Is The Migrant Crisis a Crisis for Agriculture or a Net Benefit?

[Music] is the migrant crisis a crisis for agriculture or actually a net benefit that's what we're talking about in this episode of The Business of Agriculture hey Damen Mason here with a question before we hop into this episode of The Business of Agriculture if you farm for a living you employ a lot of amazing technology from your inputs that you put into the soil to the tractor that you sit in your combine and the amazing data that it Harvest but has your soil analytics kept up technologically

with everything else in your farming operation i' would venture to say that no it is not sure you check for your nitrogen your phosphorus or potassium your micronutrients as well but what about disease pressure do you know what diseases and what pests you're going to face next year no you don't but you can now figure that out with pattern eggs Predictive Analytics think about it they can tell you now with testing what the likelihood of facing nasty diseases things like Cy nematode or uh sudden

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I really was reluctant to bring anybody on because frankly a lot of people wince when we bring up this topic some people don't like to cover it because in agriculture we have this unique situation in that generally the people that work in our industry are conservative and would be probably build the wall types but if you look at who's doing the work in agriculture and this country largely the physical labor is foreign born many of them are here illegal so it puts us in this quandry so I want to

toss this out there as a topic for you to contemplate I am not going to take a hard political stance on any of this but I'm going to share with you thoughts perspective and some data points this came up dear listener because just this week in the Wall Street Journal there's a cover story rich countries depend more on migrant labor now now on the service you're like well that seems like a pretty reasonable headline in fact seems like pretty much everybody knows that why is that a headline well t

hey went a little further on the whole topic and they in fact LED off uh on paragraph number two talking about a guy named John Rosenau I don't know John he's a Wisconsin dairyman and he has 13 immigrant laborers uh working on his dairy farm as you might remember I'm pretty close to the dairy industry was raised in the dairy industry and I was the Immigrant labor but I was actually not from this from country this is not something new we have been importing labor for agriculture for a very long l

ong time and I'm not in any way in fact I'm quite respectful about it because I know these people I work with these people I've seen what they do and I'm from those people I'm actually second generation American some of you may not know that my grandfather came to this country on a boat from England not from a Latin American country but from England and milked cows we did not come from any sort of money by any means we were we were very poor uh poor stock my grandfather mil cows in Min not North

Dakota as a teenager he migrated to Ohio miled cows when my father was born in Troy Ohio uh and then during the Great Depression landed in Northeast Indiana uh and mil cows for a rubber industrialist who had a registered gry Dairy herd and it was a show herd so they needed a herdsman my dad was raised as a as a herdsman son so I'm second generation American so I understand this and my stock came here to milk cows for people as hired agricultural hands this has been going on for a long long time

uh you know it's it's nothing new we've imported labor we imported labor into the United States of America beginning with uh my God the development of our country and I'm not talking about slavery I'm talking about the Chinese or the Irish the Chinese to build the the railroads as well as the Irish and then the ditch digging that happened um and the Italians for for all of these things they' always been a class of immigrants that came here so this is going on now the thing is it it's more out o

f control it would appear now I don't want to get into the politics of this but it definitely appears that we are in an almost out of control scenario with our border being completely unchecked and almost no real legal immigration going on as a comparative percentage but is this good for agriculture that's how I led this whole discussion off and I'm going to stick with that topic a few years ago I shocked some of my audiences because I put out there a contemplation I said imagine and this is whe

n Trump was in office still you know build the wall and all that and I said I just want you to contemplate this what if agriculture what if rich countries what if United States Canada Australia Europe well-developed mature economies if you will what if we eventually are competing for immigrants rather than talking about building walls what if we're competing for immigrants and I posed that question four years ago five years ago three years ago and it's gotten a lot of it's got a lot of blowback

But Here we are now it's 2024 q1 of 2024 we've got what appears to be some real messy uh issues with the illegal immigration coming into our country we're not sure where they're from it seems like we're flying them in here that announcement just came out here the other day and and and the taxpayers are very very distraught about that but let's talk about what it means for our industry according to this article 80% of production AG workers in the United States are foreign born and I don't think t

hat number has changed much when I wrote the book food fear when I wrote this book about the business past present future of Agriculture I pulled 2017 numbers and it was more than 3/4s more than 34 of late laborers Farm laborers that were foreign born most of which were not documented we can not just stay on the farm we can go to the processing because let's face it fairly unskilled foreign born workers that are in the United States of America and I don't know about Canada but I think there's so

me similarity it's just that they have way less uh undocumented because their immigration system is very much a part of their country's economic growth model we have it as our economic growth model but it's unstated it's un refined it's unle but it seems like it's sort of de facto it's maybe not to the policy but it ends up being the policy in fact and that's what de facto means in case you were wondering so anyway um this has been this way for a long long time and you know you talk about meat c

utting meat processing we talk about who's doing and whether it's frankly whether it's documented or not I'm not going to get into that part of it just talking about migration net numbers of people coming to the United States it's kind of been one of our strengths you know uh we can joke about uh the ditch diggers and all that thing and you can watch some of the old movies where they refer to these people in a very racially unfriendly tones um because that was the the nature of the the culture b

ack then uh whoever came here was at the bottom and and was made sure that they understood that but it's been part of our American growth story why we still have about 22 to 23% of the global GDP 4% of the world's population growing a little bit with the migration so four to 4.2 4.5 % of the global population is here in the United States but 22 or 23% of the global economy think about that almost 1/4 of the country of the world's economy still happens here so it's kind of predicated on our on ou

r shall we say historical immigration come here make a new life Etc not sure that's exactly happening I there's some real concern about that when you bring immigrants in and then all of a sudden give them debit cards uh and and healthc care and free and free phones are are they actually going to be as motivated to go and work that's going to be one of the concerns I think that is a concern of everybody that's even the ones in agriculture that' say okay you know these people are come in here but

for God's sakes let's not bring them here and put them on the welfare system so let's go back here and look about where these people go historically agriculture's always imported labor not always but certainly in the last 100 years going back to again my grandfather 120 years ago let's talk about then um where else the foreign born workers that are lower skilled might end up it tends to be Food Service which is still agriculture completely production Agriculture and then the Trad or the the lowe

r-end trades Landscaping uh Roofing drywalling um construction right that's where you pretty much we talking about and then of course you can talk about uh things like cleaning services Etc you know working in hotels and things like this um that's not likely to change and also we do need those employees it's pretty obvious that um your your uh your suburban class that uh is third generation white collar kids they're probably not going to do any of the jobs a forementioned jobs they're just not g

oing to do that Mike Row has made an entire career out of talking about this about dirty jobs in the uh in the trades and how we are completely underst staffed there it's still a problem and it's going to remain a problem and we can also say that it's pretty obvious the the kid that's um third generation from uh an affluent white suburb uh is going to go to college and attain a a degree that might be completely useless but uh either way they're not probably likely to pick up a trade or a pitchfo

rk or start picking uh produce on uh on a Florida on a Florida um produce farm so anyway where does this leave us is this is this good for us so I just kind of want to throw out a couple of things here and and this is a topic that I want you I I would like your feedback on it also because everybody has a little different perspective you talk to somebody that's in Florida California Texas here in Arizona where there's always been more immigrant labor and there's also a lot of specialty crops that

kind of thing it's something that's been going on for a long long time and then you talk about okay let's talk about like livestock because that's where we have a lot of hands uh hog production dairy uh and then uh in particular and then poultry where you have a lot of hands a lot of Need For Hands mostly foreign born workers are in those facilities so it's been going on for a long time this article then questions is it a problem when an industry becomes reliant on that and that's I said is the

migrant crisis actually a net benefit for agriculture because it brings us more potential workers or is it a problem I'm going to bring up about three different ways I think it could be a problem three different ways I think it could be a problem but I want you to again weigh in on this before I do that I want to talk to you about tra I just uh was with tra in commod commodity classic in their Booth shot uh podcasts with uh extreme mag talk to them about new programs that you can get paid for f

or maybe doing practices you're already doing the point is trara is helping you bring your economic and your environmental and your agronomic interest all together maybe it's reduction of tillage then it's also putting on some cover crops if you're doing those things or considering doing those things good for your bottom line good for your asset maybe less trips across the field uh less diesel expended some things like that it's good for bottom line in a year like this when we're going to strugg

le a little bit on some of the net farm income why not look at a new Revenue Source true ter can help you with that and sign up acres and get paid for sustain ability programs go to tra a.com tra T Ru t r r a tra a.com it's aando leg company go check it out okay what might be the problem well first off when you have a country that is frankly for more than two to three decades accepting of and growing the illegal immigration it means then that we really don't have borders it means that we don't r

eally have the rule of law you you know this is not jaywalking this is not the stuff that we all sort of have learned to overlook it's coming to a country where you don't follow any of the due process any of the legislation any of the immigration rules that Ellis Island and that generation was famed for so what we're talking about is and it's not like just a few that are slipping through the cracks we're talking about Millions per year so why is why am I saying is this a problem well it's a prob

lem if you live in a country that seems to have massive amount of foreign Nationals that you don't have any idea who they are where they're from coming to your country and we've heard already the reports about crime and now there's a big political debate the left is saying oh this is all overblown there's really no criminal problem and then the right is saying yeah what about this poor girl in George that went for a jog and got murdered by an illegal immigrant that's a a career criminal problem

number one is the criminality and I'm not talking about the people that are coming and working on our farms and and putting milkers on cows I'm talking about that with 3 million people coming across the border or five or 10 whatever the number should be there's to be a lot of bad uh bad apples okay number two does it make us and this is an economic thing that was the first one was a little bit political the second one what about the economic part of it and there one of the gists of this article

it says well the thing is when your industry just gets to where it's foundation on and reliant on foreign born lower skilled workers to come to your country then that industry never is forced to automate they talk about declines in productivity and I question this I quibble but but it also didn't talk about American as much it talked about examples in Australia and England I believe it was where automation didn't get put into place and we didn't innovate as much as we should have because the ind

ustry said why would I do that when I can just continue to bring in these workers uh from another country to do the work why would I need to continue to you know buy and invest in new innovation automation um that's one of the drawbacks they're saying now here's the thing I quibble a little bit with that argument as much as I say this could be a net negative I I see it because I I've read that it's a net negative but I question it and I wonder if you'll question it also is it really a net negati

ve when you figure our productivity is still amazing we're doing more calories of food produced per natural resource consumed than we ever have wages are actually appreciating and that has nothing to do with us that's because of the inflationary pressure uh contrary to why the tractors will say oh you bring in those foreigners and work them like slaves on those Farms you know they have no choice well that's not true at all that's not true at all ask anybody that hires uh foreign born workers on

their farm and the answer is you know if I don't pay them a competitive rate and give them housing they're going to go down the road and start Landscaping they're going to go to town and catch on they're going to go to Home Depot and catch on with a drywaller and uh and start uh carrying you know carrying supplies and and learn learn to do that trade it's not even realistic that they it's all about the low rate they are lower wages yes but they're not uncompetitive meaning it's not as though you

can pay them lower than other places although that is happening in Europe and apparently that was going to be rended and that's the interesting thing United States is pretty much lazy a fair still an economic uh situation if you want someone to work in your farrowing operation uh you're still going to have to pay them a competitive rate or they can go landscape drywall weing to working a in the food service in a kitchen what have you turns out there was this rule that in the United Kingdom you

know Britain um government is pouring money into Farm Technology it's also considering abolishing rules that allow companies to pay migrant workers 20% less than the going rate for jobs this is prompted protest from Farmers Lobby groups so you could hire a foreign born worker and in a much more regulated economy like the United Kingdom you could pay them 20% less um the gentleman with the the national Farmers Union does point out here that this is a problem because as he says that we've been hea

ring about this uh technology that's going to make it so we don't have to rely on these these foreign born workers for five years we've been hearing about it's coming in five years for at least five years and that's the one thing I want to get into so number one there's the criminality aspect of illegal immigration number two does it make us so dependent on this that it ends up being to our detriment that we haven't been forced to innovate I hear that argument but I don't agree with it because I

think we're still pretty damn inovative in other words and this is a real thing if you've ever traveled to developing countries th countries you'll see an area that you and I would have a backhoe you and I would have an escavator and they'll have 34 people out there with buckets and shovels doing the work in other words they're not automating or innovating because if you're paying somebody a dollar a day what's the hurry about going and buying a half million dollar excavator that's not happenin

g on our Farms we're not doing 34 people with a bucket and a shovel rather than bring in equipment instead we have immigrant Labor uh doing the the the fruit picking and the vegetable picking but also running a payloader so I don't know that we've uh short changed ourself on Innovation so the third problem with this uh I say is what about if we run out never thought of that now did you you just assumed it was an endless flow and an infinite Supply but it's not an infinite Supply it's a finite Su

pply you know population growth is still happening a little bit in some of the African countries not really in the Latin American countries where are these laborers going to pour in from if we become Reliant as we have with two 34s to 80% of our Farm Workers and food processing vegetable Pickers uh produce workers Etc foreign born and many of them illegal if we become Reliant as we have over the last 20 to 30 years what about when the supply dries up and that of course could end up being oh gosh

we got food shortages well not likely because of a productive capacity but you would see a situation and we're already seeing it with when there's crackdowns on migration there's crackdowns on immigration then all of a sudden somebody can't get workers and you hear about it produce rots in the field um especially crops don't get to the processing facility that's a real thing but what if we fix our business model and and create a business model that is again predicated on having this endless sup

ply of lower skilled immigrant labor that works pretty reasonably on their wage scale and it dries up ah never thought of that now I don't necessarily buy that because I believe that automation will pretty quickly hop in and so that's why I'm not worried about food shortages due to that and I'm also convinced that when we have such vast productive capacity if we across the board and it's going to be different by industry you know especially crop is going to have more problem cuz they're more rel

iant on it than say soybeans or corn because there's almost uh no migrant labor needed for the production of that heavily automated combines are you know 40 foot heads and 60ft Planters Etc but the point is and driverless tractors are coming all that but one thing I'm going to point out is um I don't think automation is going to happen as quickly as all of a sudden when labor dries up because there's been still some adoption problems I just talked about autonomous um why is it that we've been he

aring about driverless tractors since 2016 and I still don't see them I still don't drive through Nebraska and see endless amount of tractors driving themselves we've been hearing about it for 8 years and we're still not there we still need labor we know about robotic milkers before I recorded this I talked to my Dairy Farmer tenant that rents my acres and I said you're expanding your Dairy operation are you going to expand the Rob robotic aspect of it because about 650 of his cows are on robots

and he said no I'm not uh he said I I it's a lot of money out front and I still think that I'm better off with conventional using labor so there is still a prohibitive financial reason why we're not adopting robots across the board now the Wall Street article did profile another dairyman that doesn't have 13 foreign born labors he's down to two and a half are you got rid two and a half jobs he's in Vermont and he says we cut back on our cows and we uh put in robots and our milk production per c

ow is grown by 30% and then we've got less issues less disease and also clearly we got rid of an entire uh you know bunch of Workforce so it's going to happen so I don't know that uh automative automation adoption is going to be quite as great as you would hope but I also don't think it's going to create any kind of scarcity because of our productive capacity being so amazing let's talk about specialy crop okay those are the three problems I see with let's talk about specialy crop that's been us

ing labor for a long time and struggles you know on this very podcast I had the asparagus guy and he talked about where he can get Workers uh we talk about I had a recording on here about h2a there's an entire companies that just work on getting h2a employees onto Farms right I mean it's an entire industry um we know that this has been an issue for a long time we've been hearing for decades well you know I've got jobs Americans won't do and that's why I have somebody from El Salvador or somebody

from Peru or somebody from whatever Africa the point is this is going for a long long time so let's talk about is this in that benefit if it's true if you believe the numbers and I don't because it's been so politicized in the year 2023 about three and a half million migrants came across the border illegal undocumented Etc but then we found out that there's also another 350,000 that came over on a plane that your tax dollars paid for so now you're pushing up We Up 4 million what if there's anot

her million that we just don't even know about because this the political nature is such that the more this comes out the angrier much of the electorate gets we got a country about 335 million so you're talking about bringing one or two% of your population in every year and many of them are babies but many are not they are working able-bodied people hell if they walked for 100 miles to get here you'd think they can then work will they so that's where I say there's a couple of benefits to this fo

r agriculture um if we don't just put out the Dole and give them free healthcare free food free hotel rooms in New York City eventually they join the economy which is a good thing we've just talked about on this podcast number of times about declining demographic declining population aging demographics the people that are coming here don't tend to be 60 70 year olds they tend to be young and therefore should contribute to the economy if they're made to do so if they're not incentivized not to do

so I should say that's good from a customer standpoint generally when these customers these people come here they're going to live a higher standard of living than where they came from which means all of a sudden they eat more they eat better they eat cheeseburgers versus uh you know whatever they had in the their Homeland country so they eat better they eat more and they become customers of Agriculture also eventually some of them join the ranks of agricultural workers if again they are not in

centivized to not do so this could be a net benefit for us next thing the next thing though to wonder if or not it is a benefit is if they quickly Ascend the skills ladder then they might skill themselves out of being our workers and I want to get to that I want to use the German example here in a minute again it's got a good side it's got a bad side and I'm just throwing it out there for you to think about um I want to tell you about my new sponsor redo bionutrients I'm wearing their shirt righ

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ited from it and has historically from this but we always think of it unskilled we always think it's the poor person that can't speak English and many of them will not most of them will not um has not an advanced education or even a formal K through 12 type education many will not have that and we always think they're going to end up working um you know very U shall I say uh labor intensive or menial tasks and that's not necessarily cre true and Germany the German uh model was a little different

a guy went to India and through a policy that they have in Germany brought 140 Indian Nationals to Germany and trained them as butcher if you are in the egg business I'll bet you if you're like me I don't I don't go to the grocery store and buy beef I have a freezer of beef I like to get a quarter a half of beef from my buddy I used to raise it myself well it's hard to find a place that'll kill your steer and butcher for you because there's nobody that knows how to do it and there's very few pe

ople that want to do it so we've got this concern now about who the hell is going to do this job well in Germany this guy had such success because it turns out in in this region of Germany that's highlighted in this article U the number of butchers was cut in half because nobody wanted to do the work it's kind of dirty let's face it you you kill an animal and you cut it into pieces it's it's hard it's work it's labor and it's something that's not necessarily pretty okay but we need it and you ne

ed it and Germany needed it and now they've got this thing where they're bringing a whole bunch of Indians over and training to be butchers this is a good thing could the United States actually get our together politically and start this could we do a thing I'm too optimistic I know and you're say Damian this would be great but I'll see it I don't see it ever happening I don't either we used things like the h2a program we we've done things like uh you know they pushed the whole D what was it the

the DACA thing or something about you can go to college and and all the dreamers act we've heard all this stuff but none of IT addresses the real root cause which is we've got immigrants coming here to do work or we did have and and we had them a lot of them joining the ranks of ultural productivity which is fantastic but it's a shadow economy we know about it you think the government doesn't realize that 80% of the workers in this in this industry in the United States are foreign born and most

of them are here illegally of course they know that why don't they crack down because they don't want to create food shortages you don't think they' go to Dodge City Kansas and figure out that a whole bunch of those people are using the same social security number that are working in the beef plants I'm not being mean trust me but if you don't admit that this is what's going on you're naive or stupid or both so you you realize that livestock Farms all around America that are staffed by illegal

immigrants the fields maybe not in California which is already more regulated than this than a than any place on Earth but in many parts of the world trust me many parts of the United States well you know that the people are out there working in produce fields are not necessarily documented and so does your government but they don't go out there and raid them they're going to be a food shortage all of a sudden you go to Kroger and ain't no produce so if we know this going on why couldn't we also

say this you're an IL you're an illegal immigrant we like that you're here working you work for five years you get St you get uh you get citizenship if you want it some of them really don't also what about all these job training programs the federal government cranked out every time there's a downturn in economy then they invent 17 more job training programs and it does create jobs for government employees to to train people on how to do a non-government job which is really remarkable but stupi

d and that's why the government continues to create them to no actual productivity but what about this what if it was the private sector yes all of the USDA money all the grant money all these stupid things the government tosses money out what if it was actually butcher training teaching you how to be in the meat Pro meat in the meat processing business what if there are actually semiskilled jobs in agriculture that then you can get trained for as an immigrant and it also work toward your immigr

a your citizenship status see how this could all work um I'm being too optimistic to think that it actually will but I'm throwing out there that it could be a net benefit so I asked a question when we got into this whole topic is the migrant crisis a net benefit for agriculture and I pointed out why it could be workers if they are not disincentivized to become workers and dis disen disincentivized means if they're giving hotel rooms free Apartments debit cards free phones Obamacare and and all o

f a sudden they realize this is the not only the land of the free it's the land of free everything and they don't have to go to work uh they could become customers if you're a younger person you come to this country from another country chances are you're going to breed you're going to reproduce you might have a couple of kids and all of a sudden uh it changes the demographics for certain it changes the ethnicity makeup for certain but it also brings customers it also should have an effect of im

proving the economy negatives I talked about criminality negatives I talked about do we become too reliant on this and it hamstrings our Automation and our Innovation I'm not sure I see that happening negatives negatives are that they won't go to work that's another negative there's a lot of potential things there I threw it out there as a contemplation is the immigration situation good for us generally historically it has been good for American agriculture that's why we lead the world uh my gra

ndpa worked on people's Farms maybe yours did too and they were foreign born and then the economic uh incentives to uh become uh more productive and maybe start your own business Etc kicked in so this has historically been a a good thing whether it's going to be a good thing in this uh arrangement I can't say for sure my name is Damen Mason you know that this is uh a topic that we're going to hear more about and I think that's something that we would do well just like other things I talk about t

he the over Supply issue uh food waste and things that maybe we haven't historically um enjoyed talking about or been open about but it's time to be open about this is this immigrant situation and and by the way if you think for a second that there are not businesses that actually are very much supportive of a border that is very porous if not completely open you'd be you'd be silly to say that there are businesses that benefit from this there are B businesses that obviously oppose it and there

are business owners that do but there are business groups that probably very much are making this happen remember we do live in a transactional government we do have a government that is uh bought and paid for and that means policies as well so clearly having this flow of millions of people flowing into the United States of America is being perpetuated for a reason because it could be stopped so the question we got to ask ourselves in agriculture is where do we stand we might think one way and w

e can talk about why we're opposed to this flow of migrants but then we can say is it could this end up being a net positive for us you could also talk about do these folks end up in small towns that have lost population and they are working in agriculture and doing some of the jobs and then all of a sudden it changes we've all been to those towns if you travel at all you've been to those towns where all of a sudden you're in this little teeny town in Nebraska and you go through there and my goo

dness there's a Mexican grocery store and there's U uh a great deal of Hispanic influence well it wasn't that way 50 years ago you and I both know that so there are these changes that are in foot and you must ask yourselves must ask ourselves is this a good thing or a bad thing for agriculture and that's why I pose the question for you I very much appreciate you joining me here in this episode I got more great stuff coming you know what we are starting our eighth year of the business of Agricult

ure uh show and and very much appreciate you being a listener share this with somebody that can benefit from it uh check out my friend redo trua and pag they sponsor this show and make it so that you can listen to it for free and I'm glad that they do and I'm really glad that you do also till next time thanks for being here I'm Damen Mason and this is the business of Agriculture well that concludes another fantastic episode of The Business of Agriculture this episode was brought to you by patter

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