- Good morning, good
evening, good afternoon, in the time-honored COVID era, welcome to this important webinar. We're focusing on Bangladesh and focusing also on a learning effort on a topic that we see is
of critical importance, which is what's happening
particularly to girls, but also of course, to young people and to people more generally, in terms of education
in the COVID pandemic. We know from many places, that during crises when schools shut, girls tend not to go back. They tend to suffer
more domestic violence, and there's quite a bit of evidence of increases in child
marriage among other issues. So this event is centered
around a new brief that we will describe,
that looks particularly at religious dimensions of
these very critical problems. To give you some of the standard provisos, this event is being recorded, and the video of the
event will be available, will be sent to all who registered, but it will also be available on the Berkeley Center WFDD websites. And you can rais
e questions at any point in the Q&A that is at the
bottom of your screen. I think those are the
critical housekeeping issues. So with that, once again,
the focus today is on girls. And we know the critical
importance of education of girls may be the single most
productive investment that any country and society can make. And that is why we're focusing so sharply on some of the dangers. So Samia, you're sitting in
Dhaka at the BRAC University, where you have multiple roles, I think you're also an
anthropologist. And the CVs of our colleagues are on the Berkeley Center website. But Samia, could you situate
the situation in Bangladesh, both in terms of what you're
seeing and what you know, perhaps even any questions you have, areas that you think we should focus on, and describe it in
terms of our partnership and our relationship. So over to you. - Thank you, Katherine,
very good morning to you. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening to everybody who's joining us from wherever you're
joining us from. Thank you, I think Katherine, this is a very, very tiny event. just because the COVID pandemic, I think, has left a certain kind of
impact that we don't really, that we don't see going away very soon, not in the very near future. And it's especially in Bangladesh,
which some estimates say that we've had the longest school closure of any place in the world. And the kind of disruption
to education, to teachers, and to the learning
process that that creates. One point is that we're
going
to have to try to recover some of these losses, but also
I think we have to remember that the losses that come to us right now are not coming to us in
a vacuum out of the blue. There have been certain
education challenges that we've been experiencing
in Bangladesh for a while, amidst the many, many
progresses that have been made, notably vis-a-vis girls' education. So Bangladesh, just to give everybody a little bit of a background, valuation has made some
significant strides in secondary
education and gender parity in secondary education
over the past 30 years. And there's been, of course, we've had the government working in partnership with the World Bank, with the Asian Development
Bank for various schemes, programs that have allowed that to happen. Yet, Bangladesh is a country where, in spite of many progresses,
certain challenges remain by way of gender parity, child
marriage remains a big one. And as we think about how to mainstream girls, women, young women in education, t
hese other social cultural
issues or challenges that remain in spite of a lot of
development progresses, are ones that we must
continue to think of. During the COVID times, of course, we've seen that girls
have been doubly affected simply because the public health messaging and then the school closure of
girls having to remain home, sheds very critical light on the question of what the home is. And oftentimes we know in very strongly patriarchal societies, that home has a double burden
for girls
and for women, both by way of domestic work, the extra burden of domestic
work, domestic violence, and then of course, the
question of child marriage, which we have seen being exacerbated during the COVID crisis
and the school closure. So we've done, Katherine,
as you mentioned, our partnership, which is
now quite a long partnership, and our work dwells on a bit of research, a bit of policy advocacy and
platform building and dialogue, notably between manager sectors and secular actors in develo
pment, in the field of development. We've actually done
some work on education, to look at how, and in what
ways education is cohesive in the Bangladesh Landscape. And of course, the
question of, or looking at, or trying to assess the
issues through gender, was a big kind of avenue or
window into understanding the question of social
pollution and education. And we find that there are
some shortfalls for sure. One is we at the governmental level, we try to look at things
like access parity, but o
ftentimes what we don't
look at is content, quality, and how to make these public spaces, the spaces of education,
sites of education, welcoming to girls. So that they not only
have parity of access, but also parity in retention, parity in the pathways that are provided once girls leave secondary schools and enter higher education, once they leave higher education
and enter the workforce. So to that end, I think
our work, and of course, these are shared by various other kinds of research insight
s, not just from Bangladesh,
from all over the world. When we think about education for a developing
landscape like Bangladesh, is that, where is the solution? One, like I said is to address and tackle the COVID
issue, the COVID crisis and the education deficit
that has happened, but also that builds
upon existing fissures that we've already had. So in that, I think it's
important that we look at, and I know Mr. Mokhlesur
Rahman is here today and he will probably shed light on some of the plans
that
the World Bank has had, or is undertaking
through the HEAT Project. But I think to mainstream or to encourage or to bring girls in, remains
something that we must do. But also as do that, we have to think of how to keep girls in. In improving access to technology
during COVID, post COVID, could become a boon. Remote learning is something
that could really give access to people in remote areas, to girls who oftentimes cannot leave home. Girls will have gotten married,
willingly or unwillingl
y, but wish to continue. So I think that the fact
that we have now toyed with technology in education, we should think about how to maximize this and what goes into this. So I think in a way, even as we go back to
schools and universities, keeping this space alive is
probably an important learning that we could come around
the table in Bangladesh and discuss, how do we keep this alive? How does this technology become so rampant that it indeed becomes a
blessing in the years to come, especially i
n terms of
giving girls greater access. And then I can come
back to this, Katherine, because I might be running over time. But I think as we do that, we need to also think about
content, quality, methods, teaching, pedagogy, and not to leave out, additional mechanisms of
girls being engaged civically within their community,
through their thought towards their own experiential learning, that are also initiatives and things that we can think about,
as we come together to think about a sustainable
solutions forward. - Just a sentence or two, what's
religion got to do with it? I know that's your life's
work, but just so for people who are not familiar with
some of those dimensions. - Absolutely, what's
religion got to do with it? Religion and gender are
always at loggerheads. Okay and I think the task of many of us that feel very strongly about
doing something about this, is to think about how religion can play a more productive role. And I think in that,
dialogue is very important. How do
we get faith factors and non-faith factors to understand that this is an important dimension. Of course, in Bangladesh, there's the additional issue
of the madrasas, right? It's a very, very important
segment of education delivery, it services many, many
millions of students. So to leave that whole segment
out of the conversation is really not... it's just
scratching the surface, in terms of remedies. So religion has a lot to do with it, in terms of how we about
gender norms and priorities. Rel
igion can have quite
a bit to do with it, if we bring people
across the table together to find solutions together. - That's a very provocative and important set of observations
that we can come back to. But I'd like to turn now to my
colleague, Mokhlesur Rahman, who's also in Dhaka and has
worked on education issues and for the bank for a long time. I think these are issues that
I know are of central concern to the World Bank, but also to the development
community at large, the issues that we ha
ve on the
table of women's education, and both what's happening in COVID, but what might be the opportunities
as we hopefully emerge. So over to you. - Thank you very much. I think, let me start with a two or three sentences of background. And you know the girls' education, how it comes to the
limelight in Bangladesh. Date back late 70s, some program undertaken
by USAID and an NGO, BRAC, in the NGO name was BRAC, that started how girls can
be brought into the school. It grown up to 84, then
the
project come off, they have done something. And finally, in early 90s, so
I did also part of this study, how to bring the girls to school. 1993, the first, I should say, the most important decision
was made in Bangladesh, that providing a stipend to only the girls whether they are poor or rich, they will receive the
stipend from the government, first time introduced. And that actually made miracle until 2006, that program ran everywhere. And we have seen from 17% to almost 50% girls are in this
school. That's a one is to one is there. In 2010, MDC gold Bangladesh (indistinct). It's a much earlier
than any other country. Currently in primary,
girls are more than boys. Secondary, girls are more than boys. In tertiary education,
is almost 50%, it's 48. So I see the girls' education compared to other South Asian countries, Bangladesh is ahead of them. We have undertaken a study
on mother's education that shows mothers who
are students are good, compared to the general education, are good i
n math and science. We have tried the project, but how about we could not do that, but we are supporting all the
public and private madrasas, who are registered with the government. Background finished. So I like to say, that while you are talking
about HEAT projects, and you know, bank, we
are working globally. And then there is our
technology project is key. And its objective is enhancing
the leadership of women in our education. It's not only for Bangladesh,
it covers South Asia region. This
is the first HD project,
human development project, bank used a lot of
jargon, that's my problem. We do (laughing). So we had a standing with
Afghanistan and Bangladesh, we know that what is
happening in Afghanistan now, but soon other countries, we
are expecting to join with us. So in the limelight, Nepal will come up, India, we are working
currently informally, India not joined with us formally. Around 40 universities
are working with us, we have a network. Afghanistan already, their
students
will come up. And beyond South Asia, China
will be joining with us, especially China Women University. They have that already providing support for teachers training. And in Bangladesh, there
are two women university. One is we called International University, Asian University for Women, and another one is City University. Samia, I think I'm making, it's not city, what is the name of that women
university in the Old Dhaka? - Central Women's University. - Exactly, Central Women's University. Thos
e two women in universities
part of this HEAT project. And from Nepal, two university already
working with us informally. What we are looking, why it is actually so important for BRAC. If we look into them and we
are taking that access is boom, graduation also coming out, but if you look into that
job rate, global perspective, South Asia, is reducing. Instead of adding more jobs, women are dropping from the job. Why it is happening. We discovered that from
our World Education Report, I think all
of you have a copy of that. And clearly identified the
areas why this happened. the sororities, quality, collaboration, and across that the job
ready education is a problem, which include non-cognitive skills. So that part we have come
up and social stigma, that's one of the things has come up. So we are working on
it and we are expecting the project just approved
by the World Bank and the Afghanistan just
to complete the signing of the financing agreement. Without signing the financing agreeme
nt, we can't start implementation. Bangladesh, yet to sign
the financing agreement. We're expecting by next month, if financing agreement is signed, then Bangladesh and Afghanistan will to start implementation, initiated, which will be the general part. And we are expecting there
will be lots of activities, will come up for helping the
early education graduates, especially women, because
we are going to support, provide a stipend or a scholarship for the students, the women students enrolling in
Asian University for Women and other universities, coming from mainly Afghanistan
study and down to the line, other countries will also join. Their study generally, is two component, one regional and other national. If we look at the national component, national component is a follow
up of our earlier project, which we call Higher Education
Quality Enhancement Project. That project actually made
milestone in that country. Many things happened. I will highlight later on, but
those are the previo
us thing, but what we are going to do here, that will be employability
index will be there. Women will get a special support, and would like to see a
STEM education is more, and research and
innovation is taking place. This HEAT broad summary, it
will have COVID response, for both that countries at the same time, all South Asia will receive
support from this project. And you are talking about technology. There were previous projects,
HEAT has established Bangladesh Research and Education Network
. Until COVID, only 39 public university, and a few private university I remember. Now all public private
universities become members, which I did not do nine years, it has happened in three months. So COVID has some blessings, for using technology for education, especially higher education. And you know that when
every country is there, research and education network is there, and now even BRAC University
also member of BdREN. And what we are thinking that this project will have that enhanced c
apacity, and which you will reach after the Bangladesh's two
types of higher education. One is university and other is colleges. It's a British system. So they colleges under
the national university. It has actually 70% of the student. Higher education students are in colleges out of the national university. - Could you say that again? What was that figure again? - 70% and 30% that are what,
in quarantine did you say. - Say it is around 4.5 million
students in higher education. So if we say more
than
70% in national university and open university,
at least are coming out to the public and private university. - Hmm, I see. - That's the situation. So we are expecting to reach,
provide digital support for all the public and
private universities and the two type of higher education. And currently we have another project which also I'm leading, which is called College
Education Development Project. So we are providing technology
support there through BdREN. So we hope, what BdREN is
providi
ng connectivity mean, the content, digital
content yet to be made. So what we are planning
that during the first phase, I can't the state university
provided us support for establishing that BdREN. And now we are talking
with Global all rents, how to bring the,
alternatively, APQN is here. Again, I'm coming up with jargon, Asia-Pacific Quality
Issuance Network is one. Then Asia-Pacific Association of Networks, also working on it. And we hope that will happen. And we are also involving South
Asia
regional organization, which we call SAARC. And that will be part of this
collaboration of this project. So we hope technology will
be making a big difference in the higher education sector. And we are actually look
at this most difficult area in this country we are facing
for higher education graduate is the sub-districts. So are you like to see that
global knowledge is used, because there is no subs curriculum for developing the sub-districts. So how we can enhance it. We are looking for part
nerships with many international universities and higher education knowledge houses. And you know that, am I
longer time, I don't know. Please, let me- - Well, why don't we move on to Sarah and then come back to you, because I have a lot of questions. I'm sure you and Samia also
we'll have much to discuss in terms of both the present crisis that is facing higher
education with COVID, but also how that integrates
with possibilities for taking advantage of the
miracle that you described, to try to
deal with the setbacks,
but also to look forward. So I'd like to turn to Sarah Thompson, my colleague at the World
Faith Development Dialogue, who prepared the brief document, which really focuses on the COVID impact on the miracle of girl's
education in Bangladesh. In other words, the extraordinary progress and some of the immediate risks. And this focuses, it
builds on work we've done on the education roles played
by religious institutions, both as separate
institutions, the madrasas, but als
o Catholic education and so on, but also the way that religion as a factor in social cohesion is addressed in the
public education system. But Sarah, why don't you
introduce some of the thinking behind the document that
you've just completed? - Sure. Hi, everyone, as Katherine mentioned, I'm the project manager for the Bangladesh: Religious Dimensions of Development and Social
Cohesion project at WFDD. And yesterday, we just published policy brief that Katherine
mentioned and titled, "Educating
Girls and
Countering Child Marriage, and Opportunities For Faith Engagement." And we really focus on a brief education profile of Bangladesh. We focus on female madrasas and how COVID has led to a
sharp uptick in child marriage. And as Samia mentioned before, a lot of these issues were
existing before COVID, and COVID has only
exacerbated these issues. Already, I think Bangladesh,
according to recent numbers, is number four in the
world for child marriage. And that is something that education ha
s
definitely helped lower, but it's still a problem and you focus on that and the brief. But COVID has really affected over 38 million students in Bangladesh, along with 1 million teachers. And as of March, 2021,
according to UNESCO, and I still believe this holds true, Bangladesh has one of the world's longest full-school closures,
which is very concerning. But a special lens that
we focus on in the brief is the female madrasas. And, you know, madrasas
are Islamic institutions. They play large
role in educating a lot of students in Bangladesh, especially in more remote
or marginalized areas. And to give a bit of
background and context, there are generally two
streams on madrasa education. There's the Quomi madrasas, which are usually more
traditional that are unreformed and they're largely funded by
charity funds and donations. And then the Aliya madrasas
are more mainstream state-reformed madrasas
that are state-supported. And as I just mentioned, all schools have closed in Banglades
h, but the Quomi madrasas, which are the more traditional ones supported by charities and private donors, a lot of them have largely
managed to stay open, which has been both good and bad, but we've seen through
studies that a lot of parents prefer to send their daughters
to the Columbia madrasas because not only they stayed open, but they tend to be a
more affordable option, because they're not having
to pay for a lot of materials or a lot of virtual at
home learning tools, such as internet con
nection,
computers, phones, things like that. So that has been a good
option for parents. And we see that a lot of parents also like to send them to those schools 'cause they're more conservative. A lot of times it's gender segregated and it's just been a great option and is catered to a lot of girls when a lot of them have
fallen through the cracks due to everything that has been going on. And, of course, we have to
look at some the positive and negative sides, and a concern among a
lot of educ
ation experts is that these madrasas can accentuate some regressive social attitudes among the youth population
that they're serving. They can serve to perpetuate a lot of traditional
patriarchal gender norms. And a lot of these madrasas, girls they're receive kind of
extra curricular activities where they're learning proper
Islamic etiquette and manners, and that moves toward
constructing an ideal woman and a guardian of
Islamic virtue and piety. So, and we know that a
lot of times textbooks an
d things you've learned in schools can really re-inform gender prejudices. So one of our past reports
that WFDD and CPJ worked on was a textbook review where we looked at the
content of the textbooks in both secular state schools and then in religious
schools like madrasas. And we see that while gender prejudice, of course, prevail in
both of these textbooks, secular and religious, the
Quomi madrasa textbooks particularly tend to propagate a lot of heteronormative gender roles and at a higher ra
te than other textbooks. And we know that textbooks definitely reinforced social attitudes and can kind of make youth
think differently about women and their roles in society. So that's of particular worry. And then once again,
that some are concerned, the madrasas can promote a lot more conservative
social norms among students. And also they tend to cater towards conservative
families and communities and catered to a lot of
their religious preferences. So that's something we
need more studies o
n and to be looked at. But we offer a lot of
recommendations in the policy brief of to even during COVID and post COVID, how secular policy makers,
development actors, NGOs, can work towards collaborating
with faith communities. Because as Katherine and Samia mentioned, faith plays a large role
in society in Bangladesh, and working together towards a common goal is something that's of utmost importance of this project moving forward. So looking towards how things can improve, we talk about how,
when schools do reopen, waiving school fees, whether for government
or religious schools. That has shown it's worked
in a lot of post-conflict post-disaster areas all
throughout the world. And one that we mentioned
going back to our past work, is revising textbooks to
be more gender inclusive. So when they're depicted
as harming or being harmful or more aggressive attitudes about women, these certainly reproduce
social constructs and shape worldviews of students. So working with educators
and cu
rriculum writers, and even working with faith
communities and educators to lobby together for the depiction, the better, more positive depiction of girls and women in school texts, could definitely have a big influence. And one of the other reasons we are looking at the madrasa education is that girls clubs in
schools is super important, whether they be in the state schools or the religious schools. They build confidence, they
help build capacity of girls and post COVID, this could
be girls club
s in schools, could be a thing that
definitely empowers girls, with either fell behind emotionally or mentally during the pandemic. We definitely know the mental
health crisis affecting youth because of school lockdowns and closure. So this could definitely
have a really positive impact on girls and their families and parents. And that's something
that parents, teachers and faith leaders could get involved in. And there's evidence that this has worked
wonderfully in the past. And one of the othe
r topics of the brief is the uptick in child marriage. So as we know, when girls fall behind and or dropped out of school, a lot of them tend to not come back and a lot of them get married. You know, child marriage is defined as being married
under the age of 18. And this has repercussions
for the economy, for girls entering the workforce. And a lot of families do this
as a protection mechanism, either for financial reasons,
to preserve their honor, to preserve family honor, food security has a
lot to do with it. And oftentimes to protect girls from sexual violence and harassment. And a lot of families and faith leaders fear that when girls are out of school, that they could start
inappropriate early relationships, could risk becoming pregnant
without being married. So a lot of times, faith communities of
all major world faiths frame it as early
marriage or child marriage could be seen as a prevention strategy to minimize the risk of
girls becoming, you know, engaging in behavior that
that's deemed inappropriate. So it's a very complex topic and one that we need to
look at from all sides. - Excellent. Thank you so much. So I think, just to take
stock of where we are, and we have quite a few
questions coming in. So I think we should turn to those and also have you exchange
views among yourselves. First of all, we have the remarkable story of leadership from Bangladesh, which really stands out on a global scale. And really underscores
the finding from research and evidence that
girls'
education is profoundly important in changing social norms, as well as in the nation's
economic progress. That Bangladesh has had
active programs to do this, and that they have involved cooperation with religious
leaders and communities. And Bangladesh has a
substantial state supported, which Mokhlesur emphasized, engagement with at least
part of the madrasa schools, as well as with other religious schools. The negative side is that there are still some
substantial social issues and the
high rates of child marriage, almost unexpectedly high
and violence against women. Another topic we've looked at is the rape crisis in Bangladesh. So these underlying problems
have all been exacerbated and highlighted by the COVID crisis, with Bangladesh having one of the longest experiences of school
closure of any country, I think in the world. So the question is, what's
been done to compensate? What are some of the reactions which include increases in both
violence and child marriage? and wha
t opportunities does this suggest looking forward after COVID,
which we're all dreaming of? But let me start with a question which Mokhlesur answered online, but I think it is a fundamental question linked to what we're saying is, is there any disparity between
girls and boys drop out in primary and in secondary education? How much do we know about that? And of course at the moment,
it all looks temporary, I guess girls who are not
participating in online education, but how clear is that? And yo
u've answered that the
girls drop out is higher, particularly in secondary. But is there, maybe both
Samia and Mokhlesur, could comment on that because
of course it's critical, what's actually happening now. Mokhlesur or Samia, whichever
one wants to go first. - Okay, I think Samia's taking some time. I think COVID in our recent study also, my colleague has published a report, I think it is also you guys use it. So it clearly shows the secondary girls marriage is actually increasing. So under th
is marriage is going on. And there are even violence also, we're finding that it
is an increasing trend. And even not only girls in education, is family feud actually increased. Because normally the
men are not at the home So is the women domain home it has been, now men are also there. So there are unnecessary
violence are happening. And even government has to
take some kind of social media, how to bring it down. Even that's happened also in India, but that's also even the
political voice also
has come up that don't treat each other properly, otherwise violence will increase. But girls' marriage, under this girls' marriage is increasing. And COVID might have
further exacerbated it. And in terms of drop out and access, you know, when the
government is trying to reach all the students in
secondary, even in primary, even in technical
education, it's not easy. So it is today, remote
areas is very important. The connectivity is an issue,
it's costs and the equipment, this is not easy. And
that even government
own study does not show it is very encouraging. But government is trying
and World Bank also, we are supporting primary and secondary for developing the digital content, and how government should use a different kind of cloud system, so the downloading time
would be much less. But while there is no learning
management infrastructure, doing these things is not easy. Even many developed country, they don't have learning
management infrastructure. They have planning management
system in institute to institute (indistinct). But a national wide learning
management infrastructure is a huge investment. And World Bank is actually now supporting learning into infrastructure,
management infrastructure, and that it will finance
around $150 million for that, will be given. We hope post COVID, it
will be a blended learning and the reach to the
rural will also happen. Over to Samia, I think
that you'd like to add. - And Samia, can I also, I'd like you to sort of say what we know
, what we don't know about digital divide, but also about what's
gonna happen to the girls when these schools open. But we also have a couple of questions that are a different area that I know you and I
talk about all the time, which is what's happening
to the Rohingya refugees, and the education there. I know it's a different issue and Mokhlesur may also have
something to say on that, but those are some of
the questions coming in. - Thank you, Katherine,
before I go into the question, I just wa
nted to pick up
on something Sarah said, because I think what Mr.
Rahman has just told us that, developing a nationwide learning
management infrastructure, these things will clearly,
clearly add a lot of value and direction to how we
manage education, right? But Sarah actually ended with
the question of girls clubs, and I know he just looking
at higher education. And even there from the
Center for Peace and Justice, we did some work with rural
women a few years ago, and in universities outside D
haka. So sort of in peri-urban areas because we know that Dhaka
University has many facilities, Dhaka-based universities do many things. Private universities are
slightly more resource rich, but what happens to all these
universities outside Dhaka in peri-urban areas where a lot of rural girls actually come, with a lot of aspirations. And we run a project and we
had sort of empowered the girls to tell us what they need. And interestingly, what
they needed was clubs that was going to speak specif
ically on lives and aspirations of women, work specifically towards gender equality. So there's literature
clubs, there's science club, the very kind of literacy numeracy angle that we think about in education, that there has been substantial investment in education already. But these universities said
we don't have a platform from where we can talk
about sexual harassment, or we can talk about
the fact that, you know, I returned late from
tuition for my BCS exams, but my landlord won't let me
c
ome back so early, you know. What are some of the
ways around these things? So I think Sarah, just to pick up on Sarah's
point that these clubs, as we think about
bolstering higher education and women's role in higher education, so that they indeed have become
leaders in their community and have productive pathways, right, onwards from higher education. I think the importance of
these clubs and associations becomes very important, right? One thing is to up how
we disseminate education and how we
manage that. But again, to come back, not
just to education content, but to also co-curricular content, becomes very, very important. I think I can't sort of,
I mean, state that enough. But Katherine, your other question was, what do we know, what
do we not know about- - Well, the questions of the
impact of the school closures and the dropouts, and perhaps
even the differential impact of the fact that some
of the Quomi madrasas have in fact, remained open. So I don't think we have very
good inf
ormation about that. - No, thank you, I think
that's... thank you. I was thinking about that
sort of important information being left out. So in terms of when schools open, there's a number of possibilities. I doubt it will seamlessly
go back to what it was. I think if we don't try to
manage this and prioritize the reopening of education institutions, I think that is a number
one priority right now. I think we run the risk of, you know, a good chunk of cohort falling
off the education treadmill
simply because it's been too disruptive, it's been too many years, they haven't had access to technology, they can't keep up with the work. And of course, there's
also substantial decrease in learning quality. So with disrupted access to
internet and all of that, you know, how many... I know various girls from
marginalized communities, poor communities who can just check in with their teacher meeting once a week. So I fear that unless we
really prioritize reopening and then beef up the reopening
with other kinds of measures, technology being one of them, is blended learning
indeed is the way forward? Which I believe it is. I think we're going to be
suffering from substantial losses. Now we know without COVID even
once early marriage happens I was actually involved in
a project on early marriage and education, madrasa
education a couple of years ago, this was funded by the Australians. We know that once early marriage happens, it's very, very difficult
for girls to get back home for a v
ariety of reasons, teen
pregnancy, so and so forth. So I think that's one thing. The other thing is a lot of Quomi madrasas actually didn't go, because
they're not just schools, they're boarding schools in a way, That provide boarding and lodging. And whether they remained safe or not in terms of COVID protocol, because our vaccination
drive has been slow and sort of staggering. So I suspect we haven't
necessarily been vaccinated and see yet they remain together and open. So they probably didn't
have
the kind of learnings deficit that schools that were
forced to shut down did. However, what we know
about madrasa education vis-a-vis gender parity, not
vis-a-vis literacy numeracy, because we know as Mr.
Rahman has already told us, they do fairly well in math and English. And we know that they're very disciplined. Oftentimes they become, when they do go on to
graduate and get jobs, they're disciplined they're
trustworthy, all of that, we know all of that. But also girls coming out
of madr
asas usually end up, and this we know through research, end not becoming madrasa teachers at best. The rest we actually don't know about. So rather than treating this as something that's a separate
segment of the population, this is part of the education landscape. And if we feel that at the
level of higher education, they benefit from certain initiatives that bring out women's voices, that collectivize women's voices, women's voices, and it could be from
even a faith perspective if that's what
they're more
comfortable with, that's fine. But I think that something that I think it's worthwhile to assess if those initiatives can be meaningful in the madrasa context as well. Regarding the Rohingya education, the camps have lost access during COVID. It's been various NGOs, INGOs
that were working there. It's been difficult to keep
their work going in COVID. We've been in the last couple of months, had terrible monsoon and
lack of access to the camps, and all of all of that
have been exacer
bated. There are various initiatives, officially the government
has not allowed education, but of course, there were
various NGOs that were offering literacy and numeracy,
various kinds of clubs, and also thinking about pathways, so that indeed students who
were maybe high school level, when they entered the camps
can have opportunities later. But I think the government has
a moratorium on that for now. So it's sort of a little
bit stagnant right now. - Well, we have seven minutes left only. I'm
going to come you next, but just let me say what we're gonna do. So that we have seven minutes left. We have a host of very
interesting questions. This is clearly a topic
people are interested. So I'm going to give each of you time, Mokhlesur to respond to the
Rohingya issue, I think, but also any sort of final comments, particularly looking ahead. And we will look at all the questions and see what we can do to
figure out how to respond, because we won't be able
to do that in six minutes. So I
will go, Mokhlesur,
Sarah and then Samia, for... just keep in mind what the time. - Yeah. Yeah. I think Rohingya education is all taken up by the government too. World Bank has invested $150 million. Just last June, our own
project was completed, and our $500 million is in the pipeline, and those are health
and education projects. And that's an addition project. And handed 200 million in the pipeline and now the final decision
in the Prime Minister Office, if it is coming up, we are going to pro
vide
education also there. So primary and technical skills
training we have provided, and BRAC was also one of the
participant in that program. In terms of Rohingya education, you know, the political
sensitivities are there. We need to consider that
how that also be addressed. Over to you. - Okay, but do you have any other comments before we as sort of, you've
looked at the questions and you answered some of them, but are there any points
you want to emphasize. - In terms of religion and educati
on. This is one of the country in South Asia where religious violence is much less. It's a really, really harmonious society. So how we can nourish this
harmonious relationship to upgrade it educational
level and employability, so that the poorer segment of people normally going to the Quomi madrasas, how we can build them
up to the alpha level. I think we need to work together. And even my family also
running the Quomi madrasa, I'm telling you it's 150 years old. So we exactly know who are
the
people we are supporting. I am also contributing,
this is a private financing. And we need to look into how
that can be institutionalized. Thank you. - Yeah, no, we agree very much and would love to focus on that. Sarah, do you wanna pick
up a couple final comments? I see you've answered
some already in the Q&A, but we at least what are some highlights? - Sure, something that I wanted to add that we touch on in the brief, that if you'd like to find
the brief, by the way, I believe, Georgetown's
Berkeley Center has commented in the
chat for everyone to see, if you'd like to follow the link. But another thing that
we highlight is that, you know, it's important to focus on hiring more female teachers in both madrasas and the
government run public schools. Research has showed us
that in various countries all over the world that
hiring more female teachers and having more female
teachers in the classroom, is really important for driving
girls education outcomes. Especially in more
socially
conservative areas where girls may not be
able to go to school unless they're female teachers. And madrasas are typically
traditionally male dominated. So I think, presence of female teachers doesn't just serve girls but
can also serve for boys as well and drive more progressive thinking. So that should be a focus of policymakers and educators as well. - Samia, do you want to
pick up any of the questions or any further thoughts in
our three minutes remaining? - You are muted. - I think for us, t
he
question of working together and actually thinking, I know that Mokhlesur, you
have lots of great ideas since all of you have come up
with this project together. And I think between various universities, I was actually just
responding to a question about girls clubs, And I'd mentioned the UN women peace cafes that we coordinate from the
Center for Peace and Justice at BRAC University. There are some good
practices that we also have within the public and
the private university setting in Bangl
adesh. And of course, there are
transnational connections that all of us have,
Katherine, you and I have. Mr. Mokhlesur, why you are now laiasing with institutions all over the world. So I think, further dialogue looking at some of the best practices to see how we can learn from each other and how we can mobilize
some of the good ideas, some of the lessons learned
further and scale up, is probably a good way forward. And of course, going back
to the original question, Katherine, that you and I w
orked on, what does religion have to do with it? You know, we can see it
has nothing to do with it, but when we are a religiously
observant society, and as Mokhlesur, you've pointed out, I have family members
who patronize madrasas, because it's a part of how,
it's a part of our culture. It's a part of how we
give back to our society. So that segment also cannot be
left out of the conversation, when we think about scaling up, when we think about doing things that are for the public good and the
greater good of the country. I think, we must continue
to build these bridges, have these dialogues, these conversations. The more people we can
bring around the table to think about, to replicate,
scale-up best practices, the better our chances of being
successful at these issues. Gender parity has been a
priority for Bangladesh, and there will always be great initiatives and there will be shortfalls. And I think the fact
that you are prioritizing gender in this particular project, and it's mor
e notably
about gender in education, is a very hopeful step forward. So thank you for that,
and thank you, Katherine. I think that, sorry. - Unfortunately, our time is up and we try to keep these
webinars to the time we promise. But thank you all very much for a very interesting discussion. And I am very conscious of the
many interesting questions, which will be informed by
and which we will reflect on. We are a bit more than
midway through a project that gives us the opportunity to reflect on w
hat we
know are complex issues of the ways in which the religious beliefs and the religious institutions
and the religious divisions, and polarizations that are
very prominent in Bangladesh. The way that they play
into the government's goals and the goals of its many partners. So the education issue
is critical clearly, because of the drama of
the COVID emergencies and the disruptions that it has caused, far beyond anything we
could have imagined, a year and a half ago when this began. But we've
been quite struck
by worldwide data and evidence on how this is causing new dimensions. The digital divide is much more prominent, but other violence against
women, the child marriage issue, that those have been
accentuated during this crisis. And I think it calls on us
to understand a bit better. We know the basics of what's happened, but also where we go looking forward. So to repeat the video of this event, will be shortly on the
Berkeley Center website, and CPJ I hope in Bangladesh. And we
will be looking at the questions and seeing what we can do
to address specific ones. But I want to emphasize that this is very much
a continuing discussion. And Samia has emphasis
on cooperation on the, I call it an all hands job,
whether it's COVID vaccination or making up for lost time in education, or dealing with some of
the violence and the unrest and the polarization that's
emerged during the crisis. These are all very much in our sights, and in our determination
as we look forward. So tha
nk you again,
Samia, Mokhlesur, Sarah, for very thought provoking
and thoughtful exchange, and look forward to continuing.
Comments