As pianists, we often find ourselves getting obsessed over the tiniest details. In this video, Robert Fleitz explores one of his recent obsessions -- three notes in the third movement of Beethoven's Sonata Op. 110 -- by listening to 51 different recordings by some of the greatest pianists of all time, including Richter, Cortot, Uchida, de Larrocha, 조성진 (Seong-Jin Cho), Evgeny Kissin, Seymour Bernstein, and of course, Glenn Gould.
0:00 The Mystery of Three Notes
2:42 Recording Investigation
3:40 Triplets, Eighth Notes, and beyond
6:19 Individual Expression and Strategies
8:43 Staying Imaginative when Practicing
The full list of pianists whose recordings were considered:
Alexei Lubimov 2009
Alfred Cortot 1950
Emil Gilels 1985
Angela Hewitt 2015
Antti Siirala 2012
Evgeny Kissin 2022
Heinrich Neuhaus 1947
Maurizio Pollini 1977
Mitsuko Uchida 2006
Sviatoslav Richter 1951
Sviatoslav Richter 1965
Sviatoslav Richter 1991
Louis Lortie 2010
Seong-Jin Cho 2011
Yukino Fujiwara 1988
Glenn Gould 1963
Daniel Hsu 2017
Abdel Rahman El Bacha 2013
Han Chen 2023
Igor Levit 2019
Jonathan Biss 2019
Paul Lewis 2008
Robert Fleitz 2022
Alfred Brendel 1995
Alicia De Larrocha 1982
Andras Schiff 2011
Anne Queffelec 2020
Annie Fischer 1977
Artur Schnabel 1932
Vladimir Ashkenazy 1972
Barbara Nissman 2017
Boris Giltburg 2021
Daniel Barenboim 1984
David Fung 2020
Fou Tsong 1962
Georgijs Osokins 2019
Helene Grimaud 2001
John O’Conor 1994
Kate Liu 2019
Mari Kodama 2013
Maria Joao Pires 1975
Mateusz Borowiak 2020
Myra Hess 1953
Nelson Freire 2006
Penelope Crawford 2011
Pletnev 2019
Richard Goode 1993
Seymour Bernstein 1974
Stephen Kovacevich 1993
Wilhelm Kempff 1936
Arkadij Volodos 2005
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The last three piano sonatas of Beethoven, written
just a few years before his death, are full of profound moments
that one could obsess about for lifetimes. Gosh, I mean, there's everything in them. I think there is moments that that he looks back to
when when life could have been good. I learned Opus 110, his penultimate sonata
a few years ago. I basically just intuitively followed
the score the best that I could. I took advice from lessons
and master classes and put it all together to come up
with my interpretation at the time. But since then
I have become increasingly fixated on the three
ambiguous notes in the third movement. I'm convinced that
inside of these three notes, we can learn so much about how pianists approach
this piece as a whole. So in order to crack the code
of these mysterious three notes, I did
what any proper investigator would do. I decided to compare 51
different recordings using a little chart. It turns out that listening to so many recordings ended up
reveali
ng more questions than answers. But before we keep going, I want to give you a quick reminder
just to click that little subscribe button and to be sure to like
and share this video. So back to those three notes in the edition that I use,
which is the Henle Urtext addition. Those three notes appear at the end of bar
five in the third movement. The way they're printed,
it makes it look like they're 3 eighth notes, just like the 4 eighth notes preceding them,
which theoretically means that they sho
uld be played with the same kind of rhythmic feel,
more or less to those four notes. However,
many pianists play it as a triplet, probably because of the two slurs,
the staccato marking, and of course, the cantabile which asks
for a kind of recitativo freedom. Not to mention the fact
that several other editions, including the Schenker Edition, do have it
marked as a triplet. Usually when we encounter
an ambiguous moment in a piece of music, it's a good idea to go back
to some of the original man
uscripts or original documents
to see if what the composer wrote is lining up
with what modern publications are showing. But with Opus 110, that's a little bit of a problem
because there were at least seven different notable sources that add up
to what we have today of the piece, and they span a long period of time
from 1821 to 1822. Not only is this quite significantly more sources
than most of Beethoven's other pieces, but he also edited and changed the piece
quite a lot during that process. I
n spite of all of that, though,
there's not really that much scholarly literature that is referring
to these three notes in particular. So since I couldn't find answers there,
I decided to turn to the great catalog of recordings of this piece to see what
I could find to conduct my research. I collected 51 different recordings
from 49 pianists from all over the world, all different kinds of playing styles
from live studio and competition recordings from 1932 to the present day,
with even a few on
Fortepiano. I also went back and listened
to the old recording of myself playing this from a few years ago to see what I did before
this became a personal obsession of mine. By the way,
if you or someone you love is as obsessed with the tiny details of piano playing
as I am or is curious about becoming so I highly recommend checking out Tonebase Premium where you can find content on Beethoven, Chopin,
and many other composers. With lessons from Norman Krieger,
John O'Conor, Seymour Bernstein, a
nd tons more giving you their insights on
some of the most interesting and most illuminating
topics of piano playing. Be sure to check out the link
in the description below or right up here for more information. So now I would like to share with you the
results of my highly scientific research. Basically, I determined that most pianists
play this piece either in clear triplets, clear eighth notes, or with a rubato
that puts them somewhere in the middle. There were also a few examples that I list
ened to that I would say exist
completely outside of this spectrum. Playing three notes as a triplet
was by far the most popular option, with a wide range of pianists using it. I'm going to also include Volodos in this category,
both like a little asterisk because he plays it
not as a triplet of eighth notes, but rather twice as fast
as a triplet of 16th notes. A smaller but quite *star-studded* group of pianists plays
these three notes as strict eighth notes. This includes piano such as Neuhaus
,
Pollini, Richter and Uchida. Next there are the pianists who play it
somewhere in the middle. In general, these pianists are playing
it kind of like eighth notes, but with a little bit of an accelerando. to the downbeat. I also, when I was listening to my old recording, played it
this way as well. Finally, there was a group of pianists
who played these somewhere completely out in a different universe, for example,
Cortot plays it quite quickly but lingers on the second of the three
last notes
and Lubimov playing on the fortepiano does something
really interesting with rubato that's quite hard to describe. You should just listen to it. While I was going through the research. I kept track of the date and the country
of origin of all of the pianists just to see if there was any unifying factor that led certain people
to play it one way or the other. And ultimately, there really wasn't
anything of statistical significance to share on that. Basically, it really just came down
to the indiv
idual pianist and how they approached the piece
as a whole. The triplet method creates this kind of
singing momentum to the downbeat, while the eighth note
method really leans into the cantabile. Something I really appreciate
about the rubato method is that it creates an interesting parallel
between those last three notes and the similar motif
figure in the next measure. Inevitably, then, this listening project
spiraled out of control and became quite a lot
about how the pianists play. The rest
of this measure leading up
to these three notes, how they played out, repeating a figure
that is so full of emotion, some like Kissin
and made it a very dramatic statement, whereas for others it was more internal, more personal, more intimate. One quick side note that I found really interesting
is that one of my favorite pianists, Maria João Pires, plays
these in a way that no other pianist I listened to does and in a way
that I could not find in any literature or any other edition,
where instea
d of playing repeated A's, she actually alternates between a
and the octave above. And then, of course, I started thinking about how pianists
are playing the rest of this piece, what kind of tone color
they give to the opening chorale, how fast exactly they play the scherzo, and what kind of character
they bring into the fugue. I once read that Menahem Pressler in a master
class, was recalling something that his teacher
had said about the Opus 110 Sonata. He said that this sonata really represen
ts
Beethoven, the man in every respect
in all parts of his life. It's no wonder so many pianists have
recorded and wanted to record this piece. It provides so much space
for personal, expressive freedom. So you're probably asking yourself,
what is the point of all of this? Well, listening to all these pianists
playing really reminded me how important it is to push yourself
outside of your comfort zone when you're practicing and to experiment
with things that are a little bit beyond your intuitio
n. Knowing that so many pianists
throughout history have looked at the exact same notes
on the same paper and decided to play it and so many subtly different ways
made me really feel like there was such a wide spectrum of possibilities
that I wasn't even considering. Just because I was so caught up
in what I was doing myself. It's also really humanizing to imagine
Beethoven actually struggling himself to finish this piece, to get every detail
just right. How do you turn on your own imagination?
How to make change? It's all about being able to do things more than one way. Music is just food for the soul. Thank you all so much for following me
down the rabbit hole with my personal obsession
with this passage. I am really curious which of these
recordings is your favorite? How do you think it should be played
and what little tiny detail of piano repertoire
are you obsessing about lately? Go ahead and sound off in the comments and
let me know what you're thinking about. Also, just a quick
reminder
to like and subscribe. And also to check out Tonebase Premium,
where you can explore the entire library of super informative content on Beethoven
and many other lovely topics of piano. I'm Robert Fleitz from Tonebase,
and I want to thank you all for joining me today. See you next time.
Comments
Ben Laude cameo @ 3:21 lol. (It's hard not to miss him--he's like the Jesse Enkamp of piano, with something magical about his personality--but regardless, I enjoyed this video.) 3:58 Is that Alfred Cortot peeking out? LOL. [Edit: Watched the rest. Yup, Cortot.]
I love this stuff 👏 sometimes I obsess over similar things!
As a listener, I love obsessing over tiny details in the piano litterature. It's always nice to compare, to analyse, to ponder the mysteries of that big universe. Yet sometimes I wonder whether the great (traveling, touring, famous) international concert pianists even have time for this kind of thing. 🙃 By the way I'm reading Leif Ove's book "At work" at the moment. A fascinating, concise and super-pragmatic perspective on pianism.
I'm not sure if this kind of obsession is healthy.
8:20 I don't hear that "octave" above. I just hear very subtle repetition from within the key. That's what I call a "saline" character in a piano ("zilt" in Dutch), which has that "silvery" quality on certain repetitions especially with some very specific damper distances. That said, I'd also call Volodos triplet a regular 8th note triplet. It's clearly nowhere near twice as fast, it's just marginally more more flowing in time.
I obsess over these notes as well when I play this piece. I have obsessed more however, over measure 12.
You really are an investigator! 🥸 congrats! 😊
Great vid. Unless you have a recording of the composer, you are left with tradition as defined by scholarship and the period in which it was written. All of the examples you gave make sense depending on how they interpreted the rest of the piece. In the end you decide how to play it. It’s interesting to compare how you used to play it in 2021 and now. Disclosure: I’m an organist but approach rep for my instrument the same way you did. You did a good job!
So, with Ben Laude gone, will there be more exclusive masterclass, interviews etc. videos coming up with renowned pianists on tonebase (premium) in the future?
Do you think Cortot lingered on the 2nd of 3 notes because of that double slur???
I think Beethoven wnats us to play those notes however we want
Arrau said the top repeated As were drawing on an effect you could produce called bebung in german, (if i remember). Its like a vibrato and probably made more sense on a forte piano.
Trying to understand metronome markings and juxtaposing them against the tempo indications, performance practice, and my own feelings about the appropriate tempo for any given piece.
"the last 3 piano sonatas of beethoven, written just a few years before his death are full of profound that one could obsessive about for lifetimes" screw no 28 and 29 I guess 💀💀💀💀
Thank you for this very interesting and thought-provoking discussion. I went back to my recording in 2021 to listen for what I did. I played it as a triplet figure, but I enjoyed hearing the variety of other ways to play it. I don't think Pires is playing the A an octave above. I think we are hearing some harmonics in the way she is playing it. The autographed manuscript of Op. 110 displays December 25, 1821 as it's date of publication. I like to think of Op. 110 as Beethoven's Christmas gift to the world. I was surprised that no one else felt a need to perform it on Christmas day, 2021 as a celebration of it's 200th birthday. In my video notes, I outlined some reasons why it's worth thinking of Op. 110 as the "Christmas" Sonata: https://youtu.be/yvoPqOk7S0s?si=vaXBZbt1VUTx7SvM
I dont understand?? Where is ben ???? I love this guy as well but where is he ?
That juicy historical tuning is horrible. Oh my God.
Why are these three notes so important to you? Did I miss an explanation? at 06:20 I began wondering WHY do you research the way these three notes are played? Your introduction that the sonata is a weighty statement from Beethoven, and that these three notes are essential, and then making sure we know that Beethoven worked on it for a year, and that there are more sources, that altogether is interesting. But why just focus on these three notes? Beethoven was a gifted improvisator, and would never have played a phrase exactly the same way. Music notation is of course an approximation. Nevertheless - interesting.
My opinion is a pianist has to make each composition their own. A pianist like you is too tied to the score. You need to play it the way you think it sounds best. Use your own ear. Whatever you do, it has to sound convincing.
I gotta say... this new guy is terrible and his 2 videos so far have been uninteresting and dull.