religious groups being formed. Different religious orders, Popes, some not so good Popes, some very good Pope’s, some good m

en, some good women, throughout. And so that's been 2,000 years. And we still today continue to practice the Catholic faith with over I think one point two or three point three billion members of the Church. [Jacob] So, what's the basic run through of the history of the Catholic Church? Like the [Michael: ha] I know there is a lot there, but I guess you should go more into the beginnings. Obviously, it started with Jesus but. [Michael] Right. so uh, gosh, yeah. So, of the history of the Catholic

Church. Well, so yeah, that's a that's a big question. So, with Christ you had, you know, he established his Church. It, you know, starts to understand itself. You have these kind of underground Church. It's in houses, and but there's an app— you know the Apostolic you know since that just like st. Paul, is you know he's converted from Judaism. And he was a persecutor of the Christian, of Christian, Christianity. He was a Pharisee, who's the Pharisee of Pharisees. He was, studied under Gamaliel

. But you know one of the greatest Pharisees of his time. He studied under Gamaliel and St. Paul super intelligent. I mean probably one of the most intelligent of his time too. Knows. you know, Greek, he knows maybe he doesn't know Latin, but he knows Aramaic, and all these. He's very intelligent. Knows the law backwards, forwards. He knows the scriptures backwards and forwards. So, you know, the scriptures for Jews was the Old Testament. I mean that's that's I mean even Christians much of it, a

nd then you have these you know St. Paul's writing letters to and establishing Churches. but St. Paul so comes back to the Apostles, and says and lays out his own Gospel. Am i teaching correctly? you know he's part of the Old Jerusalem Council. Do you have to become Jew before you become a Christian? Do you have to follow all the Mosaic Laws? Do you have to be circumcised? And basically comes out and says, no. I mean the Apostles agree and they, you know but the reality is that there's that Apos

tolic, So, there's a there's a hierarchy that it's that the Spirit comes out from one place. And it but, there's also that structure there, as well. So, the Church spreads and persecuted. At least at first. Especially by the Jews. But then, it spreads. And it grows, you know in the in the Roman Empire. When you get more in Gentile Christians, and you have a lot of persecutions by by the Romans. By your Gentiles. That's a little bit more later on. That you have the kind of the era of the Church F

athers. This is the early church, was figuring out our understanding, our own faith. That's where we get our Doctrines of the Trinity. Our Doctrines of who Jesus is, you know. He's God, and man. Fully God, fully man. Not a mixture of the two. They're distinct, but they're they're one. And so, you had all these different. This, the Church really trying to understand it’s own faith. That's where we have these Councils. So you have many Councils especially the late 200s, 300s, especially. And so, u

nderstanding the Trinity. Understanding, you know the very basics of our faith. And then you know, this you know the great kind of flowering of the Church was in the Middle Ages I mean after the 300s, 400s, the Church is really expanding. And even though there’s, you know Rome kinda has it's kind of you know there's a lot of persecution all the way up until the Emperor Constantine. Until the Church, uh or the Church really kind of had its legitimacy. Martyrdom was kind of the ideal for a Christi

an. Actually, it was kind of one of those things that everybody wanted to be a martyr. So, there was kind of the ideal, because you wanted to give your heart your life for Christ. That was kind of the ideal. But then, when the Church became legitimate, then people wanted to give their heart and life to Christ. Then, they went and tried to become monks. Or, or more actually they were just Hermits. They wanted to go on the desert. Do battle with Satan. To give their life, their heart to Christ out

in the desert where they could, you know like Jesus went out with the desert fought Satan. So, there are those kind of this, you know flourishing of Christianity. The Monastery started, the Monasteries really kind of preserved a lot of basically civilization. There the you know that's where you're you're the beginning of your science started. Your, you know the Universities that flourished from the Monasteries. That before there was Universities or Monasteries that that kind of had the centers

of learning, and then they started then they started like things like the University of Paris, and other places. And that's when, you know faith and reason really started to flourish. And in a lot of a lot of ways that are modern economics even really started in those monastic times. And, so you really you had this great flourishing of the Church, and you know honestly it gets called the Dark Ages but I really think that's a misnomer. It's a it's a it's a propagandic notion the Middle Ages was t

his dark time. But actually it was like the science. You know, before the Enlightenment this was really kind of the the flourishing of scientific endeavor you know. Like you had all kinds of improvements to like I said economics, as well as farming, and agriculture. There's just so many so much to talk about there but I don't think it was as horrible as people would say. Crusades, and then kind of uh you know what we call the Inquisition. Which in fact I think it's a lot of bad rap as well. A lo

t of people think it's this horrible thing, but the reality is it's one of the most just. Many people who rather go to an inquisition rather than face kingdom justice, because kingdom justice is much more harsh much more brutal. As far as you know they're those the Secular courts were much more brutal than the Church courts in many ways. And so is rather I think there's a lot of propaganda that was put out about that and especially after the Enlightenment. There's a lot of hatred towards the Chu

rch trying to destroy the Church in the Enlightenment. So, the fifteen hundred's when we have Luther, and there's you get into the Protestant Reformation. Then, all you see is start splintering. From my perspective when I came Catholic I just started seeing there's there's thirty to forty plus thousand denominations now today. You know, Christians who don't believe any of the same things. Like we have some core beliefs like in Christ's Divinity, the Trinity, but then it started splintering off f

rom there. You really don't have any a lot of agreements on things. So, Luther began that partly because of his main Doctrines of Faith alone and Scripture alone. Like he got rid of the idea of tradition of the whole interpretation of Scripture through the centuries. Understanding the Bible, and our faith. You know, see kind of cut that all out and went straight to the Bible. And so there's a whole tradition of going back just to the Bible itself comes from that kind of the Renaissance of of res

ource mount going back to the sources. But I think it partly because he misunderstood a lot of his own teaching. The teaching wasn't very good in his time. And and and neither was the state of the Church. I mean that was the biggest things the recognition of the the brokenness of our humanity. That you know what I realized you know when I became Catholic as was the reality of Christ established a Church to preserve us in the true faith of Christ. We recognize that faith and morals are the two th

ings that the Church teaches infallibly. And, and so our faith our understanding of God. Our understanding of our faith. All the different Doctrines and Dogmas are infallible. Are there, you know it's what God has given to the, you know. He said, Peter on this rock I will build my Church. But he also said to his Apostles, I'll give you the Holy Spirit to lead you. and guide you, into all truth and he calls them to be one as I and the father are one. and St. Paul says, be of one mind, one heart,

you know be in agreement. You know that that where was that the important part of that our Catholic identity is that we're called to that one oneness in mind and heart and teaching. So, our faith and morals. God's leading us and guiding us. And, you know I saw the splintering I was like, how is this led by the Holy Spirit? You know? Especially when we you know we can't agree on some of the fundamental basics of our faith. Especially the Eucharist, and we can't agree on that that's essential teac

hing. And so, who's right? You can’t. It's either Jesus or it's not. I saw the Scripture as I just talking about John 6 pretty clearly Jesus teaching that at least you know from what we understand is that it's the Eucharist. And, from 15 for 1,500 years the I forget the the Holy Roman Emperor who who one who presided over asking Luther. He basically said, for so I cannot believe that the Church has been wrong for fifteen hundred years to Luther. How who are you to say after all this time. So, re

cognizing that the Church and its goodness and its teachings, that is what makes the Papacy important and infallible. But we recognize also though there is a human element to everything. That our humanity can still sin and so can our Bishops. It doesn't just because I'm ordained, it doesn't mean, doesn't mean I can't sin. That there's a simple, you know look at Peter. Look at the Disciples. They doubted the Lord, you know. Even after Peter, you know the Lord Ascended and everything.. Paul rebuke

s Peter. He's a sinful man. Get behind me Satan. In great line where Jesus says, you know after rebuking Peter, after he made that great profession of faith. But it's our faith, you know the teachings that we recognize are the infallible part of our faith as well as the Sacraments that we have been handed down too. So, the Reformation kind of shakes all of that up, and really we have this splintering. Which is an unfortunate scandal. I think that Christ wants us to be unified, and wants us to be

one. And I think that's an important that we call, you know invite and we dialogue about you know these these fundamental truths of our faith. So, and to help other people understand. Because, I think most people are just, you know don't know anything about Catholicism. They don't know where where their faith came from. They don't know their their Church history, you know. I don't think that that st. John Henry Newman said, to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant. Is to be Catholic.

Is to really understand that Christ established something that's forever, you know. It's the fundamentals. I was Baptized into the Catholic faith. That's all I knew. But I grew up in a small farming community, and it was all Catholic. That's just who we were. So, Baptized Catholic, raised Catholic. I went to University of St. Thomas, for my degree in Computer Science. I was still practicing my faith at this point. It wasn't until a little bit later on around 29, when I got a call from God. And I

discerned that call to the Priesthood. So, then I spent six years in the Seminary learning to be a Catholic Priest. What it meant to be a Catholic Priest, and be able to say yes to that. And, so I've been a Priest now for 13 years. So, it yes, no I didn't have a choice in terms of my Baptism. My parents had me Baptized. But, it's just been Who I am. I I'm Catholic. And I've never second-guessed that ever. Well, I already kind of get, hinted at it. The Eucharist. Was the big thing. Is recognizin

g that Jesus established the Sacrament of the Eucharist. You realize that, you know it's really his body and blood. And praying before the Blessed Sacrament. But also, just, you know just that I studied it. It was that everybody, you know I saw it. I also saw the event where John six where everybody leaves Jesus on his teaching of the Eucharist. That it's really his body and blood. How I saw how the Reformation was a similar similar event. They left Jesus on a particular teaching. That was like,

wow. Jesus stood his ground. Said, this is it, and then he didn't call them back. And I was like, where is the truth of the Eucharist. Really the Orthodox and Catholic Church are the only ones that really hold this truth. And so, it was really coming to know the truth of the Eucharist. And, then then seeing the need for an authority on Earth that Christ established a Church. I didn't know that, you know. I didn't know that that was real, you know. If God is all-powerful, all-knowing, you know.

He he doesn't make mistakes. Where did the mistake come from? That we have all this division and splintering. And I realized it wasn't from God. God intended us to be one. And that's why he established a Church. So, I had to become Catholic, you know fairly quickly on. I was Sophomore in College when I became Catholic. My roommate said, you should stop dating. You should think about the Priesthood. Kind of Prophetic looking back I guess. I'm like, well, no way. Basically, so yeah. It's just kind

of little story aside, how I became a Priest. I never intended to ever think about Priesthood until that point. And then I was like no way. I was dating a girl at the time. She's Protestant. Didn't work out obviously. So yeah. I think if there be probably not disbelief. But sometimes I didn't understand. I would say not until my probably my 20s. When I started my faith was my own. After going to College you start wondering, well what do I believe? Because this is always what my parents have bel

ieved in. What I was raised and taught. But now, on my own I had to make that decision for myself. So, there are many moral issues in the Church, in the world today. That I had to understand. I didn't know why the Church taught what it did. So, I had to do a lot of investigation. A lot of research. Asking questions, and prayer. So, I would say I've never disbelieved. I just didn't always understand. And so I would always see what is the truth. Hesitations about just whether I believe or not or?

[Jacob] yes. [Michael] I mean, yeah I mean I think it's I mean there's different definitely been times or like where are, where are you Lord? Especially early on in my faith, you know. Your faith begins, you know begins very young you're growing, and you're, you're just not sure about a lot of things. That's where I had to do a lot of research, you know. I had to do a lot of things to really sure up my faith. I think that that's a great guidance. I went through Apologetic things, you know. Thing

s I had, you know, I questioned whether God existed. Kind of went through that time. So, I did a lot of research, and I found that that, you know. I really started to come to know that I actually had been, and I had guidance from someone that pointed me good resources. Okay, and I, you know Catholic Answers among many. Case for Faith I remember reading. A great book. I think, Lee Strobel, Case for Christ was another one he wrote. I read those and just kind of through the intellectual process of,

okay God is real. Where does, how does something come from nothing? Okay, you know that the Big Bang is a Theory. And it's alright. It's actually even helps us in our understanding of that. We have a beginning, and you know the recognition that something can't come from nothing. And so, part of it was like as Saint Peter says, and I think Second Peter, is like, you know supplement your faith with virtue. But also, knowledge. Knowledge. You gotta have knowledge in order to supplement your faith.

To build it up, you know. And self-control and all of that. So, is that knowledge really helped a lot, you know. And through Seminary, man I'm so grateful for my Philosophy degree, you know. Just that are the Philosophy that I received at st. Thomas. And Philosophy is just so necessary these days. Because, of you know it's the foundation of our understanding of the world. It helps us to to firm our understanding where our thought comes from. Because thinking, you know we just think all the time

but we don't know where our ideas, and how they're where they're from, you know. Certain sets are, you know there's a different kind of thinking of the world in Ancient Times. Different kind of thinking in Medieval Times. And, there's different kind of thinking. And it kind of forms how we see the world. And, it was just so helpful to have that Philosophical training, because it really shows where modern times are, contemporary times, have come from. And, and I can see the error of way the way

we think. So, so many things. you know. They're, there have been definitely times of maybe not doubt. Blessed Cardinal Newman says that, you know, a thousand difficulties does not equal one doubt. You know, doubt it's kind of a refusal to believe. So. I can understand why people would look at Catholics and say, this seems to be over the board, over at the top. You know, because I see them like looking at her statue and praying or praying the rosary. And then, that I would just say that our love

of Mary, our devotion to Mary, is more about just honoring who she is. That she's the mother of Jesus Christ. She's the one that taught Jesus. She was with Jesus. raised him. and loved him. Taught him the faith, taught him the Jewish faith. And all that. So, we owe great honor and respect to her. She is not a god. She is not Jesus Christ. She's not our Savior. We see Mary as someone who prays for us, who intercedes for us. We pray to Mary asking, bring our knees to your son. It doesn't mean we d

on't we still pray to Jesus, obviously. He's our Savior. But Mary is, she's very tender she's very loving, and I think some people can be a little bit afraid of going to God. Because, they're afraid of God. Mary is a little bit easier person to go too. Mary's role, is always to bring us to Jesus Christ. If Mary is leading us away from Jesus Christ, you don't have a good devotion to Mary at all. Mary would be disappointed if we started loving her more than loving her son. Her whole goal in life w

as to bring every single person not just Catholics, every single person to her son, Jesus Christ. Because he is a source of our grace. He is our Savior. Absolutely, Mary doesn't say a lot in the scriptures. She's mentioned. And, but you know it's it's something very ancient, and it's something very beautiful. If you really get to know the roots of Mary devotion, and just the little bit that is said about Mary. If you understand it really well, you start to see there's more to it then kind of at

first glance. And, we see in the Annunciation where Mary, the Angel, God, appears to Mary. You know, this waiting upon her, yes. That's the sense, that you will conceive and bear a son. And he will save us from our sins. Mary's role in saying yes to God, and gives the you know, God, you know, wants to use her. She doesn’t, she doesn’t, not. She gets a decision in that. But the, you know there's an already sense that, you know. It says in the Greek there's an understanding that she's already conc

eived. She's already, she's already full of grace. This is where we understanding of freedom from sin. There's the Greek it says, you've already received grace. So, she like, she's full of grace, and there's no one else called full of grace. There's an all readiness to the word in the Greek that I can't even say its kev keratin monoi. It's like an already receive this grace. She's already filled with God's grace and love. And, she's the pure vessel for the Savior. And, and she gets to say yes to

God. She's able to say yes to God more than anyone else. But then she's there at key moments. See her especially there at the Cross. We believe that she has, you know she was given to us on the Cross. You know, that even in when Jesus gives and says take he says, he takes him, takes her into his home. There's a sense that he takes her into his being. In a certain sense that, he's taking him into himself kind of a kind of a spiritual mother and that Mary plays a role of motherhood. But also, tha

t consent to Jesus's Cross. She consents to yes, to God when she conceives God in her own womb. She also consents at the end. There's so many things to talk about with Mary. But she's the new Eve, that reverses the no. The selfishness of Eve. So, she's the new Eve just as Jesus is the new Adam. But she's still human being, and God wants to use her to bring about his Salvation. And, but she consents to that, and she does so in such a perfect way. We say without sin, you know. And, she's able, wit

hout sin there's nothing that holds her back from receiving and saying yes fully. You know, that sin is what ultimately keeps our hearts are darkened. Our hearts are, you know way from totally consenting to God. So, that's our process. We're working through our Salvation. You know, we're working with God. The grace that God gives us. Where Mary, she's just a open she's a vessel. She's totally open to what God wants to do in her life. And so, that's the importance of Mary. Is that she's also thou

gh given to us as a mother. It's a great call to call Mary a mother and she's a model for us as the perfect Christian. To really receive Christ as she did. I probably choose Moses. And, I think because when God called him to go into Egypt. To, to bring out all the Israelites from slavery, he told God, I don't think I can do that. I don't I just can't do that. I'm not good at speaking, and all that stuff. I can, I can relate to that, because when I was called to the priesthood, I initially told G

od, I can't do this. I I'm not good at speaking. I just don't think I have the gifts to do that. So, I had this this doubt. But, yet I trusted God, and was able to do that. Moses too was able too, by being, okay God I'll go do this. And, he went to Pharaoh and and you know the rest of the story. How he lead the people out of Egypt, and then wandering the desert with the Israelites. How they were complaining about whatever the food or just lack of water. And so, I can also relate to him as far as

a Pastor. Sometimes Parishioners not always understanding or knowing where we're going or the path that we're on. So yeah, I think it would have to be Moses by far. I definitely like Elijah. Kind of like Elijah and David. David and Elijah. Like Elijah, talk about a guy that stood up in the midst of everyone else went off you know and served Baal. And all the other gods. And he alone stands in the midst kind of in the he's like Christ figure. Stands, stands for the truth of God, you know. That f

ire coming down, you know. It's like gosh. What a test of faith. You know, but he's there he stood there he stood for God. And then, God proved and what a powerful figure I think. It’s, it's rather intense. what I. When I got my call, I already had my four year degree in Computer Science. But in order to enter the make of the Seminary. To become the formation. You have to have a Philosophy degree. So I had to do two years of Philosophy, and then I did four years of Theology. So, six years of gra

duate work. So, it required six straight years of college, of graduate level work. So, when you learn how to Canon Law, the history of the Church, Scripture, Preaching, Liturgy. All that I need to know. And even within six years, I still have that I did not learn everything. I've been a Priest for thirteen years, and I'm still learning about my faith. And all the history of the Church. I keep on learning more things, constantly. Because, there is so much out there in the history, the writings of

the Saints. The writings of the Popes, that I can take and learn. The other thing about Seminary life is you're living with the other guys who are training to be a Priest. So, they're also forming us at how to be a better human. So, it's not just the head knowledge. It's also who am I as a human being. Do I have those human virtues? Am I kind? Because if I'm a crabby Priest, how am I gonna help people come to Christ if I'm crabby? How can I be the sign of Christ. So the human formation. How do

I become more virtuous? Learning about Celibacy, because obviously I'm not married. I choose to be celibate for the Kingdom. so I'm not married, I don't have a family. But how to be? How do I have a shepherd's heart? How do I be pastoral to people? I have to be able to help people in coming to Christ. So, if somebody comes up to me in a situation where they're having a bad day, and I have to be able to to listen, to engage them. In so we learn all that in Seminary. They. they help us practice th

at. They send us off to a Parish for four years. So that we're interacting with people and the lives of a Parish. That we get a sense of what it is. And our last year, you're ordained a Deacon. So, you get to do some of the things. You get to Preach. You to do some other things before you're actually ordained a Priest. The life in a Seminary, every year at the end of the year you get voted on. So, you have a team of people that are following, that are journeying with you. At the end of the year,

they vote, yes or no. Should we allow this man to go on to the next year? If it's yes. Then you accepted that the Church is said okay, go on. If they say no, we don't think you're called. Then you accept that as as the Church's decision. Now obviously you, when you go to that vote. You've been warned, or you been they've been giving you warnings. If you're not doing so well academically, or maybe they just want you to take some time off. To spend some time in a Parish. Or to discern more. And,

they may ask you just to wait before you go on to the next year. But it's a, it's a call the Church's response to your call. I can't just go to the Seminary and say, hey I want to be a Priest. No, it doesn't work that way. I can have a feel that I have a call. But the Church still has to say yes to that. So I'm trusting that Christ, the Holy Spirit is working through the Church before I'm actually ordained a Priest. Majority of it was about following the law. The law given to us. Especially the

10 Commandments. Whereas when the New Testament is about Jesus Christ, he came to - to fulfill the law. Meaning, to give us a life of grace, a life of mercy. That it's not just about following the law. It's about loving and then do great commands. Love God, love thy neighbor. So, it's not that he, we got rid of a law. It's more the fulfillment of it. We're, the law helps us to love. If you're living your life just based on the law, I don't find much freedom in that. Just following the rules. I f

ind freedom in allowing Jesus Christ to help me to love, to love my God, and to love our neighbor. You got to be 25. But, so Priesthood. Man. Well right now, I mean there's been a lot of reform. Especially in the in the Church about how to become a Priest. You know, the you have to be at least 25. But obviously a man. Because we're configured to Christ. We as Catholics, we believe that maleness and femaleness means something. That God doesn’t, you know that recognize that there's a movement out

there now that, wants to say there's no difference, you know. But we do say that there are roles of our masculinity and femininity. That they're real. They're real difference between men and women. And then we were made that way. And that, you know, that there's a you know, women they're a feminine Marion role. And then, maleness. And that Jesus, God became a real person. He became a man for a reason. But we also represent Christ amidst his by the Church in which we're all in a certain sense we

represent Christ. We make present Christ. But within the Church, Christ established twelve Apostles were all male. None of, you know it's not like Mary Magdalene or anyone else was made a Priest. His Priesthood was handed down and it's our understanding is that we we've received this. It's something that was revealed to us. We don't get to make up, you know part of our Catholic faith, we don't you know, we don't take you know something that's outside of what we've been revealed. So, Pope St. Joh

n Paul the Second has said, we have no power or authority to say anything the Scriptures don’t. We don't have it. We don't have the authority to ordain women in our understanding of our Theology is recognizing the Church as the Bride of Christ. That there's a femininity to all of the Church and that men ordained are configured to Christ. As, as the Bridegroom. There's uh, a bride, you know that Jesus called himself the Bridegroom. You don't fast when the Bridegroom is with you. Because God has a

lways seen himself as the Bridegroom chasing after his unfaithful bride. Say, the Israelites were unfaithful over and over and over. And then, Jesus calling himself also the Bridegroom. Going, you know and his Church, the bride. Which represented obviously fully by Mary, as the bride. You know, that she is she represents the whole Church at the Cross. So, there's this this beautiful gift of the Bridegroom dying for his bride. And the Priest is to give up his life in sacrificial love for his brid

e. For the bride of the Church. The Church is his bride. That's why then those are since that's why married priesthood is a little bit Theologically difficult. There, it exists. It's possible. But it's it's not as Theologically rich. And, you know the Church does recognize it's possible for for a married Priesthood. But, it's not a deal I think Theologically, because of that desire to give your whole life to the bride of the Church. So, our understanding of Priesthood is that that gift. And, so

there that, you know we're made for Communion. You know, that's you know we're made in the image and likeness of God. And we're all made to be Communion with other people. And, and with the Lord that answers it I think. I'd probably pick the Gospel of John. It's where as I like Matthew, Mark, and Luke, in terms of the stories and the parables that Jesus tells they're wonderful. John goes at a deeper level as far as who Jesus is. In his relationship to the Father and Father in heaven. And their t

heir relationship is very profound and beautiful. So I guess if I had to pick I would pick the Gospel of John. [Michael] Which of the Scriptures? [Jacob] Yes. [Michael] Oh okay. Oh, oh I mean the Gospels. We stand for the Gospels, right. We stand for, you know Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Because they're the written words. in the Old Testament the Jews had the five, you know the five books. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, all those the five books. Those were a high held highe

r than the rest, but, you know for us it's the Gospels. You know, the life of Christ. Oh my favorite? I don't know. I really love John. But you can't go wrong with Mathew either I'm a big fan of Paul, St. Paul. [Jacob] So, of all the lessons that Jesus taught his disciples which one do you think is the most important? [David] There's a number of parables they tell us about mercy and forgiveness. I think one of my favorite parables is the parable of the prodigal son. The son who goes away. Takes

all his father's inheritance, spends it, realizes he made a mistake. Goes back to the Father, and then going back to the Father we see the father and how he reacts to both the younger son, and the elder son. And there's such a great story about how I think both many of us can relate to the younger son, and the older son. But really, the focus of the story is on the father who gives mercy, who gives forgiveness, and that is what we are all called to be. We're called to be people who love. Who are

giving mercy. Who are giving forgiveness. And you'll see that message of forgiveness and mercy in a number of parables that Jesus taught us. Because, our God is a God of great mercy. Who of us hasn't sinned? And we're in need of God's mercy. So, we see that gift but then we have to be be able to give that gift to others. I mean, his main mission was to come to reveal the Father. So, to bring us into Communion with the Holy Trinity in God. So, I mean that the love that Christ has for us. I mean

the the teaching that he has is this the key. Is not necessarily our teachings, you know it's it's definitely the Cross. Maybe the seven words of him on the Cross, you know was that he's giving himself totally for us, you know. For God so loved the world that he sent his own Son to die for our sins, and we might have eternal life. You know, that whole the reality of the Cross I think would be the key teaching is the love of God. In the revelation of God as love. True love, of course. Recognizing

the sacrificial love of dying for others, right. Just as though recognizing that love is not an emotion that we feel and it's real. It's it's desiring the good of others. It's a choice. It's a, you know it's something that's dying on behalf doesn't necessarily feel good. The one I go back to especially when I speaking to people like my Church and my Parish. All those last words that Jesus said before he left us, because I'm assuming that Jesus would give us some of the most important advice bef

ore he went back to his Father in Heaven. And that is to go and make Disciples of all nations. That is the essential message of Christianity. Is to make Disciples. To spread the good news. I can't imagine being a part of religion that says, well I'm not sure if our if our faith, if what we believe is not good news. So we maybe you don't want to go tell others about it. It's exact opposite, we are called to go and tell the good news. Bring others into a the fold. If I'm and I do believe Jesus Chr

ist is our Savior. He came to set us free. If I truly believe that, why would I not want to tell others about that. That's that would be the one message that I would give, to everyone. That he desires to make all people Christian. In modern society is the same role it always had. To bring people to Christ. To bring people to God. And to help them to understand their their life in him. That they are loved. I think that the Church doesn't hasn't really I mean it might change in its method. Or it's

at least like, you know using technology. Or yeah, we might change in how it does that. But it's still the same role it always has. I mean it’s, you know we serve the poor because of our love for Christ. And trying to tell these people about Christ. You know, we serve because Christ loves. We, you know loves them. That's the role of the Church. A bridge to connect people to God. People don't come to Church just because, well some might do that, but they don't the Church is not the endpoint or t

he goal. Our goal, is is Salvation. And at least Christians it is Heaven. So the Church serves as that avenue, or that bridge to get there. So they come to the Church to be fed by God's Word. To be to receive to see the grace of Jesus Christ in the Sacraments. But to be in Communion with other people. It's so, it's not, it's not the end. It's just an avenue or bridge to get to that point of Salvation. But that’s, I think some point some people believe that the Church is the be-all end-all. Uh, n

o it's not. It is just that that means to encounter Christ. To bring us to that goal of Heaven. Which is where we want to go. [Jacob] You gotta pick one impact. That's the greatest. [Michael] I mean I think that that sometimes we look at this service that the Church does. But I think it's just the the most kind of invisible kind of changing of heart. And you can't really kind of quantify that. Because it's hearts, souls that are changed. And, I think that when somebody comes to know the love of

Christ in a real way, that that is the biggest impact on anything. And that really, that's the most important thing. Because sometimes we want to look at, okay we serve so many poor people, but I mean did. Or we did all this stuff. I think that, you know unless they're changed, once they come to know Christ and in a deeper way that that's kind of periphery. You know, that stuff kind of, you know that won't change the world. It's hearts that change. You know, that every soul we can bring to Chris

t to save is our goal. Catholic Church is a great history of reaching out being a source of mercy and compassion. The Catholic Church is known for education, setting up the college system. The Catholic Church is known for reaching out in terms of providing for the physical needs. Setting up hospitals. Some of our greatest Saints have been Saints of men and women who have been Missionaries to the poor. The most recent one is St. Teresa of Calcutta, well known for her love of the poor. Just to bri

ng the Gospel message. But how would they do that? They would do that by caring for them. Giving them food caring for them when they're dying, providing clothes & through that witness of the Gospel. They can introduce the name of Jesus, or the person of Jesus Christ to people. So I would think our biggest impact it's just in terms of the community. Had been, has been our outreach to those around the fringes. And you don't even have to be Christian or Catholic for us to be to Minister to you. Any

body, because we're all created in the image of God. So, I would say community. But also, I think just to be a presence. A sense of hope in the midst of the community. That okay, I like for myself, I wear this this these clothes. People know that I'm a Catholic Priest and I wear this in public. I don't do it to show off, I don't do to get attention, I just so that to let people know that I'm a Catholic Priest. I'm not ashamed of it. I'm proud of it. And it causes them to think, and I'm hoping th

at both Catholics, and all Christians would never be afraid to stand out to people. To be a witness. Whether it's prayer, or how you care for people. Just how you interact with people it's just so they see basic common respect. Gosh. Other denominations, like it's kind of a broad question. I mean, I mean we look at them as brothers and sisters of Christ. We maybe say that maybe they've been misinformed. Or, you know they don't know a lot of you know part of where we stand. They sometimes, we, yo

u know might not see eye to eye on things. Because they, yeah I think, I think that, you know as Catholics we believe that we have the fullness, you know. That Jesus has handed on to us through the gift of the Holy Spirit. And the power of that it continues to lead us. And that it's not that we, you know we don’t, you know want to share with our brothers and sisters. We do want to share that with them. And so we want to continue and open that dialogue. To hope, you know that they, part of it's l

ike. you know we have it. The truth. And not that we want to look down on them, or anything. They just maybe not know. You know? It's part of, you know we all, I grew up in the Lutheran, I didn't know anything. I didn't know God until people told me about God. I mean just like, you know we kind of grew up in in these, you know in what we know. And the reality of, you know it's it's it's a complicated reality that we live in. But yeah, it's it's our desire to share the fullness that Jesus wants t

o reveal to us. Too, to all people. It's part of the the reality though. It comes our faith comes with lots of we call rules. Because it's just like, well if a river doesn't have banks. Goes all over. It's not really a river, you know. It's part of the, their idea that Christ you know gave us these gifts. And, you know it's part of regulates it guides us down down the path of we're called too. You know keeps us safe. Keeps us in the truth. I believe that all Christians. Denominations. Um, have a

role to play. Now obviously, I'm gonna be biased because I believe that what the Catholic Church offers is wonderful, awesome. But I would never say that other Christian denominations don't have a role to play. I believe they they can serve people in terms of bringing them to Christ. There's some Christian, many Christian denominations there in terms of like preaching and they're studying the Word of God is wonderful. And, amazing how they, how they do that. And how they bring people to the Chu

rch. So I would never say that they don't have a role to play. I would say that they do have a role to play. I'm all hoping and praying that someday we can all be united. Which is what Christ wants. We're not there yet. But I think slowly the Churches hopefully can work together. Because in the end what is our goal? To bring everybody to Christ. Absolutely every single person to Christ. So they can accept Christ as their Savior, and to dwell our with Lord forever in Heaven. But that's that's our

goal I think we all share that together. Just down the street with St. Philip's Lutheran Church. It seemed like the most logical place to go next. My name is pastor Greg Geier. I am 55 years old. I am blessed to serve in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. I would describe Christianity as gathering of believers around God's Word. And the Sacraments and Fellowship seeking respond to the grace that God has bestowed to us manifest and the life death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Within

Christendom, I don't think that there's any a denomination that has the same significance of the notion of the hierarchy in the Church. Where there is the ultimate responsibility or authority of the Pope, by comparison within our denomination the congregation's or each have much greater autonomy. Although we do have Bishops that help facilitate the call process. But within Catholicism there is a much higher degree of both responsibility and authority within both the Priesthood and the Papacy. I

n in Church hierarchy I would say that comparing ourselves to others on the big things there this much that we have in agreement in terms of our dependence on salvation in Jesus Christ. And we have this much about which we have disagreements. But we are not competing with any other Christian denomination at all. We are, I think in all trying to witness the love of Christ. As we understand and manifest in fulfilling our mission that way. It's within Lutheranism it started out as a protest movemen

t. That is, we have the word Protestant back in 1517 with Martin Luther wanting to lift up some issues that he felt were unjust within Catholicism. He was seeking to reform it. Not necessarily turnout for it to be dividing denomination. But as it turns out, that's what happened. And the crux of the matter is that we are saved by God's grace alone, through faith alone, and Scripture alone. Is serves in our guiding principles but that is not to say that other denominations don't believe in God's g

race. Or the necessity of faith, or on Scripture. On some of those things, you know. Are things that we can discuss and debate that it is not a matter of me being worried about the Salvation of the Catholic or Baptists or any of those things. We strive to be faithful as the Spirit enables us in our faith journeys. Well it would have to start with Martin Luther. Who was Augustinian Monk, and in 1517 after witnessing what he perceived to be abuses within Roman Catholicism, namely the misuse of Ind

ulgences to give people the impression that they could purchase forgiveness. And also purchased to get their deceased loved ones out of Purgatory. And plus give you like a guarantee to not get out of Purgatory. He saw that as an abuse. And not relying on God's grace and giving people a false sense of that. And wishing to discuss that at the time it was a very big moneymaker within Roman Catholicism. But things escalated to the point where he was excommunicated and the Protestant Reformation was

started. And there were many other Protestants reformers as well that participated. Then following, they're those that preceded him as well. In large part due to the fact that the Gutenberg Press was invented and the things that he wrote were able to be quickly disseminated. The equivalent of what we would have Facebook things went viral back there in the early 1500s and things were spread. And he also, one of the greatest things I think was to translate Scripture into the German language. That

so that people could read it. And one of his stresses was that peasant with the Word of God, was more powerful than a Pope without it. And wanting to get the Word of God into the hands of the people in the language that they spoke was a priority. And that happened while he was sort of in exile at the Wartburg Castle. As when he was still an under threat of death from both the Emperor and the Papacy. He did not want to have a Church named after him. He thought that that was entirely wrong. He sai

d people should just be called Christian, and leave it at that. And initially the term Protestant was seen as derogatory. And it came to be embraced in the same way that being called a Lutheran was seen as an insult. And it came to be embraced, and over centuries that's how folks within the admired Luther's teachings. But I want to be clear we have never worshipped Luther. He says some things that we have had to recant. And he's very much a sinner in need of God's Redemption. And he was always v

ery much aware of that as well. I was raised Lutheran. Although early on I was in the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church. Which is another denomination within Lutheranism. My parents became members of a charter a brand-new congregation. We were in San Diego and got to be a part of that. And felt in my own journey to see the love of Jesus working in that community of faith. And within that denomination and like I say, the Church is whole in whether it be as an organization or individuals in need of f

orgiveness and continual direction. But for me, it was, I was raised in that and came to see how God works in and through this particular denomination. That my gifts and calling were to serve in that denomination. If I had been raised Methodist, there's a probably a good chance that I I was to be a Pastor it would be in the Methodist Church. Or along those lines. So, I can't say that at the time that I came from the outside to appreciate the gifts. Oh many, while I was in college. That congregat

ion that my parents helped start ended up folding. And I was very attached to that congregation of the people there. And it was no longer sustainable. And I sort of was very, they became a really idolatry of that congregation. Rather than a worshipping of God. And when that congregation folded, I really said, well I'm done. If your, God, if you're gonna let my congregation these people that I'd love and this is where I grew up and was a part of it. And it was, well I was, involved in Lutheran Ca

mpus Ministry, and in college that the Pastor there really helped me to understand the body of Christ is much larger than that congregation or that building where we were gathering. And that God was still active in the lives of those who were faithful in just different ways. And being able to play into different congregations really helped broaden my understanding of God's working in the world. And there are often times, there are any number of times happen when we are faced with the enormity of

evil and we wonder. And we are called to trust yet as people of the Cross that God is manifest where we least expected. We would never expect to see Almighty God suffering and dying upon a Cross. Yet that is where God's love for us is most visible. So during those times of challenge, we come back to the Cross. Always to the Cross. And see our Savior there and God's love for us revealed within the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. The general route is to have an Undergrad Degree of any, in

any discipline. I happen to have been a Business Major going up when I was in restaurant management prior to going to Seminary. But there are every majors from Chemistry Majors, to Church History Majors, to English Majors, Political Science. It does not really matter the Undergrad. And then Seminary is a four-year Graduate Degree. Where there are two years of classroom academics, a third year which is an internship, where the students go and essentially work in a Church underneath the supervisi

ng Pastor. Under the supervision of a Pastor that has experience. And sort of get on-the-job training as it were. To sort of figure out where their gifts and passions really lie within the context of Ministry. And then, there's a fourth year back at the Seminary of academics, to kind of bring it all back together. There are some alternate plans now for people who are second career and older and have the degree that they can get things done a little bit more press but I'm not really familiar with

what program that you know what all is involved in that. I wouldn't be the right one to speak to that. As I understand it, and within our context Lutheran the Church is the Assembly of believers gathered or around Word and Sacrament. So the Church is not a building. It is the group of people, and it has continued to witness the love of Jesus Christ in their vocations. Whether it be as a Pastor. or a Teacher, or a Filmmaker. That our relationship with God affects how we live our lives and sharin

g that love of God and witnessing that love and all that we say and do. That again others may come to know that there is, they are precious and they they are children and there is hope and Salvation in Jesus Christ. And hopefully they see that in the way we live our lives and in our witness and our words and our deeds. And that's for every man woman and child that gathers as part of the Church. And we come here and seek forgiveness because we don't always do a very good job of that. But witnessi

ng our need for forgiveness and knowing where we can get it is as part of what we can witness as the Church. As well feel very blessed within the context of Hastings, particularly there's very strong Ministerial Alliance. And there are Congregations and Denominations that are much more conservative and there's other more liberal. Then, st. Philips we I sort of see ourselves in the middle. I am blessed to serve people that are very very conservative, and some that are very very liberal. And yet,

we can all gather under this roof, realizing that each one of us is one drop in a bucket full of sinners. And and all needing God's love and forgiveness. I feel very thankful to have the colleagues that I have. I have never met another Christian, whether it be more conservative a little bit more liberal than I am that God can't use to strengthen my relationship with Jesus. And I think it's especially where that we do support one another even where there are disagreements. That we can see that, y

ou know God is working in through all of these communities of faith. And trust in that. Rather than presuming that this is the only way. Is we need to maintain that humility to know that God's bigger than us. [Jacob] So how would you compare the Old Testament to the New Testament? [Greg] Well, the word become flesh in Jesus becomes the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies that are always looking for the Messiah The Anointed One of God to save and deliver the world. And within the context

of Israel, and even during Jesus time, it was hard to see God working in that way. And one of my favorite quotes from Martin Luther is that, apart from Jesus, God and Satan are indistinguishable to us. Jesus becomes God, doing God to us, and Jesus is the manifestation and revelation of God's ultimate act of love and saving the world. For us and it Jesus is our hope. We believe Jesus to be the Messiah of God. Whereas are those other books of the religions of the word, the Muslim, and Judaism beli

eve that Jesus was a great guy. Wonderful teacher, but not the Savior of the world. For us, Jesus is the Savior of the world. He is our own, we have no hope of salvation apart from Jesus Crucifixion and Resurrection. That has brought us, redeemed us. I don't think that you could take a single look and say that it is complete. We all have our favorite verses, and within the context even within the Gospels there are things in each of the Gospels that we would want to do. Without, if we had to say

if this is the only Gospel I can say that you know my favorite Gospel is the Gospel of Mark. It sure and it's because the Disciples don't come off looking really good in Mark. And I think that if God can use this bunch of folks to accomplish what God does, then maybe God can use the likes of me. But I would not be willing to say that if I only had one book, I would really have to reflect a lot more on that. I'm thinking it would have to be one of the Gospels. But in each of that, God speaks thro

ugh all of them. And through Paul's letters, as well Paul's letters to the Romans specifically. Is, we've been very formative in my own faith journey. But I I don't want to be without all of them. Even the parts that make me uncomfortable. Because, that's where the Holy Spirit's working to help my faith grow. I would say that there is absolutely no one beyond the love or grace of God. And that Jesus came to save the world. That the Scripture was written, and Jesus came That we might have faith t

hat all people they know that they are loved and precious in the eyes of God. I think I would have to go with the character of Jonah, or Jeremiah. And Jonah nearly because clearly Jonah seeks to be a person of faith. And God just doesn't work the way Jonah thinks God should work. And God's mercy is the people that generally doesn't think to deserve God's mercy. And that's a great witness anytime I think that somebody is beyond the love of God if that ever were to happen and I pray it doesn't Jon

ah is a good reminder that God's mercy is for all people. And Jeremiah because throughout his entire Ministry he never saw one tangible bit of evidence that his Preaching or his Ministry really made a difference. And there's so much in Ministry whether it be Preaching a Sermon, or walking where you don't know how God may be working through you. But you trust that somehow, someway God is either working through you, or in spite of you. That God's will is done. And hopefully God's love is his witne

ss and shared that people are drawn closer to a relationship with God. [Jacob] So what would be your favorite quote from the Bible? [Greg] That they're there just really too many. What then can separate us from the The love of God. And it says, know all these things we are more than conquerors through him who saved us. Romans chapter 8. [Jacob] I’ve heard of the Seventh day Adventist. And turned out one was just a short drive away. My curiosity led me to wonder what they had to say? My name is B

rian Beavers. We our 7-day Adventist Protestant Christians. Christianity is following the teachings and the practices of Jesus. So, we believe in a thing called the Great Controversy. In other words, the battle between good and evil that started in Heaven. In that controversy, that started in Heaven, was over God. And who he was. The Bible tells us that God is love. And that's what Satan challenged. Satan challenged God's love. And subsequently he was cast out of Heaven to this Earth. When he wa

s cast down to this Earth, he brought his plan. The plan of sin and rebellion to this Earth. And we believe that sin is not just something, who you are. It's not your nature. It's not original sin. But that it is sin, is the transgression of the Law in which God originally gave in Heaven. Which Satan broke, and so he brings that rebellion to this Earth. He broke the happiness in the Peace of Earth when he got Adam and Eve to come in and to join him. And since then, we've been on that crash cours

e of sin and rebellion. But Jesus came to help to free us from that. To restore us back to health and peace. And in doing so, when he restored us, he did it as what the Bible calls the Lamb of God. We believe that Jesus came as our Sacrificial Lamb. And that he not only forgives us of our sins, but he gives us power to overcome those sins by the Gospel. By his grace. And so we inherently believe that the Gospel is eternal. And some believe that the Gospel is different. And God saves people diffe

rently, at different times. But we believe that the Gospel is everlasting. It's the same thing we're all saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. And that's the bedrock of salvation. We believe that Jesus came down to this Earth to save us from sin. And he saves us not only from the penalty of sin, but sin itself. That he can give us the victory over sin. And sin is something that's interesting. It's defined as breaking God's Law in the Bible. And so Satan wants to do everything to get us t

o break God's Law. And he's done a masterpiece. The historical Antichrist of Bible prophecy, actually changed God's Commandments. He took out the Second Commandment. And you can't have Nine, Ten Commandments. So, he split the Ninth Commandment into two. The Commandment on Adultery. And made in two Commandments. And then, he changed the day of worship from the seventh day of the week, to the first day of the week. And so the Fourth Commandment becomes the Third Commandment, and you have Ten Comma

ndments again. So this is one of the unique characteristics that makes us different from the others. Is that we have the historical changes that were done to the Ten Commandments. One of which was the Fourth Commandment. And so the Fourth Commandment is one thing that sets us apart from the other, others. And that is the Sabbath. And so, that uniquely in our name is Seventh-Day Adventist. And the reason why that is, is because we believe that the world was created in six literal days. And on the

seventh day God rested from his work. Now this was not just an act of God the Father alone, in fact this was more specifically the work of Jesus. In John chapter one verse one it says, in the beginning was the word, the Word was with God, the Word was God. The reason why Jesus is called the word, is because that's how he created the world. And so, the seventh day is a memorial of how God created the world. We firmly believe that the Fourth of the Ten Commandments, God's seventh day Sabbath, is

an integral part of worshipping our Creator. It doesn't foreshadow anything in the future, but rather it looks back to creation. As we consider people have said, well, wasn't it just given to the Jews? Well creation happened a long time before Mount Sinai. It happened in the Garden of Eden. One of the unique things about the Sabbath is that it's a day in which we set aside the whole 24 hours. Is not just a time for going to Church and then coming home. But that whole 24 hour period of time, we g

et to spend in thoughtful meditation with him. An important part of that is of course is coming together and worshiping. But it's not exclusive to just coming together and worshiping. We see that practice all throughout the Old Testament. When we get to the New Testament, we see Jesus participating in Sabbath worship. And the unique thing is, before Jesus dies in Matthew chapter 24, he tells his Disciples to make sure that they remembered to keep the Sabbath. When the destruction of Jerusalem ha

ppened some 35 or so odd years into the future. After his death. So we believe that it was an Apostolic Practice - and so Apostolic Succession really comes through fidelity in keeping what God had originally instituted. And part of that as Jesus told his Disciples was keeping the Sabbath. Well we see very early on in the Christian Church, in the book of Acts, that the Apostle Paul, and the other Disciples, they also kept the Seventh-Day Sabbath. And so, we see that it is a unique characteristic

of our Church. But not only our Church as we project forward from the point of the Apostolic Church, We see groups like the Albigensis, the Waldenses. Waldenses originally called, the Vaudois. Also kept the seventh day of the week. And up until the time of Constantine, it was at the time of Emperor Constantine that there were changes made. That it was changed from the seventh day of the week, to the first day of the week. And that went on for a while. Proof of that largely comes through those wh

o were writing the laws against keeping the Seventh-Day Sabbath. And we see that track throughout history. We see that God's faithful people throughout time were conscientious about keeping the seventh day of the week. Patrick was another Sabbath keeper very early on. We see a number of different people groups in Northern Africa. We see them keeping the Sabbath. We see them keeping Sabbath in Southeast Asia. There was a large group of Syrian Christians that kept the Sabbath. Not only in the Sout

h of India, but also in the West of India in a place called Goa. There was a large group of people that kept the Sabbath. Probably from the Apostle Thomas and his work in in India. And then today we come down and their Seven-Day Baptists, and then finally us they keep the Seventh-Day Sabbath. And so, we feel that this Seventh-Day Sabbath is important because it's a look back on Jesus. Jesus as our Creator. The one who made everything by the word of his mouth. And in keeping the Sabbath, we honor

his commandment. The Fourth Commandment. And so, we believe that the Ten Commandments is what defines sin. And so, if the devil can get God's people to sin, then he has got them. And the historical Antichrist that's what he did. By manipulating the Commandments, he's leading the whole world into sin. We believe that when Jesus came down to this earth, he didn't take a higher form of humanity that you or I could have. He came to be relatable. The Bible says that he took on our fallen nature, so

that we can relate to him. So that as looking to him, not only as our, as somebody who saves us from sin. But also, in our substitute, but somebody who is our example. We believe that Jesus came as our example to show us how to live. And in doing so, when he goes to heaven he's now Ministering in a place called the Heavenly Sanctuary, where he is taking his blood and Ministering it, as the Ancient Priests did in the Book of Leviticus and Exodus. And also in the book of Hebrews. And as a result,

when Jesus comes back, when he comes back in his clouds of glory, we believe his coming will be audible, visible, literal, and glorious. So when he comes back, he is going to come back for those who have loved him. Who have given their lives to him. And he's coming, is not in secret. As some people think that he's going to come secretly. But he's going to come with all the Holy Angels. Hard to hide that. And then after that, we believe that there's going to be a thousand-year span of time in whi

ch the righteous are going to go to Heaven and to be with Jesus. And then the wicked are destroyed here on this Earth. There's no life on the Earth according to the prophecies of Revelation in Jeremiah and Isaiah. That the Earth is empty. And then, Jesus comes back a third time, and there's in, Revelation chapter 20, he mentions Hellfire that destroys the whole Earth. And the, and the those who are resurrected, that are wicked Hellfire happens. Annihilation. Everybody is destroyed. Including the

Devil himself is destroyed. According to the Prophecies of Ezekiel in Revelation. And also, John. It's mentioned in the Gospel of John. It's destroyed. After that, God creates a new Heaven and a new Earth. And everything is made new and beautiful. Mow before all that takes place, we also believe that the dead, as Jesus said, are not in Heaven or Hell. Because Hell is something that takes place in the future according to the Bible. And so the righteous in Heaven that takes place in the future. B

ut like Jesus said, the dead are just sleeping in the grave, until he comes back. Whether the first time to the resurrection of life, or the second time to the resurrection of damnation or destruction. And so, these core issues lead into our understanding of God. How we picture God. Is God somebody who is wanting to destroy people? Or is he somebody who loves us and is trying to do everything to save us? So we believe God is trying to do everything to save humanity. We believe that Christ is now

Ministering not in a Sanctuary made of hands, but he is our High Priest. Ministering in the Sanctuary above. And that his Ministry is similar to the Ministry of the Ancient Priest. How they would daily offer sacrifices for the forgiveness of sin. Jesus is daily interceding for us in the Heavenly Sanctuary. But there comes a time in their Earthly Priesthood, where sin was completely eradicated from the camp. We believe that there's a, the day is here in which Jesus is eradicating the sins of God

's people. In other words, he is going to finally do away with what Satan originally brought to us, sin. And he's gonna wipe it out so much so, that you or I will not remember it. And he caused the blotting out of sin, and he says that even he will not remember it. So, God is going to take care of sin. He's going to completely remove it, just as it was removed from the Earthly Sanctuary on the day of Atonement. So many years ago. Our history really begins in the mid to early 1800s. We were peopl

e known for Bible prophecy. In fact the time period in which I'm describing is a time period before we actually became a Denomination. Our church arises out of the Second Great Awakening. And with the Preaching of men like William Miller, and others. It was known as the great Millerite Advent Movement. Our people were so accurate with prophecy, that they took a prophecy from the Trumpets. In the Sixth Trumpet, and they calculated the years. And they saw that it was 391 years. And they saw that i

t was getting ready to be fulfilled, where the Ottoman Empire would have its power taken away, and it would become a vassal State to three empires. Prussia, England, Austria, and Russia. And our people put it in the newspaper, two weeks before it happened. This gave, when it happened, this gave rise to the great Advent movement. And people began to believe the prophecies that that our early people were teaching. Well, there came a time in which they said that there was a Day of Atonement similar

ly to the Hebrew Sanctuary. And they took the prophecies of Daniel, and Daniel chapter 8 verse 14. And said on, October 22nd 1844, the Heavenly Sanctuary is going to be cleansed. What they thought that meant was that the the Earth was going to be cleansed by fire and Jesus was going to come back. That didn't take place. But there was an accuracy that they had with prophecy. They went back, they studied, they found out that the issue was not the cleansing of the Earth by fire, but it was the clea

nsing like the day of Atonement in the Heavenly Sanctuary. That devastated our people. That disappointment that when they thought Jesus was going to come back. But from a group of fifty people our Church now has grown to twenty-two million around the world. If you look at it like a graph, it almost looks like a mega ramp. A mega skateboard, or BMX ramp. The the graph goes like this. And the reason for that is our emphasis on health, on education, and on Preaching the word. Those three things hav

e helped us to grow. And now we're in 208 countries around the world. And we have the largest Protestant education system in the world. So, I grew up as a Seventh-Day Adventists. But during my teenage years, I fell away. And after realizing the Lord's calling on my life, and what he was asking me to do, I came back and I started to study. I didn't immediately say, oh yes I embrace this religion. No, I went back, and I carefully studied. And it was because of the fidelity to the Scriptures, is wh

y I chose to become a Seventh-Day Adventist. So I studied Pastoral Evangelism. And have my Bachelor's and Pastoral Evangelism, and I have a Minor in Agriculture. After that study period, that I mentioned that I studied. It’s, I've become more and more convinced that what the Bible says is true. And if there were some another Denomination that taught the truth, I wouldn't want to be a part of that in other words my commitment is is to truth and not to a Denomination. I believe Jesus says in, John

chapter 5 verse 39, then the Scriptures are they which testify of him. That time he was speaking of the Old Testament. I believe that the Old Testament is the prophecy, and the revealing of Jesus as the Messiah. And the New Testament shows the fulfilling of Jesus as the Messiah. I see them as one, not as separate competing units, but as one harmonious whole. I could not pick just one book of the Bible. I would say it's a triad. The first would be Daniel, and because of its prophecies that are s

o much resonate with us. Revelation, also the same reason. The third one is Paul's masterpiece, the book of Hebrews. I would say those three best resonate with us. Elijah is my absolute favorite figure from the Old Testament. Why? Because he, in the midst of deep corruption, religious corruption around him, he stood as a giant and proclaimed the worship of the Creator. The most important lesson that Jesus taught, was his mission. And his mission was to reveal who the Father was. Jesus said, Phil

ip have I been so long with you and you asked me to see the father. If you have seen me, you have seen the Father. In other words, Jesus came to reveal exactly who God the Father was. People think that God the Father is a vengeful, vindictive God of the Old Testament, that sends lightning to destroy people. No. Jesus said, we look to him we can see the father. So, Jesus shows us who God the Father is. That he is love. And how did he reveal that love? He sent His only Son into this world, and gav

e himself for us that we might have everlasting life. Right now, and they change, right now it's John chapter 17 verse 3, where it says, and this is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent. The role of the Church in modern society, you would hope would be to emulate the Ministry of Jesus. His emphasis on, on seeking, and saving those who are lost. His emphasis on teaching the truth. And, his emphasis on health. We have a variety of programs th

at we do here that are specifically targeted to emulate the Ministry of Jesus. So, one of those Ministries is a cooking class that we have here called, They Eat Well Live Well Cooking Class. We are known as a people for our health principles. We have eight laws of Health, in which God has, we believe spelled out in the Bible. And if we go back to those principles, we can we can have a better quality of life. We were featured in National Geographic as being a people that live longest in the world

. And so, it's because of our Biblical principles of lifestyle. So we share those at our cooking schools that we do three times a year. Here in the Red Wing's Seventh-Day Adventist Church. But then, we also have a radio station. That we have a local low-power radio station, in which we share the Gospel 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And it's a wonderful Ministry to the community. Lots of people give us feedback about that, and tell us how much they enjoy that. And then, we also have our radi

o station also sponsors a community event one time a year. Where we have, not here in our physical building, but we go to the community and we have lectures. Where we, where we go through the Bible and explain certain Bible prophecies. That are questions that people have been longing for, answers for for a long time. And after that we also do, we have a vibrant prison and jail Ministry, where we go to the local prisons. I myself go to four facilities and giving Bible studies probably about six o

r seven different studies a week, in, in prison and jail facilities. We believe that God has his children in every Denomination. And that there are people who are in every Denomination who will be saved. But as in the days of Jesus, Jesus says, other sheep I have that are not of this fold. Them must I also bring. In other words, we believe that God's people, are other Denominations are God's people. And we believe God is leading other Denominations just as he is leading us into a fullness of tru

th. But we believe that God is also at the same time calling people out of Spiritual confusion in these last days. And he wants us to all be united in upon the point of truth upon the point of his word. And so, we believe that God is going to bring all that together and we, he calls his people out of confusion, and into his remnant fold. In Revelation 14 chapter 12 where it says, who keep the Commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. [Jacob] Calvary Christian Church will be our last stop

on our journey and my first time in a Baptist Church. I am Randy Breg, and I'm 63. We are we call ourselves Calvary Christian Church. We are a Baptist denomination. There are many different kinds of Baptists. There are Southern Baptist, there are Conservative Baptist, there are a group called the American Baptist. We are, we came from a heritage of being the Swedish Baptist denomination. Which means it is a group of Baptists that began about 150 years ago to reach Swedish immigrants who had come

from the old country. And then they settled in, started in Chicago area, in Illinois. And then, a lot of them migrated up into the Minnesota, and Iron Range. And then down in the Twin Cities. So they started Churches that were going to reach people in their own language. So it used to be all Swedish, that these groups were were speaking. It's very interesting, different from like Lutheran, or Lutheran, Methodist, Catholic. [Jacob] what do you think is the defining factor? [Randy] Okay, well we

believe some, you know some of our core values are first of all, we believe the Bible is the Word of God. That's true. And it's original, original manuscripts and it's understandable by everyone. We believe that that Jesus is God in human flesh. He is not one of many gods. He is the only God. So, Jesus and God are one. Jesus is fully human, he's also fully God, according to what the Bible says. We believe that give you a whole bunch of things. But, I think that the main, the main issues are, we

believe that Salvation is not by, does not come from what you do. Rather on what God has done for us. The Bible says, it's by Grace you have been saved through Faith. It is not of yourselves. It's a gift of God. So, it's not as a result of works. So no one can boast about how good they are. That's in the book of Romans chapter, I mean Ephesians chapter 4. And so, we believe that we become a member of God's family by accepting the gift of Salvation that Jesus offers us. Jesus came as the perfect

human being. God in human flesh. Whole Easter story, he died on the Cross, he rose again to take away our sins. And so, by accepting that gift that he gives us. And we can have relationship with the Father. And so, as Baptist Churches, we tend to be kind of independent of one another. They call it an Irenic Spirit. Whenever that word really means. It means, that we operate with cooperating with other Baptist Churches. Our denomination is actually called the Baptist General Conference, or it's ca

lled Converge. The new name that they come up with. There's approximately 2,000 Churches in the United States. We're part of a smaller group called a Converged North-Central Group. Which is about 220 Churches in Minnesota and Iowa. We have an Executive Minister, and we have some staff that help. We have a camp up in North of Brainerd, Trout Lake Camp. Which is a wonderful place, where kids and adults can learn about what it means to to be a follower of Jesus. So our denomination, we do things to

gether because it’s, you can do things together easier, than you could by themselves. We couldn't do, we couldn't have a camp by ourselves, we couldn't start other Churches by ourselves. It helps when you have other people. We're involved in a mission in Ukraine, where we have a Sister Church, South of the Capital city of Kiev. About two hours. And that Church is a Church about our size. We just help them every year. We've been doing this for about 25 years. Ever since the fall of the Iron Curta

in we've been helping out this Church. We help them with children's camps, and we help them with youth camps, we help with the Pastor, with his salary. We've helped them with their buildings, We've helped to start and build I think seven Little Sister Churches in some of the neighboring villages. And so, we're able to kind of partner up with them and be a sister to them. We could do that if it was just us trying to do it. And so, our denomination has helped us to do those things. But the denomin

ation doesn't tell us what to do. They don't dictate, okay this is who you have to choose as a Pastor, this is how you have to operate. No. Our Churches choose their own Pastor and our Churches determine how they're going to spend their money, and how they're going to operate. I gave you some of it. So, part of the history is that it started with people who were really breaking away from a State Church. Whether it was in Sweden, there are a lot of State Churches in Europe. In Sweden and in Germa

ny, Lutheran Churches were part of that State Church. They were then there was a State Church of Sweden. And they felt that, I think for our Swedish Baptists group, they became convinced that we can read the Bible for ourselves. We can operate for ourselves. We don't need the State telling us how to operate. And so, that's how really that the whole Baptist and the Swedish Baptist started. There's a lot more that's involved, but it's a, it's more of a breaking away from an established State Churc

h, religion, that they they start operating. Me personally? I grew up in a Church like this. I think a lot of where we go is based on our family background. And my parents and a lot of relatives were from a Baptist Church. And so, that's where I grew up, and that's really all I knew as a child. Maybe similar to you, with the Church that you grew up in. And so, when I really felt that God was calling me to be a Pastor, it was really very natural for me to think, well I would be a Pastor in a Chur

ch like the one I grew up in. That's why I chose it. I wouldn't say not hesitation in my belief. I think we all have doubts. We wonder why God does something, or why God doesn't do something. Whenever I'm talking to people here about questions they have, if you you pray and it doesn't seem like the prayer is getting answered, well why didn't God do it? You pray for somebody who has cancer to the healed of their cancer. And they died. You pray for someone who has been in a car accident and nothin

g seems to happen. You pray for a job, you don't seem to get a job. Those kind of things. They, for me, that hasn't it hasn't drawn me away from God. But. I ask those same questions, and I tell people that the Bible teaches us that in all things God will work together for good. Now, if we look at, if we look at God being a, he says, I want you to call me Father. God has chosen that. He says I want you to call me Father, and I want to be like a Father to you. I want to have that relationship with

you. Our Father knows his children. I have three kids, and I have seven grandkids. And I love my kids. I love my grandkids. And we have that special unique relationship. Now God has that relationship with us. It's not the relationship of a boss, and somebody who works, or a master and a slave. It's a close relationship, like a father has with his child. So God says, I want to have that kind of relationship with you. I don't always understand why things don't happen the way I would like them, bu

t my faith is based on trusting that God knows better than I do. That he sees the bigger picture. We can all probably think of examples of why our parents didn't do something or uh, didn't let us, didn't give us something that we thought we wanted. It, they really knew best, you know. Why didn't you, why didn't our parents let us just eat eat a bowl full of sugar for breakfast? Well, because it's not good for you. Well, we didn't know that. But our parents knew better. And so, God as a perfect F

ather, knows better. He knows what's best for us. So, if I could keep that in my head, then even when things don't turn out as I would want them to turn out, I can have confidence that God really is doing the best thing for me. I went to Bethel University up in Saint Paul. Which was started back 150 years ago, as a Seminary to train Swedish Pastors for these Swedish Churches that I talked about. Bethel Seminary started, then they started Chicago. It was there for 50 years, and then it moved to S

t. Paul. Right across from the State Fairgrounds. Became a College along with a Seminary. To portray Pastors so they became a college, and then it became a university, maybe 10 years ago or 12 years ago. Still has a Seminary to train Pastors. But it's a liberal arts school now. So, I went to our school, that was our school. That's where a lot of our Pastors came from, and my parents went to Bethel, then I went to Bethel Seminary. A four-year degree Master of Divinity degree. Then I got a Bethel

Seminary, and then I went to Eastern Baptist Seminary. Which is from another Baptist group, the American Baptist Group in Philadelphia. And I got my Doctorate of Ministry degree there in ministry to marriage and family. Favorite figure from the Old Testament? There's a lot of choices. Obviously I was just speaking on a guy named Elijah, who was a Prophet. So I'll just pick that one for now. Elijah was a man who God used in a powerful way. He was many times felt like he was the lone voice in the

people of Israel. Telling them what to do, and then at that time they had an evil wicked King, Ahab. Who was set up all kinds of shrines to worship other gods. His wife was even worse, named Jezebel. We don't hear a lot of people naming their children Jezebel these days, and maybe it's because of that. But Elijah was one who he stood up when he needed to stand up for what God was wanting him to do. He spoke up, and he showed up. And yet, at one point, Jezebel said, that's it, I want your head by

tomorrow. And what did he do? He ran for his life. He was so fearful, and God just reminded him even in his fear and in his doubt that he was still in charge. He was in control. Things were not as bad as he maybe thought they were. And that he needed trust in him. So, at this time of my life I really like Elijah. New Testament and Old Testament. The new one is not the new improved Testament. The Old Testament is the whole thing is really the story of God's working with people. The Old Testament

is not just a bunch of stories that somebody has written to make people look good. Or make God look good. So much of it is history. There's different types of literature in the Old Testament. There is, there is history, there is a lot to do with the Jewish people, and how God worked in there, how God chose the is the people of Israel to be his special people. And, and that he, and then the promises in the prophecies, that said, I'm going to send a King. A King of Kings who is going to rule, and

things are going to be a little different. And that's really the impetus of the New Testament, is the story of Jesus. We read about what the Gospel is. The word. Gospel is the word good news. And the good news is that Jesus came, God in human flesh. And he lived among us, and so, the New Testament is the completion of the Old Testament. Jesus said, I didn't come to abolish the Old Testament. I didn't come to abolish the law. I came to fulfill it. I came to complete it. To kind of paint the rest

of the picture so that we have God's full plan for us. So, the Old and New Testaments they mesh together, and tell us more about what God wants for us. Which one of my favorite, if I had to pick a favorite verse, I like Romans 12:1 and 2. Which says, Paul was wrote that the Apostle Paul. And he is writing to the Christians, who are in Rome. And he said, I urge you brothers by the mercy of God that you present yourselves as a living sacrifice. Holy and acceptable to God. This is your spiritual a

ct of worship. And don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you'll be able to test and approve what God's will is, is good, and it's pleasing, and His perfect will. I love those two verses, because Paul is saying, here's how you live your life. You give your life to God, every day. You've got this relationship that you have established by becoming a child of God. By asking Jesus to take your sins away. To become part of the family of God. And so, yo

u join that family. You're adopted into his family. There's that daily stuff that you need to do it every day. I need to say, God, today I'm giving you me. I'm giving you, myself. It's almost like a sacrifice in the Old Testament. He said, I want you to be a living sacrifice now. The difference between a living sacrifice and a dead sacrifice is a living one crawls off the altar. And that's what we tend to do. We tend to live for ourselves, and forget about God. Put him off to the side. So each d

ay I need to say, God I want you to be, I want you to lead my life, help me to be a living sacrifice for you. Help me to live how you want me to live. And be the kind of person that you want me to be in our, in our day. And he says, don't be conformed to this world. And one, one translator puts that, don't let the world squeeze you into its mold. Don't just think how everybody else wants you to think. No. Ask God how you want to think, and how you ought to think. So don't be conformed this world

, would be transformed by the renewing of your body that God wants to work in our heads in our minds. That word transform, is actually the Greek word, Metamorpho, which is where we get the word metamorphosis. When that caterpillar attaches itself onto the branch and spins the chrysalis, and then inside that cocoon emerges a butterfly. And after many days that transformation, that drastic change that happens in our lives, that's what he asks us to be. Don't be conformed being like the world wants

you to be. But instead be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then it was like God work in your mind, in your thinking. The religion Christianity in particular, because Christianity is not a religion. It's a relationship that we have with God. Christianity is as me giving my mind to God and letting him work through my mind, and my thinking. He says, then you'll be able to test and approve what God's will is for your life is good, pleasing, perfect will God has a will for my life. He has a

plan for my life. He knows all about me. He knows all about you. He has a plan for your life. And Paul is saying that plan that he has, it is good. Which means it's something you'll like. If you say, okay I'm gonna be a living sacrifice to God, now he's gonna send me over to some part of the world that I want to go. No, he's not gonna do that. He's gonna give you a good plan, and one is pleasing, and one is perfect, perfectly suited for your gifts and your abilities. The things you can do, how

you think, how he's made you. So that's why I love those two verses in Romans chapter 12. It just really zeroes in on the kind of person God wants each of us to be. This is probably what the other Pastors are saying too. When he talks about loving the Lord your God. When the one man came up to him and said, Jesus, of all Commandments, everything there is, everything in the Old Testament, what's the most important? Jesus said, oh that's easy. He said, love the Lord your God with all your heart, s

oul, mind, and strength. Kind of like presenting yourself as a living sacrifice. And then, love your neighbor as yourself. So it all comes down to love. God loves me so much that he wants me to love others. Not just people that are likable. Not just people who agree with me. Not just people that are easy to love. But to to love even people that are difficult to love. People that might not like me. They might not like my views, my beliefs. That’s, that's not a prerequisite he says. You need to lo

ve everyone. And then Jesus, and he said, love your neighbor as yourself. And then one guy said, well who's my neighbor? And then, he go and told the whole story of the Good Samaritan, where there was a Priest, then there was a Levite. These two very religious guys who saw somebody who was beat up on the side of the road, they walked the other way because they were too busy doing religious stuff. But then another guy came by, a Samaritan who was kind of at the, Jews and the Samaritans didn't get

along. They disagreed with each other. They would walk, they would walk on the other side of the street to avoid each other. But that's the one that helped out. And so, Jesus said which one of these was the neighbor? Well, it was the one who had mercy on him. It was a Samaritan. He said, now you go and do likewise. Love people, love everyone. Not just ones that are easy. We have a a mission statement for our Church it's on that little card I gave you. It's to live by faith, to be known by love,

and to have a voice of hope. That the Church needs to be people that are living by faith in God and trusting him day by day. That's not in isolation. We don't just act that way just in our own homes, or in our own Church buildings. I tell people, you know the Church, the Church is not when we're here. This is where we kind of gather for the locker room talk, and where the coach talks. So I see myself as a player coach. Okay, here's what we're supposed to do. Now let's go out and play the game.

And so, we act like Christians when we leave here on Sunday. Then your, your relationship to God is not what you do on Sunday. It's what you do the rest of the time. To be a Church means to, then if you uh, you're living by faith, you need to be known by love. We try to do things here so that we can help our community. We just had a Trunk or Treat event couple days ago on the Halloween night. Where we had people bring their cars here. And they open up the trunk. We'd had them decorate in some sp

orts theme. I said now make up some kind of a game, then have candy. So, if kids come by it and they play the game that they can they win a piece of candy. And then, we're going to give, we gave them some little fake money that they could buy some toys and stuff in the store. We had a bonfire. We gave out free hotdogs, we gave out cider, we had popcorn. All of that just to show love to our community. We're not asking anybody for money. We're not asking them to, I invited, I said you're not going

to any Church, we'd love you to come here, because we're a great Church. We're a great family. We're trying to all learn about how to live for God together. So if you're not going to, if you're going to Church, then go to that Church. You need to be involved in the, in your Church. But if you're not, boy come here. We'd love to have you here. And so, we try to do those kind of things, where we can show love. We try to be a place where we can have a voice of hope. Because in our world, there's a

lot of hopelessness. There's a weariness. A lot of people who are angry about things. A lot of people who are discouraged about things. But we believe that that Jesus is the hope of the world, and the Church has the message of hope. And that no matter what you're going through, God can give you hope. When you trust it in him. Well, there's so many different kinds of Churches. There are so many different Denominations. I think there are some that are, we're all very, some we're almost the same.

We just have a different, different background. A different heritage. Maybe there's some small things that we differ on. The most important thing, like I was saying is do you believe that first of all, that everybody, the Bible says that everybody is lost if they don't have, they don't know Jesus. You either believe that's true, or you believe that's not true. Second thing, you either believe that Jesus is the only way, or there anyway, many ways to get to God. And the Bible says, Jesus is the o

nly way. So if you believe the Bible, and the, what the Bible says is true, if you believe what Jesus says is true, then either Jesus is right when he says, I'm the only way no one gets to God except through me. Either he's right, or he's crazy, or he's a liar. That's really the only choices you have. So really what separates Churches are who did they think Jesus is? Is he just a good person? Is he a prophet? Is he just a good moral religious leader? Or is he God in human flesh, our only means b

y which we can have a relationship with God, the Father. [Jacob] That's about it. [Randy] that's it? Alright, thank you! [Jacob] I’ve learned much about some of the things that separate us, and bring us together. I learn more about my own faith in Catholicism. I've become more knowledgeable what it means to be a Lutheran, Baptist, and Seventh-Day Adventist. I know there's still many Denominations out there for us to come to know. Yet each one comes together in their faith in Christianity. Throug

h this journey I've discovered there's more than one road to heaven.