Let Democracy Decide: Poland's Sikorski on Ukraine Aid

NATION'S CAPITAL TOMORROW, I BELIEVE. I JUST WONDER YOUR VIEW, BEFORE YOU START MEETING WITH OFFICIALS TO DELIVER YOUR MESSAGE. DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE U.S. HAS LET YOU DOWN IN THIS CASE, OR DO YOU HAVE PATIENCE FOR THIS PROCESS TO SLOWLY UNFOLD? FOREIGN MIN. SIKORSKI: WE RESPECT THE RULES OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO APPEAL TO SPEAKER JOHNSON, AS A FORMER SPEAKER MYSELF, AND AS THE FOREIGN MINISTER OF POLAND, AND ON BEHALF OF ALL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION, IN FACT. PLEASE LET DEMOCRACY D

ECIDE THIS ISSUE. PLEASE ALLOW THIS UKRAINE SUPPLEMENTAL TO GO TO A VOTE. BECAUSE OTHERWISE, IF YOU PRECLUDE YOUR COMMANDER IN CHIEF FROM DOING WHAT HE WANTS TO DO, WHICH IS TO HELP UKRAINE DEFEND ITSELF, U.S. CREDIBILITY WILL BE DAMAGED. JOE: WE HEAR FROM A NUMBER OF LAWMAKERS WHO RECEIVED THAT MESSAGE AT THE MUNICH SECURITY CONFERENCE. FOREIGN MIN. SIKORSKI: I WAS THERE. JOE: YOU WERE INDEED. IF THIS BILL DOES NOT GET TO THE FLOOR OF THE U.S. HOUSE, IS THERE A PLAN B FOR EUROPE? FOREIGN MIN. S

IKORSKI: REMEMBER, EUROPE CONTRIBUTES MORE TO UKRAINE THAT THE UNITED STATES. WE HAVE CONTRIBUTED $80 BILLION ROUGHLY AND WE HAVE PASSED ANOTHER 50. THE UKRAINIAN STATE WOULD NOT BE FUNCTIONING WITHOUT US SENDING THEM 1.5 BILLION EUROS PER MONTH. BUT YOU CANNOT FIGHT THE WAR WITH PENSIONS AND EMPLOYEE SALARIES. YOU ACTUALLY NEED SHELLS, EFFECTORS TO THE PATRON MISSILES AND SO ON, AND THOSE COME OVERWHELMINGLY FROM THE UNITED STATES, FROM AMERICAN FACTORIES. AS EUROPE, WE ARE MAKING NEW PURCHASE

ORDERS IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT UKRAINE NEEDS TO DEFEND ITSELF AGAINST THIS RUSSIAN ONSLAUGHT. KAILEY: BUT, MINISTER, EUROPE IS NOT GOING TO DELIVER ITS OWN TARGET OF ONE MILLION SHELLS TO UKRAINE BY MARCH AS PROMISED. THAT IS NOT BEEN DELIVERED. HOW CLOSE IS CLOSE, THOUGH, IF WE ARE TALKING ROUGHLY HALF AND THE TARGET HAS BEEN PUSHED TO THE END OF THE YEAR? I WONDER IF EUROPE IS FEELING UKRAINE, TOO. FOREIGN MIN. SIKORSKI: WE ARE CLOSE. I LITERALLY BEFORE WALKING INTO THIS YOLK RECEIVED A LETT

ER FROM THE HIGH REPRESENTATIVE -- I DON'T WANT TO MISQUOTE HIM, BUT I THINK IT IS AROUND 850,000 SHELLS. WE ARE GIVING UP OUR EUROPEAN INDUSTRY FOR BEING ABLE TO PRODUCE A MILLION SHELLS PER ANNUM. AND THEY WILL START ARRIVING IN QUANTITY TO UKRAINE BY THE END OF THE YEAR. BUT FIRST OF ALL, UKRAINE STILL NEEDS TO SURVIVE TILL THE END OF THE YEAR. SECONDLY, THE RUSSIANS HAVE BEEN RAMPING UP THEIR PRODUCTION EVEN MORE. THEY HAVE GONE ON TO A WAR FOOTING, AND WE ARE STILL ON A PEACETIME BASIS, AND

WE NEED TO GO INTO CRISIS MODE. KAILEY: WELL, SO WOULD YOU THEN SUPPORT A NOTION LIKE ISSUING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF EUROS AND EURO BONDS TO SHORE UP EUROPES'S DEFENSE INDUSTRY? THAT HAS BEEN FLOATED. FOREIGN MIN. SIKORSKI: IT HAS BEEN FLOATED, BUT WE HAVE MORE IMMEDIATE DECISION TO MAKE. 5 BILLION WOULD BE ENOUGH TO SATISFY UKRAINE'S IMMEDIATE NEEDS, AND WE NEED TO PASS THIS URGENTLY. JOE: OUR LISTENERS AND VIEWERS SHOULD KNOW THAT YOU WERE A WAR CORRESPONDENT IN AFGHANISTAN, SOVIET-OCCUPIED

AFGHANISTAN. WE CAN TALK ABOUT POLICY, AND THAT IS WHAT WE LIKE TO DO ON BLOOMBERG, BUT I WANTED TO TELL US WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN ON THE GROUND IN UKRAINE IF THESE SHELLS ARE NOT AVAILABLE, IF THIS MORNING DOESN'T COME FORTH IN A TIMELY MANNER. YOU HAVE SEEN FIRSTHAND, THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THE SOVIET UNION, BUT VLADIMIR PUTIN REMINDS MANY OF US OF THAT TIME. FOREIGN MIN. SIKORSKI: I WAS IN AFGHANISTAN IN THE 1980'S AT A TIME WHEN THE U.S. WAS SUPPORTING THE RESISTANCE. NOT MANY PEOPLE WERE GIVIN

G THE ANTI-SOVIET RESISTANCE A CHANCE TO DEFEAT THE MIGHTY SOVIET UNION. AND YOU KNOW, THEY DID. TODAY MOST PEOPLE SEEM TO ASSUME THAT RUSSIA HAS TO WIN. I DISAGREE. I HAVE BEEN TO THE FRONT LINE WITH UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS DELIVERING PICKUP TRUCKS BEFORE I ASSUMED CURRENT OFFICE. THE SHORTAGE OF ARTILLERY SHELLS MEANS THAT UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS ARE DYING IN GREATER NUMBERS THAN THEY SHOULD BE, BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT THE CLASH IS A DIRECT INFANTRY, SOLDIER-TO-SOLIDER FIGHT. WE CAN SAVE LIVES BY DELIVERI

NG THESE 155 -- JOE: YOU BELIEVE THEY CAN WIN THIS DAVID AND GOLIATH FIGHT FROM WHAT YOU SAW IN AFGHANISTAN? BUT THIS COMES DOWN TO HARDWARE IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING? FOREIGN MIN. SIKORSKI: RUSSIA LOST THE CRIMEAN WAR, RUSSIA LOST THE LESSER JAPANESE WAR.-- AND RUSSIA LOST THE COLD WAR. LOOK, WHEN THE UKRAINIANS ARE FIGHTING FOR THE VERY EXISTENCE OF THEIR COUNTRY, PRESIDENT PUTIN DOESN'T REGARD UKRAINE EVEN AS A NATION. THEY KNOW THAT IF THEY LOSE, THEY WILL BE DEPORTED, THEIR CHILDREN WILL BE ST

OLEN, THEY WILL BE SUBJECTS OF CULTURAL GENOCIDE. WHEREAS THE RUSSIANS ARE FIGHTING WITH THEIR PRISONERS AND RELUCTANT DRAFTEES. BUT YOU STILL CANNOT FIGHT WITH BARE HANDS. WE HAVE PLEDGED TO HELP UKRAINE. THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IN WARTIME MADE AN HISTORIC SPEECH IN KYIV SAYING UKRAINE WILL HAVE AMERICAN SUPPORT WHATEVER IT TAKES. NOW IS THE TIME TO STAY THE COURSE AND DELIVER THE ARMS. KAILEY: MINISTER, IT THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES THAT MADE THOSE REMARKS, BUT HE VE

RY WELL COULD HAVE NO HUNGER BE PRESIDENT -- NO LONGER BE PRESIDENT COME JANUARY OF NEXT YEAR, AND WE HAVE HEARD WHAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT COULD GET A SECOND TERM, DONALD TRUMP, HAS SAID ABOUT NATO COUNTRIES LIKE POLAND, SUGGESTING THAT THESE COUNTRIES ARE NOT PAYING ENOUGH MONEY, RUSSIA CAN DO WHATEVER THE HELL IT WANTS TO THOSE ALLIES. WOULD YOU VIEW POLAND AS LESS SAFE UNDER A POTENTIAL SECOND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION? FOREIGN MIN. SIKORSKI: LOOK, I WON'T INTERFERE WITH YOUR POLITICS, AND POLAND

SPENDS OVER 3% OF GDP ON DEFENSE. ARTICLE FIVE HAS ONLY BEEN INVOKED ONCE SO FAR, AFTER 9/11. WE ALL RALLIED AROUND -- POLAND CENTER BRIGADE TO A TOUGH PROVINCE IN AFGHANISTAN AND WE DIDN'T SEND INVOICE TO WASHINGTON. A MILITARY ALLIANCE IS NOT A NEIGHBORHOOD SECURITY COMPANY. KAILEY: WELL, THAT IS FAIR ENOUGH CAPTORS -- CHARACTERIZATION. AS WE LOOK AHEAD TO WHAT MAY COME AFTER THE ELECTION OR BEFORE THE ELECTION IN NOVEMBER, AS WE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT THE VERY POSSIBLE CHANCE THAT CONGR

ESS DOES NOT PASS ADDITIONAL AID TO UKRAINE, SHOULD THE U.S. BEFORE ELECTION USE FROZEN RUSSIAN ASSETS TO HELP SUPPORT THE CAUSE? IS THAT SOMETHING POLAND WOULD SUPPORT? FOREIGN MIN. SIKORSKI: YES, WE DO, BECAUSE THE AGGRESSOR SHOULD PAY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES AND THE DAMAGE OF THE AGGRESSION. RUSSIA IS NOT GOING TO SEE THIS MORNING ANYWAY. THE G7 HAS SAID THAT THE MONEY WILL NOT BE UNFROZEN UNTIL RUSSIA PAYS REPARATIONS TO UKRAINE. THE ONLY CHOICE IS WHETHER UKRAINE SHOULD GET THIS MONEY AFTER TH

E WAR OR NOW, WHICH NEEDS IT MORE. IN ANSWER TO YOUR EARLIER QUESTION, IF THE SUPPLEMENTAL DOESN'T GO THROUGH AND U.S. ALLIES ARE DISAPPOINTED IN THE IDEA THAT THE UNITED STATES MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO HELP YOU EVEN WHEN THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF WANTS TO HELP YOU, THAT WILL HAVE PROFOUND CONSEQUENCES FOR ALL OF AMERICAN ALLIANCES AROUND THE WORLD. SOME COUNTRIES WILL START HEDGING, AND OTHERS WILL BE CONSIDERING DEVELOPING THEIR OWN NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAMS. KAILEY: AND WE WILL HAVE TO LEAVE IT ON TH

AT NOTE.