[Music] [Music] who is this guy okay this is Jim deio he's the author of many books one of my favorites is this new one here which is called JFK Revisited which is the book of the mini the docu series uh called Destiny betrayed the 4our one and the two-hour version and the two- hour version which is JFK Revisited which was on Showtime but I highly recommend the 4our which is on shout uh DVD yes and you you can you can stream it off Amazon you can stream it off Amazon which is in 41 1 hour segmen
ts uh fairly inexpensive at about $2.99 per segment which is what I really recommend I bought the U the Blu-ray cuz I'm a psycho and I wanted to hear Jim uh do the director's commentary with Oliver Stone which is worth the price of admission thank you so much for for you know people who are really into this stuff uh that's the best part of the of the uh of the Blu-ray is the commentary track which is what I bought it for uh Jim is also the author of reclaiming Parkland he's got two no no it's ca
lled the J that's been read titled it's called JFK assassination the evidence today okay all right I stand corrected also the author of um destiny betray two versions of Destiny betray don't get the first version okay get the SEC I have them both I got the second and the first well that shows you who he is that's who I am I have them both I also have probe magazine I also have the book the Assassin the assassinations okay just to explain to the audience that's that that's an anthology probe Maga
zine on JFK MLK RFK and Malcolm X that's I think that's the only book you'll find with that covers all four assassinations all four of the' 60s okay that was an anthology of the best that we did for prob brand for about seven years and that's an anthology of the best that we ever did from that from that magazine right okay so you have the assassinations the book which spins off of probe right also the Parkland which is now JFK assassination the evidence today and by the way the reason that book
was retitled Oliver goes up to uh skyhorse and they were doing the Putin interviews the book of the Putin interviews and he he calls me up from from uh the office okay he goes Jim why would you title your book after a movie that nobody saw okay I go well Oliver nobody knew it was going to be a bomb you talking about Parkland yeah the movie the movie yeah right well let's just talk about that for a second and he goes we're going to put a new title on this thing really what does it have to do with
him that's what I said we're going to put a new title on this me and Tony are thinking about him and Tony yeah this the guy who run Sky hor okay okay so we're going to put in title so you're going to have to redraft a couple of chapters okay yeah that's what he did and so to call I'm afraid to call him about this now Jesus Christ so that's how the book got retitled okay you know Oliver Stone special let me tell you something when you get notes from Oliver on scripts I I I mean it's he can be ve
ry harsh let me just put it that way well I know what harsh means because he said this boring ass script no no no let me just tell you I also wrote a miniseries of LBJ and it's similar to the Oswald one I didn't write all five cuz I'm not crazy anymore I wrote the first uh two hours and I gave it to him he said this is the worst piece of I've ever read in my life he goes I can't believe it's the same author he goes you didn't and I'm going what and it's there's nothing wrong with it it's the sam
e style the same guy I wrote it his love affair with LBJ and and we were talking about this when he did a recent interview uh with Ben Patrick uh Patrick P David who Jim is GNA be onday he was on Oliver was Oliver had him on yeah right or the reverse right he was on their show he went to Florida I guess he was down there so they started to really Grill him they knew the assassination inside and out and Oliver kind of backs himself into a corner saying you know the leading suspect might indeed be
LBJ he says I can't believe I'm saying this and it was one the best moments of you got to see this he kind of like brilliant you're brilliant how they kind of backed him into this and he kind of admits that but anyway he has a um a sour spot or or or love affair with LBJ that I wasn't able to get around by by showing the warts of LBJ in this miniseries which he didn't like but the Oswald one we did like and the Oswald one um is what we're trying to you know do the thing with McMillan now with t
he book but anyway I just wanted to give the uh people at home the stuff that you've done before uh just a side note on Parkland the movie directed by Peter lansman I don't know if you know who Peter lansman is New York Times more than a New York Times guy uh operation Mockingbird spookle uh uh related there's two CIA Consultants working on Parkland who are in the credits if you can sus them out they're in there so Parkland had a different message than just being a film he also wrote killed a me
ssenger and he actually did a nice job on no no no no they always do a nice job as as I've said to others when they did Animal Farm from England the animation the Orwell uh animation uh they did a wonderful job because why would they make product without money J they do a great job and they also did the mark felt uh with Liam niss he also did that another product which is pretty terrible exactly but look when you're working with the Spooks you got to put out product okay so let's just get into t
he Sass Eng because I have a couple of questions for you which have haunted me for years and maybe you maybe not throat wound is an entrance W according to Malcolm Perry on the first day that's what it was right and what's your opinion cuz that's my opinion too I'm just trying to all right I believe you have to take the first day you know what happened there I and he had the best view okay and I think you have to take that seriously all right the question is you know if it's an entrance soon whe
re did it go that's my next question and where did it come from where did it come from and that was my next question yeah all right what what happened a bullet okay now I think we know what somebody like David lton would say you know well they took it out you know something like that repl his entire thorax so and so that becomes that I agree that that becomes a little problematic but I don't know a way out of that unless you're going to go for the whole body alteration no no no I'm not but I'm j
ust saying it doesn't Traverse it comes from somewhere from the front if you play it out we were walking through on the extreme right hand side of the overpass the other day and it lines up perfectly with a throat shot you know and that building is a federal building with which had government agencies andin it the building on the other side post office inspectors are in there FBI CIA on in that postal building by the way the parking lot is over there but if you take that throat shot which doesn'
t Traverse I don't know why these shots don't Traverse but let's take the back right shoulder shot right also doesn't Traverse no according to the best evidence that doesn't go through why doesn't okay why don't both these shots go well let me okay first of all let me advance the evidence for that okay um that night they did put what they call a malleable probe into the back room all right by all the credible evidence it did not go through the body so I I believe that's kind of credible okay the
y also probed it it was literally the length of a finger I mean you're talking about an inch yeah it didn't go through very far okay all right so that also becomes problematic all right now there is evidence that there was a bullet that did drop out it's called a they called it a missile yeah all right but then people have argued now it wasn't really a missile it was really more like a you know and so the story gets changed as time goes by you know but then in the film uh JFK Des betrayed Randy
Robertson uh who's a radiologist uh found pretty good evidence that there was a bullet a fourth bullet that was found in the car that night okay and because James Young who was Berkeley's assistant this is Admiral Berkeley um Admiral George Berkeley personal phys personal who signed the death certificate eventually he uh told Young to send somebody out uh to recover anything that was still left in the car and so young sent two of his assistants out and they came back with a bent bullet all right
now what what makes this story credible is that young never talked about it right for for years on in and then out of the blue he mentions it in a military interview because he's a Navy guy okay Jan Herman was a naval historian okay and then he wrote a letter to of all people Gerald Ford okay and he asked did you have any evidence that there was a fourth bullet that was uh in the youth that and you know what Gerald Ford said look I I refer you to the books by David Bellon and Gerald pner okay r
ight so then he wrote Spectre he wrote Spector and Spectre was actually interested this is arand Spectre lated the Senator of Pennsylvania he was actually interested okay in in the story but for some reason they never got together young and him never got together so in in in the long version of the film all right uh there is evidence that there was a fourth bullet where it came from we don't know well you know have to tell you the autopsy was just an under disaster okay well I mean they had a on
e of the great takeaways of the film for me personally was the fact that Curtis lame was at the to yeah that is that's a little precious gem that's and by the way it's not just that but Doug horn interviewed a guy uh who did a uh schedule thing for Lay lame number one lied about where he was that day that's right okay that's right this is Curtis General Curtis bombs away L second secondly he disobeyed orders and did not come in at the airport he was supposed to be at which was Andrews he was sup
posed to land at Andrews he landed at National I I believe he did that for two reasons that first of all he didn't want any cameras to pick him up because all the cameras were at Andrew's Air Force Base cuz that's where Jackie Kennedy came in and secondly Nationals closer to Bethesda okay and then we have ' Conor who the request of James Humes he was told get that guy in the third bro in the gallery tell him to put that cigar out that's producing all this smoke and so well Conor walks over and h
e sees that it's lame lame takes his cigar out blows a smoke in his face and ' Conor comes back to Humes and says I can't tell him to take that's General Curtis L okay all right so what on Earth was he doing that's my question to go I mean it sounds like a celebratory cigar uh it seems more C than than any other now let me add something that's not in the book and not in the film okay I just discovered later later that evening Malcolm Perry's at his house this is Dr Malcolm Perry the guy who did
the tracheotomy did the tracheotomy and did the press conference and said it was an entrance room right who's later flipped yeah well we can get to that later so and so what happens is that he gets a phone call from Bethesda and it's the autopsy doctor hes okay and Boswell right and they're asking him to change his story all right that it was not an anterior entrance wound in the neck MH all right and this got very heated wow all right and and they threatened to take him before a licensing board
and take his medical license away sounds familiar and so he's and he said I you know I just couldn't do it at least not at that time he did later okay but but he wasn't going to do with that but that shows that the there's another story that goes along with that during at the end of the press conference when Perry was leaving a guy in a suit grabbed him by the arm and said don't ever say that again right all right so if you take now remember this is like 215 this is like 90 minutes after the as
sassination this is Friday afternoon November 22 some so some they knew they knew the cover story you know within 90 minutes about wound just about wounds I mean you talk about ballistic stories and then that night he gets a phone call that night this is what I mean I've always believed that in this case that the cover up was planned with the conspiracy okay you know so they knew how to snap it on very quickly you know during the day if if I could just interject something which I agree exactly w
hat you're saying because uh you're talking the truth why is an LBJ a co-conspirator then if the cover up is linked to the they well they they they he asked Hoover didn't he were they they shooting at me well that's that's because he knows they're being recorded I mean but they immediately get rid of the tape of obviously of as soon as it goes up to Larry Sabato in Virginia uh the tape disappears the audio tape there's there's a conversation of a 14 and a half minutes that's right that you have
the transcript but you don't have the tape right but we've heard we I remember the tape that tape disappears when it goes to the university you heard the tape I've heard the tape and others have heard the tape what what did it say exact what the transcript says oh it does right no no it's exactly the same but the audio disappears when it goes to the University of Virginia when Larry zato starts the presid oh starts the Presidential Library that's where it disappears Jimmy are you implying that L
arry I am not only implying I am saying it on the public record okay all right just to get on the record cuz I we were tracking it for years it goes there and all of a sudden the audio that's very interesting it's something I didn't know okay so let's let's move back to the bullets CU I'm interested in bullets right now all right uh we have the thing coming out of the back let's just briefly briefly for those at home explain how that back right wound is uh reconstructed in the warrant commission
report to be the the wound that Geral Ford moves it to the back of the neck and says I did it for the good of the American people thereby ad he did it for clarity he said for clarity thereby admitting that he singlehandedly altered this document and the warrant report on purpose untruthfully for clarity yes okay how could it be for clarity whatever whatever his reason is you can see the P you really do live in 1984 right yeah words mean the opposite of what they're supposed to mean all right al
l right now as he just said the review board discovered that uh Gerald Ford altered the location of the rear wound into Kennedy's back and he raised it up into the neck area this was not discovered until let's see 30 2 33 years after it happened you know because um Jaye Rankin's son Jaye Rankin was the chief Council of the war commission had to draft okay in in Rankin's archives in which Ford crossed it out and rewrote it all right now I don't have to tell you why that's important because it's s
ort of you know what prosecutors the hot phrase is consciousness of guilt okay when you do something like that and you're not a doctor and you're you're not a criminalist okay and you're none of those things but you actually just for the stroke of a pen you change history all right that's and then become president that's that's pretty bad all right and obviously he felt like the general public would not accept it you know where the true location was and since they were not going to publish any a
utopsy materials okay in the warrant commission very very few all right then it would be very very hard to detect all right and as Alan Del said go ahead publish it people don't read anymore they don't readmore you know unfortunately for them some people still did read okay and they said this is kind of hard to believe that this bullet comes in okay and it somehow goes up in trajectory and then when it's still rising up it somehow goes down okay to get into conle thing all right and uh and Sir w
ack had a had a really he testified before the house select committee and he said very eloquently you have this bullet coming in from the sixth floor okay at a downward trajectory it hits Kennedy in the back headed downward and somehow it in his body it deflects upward all right and then comes out of his neck at an upward angle all right and then it flattens its trajectory within a matter of just a few feet okay and it goes into Conley's back and that of course as he always used to say is I thin
k it was Mark Lane who originated the phrase the Magic Bullet okay and by the way I haven't even gone through the whole thing but that's it's hard enough to believe which is that and Jerry Ford tried obviously to conceal this okay but in the film as you know because we had the article written by the former premier of France dang you know he had a conversation with Ford and Ford admitted to him Valerie dang that yeah we knew it was some kind of an organization that pulled this thing off but we ju
st couldn't locate which one it really was all right it's probably the most honest thing he ever said yeah yeah obviously he never thought it was going to become public okay you know so he in the film we have bogs Cooper and Russell he's a three warring from the commission but if you count for that's really four right that's four people so The Minority Report was a majority report and they but they all thought it was negative all right well Russell says on audio tape to LBJ that I can't sign thi
s he didn't want to sign it right sign it right okay but he thought that his objections got onto the record oh right right they were deleted and well it's even worse than that he's sitting there he's got he's loaded for bear he comes in with the zuder films frames and the uh and the Connelly's testimony Etc and he thinks this is all going to be on the record and because there's a girl there who has apparently a stenography machine right and and so he's gets everything in and then what happens is
Harold Weisberg comes along and discovers that uh no there was no transcript of that meeting right and he tells Russell I believe it was in the 69 or something all right and uh and Russell says what and he's really angry okay and so he sends his assistant over to the National Archives is this really true and he comes back and says yeah it's really true you got six pages of a 4-Hour meeting okay so and so that provoked Russell to become the first warant commissioner who went on the record critic
izing what they had done now there's a second part to that story that never gets told they went down the uh what I this I call these guys the southern Wing bogs Cooper and Russell yeah all right they wanted to examine Marina Oswalt and I think it's in volume Five the war commission their interrogation of Marina Oswald is completely different than her interrogations under the uh war and dullas and McLoy because they wanted her to be their Chief witness MH it's pretty obvious when these three guys
are examining Marina they don't believe anything she's saying okay they're very negative about her they're trying to figure how the heck did you get out of Russia that's a great question all right and don't even believe that she can't understand English right all right they don't believe that either okay and so uh well her English does change over get it gets radically better better yeah yeah yeah my Russ is terrible and so after that interrogation which by the way the uh dullas McLoy and Ford
who I call the troa cuz they were really the leaders okay they're not there Warren's not there it's just ranking and those three guys and so see this what I'm saying right now this foreshadows what's going to happen at the last meeting because obviously Rank and figure these guys are going to be a problem okay and so that he tells the rest of the guys we can't have that recorded okay what what what Russell's going to say after the meeting they went down to D Plaza Russell took an unloaded rifle
up to the sixth floor oh okay and and he tries to and he comes back down with a smile on his face goes oh yeah that was an easy shot now now I I don't see how it gets any better than Carlos Hathcock okay tell us about Carlos Hathcock was the greatest sniper in Vietnam War all right he had 98 kills certified kills he had 200 uncertified all right and Craig Roberts was writing a book about the assassination and he knew Hathcock cuz he was a he was Roberts was was a sniper too yeah yeah I have that
book so he calls up Carlos Hathcock and he says what do you think of this whole warrant commission thing there three shots in 6 seconds with two direct hits all right and Carlos Hathcock had retired he now ran a SWAT team training center with in Virginia with an whole obstacle course and everything and so Carlos says Craig I can't tell you how many times we tried it and we lined up everything perfectly interesting okay we had the whole six floor we had the distance we had the Speed okay we had
the angle and everything couldn't do it right we couldn't do it all right now if that guy couldn't do it you're going to tell me Oswald okay who was a joke on the firing range he could do it you know I've always said the Carlos Hathcock story to me that's that's it I didn't want to talk about anything else well I love the great different configurations of the snipers Nest itself if you look at oh yeah that's very interesting isn't that I mean you see the different their attempts to create this t
hing out of Bonnie Ray Williams Kitchen which is people at home Bonnie Ray Williams was the African-American worker who ate the chicken sandwich the Dr Pepper and the menthol cigarettes waiting for his president to show up but if you read the warrant commission how long they talk to him about the chicken sandwich with the bones Jim yes that's hysterical yeah the guy was they're trying to move back from people at home they're trying to move back at the timeline of when Bonnie Ray Williams goes do
wnstairs to the fifth floor to G but Bon but Bonnie Ray Williams kind of stood his ground yes he does stand his ground yeah you know and so so they were stuck they were stuck with Bonnie Ray Williams that I was there till about 12:24 12:25 and they say wasn't a little no about no I ate the whole sandwich so we're supposed to believe that Oswald somehow knew that he was going to be G he's waiting behind the boxes listen Bon can you finish that chicken sandwich already I got a shooting to do all r
ight and and so look I got to got to move all these boxes and everything and I got to it's a nightmare okay and I got to put this rifle together Jimmy even Walter cronite that night says and the sniper ate lunch while he waited for the president to show and they got rid of that that was after two nights of German Mouser by cronite right until so and so they were left with this very improbable scenario of Oswald being able to somehow arange this sniper Nest at this window with these big boxes tha
t we like 35 and and arranging this in such a way that it would suggest that Oswald was waiting there with these boxes with a right and with this barrier behind them so nobody could see it but as he mentioned Alan eaglesham with the help of Tom Alia said that when Alia he's the first civilian photographer on the sixth floor those box weren't like that that's right well he has Alia I think it's his photos that show the different configurations of the boxes right I mean they're attempting to const
ruct the snipers Nest I mean nobody could dispute that any longer right Allan Eagle shim used to have this wonderful website okay in by the way Kennedy and King is your website kennedies and king.com right just to people at home great website with a lot of great information just want to get that out there going all right thanks for the commercial sure all right so uh Alan we'll be back in moment alen eaglesham had this wonderful website in which Tom aler gave him the photographs and it's right t
here I mean you could you can see how it changed over time right all right and the the obviously the Dallas Police whether by hook or corrup whether by Design or accident put this configuration together all right it wasn't Oswalt okay it wasn't oswal now but but what he brings up the thing about the way the commission tried to spin all this testimony you know I mean that's very very true and it would it would never and this is always one of the things that so perturbs me is that these are a bunc
h of lawyers M these are lawyers they know that what they're doing would never be fly in a courtroom okay but they did it anyway and it's simply because we have a system we call the adversary system all right and you have a defense and you have a prosecution and you have a judge okay and the defense is there to make objections if they think the prosecutor is gone overboard and the judge is supposed to make a ruling well this was a runaway prosecution there was nobody there well that's why they d
enied Lane's Lane's Mark Lane's ability to uh be the lawyer for Mark Lane wrote a letter to rankon right okay and he said I would like to represent uh oswalt's interest inti specifically and you know what rank Rankin's letter I think it's pretty I think it's in the war commission okay uh he says well words of the effect uh we're going to have too many secret documents if the FBI does not want to go uh public so we're not going to be able to to abide by your request all right so in other words th
e fact the Jagger Hoover knew that his case was fully shed okay didn't want that made public well again the deleted segment that we were talking about with LBJ is about the information coming out of Mexico City right with the phony a and the phony audio and and Hoover knew right that this was now let me give you some background on this since he brought it up uh Oswald was supposed to have gone to Mexico City in late September early October and he was supposed to have gone to the Cuban Embassy an
d the Soviet Embassy down there all right and then he was supposed to have returned he came down on a bus and he rode up on a bus he comes back about October 2nd or 3rd all right and the problem that we've had with with this story well first of all the war commission swallowed it whole okay they swallowed it whole but in a couple of days within a couple of days Hoover's on the phone with Johnson saying you know this is kind of funny because my agents have heard this tape that the CIA says is Osw
ald and they're interviewing Oswald and they say the guy on the tape is not the guy they're talking to and also the photos it's a different voice and then the other problem we have is they've sent up this Photograph okay and this guy doesn't look anything like Oswalt so you're left you're left with this this very serious problem well there's actually two problems three problems number one did Oswell go to Mexico I never bought into it and if if if why can't they have a tape of it and why don't t
hey have a picture and the other question is did did Hoover and Johnson believe this story coming out of the CIA about Oswald being there when they had Evans and said he wasn't there so that becomes a very serious problem and later on I now I can't speak about Johnson but Hoover 6 weeks later wrote a famous notation on a memo and he said words of the effect let's not trust the CIA you know that's no job they tried to give us about oswal in Mexico City right all right so this is 6 weeks later oka
y he writes this m Mo now let me ask you this if Hoover himself did not believe that Oswald was in Mexico City and he himself says that the CIA gave him a Snow Job why is he going along with this story well why would anybody go along with the Oswald in Mexico City story after that right because he's that point in time the FBI obviously didn't believe that Oswell was in Mexico City also he's trying to get his unemployment transferred to Austin he's in the DMV he's cited here and in a he's also in
odo's apartment he's an odo's apartment and he's also trying to meet with Connelly to get his discharge changed so there are witnesses in 301 FBI Files uh statements 302s 302s I'm sorry that he was here yeah you could place him elsewhere right you know so so this becomes a very very serious problem a very serious that gets worse and worse and worse as and then when the Lopez report finally came out now let me let me preface that in case let me just explain who Lopez is for the audience um Eddie
Lopez Edie Lopez and Dan Hardway were the two authors of a 400 page report about Oswald in Mexico City for the house select committee on assassinations the reason that it was never Declassified until recently about 16 years later all right was that Eddie told me that Jim when we met with the CIA about the report because they had last pass over what went into the volumes okay when we met with the CIA to go over the report it took us 5 hours to get through the first two pages they objected to eve
rything everything okay and so after the first day Blakey threw in the towel okay he wasn't going to spend 6 months trying to get the Lopez report to classified so this is why it's not in the volumes but when it finally did come out there was a whole series of questions in fact the first 15 pages of the Lopez report deal with the camera outside the Cuban Embassy it describ because because that camera was so high tech you wouldn't understand the way it worked it was what they called a pulse camer
a when the air pressure changed outside of the door the the camera would be activated triggered the camera and they explained this technology because what they're trying to say is you got a camera like this you don't have a goddamn picture of Oswald are you serious you know all right and then then the the the David Phillips cover up story was a camera was broken that day it wasn't they they found you can believe it they found the work reports that said no the camera was in operation that day all
right in fact there were three cameras there was one across the street right in operation Operation so how the hell did they not get a picture of also there's a documentation because here's the Capper he was there five times so there should be 10 pictures of Oswald going in or out there isn't one one so how can that possibly be you know and so this is what I mean about once years go on and saying this is another serious problem the whole thing about delay and about censorship see if these probl
ems would have been made aware of at the time they would have been shredded you you would have created a real furer in in the public but the fact that they get delayed and for example the low pressure report doesn't come out till 30 32 years later okay who cares you just it's just like people like us that's all right you know well that's they we were talking about here last right about uh you know Biden now has it on his desk to release what's remaining in the uh yes in the archives we he'll pas
s it on I'm sure of it so this this becomes a very very serious Oswell to Mexico City becomes a very very serious it's always been a big deal to me I'm obsessed and so the question don't the torture of the of the receptionist that we ordered Duran Ian this poor little girl syia Duran so syia the reason that they did this they essentially silenced her forcibly yeah okay was that when it came out later years later when she testified before the house select committee uh Eddie Eddie Lopez told me th
is story because we're we're interviewing Duran right this is Sylvia Duran the receptionist at the Cuban EMB had the most interaction with the that's right or the the supposed osor yes okay and so Eddie says syvia how tall was the man that you talked to and she points to Gary Cornwell okay who's the deputy counsel can you have him stand up interesting and he stands up because it was about that tall Gary Cornwell is like 5'5 right okay and he goes That's how tall he was there you go yes well osal
was 5'9 5'9 and a half Well it's worse than that they alleged that she slept with him too and well that I think that's a bunch of but the other problem is that he had blonde hair okay oswal did not have brown blonde hair okay so once she gets in the record then the whole thing becomes well then obviously somebody was impersonating him okay so why what for for what reason when when was this this was late September okay when was the assassination okay 7 weeks later okay so obviously the frame fra
me is beginning in September yeah well at I think it was before I think no no no but I'm saying the first Smoking Gun evidence of the frame involving David Atley Phillips out of Mexico City begins in September the first Smoking Gun right and let me tell you the story that I just told him which uh is is is when I first met Eddie Lopez I drove up to his house in Rochester New York he lives in Rochester New York yeah he lived in he he was a lawyer up there and so I had the what was then at that tim
e the latest version of the Lopez report and I had just read it okay and and I didn't know who Ann good pastor was all right and so I I drive up to his house and we're sitting in his basement eating sandwiches and I'm interviewing him and uh and I I'm sitting here he's sitting there and I go Eddie who was an good pastor and Eddie says she was a lying conniving and if there was any justice in this sced up world she would be in jail today wow and I said but Eddie who was she and he said look Phill
ips was almost never there cuz he was always flying up to jam W or uh langly yeah and so when he wasn't there she would take care of his operations all right she was second in command of Mexico City give you an example she was the one who got the take from the Russian and the Cuban embassies every day right all right and then had them to the terrorist offic who would do the transcripts and she lied about this and it said right in the Lopez report okay cuz she sent them on a wild goose chase all
right as to who actually got the first take and then after they interviewed about the fourth guy the about the fourth guy he says wait a minute uh and good pastor was in charge of that and so they've got this in the report you know how they had to go to four people and so it turns out that an good pastor herself was a person and but and see obviously what she was trying to conceal is that she would have been the first person to know that there was no picture and the voice was wrong okay and well
when you say wrong I mean uh like they made a mistake or well somebody was there right it's random person J okay so so she would have been the first person to probably know this okay and so she obviously didn't want to confront that question because she was actually the person who sent the mystery man photo up okay maybe we can insert that in here well I I sent you the photo last week of the guy which will inserted cuz the mystery man photo this guy looks like about 61 about 220 somehow went to
high school with M Wallace and he's a real he's like a rugby player he doesn't look like Oswald at all okay and then in the Lopez report it gets even better his name was G it gets even better they figured out who he was and they figured there's no way in the world that they could have mistaken this guy for roswald he was a Russian Diplomat undercover all right okay and so this is what gets her in so many problems and good is that she was covering up for whatever was going on and whatever was go
ing on was obviously a deception all right that was probably planned in advance all right well look what you have to do with the bus trips alone I mean all all the crazy the tickets and who's online and who's sitting with him on the bus Jimmy and what what passport passport I mean it's were the two Australian girls on the bus I love the Australian girls I wish I was on the bus with those two girls all right and and how the how the hell he got back is even worse than how he got down there yeah th
ey can't get him back okay you know they no they actually can't get him back they just made the the they just made up a story okay o choah who was the assistant to the uh the Secretary of the Interior who was really in charge of the whole cover up for the CIA in Mexico City because they just blew off the warn commission guys when they went down there all right they uh you know they just got the cold show they they weren't even allowed to interview Durant right okay and so these these guys ran th
e whatever investigation there was you know and so that's why they paced it together this story about him going down and him going back you know which was I I believe you know it's completely manufactured I it completely kind of fairy tale yeah I never I mean it's so amazing how many people buy into that in the JFK research oh even in the Lopez report yes they bought the story of I recently reread it you know to look for that and I was shocked that yeah they did buy into it but he Oswald is here
doing things trying to transfer his unemployment going to the DMV going to try to meet Connelly who's out of town right I mean there documentation of him in Texas yes at this time employment center the employment center is what I meant I said unemployment but I think he was trying to transfer his New Orleans unemployment insurance yes right and he was also looking for a he was also looking for job the employment what they call the Tec right Texas Employment Commission right exactly exactly all
right so Mexico City has become a very very serious uh hole in the so-called official story which Unfortunately they covered up for so long you know that uh almost nobody talks about it it's very yeah I always bring it up I mean especially because of poor syia Duran who who's ordered by us to the Mexico City secret police to be put on ice and by the CIA by the CIA I mean that's that's really an international War crime at that point you know just in terms of documentation of now now let me tie th
is in with this we actually had a section on Mexico City in the film uhu okay but what I talked about here yesterday is that when we got when we got thrown out of Oliver's office because of cv19 wait a second what is this now we got thrown out of Oliver's office during the cv19 oh oh oh I'm sorry covid-19 yeah the pandemic and so uh and so I was not involved in the final editing of the film so I really didn't have anything to say about that and I talked about the things that I would have tried t
o get in the film then and uh one of them was besides the section we had in Me by the way we had Danny and we had Eddie and we had Lisa pce talking about Mexico City oh and are there outakes of that or yeah is it I don't know where they're at but oh wow okay all right and so uh the other thing was Betsy wolf and the house select committee on the Oswald file Betsy wolf was assigned to write a report on the CIA file on Oswell all right and so this woman and nobody's ever heard of her I heard of he
r okay and and be Malcolm blunt the the brilliant English researcher sent me this okay the file on Betsy wolf she asked for every divisions Charter in the CIA okay and so they gave her all the charters and she read through all of them and then from that information she mapped out a graph of where the Oswald file should have gone theoretically all right so then she actually gets the Oswald file and she's uh it didn't go where it was supposed to go okay and so then she start started interviewing p
eople all right and She interviewed about four or five people and this culminated in I believe November of 1978 with her interview of Robert Gambino who was the office of security Chief at that time which is where his file went to was the office of security all right and so Gambino tells her look it doesn't matter how many pap are coming in or if they're pre-stamped if you intervene at the first gate which is the office of M Logistics and you arrange for the documents to go somewhere that's wher
e they will go they will bypass whatever happened so what what this indicates of course as far back as when oo went to Russia which I think is 1959 all right somebody was rigging Oswald's file at the CIA because the office of security they don't open 2011 files which is the most common file you know in the CIA right and there should have been a 2011 file open by every law that she found out every official rule or unofficial rule there should have been a 2011 file open on a even even Hoover going
to 59 uh reports that there are double laws out of New Orleans right Jim yeah no no this was a report when they interviewed margarit right she said that my son is supposed to be at a certain place now well she wrote to Hoover yes his mother oswal's mother wrote a letter to Dro Hoover about her son right and and so but this is so interesting because why would somebody want to keep Oswald's file away from everybody else including where he's supposed to be which is the SR division his papers she p
redicted well see what what she did and this shows you what this censorship does see John Newman's book in 1995 oswal the CIA great book great B has this in there yeah it's in there well if we would have had her reports back in 1979 we would have had them 16 years earlier yeah okay I mean they delay for a reason yes yeah there's reason of Madness that there right this is very important information about the Mexico City the Oswald file and it was Kept Secret to us for about 17 years you know so t
his this is very very interesting stuff um that would have affected a real investigation which of course there's never been in in the JFK case you know why was Oswald's file rid in 1959 why was someone impersonating why were they impersonating him in Mexico City or in New Orleans okay ear we didn't get to that yet all right there was a guy in in uh in Minsk who was his uh uh tid I developed a relationship with him okay nice book he wrote right yeah no and I we emailed for Oswald Russian episode
yes okay so he sent me a sign copy of that from and we he talked about how he was his wingman that they would go around they went to the woman's dormatory they picked up chicks and they went to dances yeah yeah the two of them you know and he was he was obviously KGB himself I don't know if he saw early photos of him he looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger he's so buff and he's a medical doctor I mean interesting Guy this is so strange about Oswald and the Soviet Union because it today is so seethro
ugh but the warant commission didn't print any of this stuff it's very clear that because there had been a number of so-called defectors going into the Soviet Union with strange backgrounds you know like the r Eastern Europe as also Soviet Union but also and that the the KGB was on to something you know that uh we think that uh the Americans might be trying to send in under the guise of defectors really undercover Spies all right so when Oswald had that you know the Metropole hotel which is wher
e Oswald was at this was reserved for by the Russians for you know incoming States men and diplomats Etc so they put Oswald in those this hotel which was obviously wired and infared camera and everything and Priscilla McMillan Jo and well not just her arene Mosby also oh that's right all right and so they're listening to these interviews and you know Oswald was the most unprepared undercover spy ever he was a baby he gets the year of the Rosenberg ution wrong okay then he says he picked up a Ros
enberg flyer in New Orleans you know Rosenberg F in New Orleans okay all right and well he was briefly in New York in high school oh that's obvious that's what I mean he screwed up okay all right and so uh and so they obviously saw through him and then he did this fake attempt talk about the fake cuz that's that's just so ridiculous he knows that his Russian escort's going to be coming up to his room right okay right uh's her namea something yeah yeaha Rema yeah yeah yeah and he knows she's comi
ng up she's his tour guide and and right and so and so he puts himself in the bathtub okay and he writes a note okay like All Is Lost or something like that right right well he's also given the 48 hour notice right he just got the notice he just got the notice that he's got to leave uh the Soviet Union and so he goes ahead and he cuts himself across the wrist except when they examine that they were very superficial okay and so he lays in the tub he lays in the tub you know very dramatic okay yea
h I mean this is like got a check off you know and so uh and so Rima comes in well they they literally have to break the door right and she breaks it she tells the guy the door is locked okay and so they go in and they break down the door and we have this you know great Al Greco scene you know with the Oswald you know so then they sent him in to this hospital to The Nut House yeah well I didn't want to say that okay well there's a Wing it's like a mentally mental testing okay and so obviously wh
at happened during this phase is that the KGB figure for for sure this guy is some kind of a Defector and so what happens is that they send him to Minsk 400 miles away from Moscow they give him probably one of the nicest Apartments a great apartment yeah looking right over a river or a lake or something no no the river yeah the river river views okay and he's got these beautiful Windows Etc okay and then they they proceed to set up a spy Network so instead of the Spy trying to find out what's ha
ppening right they come to KGB now put a spy Network around Oswald and then they put uh there's a great scene in tet's book where they dig a electron electronic recorder out of the sink that whole apartment had they had a coaxial cameras that were ahead of their time in the walls and they were watching them have sex in the other apartment this is true it's in his in his book also this is hysterical hysterical okay you know and so the guy who was supposed to be this super sleuth ends up being spi
ed upon okay by everybody all right and so Oswald figures out you know well that was that okay and so then he he asked to come back you to to the United States all right and anybody well don't let's not skip the Honey Trap of of marine oswal coming with him well well tiit tiit has a in his book in tid ofit's book he I had never seen this before he tries to draw a picture that Oswald was maneuvered into meeting Marina like it was pre plan yes okay and it's a very interesting scenario I don't know
if I buy it but it's a very interesting scenario he that that night at this dance that that he's supposed to meet Marina with okay and so he and talk about a quick fast engagement okay it was about a month yeah yeah well don't forget he had the other uh girlfriend the other girlfriend that broke his heart right who moved to Israel later on is still alive in Israel by the way well she is yes absolutely oh my God she didn't want a Jewish girl she didn't want any part of him she had nothing to do
with anything she said look you're not going to last very long she literally says that as she dumps him but then that's where the marina thing comes in so then you know they have this incredibly fast romance and and an engagement all right and pregnancy and what pregnancy oh yes right right right okay now I like the sex Parts you seem to be spping the sex parts so what's so interesting though and what even the warant commission could not stumble over this they talked to some of the white Russian
s in Dallas Fort Worth okay and they even admitted now obviously that was another spy Network around o right Russians to Mor schil and his friends yeah and his buddies and so and so they say it's very strange for the Russians to let a married couple leave at the same time together that's very unusual okay uh and in fact I think one of the guys that he had never heard of it happening before so you get this very odd you know was Marina KGB asset or something like that you know on oswal okay and th
en they just interject what the what had previously occurred on these situations was the Honey Trap uh person who came with us and this later on happened with Clayton lry uh the guard at the embassy years later the same thing happened uh you bring the bride back to the United States you get into a tussle with them they get divorced and now they're free to roam and gather intelligence on their own right and they did not want that to happen with Marine Oswald and there is violence but it is usuall
y provoked by the Honey Trap uh woman who wants to break free and do her intelligence operation and I think that's what happened here with Ruth so so so what what happens is that once they return okay um there begins to be a a very talk about a weird weird situation here you have this supposed Marxist all right whatever you want to call he used to call himself a Marxist leninist where does he live he lives in the White Russian community in the Dallas Fort Worth area which is where we're at today
that's where we're at all right and then in the summer of 1963 he starts associating with the Cuban Exile community in New Orleans so in other words here he is with these white Russians whose goal is to overthrow the Soviet dictatorship and bring back the Zar okay and these guys in New Orleans whose sole goal is to overthrow Castro and bring back somebody like Batista all right so what the hell is a guy like this doing in these two vicinities and if you read the war commission they never bat an
eyelash over any of this stuff doesn't seem unusual to just has some odd friends I mean he's a social climber you know okay well of course the relationship with deori this penniless kid the whole thing about deor sheld is is I mean you could write a book about there have been books written about this okay is that what's so strange is that this guy who deor sheld introduced them to was a former brutin was his name Admiral brutin oh yes yeah yeah yeah this guy is running colins radio oh that's ri
ght that's right I forgot about brutin he's running colins radio which is a spook radio I'm going to get to that okay all right and and this is one of the first people that theor sheld introduces them to all right now what makes this so unbelievably strange is that on the day of the assassination you have reports that this Carl ma guy was apparently in a car with Oswald okay now Carl ma is an employee I'm going to get to that okay just so we know go ahead yeah now he happens to work for colins r
adio that's right that's right so you have these bookins okay of brutin at Collins radio with Ma at Collins radio and to top it off I believe I'm right about this Ma and his wife knew tippet and his wife and they go to her house right that day that's right that's right that is a we weird obscure fact okay all right not over yet the guy who she then married okay also worked at Collins r that that that Marina married yeah right that she married everybody goes to Collins radio now the Collins radio
is now this is just a coincidence right yeah the whole Collins radio angle has never been explored I mean that is a great side uh episode all right so now who's colins radio Collins radio did had all these kinds of contracts right recording sound with the CIA with the Pentagon Etc it's very clearly part of the military-industrial complex and they got really big later on okay so you know you just this is what you have in this case well don't forget he's can all these things be a coincidence can
can all how about the Cuban Missile Crisis he's a jagger child mapping out yes you know right yeah okay so this was the strangest communist of all time all right 24 years old when he dies he's a baby yeah he's a baby the most complex 24 years old did you ever hear that he went to a safe house in reram after before and he had the DI in fact some guy who wrote a book yeah about he actually had me write the introduction for it okay and and he said a diary tape to his chest he believes that there wa
s a stop in Netherlands in roddam and a yeah I think it was and and so he thinks that Oz was de breathed at that time yeah yeah oh that's that was a very interesting story I know yeah I've never heard that again I mean I I it's in my script by the way I put I dramatize the entire thing so I mean that's where he gives him the diary that's taped to his stomach because they're checked on the train yeah that he talked about that right okay the whole train right in yeah the whole train right in and t
he diary is essentially human intelligence which is what what we needed back then because there's no satellite technology right what he was doing was seeing how the trains run how do you buy something in a department store how much do you pay when did the train but he was also doing a report on the radio Factory that to and he also took some photos with his minox camera of their military some very strange photos right right well it seems like everybody had a minox camera back then because I rece
ntly saw newsreal footage from wfu which is up at um Balor uh showing a parade in Dallas where um uh Jack Ruby is with George Senator and there's a jazz band on a flatbed truck with a black a beautiful black woman singing who worked in the carousel with his band it was a house band and there's no sound to this footage recently released literally two months ago and in the footage is Jack Ruby with George Senator playing both of them with a minox camera oh my God interesting yes passing it back an
d forth George sen is going like look look how it works you know and he's and he's and Ruby's got his hat off and he's playing with his hair you know combing his limited hair back the the cigarette box camera right okay it was about this big okay and it was usually very expensive for that time all right and it was not easy to get the film developed either you know and so we we could you already talked about that probably with uh when you talked about the pains Mark has one I have one myself oh y
ou did oh yeah but I also indicate that well this is 2022 exactly but I found ads from Dallas ads in in the in the newspaper full page ads from nean Marcus selling the camera like it was beautiful ads beautiful SC sketched ads showing upscale people buying the camera and it was $300 can you imagine Oswald in a nean Marcus store no I can't and he was obviously given the camera at a different at a different point but it I think I think they would have kicked him out was for sale in nean Marcus yea
h wow what is the deal with with Payne's husband um did you did you talk about thein camera Caper when Max was here yes yeah he didn't put that in his movie I talked about it and we had uh our own separate episodes on Ruth pay we did too I talked about it that is one of the most incriminating things that that you can say about Ruth and Michael Payne yes the whole menx camera C and these of course now well they're assigned to him now I mean by well wait a second I just going to say this go ahead
deor Shelt is obviously the guy who was um he later said this he later said that look I would have never met Oswalt Okay the reason I met osw because Jay Walton Moore asked me Jay Walton Mo being the CIA Chief in Dallas Texas that's why I met Lee Harvey also why would I meet a guy like that you know and so what happens then of course is that after uh he trapes his around with Marina and and Lee he then leaves for Haiti okay and he has a little gathering in which he invites Ruth and Michael Payne
and this is how deor sheld passes off Marina and Lee to the pains then he goes to Haiti well don't don't forget the quid pro qu going to Haiti with the o going to say okay go ahead okay yeah uh somehow someway uh he gets something like $285,000 deposited now now now that might not sound like a lot of money today because here we are in 2022 but it would be the equivalent of about 2.8 million okay you know plan all right um you know gasoline was 20 cents a gallon cigarettes were 40 cents a pack t
hat kind of thing you know so then then he goes to Haiti and there's they're they are cleared of course before they go there they visit military intelligence and the CIA Etc okay and and they're there for the assassination all right and so it seems to most people you know who try and look at this objectively like this might have been a kind of pre-planned handoff okay from the deor sheld to Ruth and Michael pay now can we prove that probably not okay but it just looks that way circumstantially r
ight well he testified for a long time before the warrant commission as did Ruth wait a minute Ruth if you take a look Michael Payne's testimony it's 6,000 it's over 6,000 questions she's number one right or yeah she's yeah I think next Oswald oh right okay yeah yeah yeah in total length all right so she's a meaningless character I mean she's just testifying for days and there's all kinds of we've already done a show about it so we don't have to go there all right now getting back to our film yo
u know JF KY visited and the book and the book more importantly the book Sky horse publishing okay uh one of the things that um there were three keystones that I tried to make an archway with the script and the pre-planning of the script which I thought were very very strong pieces of evidence that you could use in a courtroom they were number one the secretaries on the fourth floor which you had Barry Ernest did you have Barry Ernest on not yet oh you have I to this is the girl Barry Ernest wro
te a book called the girl on the stairs fairly recently yes yeah and it that's focused on Victoria Adams yes but it also had parts of it about sandre Styles and Garner these are secretaries within the Texas school book deposit on the fourth floor of the Texas school book people home so that was going to be my one of my keystones another Keystone was going to be John Stringer and string his testimony as the autopsy photographer right with Doug horn and Jeremy gun where he looks at the pictures of
Kennedy's brain and he walks over and he says this is anco I didn't use anco I use Kodak this is the film stock right and then he says you see these little numbers here at the bottom this was a press pack it's a series I didn't do that and so Jeremy gun asked him are you ready to deny you took these pictures and he said if that's anco and that's a press pack I didn't take these pictures right okay all right and so that was going to be my second Keystone oh this is in the film yes yeah okay go a
nd then my third Keystone of course was going to be c399 and the work that Gary Aguilar and Ting Thompson did with Bardwell odm the FBI agent uh they tracked him down and they uh 399 being the Magic Bullet and Gary adalar being the optomologist who was allowed to see the autopsy photos by the family now and Ting Thompson's a private investigator so he found Bart Bodum because they wanted to find them because in the FBI documents there in the war commission it says that he showed the bullet to th
e two people originally found it Tomlinson and Wright okay at Parkland Hospital and the problem that Gary had is this is the chain of custody portion the the magic bu just people at home people at home and so and so the problem Gary had is that well where's the report where's the 302 report of his interview with those two people and so he goes down to the National archives you know says give me every 302 report by B wall OD okay it's not there all right and so he tells Tink about this problem he
's having goes well when we talk to Bardwell otm and so Tink puts him into his you know gounder machine all right and he finds out where Bardwell odm is and they go down and Bardwell odm says I never showed that bullet to anybody wow he goes and if I would have showed that to op right I sure is how I would have remembered cuz I knew op right cuz he used to work for the the uh Sheriff's Office all right and I would have damned be sure have written a report about that for C okay I would have writt
en a report believe me I know the way Hoover was about this stuff so no I know so here you have a very serious problem you know you know the Providence of c399 you know was it the bullet okay was it the bullet that was really the film clearly blows up the custody chain of custody on 399 which is one of the one of the best parts of the film thank you it really is it's just one of the great all right parts of so so we decide I decided those would be the three and then we have that magic moment whi
ch with Henry Lee okay which is you know that was Henry Lee the coroner no no Henry Lee is the leading criminalist criminalist crime reconstruction guy there is in the United States did he invent blood splatter evidence or he know he's the best that there is okay and so he calls me up one day and uh says Jim I go yeah Henry Lee I go great are you in La he goes yeah can you come down and go over some of the questions you're going to ask me and I go sure now if you live in LA and you understand th
e traffic situation and that I live in Burbank you'll understand the humor and what I'm going to say next and I go where are you and he goes Malibu see you in a couple of days you're going to have to wait a couple of hours okay because there's only one way in the Malibu and this is a Friday afternoon at 3:00 that you're calling me God oh my God okay so I eventually got down there and one of the things I asked him you know I said you were a captain back in Taiwan and he goes yeah I did that for 5
years wow I didn't and I go well then you supervise a lot of Investigations and he goes yes and I go well then why don't you talk about chain of custody and that little speech he gives in the movie that's exactly the speech he gave me at Malibu okay and I said cut you're going to say that when Oliver asks you this question it's really funny here you have this world famous criminalist was his wife there too yeah that's going to say oh okay yeah okay and and and so there he is getting all made up
and every okay and then he's sitting in a chair in front of Oliver and he this guy he had his own TV show on True TV for 3 years famous cases of Henry Lee he's published 30 books anytime there's a big case you're going to try and get him in your case and so here he is was all and there his wife is running around the little camera she wants all these pictures of him being interviewed by Oliver Stone you know for this movie okay I I wish we could have used him more there were a couple things he s
aid that I wish we could have gotten in the film one was about the 90° angle he says here you have this bullet coming in on the right the left angle but to exit it has to reverse trajectory and start going left to right inside Timothy's brain all right and so Oliver says well what kind of angle would that be he goes 90° okay okay so and then he said uh the other thing he said that I wish would have got in the film was I asked him about all this stuff about trajectory analysis you know cuz ever s
ince the ABC special in 2003 every everybody who has a computer now tries to do a computer simulation of the John F Kennedy assassination okay they have it at the Museum now too so I asked them I go what what do you think about doing so he goes what do you mean a trajectory analysis and I go yeah he goes you can't do one in the Kennedy case and I sat there for about a second I said I didn't think you were going to say that wow and then this lawyer who was with them said well the there's people w
ho tell you they can but you can't and he said because neither TR neither wound in Kennedy was dissected therefore you cannot do it's just guesswork yeah okay you're just guessing you're not you can't prove anything without the dissection all right and so I I said well you know something now that you said that we're not going to do it and so what we did in the film is we concentrated on could a bullet that did that emerge in the condition that it did and we had sir weet and um Joseph Dolce you k
now ones a forensic pathologist one was a battlefield surgeon we had those two on that then the other thing we did of course was a chain of custody and we had Gary agilar on that one and we had um uh Henry Lee and we had Brian Edwards you know talking about the whole the whole chain of custody thing you know on c399 you could have gone on for hours cuz it's not just it's also was that bullet found on that stretch okay was that the right structure because if you read the uh War commission testimo
ny Spectre does everything he can to try and get Tomlinson uh to change his story about the stretcher Tomlinson is the one who find he's the the first guy found it yeah then he gave it to op right right then the other thing of course is the interview with what Wallace milm did with wri's Widow who eventually became chief of nursing at Parkland and in 1993 he interviewed her and she said oh we were finding all kinds of bullets that day that's right go what goes yeah that wasn't the only bullet we
found you know that we so so I think one implication of that is come H high water they were going to get a bullet on some FBI agent Barrett with Buddy Walters finds one in the grass right also and he took that to DC on a Jet Plane yeah so so so here you have you know if you again like I said earlier if you had the real Rules of Evidence okay that you have evidence and testimony you know the the war commission story wouldn't even get off the ground okay and so uh so those are three of the things
that we tried to another thing we tried to do was Berkeley we tried to I think ber part great the Berkeley was great about George Berkeley cuz he almost comes clean doesn't he right there's two or three times W where it's almost like he wants to this is Admiral Berkeley the private physician of JFK who signs the death certificate right and and so and and as we have Don Miller talking about Dr Don Miller he also stays with LBJ through his right right leaves the last day that's in the long versio
n oh oh right yeah Don Miller who knew Berkeley's son says look if Berkeley would have testified he had to explain that death certificate yeah because the death certificate puts the wound in the back at T3 which is too low all right and also which they don't show in the war commission volumes he signed the autopsy face sheet which also puts the wound in the back too low all right so that's probably and and here you can believe it there was no cross-examination of Berkeley and he also he's also p
utting himself in legal Jeopardy by doing that yes yes if he would have testified if he would have testified all right so there's a couple of times maybe three times that Berkeley intimated that uh he had other like for example I think this is in ' 64 he testifies for the Kennedy Library in a private interview and the guy asks him well what do you think of this whole three bullet thing and he says words of the effect uh I'd rather not comment on that you know okay why would he rather not comment
on it yeah what's it to him all right and so uh that was another thing that I tried to concentrate on was the whole story about Berkeley we also tried to put in some information about the rifle okay because I think that has for too long been too ignored okay so we tried to raise some questions about did osal really order that rifle because it's obviously it's not the one that the warrant commission says he ordered or that's in the Smithsonian today yes and so and so so that's another thing that
we tried to question for the I think probably the first time and then we tried to get into the whole uh the whole thing about these small particles in the front of the skull versus the large particles in the back of the skull which would suggest a shot from the front and I I believe that that this is the first time that's ever been on a major broadcast media so uh yeah so that that was something that I believ you I really appreciated the fact that all was really willing to go that far in someth
ing like this the the the only disagreement that we had about what I wanted to put in versus what finally got in uh the the one time that we had a disagreement was I wanted to put in the 6.5 mm fragment okay uh in case your listeners don't know what this is right when the ramsy Clark panel convened in 1968 this was the Attorney General under LBJ who convened put together a medical panel and for the first time on the x-rays they said that we see this 6.5 mm fragment in the back of the skull now w
hy is that important first of all it's clear as day if you look at the X-ray but none of the autopsy doctors mention it and neither of the FBI agents denied the at the mo said they saw it they didn't see it it's very hard to miss this is silbert and O'Neal Sebert O'Neal and the three autopsy doctors and Humes how could they not see it they examined it looks clear in the film yeah and so the the other problem is that it just 6.5 mm just happens to match the uh Western cartridge company bullets fo
r that particular rifle so here you had smoking Prima fasci evidence that this rifle fired this bullet in the Kennedy and nobody saw it the night of the op so the Ramsey Clark panel so what I wanted to do is I wanted to put that forth and I wanted to label that section as a second Magic Bullet because if you believe this story that the war commission is trying to tell you this projectile that hits Kennedy in the back of the skull goes through his head mhm comes out the right side of his Temple n
ear above the right ear above to the right of the right ear it blasts forward into the front of the car and the head of the bullet and the base of the bullet land in the front seat now here's the problem the 6.5 millimeter created all right that has to be from the middle of the bullet if you got the head of the bullet in the base of the bullet over here this H so how on Earth did this bullet break into three parts right and somehow the base of the bullet elevated itself or de elevated itself and
went around the middle of the bullet and travel forward right on the tail of the front of the bullet and landed in the front's feet and so I I had this all planned out how I wanted the animation and everything you know and labeling of the second Magic Bullet you know everybody knows about the first Magic Bullet but how many people know about the second Magic Bullet now and here's my question how the hell can you have two Magic Bullets in 6 seconds in the same murder case that's ridiculous that'
s ridiculous let me ask you something about the Connelly shooting with trajectory same thing you're talking about nobody ever gets into the fact that when you get rid of the Magic Bullet take it off the table and say it's crazy crap who and what shoots Connelly well it all it all depends on how many bullets you think no no forget about just think about Connelly sitting there like this and a bullet comes almost at a 45° angle 5 in above right here below his shoulder line comes out 13 in below in
the front in an angle about 45° almost straight down into the thigh where is that shot from in your humble opinion nobody ever discusses this I've been obsessed with this for a long time Jim and I need okay so the trajectory is at it's 45 to 50° no no I'm talking about right the left okay okay so that would have to be this it goes across it goes across here okay right uh and then but it has to be a second bullet to hit his thigh no no no no what Doan it's one bullet well are you trying to be fun
ny no I'm not being funny at all it's a bullet that goes in here comes out 13 Ines goes through what about this go ahead well you're supposed to believe that it smashed his wrist right okay which is as Sil likes to say is one of the hardest uh bones in the body yeah all right and then somehow it goes this way all right unless you you're Dale Myers and you believe his hand was over here but I don't believe his hand was so he's still carrying his STS and hat there okay and then it so it has to be
more than one bullet see you're you're saying he's hit by two bullets yes okay all right that's an interesting answer yeah well how many bullets do you think were fired oh that I don't know that's a good question that is a very good question I I would say at least five or six yeah I was always think of five or six yeah yeah I don't oh okay so we have enough material on JY or well I don't know how much Point time you have there we have 95 minutes on him okay that's a huge chunk of 95 minutes alre
ady we we're going to do 5 minutes Jim what is all this about I didn't know you knew all this stuff okay so I'm going to have to raise my rate then oh no don't do it's not a minute by minute give ant give one extra oh my God we very rarely give the four I'm going to Morton you go to Morton with those [Music] fins [Music] he
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