Еп384 | EN | Robert Vlach: Share what you know with others!

[Music] Hello! You are watching The Superhuman Podcast with Georgi Nenov - The podcast that shares an inspiring story every Tuesday. My guest today is Robert Vlach. He is Czech, therefore, our conversation will be held in English. Robert is the author of the book "The Freelance Way". In just a few minutes we will hear a bit more about him and his story. Now, I would like to thank the partners of the podcast for supporting this episode. [ My technical partners from Dynaphos - Video & Photo ] My M

emory it's still a city of art so you went to  Spain with uh knowing only English absolutely not I knew no no no sorry Spanish knowing no Spanish  English of course I I knew English but they my my my client dad he didn't know almost any English  so we sort of communicated through examples you know uh well the project started uh in a way  that we translated um an expert website for French uh professionals he had a friend in France  so he translated the French text to Spanish and I then I sort of

you know figured out how to put it  on a like u in a different form I was doing the it work and he was doing the translation and you  know all the expert stuff we communicated pretty well I believe he was a very temperamental person  uh he he was a maroe guy and he was working with um uh the company was actually working with u  heat and ventilation system so I was running the it division but they were doing also all  these installations you know and you know in that era you know there was a lot

lot of like  shady or gray area in business in Barcelona for example he told me one day that they have a  client uh a com sort of company that employs like 200 workers but it's not a registered company  they were just you know running the operation as a sort of like Street business you know it  wouldn't be possible possible these days money in envelopes I'm sorry money in envelopes I don't  know I don't know any details and he he sort of laughed about it I mean like they were working for  all ki

nds of stuff but this was a really serious business I was working for but the you know the  overall uh business environment was uh more you know informal than it is these days probably so  it's like 25 years ago right so this uh snapped it uh yeah your perception about having your own  business this this particular experience um how did it go from then on yeah um uh I sort of uh  well I sort of uh did websites for more people for small companies um my parents and so on uh  so that was that was q

uite okay but two important things happened at the time I believe first of all  uh other friends who were freelancing at the time saw that I was sort of freelancing internationally  that I'm pretty doing well so they started asking me questions so I started doing like one-on-one  Consulting sessions just helping them out um I also started to I also started to do some business  Consulting for companies mhm because uh since I was working in an industry that was like nent uh  this web uh developmen

t uh like portals and like big sites you know um some companies realize that  I have knowhow know technical but also business know how how to create these projects and they  approached me you know to help them uh to do the online switch so I also started to do um um  business Consulting that went back to my studies I was originally studying business so it was quite  familiar uh to me the the topic and I I started oriented this way a bit more and I got interested  in supporting Freelancers you kn

ow I really I'm quite extroverted and I really like being around  people you know talking to a lot of people and uh uh I realized that some of my friends who are  more introverted and a little bit shy about you know presenting themselves have issues you  know finding new clients so I sort of started small websites that presented their work uh it  was really very successful they were constantly getting leads from clients and they were sort of  like hey add this friend of mine or that one you know

but the websites were really small they were  not designed to be really large you know but then in 2004 I went to Mexico uh I loved uh Spanish  and hispan culture at the time so Mexico was a really like it was the go-to country you know  like I was so excited about being there I spent uh quarter year there uh lots of travels lots of  exploration and lots of uh long bus Journeys and on these bus Journeys there were no mobiles at  the time uh I had a couple of books but I read them like the day o

ne you know so I was sort of  you know like looking out of the window thinking and I realized hey come on I can probably turn  these small websites into something larger into a we sort of web portal and when I came back I  sort of like finished some client projects and started developing a large website for Freelancers  and that became eventually after a couple of years uh the largest check um at first the only one  but uh eventually really large uh website and Community for Freelancers so we cu

rrently Support  over quarter million people who follow us who listen to podcast who read the newsletter and so  on and it started really small it was what one men show at the beginning now we are like a dozen  people it's a it's still small team but uh we are trying to make uh as big impact as we can so that  was 2005 and from there on I sort of started uh inventing ways how to support Freelancers as as  entrepreneurs because uh I think of freelancing as a as of business you know the only probl

em  is that it's a different way of doing business than running a company like my parents did or than  like starting a startup and then having some exit strategy whatever you don't have a exit strategy  sh is a freelancer right like no you are you are there out for yourself and at at what time did the  idea for the book came to life how did it survive because uh I can imagine that you working handson  and uh uh next to all these Freelancers all these people that you talk to and they give you fee

dback  and they give you ideas and they uh share their own problems and stories so you um accumulated all  of this yeah that's right uh well as you as you have mentioned uh I'm quite a reader so uh I read  a lot perhaps 50 books a year on average um and uh I have this admiration for people who write books  you know it's uh it's I I always wanted to be a writer or something like that uh I had various  creative Ambitions when I when I was a teenager when I was a kid but it was always uh something

I  would aspire to one day uh and well of course the idea of writing a book occurred to me uh I wasn't  that ambitious to write it at first because I was sort of waiting if somebody will publish uh such a  book in check it didn't happen and I probably know why these days because most of these books are uh  written originally in the states and the states uh are quite different in freelancing Freelancers  have different mindset different attitudes they face much Graver risks in terms of you know n

ot  having uh health insurance for example uh they may also be more easily sued if they you know Miss  something so these books for American Freelancers that quite specific to the you know economy and  perhaps that is why why most Publishers sort of you know like opted not to publish them because  it would need some sort of transposition of the know how whatever uh so then I realized you know  after training Freelancers and working with the community after a few years the probably it has to  me

be me right because I was writing blog articles I was writing a lot but not books uh and then I  sort of like failed two times because I actually didn't know how to write a book I mean like how  can a male man fail with his book well you start and you realize that you uh that you don't know  how long it should be what should be the structure you don't have the means how to produce it you  know uh I wanted to write a great book you know so I'm always very ambitious in what I do so I  didn't want

to write just any you know collection of uh you know random ideas so I really wanted  to do something complex but I didn't know how to approach it I know it sounds sort of um ridiculous  you know but it it is I faced the wall of uh um a sort of wh wheel of ignorance I just didn't know  how to do it and then two things happened first of all I read the war of art uh by Steven pressfield  that became really a pivotal moment in my artist or creative journey I would say because I realized  that uh fo

r myself at least uh the resistance is a real thing that there is this inner Force you know  no matter how you call it that sort of sabotages you know your higher Ambitions to achieve by  inventing reasons why you should do something you know less demanding you know more more uh  Pleasant I would say so procrastinate in other words in a way in a way you know like uh it's well  pressfield has a great uh insight there that procr procrastination is only one of the hundreds of  faces that resistance

can take yeah you know because for some people it's not procrastination  it would be for example a perfectionism so they would work on a thing forever never being perfect  enough and they would work their ass off you know trying to produce the thing while actually being  uh the victim of the resistance which is crazy I mean like I highly recommend not only this book  he read uh he wrote a a whole series of like short books for creators uh I would recommend it  to any artist or Creator just uh y

ou know uh there is this turning pro about professionalism there is  this uh I'll love the title nobody wants to read your beep [ __ ] uh uh uh there is his uh you  know Memoir government ches his personal story how he became uh a writer it took him 30 years  to publish the first bestselling book so he was like well this guy is my hero you know and I'm  so proud that he wrote a blur for my book like uh how did you manage to get to him uh because my  publisher my Czech Publishers um published uh

his book War of art based on my recommendation so they  get got in touch with him and I sort of you know started a conversation with him and he's really  the nicest person you can imagine oh wow like I I I totally adore it's a huge book and these people  are very busy so yeah yeah and look uh the more I know about the guy the more I admire him because  like uh the the story he describes in government Chiefs my story is nothing against that I mean  like he was working as a copywriter when he was

like 20 something like I was perhaps and then he  decided that he will write a big novel novel right and he sort of like went all in he failed his  marriage failed he was so uh you know humbled by the experience that he became a sort of like  homeless person he was sleeping in a van for a decade perhaps working on some you know seasonal  labor stuff he was not writing at all he was going through this dark period of his life where nothing  actually made sense and then he sort of you know decided

step by step to go back to writing because  it was actually the only thing that made him cling back to life you know like it it it was the only  thing that actually made him hold on to his own life and he sort of went to Hollywood he started  writing scripts he was like a junior writer so everybody was sort of mocking a Flor with him at  first you know so he had to learn the trait and had to learn the the principles of a good script  of a good story you know uh then uh he went back to writing no

vels and then uh he was still being  rejected like he sort of like went through this spirit for 30 years like he published the first  bestselling book The Legend of bega WS when he was like 50 plus 54 something so it took him like  30 or more years and it was instant bestseller and Robert Redford bought uh the rights to uh to  to make a movie of it and the second book book after that was Gates of Fire about the uh Battle  of thermopile uh about the Greek U Army history and that book also is like

it's one of the best  novels ever I highly recommend it so yeah he's like he's an incredible guy I love the story well  and going back to my uh to my uh to my own story yeah but this is I I I'll pae here sorry you are  sharing something about someone that inspired you yeah this is the so purpose of my podcast this  is the purpose of people sharing their context how we got to our success and this is what we  suffered through to get there uh because from the per uh from the point of view of a stu

dent  or a high school uh student or a student in University you're thinking that success is a given  or it's like uh something like a talent or success is because someone else gave it to you therefore  back in the days when I started I was like but I know all these great people that I talk to on a  weekly or daily basis that they have these hard story is about uh being broke uh coming back from  uh quitting uh University and then being rejected by your parents for years because they paid  your

education and they were so sad that you quit without like even talking to them uh and etc  etc etc but you like you continue through this and then you form your own version of success so the  Superhuman podcast is about finding your own way towards what you define as Su success for you and  being inspired by others just like Roger Bannister story okay this is possible Robert did it uh  whoever was on the podcast did it so I I've been dreaming uh to about creating spacecrafts there's  a Bulgarian

entrepreneur called raev he created urat urat is a nano satellite company which is  amazing it has more than 100 people working in sopia they sent five Nano satellites uh during  the latest mission of SpaceX on SpaceX Rockets So he his dream was to make such kind of um devices  when he was a kid and then he followed his dream and got rejected hundreds of times for in for  Investments by Ango investors by Venture funds everyone was laughing at him and now everyone  wants to be like him so this w

hy I just want to uh put some emphasis on on on Steven and I I I  like the war of art maybe I will need to go back to it and I'll share a story an idea that I have  in my own head with you in a second but because one of our sponsors is a software company that  uh basically um love reading people there love reading books and they make recommendations for  us uh what what what kind of recommendations for books apart from Steven pressfield's books would  you make uh in terms of uh entrepreneurship

and uh freelancing and business success of course  the freelance way too well uh just a list with three to to five because I know you can share a  lot of books yeah well with freelancing uh it's uh my my uh recommendation would be probably to  read uh about specifics so uh for example it's very important uh to be better to get better  at negotiations I believe that this is really highly under underestimated skill in way uh so  and actually this is probably the only area in of freelancing where I

would not only recommend  to read books but that where I would recommend to Le to read a couple of them because uh you  know like uh learning to negotiate by trial and error is quite costly because every time you you  know make close a bad deal whatever it costs you dearly it may cost you dearly so uh that would be  the first area where I was where I would focus on uh there is this uh classic book called getting to  Yes uh it's it's by Fisher uh it's an old one uh but it's still I believe the b

asis of so-called uh  consultative uh negotiations you know uh because there are different schools of negotiating you  know and some of them in general in my opinion are not really suitable for Freelancers they are more  for Power Players you know yeah like never split the difference yeah like this one it's like it's a  nice it's there are nice stories but you know the guy is was negotiating with the SWAT team by his  around his back you know so this is some something different leverage yeah it'

s a different leverage  as fances we don't have that leverage and we have to use different more soft skills to negotiate so  that that book is actually the essence of how to how to think about negotiating when you don't have  any great leverage uh there is also a great U uh audio program uh you probably know Great Courses  right uh so uh there is this great uh courses uh lecture series called The Art of negotiating  the best deal it's narrated and presented by Seth fredman he's a specialist in i

n negotiations  basically and what I liked about his take is that he has chapters about I don't know negotiating  on salaries negotiating with kids uh you're a new you're a new dad right like so uh you may  find it helpful uh negotiating uh rent and so on so he's really very practical and he's not really  you know like uh overplaying his hand I would say like he's really realistic and I really loved his  approach I highly recommend this this book well um going going on with uh the recommendation

s  uh uh I would definitely recommend reading about well this will sound silly but uh uh I would  definitely recommend reading as much as possible about longevity and about you know supporting  uh wealth uh Health sorry uh because health is wealth of course uh because for us as Freelancers  you know having fragile health is a really highly risky situation you know like that would basically  disable you to do your job and that is also why as I'm having all these interactions with this  community

I see that Freelancers are way way way more likely to be interested about healthy  lifestyle than the general population because they have this uh they have this uh realization  that if they are not healthy and you know if they don't have the energy that the client expects  basically uh it would be very hard to do their job you don't have the colleagues to support you when  you're sick exactly exactly so I would recommend a couple of books uh in terms of uh in terms of  uh diet uh I would recomm

end reading Max Luger's book uh genius Foods M uh because it's about uh  science and about diet that supports uh brain health and since most Freelancers are actually  knowledge workers we work with our Brains Brains uh it's super important in my opinion to know  something about the chemistry uh that supports good brain health uh especially for the long term  because he's presenting in the book not only some dietary recommendations but also the strategies  how to preserve your brain in a top shap

e uh for a for a lifetime basically uh then there are two  very important books you Sur know about them uh uh first this uh uh Health span or life lifespan by  by David Sinclair yeah uh he's a famous longevity scientist and then there is this new book uh  by by Peter AA uh outlift which is I would say like the Practical side of David Sinclair's  work so he's recommending what tests to take uh what prevention measures uh how to take care of  emotional health it's really complex and it's uh strong

ly evidence-based I I love evidence-based  literature um uh well and if you want the third recommendation that would probably  be something in the in the Finance or wealth management style management or sales  what's more important to get more money in or to manage your money better well sales  uh would be fine but uh as Freelancers we sell differently than companies so there are  precious few books that would be applicable to Freelancers you know it's like uh uh I don't  have any you know like

a recommendation on sales for Freelancers unfortunately it's like uh  most books they are really meant for slightly different way of doing business but in terms  of Investments for example I would recommend um uh where if you remember the author I might  help yeah uh John C Bogle is the author he's an inventor of uh of U index funds but I'm trying  to remember the title it's the uh yeah the little book book of Common Sense investing uh and it's  the 10th anniversary edition it's basically his co

ncluding book on the subject uh it was published  when he was like 80 perhaps uh and then the 10th anniversary edition was published you know at  a bit later it also included notes about ETFs about how to sort of you know uh take part of  your uh savings you know why is it why does it make sense to uh to use index funds rather than  do uh stock picking which many people confidently do until until they find that they really don't  have time to study all these companies and to analyze the markets

the way professionals do so  that is a really helpful book in my opinion I'm quite invested in stocks uh but I you know I'm  sort of careful investor and I think this book sort of uh puts all the important arguments in  one place so that that people can make uh more informed and rational uh decision on this yeah  yeah thanks for the great book recommendations I would like to thank our sponsors from storpool  Storage they are Bulgarian made software for uh storage distributed storage of uh uh dat

a in  Cloud environment and their uh co-founder buan was on the podcast in episode 298 but it was  only in Bulgarian unfortunately um from on on the first type of uh re recommendation that you  did about negotiation uh I I told you that having a podcast and making a podcast is more or less  being a freelancer because uh it's a different and unpaved way towards monetization and business  models it needs to fit your way of um the way that you see the world your values and everything so  um the the

one uh like thing that allowed me to create a business model that's sustainable here  in uh probably took me around three years was um the fourth habit of the seven habits of the  Steven kovi which is always think win-win so I created and I always approach negotiation in a  way I don't want to take everything that's on the table I want to take what I believe it's worth and  then I in in therefore invest in having a longer uh longer lifetime customer value so I work with  you not only on one pro

ject but like three four five in a year two or three so it's uh love it's  something that I try to do and I even have a TED talk about can we all win and using this this  concept in our life I have friends of mine that help me for less of their usual payment but I  introduced them to amazing people and clients so they can have more more uh work to be done and  with the proper customers like you I said in the book I I I now remember that you we don't need to  sell to anyone to everyone we need to

sell to the to the proper customers to our customers like my  favorite uh set Goden says if you're selling to everyone you're selling to no one if you're  doing it for everyone you're doing it for no one yeah um exactly as you said uh you know there  is highly contr intuitive idea about negotiations about business negotiations that you can be nice  and kind and looking for win-win yeah you know resolution while also being ambitious yeah and you  know aiming higher each time you do the do a deal

that I believe and also assertive because some  people some people are like uh perceiving this as a sign of uh weakness and they try to uh push  into you which is something that uh I I'm learning as I go through my Brazilian jiu-jitsu practice  just say okay this is the boundary that you're not passing through absolutely uh I think that this  is uh something which we need to learn because this is not common in uh everyday life isn't it  like in everyday life uh The Way We Grow we don't have thi

s you know like double opposing uh ideas  uh at the same time two goals right so we either go the soft way and we are like so-called soft  negotiators S soft negotiators or we go the hard way and we are so-called hard negotiators uh what  I find really great and very inspiring about you know this uh um way of negotiating presented by  by Fisher and Yuri in getting to yes is that you basically take a position that is not completely  natural at first and that you uh you know learn how to get bette

r at being more and more ambitious  in in in sort of upselling your clients or getting to new levels of what you do uh without actually  being a prick yeah and this is this is this is so so so important because uh if people don't know it  they they are way more likely to take the heart of or soft position there is of course uh there is  of course a third bird I would say uh my mother is one for example uh which is a sort of like a I  would call them natural negotiators so these are people who ar

e sort of very talented in a certain  way of uh negotiating um so for example my mother is very talented in oneon-one negotiating so  whenever there was like a you know faulty product in our family she was the one going back to shop  you know making the return because she was like 99% likely to get the refund and uh she learned  the skill uh by her nature she's very extroverted and very communicative uh but also she was running  shops for the company so she was talking to shop owners all the tim

e and she got really great at  you know uh influencing people directly but if I would ask her to lead for example m2n negotiator  uh negotiations where there are like three people on one side two people on the other side or if  I would ask her to do negotiations over email she would be really unsuccessful you know she  that's not her thing you know she only developed the her only way you know and I believe that uh  you know the most advanced negotiators they are really versatile in a way how can

they approach  the the problem they may go email they may take a phone they may go directly they may sit in  person in a negotiating room whatever and they will still be very likely to uh to go through  with their goals I would say so it's uh it's um it's a really long journey to learn and I'm still  learning along the way I would say you know uh for me the most uh interesting way is definitely  the upsale I would say like how to take present client relationships to a new level to to a new  amb

ition to uh to to get a larger cut from the um from from from what we create to together uh  while still being reasonable and appropriate in proportion to the value that has been created  this is something that I find really incredibly challenging and very interesting because this  is where I you know sort of like go up with my revenues as a freelancer you know it's very easy  for Freelancers to Plateau at a certain level I I see it all the time you know people sort of like  find their optimal r

evenue and then they Plateau on it for years they don't they sort of give up  on mbition to say hey I can do something more but they don't do it because it would involve you  know uh sort of risking or disrupting the current client relationships you know they sort of think  that clients there are their friends and that they shouldn't you know sort of like disturb do  any waves but this is really I find this really uh unhelpful you know because look first of all  uh any client relationship will e

nd one day and it's better if it ends uh when you are trying to  upsell you know try when you are trying to be a bit more ambitious to to push it somewhere else  where you can both you know create more Revenue then uh if it's sort of like dissolutes on like a  long-term you know dissolving relationship that's the first thing and the second thing you know  client is not your friend in in general it's uh it's you may have really friendly relationship  with a client but look uh you don't go I I I a

s a professional I I would never go to my client's  place and complain about how how hard my life is you know I would never complain about problems I  have in my personal life I'm there for a client he pays me or she pays me so I listen to their  problems you know and it may be completely amicable and friendly relationship but it's not  the same thing as if you sit with your friends and they support you emotionally and whatever so  you know it's value based relationship it's like you create valu

e for your customer and he pays  you for it for the value you create for him it's like it is friendly is like a manner of leading  a conversation I love my my my my partners uh and I have uh something just to share about upselling  to to my partners but I I try to work with people that I find the work easier than compared to most  of the people so I I pick up partners that I have easy communication I don't need to say something  and then write it down and then uh say it for the third time it's j

ust simp simple simple easy  um straight to the point direct communication and what I realized it was probably last year  I realized that the best way to to sell so not negotiate but to sell is to sell to the people  that already have trust in you and they're happy what you have been providing them with because  they're like okay if if Gori can do this he's upselling with something so he can give us even  more value it will be easier to do this than to look for new and new customers so be brave

talk  to the people that you're currently working with ask them what you can do more for them and then  they might upsell themselves they're like you know you're very good in this we thing about this  new particular project that's a very important observation and I I'm uh constantly aware that uh  well a great number of Freelancers even Advanced one uh find this hard to find is hard to realize  and to explore this Avenue you know it's an issue with pricing as well because uh Freelancers they  ar

e highly pro client oriented so as you said like we provide this also the emotional support like  we really love our clients I think we all have it Commons uh all have it Comon and that in turn you  know leads us to a certain you know hesitancy uh in uh pricing wise so there is one thing that is  really helpful not only having this conversation I always find this conversation about pricing about  upselling very useful because people otherwise may not realize that it's it's a good Avenue to  to w

ork on but you know um uh I think there is a useful exercise for any freelancer you know uh  if you are working in an industry and Freelancers work in hundreds of Industries thousands of  professions it's really diverse Universe um uh there is really great to know how big is the price  scale in your profession because it would probably begin with something like $10 per hour but there  are probably it's highly likely people in your industry that char Char couple of thousands or  couple of or even

more couple of thousands Euros or dollars per hour it's not really that uncommon  you know in most uh Advanced knowledge work that you have some Elite uh professionals that are  recognized internationally and they charge this much you know and once you realize that there  is this scale and that it's not a binary option that you either belong to a poor group you know  charging 10 20 $30 per hour or you know like to the elite group that charges you know like two  or three thousand Euros or dollar

s per hour of expert work that there is this like con uh gradual  scale then you realize that you may do something to move along this scale you know this is very  important you know people often find ways and reasons why they could not go along scale but  this is an illusion you know you may be based in almost any Western Country and still climb up you  know by going International by you know inventing something really new in your profession by uh  actually inventing ways how we can you know cre

ate more value for the clients and then move along  you know to to a higher grade you know it's not the ultimate goal of course but I would still find  it quite disappointing how many free Freelancers sort of plateau on a certain quite low price level  for years without actually doing anything about it and it's actually one of the I would say like most  important things in my book that Freelancers you know shouldn't be too hesitant on their pricing  you know we sort of tend we have this tendency

to to fix U prise for years you know and be sort of  you know afraid to confront our clients with the possible price hike whatever we invent other ways  how to how to avoid it so we overwork ourselves you know and and it has this all these chronic uh  results then so pricing is this conversation is is very important I believe when when talking about  pricing is it a psychological issue or is like um because it in my personal experience there are  two things that prevented me from I need to shar

e a story uh probably three years ago 3 years ago  two and a half years ago at least I had a call from a very large Bulgarian Bank about making  an online um online podcast for them just for the people it was on longevity by the way it was  like being healthy and I invited a person that's been on my podcast and expert and um I was I was  thinking how much should I charge them with it was they they wanted something like an hour and a half  and I was thinking about I don't know 250 300 Euro and I

called a friend of mine that usually does  identical trainings like events with such Clans and he said why that's just not enough it's you  deserve more and I'm like yeah but he was like yeah charge them €1,000 and I'm thinking no no no  I won't charge them €1,000 then I go to my fiance and I and I tell her and he's selling basically  four times more and I go to my fiance I say listen I was thinking about this but I don't think I  can ask them for1 1,000 for for the event and she's like why but

if you don't ask them you you  always stuck your Plateau on this price and you always say this price you won't learn anything new  if you're not if you don't try something new like yeah and then I talk to my uh psychotherapist I  do this for I've been visiting him for probably around three and three years or four and he's  asking me okay what do you imagine it to happen if you say €1,000 to the person that's expecting  your offer like send them an email and and then I was like yeah they will pro

bably think that I'm  uh uh greedy and he's asking me this question but how can someone put you like a moral label like  how can you put on yourself a moral label from someone that you don't know like can you imagine  what you happen try to put yourself in his shoes or her shoes and read the email and what would you  do and I imagine being this lady in an office in a like in a bank uh receiving an email about like  me saying hey I would love to do this event I'll invite this guest and it will be

like1 1,000 Euro  and she's like ah this is just a bit above our budget and I'm like oh my God it's that simple I  mean if they say it's too much they would just say it's above our budget can we do something one year  later I have a invitation from the same customer to uh do a in-person events and I'm thinking  okay how much should I say I'll say uh it it was probably an hour hour and a half but in person  it's not that much of my thing I was like okay I'm going to offer them uh750 for one even

t for like  two hours just to be there and to share a story inspiring it was like short keynote and I I send  the email and they and then I Reed an email back yeah this is a bit above our budget I'm like  okay I make like 25% discount something like this 30% discount I do like 600 Eur instead of 750  and she's like yeah that's perfect perfect let's do it and one week before the event she calls and  say listen we need to do a second event I'm like yeah no worries at same price she was like yeah s

o  instead of getting 750 I got uh uh 1,200 because I basically was able to step down to match something  that they wanted me to not to match my internal uh like belief limiting belief yeah so we are that's  why I'm asking we are way too much in our into our own hand heads mhm and external Viewpoint  like therapists helps a lot uh that's a great story because it's so practical it's uh it show it  shows exactly how it is in life uh I have a couple of notes to that uh first of all of course that 

pricing is heavily based in our psychology and I would say if you are if you are about to get uh I  don't mean you but in general if you are about to get uh better in pricing you know the single most  important rule is to do the pricing I mean like play with the price so that you know exactly what  your price elasticity and even more importantly what your pricing power is you know there's this  concept uh popularized by by Warren Buffett uh called pricing power mhm uh which means in essence  wha

t is your capacity to raise price without uh losing your clients for for the competition you  know so if you have a great pricing power it means that you may rise raise I don't know like 100%  for example without actually losing any clients if you have a low pricing power means that uh  as Warren Buffett says you you need to have a prayer session every time you raise your price by  10% or something like that you know and he's also famous for for saying that apple is a fantastic  company because

they may raise the price anyway they like and people still buy their products  by the way it's I I love that quote because uh it's it's it's true and uh so we also have this  pricing power as Freelancers the problem is that if people have a fixed price for ages they don't  they don't have a clue what their real pricing power is you only find out like what's your  what's the like a top price you may be asking by actually alternating playing the price and  seeing how people react uh to your you kn

ow raising demands basically and there is another  very important Concept in in freelance pricing which I would say is uh uh I would call it  uh validating a price you know for example with this case you know you only got the first  negotiation for ,000 then for 700 these are only these are only two dat dat points yeah so this is  like highly unreliable it's only one client so it doesn't actually tell you what your real pricing  power is because this client may be uh really low on budget or real

ly conservative in willing to  they may they may have a department you know that tells them like how many can they pay so your  goal in general is to get as much of these data points you know as possible and then you see very  important thing that if you are for example people constantly asking you know uh I don't know €1,500  for a talk and you are con constantly getting accepted then you know this is validated level of  my pricing and I'm completely confident without actually feeling greedines

s as or whatever because  this is you know where this comes from like they will think I'm a greedy I mean this comes from  uncertainty because if you would be selling at this price normally and you would have validated  that price you would know that it's not a greedy price that it's a price that customers are willing  to pay specifically for you and your service so my general you know observation here would be that  Freelancers if they don't play with the price if they don't touch their price o

ffer often they may  be actually leaving uh money lying on the street without realizing that their pricing power would  allow them to double or triple their rate with with some effort of course because you need to  sort of you know like um sort of exchange some clients for new ones possibly you know like if you  are Ching more you sort of attract people who seek from seek a high quality in service whatever but  uh you know this is very important uh actually if you don't touch your price often yo

u live in an  uncert pricing uh superposition you don't know what the what the real possibility is know uh  I'm currently charging uh for like one hour of work something like ,200 yeah for consultancy  yeah for consultancy and one of the important moments for me to to go on this price I I I uh  I changed it after my book went out and I got really a lot of inquiries was that I uh find out  found it out by talking to Industry colleagues who are more senior than I am that there are people  in our i

ndustry who charge 5,000 per hour 3,000 per hour they work in London whatever and it's  common like if you find clients for this price you know and you sell your time at this level  who can tell that you are greedy or whatever I mean like the client wants you he's willing to  pay pay or she's willing to pay and that's about it I mean like uh it's a free market yeah it's  a free market you position yourself like where you want to be but you also need to uh keep your  ego in check because this is

another end of the spectrum because spectrum is the the the the whole  concept of uh looking at things uh like a spectrum helped me so much to make better decisions I can  lower my price for some organizations uh and I can have higher price for others for example  people are calling me from high school or from some University and they're asking me how much do  you want for a lecture here I was like I do it for free yeah why would you do it for free because  I do it free for educational purposes

and then a company approached me and say hey we would like  you to make a motivational speech about your the podcast everything that you've done and I'm like  okay and this my price but you are doing it for free I'm doing it for free for students and high  school students so uh companies like yours you have the budget and I invest this budget to create  this studio and make the team work and spend some time here to have better quality etc etc etc so  uh and I spend your money to get to the schoo

ls that I need to talk for free uh and this is my  my willingness to give something free but get something back from the economy uh and uh yeah  this it helps me to to to be um to be flexible and I am I I perceive my myself as a freelancer  yeah I don't perceive my organization as a company it is more or less it is a company but I I like  it I like this um uh this freedom I love freedom my my main value is freedom and I love that youve  mentioning it here so for the freelancer to to to freelance

around to do whatever wherever he want  to so I'm um it our conversation just grows deeper and deeper and I I need to go through something  with you because you um uh you mentioned that um the pricing power is something important yeah Bor  Buffett is a great Tool uh to get some information about I'm my pricing the book that I would like to  refer to is called monetizing Innovation which is a great book that uh focuses on uh on features  and to build products around the features not pricing arou

nd the product uh it's is something uh  that inspired me a lot uh and then I have another question from another partner about the podcast  that you listen to can you recommend something uh yeah of course uh I'm a big fan of podcasting uh  but I still dedicate only like a small fraction of my listening time to it uh I'm a big fan  of audible so I listen to English audiobooks uh yeah me too uh so this this has a priority  in a in a way uh I just finished uh listening to Walter Isaacson Elon Musk b

ook I was well I  was stunned okay uh that was something because I never I was never interested in El musk uh  too much he's controversial uh no I I don't consider him controversial it's just uh I'm not  too much in cars or roets so it was sort of like flying under my radar course but you too much  into PayPal because Freelancers are like this whole pay payment system was supported so much  by PayPal and he's PayPal Mafia yeah yeah he is uh but uh the the way isacson wrote the book it  actually

flawed me I mean he's really great writer it was the first book I I read from him that was  something he's the best biograph in in the states I believe yeah um since I was so disappointed with  the latest Michael Lewis book about s b freed and FTX downfall uh I believe so because uh forly  I would say that Michael Lewis is the best okay he's like uh he was my really like top uh favorite  uh if you read Flash Boys or something like that or Boomerang like he's a really I I believe he's  really lik

e a top fiction writer out there in in States currently but uh the bankman fre book was  really like he was sort of apologetic about the guy and I and I really hated it because I think  he's a fraud but uh I I recommend Mark Manson because I believe he is the best non-fiction  writer currently in the states all right thank you have you read the Will's biography Will Smith  no no no go ahead and then you can go through the sub art of not giving a [ __ ] but I'm grateful  for a recommendation beca

use it's so hard to to find new Authors once I know that the author is  good of course that's a different I believe that he's amazing but this is my personal of view uh  but I also read uh fiction of course uh a lot but going back to your podcast uh I think I won't  surprise you uh with with my with my tips uh uh my first uh and highest recommendation would  probably go to huberman lab and H man yeah he's basically uh doing like evidencebased popular  science podcast about health so he's really

my favorite podcaster uh at the time then I listened  to uh I I was listening to Eric Weinstein's the portal when he was doing it he stopped so like  he's crazy he's crazy but uh I like his crazy craziness uh I also listen to Breaking News you  know what it is no uh it's the biggest uh News podcast in the states currently so there are two  guys who sort of you know started to do news MH and uh I think there are a huge thing there there  are definitely something to something word file to listen t

o uh they position themselves as being  nonpartisan so they are not left leaning nor right leaning uh they are sort of uh somewhere in the  middle uh they try to cover everything that is going on in the world and what I like about the  podcast is that it presents purely and only the American perspective you know like uh I read  enough European media U I like I don't know I I'm I really love the economist uh Financial Times  whatever whatever political but uh you know this is all like the uh espe

cially the economist is  like really European view in my opinion uh uh the of course cck media of course but these are  unknown outside of the country but uh the breaking news is like you know enable me enable enabling me  uh to see the American perspec Ive which sometimes makes me angry uh because you know we are so used  to our you know position on the war in Ukraine that we 100% support you know the struggle and  then you sort of listen to Americans they are sort of you know worry about you k

now things  and uh they try to dispute you know things so uh I find it I find it helpful to to be confronted  with intelligent people who have different ideas and who are not any extremist you know they they  are just having intellig intelligent discussions because it presents it sort of widens uh my  understanding that people in the states may have completely different you know points of view  and and this is helpful and um sometimes I listen to Joe Rogan um especially when he has a probably  o

nly when he has a guest that I'm interested in uh uh we have podcasts as well and he I find  him I find him uh also crazy like he's really like uh for conspirations and so on but uh he  trusts he believes in UFOs and stuff I would never uh consider this to be really realistic but  I find him interesting in the way he conducts his podcast you know like uh because we also have one  and I and I believe that uh he made made me way less formal uh because you know there are these  scenes for example t

hat he's interviewing someone and then there is someone banging loud something  back in the studio right and he said hey come on guys we are recording her interview for 10 million  people can you stop doing that and and he leaves that in the show and then then I realized like  come on like he he could have cut it out and he leaves it there because it's authentic uh it's  something that I also like that he doesn't do any introductions I I we haven't reached that point  yet you know like uh I don'

t feel comfortable you know just sit sit in the studio and start you  know talking about whatever comes your way but in a way uh the way he does it uh is inspirational  in us being less formal when we do our podcast so I I I find it find it uh interesting I love  the Viewpoint here because you're like pointing towards the differences between between different  people and this is like the ultimative uh way of looking at the world because um we are all  different we do things differently we can su

cceed differently uh we have different uh uh  viewpoints Etc but um uh there are things that need to unite us like science for example yeah and  like I'm a big fan of science being good people since I was kid yeah yeah I know my father is a a  professor and engineer so I don't know um thanks to thanks for the great recommendations um and  thanks for the audible also uh heads up because I'm currently uh listening to Arnold's new newest  book um is it any good um I think Total Recall is better yea

h but it's called be useful yeah I  know I know which is basically I don't know it sounds like I cannot put a a label on it yet it's  like sharing his knowledge about how to um how to create win-win in in his own in his own way but  um yeah I've also downloaded Yesterday by back your time by by Dan Martell a recommendation by a  friend of mine who've been on the podcast too but I want to thank hacks soft for supporting this U  particular part of the podcast they are Bulgarian software company th

at have the their own podcast  where they share what they have learned what their experiences were uh Through The Years creating a  software company in English which might be useful for you guys uh their YouTube channel is called  hack cast hack soft and their podcast called hack cast so uh get uh get online and listen to their  content I'm also interviewed in the season 4 we were talking about um why is it important for it  professionals to be healthy and it's not only for Freelancers but also

for everyone to take care of  their health and because entering the studio we're like is this ATL FR this was inspired by at Shug  yes and I wanted the atlas to be strong to have this Aura being strong not being like cifas like  being uh the Rogue being so heavy that he cannot like push it yeah and because I believe that  we carry uh we we carry the friend we car carry the uh internal ability to make uh the change to  handle challenges and to um have all the Solutions in our own hands so that's

why I wanted a very  strong uh Atlas here there's a you know there's a second book by an Rand about the architect the  f I found it relevant to Freelancers in a way but by the way I was thinking about uh at Just sh  recently when I was reading that Walter isacson book about Elon because that guy seems to be the  archetype of the people and Rand was writing about in Atlas sh basically you know the guys in the  sphere or the other guys no I mean like uh heurs yeah I think like her idea right is th

at uh human  progress is uh made by exceptional individuals uh who are crazy enough you know and bold enough  yeah but they're not exceptional they're just I mean exceptional the the perception of others are  they exceptional they're just bold and brave and they have their Vision what they want to do and  they don't give up and they don't give up towards political pressure yeah sure sure this is just  me sure so so it made me think about about it of course I think I differ from you a little bit

uh  by basically I don't adhere to anr's uh worldview I I have to say but libertarian the libertarian  way uh yeah I don't I don't uh but I like the novel uh and I like and I like how bold she was  you know for the time um uh and of course uh when you when you read about people who went on their  own broke completely new ground while being hated and talked down by anybody else that is something  that will make you cry I mean like this is there is something I think deeply a archetypal about it  s

he wrote about the archetype um Steven pressfield wrote a couple of books about this hero archetype  you know it's some it's a well it's like a sort of like a narrative structure that is present in  so many Works about somebody who with a thousand faces yeah yeah exactly like the Campbell style  like somebody who you know taken out of the ordinary conditions then goes through the ordeal  and then comes back to people with the gift right some come someone comes to them to inspire them  to get thr

ough this ordeal and then he comes back and he's the hero so of course I love this kind of  story it makes me cry when I when I realize that uh there is somebody living out there who is sort  of that thing you know but of course I know or I believe that uh this worldview is very limited  it's uh because it's one-sided in in a way you know I also believe that uh uh collaboration and  uh you know sort of limiting you know individuals abilities to do whatever they want is important  as well so you

know I'm somewhere like politically somewhere in the middle you know but I still  love the Hero Stories uh about existing people you know for me inspiring also the fiction books  are um sharing stories that may be adapted to your worldview like dun is a great example uh also  Atlas what is a dune Dune yeah of course June because you like you're reading Frank Herbert and  you're like but this is some kind of a fantasy it it try to recognize yourself somewhere there  the situations that you face u

h like the the the hardships anything and you might be like this  is a very interesting like point of view towards this particular question I started talking about  Atlas because when I started the podcast my first guest was my My Health Mentor uh Lazer who helped  me get get in a good shape when I was 278 nine and then I from there on it I was Unstoppable  I just changed my environment change everything that I did and it it came into the podcast and  in the beginning you said something like you

need to start uh in order to get better not to  procrastinate not not to get into perfectionism I started my podcast with an iPad and I did 200  episodes with an iPad and everyone else was like this is impossible no no one is going to listen  to it no one is going to um uh hear 45 1 hour discussions 45 minutes 1 hour discussions and now  the podcasts are usually around 3 hours and it's like the one of the most best I love your story  yeah incred there's there there's a lot to be to be shared ho

pefully next time you're in Sophia  we have more time over a lunch or uh something so I can share because there's so much more about  it like the lessons that I've learned I have so many people supporting me I have patreons I have  companies that support me I have people that are in my team I'm building an organization that's  like a small media that creates all this and I'm learning as I go I'm learning as a go and everyone  was like when are you going to do the tools tools for Titans uh versio

n of the super human podcast  I'm like wait a minute I'm not ready to write books I'm not I'm not team fer material yet uh  so next question would be for the importance of a website for a freelancer because uh one of the  best coting companies in Bulgaria on the bulans is supporting the podcast and they would like to  help uh not only Freelancers generally people that want to have their own entrepreneurial Journey or  a course or anything to have their own website so what's the importance of hav

ing a website nowadays  yeah Robert um I would start addressing this from a slightly different perspective uh if you are  a freelancer and you have never thought of you know this area try to find out what your digital  footprint is I mean like try to Google yourself up like put your name in Google and see what are the  top 10 results uh that present you and your work because website is only one link there right but  there are nine other results so with Freelancers it's more about being findable

and being being  trustworthy when people scan your digital footprint somehow so it's not only about a website  it's about your social profiles it's about your YouTube channel it's about your I don't know like  uh your listings on several freelance platforms for example um each of these should somehow you  know tell the story who you are in a consistent and trans trustworthy way so at the first glance  plans I would sort of you know think about it in a more broad sense uh website I believe is ver

y  useful uh especially if you have a domain uh that is that you can put anywhere um in um in the  footer of your email on your business card if you have any I don't have one uh or me neither yeah  of course it's like this is this is uh something to ly uh optional for a freelancer right but only  in Europe I was told that uh for Freelancers in Asia or southeast Asia it's quite mandatory so  that differences but this is almost a joke but uh yeah I was told about by a friend who is doing  uh busin

ess in China and Southeast Asia that if he goes to a business meeting somewhere there  that not only he's expected to have a business card but when he's given a business card from a  senior he's supposed to read it you know comment on the paper whatever it's just part of the small  talk so he was a little bit funny about it but uh yeah cultural differences yeah there culture  differences but anyway uh um I'm running uh two freelance platforms where people can have uh open  profile so it means th

at uh uh all the contact details are published there so uh anyone can  contact these Freelancers directly and uh quite a big number of our members doesn't have a personal  website they only use the profile and they have a domain alas uh redirected to it and it's enough  for them because it's well findable it makes sense so my general recommendation would be that  uh they are basically uh three good uh ways how to approach your having a website first of first  level would be a single page present

ation it may be on your own domain you know is like a single  website single page website or it may be in some you know quality uh freelance platform and then  you would like put everything by yourself perhaps a price list or a current price uh your bio your  your professional highlights uh offering of your services whatever you think is important to have  there uh because each of us has different needs uh for presenting ourselves and not everybody  wants to have a public price list for example

I use it as a sort of filter it filters out uh the  inquiries that would be irrelevant due to price expectations difference so there are different  ways how to put the one single page together uh that would be one great way so having like a  single page with up toate information with your picture as a freelancer picture is way more  important than a logo because clients relate to us as individuals fa names and there is this  great quote by graphic designer Yan tippman who works in prag uh I love

this quote because it's  also sort of counterintuitive he said uh if I put my picture on a website people who approach me  are sympathetic to me so I instantly like them and it's you know it's a two-way street you know  there is something in the face and in the way we uh look that attracts people who are sort of on a  similar wavelength perhaps uh it also um relates to the clothes we are wearing you know like if  I would go a full jacket you know and a tie and whatever I would be somebody else

then probably  I am because I'm quite informal um uh so all of these elements like make sense a great copy  of as well of course if you're not copywriter hire one uh then the second level which is quite  interesting is about content so having a Content website I mean a blog or like a podcast something  like where you publish something valuable then there is like a a sort of paradox you know like  uh friends of mine who are highly professional in creating websites and who some of them are even  i

nvolved in running search engines they have this also contributive Insight that uh regular users  they don't care that much about how websites look if they contain highly valuable content so same  for podcasts yeah so so so the the recommendation there would be if you have something important  to share and you are willing to master the form because each form has a different needs from the  Creator uh you may start with a WordPress website whatever on your own domain just put the content  out the

re you know like work uh on it and it will compensate for you know not looking too great but  because people people will like it and people will find it because of its value you know so make it  readable make it usable but don't be concerned that much about you know uh not spending uh dozens  of thousands of Euros for creating the website and then there is the third level which I would  call like a fully professional website created by professionals this is usually useful for people  who are way

more ahead on their professional and freelance Journey these are people who are I  would say like top earners who may spent I I don't know like thousands thousands of Euros or 10,000  Euros for a website and then these websites tend to be more complex they they may contain I don't  know like a a glossery of terms they may contain various sections you know they often involve some  um um uh data architecture how to pull all these sections together and they usually require  professional support be

cause people usually who are not web designers wouldn't be able to put  it all together neatly so this would be the third level so this would be my third recommendation but  of course social media are very important for most Freelancers I wouldn't overdo it with it you know  like uh they also have downsides I wouldn't go fully call Newport here like he's really he's way  too much for me lately like digital minimalism I believe is like he went overboard somehow there  but uh in general I like dee

p work I like uh uh U uh so good they can ignore you these two books  are really excellent but with digital minimalism I sort of uh perceived that he went alarmist he  went sort of you know like uh uh I've I've been involved with several researchers who were who are  involved in uh in internet addiction and online addiction and from from what I've learned from  them and the research they send me the situation is not that grave as he presents it so so I  wouldn't recommend people you know just go

ing off the especially Freelancers going like leaving  social media and and and uh staying somewhere in a hut you know yeah what what I would like to say  here is um people often ask me how do you create a business model how do you monetize podcast and  you don't monetize the podcast you you monetize your audience so the the more people listen to  you the the right when the right people listen to you the engaged ones when you know who you're  talking to uh you have a monetization opportunity and

the same thing for Freelancers uh social  media is a place where you have it's like a market like everyone goes through there and you  position there and you grow an audience there you need to be in front of people to people to  get to know you that you exist exist so uh why is easy to send to sell books on Amazon when when  you put your book there there are people looking for books on Amazon so uh identical example you  put yourself on LinkedIn you uh expect people to see what you do but uh go

ing off means it's  Market funnel get through like check what Market funnel is marketing funnel is basically there's  a number of people that you approach and there's a percentage of the people you approach that are  going to become your customers the more people you approach and know about you the more customers  you have simple as that yeah but anyway I like Co Newport I see some great work I think only I  have a different opinion on social media you know uh so digital minimalism was way too m

uch for me  but I still recommend his former two books and uh well uh I like a quote by two friends of mine who  wrote A bestselling book about social media it was published in Czech only unfortunately but uh you  know uh they are both highly accomplished social media managers and I like their saying that uh  basically social media is the democratization of the media lscape you know you have less people who  were formally privileged to talk to other people through traditional media here you can

have you  can be nobody but you may have something special to present and you may have a million following  that's great about the thing that it enables people who are not privileged in any way to have  an audience you know and to present their you know uh their value to the public and that's in essence  I know that social media have issues that they uh you know support anxiety in young people you know  I wouldn't you know tralize this you know but in general I believe that they are Force for th

e good  yeah uh yeah um but the problem is that the forces for the bad are using the social media without  the the moral sentiments that we have yeah and this is a a story that we are seeing in Twitter  we we seeing it in Facebook you mentioned the war it's also uh a lot of propaganda going there and  it's uh it's easier to say like yeah the good guys are following the rules but the bad guys don't  follow rules which is making the the battle a bit more uneven and uh with the purpose of getting 

more and more people on the social media platform just to raise the capital and the value of the  company it's uh something some sometimes the profit is before the people yeah and uh but it is  for everyone to to have their own opinion on this I would like to thank super hosting BG for helping  me for all these years and hosting my own website so if you're looking for a hosting year based in  Bulgaria Serbia or one of the countries that they provide domain and hosting Services check them  out um

Lastly lastly my main um my main partners for two and a half years are e-commerce company  and some Freelancers are working for e-commerce businesses or even have their own e-commerce  businesses uh would you have um some kind of a idea quote suggestion or um advice towards  e-commerce based Freelancers um like things to look into or like something to uh someone to  follow or anything that would be helpful for for these people um well first of all like lots  of my freelance friends are actually

involved in Ecommerce industry this is actually this  has been uh for a couple of years especially since Co where where many formerly offline only  companies were basically forced to go online with their goods uh so it created a lot of [Music]  Boom uh so this is quite common uh professional uh professional expertise among Freelancers I  work with um as for the As for resources well uh I have a friend who who is organizing the  probably the best uh European conference on Europe on U digital mar

keting and he has a lot of  uh a lot of uh good content there so uh check out marketing Festival it's like they all they also  have uh online content but he's really great at getting uh worldclass speakers to and Brun it's an  International Conference so that would be probably a shout out to Indra Fai who is the person  behind it uh he's been doing it for 10 years by now wow and uh I think he put something really  incredible uh there uh because he has this notion that quality trumps absolutely e

verything you know  he told me couple of times how the industry Works Industry of conferences you know how many talks  for example on major conferences are sold yeah so you are basically paying your money to get  a ticket to listen to people that's paid to be there that's paid to be there as speakers and  who provide very little value to you actually they are there to sell you something yeah so I ad  to sell you something because they invested this money to get them back yeah so so uh I'm quite 

aware uh that you know having a conference that has this you know like the only quality first you  know get the best speakers together and you know like ignore the fluff you know how important  that is you know so marketing Festival would be a great resource I would also recommend uh  to follow Indra on social media because he's an interesting guy he's also a freelance answer by  the way as a site project he created one of the most uh you know uh visible channels on YouTube  uh uh uh with the r

eviews of motorbikes okay so he traveling all around the world you know like  uh doing reviews of motorbikes and it's his hobby but since he's such a passionate guy he sort  of like you know created quite a big uh you know Buzz around this uh around this channel  as well so yeah yeah that would be that would be perhaps my my 10cent uh on this on this Arena  uh you know like Czech Republic is pretty close you know you may fly into Prague you may have  amazing experience there not only going to th

e main conference but they have also workshops and  and so on I've been uh there a couple of times uh it's a great event actually there is also um  another one uh web Expo also in prag uh it this is more about uh web Technologies you know it's  like uh so if I can recommend something uh from my home country probably and well uh perhaps  the third thing that's a fringe one but uh I don't know if you know it about me but uh we have  a second home we live in Spain as well okay and uh we spent every

winter in Las Palmas the grand  Canaria which is like uh winter getaway we we spend there like from 3 to five months every year  and that city is incredible hotspot for people who work in the online industry so for me it has  become um a place where I meet most people from the e-commerce on online industry every year  because they spend the winter there as remote workers we have some informal you know cafes like  uh sit out CRS on the beach you know with kids and so on I highly recommend Las Pa

lmas it's an  awesome place it has a according to several resources uh it has the most stable weather uh  in the world because basically the whole year is a spring weather it's like from 22 to 32° with  the extremes going down to 15 or up to 35 you know but regularly is like B between 20 and 30 so it's  not too hot and um it's uh accessible uh through uh direct flights from most European capitals and  uh we absolutely love the city because the Beach strip there is fantastic and uh additionally i

f  you can meet so many interesting people there it it it has this added value of uh very pleasant  networking with people who are from the same industry as I am I'm also an online guy um most  of what I do is related to some you know digital and Web projects I also of clients who work in  this so that would be my third recommendation like uh traveling to meet people there that's  great uh thank you very much uh YPO and their R&D office in Sofia are developing this software  as a service tool ca

lled uh SMS bump used to be called SMS bump is a SMS marketing tool that  is helping one of the biggest Shopify and uh e-commerce shops worldwide like GoPro Patagonia  Ikea so uh if you are interested in joining such company uh check out their careers page uh and  I have some of the guys that are leading the R&D Center in Sofia being on the podcast and being  part of the community of patreons that I have so I'm very thankful for ypos support throughout  these years and uh in 2024 we're going to

have um more and more of this collaboration which I'm very  thankful for so um getting to the book because we have a couple of minutes just to to get through it  uh we we mentioned it in a bit uh you can you grab the English version of it you have the English  version of it we have it here in Locus Locust also have a discount for uh the listeners of  the Superhuman podcast awesome it's 20% so guys you can get it uh with a with a discount of  course with the promo code they also have the new Pete

r at book okay like outlift it has just been  published I've been uh to a book fair uh here yeah and uh it it has just been out this is great and  uh can you describe what um what people can find in the book uh that's um useful uh that's useful  in a way that because I I was um getting through it I was wondering what's inside the way of the  freelancer like uh or the freelance way it's I literally translate I I'm literally translating it  uh and I I I I hear and read through a lot of like tools

a lot of like uh viewpoints and approaches  like make sure you have a good accounting or at least someone to consult with so you don't end up  in a country where you need to be registered as a freelancer for the first purchase that you do uh  some of the European countries I've tried to do like Drop Shipping in UK and Germany for the first  couple of purchases it's not a problem but you need to get settled in to uh to make it uh to make  it work like you said in Spain back in the days so uh how

would you describe your own book uh well  um as you said uh originally it's uh it's pretty thick uh you know there's not much fluff in there  uh it's not a book based on a single idea so it's basically divided in three uh Parts the first part  is about freelancing in general about uh I would say like the overall strategy um part of it is uh  how important a good name is for a professional uh it's actually quite essential to long-term success  uh with Freelancers so I wanted to make sure at the b

eginning of the book not only to introduce  freelancing as a subject but also to introduce How Deeply we are dependent on our reputation you  know it's it's a very essential concept and then the second part relates more to the individual  so more about the characteristics that make uh outstanding Freelancers so it's more about the  psychological side about you know uh uh carrier strategies U I also recommend the Co Newport book  there uh so good they can't ignore you for example uh and then ther

e is this uh largest uh part uh  third one uh that includes uh you know the core of the knowhow of being a freelancer as a business  person so there is a chapter on time management on uh team collaboration on pricing on business  negotiations on personal marketing on getting paid uh on uh using online uh tools and websites  to promote and present yourself uh about financial selfman mement which will probably be a topic of  my next book and there is also a closing chapter that I don't want to spo

il to readers but that's  a chapter that puts it all in a like a sort of new light or New Perspective uh it's it's it's a sort  of like narrative Arc that goes through the whole book and that puts you in like a position where  you can digest everything that has been said but also relate it somehow to your personal story uh  uh just a glimpse of it uh I would say that the motivation of a beginning freelancer to become  professional to have the stability is different from the Ambitions of advanced

Freelancers you  know they sort of they have like a because they already have this they have the stability  they have the income whatever and I sort of try to put the whole thing in a completely  new perspective in the last chapter that it's not a the freelancing the freelance way is not a  linear way from being a beginner to being somebody who is 100% professional uh that it's something  like U you know like ongoing story and when you reach the professional stage the most interesting  part beg

ins actually so uh this book is not only inspired by uh outstanding professionals I've been  in touch over the years hundreds of them but it's also strongly evidence-based I like evidence-based  books I like science so it's based on data on service that we have about the freelance industry  that is I believe uh what sets the book apart from the most of the titles written for Freelancers  which are often very useful but all also very often based on the experience of a single  individual and their

peers in a single profession they're sharing a story yeah from story I wanted  to write something way more ambitious to to write about the whole industry much it's like a notebook  it's like it's like something that the students book you read it you're like okay like separated  by it it's like um straight to the point data data like tools instruments uh viewpoints it's  not like apart from your personal story getting into it uh I have I have not read like anything  that's not uh straight to the

point and nowadays most books are full with stories which is not bad  because in some of the stories I make I take some uh interesting things for myself but uh it's not a  it's not a like a non-fiction book field like with uh with just stories thank you it means a lot uh  that you say it and then you perceive it this way because it was exactly my intention yeah it's my  this is my perception for this moment as soon as I finish the book I'm going to um make a short  good reads review on it becau

se I know it helps uh you're you're telling me that you are looking  forward to your you you can leave it here if you want uh to your next book yeah yeah are have you  started writing it yet yeah I uh I I uh uh I'm I'm in a process of uh moving couple of thousands  notes I made for myself into a settle Casten do you know about it no uh there is a fantastic book  that will be published by Locus also okay uh it's written by a great guy and uh friend of mine met  uh fellow author his name is sonka

arens uh he's a professor at the German University and he wrote  a book that is titled how to take smart notes and it's about the method uh of so-called personal  Knowledge Management uh uh developed by uh German social social sociologist uh uh Nicholas Lumen I  I I hope I didn't mispronounce his name uh we he sort of like uh developed a method to organize  notes uh about complex topics and I decided that uh for writing my next book I sort of like add  the new uh mental tool to my skill set that

I will create a setle class for the book uh because  I have so many notes that uh uh I need to sort of like connect them together into a more coherent  uh way uh with this book with the freelance way I didn't have to do that because I was training  uh Freelancers uh and I had a training that I was developing for uh 10 years and the outline  was pretty clear from the beginning yeah you had the structure now uh with this new book that  should be for general public about uh Financial self-manageme

nt inspired by entrepreneurs and uh  uh Freelancers who are generally you know more exposed to uh uncertainty I believe that this  can be useful for general public uh I have many notes I have uh like the ideas but I still need  to put them in the structure that would work u a sort of like narrative Arc whatever you call it  and I'm going to do the SLE Caston work first uh which would take me I believe like uh quarter of  a year or half year basically and then I'm going to write it so it's uh I t

ry to make the journey  as interesting uh and engaging and exciting as possible because uh uh as probably Steven prfi  would uh say it uh each book is different like there is no recipe if you are not like a Serial  writer which I am not definitely how to you know apply everything you learned on a single book  to write the next one which is about something completely different so I was thinking for a  couple of years how to approach the new problem and I decided I will go with subtle custom becau

se  I believe that this is exactly the mental tool I need to do that and I highly recommend uh the book  it's uh how to take smart notes outstanding title it's it's one of the best book I I've read this  year definitely Robert it's um one of the things that I value a lot and I'm looking it for myself  for myself and from from in my in my guests uh is this willingness to improve yeah and this this  value to keep improving that life is not you have not reached the Pinnacle of success and from now 

on you can have rest and not learn new things and just uh stay at the top where it's lonely but  you're very happy that you made it uh and thank you very much for sharing this in this excitement  that you have about uh learning something new and then U valuing the the tool that you're learning  because for me uh I later realized that making the podcast was a tool to uh improve myself in  listening actively listening to people and so I can ask deeper questions and we can get into  why is this im

portant and how do you uh getting into my next question how do you find what what  do you value and the things that um uh move you forward in in like you particularly and uh what do  you teach your kids how how to find what what is valuable for them uh well I find many new ideas uh  by reading of course uh also by listening to some interesting conversation in podcasts it has been  quite a favorite format for me uh with kids uh I try to make them love books so we have this how do  you make them l

ove books yeah it's easy it's uh we have this thing uh if you go to my Facebook page  we have a sort of like a mini tradition we I call it library Saturday with kids we have a great  local library so they have a awesome selection of graphic novels of like really Children books  like they have a huge but huge children section and we go there they pick their 10 books they  want to read and then we go to a cafe or like a chocolate place where they can you know drink  chocolate and we go through the

se books and we read them before going to sleep uh of course the  older kid like the N9 years old he reads a lot by now like he reads 10 books a week probably like  most of them are comic novels and he likes you know he's highly Visual and he also pains a lot  uh so I sort of created uh this tradition for them that we go to the the library and it became  uh our routine you know and that way they sort of find out that uh they like some books more than  the others and very early they develop their

own reading preferences so I don't tell them what  to read you know I sort of for example uh our son Richard uh he's 9 years old and he's excited  about two things at the moment uh one is Minecraft and one is Pokemon and there trust me hundreds of  books about Minecraft it's crazy I I would never expect that it's a niche isn't it yeah graphic  novels manuals uh you know like uh um escape games whatever you think of there is and this it's  pretty much similar with the Pokemon manga thing so he s

ort of like read the whole section I mean  like he sort of read did and then he moved on to another thing so so I I'm not a person telling him  like you should not read about mcraft it's a waste of time you know uh it's go ahead I mean like  explore whatever you like you know and I would never judge you know his reading preferences by  telling him to read dovi whatever I mean like he will find a way you know to to read to the books  that are meaningful for him perhaps later he's now reading Harr

y Potter of course like he fell in  love with the lord of rings you know so uh you know it's about taking care of uh the child's Soul  which is different from adult Soul you know uh and about protecting it uh from from things that would  sort of you know disrupt uh its fragility somehow you know so kids are fragile in a way and we are  not overprotective parents uh uh and we are not too strict either you know so we are trying to  give them as much Freedom as possible part of it is traveling so f

or example when we arrived  to sopia uh the first day Sunday we went to a bookstore so I posted like a bookstore Sunday  with kids and they spent I don't know three hours in a bookstore going through books you  know drinking something and you know doing mess everywhere but uh that's how I do it I I think  and this also relates to myself that books are great way to explore um new future possibilities  uh of course I meet a lot of people so people like you friends of mine uh my Publishers people 

who are in new ideas into new ideas they inspire me perhaps even more because they recommend me  what to read and so on but in essence like every time I reach a conclusion that my life has to be  altered uh it's quite often related to some book one way or another that's great um last thing  uh your advice on parenting from a father to a father um one thing short yeah that book thing  Library thing is a good so map your libraries okay right because you know when I was a kid I will add  something

more to that as well but you know like libraries noway nowadays function differently than  when I was a kid you know they are not as boring places as they were you know it's that they're fun  you know and the people they working they know how to treat kids usually so hopefully in the capital  you will have a couple of of Great Library places well the other parenting stuff would be we travel  a lot with our kids when our child were first child Richie when he was like three months old he  already

traveled half of the Western Europe with us by car so we took him by car we traveled all  around the place he of course he doesn't remember a thing but we create uh photo books for kets for  every year of their life my my my spouse Lena does it so she creates a photo book like uh Richie uh  year one and there he has like all the memories he probably could not remember you know being  fixed there a sort of way so uh creating these photo books as a sort of present for them for  each Christmas is t

hat they are looking forward you know uh to it because it would enable them uh  to remember the Early Childhood you know it takes two evenings for Lena to compile them and it's  a great present it's something deeply personal you know you have to be there present to to to  do it so absolutely I know that they love this uh love this present they are looking forward for  this photo book specifically and since we travel a lot you know there are always you know lot of  stuff to be put in there you kn

ow we are we are not digital Nomads precisely because we have  this dual home like Czech Republic and andaria right so we are sort of we know that kids like  traveling like in a quick sucession for example a trip there there but it shouldn't be too much you  know like they like kids our kids especially they like stable environment so the only difference is  that we have two stable things and we sometimes do trips like this one to sofhia yeah that's great  yeah that's a good good good example I I

'm trying to tell my friends that I'm trying trying to  take our daughter Cina with us wherever we go so uh yeah thank you thank you very much for  this great advice I don't want to be like um uh sticking home just to wait for her to grow up  I want to take her placees absolutely absolutely take care places uh it will especially when they  are a bit older uh when they learn to talk uh to see that every country is different I think that's  very important lesson for them opens their minds yeah it

opens their minds it's it's sort of you  know widens their inner Universe you know yeah AG greated all right uh Robert thank you very much  for being here the layers the last question to every podcast it has been a bit more of a wish  that compared to my usual interviews but very happy to have you hopefully some of the people  that it was pleasure that have been on the your book will be on the podcast too because uh when  I started the podcast I was thinking one day I I might invite people that

are coming from Western  Europe or the states or uh like different bigger markets and where they share their own stories  and we input this knowledge into the Bulgarian listeners so they know hey they are not that  much different from us so thank you very much for for sharing your story the last question is  uh as a as an as an person that's not Bulgarian but being here um what would be your one advice  or one way that uh for us to change our country for the better well I'm I'm too shortly here

to  have actually any Impressions on that you know uh first of all I I really enjoy uh Sophia the  way it is you know it's it reminds me of Spain it has a certain it has a similar wipe I would say  M so I wouldn't change Spain and I wouldn't change bulgar well um no I think that people are uh  they spend uh a lot of time outside I believe even though you have pretty cold weather these  days I was quite surprised how many people are out there in the streets uh uh sitting out there  I mean like yo

u know like sitting cafes out there I mean in December you know yeah these people  are keen on their cigarettes yeah yeah so so uh so yeah exactly the Spain is like uh pretty much  similar in this regard so I wouldn't change that that many things uh but I would go to freelancing  uh as a topic you know uh important motive why we do this uh Freelancers on the road uh uh uh  Meetup series is that I believe that there are not enough have uh events for Freelancers in most  European countries you kno

w so my only suggestion would be perhaps that if there are Freelancers  uh listening to this uh uh interview my first recommendation that would improve you know  Bulgaria in terms of freelancing meet up as often as you can create a Meetup Group whatever  like meet up very informally just do it like talk to others uh it may be also centered around you  perhaps why not you are a freelancer yourself so you would be a great uh first speaker on such  a Meetup and uh we did this one in networking prem

ium they were really awesome like I really  like the co-working place so thank you for that uh networking premium colleagues uh you were great  and uh second recommendation how to support a you know local freelance economy would be whenever  you find an article on a podcast episode uh uh ofen freelancer talking about their business  talking about their business experience talking about the freelancing experience share it make  it spread you know like uh don't only if you are a freelancer don't o

nly share your point of view  try to highlight others and highlight the quality you see in others this will make uh the phenomenon  you know being more recognized and more connected which is uh the most important thing in the  end because if people know that Freelancers are different that they uh have a very specific  way of running their business it makes also the clients more informed and more uh willing to Value  the contribution the Freelancers provide you know so they it's important to have

informed informed  customers same thing applies for podcasters when I was starting I was thinking okay we we need to  spread there must be more podcast so more people learn about podcasting so more uh advertisers  know about being able so it's like growing an ecosystem isn't it yeah absolutely great that's  what I mean that's great example I I Adore the power of environment power of communities so  uh thank you very much for contributing to ours freelance Community there's this place called  ba

nso which is one of the best dig places in Europe there are a lot of uh Freelancers going  there I know that you're heading towards BTV so I'll be letting you go on your way towards  other interviews uh and switching to Bulgarian now [Music] for [Music] [Music]