every CIO needs to understand their theory of the business and then if you understand that theory of the business and apply that to the job that you do then you understand why you exist right this is why I exist to drive that performance quality and up time in the business I've start to think about it is making Hardware cool again and so therefore we're the cool kids right if you have to be able to change at speed to win you have to have a composable architecture and a composable architecture th
at's put together beautifully it's like a beautiful jazz band you don't have just one instrument in a jazz band you have multiple instruments in a jazz band a composable mindset will actually help you create beautiful music systems that work together that deliver amazing outcomes welcome to the new automation mindset where AI Automation and integration come together I'm your host Marcus zern and as Chief strategy officer and part of the founding executive team at Rado it is my mission to find th
ese top innovators in AI Automation and integration and share their Journeys with all of you this podcast is inspired by The Wall Street Journal best-selling book with the same title written by orado CEO VJ T if you would like a free copy of the book be sure to listen for a special offer at the end of today's episode so for today's show uh I have as guest with me uh Earl Nome CIO of cumin and actually not just cumins but Earl has been cxo at cumins at Lind at uh EST laer so all s SMP 500 compani
es so lots and lots of experience going back uh he was a partner at deoe and then started off as a West Point uh graduate so really really excited about that uh so Earl um so commin obviously everybody knows commin for the diesel engines like in trucks uh but you know it's much more than trucks it's construction it's Marine tell us a little bit about uh your business comm's business and you know what I'm specifically interested this is kind of like the business processes you know how you're addi
ng value to the business uh uh uh with technology sure and and thank you very much uh uh for the opportunity to speak Marcus and uh and I'm happy to share uh things about Cummins and and when we think about Cummins the best way to think about Cummins is that we you our focus is really on powering a more prosperous World um and we do so through uh a several business units we have our engine business unit which you mentioned there that produces engines for multiple in uses but we also have our com
ponents business which provides components that surround those engines we have our distribution business which services and supports those those engines we have a Power Systems business which actually takes those engines and puts them into end uses for gen sets and things like that U and then we have our acceler business which is our newest business which is focused on uh new power uh that being battery electric and hydrogen um and so I think what's really exciting about Cummins is Cummins you k
now as you mentioned was a diesel company but C has also now expanded itself to be not just a diesel company but a power company right and so we are working on how we're powering a more prosperous World um by really focusing on destination zero Technologies um and what those Technologies can help bring to bear uh for all of our customers and for the world right and from a business process standpoint and how does it and Technology bring those business processes to bear I think it's across multipl
e fronts uh we have technology in our plants we have over 150 plants around the world um producing uh the components and engines that I just mentioned we have over 9,000 points of service around the world you know so where you can come in and get your engine serviced as an oem customer and so our Business Systems Support the manufacturing of our Goods the support and quality of our Goods uh because what our engines really what our excuse me what our customers really want is uptime right and so t
hrough our robust power uh and and robust processes we provide amazing amounts of uptime for our customers um because that's what they that's what they're really buying is performance quality and uptime from Cummins uh and I really talk about that and I think that's really the theory of our business right we offer the performance to get the job done right whether it's the torque to move the truck the rail the boat uh we do it uh we produce quality products that are designed to be around for many
years some of our products get to 20,000 hours and then we provide robust up time right uh through that through an amazing you know uh support network of 9,000 points of service and a robust cyber security program that keeps our business systems running so I think all of that is what differentiates cment and that's what we provide uh across the energy diversity Spectrum so it's really all about you know uh supply chain transparency but then also just amazing service maybe even you know predicti
ve maintenance or those kind of things when when the when the uptime really matters so much right is is this kind of what you what you guys are thinking about yeah absolutely we we want to use technology uh to help us you know move from you know descriptive types of predictive performance or descriptive you know actions to predictive and prescriptive AC actions and so when you think about you know uh prognostics and using telematics to understand when an engine might fail you know the you know t
he more prescriptive you can get with that the better it is for our customers and that's really where technology can make a difference and that's why onboard diagnostics and telematics is is essential in the power and mobility and transportation sector you know where uptime counts so much uh you want to be really predictive and pro and and really create prognostics based upon telematics and that's where we're making lots of Investments and and really trend to you know focus on how do we provide
those types of prognostics to help keep our customers running perfect perfect so I I obviously researched a little bit about you and you I've seen some some talks you you highlighted you know a strategy plus you know your it uh strategy at uh at comment and you know I just happen to notice how you put the business first with everything I think every single item of your it strategy it started with you know the business uh so I I I I I was trying to mirror this against a lot of other cios we work
with you know maybe here in Silicon Valley there's this trend where people actually saying like hey we don't want to be called cios anymore we want to be called the heads of business technology or the you know they're making that they're making the same connection to the business that that you're doing tell me H H how do you think about this or maybe I mean what would be your ideal title is it CIO is it is it something else just uh just curious I I think that's a great question and I'll start wi
th a little bit about the pivot and and my interest in business and and how I think it drives business and I think every CIO and we'll start up with that term uh needs to understand their theory of the business right and so for me uh understanding the theory of the business ought to be the your first job as a technology leader inside any organization first understand how we make money right and the way cumins makes money and I this is my theory the business as it relates to it is that cumins off
ers that better performance quality uptime uh to our customers than they can do by themselves or get from another third party that's why Cummins wins in the marketplace right and then if you understand that theory of the business then you understand how can you help execute that theory of the business or deliver that theory of the business how can it help drive performance in the business how can we drive better quality how can we help drive you know uh the uptime that our customers need and so
when you think about the theory of the business and apply that to the job that you do then you understand why you exist right this is why I exist to drive that performance quality and uptime in the business and what's happening in the industry and you know so I got my business head on then I got to have my industry head on so I need to understand what's happening in our industry and I always I use a word Ace um and this is a term that means the power industry is becoming much more automated much
more connected much more energy diverse right and so it's becoming automated I call it hyper automated where it's becoming very personal like how your your phone how you use your power in your car or your home or your phone is become very personalized so you can maximize the use of that power and the length and the duration of that power power is and the only way we get that is through hyperconnectivity so everything's becoming connected you know billions and billions of connected Parts it's be
coming very energy diverse from fossil based fuels as you talked about in the beginning to non-fossil based fuels like bof fuels to battery electric to hydrogen and so now what's happening in the industry is this theme called Ace um and PQ is what we're known for now that same expectation that you have in the diesel side of that energy diversity spectrum is now being expected across all forms of energy diversity Spectrum so come one in the diesel space and cumin will win you know in the energy d
iversity space with hydrogen and Battery electric by applying that PQ and so if you understand you know the theory of business you understand you know how your industry operates I think you become a quad deep executive and so to me quad deep executives are this you know business intelligence you know knowing how your business makes money industry intelligence knowing how you compete and win in the industry and what you chose to operate in emotional intelligence right knowing how people think and
feel and then uh technical intelligence was becoming a master at your craft right and if we can do those things then I think we become presidents of technology so we move from you know this idea of the notion of just being focused on technology right and your focus on being a CIO to now you're the president of Technology you're aligned with that theory of the business you understand how your industry operates you work and you get connected with people as well as being a technical expert you're
a quad deep executive and now you're a president right and you're you're focused on helping your business succeed uh you're hop helping on you know or you helping your customers succeed and helping your employees succeed and if you're doing all of that then you're truly a president of technology I like that I like that a lot you know we we we put out this book the new automation mindset right and one of the chapters is the the growth mindset uh it seems to me like in the past when you talk to ci
os or it Executives a lot was about you know keeping the lights on it's kind of like I think it's the opposite of growth mindset it's like you know the the just very conservative approach uh to it I think the way you talk about it about about industry Trends about technology having such a big impact also on differentiation of the company to me that really shows like a growth mindset I I I I'm just curious in your experience um when you think about that I mean do you feel that that way also that
you see like among your colleagues maybe do you see that there's a some that maybe have more of a growth mindset than others and maybe does that myr Effectiveness as a president of Technology H how do you look at that the growth mindset uh I think it's a great Challenge and I think the growth mindset is clearly applicable uh I also think you have to have The Beginner's mind right you know you want to approach things a new uh you want to challenge yourself so and and I think you you you know the
growth mindset is absolutely necessary in today's day and age especially with the worlds of automation as I talked about and as automation becomes even automated you know artificial intelligence right uh or assist of intelligence depending on where you think we are on the road to you know this idea about the The Singularity you know but I think you know as we think about software eating the world and you know Mark andreon when he said that you know I think software is eating the world today righ
t and so you have to move from being a caretaker to actually being a harvester right you know to tie to the growth mindset you're no longer a caretaker you need to harvest the value of Technology right you know to even carry on the analogy of growing you have to plant those seeds and you've got to water those seeds and then you've got to grow those seeds not only grow right you have to Harvest Right In order to get the full value of technology in your business uh and how software is going to eat
your industry you know so how is software going to eat your industry then if you understand that then you can understand what seeds do you plant you know where do you plant those seeds how do you get those seeds to grow then how do you harvest the benefit of that technology embedded in your in your business and I actually think this actually takes us down a different path and you know I'm a self-proclaimed nerd right uh and this idea you know we're techies and we're we're nerdy and you know we
are you know sometimes we we wore a lot of hush puppies and our pants didn't always go all the way all the way down to cover our socks but now that's cool right you you're having high water pants that's actually you know pretty cool and so uh I'm starting to think about when you know it is making Hardware cool again and so therefore we're the cool kids right and so you know you think about software eating your industry now you should come from that caretaker role or the you know you were in the
first you be you know in the basement you know making sure the main frame stayed on so now you got to be next to that corner office helping to your company take advantage of software eating this world and you harvesting the value of software um eating your industry whatever that might be no it it it totally I think I totally see that I mean I I don't think there's been a more exciting time than now to be like this CIO or president of Technology because you know if if someone knows about software
eating the world in a company that's that's the person right so so so tell me a little bit I'm I'm actually curious so if we take this on there's obviously so software is eating the world and then all of last year everyone was crazed up about artificial intelligence H how do you think about that is that like another level of software eating the world or you know what what do you guys at uh doing at comments about uh AI of generative AI how do you think about that that's a great question so when
I think about generative Ai and and I love this idea about you know CU software eating the world and you know taking that vernacular and you know I go to the movie Terminator right and the the the version of Terminator I think the number was Terminator 3 I believe it was it was rise of the Machines uh and in this uh episode of of Terminator and I think it was at the end when he's headed down the character John Conor is they going to try to stop Judgment Day right so he's in Arizona finds this b
unker right where he believes you know Skynet is and he's going to go blow up Skynet so he walks into you know the bunker getting ready to save the day he walks in his bunker and he sees a bunch of old computer hardware like these these paper tapes and punch cards and things like that and and then he realizes you know this is not Skynet right you know this is some old computer thing right um and then he comes to this realization that I wasn't meant to stop Judgment Day I was meant to survive Jud
gment Day um and so I think the same way with AI we're not meant to stop AI uh and we're not meant only merely to survive AI we're meant to thrive Ai and so I think we ought to have a a world where we're thriving with AI and it's Bots plus humans makes us exponential and so to me it's about leveraging this notion not replacement AI even though there will be parts of that it'll be more about augmentation AI right where we're making humans exponential by using collaborative Ai and collaborative mo
dels where AI works with us to make us exponential cuz I think it's the journey to exponential ity that we're going to have if we take the advantage and harvest the growth and the seeds and the opportunity with AI will'll become much more exponential and so the way that I think about it is like this and so if we pivot from a survival mindset to a Thrive mindset with AI then we take a positive view of AI we understand that AI has some challenges you know it can be wrong it can hallucinate you kno
w it can use copyrighted materials uh it can be biased uh the antidote for all of that is to put a human in the loop right and so we need to make sure and again if we're thinking about collaborative AI uh and not replacement AI uh and thriving with AI the human in the loop becomes a necessary part of that equation uh and then the human takes on responsibility for the tool I often talk about you know the wielder of a hammer you know you know did the hammer break the glass or did the person who wi
elded the hammer break the glass right you know and so you know it becomes the responsibility of the wielder of the tool to ensure that that tool is used in the most effective way possible so hence that's why a human must be in the loop to take the maximum advantage and keep and keep AI responsible and keep a human in the loop or at least beside the loop to validate that the AI has taken the right answers or the right direction and so if you can do that keep the human in Loop then I think we can
unleash the full power of AI and some of the things that we're thinking about is co-pilots right so having a co-pilot for every role in the organization right you have a co-pilot for the CEO down to a co-pilot for the plant engineer right and that plant engineer co-pilot will help that plant engineer get the timal value out of an operation on the plant floor you know we will then move also a second use case that we're thinking about is how do we move from you know Al analysis Le design to AI wh
ere we're using the AI to help us think about about the sign Alternatives from everything from your supply chain to a factory to a line on a factory to a engineer working on a design of a part we can use AI to actually help us test possibilities out right and run simulations using AI you know a third use cases and people are doing this right now with this intelligent summarization so how do we summarize um better uh how do we drive another use cases productivity for software and Hardware enginee
rs and make them more productive in the use of their job um then how do we change the interactions with our customers by providing chat chat and prompt based interfaces to Service delivery so all those things I think are ways for us to maximize the value of AI we're going to maximize it through various tools we're going to get some tools where it's going to come part of the tool like you know off-the-shelf software will come with AI embeded in it so we need to know about that we'll be able to le
verage our own internal models uh by using some of the cloud suppliers that we use um and we're also going to have some of the public models that are out there that are going to be equally useful for certain purposes as long as they're use safely and so that's the that's when I think about AI is this idea about moving from Fear you know through survival to thriving with AI and helping it make us all exponential yeah no uh I mean it's really interesting all the use cases that we're seeing with AI
I can't think of anyone definitely generative AI I can't think of anyone where there isn't a human in the loop there's always an approval step that seems and it I mean as you said it makes sense right you don't want to you know you there might be all the downsides and so on the hallucinations you want to you want to make sure that it's much better to have generative AI do like 90% of the work and then look over it once more then just uh you know maybe get a a wrong mistake you don't you don't d
o this with a coworker or like a young intern either to uh to just take all the work and just just do it I mean you supervise you have to supervise the uh but uh it is interesting I mean you it seems to me like the wrong attitude would be to fight it I mean if I you know the story I always tell is my my 15-year-old son he had like a biology essay to write and so he typed it into chat chbt and uh what came out we both looked at each other and we said like know you can't hand that in I mean everyb
ody will know that you didn't do this it's just too good right but but I can also I can also see like you know all the other students who don't use it I mean there are a a serious disadvantage so I mean if you don't use it I think that's the biggest Peril almost in for the future I mean you got to you got to find ways to include it because it's just so powerful I agree and I think that there's a uh this going to be the emergent of the new roles right and so I think you know and and this is I eve
n used you know AI or generative AI to kind of do some research on you know whether or not AI will disrupt ourselves or not and so the idea is is what you can do with these new roles whether you're you know a prompt engineer or uh you know a fine tuner or large language model builder I think there's going to be a new role and I'm calling this to role the AI artist right and it'll be Artistry right and so the AI artist was going to take all these different AI tools and models and combine them in
new and unique ways uh to create uh an amazing outcome you know I think about it like if you look at remember the alpha go story and how move 37 and move 78 so move 37 was a predictable move uh that a a human wouldn't have seen and when the machine made the move 3 you know it you know people were say wow you know that was an amazing move right and it was one of a thousand right that was predictable but the machine found it right uh but then move 78 was a move that the human made that was not pre
dictable and actually sent the machine into a t tizzy right I think that was game four that he actually won uh the player won that you know by move 78 and so I believe there's always going to be move 37 where the machine's going to do something cuz it can think a thousand times but there's always going to be move 78 where the human's going to be able to do something that the machine didn't think about and so when you think about this idea of this AI artist the AI artist is going to be the person
who's going to be doing these move 78s and and saying I'm going to take this model uh and do this with it I'm going to take the output of that model put it into this model and see what it does with I'm going to take the output of that and put it into this model and then I'm going to do something with the third output uh that artist you know those Strokes if you will of using the models as Strokes as as you know things on a canvas I think it would be amazing uh in fact you know that I did someth
ing where I asked the you know you know one of the models to give me some numbers on you know unemployment rate over the last 20 years you know what was the technology changes you know what was the impact on the oci rate and population growth and I took those answers and stuck it it to another model and say create a graph from it and it was beautiful and it gave me a graph and much like you know you talk about your son's uh you know report it would have taken an analyst you know six two you know
60 days to come up with this graph I did it in seven minutes you know and so that's the power I think you're right I mean we we we have to unleash it um we have to work with in it and I think we have to we have to be the artist right that Ed these models to create these new amazing outcomes um and and we can do it we have the ability and I think that's going to be a new role uh and hopefully you know someone out there you know some University hears this and starts to create a role around we're
going to create these AI artists so let me let me stay on that topic uh Artistry um because I think there is um so so again this this comes down to I think there was a feature that Accenture did with you and uh and you talked about composability and uh you know to us at Rado it's a it's a huge deal the composable enterprise we in fact we actually uh uh our head of research is masimo Pini from he was a a long-term Gardner analyst actually part of the the team that came up with the Enterprise comp
osition and you know making the bridge to Art uh this is about like playing jazz in it in a in a way like you know it you it used to be that you know when you came in as the CIO it was like you did these big projects you put in a new Erp system or you replaced it or you put in a CRM uh um project and so on but now with this composition there's no tools there's no new ways to do uh things to kind of taking what you have and making something better of it and and who knows maybe infusing some AI in
the middle of it tell tell us a little bit about about how you think about uh composability composition as as an IT tool and what what does it mean for you to to get the job done as a as a CIO uh thank you much for that I mean think uh the way that I think about it is this way is that I think composability is an essential way that we're going to be able to deliver value in it I mean the world is changing much too fast right you know the speed of change is much too fast for to believe that a mon
olithic approach to them is going to help you win the world that software is eating right you know just going back you know software is eating the world software is eating it at such a pace that you know your monolithic you know view of the world back to the old it in the basement you know nurturing the the water cooled uh Mainframe machine to now you have the same computing power on your wrist you know the the idea is is that we know that we have to be composable and we know not one size of it'
s all we know that businesses are changing and morphing at all at all time you know if you're not changing you know yeah you're dead kind of thing and so this idea is you know change is continuous you know so we need to be designing our systems to live in a world of continuous change right and the only way you're going to do that is with composability right and so in my mindset you've got to have this legol likee mindset where we're building these building blocks that can interconnect with each
other um that present certain services within each of those Lego blocks we assemble those uh services or capabilities you know either at the hardware level the services level or even the application Level right to deliver new business outcomes you know for our businesses as they live in this changing world and the person who can change at speed will win right and if you have to be able to change at speed to win you have to to have a composable architecture uh and a composable architecture that's
put together beautifully is like a beautiful jazz band you know uh I often think about it you don't have just one instrument in a jazz band you have multiple instruments in a jazz band and you can you know you see these things where you you can bring beautiful music together in fact uh you know my mother as part of and and bless her soul she's passed uh but uh she was able to bring Martin Luther King Day to Arizona by bringing a Orchestra and a steel drum band together to create music for MLK D
ay celebration try to bring you know despar people together you know you have the the Caribbean steel band and you have the beautiful philarmonic orchestra playing together right making beautiful music That's The Power of composability you know not only can It help you as a business move at the speed of change it can actually bring people together to help them build a unified culture U and a unified Force to bring together change for good right and so that's really winning with the power of diff
erence right and that's one of the things we talk about at cumings is a power of diversity um and that power of diversity helps you win with the power difference I think that was my mom doing it in Arizona to help bring Martin Luther King Day that's us doing it with systems you know bringing those powerful systems together those differences within our systems together to build and deliver unique business outcomes that's how we win with the power difference and so I think you know practicing comp
osability practicing interoperability interchangeability uh all of those things uh help you bring together the power of the difference in in the capabilities in your systems to win and so the monolithic mindset is not going to get you there not let move at the speed of change a composable mindset will actually help you create beautiful music systems that work together that deliver amazing outcomes yeah it's it's really interesting I mean you know when you talk about it right interoperability it
kind of sounds yeah know nerdy techy but if you think about it right uh if you make that comparison there you know think of the main frame like the one Mainframe the monolith that that's like monoculture in agriculture I think we all know now that that that's not the best thing right I think we all love uh Fusion Cuisine right where different things just like your mom uh uh brought different uh uh uh uh you know artists together I think we we love Cuisine where where things mix up together it's
just more tasty in a way and then I mean I know you um you found it the tech packed and that's about diversity of people and and I it seems to me really what we're talking about here is like diversity of Technology just coming together and and and forming in into something more more beautiful and instead of just you know ripping everything out and replacing with uh just one thing uh it Som I mean it Som somehow just makes sense right uh so so I'm I'm I'm curious U you know we found um staying on
this topic of I think it comes down culture right uh uh I found this U study that MIT actually does it's called the culture 500 and so what they do is they look at all the big companies and actually categorize them it's on the internet everyone can can can look it up it's Sloan review the the culture 500 so commment is on there and it shows that commment uh um does really really well on diversity so that that seems to be a strength of comment um you know you did mention that who wins at the end
is who can uh make that composability happen the fastest right agility it's probably maybe one of the the things that come in still have has to improve H how do you think about it how if you look at the cummin culture and then now this ideal of composability like what what are you thinking about I think that's a great uh observation and has a a powerful powerful culture uh one that I think you know resonates a lot in the in the world of companies um you know and we think about how Cummins wins
with the power of difference and and how we bring our diversity to to bear and I'd like to go back just a little bit to that statement because Jay irn Miller you know uh is credited for a lot for the work that cin has done in this space and he's one of our former CEOs and I'm going to paraphrase what he said and what he meant but when he talked about the power of diversity he looked at it as you know I if I only recruit from a subset of the population I'm doing myself a disservice so his winning
with the power of difference is I need I want to look at everyone you know I want to have uh the ability to have the very best talent work at my company and in order for me to do that I've got to look at everyone right because I only look at a subset of that population I'm only doing myself a diservice and so he led with this idea that we want to get the very best talent that's out there uh and so so when I think about you know how Cummins is going to be agile and how cummin is going to continu
e to uh modernize you know the way that we look at things is we're going to look at all of these available disciplines we're going to get the very best people uh and that and the very best people um and we pride ourselves in our ability you know to work and nurture and create belonging with our employees um and with that effort coming together I think you know we will be able to Harvest um you know that power difference to move at the speed we need to move uh to win in the marketplaces we choose
to operate in and so you know and maybe digging a little bit back on you know the tech pack and and thank you for your mention there and and and one of the things I want to say in this power of winning uh with the power difference is that you know the tech pack you know we founded ourselves and and we set ourselves up to be you know focus on building a world where anybody who has a vision for technology ought to have the ability to succeed and that's this power of abundance uh and we think this
abundance mindset is a winning mindset um and so anybody who has a passion for technology ought to have the ability to succeed and we'll do that through a two-factor mission statement we're going to reduce the digital VI in some meaningful way you know over the next over this decade and we want to increase the representation of underrepresented communities within the technology sector over that same period of time and part of the things that we do to try to make that a reality is we have really
three levers you know the first lever is I call the membership lever and that is you know it's a pledge based organization so you can take the pledge at Tech pac.org you can share it with your network but most importantly you can start living The Pledge by doing this plus one uh and this is where I think the power of difference can be leveraged and plus one just really ask you to do these things just add one to something that you do every day on a regular basis you choose the regular basis righ
t either it's daily weekly monthly annually you pick that basis um and adding one just means read a book you wouldn't otherwise read you know listen to a song you wouldn't otherwise listen to take someone to lunch that you wouldn't otherwise take to lunch right work with a vendor that you wouldn't otherwise work with add a candidate to a slate that you wouldn't otherwise do if we do that if we do that as a group right you know our Network effect will be a force multiplier to us achieving the obj
ectives of the tech pack and so my challenge to each and every one of you is just add one I mean just add one I mean listen to a podcast that you wouldn't otherwise listen to right just add one and if you can do that you can make a difference in this world right the other two levers are pretty simple there's the partnership lover where we're talking about how do we you know part partner with organizations that are doing this great work right with either time Talent OR treasure right and help the
m produce these great resources and then the last leverage storytelling like I've done here is just go out and tell your story right and you can tell your story through a podcast you can tell your story through a Boke report you can tell your story one to another right each of these methodologies will actually help us make a difference in this world and so that's kind of you know you know my testimony for the tech pack and I I think is uh it's a fantastic easy thing to do just go ahead and you t
hink of your plus one and share it with me I would love to you know share mine with you no absolutely I I I love it I love it really do um it actually really leads nicely to my last question that I had here's different but I think it's all about this network effect and it's all about the plus one and it's it boils down to why we started work cado as a company frankly because a little bit we felt that in technology uh people were uh very much focusing on the technology itself on like what it does
and does really well but kind of almost forgetting a little bit of the adoption like how hard it was actually to use how hard that plus one how hard it was to get other people involved in the in in in the technology if that makes sense so our our sense when we started workato was almost like hey if we can do 80% of what the other tools doing it but we can do it twice as easy to adopt I think we have got a total winner of a of a technology so I'm I'm just curious how you think about this adoptio
n of technology is a big is a big deal I think you know how do you what's your thinking of like kind of removing friction easing like making that plus one in a way the the adoption of technology in a company easier what's your take on that I think that's a a great a great question and adoption to me is the seventh wonder of the world right and so when I think about adoption you know I think about it this way I think we've got to go from installation to realization of technology in our businesses
um in the only way to get from installation to realization of the benefits and the outcomes that you wanted to generate is through adoption and utilization and so uh I think adoption is is measured by you know what is the what how many people within my target population for this particular technology are actually using it uh but then I think you add on to that utilization and how do I codify the best user right of that technology and then take that best user's habits and behaviors right and the
n translate that across my entire adopted you know univ Universe of users uh and make everyone better so how do I lift the entire user pool right and so I think about both of those things adoption and utilization right and how do we do that in technology and so I think that also requires to have new roles uh and those new roles are you know let's call it the digital Anthropologist right or the technology Anthropologist right so we need to think about having and hiring and creating technology ant
h apologists right who are going out there to see how our Technologies is being used in the real world right so they're going to use ethnography they're going to use different methodologies to go out there and observe you know people using the technology right and then come back and help us create better technology that is much easier to use and much easier to adopt right and so if we can get if we can create those technology you know Anthropologist and you know and hopefully you know we get peo
ple around this this kind of capability who can go out there and and see how technolog is actually being used in the real world we can then maximize utilization and adoption um and so I think that that's a that's how I think about it I think that's the that's the way of the future because again the benefits of Technology are only through adoption and utilization in fact I heard a great story you know this idea what are the benefits of an exercise bike right you know and so often you know when yo
u're buying your exercise bike and you're looking at it you're saying well this bike comes with an online content you know this bike has uh you know the latest features it actually get up updates online you know it has automatic braking you know it can speed up when I need it to speed up uh so it has all these features right but features are not benefits right you know the actual outcome of of an exercise bike is actually if you use it to exercise and so if you know if you you know you know if y
ou're not using the bike to exercise and the exercise is not leading you to a healthier lifestyle then you know the online thing is that's just a feature right and so that's that's where adoption utilization just think about that so if I really want the outcomes that are you know visited on me because I have this exercise bike I actually have to go exercise right and I have to actually use it adopt the bike use it uh and then I get the outcomes of healthier living and lifestyle so that's the sam
e way with technology right the installation of the technology is like the installation of the bike right you know if you know you're not using it and producing those outcomes it's just been installed wow it's you know I let me tell you first of all thank you Earl for for being on the show I mean I had a lot of fun I hope you I hope you did uh I'm not sure if the audience uh notice it it but you know we went through all the a lot of the things that the books talks about the process the growth an
d the the scale mindset but we didn't even talk about it we talked about jazz we talked about anthropology and uh I think it's just fascinating I uh uh I want to thank you for sharing you with them I mean you you've seen your share of experience and I think it's uh just fascinating so thank you so much for being on the show today I appreciate it thank you very much thank you so much for tuning into today's episode if you like what you heard we do have a special offer for you if you share this or
any other episode of the podcast on LinkedIn with the # TM for the new automation mindset that's t n a m our team will reach out to you and make sure you get a free hardcover copy of the book by our workato CEO Vella please make sure to rate today's episode leave us a comment with your thoughts and subscribe to the show so you will never miss an episode I'll see you next [Music] time
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