It's The Real News, I'm Aaron Maté, continuing
with Rebecca Vilkomerson. She is executive director of Jewish Voice
for Peace. When it comes to coalitions, I want to ask
you about coalitions with what are called "liberal Zionists." I personally don't like using the term "Zionist,"
because to me, it has many meanings. Zionist, to me even includes people who don't
support the idea of a Jewish state but who, like Noam Chomsky back when he was young,
favored the idea of some sort of Jewish national h
ome that that honored Jewish culture, especially
in the aftermath of the Holocaust, but not at the expense of oppressing anybody, and
certainly not in a way that privileges one religious group over another. So, very different than Zionism as we currently
know it, but for lack of a better term, "liberal Zionists." I'm wondering about both the possibilities
of building coalitions with them, but also the dangers. And to personalize what I'm talking about,
I'm talking about some like Peter Beinart,
very influential Jewish American writer, writes
for The Atlantic, writes for The Forward, strongly anti-occupation, supports boycotts
of occupation, of goods ban in the settlements. So, there's something laudable there, but
he doesn't support BDS overall. And I still think- my own opinion of people
like him is that they're still a bit blinded by their attachment to Israel to fully see
just how bad it is, and to fully get how even their own views are still colored by the sense
of their attachment
to having a Jewish state where Jews do have higher rights than other
people. And so, under that framework and things like
the blockade of Gaza- for someone like Beinart, he'll criticize the blockade of Gaza, but
he'll say that in some ways, Israel does have legitimate reasons to block some things from
entering Gaza. Which on its face, to me is ridiculous because
what right does Israel have to block anything from going into Gaza? Gaza is not theirs. It's occupied territory. So, I guess I'm wonde
ring, can alliances be
built with people who are still internalizing Jewish supremacy in some ways? I mean, I think one of our most important
organizing principles is people's capacity to change. And I think that's important for all organizing,
is that you have to approach people with the understanding that everyone's changing, we're
changing, politics have evolved over time, our individual politics have evolved over
time, and we want to be open to being able to be engaged in that process of cha
nge. And I think on that level, I have to say,
I have a lot of admiration for Peter Beinart. I think he's honestly grappling with the privilege
that he's grown up with. I think he's publicly engaging in the process
that he's going through. And I definitely feel frustrated sometimes. Sometimes it's two steps forward, one step
back. But I do think the overall processes is forward. And so, I think I want to be in conversation
with people like him. I think it's really important. I think there's a bi
g difference between individuals
and organizations, and actually it's not a big issue that we have to worry about. And I would say unfortunately, because the
Jewish Committee has put up so many red lines- and they're the ones who won't work with us. You know what I mean? So, we actually don't even have to deal with
that, because Hillel and Jewish Federations- there was just a case in Chicago where they're
saying that, for I think the local Jewish Film Festival, you basically have to say that
you
don't support BDS. And so, what they're doing is cutting off
a big portion of the Jewish community, the very ones who they say they want to, you know,
bring more into the Jewish community. They want to create these red lines and they
won't work with us. And so, we don't have to make that choice. They're already making that choice, and I
think it's a real shame. And I think- I have a lot of conversations
with people inside the Jewish community, and say like, "Look, you should be thanking us,
JVP
is bringing people back into Jewish community- if you're worried about Jewish continuity,
which the Jewish institutions say they are, we're doing more for Jewish continuity and
engagement with 'Israel,' in quotes, than a lot of other organizations are doing." That being said, I also think it's really
important JVP doesn't have a position right now on Zionism, although that's an internal
conversation we're having right now. But I think it's extremely important- a lot
of JVP members identify as a
nti-Zionist or non-Zionist. I would say the vast majority would put themselves
in one of those two categories. And I think it's really important to affirm
anti-Zionism in particular, which is so attacked all the time, and often is coupled with, or
seen as something that's an equivalent to anti-Semitism. And ever since there's been Zionism, there's
also been anti-Zionism inside the Jewish community. And we really want to- I want to reclaim that
history and say that you can have that conversation
about whether you believe in it or not, but
it is an internal conversation. And there are Jewish people who are anti-Zionist
and are just as Jewish and have just as much legitimacy as anybody else does. And I think that's where we want to be having
a really public conversation inside the Jewish community, about what are those red lines
about politics as opposed to about identity? Yeah. So finally, where does the movement go from
here? After the massacre in Gaza, people are feeling
despondent. Pe
ople are feeling a lot of grief. Where does the movement go now, in terms of
confronting Israel and putting a stop to atrocities like we just witnessed? Well, I think what's happened in the last
week, in the last six weeks throughout the time of The Great Return March, there's been
some really incredible demonstrations in the streets. JVP as one example, we've had sixty different
demonstrations that we've organized or participated in around the country, just during the six-week
period. So, it's
been a very elevated time of action,
and very public action. I think the thing that we need to start thinking
about now, because especially in the Trump era, the world moves on very quickly from
one thing to the next. And I think those public demonstrations are
important, but so are very long-term campaigns towards policy change. So, I think the Boycott National Committee,
which is the governing body of the Boycott Divestment Sanctions movement, has talked
very much about how important it is to
be talking about military embargo in the wake
of this, in the wake of what happened in Gaza in this past number of weeks. And we actually have a mechanism in the United
States, which is the Leahy Law, which says that- I'm trying not to laugh, because it's
ridiculous that people talk about the U.S. military in general- but there is a clause
that says you can't use U.S. military aid for human rights abuses. And so, we want to try to invoke that law
as a way to challenge, and as a form of sanction
against the U.S. military. There's also pending legislation, No Way to
Treat a Child, which says the United States should not be funding having Palestinian children
in jail, which is a known phenomenon. That bill, actually introduced by Representative
Betty McCollum, now has I think 24 cosponsors. So that's more than any other proactive legislation
that has ever come up in Congress. And so, there are some vehicles for doing
that. There's campaigns like the Deadly Exchange
campaign to end the pol
ice exchanges between the U.S. and Israel. But I think the main point is that what we
want to do is start seeding and encouraging these long-term campaigns, ones also that
are local. You can look in your own community, is your
police chief going on a police exchange, is your city investing in Israeli companies? There are all different kinds of campaigns
you can do that are very specific and relevant to your local community. But it's going to take more than those on
the street demonstrations, whi
ch are sort of "in the moment" urgency, to really use
them as tools for education to people and lead them to take action, and also bring more
people into the movement. All right, we'll wrap there. My guest has been Rebecca Vilkomerson. She is the executive director of Jewish Voice
for Peace. Rebecca, thank you. Thanks so much for having me. And thank you for joining us on The Real News.
Comments
Aaron Mate is one of the best journalists in the world right now.
Great discussion.♥️🇮🇪🍀🇵🇸🕊Thank you.
The most informative and fully expressive of the variety of stances held by many groups and leaders.
Thanks for your great work JVP, Real News, and all involved in Peace for Humanity! Much Love!
We need more discussions like this.
Aaron Mate is clearly one of the most authentic, and brilliant voices in modern journalism! it is delightful to hear him negotiating and navigating through the BS of cable news and other phony internet sites like the young turks to produce truth or as close a version of truth as modern journalistic structures allow. Well-done! Mate and Jay make watching you tube worthwhile; I hope Aaron works out of Baltimore(my native city and home) just as Mr. Jay does
How come nobody ever calls for a bds movement against Israel’s enabler, the u.s??
Slow down Rebecca!
'A big portion of the Jewish community' lol
They should call themselves 'Jewish Voices for the Final Solution'
This woman is delusional.