Ex-CIA operative explains why Putin is ‘scared’ after Navalny’s death

Steve Hall, former CIA chief of Russia operations. And Steve, as I listen to those restrictions there, it strikes me that not only was Vladimir Putin fearful of Navalny in life as an opposition figure, but that he fears him even in death and the support that he might average Russians might show to him? Yeah, absolutely, Jim. I mean, that's really the only explanation as to as to why it would be that they would take all these extraordinary measures. I mean, setting aside the horrific human side o

f this, I mean, can you imagine, you know, being a family member and being told, hey, you better make up your mind on this quick because your son's decomposing? I mean, it's horrific. But aside from that, it really does show the great fear and concern that the Kremlin has about this sort of spawning a larger opposition movement around Navalny. And, you know, this is why they're this is why they are also in an incredibly inhumane fashion, mocking his widow, you know, ascribing all sorts of horrif

ic things to her as well, because they fear this level of of of sort of motivation and mobilization of Russians society behind Navalny. It's a great fear. And it's really interesting to see how scared Putin is of this. The timing of his death was notable given it took place during the Munich Security Conference when you had so many people from around the world there gathered to show their support for Ukraine, did discuss that. It seemed like it might be a signal potentially. I mean, given these

restrictions, will we ever truly know with any certainty or confidence how he died in this prison? I mean, there's sort of two levels to that question. I mean, it's entirely possible, given how how Putin controls Russia and how all information coming out of Russia is automatically suspect. It's entirely possible. We'll never know the actual mechanism of his death. That said, I think that's less important than the overriding fact that it is Putin's responsibility that he is dead. So how it actual

ly happened, you know, might be there's a lot of speculation there, but the important fact is Putin and his in his mechanism of Putinism, his secret services and all the secret police and intelligence services. They're the ones who are responsible for Navalny's death at the end of the day. And we should note that in 2020, they use the most powerful nerve agent in the world in a first attempt to kill him. We're learning more details tonight about what exactly the sanctions that the Biden administ

ration plans to put on Russia, not just in response to the bounties death, but also marking the two year anniversary of the full scale invasion of Ukraine. We're talking about hundreds of sanctions, some of which will directly target Putin. I wonder, though, will they have an impact because they've been a whole host of sanctions over the last several years and Russia is still in Ukraine. Russia still eliminating its opponents inside and outside the country. Yeah, you know, I really think they do

actually have an impact, Jim, And they're not they're not entirely emotionally satisfying for many of us because we're used to, you know, you know, whether it's, you know, a bomb exploding or a missile strike or something like that. I mean, that's an admission and an immediate response by the United States or their allies to some threat. And sanctions work differently. They're harder to find. They're harder to measure. But I can tell you there's one good measure, and that is what does the Kreml

in think about them. And the Kremlin has been pretty consistent about saying they're illegal. You know, they shouldn't be done. So I think they're very concerned about those sanctions over the over the long run. Steve Hall, thanks so much. Sure. OUTFRONT now, Yevgenia KARA-MURZA, the wife of jailed Putin critic Vladimir KARA-MURZA joins us. And good to have you on. Thanks for taking the time. Hello, Jim. Thank you very much for inviting me. I want to begin by asking you about the video we saw to

day from Alexei Navalny's mother. She said officials told her that if she does not agree to a secret funeral for her son, quote, They will do something with my son's body. When you heard that, I wonder what your reaction was when you. I was absolutely enraged. I mean, first they tried to kill him with poison. He survives. They throw him in prison. They tortured him three years. They kill him. And now they refuse to give his body back to his mother so she can say her goodbyes and she can bury him

properly. I mean, this is so despicably twisted and cruel. But it also shows how much they're afraid of him. The Russian authorities are afraid of Alexei even dead. They do not want to allow his supporters yet millions of people, his supporters and his family to say their goodbyes. They're going to do everything in secret that is despicable, twisted. And I don't know. I just I was watching that video and thinking, oh, how how dare they look her in the eyes? The mother who just lost her son and

not just lost him. They know he was murdered. She knows he was murdered. How dare they look her in the eyes and tell her those things, those despicable things, and making threats. That is just. Yeah. It seems deliberately humiliating. Humiliating. I want to play more, if I can, of what Navalny's mother said after she tried to get her son's body. Have a listen. But when you them according. To the law, they should have given me Alexis body right away. But they haven't done it yet. Instead, they bl

ackmailed me in that conditions for where, when, and how Alexis should be buried. It is illegal. Now she's being very public about this. Do you have any concern for her safety at this point? You know, anyone who challenges the regime and the regime's decisions in any way is in danger. Absolutely. But I also from watching that video, I realize that she will not be stopped. She she's going through hell. She has just lost her son. And yet she is composed and strong and forceful. And I would not I m

ean, if I were, then I. I would do everything she says and do it fast. Well, listen, I know you've been forced to go through your own personal hell with your husband's treatment. And your husband sent a message today on video from prison in Omsk, Russia. I know you rarely get to hear his voice these days, so I want to play a portion of his speaking. Him speaking in Russian will translated at the bottom of a screen from for our viewers. Have a listen. I want to get your thoughts. You know, the gr

eatest of all, because it was, you know, the leadership change. She is on a flagship and, you know, she was here in Washington speaking out because she was more reasonable in regards to climate change and the issues regarding continuity in Russia. I guess you guys should feel what you're doing. You you know, I'm watching you react there and I can only imagine myself in the same position. What is it like? How do you manage to hear him see him behind bars? Well, you know, when someone sent me this

video today, I was so happy because that is the only way I get to hear my husband's voice nowadays. When he gets those rare chances to speak during one of his court hearings. And, you know, it amazes me how these people, these political prisoners in today's Russia, not just my husband, but him as well, they try to lift our spirits. They're the ones behind bars. They're the ones suffering in absolutely inhumane conditions. And they're trying to lift our spirits. They tell us to not give up. And

what Vladimir says here in this video is, of course, quintessential Vladimir. Only he could talk about honoring our fallen colleagues and friends by being stronger and by fighting even more, even fiercer and by not giving up because this is what the regime would want us to see. And this is why also Vladimir refused to leave the country despite all those attacks on his life, because he said that this this what they would want me to do to flee. To get scared and to flee. And I will not give them t

he satisfaction. I remember him saying this many times, and so hearing it from him today meant a lot to me.