We are back at it at the men's ADHD support
podcast. Really excited today about today's subject. We've been talking a lot about relationships
in general lately, and It's, it's really interesting how whenever we look into our community and
see what the men with ADHD are discussing, we see a variety of issues with relationships,
whether it's someone who's just looking for dating advice and looking to get into one
or somebody who has been in a marriage and going through a divorce, friendships, we s
ee
a variety of things, but it turns out one of the things that people with ADHD struggle
with is domestic violence. Now with domestic violence, I can't speak on this super competently
with my own personal experience and knowledge. However, today I'm actually going to be picking
Shane's brain on this subject to hear what he has to say on what. People with ADHD can do here to navigate such
a thing. So to start off with Shane, what is domestic violence? Domestic violence is physical, mental, or
em
otional abuse within a relationship of people who are living together. It is most commonly
looked at as a male versus female thing, however, we do know that one in three women deal with
domestic violence, and abuse, but we also understand that one in four men deal with
domestic violence and abuse, mainly because, While women deal with physical abuse the most,
men deal with mental and emotional abuse the most. And that's often overlooked as a serious issue
within our society. Would you say that y
ou've seen it pretty commonly
as far as the men with ADHD that we work with? Like, it seems to be something that we, we
struggle with quite a bit. And I guess I'm wondering like, why is that? A number of reasons. We get into relationships.
And we ignore a lot of red flags, we hyper focus on the person, and we get super interested
in them, and we essentially do a non malicious form of love bombing, where because we've
masked so long in our lives, we try to match the things that that person is loo
king for,
and we find ourselves getting into these relationships with people, and that really love that initial
attention that we give them. And it feeds into a lot of different types
of personalities and types of different personality disorders, such as like narcissistic personality
disorder. And that causes us to really like I said earlier, ignore the red flags of those
types of partners, and we get into the relationship, and we're in the relationship for a while,
and then we stop giving them
the attention that they were needing from us. We also start relaxing, and a lot of our ADHD
tendencies seem to come to the fore, and we start forgetting to do certain things, and
a large amount of toxicity starts to build up between two people, when One person is
dealing with emotional dysregulation, especially with untreated, unmedicated ADHD. And the
other person, even if they do not have some sort of personality disorder, are just intolerant
of the the change that has happened in the relation
ship. And there's no communication happening explaining
why. All of a sudden you go from this super loving and attentive partner to... You apparently
can't figure out where your keys are that I hung up for you. And you just seem really
ignorant and, you know, essentially a child. And of course these, different relationship
dynamics there can be a lot of stress that builds up and there can be a lot of... Frustration that can build up, and that dynamic
really causes people to start lashing out at
each other. And again, when you go back
into emotional dysregulation, we can wind up having people really bouncing a lot of
negative energy off each other, and that often turns into emotional and mental abuse. And, in these cases, it may also be, like
both people abusing each other in a really toxic manner. It's interesting, especially the masking thing
that you mentioned. That's something that I feel that I, I relate to quite a bit. And
I know we talked about masking on the last episode that we
did and how common it is for
people with ADHD. But when we're, when we're in this space where we find ourselves in this
type of toxic relationship and experiencing these issues, like, what does getting out
of it look like? Where do we start? You look at the issues that a lot of people
with ADHD have, there's a lot of... Well, we already blame ourselves for so much, right?
We already lay all of the different mistakes that we've made. All of the different responsibilities
and all of that stuff on
ourselves, especially as men. And... You know, a lot of times gaslighting
is a big part of it as well, and we are kind of easy to gaslight because our memory functions
don't quite work as well as they should, right? because we may not have been paying attention
when the person asked us to do a certain thing, or When we are trying to do a certain thing
we get distracted by other things and we don't want to use ADHD as an excuse or anything
but at the same time we do want to assign the the the th
e responsibility to the issue
that we face And make sure that we are looking at it that way, and a lot of people don't
look at it that way. They simply see a person who is, in their
opinion, lazy, not listening, being irresponsible. And, sometimes in the case of abusers, they
will gaslight people because they know that they're not going to remember. And that they're
going to be able to be manipulated in such a way to make the person feel horrible. And it's just a litany of other issues that
peop
le with ADHD face that make it very difficult for us to be in relationships with people
who are abusive and know how to get out of that relationship because we don't want to
be alone. And the other side of that coin is what if we have children? We've compounded
the issue at this point. And, we want to have, we want to be in our
children's lives. We also know that our partner is probably going to try to rip us apart with
child support, or alimony, or both. And, we don't believe that men can be ab
used. That's
a common misconception that's out there. You know, the statistics that I mentioned earlier... One in three women being abused. One in four
men being abused. That's abuse in general, right? One in four women are physically abused.
One in seven men is physically abused. And, that's a really scary situation. And, if we
grew up in a really traumatic childhood with abusive parents, then we... I think that that's
how a relationship is supposed to be. And so generational trauma plays a lot
into
this factor as well. And everything is super overwhelming. All of this is overwhelming
and it shuts us down and we just do not know what to do. We actually may know what to do.
We know that we're supposed to leave this relationship, but we don't know how to leave
the relationship. We don't, we can't. Quantify how to take those
steps to move out of it and get into a happier place. Because we don't think we deserve it.
So now we're dealing with imposter syndrome. So it's like a perfect storm
of being trapped
in a relationship and not knowing how to get out of it. Yeah. It's, it's, it's crazy. I can kind of see
the ways that I relate to it and. One of the things that I've seen helpful for me, because
we talked about ignoring the red flags and and it being pretty difficult to see how we're
being gas lit and how it's easy to happen for people with ADHD and and I'm building
the radar as far as catching that stuff a little bit earlier. It's, it seems that it's something that's
possible
for us. I mean, it's something that I've think I've gotten it. A little bit better
at myself, but one of the things that I have found extremely helpful is having a safe space
to talk about relationships and things like that, like having support groups, having a
therapist. There have been times where I had been dating
somebody and throughout the relationship, I didn't even realize. What they were doing
to manipulate me and how they were treating me and everything like that, but it wasn't
until I
talked about it, talked about it with somebody who loves and cares for me and they
were like, bro, like. You need to step away from this type of person,
right? So it's, it's interesting how when, when we speak about things and we've seen
it within our own meetings where it is not until a member actually talks about it for
the first time that they actually realize like, Oh shit, like something's going on here. So I guess that's just the power of therapy
and, not navigating things on your own, lik
e we talked about in the last episode. Yeah, and here's the thing, like
one of the first steps that most abusers take, Is like isolating you from your friends and
your family, right? That's one of those first things, like, you know, I need you to stay
at home, you know, I need you to do these things here, Why do you keep going out with
your buddies all the time? Or, you know, you don't need to go to therapy.
Therapy is for pussies, right? That's one of those things that a lot of guys have talked
about, that their spouses tell them that they don't need to go to the doctor, they don't
need to go to therapy. That's a huge red flag. Like they take control over your life. They sit here, they sit here and they dictate
when and where you can go places, and this is super relevant to why they do that is because
if they they know that if somebody looks at what's happening from the outside perspective,
if this person has a support group that they can go to to ask these kind of questions,
that the
abuse will start becoming very apparent. And that they will lose control. There's a,
you know, a lot of abuse in things like rape and stuff like that. Isn't about the actual
act of rape. It is the control that they gain over the situation. And that's a fundamental
aspect of abuse is the control. It's Now, leaving, leaving these scenarios and
a lot of it's easier said than done, but I found in moments which I have been with
a partner who was not supportive of me and toxic for me, all these type
of things, when
I'm in the, the position where I'm make a decision, the decision of wanting to leave
my people pleasing tendencies kick in big time, it would tell me that I shouldn't do
this. Like I'm making a big deal out of something
that shouldn't. A big deal, even though it probably is all this type of things. And again,
to be direct here, this is a subject that it's it's new for me and and something that
I'm still learning in my, my own life. So I don't I don't want to mislead or make it
co
me across. Like, I've got this all together when I don't, but I have found it to be. Really helpful to have support systems in
place, like I mentioned earlier, but almost affirming myself that taking a step away from
somebody, even if it does hurt them, if I'm walking away from something that is hurting
me. That that is affirming myself that that is a good idea and I am, I am absolutely worthy
of a healthy and happy relationship. But the point I'm trying to make here really
is, is, is my, my sel
f talk and just me, me hyping myself up as I make a difficult decision
is something that is makes a night and day difference for me and actually getting things
done. I don't know if that makes sense. It does. And, you know, again, when we look
at the tendencies for people with who are abusers. Another thing that they do is they start piling
on top of that imposter syndrome. They steeped, they keep taking advantage of that people
pleasing aspect of it by Doing things where they keep putting you d
own constantly. And
we need to understand, and for a lot of people out there, I do need to have this caveat as
far as this is concerned. This isn't talking about singular instances
where every now and then y'all snap off at each other. This is referring to behavior
that is a purposeful pattern. Where a person has repeatedly done this over and over and
over again. Even if you've tried to communicate. That what they're doing is harmful, like even
if you do have the tools to recognize it and you te
ll the person like, hey, this is my,
this is my boundary, I don't deserve to be talked to this way, right, you're self affirming
your worth, you're, you're saying, like, I am a good person and I can't have you tearing
me down all the time, and then they continue to keep doing that to tear you down further
and further, right, they could even take control of the finances and use the finances over
you. Right. Or ridicule you for not being able
to make that much money. Or point out that if you weren
't in the relationship, then how
are you even going to live because you're a man child. And that tearing you down is
also part of the process. Because they can't have you actually being able to do that self
affirmation either. And so all of the entire process of an abuser
is to isolate you, tear you down. And then take control over you and your finances and
your life and limit what you can and can't do so that you're able to be at home and be
that mental or emotional or physical punching bag. Ye
ah, I completely, completely relatable.
So now, I mean, you're already kind of touched into this, but somebody who's listening and
is saying, like, wow, that is me. This dude is describing my whole life and I am literally
right in the spot right now. What are the, what are the 1st steps for, for this individual? Like, where should they go? So, the first thing that you need to be doing
is you need to be making sure that you're reaching out to a domestic violence hotline.
And there's a number of t
hem out there. If you just look up domestic violence, the very
first thing that you see is a phone number for it. But, the other side of that coin is
you really need to determine, like, what steps do you need to take. And if you're married, and you're in a legally
obligated relationship, It's complicated. You have to talk to a lawyer. You have to
get support from a lawyer and that's not always a viable option because of finances. Especially
if you have an abusive partner who is controlling the f
inances. The other side of that coin
is working your way into discussing and talking to a therapist about what's going on. Right? Your partner may sit here and say something
about you don't need therapy and things like that. Right? You still need therapy, and you
need to have an opportunity to have a discussion with somebody about what you're going through.
And if you can't have that, then you need to talk to your friends. This isn't something you should hide, but
as men we tend to do that becau
se it's very shameful to admit that our partner is abusing
us, whether we're gay or bisexual or pan or straight. It's shameful to talk about that
my partner is abusing me. And we often laugh it off or joke about it or any other trauma
response that we'll put out there. The other side of that coin is if you're married
and you have kids, then you absolutely must have a lawyer. And you have to defend yourself
through the legal system to make sure that they're not able to use the kids against you.
A
nd I need to be very clear on this, because a lot of men are out there going, divorce
is traumatic for children. Yes, it is. It is traumatic for children.
That being said, living in a broken home with one or both of their parents abusing each
other is much more traumatic. And there's significantly longer lasting damage that can
be done to a child's psyche living in that kind of household rather than a single parent
or a temporarily single parent household who's dealing with divorce. And so that'
s really important to understand
that. Yeah, My mother and father were, were divorced and
as a kid, I mean, that was like the worst thing ever. No doubt about it. I mean, I hated
every second of it, but, but now like looking, looking back at it, I couldn't even imagine.
Like what it would have been like with my mother and father having stayed together and
the trauma that that would have caused me. And I think, I think a part of the point that
Shane is making is and something that we always encou
rage is that making a decision that is
good for you, even if it's tough in the short term, is a decision that's also good for everyone
around you. The way that I see it, it's kind of like if you're making the decision to stay
in an unstable relationship or toxic relationship and you're a father of a kid and I don't see,
I don't see it being really easy to be the best, the best dad you can be. In that case, and again, none of us are perfect
here and we all we all have our own struggles, but we ha
ve to consider ourselves here and
our whole life of just being putting other people 1st we just have to do the work that
involves putting that that persona and ideology down and and as hard as fuck. I mean, difficult
conversations, I hate every second of it. But. We can do hard things. Absolutely. And look, there's, there's a couple
of different ways that this is going to start going down certain paths, right? There's only
so much as a person you're going to be able to take a certain behaviors b
efore you either
break and become completely submissive. Or, you're going to start lashing out, and you
are going to become the abuser. And when it comes to things like emotional
dysregulation, and other aspects of our ADHD, when it comes to that and our mental health,
the problem comes into play when we do become abusive, and we lash out, and it's in retaliation,
now that person can then use it against us. And they do. Very often. If you leave me,
I will take all of these pictures that I've tak
en of when you abused me to the police. I'll use all of these text messages that you
sent me irate about something and where you were verbally abusing me to the divorce case.
Here's the thing. If you're being abusive, your ADHD isn't an excuse for that. Like,
you're being abusive. I did this. I, I am 100 percent owning that at one time in my,
in my former marriage, because I was constantly being abused by her, that eventually my emotional
dysregulation got the better of me and I would respond in
kind. And that's where that toxicity building up
constantly really hurts us because we will then start retaliating. And Now, I wasn't
a physically abusive person because that was like the bar I had set. I wouldn't have physically
abused anyone around me because of what my dad did to me and my mom. But at the same
time, I was not emotionally intelligent enough to be able to understand that emotional abuse
and mental abuse can be just as deadly. And... That buildup of frustration, that buildup
of
stress, that buildup of anger, that buildup of rage often comes out in these very explosive
manners of response, where we lose control and we have an emotional dysregulation moment
where we lash out at everybody around us, which could also include our kids. If they're the trigger point, if they're the
thing that sets us off because they're being kids and we're so frustrated at our overall
situation that they do something and we lash out at them. This is why it's so important
to understand those
red flags and recognize them for what they are. So that you are addressing
the situation before you even get into that circumstance. Because... We often don't want to be that
kind of person because we grew up in that kind of environment. But, because we don't
recognize those red flags, we find ourselves in those situations, and we often can become
the abuser to our abuser. And because we have often been taught that physical violence is
okay, a lot of times that abuse turns into physical retalia
tion. It's just the bottom line of it, like, and
the longer you stay in these relationships, the more likely you are to start retaliating
against the abuser. It's just a natural tendency. And that's the danger of domestic violence
when it comes to living with mental health issues and like things like ADHD and or autism
that's being untreated or unmedicated. On this on this subject that based off everything
you described. Again, I, I relate a lot and it's just something that sounds something
I fe
el super comfortable speaking on from an expert side of things yet. I'm just wondering if you have any final words
that you'd like to share with our audience who's learning about the subject and, and
wants to take the next steps. Don't be ashamed if you're being abused. Like,
I know it's easier said than done, but talk to somebody if you think that you're being
abused. Get somebody's objective feedback. Listen
to your friends when they point out red flags in a relationship that you may not be ab
le
to recognize due to how you're feeling about the person. Remember, we feel things more.
That means love and happiness and joy and companionship. We feel all that more. So we
are often not going to be objective enough. Especially with our self awareness issues
and, and social issues that we have to be able to recognize those things. And so if
somebody points out certain behaviors that your partner is really exhibiting, then you
need to do your best to take a step back, look at it, and not comm
it to a long term
relationship with this person until you start seeing them honor your boundaries. If you don't know what your boundaries are,
then you need to be sitting down with a therapist and really working through and defining what
those are. If you're already in a relationship and what you're hearing is really resonating
with you, especially if you're a man, go to our Men's ADHD Support Group and open up a
discussion about it and ask questions and get feedback. And be as objective in the
conversation as
you can. You know, the whole purpose of us having the Men's ADHD Support Group is to
provide a safe place for men, whether you're gay, bi, straight, pan, doesn't matter, to
have that space to ask those questions and get honest and caring and empathetic answers.
And that's what we're here for. And if you're finding yourself isolated, if
you're finding yourself not able to make a lot of friends, or
your partner's trying to control your friendships, or your partner's trying to cont
rol aspects
of your life that you honestly need, such as like therapy, medical care, things of that
nature, you need to be really, really, really evaluating that and moving away from it as
soon as possible. If you're married, that means talk to a lawyer.
If you're, you know, single or if you're, you're not married or anything like that,
it means just walk away from the relationship. If it's going to heal, it will. But if it's
not, then you're going to do yourself a favor. Don't stay in relations
hips where you're being
abused. It's a waste of your time. And, you deserve
happiness, you deserve love, and you deserve respect. But you have to start by giving yourself
those things. my only two cents to add as to what Shane
said is that we are, we are really capable of, we are really capable of living a life
in which we respect ourselves and we achieve fulfillment. Not all the time happiness because our ADHD will get
the best of us and. Shit happens in our lives, but we can, we can live a lif
e of self respect
and doing things like walking away, seeing red flags are all difficult, but we can do hard things. And
the only way to make it a little bit easier or more possible is
if we get the support systems that we need in place. And I really, really appreciate you, Shane
sharing this with us. Alrighty. Take care.
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