Jim and Rob Over-Analyze DUNE 2

well hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Jim and Rob overanalyze movies the live video podcast for people who are looking for a deeper conversation about the films we watch today and today we've got another Banger for you uh Deni ven's latest big screen epic that's right everyone Dune 2 and and uh let's let's just get going here everybody let me get the uh get that out of the way and bring on my co-host with the most the man the myth the legend Mr Jim chaboo how are you doing my [Mu

sic] friend thank you you're not even muted clu bar ncto as they say in space different movie but uh anyhow um Jim we I still I I owe us a see it or skip it on this I have not put it out yet so but we we are not going to do ski see it or skip it for tonight uh is there anything before we get into this flick is there anything anything you uh anything outside of Dune 2 you want wanted to chat about uh well I I've have uh with the cooperation of my wife been watching the documentary shorts that are

up for best OCT Oscar and there's a bunch of there's a bunch of them on YouTube and they're actually really good really very interesting uh I've watched three out of the five now um I'm not sure if the other two are on YouTube but uh yeah The Barber of little Little Rock Island in between and was the oh the last repair shop um and yeah they're all very detailed you know shining a light on certain corners of the world and uh yeah I highly advise uh they're not long if you know maybe maybe don't

watch Forensic Files again and take a look at this one you know and uh yeah you'll be handsomely rewarded they're they're yeah the first three that I've watched are super good uh really interesting so well what I'll do folks is uh Jim and I will work on it and we'll we'll get those pinned on the uh first comment of tonight's show uh and also speaking of pinning somewhere about here I will put the see it or skip it once I finally put it up that was very much our first night's reaction my feelings

Jim have evolved since then okay um that's good I mean that's it's interesting to see the progression I mean yeah yeah no no no I I get it I don't feel like you're patronizing me not at all all right uh yeah let's let's jump into dare I say it the spoiler Zone who that's like a heuning spoiler Zone yeah for different black and white one going have the fire blurs right yes but folks yeah we are going to be tonight we are looking at Dune 2 Denny VES part two of what I suspect will be a three-part

er this is the one where we have Paul a trates forced underground with his fman allies fights both his sworn enemies the Conan and the emperor of the known universe quite the title there a Jim to avenge his father and regain his Noble Birthright uh you comfortable with that that's a that's a reasonable that's a reasonable capture of the flick absolutely yeah um all right I I do want to give an a qualifier to everyone when we're talking about spoiler Zone today you know what just be warmed folks

it's not just about this movie I I will be speculating about what will happen in the third movie vnua said he wants to make a third it'll probably happen uh I'm going to be speculating on that based on my knowledge of Dune Messiah Children of Dune and God emperor of Dune the three the three other books that Frank Herbert wrote as part of this larger Dune narrative the story of araus uh and so yeah if that's not your jam folks time to move along otherwise get ready for the ride and and of course

I say to anyone in the chat uh speaking of which do we have anyone in the chat uh we had a couple I think anyway folks I say yeah you know what chime in and we will uh we'd love to hear what you think um Jim is it a fair capture to say you were a pretty enthusiastic seat uh the night after we watched it I was a more reserved seat I had some problem shall we say that fair assessment yeah yeah yeah um my feelings have evolved they have not gotten more positive although they still haven't I still h

aven't dipped into skip it territory um and I don't don't think I will uh what about you how have your has your opinion changed to this flick since we saw it the night of you know it's funny after watching the that one anytime you comment on something it's like oh I should have watched the first one sooner than I saw the second one and oh I should have watched the original and should have read the book and should have watched josi's duner you know and all the DVD extras on the first whatever why

didn't you study Jim yeah exactly disappointed your teacher sort of go overboard on this kind of stuff but no my my opinion's uh still still the same I I'm quite enthusiastic the trick the trickiness here is that it's a a big water cooler movie I think uh it did huge at the box office my son was all uh and his girlfriend were very interested in uh going to it they went before we did they saw the first show Thursday night uh which was technically opening night and and so you know it's when you s

ay it's hard to actually say skip it to something so big although that didn't you know that didn't get in the way of our Judgment of Avatar the latest Avatar movie and that's a movie that'll come up tonight oh will it okay uh okay anyway sorry go back but having said that you know it's it's nice to see it's nice to have a big hit that everybody that has a certain degree of complexity that so many people go to see I mean you can see how it goes through the cult I was sort of ex uh disappointed th

at there was no reference to it on uh Saturday Night Live this week but you know give it a couple weeks but you know you see little things on Twitter you see you see other things to uh you hear little jokes or references and so it's sort of nice to have that again like a big movie that people coales around uh it whether they like it or or not um yeah that's kind of the fun thing about a blockbuster is that you know the it's water it becomes water cooler talk well much like well Barbie Oppenheime

r and the whole barbin Heimer thing that was one of the funnest chats we had even just saying is it hype what is the deal yeah you know that was a that was a great conversation we had back last summer and there were two interesting films I was less enamored of one as I was of the other um but uh I could understand what you're talking about that cultural Touchstone even if it's only for the season yeah yeah you know uh let let's start I do have a couple of questions Jim sure and I think we talked

about it briefly in the digital green room before we got the show started I would say what was in the novel and in the first movie it's coming of [Music] age I can't would you call it a political thriller maybe not a thriller but there's that kind of political more say slice of like the political Story coming of age yeah vengence and you know the ideas of Destiny you know I think that's sort of the and really the emotional story is what choices does this young man what kind of man is he going t

o be you know is he going to follow that path of vengeance is he going to follow the path of power uh you know and he makes certain choices in the novel uh whereas here I would argue it seems more to me that this is more of a ro moment it's still a Coming of Age th some of those themes some of those uh emotional kind of story ideas you know avenging the father taking your rightful place that sort of stuff is still there but it's very much uh wrapped up in a romance now between him and channy so

ay Pro uh played by Zenia um here's the thing it does make the choice clearer it it becomes more a choice between am I going to follow my mother and her ways or the ways of my communist girlfriend okay or maybe more of a nationalist nationalist revolutionary girlfriend what do you think of that did have I captured that correctly does that Vibe with the way you saw the film or is there an emotional kind of story line there that I'm missing no I I think uh I think it is quite different I remember

reading the book uh as a teenager well a young teenager and it was it was probably a little bit um I was probably a bit young for it I might have been 12 I think and uh well I did get some points you know the the appreciation level is maybe not where it should have been I found the the novel to be uh very cold back when I read it the first time almost you know you go from Reading tolken uh which is sort of you which has its own you know existential qualities uh but they're wrapped up in family a

nd Village and and all that kind of thing and ultimately I think you know friendship and you know these are these are sort of the cornerstones of that story this one is is you know sort of like trust no one is everyone's got an ulterior motive that kind of thing and and everybody's got an agenda and the thing that impressed me and you know later on when I read 1984 too was just the sort of the complete lack of ah Nostalgia is not the right word but that sort of it was it was there was a coldness

to it and uh I really it sounds like a a like I'm being negative but it was actually kind of refreshing because most of the things that we consumed when we were that age had had a sort of a hopefulness and a warmth and that kind of thing but when you read these things they're they're they're pretty cold little books books and well not little but they're pretty c big books and uh and so you know when if you go more into the romance route first of all that that's kind of the traditional Hollywood

rubric uh that you can disguise in a lot of ways uh but it also there's an element that you can latch on to I mean who wasn't you know I was personally Charmed with that sort of Journey in the desert and them sitting on top of the Dune when they think maybe they had their first kiss and uh you know the sort of the talk between them and and you know you said I want to be equal to you and you could sort of see her melt a little bit I you know that was very well handled and and a very human moment

in a very um uh very um I guess a story just filled with conflict so uh yeah I wonder I got to come Circle back to your maybe the the age you read it I I know I certainly I remember when I read uh Dune Messiah the what you could argue is really part three of The Arc of the story of Paul at trates yeah and his what I would argue that's kind of the story of his fall in Paul uh uh in in Dune Messiah I'm wondering if both of us because I read it around the same age I think it was you know one of th

ose books we we passed around or knowledge of around oh you got to read this you got to read that we all kind of ended up reading the same thing uh and maybe tragic Heroes and cautionary tales unless they were super obvious and you mentioned 1984 that was not something if it was in any way subtle that wasn't necessarily something we would pick up on and whereas I think as an adult as I read it you can sort of see where it's going yeah you know you sort of go oh sorry but uh Paul's turning into a

bit of a here over the Arc of the whole story you know that he's getting colder more of a bastard and and not so much yeah that's that's tough thing for a youth to do which circling back I think that could almost answer the question you know why a romance why boil it down to a romance but I got to admit I'm wondering if part of it is is that Hollywood doesn't do tragedy well cuz I don't think we're getting set up for a tragic fall m I don't think this this story ends where Paul looks a little d

ark yeah but you got the you got his his wife his he the the his love the love of his life running away at the end of the film and it's like yeah that's uh that's that's a great hook into the third to the third movie and him chasing he has foreseen it how is that going to play out I I'm I'm yeah I have I I will go see the third movie but I have even more concerns um yeah I'm not sure where there's a question in that Jim no no no it's a good point I mean oh yeah go ahead another just to sort of j

ust elaborate a little bit on it when you when you uh engage in a story you may not be equipped for whether it's because of age or you're not expecting it or you're you know it's from a different part of the world you know these are good things I think is that that the first time I read Dune they would introduce a character and then kill them off I was like what we were I thought we were being set up for this guy to follow him along and and no that didn't happen the same thing with uh you know 1

984 I thought it was quite a thing that uh he wanted his girl you know Winston Smith wanted his girlfriend to be as promiscuous as possible which goes against every American story that I'd ever read up until that point and then you know later on you're watching ing uh Miyazaki animation films and there's an evil witch in The First Act and then she turns good at the end of the First Act and you're like well where does this story go from here so it's these are these are sort of good things and I t

hink it's a it it's interesting to follow so hopefully villanu will will take some of what Herbert laid down and and uh you know will have the courage to sort of uh disregard the notes from 20 20-year-old producers and or whatever and uh yeah because it certainly to me Jim that is one of my let's say my problems with this film um this is the point where he should be on top of it all he's got the girl he's got the power he has the money has the women yeah um and even the choice like it kind of sh

ows him taking on this man of the quizat sok be not so much out of Revenge as much as oh well they've attacked sich tabber I you know what it they'll wipe all the fan out if I don't do something you know that he's taken on this thing that he doesn't want to because of the circumstances whereas yeah it'll it's interesting even though he ends in the in the Noel with all this stuff he's he's he does he's got his wife he's got the wife that he needs to take power but he still has channy he has the f

man he he's Avenged his father he's done it all but all the other people around him are suffering you know his mother is frightened of him uh his mentor sgar has been you know lessened into more of a worshipper cuz now it's like oh my goodness he really is the the Le on all Gabe uh channy is oh I get it whatever you need I'll if I must go yeah and that's like that's the there is the beginning of the fall of a tragic figure the man who and also kind of going to that theme that Herbert wrote about

was beware the charismatic hero mhm that the that a trades is kind of a curse on the freman you know an undeserved curse like yeah I don't know what do you do do you see do you see any hope for that Vision in this film yeah you know how do you end something like that like how do you end a trilogy uh you know trilogies Am I Wrong do they always end up with a medals award or something or or this is why this is so obviously the end this end of part two yeah where if he's more of a classic hero thi

s would be oh it's all looking pretty crappy think the end of uh the end of um oh you know that movie evolves wars in the stars the end of Empire Strikes Back where he gets this shocking information he's lost a body part yeah yeah his his friends have been scattered to the Four Winds everything just yeah and that's the you know that's that's the moment where All Is Lost and what are we going to do whereas at the end of dun the novel and we we kind of have that here if it's like the oh no you see

all the problems but he has everything yeah like that's that he is Victorious but there are problems um and it is so important I think for a tragic for for that tragic one that all that they have maximum agency and I think in this film a lot of his agency isn't there it's the the fremen are kind of portrayed as these fundamentalist bumpkins weak easily easy to manipulate uh the good Fighters good Fighters you know great cannon fodder you know uh that his it's the circumstances his his scheming

mother is the one that puts him in this terrible position to make this choice where you know that that does not make a tragic hero that makes oh the mother of the villain like really as you said in the theater yeah yeah I mean folks this is only a paraphrase of Jim in the theater mother-in-laws that's great jany I can't believe may ask how I ended up here but uh and then I saw I saw a piece online I didn't read it I just sort of skimmed it a little bit but the scene that Frank Herbert wanted in

both movies and it was some sort of dinner scene I thought oh God no I can't imagine you know if there's a dinner scene in a movie it's not going to you know probably go very well um and and this one was would be very tense you know it would ratchet up the tension even even more but uh yeah you know I I don't know compare it to other sort of multi movie franchises and and you have to think of how would you like literally how would you end it would you end it like you know almost like a Shakespea

re play or you know they like to end on a a sign of hope hopefulness uh unless you at something like don't look up or which is a singular sing you know Standalone movie but this is the thing it does end on a sign of Hope channy runs away so although Paul may be not the man that she dreamed of there's there's this idea that oh he can become if he chases after oh baby baby please forgive me there's a scene where I think is lame run through the the Dune airport before she gets on her flight who kno

ws maybe she becomes part of an internal resistance fighting him ah you weren't the man I fell in love with which I got to admit it's like that takes away something first of all it it again it reduces the central Hero by kind of taking away agency you know um that is to say and this is oh this comes back to my question the first question I thought of Jim I mean notwithstanding her remarkable performance a lot of that comes down to she was given stuff to do and stuff to work with and I'm wonderin

g if giving her that stuff to do and stuff to work with did it actually help the story you know the one thing I'll say is that when there was the big scene when Paul is sort of finally addressing everyone in in that big cavern uh and and sort of rallying the TR when they want them to kill stillar because they have their rules and their way yeah yeah and you're not allowed to speak unless you're you know some kind of leader and that kind of thing and she she sort of blurts out you know like this

is BS and it normally in a role like that if somebody's sort of outs you run the danger of making them seem sort of just like an irritating you know outspoken but she wasn't like she fully believed in it like she came across as genuinely thinking like being not just a devil's advocate but maybe the the you know the dangerous position of being the conscience of the group you know which which never ends well for the conscience of the group see Walking Dead the but uh you you know it's sort of a gr

eat moment for her I think in lesser hands you know written in a c different way it might come across as as more of a sort of a yeah not a great moment but it was you know James broland drags her down uh gry H drag her down and says know nothing in the text in the original novel but I was like oh this is interesting I would like to see these two kind of and I suspect they'll more of that in part three yeah um at least I hope so don't set that up because that's another thing I I find irritating i

s it's like I feel it's like oh that's setting it up for the next movie it's not for our benefit now that is strictly hey I've put that there so that when I use it in another movie it's like oh my goodness this is a check off's gun check off didn't say you third movie use in your fourth book like save that for the sequel Czech off's Lethal Weapon nail [Laughter] gun hey do we have any nails for this gun oh the shipment just came in yeah I hope that doesn't play a role later the next movie yeah e

xactly um I but this is the thing so is is the story changing that much you know does she become Paul's enemy is that what they're setting up here yeah yeah you know um and and again it's like it's like well that's not what is Paul then you know what because it's you can't even his whole Revenge thing like at the early in the movie says well I believe in Revenge and whereas his mother remember the schemer like there's a lot of contradictory and I don't mean it in a good way a lot of contradictor

y messages and signals from the some of these characters well your father didn't believe in that well I do and then later on but then all of a sudden he's not talking Revenge at all and then all of a sudden he's vengeful and it's like yeah and this is these characters are either comically one note and I'd say the Jessica lady Jessica is comically one note for most of the movie you know the scheming Benny jesser the weird mother of the baby that never gets birthed um the the Mother-in-law you kno

w but she doesn't and I I was thinking about another movie almost or maybe even longer Lawrence of Arabia where all those characters except for him you know uh maybe Omar sharif's character you know you could almost say is the the bro love or you know some people when they've you know they've interpreted that as a you know a homerotic relationship uh Omar sharif's character with uh with Peter OU's character but he has a an arc uh to a degree within those films um but Lawrence drives that bus com

pletely everyone else is kind of a one note but they all feel real they all feel like they have inner they they don't have any Arc but they feel like real people whereas here some of these folks it's like I I'm having a hard time believing you I you know what if you want to keep Jessica a one note you know kind of villain well pick something is she a villain does she become a villain does she is she the protective mother who fears her I don't know like you know I I and I think there are a number

of characters like this stillar every every character except and this is why I come back to channy every character in this film seems less except for her and uh Baron har Conan you know otherwise it's like I yeah they're not yeah if you didn't have have stillar in this flick would you have noticed I mean Javier bardam's a remarkable player but did he actually have enough to do was he enough of his own man I think he was the voice of Faith you know for instance for him and I and I think he he wa

s the the one character that was able to bring some some humor humor to the proceedings it's not a big you know chuckle Fest or anything like that but he you know gave it some shading I I thought uh and some much needed relief but uh and and was able to sort of you know he was he was kind of the the conduit between Paul and the rest of them you know and he would say you know just do you know so I think he did have a role um now are you I would agree with you I think it's a lot less you think so

it could have been like yeah I mean I and a character who should have had an arc yeah you know it it he becomes too trusting and too hooked into the the the prophecy of the lisan AL Gabe too quickly and almost over in in a way overnight well I think it's kind ofish strictly to show a contrast to chenny and her nationalist friends yeah you know I I think one aspect of the the stillar character is that he wanted it so badly that he just he was all in once he saw the first few signs I mean they eve

n sort of joke about it a little bit but it makes and that's the thing though I think that character makes it less but they had to make him less to make channy more and Jessica has to be more of a villain so chny can be you know and it's like I'm not sure this makes for a good movie I let's talk about another epic Romance the Titanic another long and although Billy Zayn Billy Zayn ain't stellen scars guard although I want to walk that back a little bit Jim that may be unfair to Billy Zayn like I

could act a quarter as as well as he is uh as he does and we don't know how Cameron directed him and everything but probably the only cartoony character in that movie everyone even if they're the mother's kind of a nasty piece of work and also a whole bunch of one note characters including the lover she's really the only one with an arc on the Titanic and yet you know they all seem full and real you know again I I think those big those weird switches that oh he's he's the cynical I don't know a

bout you Outsiders to oh I believe in him well it makes him less he's not critical anymore and this is a guy who leads people and he's just oh you kids don't understand I heard three things I wanted to hear it's like yeah um you know and I wonder if some of that is also to exploit our a a a western a Westerner idea of fundamentalists especially when we put them in brown skin yeah you know like that was very sakes they talked about them more than they showed them they they kept on saying the word

f fundamentalist I thought oh they're going to set it up they're going to set up they're going to set up a big meeting between him and the leaders of the South or something to that effect yeah so that we are with zindia yeah like again it's that making less and here's one thing now I've read the I've I've Revisited Dune more than once so I one of the things so I really appreciate about Herbert's writing especially about the freman which is why at trates not just the mother exploiting them as we

ak fools but that uh that that they really are a curse this outlaw or a curse on these people is that Herbert he I suspect he was an atheist you know you know he very very anthropological in his approach and sociological in his approach as he describes this bigger world and these people specifically that said he seemed to really respect respect them and you know in in a way a lot of of people he researched uh you know indigenous folks of the Pacific Northwest of the United States uh you can cert

ainly see a lot of references to uh betwin yeah you know a bwin world view and a bwin life um although it may have had more to do with the never mind the BNS but uh the people of the Arabian Peninsula but you know you have all these things going on here but fundamentally Herbert really had respect for them and so in the book what you find are the preman they were vulnerable to the uh they were only vulnerable it's a hole in their swing let's say it's a vulnerability they have not because they're

bumpkins who you know are suckers for Superstition uh but that they're so they were so finally attuned to their environment cuz that book has a lot of themes about the environment that you don't really see in this movie and in the previous movie and I doubt we'll see it in the third movie you know it's almost a yeah yeah yeah it's hot here um whereas in the book it really tries to draw that this culture is totally perfectly calibrated to this environment and the atres from the get-go want to ex

ploit it the Duke did desert power uh you know they saw it as a we will we were given this thief and we will we will be nice to the chattle the attached peasants of this thing the emperor gave us but it's the same thing you know it's the har Conan's but nicer you know and by doing what VNV did you don't get that feeling at all I I don't think he respects them except that they're good Fighters you know yeah you know I think part of the thing here is there's and I may be off base with this a bit b

ut I no I you may be able to get a lot more complexity out of a book and you know if you remember Dune was super long it was the version we had was in like on that not quite that onion skin that they have in Bibles but it was like and it was very dense it was almost like the was called cheap yeah well it was it seemed to be a different quality paper I thought I might have one right here behind me in this mess but uh you know it was it it it was a a thick book and I think when you're talking abou

t Cinema you can often and you probably don't and I wouldn't take the time to do it it's almost like sentence diagramming if you remember that it's almost like temporal diagramming you don't have a lot of maybe enough time to to get into things and I'm not making excuses for it I just think that there's a level of complexity that you don't necessarily have that you do in writing I and I'll offer you this example in Lord of the Rings the first movie um you know you you Boromir is a bit of a [ __ 

] like he's kind of whining and he's got concerns and he's he's you know it's not that he's a bad man but he's sort of hasty and he's given over to his temper and he's he's uh just not so so much of a team player perhaps in the extended version there's one scene one scene where he's training the Hobbits to to fight and to use weaponry and and that kind of thing and that one scene and it's about a minute long completely humanizes him like it changes the tone and this might be the work of the acto

rs or whatever it's very it's brief but not it's not it's not like an fast edit uh and it completely changes your sort of understanding and appreciation of Boromir which is the character that he played sha Bean um and and it makes his his ultimate spoiler alert death uh a lot more tragic uh because because he was on side he was on board but that earlier cut the theatrical cut made it seem like he was kind of the cranky guy of the group and he wasn't really a for the ride and and uh you know that

so I think you know if we were given some sort of Extended Cut which we're still waiting for the Napoleon this hour and two and 3/4 hour movie needs well same thing but that same thing with Lord of the Rings the the theatrical release was just under three hours and the extras were another 20 minutes I think so came out to about 320 but even that even that little scene changed totally your appreciation for Bor or at least mine for Bor I hear what you're saying but to push back on two levels one

yeah the book's a thick book but we've had over five hours of film now you know for this big thick book and I go to Lawrence of Arabia which although not a perfect film and a big long movie but manages to capture quite a bit of the Nuance of the struggle of the Arabs for Independence the mations between a let's call it a you know already an Empire that still looked big but was shrinking their arrogance the way they screw him at the end uh even Lawrence is he's got all these high-minded Ed s and

he wants to be an adventurer and he's looking for Glory but he respects these people and he's so Noble and then after a while it's like oh he really likes killing you know he's he's he it's on the one hand they're oh he went um you know he's gone you know um but really what he's gone is killer you know and all these promises he's made amount to nothing MH even as Ali Guinness is the great king king foud or King sa King F King F Arabia uh yeah it's been a while in some great western filmm film ma

king whitewashing but at least he's like I always knew you guys were going to screw us you know you are naive you know that he grows up and he's less and it's this great great moment and in the end he just dies in a crappy motorcycle accident sorry everyone spoilers yeah don't read the Wikipedia [Laughter] page uh and that's all covered in one movie and that was a war over several years yeah I mean you make your choices I mean a couple things is that you're you especially when doing okay so it t

he nice thing about movies movies based on books is that they're interpretations and they're also a little bit of a sort of a a different kind of a product as well but when you when when Peter Jackson did Lord of the Rings it was like you know B this besides the the 70s half finished animation movie that we had in in back in the day early 70 late 7s rotoscoping yeah yeah is that Don Bluth Don Bluth I'll look it up you you continue but you know you have that and then you have you have an interpre

tation uh necessarily because it's not going to come out the same as the book does obviously so here you have you know David Lynch and then you have that series from about 20 years ago and now you have Denny vill news version you have to make choices and also you know I have to think there's massive as we've come to appreciate Studio interference on virtually every level virtually version Baki yeah but you have Studio interference on almost every level of every movie and uh you know it's you kno

w the old the old story that's amazing that anything gets made but you know I uh so I'm not I'm not disagreeing with you yeah the movie is not as nuanced as it maybe could be or um as the books are necessarily but um yeah I I I'd be sort of interested to be a fly on the wall in some of those meetings there it's a big thing that they want to have it's a big production expensive production that they want to have a big hit out of so I I I don't know what interference he ran into along the way but u

h you know and that's something you and I have talked about before uh although I got to admit I kind of tilting on this one I know I was being factious when we went into to the theater I'm like do everyone saying it's great just because it's Denny vnu and oh that's a dang everyone saying it's great so therefore it must be great so everyone comes out going boy this is great um show your work well I mean I I I got to admit Jim I'm still like it's still above average you know not as much not even a

s much above average as I thought the other night like it you know it's it's my feelings on this are coming back to the mean let's say uh and who knows some of the things even some of the things we've talked about I could see where the story could go in what will be the third act and we could really see that vnu has always had his eye on the tragic ball and all will come for not as it should for you know an edus es uh or a hamlet esque player like like Paul atres MH or even the uh green the king

and the Green Knight the young man who goes and comes back and conquers and still dies still dies to death of of violence um but as far as adaptations go I'm wondering if some of it is that need to satisfy the means of the world if you look at now mind you I got to admit though at times I'm like oh you would have been you could have saved half an hour you managed to drag something out into multiple scenes that could have been dealt with in one scene and you would have had a lot of time to do a

lot of other stuff spending time with these characters in a different way to show us different aspects of them or I don't know there's things that could have been done here that even the book went Herbert went oh I can kill that in the scene I don't need to spend the next four chapters on that I could do it in one um but that said then if you're going to do an adaptation Go full kubric you could almost argue that The Shining is hated by the writer but wow now that was an adaptation almost like I

am inspired by this book now I'll make my movie yes oh yeah and sort of you know I sort of I'm on more on Ker's side with that one is just that how can you not why would you know the whole carbon copy thing is is kind of well and this is this is maybe my biggest beef it's not like vill n is taking the bull by THS I'm gonna make my movie MH I think he's like well I'm going to make the fans happy but I'm also GNA put my interpretation and the studio says Hey zandia needs more time because she loo

ks so great on camera and and and well that becomes I think what this is 2 hours and 45 minutes of well above average here's your B minus C+ um because I I I got to admit I think of Avatar Jim you know not Avatar 2 but the original Avatar that was a tighter movie yeah but the only reason people started talking about it again was that there was plans for Avatar 2 do you think in 10 years especially if there's no Dune 3 or let's say there's a Dune 3 actually you know what let's say there's no Dune

3 okay do you think in 10 years we'll we'll still be talking about this movie like some of the other films we've mentioned The Shining yeah Lawrence of Arabia Lord of the Rings I I I don't know if it's or is this more like The Hobbit yeah know that's a good question um I I I don't you know I don't think it's sort of David lean territory necessarily but I I think I I think it'll be talked about you know the the thing that that keeps coming back to me is the The Cinematic experience and uh it was

it was quite a cinematic experience there there was a lot of the the the pieces that had to deliver delivered so the first ride on the on the the worm sandworm yeah uh the first um you know theu that film is so good at yeah the big battle at the end the speech that he gives using a fake language is pretty moving you know as term in terms of fake language speeches that I've seen uh that Paul gives um and even talking about when he's challenging the Community when he yeah he's talking to everyone

and he the big pushes it over the edge it's my rules yeah yeah and and the the other you know it starts off with a you know them trying to take down a a spice mining machine and and uh and you know that's an exciting sequence and and very well filmed and and I think in terms of the Cinematic experience let's not forget that that's why you know people aren't watching it right now on home video they're watching it in the theater um that I think that and to the tune of you know 90 million I think

uh bucks this this uh weekend I think that's only going to grow um but um I think that's what the takeaway from this and I I think people are really inspired by that cinematic experience initially which makes the move to to streaming so kind of dragic but this one with the sound and the and the sort of the visuals and that sort of thing it certainly is it's no Napoleon know I I it maintained my Eng engagement for the most part yeah you know there were some times I'm like oh this is uh oh wait th

at's interesting yeah I mean I was pretty engaged uh through uh through it all uh and yeah and and I think they delivered a lot of times these set pieces you know they they're you know you know where it's heading right you know he's got to ride the worm and he's got to you know you know he's going to fight with fade rotha and and and you're just like H I wonder if they're GNA and then they I think they all delivered uh all all the points that they that raes that raises another question is some o

f my actually one of the biggest challenges for anyone and I'm not I am not not trying to say this is bad making a movie is hard making a big ass movie like this an order of magnitude harder yeah keeping all these Stars managing them getting the best you can out of them all that stuff hard uh vnu is demonstrated through some truly great and movies that stick with me now thinking sakario we covered it last uh December uh uh uh December 6 um uh poly Technic poly Technic thank you you know demonstr

ated an ability to you know just to tell a story in film which is different than oh let me tell you what happened last week that said there is a challenge when something's already been done in film multiple times actually because there was that scii miniseries that was made uh what did you see it I years I I I I have you know the books the multiple books the 84 movie which you know I'll I'll pin here somewhere you and I we were that did not hold up no no uh the Navigator are cool but the it has

that extra weight you know just that other stuff that it's taking on it's kind of like a thing I'm developing for a short I'll eventually get out the door but this idea of let's say Star Wars the first one there's a film that travels like a travels carryon it's super light it's light on its feet but because it doesn't have any expectations you come to these later sequels oh woof M woof everyone uh but part of that is just that weight of expectations they are no longer traveling carryon it's not

just a shoulder bag and off I go adventures I'll book a hotel when I get there it is no we're going to go to this resort we're going to have this food I've already ordered half of it and a ton of check baggage why are you carrying that you know you can buy that there oh I don't know spend half their time in theing airport and I think that's part of this film's problem there's a lot of stuff it drags into the theater with it anyway yeah Jim before we get into final thoughts I could ramble on abou

t this film more I kind of like to uh but I mean well first of all did you have anything Jim did you have anything to ask of uh of our good friend of our good friend Luke Skywalker um yeah what did you think of it Luke Pi up some power I should make it a more complicated question well it's too bad now the the question was answered sorry off great great way to halfway through the gang to go oh wait I'll be cutting that out folks okay take care of it and post we are we are going to start a new thi

ng though now Jim do you have a question or two for Denny vnu what is your first question if if you could ask Denny vnu two questions what is your first question I wanted to know how the the uh David Lynch or if the the David Lynch version informed his version at all and if so what uh what did he take from that or what did he Avid uh because of that okay oh great great question uh let me just see my first question Jim would be yeah why Focus On The Love Story what was the thinking there as they

were developing the story him and uh the screenwriters he was working with why did he I want to know why he kind of shifted it and put invested so much in the Love Story uh what was the thinking there what was he hoping to draw out in that love story in that romance tragic it should be that uh that uh that that that he changed the direction that way or change the way he wanted to tell the tale that's that's uh that that's my question there all right Mr chaboo what's your next question for Mr Den

ny VN the director ctor the writer director of Dune 2 well I suspect he may be lowballing the uh the three the trilogy thing I'm wondering if he really expects it just to end at three maybe take it take it a little bit further what is the you know and this would be just between him and me how many movies is he really expecting out of this all you know all things being equal best case scenario okay well that's a that's a that's a great question Jim I I if I can add if I can piggyback on that Jim

I recommend only three just for should have it like Saturday afternoon cereal just keep going do like number 37 number 38 for the love of God could you just say WP it up I've told our tale move along now go make up some other story for Paul died three movies [Laughter] ago all right for me Jim uh my next question uh how how did I get it here all right oh yes and this is something I wanted to ask you and anyone stumbles across this in the replay feel free to comment down was where were you Mr VNV

making an allegory here or an analogy you know especially around the politics the internal politics of the freman you know is this allegorical are you you know drawing on specific our world examples or is it more an analogy or is it a bit of both that's that's what I that Jim is what I would like to know so there's our first I'll be editing these putting them up on social media and see if we can't bait Mr V sure or perhaps the internet goes well he answered all those questions in this interview

losers yeah and I'm okay with that too I wonder if jelly duck has any questions for Denny venu there oh is jelly duck jelly duck is in the house with us yes hello man oh my goodness jelly du [Music] F and he caught the Funko Pop action there so that's a jelly duck do you have a question for Luke what's your question for Luke jelly duck anything oh we should ask Jelly duck does this closely resemble life in uh s Sandy environment uh I I got to admit and I mean Kuwait is far from Egypt but when t

hey talked about Jim when they talked about it being in the South um you know the fundamentalists in the South that resembles in in a a grossly overs simplistic way the Muslim politics of some of the Muslim politics of Egypt you know you know Cairo the Metropolitan the Cosmopolitan North you know connected to you the Mediterranean closer connected to the Mediterranean whereas you go down down south Aswan that area lot more uh you know a lot more religiosity you know um yeah all right I think we

do have a question oh ask him if if he W is ask him if he was a father well you know what let's uh Jim I think that's a great question yes yeah ask him if he is a father just a sec here all right randomizer what do we got I have a very bad feeling about this apparently Jim Luke has a very bad bad feeling about that I imagine I imagine jelly duck did better than me the Luke cutaway too so thank you very much jelly duck 100 uh appreciate you popping in I I would love to oh who's this Jesse and Ebo

ny five movies to include the children oh we do another commenter in oh hello uh Jesse and Ebony five movies so correct me if I'm wrong so what you're looking for is to make sure that uh Dune Messiah Children of Dune and God emperor of Dune are covered or just uh just the the Dune Messiah and Children of Dune it would be interesting to know but thanks for thanks for chiming in on that yeah hi um yeah and of course uh because we got a couple of folks in in the chat one more Shameless plug for a l

ike a subscribe and let's ring that Bell together Jim there we go we have practical effects Jesse and Ebony like John Wick in here hey you know what let's Jesse and Ebony I don't have an air horn there you go there we [Laughter] go uh uh thinking up to Children of Doom so yeah which I think would be the logical kind of wrapup of Paul tradies total like I I think for all intents and purposes he's he is done as a major narrative Force at the end of U at the end of Dune Messiah but it's really Chil

dren of Dune that you know the his second son takes over you know so yeah thank you very much for that Jim I think it is time time to get into final thoughts sure uh What uh what else would would you like to add well there's two things three things number one uh they refer to Kangaroo Mice so I'm wondering uh interesting that kangaroo has made the loop leap to Dune um I would say that um first of all if it's because it's such a cool word yeah yeah that's true when when Florence Pew said it I was

like what it's like I think they mentioned sandwich in Star Wars or something like that like what um but a little bit of appreciation for Frank Herbert uh he uh like many years ago and there's still like you know this book that I I don't even know what year it came out and and this 2024 March of 2024 millions of people are going to see it still I mean it's still having an effect I don't know if you've ever read anything else by him but I remember being really taken by plag the white plague yeah

yeah and so much so that when I went to Europe as a younger man with more hair um I uh I was in Dublin because a lot of that takes place no matter how much you ate yes yes yeah that's true um but uh I remember going to scenes the book has a lot of it sort of unravels in Dublin so I remember being Saints I think it's St Stevens green and going to those places you know you're there anyway but thinking oh this is where white plague sort of I think it's where he the the the the antagonist places th

e first few um pellets or or whatever he does to to poison the population uh the other thing too I want to say is I just realized that as we were talking here and what one of the things that I hate is when they try to make a a ballsy decision in movies and usually it involves some sort of death it it's you know Peter Parker chasing the guy who shot Uncle Ben and the guy you know falling to his death or something you know in earlier iterations and it's nothing that Peter Parker did cuz the hero c

an't do that kind of thing and again guys spoiler alert if you missed the spoiler alert earlier um in this one uh he just walks up to and kills hekinan it's none of this the baron he it's none of this sort of like apologetic hekinan doesn't trip down the stairs he just goes up and he says in in a really sweet moment hi grandfather and then and then step and in the first movie way better death for him and a way better ending scene where he's kind of reduced and yeah no I I I agree with you for me

Jim I'm GNA talk about the cinematography I I agree with you 95% of it but I got to admit the IMAX that tall frame if you're too too close and there's a great moment where Jessica is talking to her belly and there are some of the weak the weak easily easy to manipulate oh my goodness I just I I'll never get over that I think that's a huge knock on this film that that kind of anti-religiosity that anti-faith you know it's not I'm no believer and I'm like kind of I'm I'm insulted on behalf of the

se folks anyway uh there's that but part of the problem is is because it's such a close scene and it's so tall I feel like I'm watching a big television I get why it's IMAX and I get why that's such a big thing but I got to admit I'm like there is some where it's like H did we need that the very opening scene Jen is another one where it's like oh I could just walk out on those sounds but I still feel like I'm I'm watching Big television like cuz it's it's everything's a little too close like it'

s it's it's too close and that may have been part of the problem I had with the final uh scene the key final scene of the first movie it it just loses some impact it's not wide enough whereas you know what you think about Omar Sherif coming up to that well and how long it takes and the T that's built and how far everything seems and all of a sudden the you know you're close and the guide because he's part of the wrong tribe and he gets shot again spoiler alerts folks for a movie that came out in

the 60s um that just feels even then when it's close it feels like it should be close I don't feel like I'm watching TV when it's big and wide it feels big and wide that would be there's my Qui about iMac cinematography um you should there it's a super complicated process there was an article on on line how Greg Frasier I believe is the the cinematographer and yeah it just it's like I sort of don't get it but it's it's uh kind of an interesting process but anyway yeah yeah well it but that's th

e thing it's like you know what what's you know over complicating something mhm you know um and then I think what a tech guy over complicating something s go ahead you think uh I do I even if he hits the even if he sticks the landing on this one I'll still look at this Trilogy as one of those things where it's like well there's that was pretty good missed opportunity cuz it like I've I've referred to a number of films that manag to do it better you know that manage to either give a long time and

you feel like you're in a long adventure like this is one of those ones where much like the that IMAX thing I think TimeWise it's still under nine months it's almost like an action it's a weird sort of more action than adventure and it's like you have all the money and all the screen time time why not have it over a few years you've got that time you can do that the Alia the little sister should have been born we should have seen that you know we that should have happened um yeah we could have

taken more in Universe in film time to tell this story especially since they got so much of it you know yeah yeah why not make more Lawrence of Arabia uh because let's say go to The Other Extreme you know was only what a week 10 days two weeks tops for the Titanic and an epic 3ish hours uh yeah they're I feel like they're telling multiple stories R here it's I don't know everything just seemed last sort of off-kilter right so too tall and too short and yeah I think this is an above average film

but not a great film 10 years from now especially if there's no Dune 3 you'll be talking about it in the well it was better than the first one hey that did get made you know MH oh well uh oh we got another oh Jesse and Ebony chime in with average attention average audience attention at um span equals money oh yeah I the studio did did dialed in the math um but you know what takes the same amount of effort to make an average movie as it does to make an amazing movie make an amazing movie I think

I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth there but heck you know what it's my money I get to demand amazing and when I don't I think we should we should discount it I think we we should just compare every movie to Lawrence of Arabia what was better dude wears my car or Lawrence of Arabia well I think Lawrence of Arabia and Titanic being an epic romance like both two big epic movies one more political yes and tragic whereas another one I wouldn't call that a tragic romance it ends on such an upn

ote and yeah those chefs kiss epic movies that took their time but achieved everything whereas this same thing I don't think it's achieved that level you know it's not it's it's it's above average but it's not a great film um jelly duck 100 I was thinking about I need to watch June 1984 I know the trailer looks interesting oh jelly duck you know what I don't know what do you think Jim we we felt it didn't hold up that said I funny I just watched the tra trailer just before we got on and and uh i

t's you know it's it's a little bit you it's got its own qualities it's a little bit dated the uh Navigators are super weird and cool though and uh it's kind of neat to see Pat Stewart as as gurnie you know again it's a different interpretation and you have different actors interpreting different roles so it's you know it's never a waste of time to to watch something like that it's just uh yeah don't don't go in expecting uh you know something amazing but it's it's it's an interesting it's an in

teresting exercise to to watch the old one you know what jelly duck I wish I could find it here there is like a fan edit of the first movie I can't you're just gonna have to you're gonna have to do some Googling uh but there's a fan edit of the first movie and I was I was on on Twitter somebody was going you know I watched that recently and I like it better not better than Dune 2 but better than the Lynch's outing but Lynch you know yeah a ton of Studio interference oh yeah um all right uh folks

thank you all very much for uh coming out uh well once again thank you jelly duck thank you uh uh Jesse and Ebony appreciate you chiming in on the chat and uh nice meet you love to for those who watch it on replay would love to hear more of what you have to say you know of course please like And subscribe please share with friends and uh somewhere whoops over Here YouTube will tell you what you what else you should watch all right every