Ellen Pompeo & Katherine Heigl | Actors on Actors

will be very nice and not name the executive who almost took a nap on Shonda Rhimes we won't I won't say I'm not saying but he almost slept on Shonda Rhimes almost didn't air that pilot yeah to research and find out who it was yeah anywho imagine being that guy I think he still is that guy yeah it's a Vineyard now oh [Music] [Applause] [Music] Rock Paper Scissors Shoot not you you're more professional you don't have a good memory no okay so let's start there do you have a memory of when we met b

ecause I was thinking and I don't remember when we met I don't have a specific specific memory of the first time but I remember that first week before we started filming the pilot and I remember Peter Horton had us doing all those actor exercises didn't we do the like falling back in like the trust Falls and then we like sat in a circle and like laying our heads in each other's laps and like I don't know it was like all trust exercises that's right good memory it was nice yeah yeah I don't remem

ber I remember you had my baby shower for me I did I had by the way I still have all those photos I meant to put together an album for you I know it's been 13 years and it's not too late is it no no okay great are you kidding yeah I love those you would love the photos and they still pop up sometimes like this time 13 years ago and it just brings back so many incredible memories you were so pregnant and I was everyone was there like the crew the cast it was just it was really kind of a great day

so how old is your oldest my oldest newly Moon is 14. so she was just a year older I almost exactly isn't Stella September yes yeah so Nelly came to us at nine months around September and you were just about to have Stella Luna so we were kind of in the boat together together it was really interesting so has naylee seen the show do you no no I I haven't gone there yet with her Stella has right you've watched it together in sixth grade which I thought was a bit crazy knowing what's in those yeah

I remember especially um I was like oh in sixth grade they've all seen and she was like Mom I'm the only one who hasn't seen it it's it's a little embarrassing and weird so I said okay so in the summer she started watching it and at first I was like oh this is so amazing and we're gonna watch it together and then it was like episode after episode after episode and I was just like I don't have the stamina I filmed all these episodes I did it I can't now go back and watch it again I mean I watche

d a lot of them and what's interesting is I had not really watched a lot of Gray's because we were always working when I was on I watched every episode when it aired I was anxious to see how it all turned out you know yeah see me that was like not good for my mind to do that so I avoided that so many many of the episodes I was seeing for the first time with stells that's incredible yeah it's really interesting and it's pretty cool to be a part of something that's lasted this long that now they c

an go back and see like when you see your daughter's face and she watches you I mean a lot of people don't have the privilege to be able to say like oh their kids get to see what they do every day yeah right like you can talk about that with her and watch it with her you know I feel like I would just be like there would be scenes that I would be so embarrassed to be sitting next to her watching yeah for sure that I'd be like when we fast forward the first moment yeah sex with the ghost yeah that

yeah the second one maybe that right maybe like everything maybe they're like oral sex with the ghost well if somebody else was watching in the room like I don't know I didn't want to explain that but um do you remember the deer yes and I worked with that deer again can you believe it I'm not kidding I'm not exaggerating I'm serious I worked with that deer like years later on a different show I was doing and it was like this moment where my character is driving a car in this beautiful deer stop

s and crosses the road like a dark road with no one around but in the city and she has this moment and I'm like I saved that deer on Gray's Anatomy you knew for sure it was the same year they told me oh they told us but it would be amazing if I had recognized this Hollywood deers have resumes yeah absolutely they're like Catherine remember when you took this photo with the deer this is the same deer yeah good times we also had a lion on the show Once too I don't think I was there for that there

was there was I don't know what episode or what season but there was a scene with Meredith in a car and in a lion why I don't oh neat wow incredible yeah the imagery just gorgeous 19 Seasons the surprise there isn't a giraffe I mean um Good Times really good yeah for sure it's definitely a way to make a living yeah yeah very serious way yeah really serious serious work very serious um when did you know that Gray's was a hit the first indication was do you remember we filmed the whole first seaso

n yeah it was going to air on Sunday night after desperate households that's right and then we came into work the next day and everybody was freaking out the ratings for the numbers were so good yeah and then those numbers I mean I don't even know if people can count that high anymore back then when you look at Network numbers now you're like oh yeah and then we went on hiatus yes and then the show was airing yes as we were on break and I'm so grateful there was no social media then I know we li

terally would be I know we would have lost our minds even more than we already lost yeah it didn't take a lot no Matt was really just gonna throw it way over the edge no I just remembered that we were I was nervous at least I think that they were not going to air it there was a moment where um it was unclear if they were they were going to air it they didn't like it remember they changed the name they tried to change the name do you remember that day on set no that is a a day I really remember b

ecause the mood on set was like oh where they're going to change the name of the show to complications and it was just like somebody had died and everybody on set felt that we've been working so hard we love this show so much and if they changed the name to this it'll never go it's a horrible title and it was just this Collective like morning on set but that only lasted for a day or two I don't even yeah like I don't remember that but I just remember them like it was it felt like the the network

or the studio somebody didn't quite like what we were doing and it was unclear if they were even going to air it and then they did and just what you said happened and then we had to go to upfronts and everything had changed and happy to be here this will be very nice and not named the executive who almost took a nap on Shonda Rhimes we won't I won't say I'm not saying but he almost slept on Shonda Rhimes almost didn't air that pilot yeah to research and find out who it was yeah yeah anyway imag

ine being that guy I think he still is that guy yes he owns a Vineyard now um so then we ended up in now we were in the liquor store yeah yeah so then we ended up in New York for the upfronts going to promote the second season or you know do that whole thing and it was crazy Alan people were stopping us on the street like New Yorkers were stopping us on the street to tell us how much they love the show and it was truly water cooler like experience for yeah have you been to New York it's still ha

ppening you can't believe it you're like wait what is yeah but now they're all like 14. yeah yes now they're all 14. but it was incredible I just I was like I was just so incredibly relieved I was just thrilled in every sense of the word I was like on cloud nine because it just felt like a lifetime of trying to get something into the world that people actually wanted to watch and like that like overnight that show hit and you had been on Roswell before that and not a very small how many seasons

very devoted audience of Roswell we did three I think yeah three just three seasons and that's wonderful and great but it didn't have a big audience which is why we didn't have more seasons and why we were always like afraid is it gonna go another season it's always that anxiety you know of am I going to be out of a job and Grace turned it all around literally overnight and it wasn't overnight for any of us but the success of the show was almost overnight which is crazy yeah that anxiety is why

I stayed for so long is like that thought of all actors have that figure out when the next job is and where do I have to go and where yeah yeah and you are like as soon as one ends that you're you're out of work right and you might feel confident that you'll get more work but you are in the moment out of work so you better be prepared for that you know and it's that's the nature of this particular job yeah but like do you feel with Meredith like are you letting her go or is she coming with you o

h no I have been on the show so long I am happy to let that go yeah you know we're past that point the truth is what becomes challenging is for me I really need to make sense of things and I really need to see Evolution and growth and with Network television specifically there has to be some consistency for the audience the audience wants familiarity the writers get stuck in the consistency of something and it's harder which we have such an incredible fan base they're so loyal they'll literally

come along with us no matter what we do I think it's okay for Meredith to stop making bad decisions or you know be able to like one of my frustrations is sort of the the Nick and Meredith of it all Scott Speedman plays Meredith's love interest Nick Marsh and I love Speedman he's fantastic and somehow Meredith can't figure out how to make a relationship work still after all this time yeah and I guess if she were to make it work then where's the conflict you know there has to be conflict and it's

not that I don't think there shouldn't be conflict there should be conflict I guess I have just have different ideas about what the conflict which that looks like yeah I called you know I know this has been a lot of fire living in a hotel moving no I know it's been alive but what was your plan you're just gonna leave and not call me back and you're going to move across the country without a conversation I I I I don't get that felt so happy to be able to step away yeah and felt like I accomplishe

d something incredible um everywhere as I'm sure everywhere you go yes people just run up to me and say I love you yeah it's weird and strange but it's just love coming at me so lovely and it's what I find disconcerting is how young those people are that are coming up now I didn't understand what was happening I was like I don't understand how you've even seen this show I don't think you were alive when we started it right now Netflix and it took me a minute I'm a little slow but I finally figur

ed out like oh they're streaming it on that that's why they're watching it on Netflix this younger generation and I had this girl I just had Joshua so maybe I didn't look my best all right I literally just had him but I was in the liquor store again I just had a baby I needed some wine and uh this girl this man comes with me and goes excuse me I'm so sorry but my daughter is such a you know she's kind of freaking out over here would you mind talking to her for a minute and I was like yes of cour

se sure come on over honey you know she goes um are you do you know Gray's Anatomy and I was like yeah and she goes do you know um Izzy Stevens and I go yeah she goes are you her mother I was like how old are you she was like I'm 17. I was like go don't ever talk to me again but that's what's happening I mean thankfully that hasn't happened again but it's 17 year olds and 15 year olds and you know seriously kids that were not born when we started the show coming up and going oh my God are you th

e girl on Gray's Anatomy right and um it's shocking and wonderful and and lovely and adorable that they love it so much but they do I mean perhaps there are other shows that have had that kind of rebirth with a younger generation um especially because of Netflix and that your ability to go and stream something that a lot of them friends oh yeah friends of course Gossip Girl is a big one really kids love Gossip Girl that's what Stella's watching right now I don't know I watched that when it was o

n and I I don't want Nelly to know that kids can do that kind of stuff oh she's gonna find it on Tick Tock I'm sure that's well aware she's gonna know I prefer my bubble have you seen Euphoria no oh I mean no we are definitely not watching that that's very upsetting I want I tried and it's a no no so okay so this is a real thing so my daughter and her friends you know they sit around and they're like oh she's a pick me girl oh my God is that what that means yes so I'm like what's a pick me girl

oh no so they were like you know pick me girls who are like excuse me pick me choose me and I'm like do you hello do you know who invented the picnic girl and listen I I don't know if you remember that I fought that speech so hard yes that's another like really interesting thing about life is some things that I was like so against I was like why would I beg a man I can't beg a man on TV this is so embarrassing so hard right and then it turns out to be like one of the most successful scenes or th

e most favorite it was beautiful ever so pick me choose me love me I didn't know that that's what that meant because my daughter has said it to me so what does that mean she's a pick me girl and she goes well you know she's just like wants a lot of attention and wants people to like pick her choose her and I was like Oh and it didn't register right and now I'm like I just it's crazy it's crazy when art starts to like bleed into your life do you remember the scene I remember my mom called you aft

er you've done a particularly complicated difficult emotional scene and had like called to tell you how proud of you she was and that she thought you were just such a beautiful job with it and I was talking to her about it recently because she obviously hope she says hello by the way she loves loves you so much um but Nancy should have her own show yeah she's We've joked about her having a podcast or something and she wants to call it's just my opinion I went please don't please don't do this it

will end everything anyway but I don't remember I said Mom what scene was it and she was like I think it was with her mother like on the episode with um Kate and do you remember I don't remember but I've always had an incredible relationship with your mother we've always gotten along great yeah she just loves him my mother loves strong women yeah she she she is a hoot she's amazing mother well she just loves you and that there's so many wonderful things that came out of the show like those kind

s of relationships and um we did have a lot of fun sometimes too much fun I remember a Friday nights were sometimes a little too much fun Saturdays yeah with like you have to understand like people you have to understand it's like a Friday night two in the morning and you gotta run real cow bow does anybody know what running cowbells yeah see it's like the intestines and you have to find Judy dolls that's right oh Jesus yeah but we used to use this is a animal this is terrible and Katie would al

ways Advocate and try to speak up and say things but we used a lot of real animal parts yeah in the surgeries back in the day and what happens is after hours and hours and hours Under The Lights you know it obviously starts to smell terrible you're wearing a mask so that helps but it's just not the most pleasant experience it's Peter tired and you're staring at this cow heart and bowel and it's just like yeah it's I just remember by like I want to say season two it would become so desensitized t

o it in a way that we would like take our second meal and we'd be standing on our marks like eating like like Ramen over the cow intestine so they'd be like okay we're ready to go and you'd be like okay thank you so much for looking for the Judy dolls you know like we just stopped caring it was so that's when you know that you're like you know things have gone too far that's actually the one place in the OR is when memories will come flooding back too that's so interesting yeah we had a lot of f

un and I think every one of us sort of ended up on that table didn't we yeah for sure I think everyone was on it you were the first patient of Seattle like first doctor that became a patient of Seattle Grace right did I get blown up no no you didn't blow up I almost blew up you almost blew up Katie but Kyle Chandler blew up but then he blew up no he didn't blow up oh no he did blow up right here yeah and then Sandra I think ended up and then Sandra ended up in the hospital bed because she had a

Utopia how do you say that etopic pregnancy right I remember that because I didn't even know that that kind of thing Could Happen kudos to Shonda Rhimes for talking about that stuff yeah no you know for changing the entire dialogue of network television and at a time that you know really didn't have women in those kinds of roles or positions in the story didn't have as much diversity I was young I wasn't paying that much attention it just it felt like a job but a great job but a job but I didn't

realize it was as impactful you know as it as it kind of was you know hindsight is 20 20. yes always it gives you great perspective and it's definitely a gift to have that there's so many memories so many really good memories so many times where we laughed so much and so hard and the crew was so mad at us because we couldn't pull our [ __ ] together to get through a take you know I remember the prom yeah sleeping on the floor of the hospital of that VA hospital in Northridge I remember cutting

the lvad wire oh yeah in that room that was where you were filming that scene Meredith wasn't in that scene that's right you come in after but I I was like standing in the hallway when you were guys and there was like no one actually even wanted you to do that scene we're like like oh that whole storyline was so intriguing to me and it was really fun it was fun to do and Jeffrey Dean Morgan is a dream to work with and a great guy and that was all really fun and I wanted so badly to nail that sce

ne right I just wanted it to feel the way it was written on the page I wanted it to be as like heart-wrenching and all of the things and I don't usually do this as an actor I don't like do that whole go into the dark place and listen to the like really the music that's gonna tear my soul apart and think about all the things in my life that and the worst was that I like really went there and recalled because I was seven when my brother died but we were in the hospital for a week and I don't enjoy

thinking about that much or that week in the hospital or him in that bed but I chose to do that for that scene and I don't think I would put myself in that headspace again to achieve that I think I would try harder to just act it you know well but those moments are what made the show as iconic as it is right I think that's why it's still around yeah because of the foundation that we laid was so strong so you're all welcome okay [Laughter] um albeit painful but but worth it yeah because art is a

lways worth it because people watch that scene and and it's cathartic for them they feel something I'm sure I hope so most people have lost people and you know everybody loves a good cry so yeah we made people feel things Katie and that is the biggest gift as an actor to be able to make people feel yeah is um I think pretty cool I do too I think it's the point for me at least I just want to go out there and do that yeah this is what I do for a living you know so you live in Utah and do you ever

bring nearly or the kids here to La let's see I haven't been back to LA except today um in two years a lot of filming now is in the last two projects I've done I've been Canada I can't bring them as much anymore because they're 14 and 11 and they're I to take them out of their peer groups and their you know School groups and their activities um they're just not down for it in the same way they used to be it kind of breaks my heart yeah for sure it's gotta be it's lonely it is a very Gypsy like l

ifestyle but now with the kids and being a mother it's like I don't want to go alone and I did go alone for all of firefly Lane and it was brutal and I'm parenting via FaceTime and at one point I didn't even have my dogs [Laughter] Eileen okay okay so there were two books written for for fun lane or three yes there are two books the first is Firefly lane and then I didn't actually read the second book because it's post the story we were telling okay so we didn't tell that book that we didn't get

into that story but yeah it has a very definitive ending Kate dies so [ __ ] did I just I'm so sorry did I ruin that for everyone what I mean brutal but that's so brutal the amazing thing about streaming is there is a beginning a middle and an end yes which is you know on network television the challenge is yeah you don't know yeah and you have no idea going into Network like are we going to have the opportunity to really tell this whole story or are we gonna you know are we gonna end before we

could begin right or are we gonna go so long and be unprepared to continue the story so with yeah with streaming it was really that was my first experience doing anything for for streaming and it was I mean I loved it I had an extraordinary experience are you a producer on that as well yeah this is totally hurt bringing the news straight to you this is Telly oh heart about to burn the office down with my curling iron this is Tully heart bringing the news straight to you it's odd what they're do

ing so essentially it's a season two that they shot 16 episodes and then decided to air in two parts so let's just call it three seasons and because that's what it feels like to me right that's a lot of episodes though for a streaming shows 16 episodes it was and I think it was like always intended conceivably that they would split it into two parts okay but I liked it and I didn't you know it's the same it's nine months or I guess maybe a little less than nine months because Gray's is about nin

e months a year right for those 20. we do less episodes now since we've never done 24 again but because that's beautiful it's like you know that's most of the year and you're on and you're committed and you're in it at least 12 hours a day and so anything else kind of has to fall to the back but the good part of that was just we were in the rhythm of it we're already here we're already filming let's get those last six instead of having to come back and re-team up and the scripts are already writ

ten when you start are they finished or they're oh writers many of them which which I also really like yeah so we had at least the first four already written and ready before we started filming I always felt with network television you're always like right down to the wire with that script coming in night before we start shooting the episode which just feels like sensory overload sometimes and frenetic but I can't even imagine what those writers have to go through to do that I don't think that t

hey could have dropped all 16 at once it would have been overwhelming I feel I think the audience needed a breath before this last bit because it gets really heavy intense yeah and then you at least are able to shake that right off and go home and be with your kids that took a minute yeah I had a hard time letting Tully go like it was hard to disassociate or something oh I know women aren't supposed to be angry hurt or sad sure but angry better hide it better lock that up but I am angry with the

man who is suing me he took my show he took my voice so I'm taking it back there was so much about her that really intimidated me she's incredibly confident she's incredibly self-assured she's got a bit of an ego on her and she's just really like walks into any situation you know feeling like she's gonna kill it and I just thought I don't know I related more to Kate and the struggle between like being a working mother and all of that and I remember the time Josh said Katie you you want to you k

now you're looking for a character that feels challenging to you do the one that scares you and I was like okay and then I ended up really borrowing a lot of Tully for me and so then I felt like you know having to Let Her Go am I going to lose those bits of her that influenced who I've become and I just really fell in love with that friendship and fell in love with Sarah chalky and Chuck she calls herself Chucky um that's like therapy you get paid for I guess so yeah I guess so exactly um well t

ell me about because there's a couple of things I've been sort of fascinated as my as I've gotten older as I've kind of evolved as an actor and the idea of directing really interested me um and still interested interests me to a degree but I find it really intimidating how did that come about on Grays so I think around season 12 Shonda Rhimes brought in Debbie Allen you know with any long-running show you need gusts of wind to blow in right to shake things up and try to keep the energy alive and

keep it going in a positive direction and she could you know see that I was restless and so she suggested it she's a you know big director among every other thing that she does and she was really encouraging me to do it that's awesome and I love her so much so I was like you know what for you I will do it and she taught me you know how to do that first one so that was like you know having one of the best teachers you can have it was a really interesting experience that the script that I ended u

p getting it was about a character losing their mother Kelly mccreary's mother would pass away played by Latonya Jackson and you know me losing my mother at such a young age has shaped my whole entire life yeah so I was like wow this is kind of wild it was a really amazing episode and to her credit Shonda let my cut air that's incredible yeah which is really unusual yes definitely you did not have to do that yeah and it's funny I went to Las Vegas last night to see a show and somebody stopped me

and said the episodes you directed were my favorite okay that's incredible no one's ever said that to me before so that was kind of cool so I did that episode my cut Aaron why I loved it was because it's showing the audience what my version of an episode of Gray's Anatomy looks like yeah what I always thought if I'm going to direct episodes this is what it should be and then I did it one more time and it was completely changed and I thought it didn't really make sense for me to do all of that w

ork right than to have someone come in and say we're not going to use that we're going to use this we're not going to use that song we're going to use this song and then it didn't look anything like what I had envisioned right and so it didn't make sense to do all that work and not have keep it going yeah yeah so then I I don't do it anymore I would say that you shouldn't be intimidated the truth is is on a show like Gray's it's so established it has to be a certain formula right well where's th

e fun in that you know it's not very creative right TV directing is not it's not a creative thing so then is it about more like that conversation with the actors is it more about like the music like where do you get to put your creative stamp on it I I wouldn't say Network TV is the place to do that okay obviously there's exceptions to the rule I think Alaska Daily is a beautifully directed show it's on ABC and it stars Hilary Swank you've just given me something to watch thinking yeah I've just

been reading lately oh so what's the last thing you watched that you loved Daisy Jones and the six oh okay okay Jenkins read yeah I love that so much did you read the book I did years ago and I remember my sister-in-law like text me like Josh would be a great Billy Graham and I was like have you seen Josh on camera it wasn't too much acting I thought that was hilarious but so I was really intrigued to see it actually on film and I thought they did such a beautiful job with that I was riveted I

loved it so much and no I did not watch out with the kids I mean because I'm always looking for something that we can watch as a family I mean we've got some big age you know differences I did watch Jenny and Georgia with Nelly but I had to stop it a lot right we're gonna fast forward through that part or just even be like can I explain this moment to you because you know I didn't watch it it's great I loved it it's really fun and I actually loved watching it with her because I felt like it gave

me an opportunity to do some guidance through TV storylines it's my favorite way to parent um but it's not for Adelaide it's not for the 11 year old and my six-year-old of course is not gonna watch it so there's not a lot we can watch together aside from animated but what do you watch other than Grace with Stella um I don't watch a lot with Stella except you know we were watching Gray's I loved White Lotus I didn't let her watch I thought that was amazing did you watch it I watched like the fir

st maybe four or five episodes and then I don't know why we stopped we must have yeah it's so good okay and then the other perfect show was a show called the offer and I can't believe it's about the making of The Godfather oh my God yes do you watch it yes I can't believe every single actor on that show didn't get every award nomination I just thought they were so they were incredible and so was our Justin Church Justin Chambers oh my God so so good he was so good and like he literally looks jus

t like him and I've always said that we've always said that about yeah we kind of always did this sort of like you're the Marlin you know like that's crazy because he really nailed it and he was it was so fun to see him in that role yeah it was a great show yeah so those are my two favorites recently excellent okay so yeah Ellen I mean it's it is really sort of devastating for the world that Meredith has left Seattle Grace [Applause] it's very thoughtful and ridiculous because I'm only going to

Boston and you know I'll probably be here next week God says great will you just let us toast you Meredith Gray [Applause] first of all what was it like that last day on set so it's a little bit of trickery because I'm not completely gone oh what I am in the finale oh my God the storyline is very cool I don't want to give too much away but there's a lot of real research that's changing very rapidly about Alzheimer's disease and about what they believe is the cause of Alzheimer's disease it's pre

tty controversial so Meredith's character left to go to Boston because her daughter needed to go to a special school and Jesse Williams character Jackson lives in Boston and he offered her a job to work at that hospital and do research so the character moves to Boston and then in the finale we catch up with her and see what she's been working on oh fascinating I will be making some appearances hopefully next year um no it's not a complete it's not a complete goodbye um and I and I think we've go

t an interesting story to tell I certainly think it's pretty fascinating yeah a medical piece of it is pretty fascinating and then I just have to I'm going to shoot a show for Hulu yeah um so you're gonna do that we're going to start that in September we're going to start the Hulu show in September and the the working title is uh the orphan gonna be a very interesting role to play I mean I haven't played another character in 18 years yeah that's crazy yeah crazy town um and this one is um it's i

ntense and so it'll be an interesting experiment for me to see you know I'm super excited to do it I love the team it's been really fun to develop something new and you know we're just gonna cross our fingers and jump out of the plane and pull the Chute and I hope that [ __ ] opens yeah you know I love it but that's okay I've seen from you that you kind of approach things like that you don't let much stop you miss Ellen I think that's amazing no and I it makes me think about the first movie I ev

er saw you in and I was sort of just enamored instantly and I feel like the world was in Moonlight Mile and then I thought about it and I was like well you were working with Dustin Hoffman and Susan Sarandon and Jake Gyllenhaal was that it all intimidating or oh yeah I completely choked my first day on set I was terrified and I was just I can't picture it I really you know was like it was like Al Pacino's Moment On The Godfather when the studio was like what's he doing get him out of there um th

ey were like what are you doing if we were gonna get fired you are gonna get fired I like couldn't pull it together on my first day okay I had like a nine page scene where I'm like jumping in the mailbag grabbing the cat walking over here and I I really I couldn't walk and talk at the same time I like just showed up in this movie with all these people Holly Hunter and Susan and Dustin yeah I really choked and almost got fired that first day they were just like we got a live one here oh my God sn

ap out of it kids and you did and then and then I did um someone came and talked to me and my trailer at lunch oh I think it was Dustin and he said you only need to be good in very small pieces they're gonna shoot this and they edit it right stop thinking because it was an eight page it was super intimidating because it was eight pages and I was thinking I had to nail it nail this whole entire thing all the way through and he was like you only have to be good in pieces stop putting so much press

ure on yourself wow and um and that was amazing advice I give it to people now I gave it to the new cast of interns that came onto Gray's yeah it stayed with me that piece of advice that's great advice and I'm gonna remember it and and the movie turned out okay that's a great yeah it's beautiful so one of the things that is so obvious about Grace and why the show has impacted people so much is because we were so emotional right we were able to generate so much emotion and it always results in am

azing performances whether actors are torturing themselves or who are torturing each other um the result is good and the writers know that and when Izzy left it was just so much going on and it's really hard to show up on set when there's so much and then there wasn't even social media I know so much because you can even imagine because it felt like there was a lot of attention on everything we did there was time there was and everything was Amplified and that added to the emotion and somehow th

at made the scenes better and that made the show better and that made the show more popular and then Izzy leaves the show and that was emotional for everybody yeah I think I was like up here you know in my headspace in my gut in my mind in my life I was just vibrating at way too high of a level of anxiety so for me it's kind of all a bit of a blur and it took me years to learn how to deal with that to master it well I can't even say that I've mastered it I'm but to even know to work on it that k

ind of anxiety and fear and uh just you know stress is stress everybody experiences stress everybody goes through those times in their lives and if you leave stress too long unmanaged and uh unaddressed it can be debilitating but I also feel like and this is not specific to the character of Izzy leaving but stress on sets I know a lot of actors I hear a lot of stories I don't hear about a lot of support yeah and that's one of the things I try to do now as a producer is specifically on Gray's is

try to offer support try to have a place for people to talk through things to talk about things for actors to feel heard that's huge because the anxiety and the stress is overwhelming yeah and actors are typically young yeah and emotional creatures and are meant to just get on with it and deal with it there's no examples of positivity there was no one teaching me how to behave right there was no one to tell me this is okay this is not okay you see someone doing this oh well okay well I'll just d

o that because that seems to work it was just look at it look at it look at it look at it let's look at it right but let's all just stand around and look at it and talk about it but let's not actually try to do something meaningful to solve it calm it down and I worry about young actors when I see things I see young actors on shows or you hear things or whatever and you just know that there's probably not a lot of support yeah if they're portraying drug addicts on shows and they're everybody kno

ws they're a drug addict in real life and everybody knows you know and it's like we're fine to exploit that because it's a successful show and it's making a lot of money and no one really cares and that person could end up dead and then it'll be everybody will be like oh my God yeah you know whoa you know we didn't see that coming really because probably everybody saw it coming yeah there's a very exploitive nature to what we do yeah um thank God now you know there are I mean intimacy coordinato

rs create a whole another slew of problems that's I mean that but the intention behind it is good yeah the execution is always sometimes weird because how do you train to be an intimacy coordinator I had this experience on um Firefly Lane I'm like I'm an old Hollywood broad [ __ ] I know what I'm doing you don't have to tell me how to make out on camera okay like it was like I was so awkward about it I was like why are you this is such an odd conversation and I ended up loving this woman so deep

ly and being so grateful for her because she protected us in a way that I didn't realize how unprotected we were I I didn't even really quite realize having somebody else stand there and say she won't do that right find another way to shoot it I was like or find another way to write it that's great I don't have to be the bad guy and she's protecting me and I was so grateful to her as well because we did have young girls on the set they were playing Kate until he at 14 and 15 and they had you kno

w stuff they had to do there was a rape scene and for her to be there protecting them I was like oh I felt this weight off of me in a way that I didn't feel like I had to somehow find a way to fight those battles for these girls and you know I'm always the bad guy it's just people like me to be the bad guy I like giving them that you know we can make each other happy you know um not to interrupt you no please there's two roles women fit into yeah the victim or villain I'm always available it's o

ne thing and and the women who are victims are only victims because they don't have the guts to be the villain uh you should write a book I will do the cover illustration unliked another Super profound thing that someone said to me my manager John carabino who was a charismatic gentleman and always has very wise words had a big negotiation and they did peace in The Hollywood Reporter about it and and there was a lot of anxiety around it and he said are you prepared to be unpopular and I had no i

dea what he was talking about yeah and I said you know what do you mean and he said well when this article comes out and they talk about how much money you make you will instantly become the least popular person on set no one will be happy for you right so you have to be okay with not being liked and when you get to a certain level of success if you're not okay with certain people not liking you some people are not going to like you if you can't handle that then you'll only always be a victim ye

ah no that's fascinating I love that and I think I was so naive listen I went and I got my soapbox and I put my soapbox down and I got onto my soapbox and I had some things to say and I felt really passionate about this stuff and I felt really strongly I felt so strongly that I really I also got a megaphone out on my soapbox but I had no there was no part of me that imagined a bad reaction I felt really justified in how I felt about it you know and where I was coming from so it took me a minute

to really stop being the victim because of the reaction that I got and finding and tuning out all that noise because I'd been I'd spend most of my life I think most women do kind of being in that people pleasing mode it's really disconcerting when you feel like you have really displeased everybody you know and it was not my intention to do so but I had some things to say you know and I didn't think I was going to get such a strong reaction and so it took me until like probably my mid to late 30s

to really get back to tuning out all of the noise and going no but who are you who are you without all of the opinions of who you are are you this bad person are you ungrateful are you um are you unkind are you unprofessional are you difficult are you these things because I was confused I thought maybe I was you know and I I literally believed that version and felt such shame for such a long time and then had to go wait wait who's who am I listening to I'm not even listening to myself I know wh

o I am I I don't need anybody to tell me who I am and there are very few people whose opinion of me really truly matters um and I would I I would say that everybody in this world needs to find a way to let their opinions of themselves be the most important thing that matters but I I think that's difficult there's going to be people in your life like your mother or your father or your best friend or your spouse whose opinion matters to you about what they think of you but those are the those are

the few for me at this point and I think that's when I got really comfortable with my role as the villain you know it's really enjoyed it listen me are you listening um the most amazing thing about your soapbox and your megaphone is that you were just a little early because they came out with this thing pay for it where everybody's got up their own box and their own megaphone and they get a blue check yeah it's called Twitter and everybody gets on their box with their megaphone and they tell eve

rybody they tell everybody off they tell everybody what they should do what they shouldn't do what they should say what they shouldn't say everybody's got an opinion now yeah so you were just a little head ahead of your time ladies damn it I should have waited for Twitter be huge because now it's like the irony of all of that noise is we have that noise every day now yeah everybody's got an opinion everybody's slamming everybody everybody's criticizing everybody for everything that they're doing

yeah but the difference is is they're not beautiful and successful and all of them can can hide behind that phone yeah and have opinions don't call us this call us this don't address me as this address me as that why did you let this happen how could you people live this long and let these things happen to you how did you women let all of this [ __ ] go down for so long there's so much judgment yeah and so much criticism on social media now you were just one person and somehow now collectively

the whole world gets to criticize everything and tell everybody to [ __ ] off and it's okay but when you did it yeah you know they didn't like me they didn't like you oh well what are you gonna do you're too hot Heigl is that much tell myself when I go to school no but they I mean listen nobody likes a competent woman they'd rather you be a woman looking for your confidence right and you actually be a Confident Woman because that makes them nervous I think for me like it was 40 I felt this in I

don't know what it was and maybe it's completely psychological but I just felt that 40 was freedom because I didn't have to be the young sweet naive people-pleasing ingenue anymore you know like I'd outgrown I don't know about the sweet part I don't know that you were I wouldn't describe you as sweet what are you trying to say a lot of amazing adjectives but sweet yeah it wasn't really that wasn't really one of them and that's what people had a problem with sweet they can handle yeah strong they

can't it was like I play I was I think I I would not trade anything from my 20s back absolutely had no idea who I was and what I wanted and who I was supposed to be and who to make happy and you know just massive lack of self-confidence and then Gray's hit and the success of Grace hit and I felt I think it was borrowed confidence you're also a child actor yeah you also grew up on sets being told what to do where to go what to say what to feel what to think what to eat when to eat when to sleep

yeah so the psychological accumulation of that control yeah I liked it because in a way it made life easier right like somebody else is I don't have to make any choices for myself benefit results in some sort of behavior but then you grow you get older and you're like they expect you to make some choices for yourself and I'm like what um and then Gray's hit and the success happened and I think that gave me this confidence that was it was a false sense of confidence so it wasn't rooted in anythin

g real it was rooted in something that couldn't and maybe wouldn't always last for me do you know so then I I started getting real mouthy because um I did have a lot to say and there were certain boundaries and things that I was not okay with being crossed if you cannot stand up for yourself in this industry very few people will stand up for you so you'd better learn how to and you better be okay with them not liking you for it and that's a privilege to even get to that position but you have to

get there even before you there are so many I could try to say this and it just it terrifies me um it terrifies me for the young girls it terrified me for Roan and Ali on on Firefly Lane it terrifies me because I understand the position they're in I understand it I was there I get it I remember but you have to fight and you have to be brave and if it all goes away because you fought and you were Brave and it all goes away because you know what it will not be worth it otherwise it will not be wor

th it it just won't it just won't and if they cannot support our actors and our youth and our and these kids that are out here busting their ass to make something work and make some story beautiful if they can't protect them then I will and I want them to protect themselves because I don't care if it ends their career I know they do but it's not a career worth having if you're bending all the time the incredible amount of attention that you got very quickly is another thing that is sort of like

a disease in this town and in this business where everybody gets built up built up built up built up built up they create this thing and then almost wait for something to happen not many people would know how to react to that much attention that much Focus that much pressure that it all of a sudden went from here to here and it was like who does know how to react or be who can be the most gracious perfect person when all that's no certainly some people are capable of it yeah okay Zendaya is capa

ble of it yeah she's great you know perfect and gorgeous yeah and and the most gracious young woman and and has handled an enormous amount of attention yeah and fame with incredibly impressive Grace yeah but not everybody can do that no and there has to be some forgiveness or some Grace for not everybody being able to handle every situation perfectly I've certainly never handled every situation perfectly and I'd like to see other people try to walk a mile in your shoes during that time and let's

see how they would have handled it well because you'd literally have to be almost superhuman like Zendaya is superhuman I think clearly me and my kids think she's she might be an alien a superstar um superhuman but it's it's easier said than done and it's easy to judge until you've walked a mile in those shoes um well this was fun it was so fun I love you I love seeing your face I love getting to sit across from you again it's been eight years I don't know I'm not counting I'm so young I think

that's perhaps the right choice too busy running circles running in circles well thank you I love being here with you I love this conversation I loved what we got to do together me too it was so fun and can we go eat I'm starving yeah we're gonna drink too right [Music] [Applause] [Music]