Loop Create | Get to Know Gafacci

Hello and welcome back to Loop Create 2022. I'm Juba. I'm a DJ, a radio host, and sometimes documentary and podcast maker. I'm also adding producer to my title as well. And I'm going to be hosting today's Loop Create conversation with Gafacci. And we're going to be looking into the idea of creation and collaboration. And before we get into this conversation, I'm going to have a little teaser to show you a bit more about Gafacci. Enjoy the video. So you've seen the video. So let me introduce Gafa

cci himself. So Gafacci is a visionary and ever evolving artist. He's an experimental... He has an experimental approach to music, which naturally includes electronic influences as well. So his music is very much in his DNA actually. His dad is a former member of the Nigerian Jùjú music group: Chief Commander Ebenezer Obey & His Inter-Reformers Band And Gafacci came across music production himself in senior high school. And since then, his music has evolved and become a globally renowned sound.

So he's particularly recognized for his sound, which is highly influenced by Asorkpor music which is a dance genre which was very popular in Ghana from around the early 1990s to early 2000s. And so from being mainly in the studio, he's also moved very much to the front of the scenes. And he's played sets at renowned festivals such as Sonar Festival in Lisbon, Fusion Festival in Germany, CTM. And also Gafacci has collaborated with artists like Amaarae, Branko, Fever Ray and more. And he's here wi

th me today. - How are you doing, Gafacci? - I'm feeling great. - Good. And before we quickly get to this conversation, I just want to remind everyone to check out the code of conduct just to make sure you guys are all doing the right thing and also make sure that you post questions around the conversation as well. So I'm going to ask a few questions to start off with and then we're going to go to the audience questions afterwards. So, Gafacci, we've established that you're good today. Yeah? Goo

d. All right, so going straight into your music. So you had a really prolific career, and actually in your early days, you were very much more in the sort of mainstream side of Ghanaian music. You're responsible for quite a few pop tunes or Afro-pop tunes, or shall we say. So looking at your time, where you started and where you are now, how was your career, how was your creation process developed? I think right now I feel very confident when I'm making music compared to when I started, which is

obvious. And now I have more reach and I can reach out to people that I want to collaborate with to make music that I want to put out. So I think that's the difference. Now, before-- back then, I would have to wait for an artist to tell me the song is ready. We are putting it out on this date before I know that I have something that's coming out, but now I can make music and just put it out anytime I want. So was it like a conscious move from yourself to establish your own independent creation

process? Yeah, because freedom is very important to me. I think it's important to just about anyone, so right now, where I am right now is a place that I think every true artist want to be at. Yeah, I guess freedom, as you said, is very important to everyone. And in music creation, it's definitely something as well, and looking to music creation, So can you give us or explain to us your creative process? And what do you prioritize when it comes to creating? For me, rhythm, because I feel like my

job as a producer is to deconstruct rhythms. So rhythms that I came upon, that I'm influenced by. I don't like to stick to the normal style of, let's say if we have a traditional style, like Kpanlogo, and it has a pattern in which it goes, like, in which you make this music, I like to deconstruct it, just take elements from it and make it my own. So pretty much that's my process in the beginning when I'm making music, then when I have the foundation of the music, I'll start thinking of things I

can add - sometimes melodies. I don't do too much melodies. It's just a few tracks that I have that is very melodic. But my main focus is to let people be massive in the rhythm bit of the music that I make. So I technically use rhythms like melodies. And you're based in Accra in Ghana, so how does your local surroundings also influence this? It's very important, I think. I've been saying this to most of my friends. Like, I don't see myself living anywhere else apart from Ghana, because I feel l

ike... because I feel like when I go away from Ghana, it's going to be very difficult for me to really keep myself grounded to the sound I'm pushing, because where I live, it's like a metropolis. People know each other. Everyone is from the same place. Everyone have their big family homes. And when you wake up, it's always like, OK, you hear someone saying some wild stuff I can't say on air right now. And I'll be like, okay, this sounds very good. Let me take what they've said and try and use it

in music, like "Trotro", If you hear the song "Trotro", I'm saying stuff like, "from a Accra to Labadi. We ride in Trotro. We have nothing to eat, so we got to go to town and go and hustle and make some money". And this is like the day to day life experience of people. So imagine I was living, and I was kind of detached from the realities of what the average Ghanaian experience is. I don't think I'm going to be able to put all this message in the music. So my environment is very important to me

. I think that's also really interesting because I think we've often discussed this, that as African artists, a lot of the time when it comes to progressing, the default or knee jerk reaction is to want to move away, to come to Europe or North America. And it's important for you to maintain that connection to your home because that's where your inspiration comes from. Yeah, exactly. It's very important for me to stay in Ghana. And actually interesting going off that idea: like, you are very much

an internationally recognized artist, but you're based and you're very firmly keen on staying in Accra. So what has really revolutionized your music practice and your ability to reach out and reach crowds across the globe? -Internet. Internet. I utilize Internet and you've seen me, always behind my computer is like my nightclub, is like my everything. And the internet allows me to connect to people in places where I would need a lot of money to reach these people. So the Internet is the most im

portant thing in my whole setup. Without the Internet, I think now internet is so important to a point that you could actually make music online and you don't even have to have physical DAWs and stuff. So I feel like the internet is becoming a very important tool for a creative and that's something I really like to utilize in my whole setup. The Internet is a really big space. So when you say Internet, what exactly do you mean? Can we dig into more specific spaces on the Internet? The tech... th

e tech in general also consists of the networks... -Like SoundCloud... -The SoundClouds, the Instagrams, the PayPals, the Mailchimps. So like me, I collect a lot of data of people who buy my music because I just want to be connected to the consumer. I don't want to be detached from the consumer, where I don't know who the consumer is. So internet allows me to do stuff like this because imagine back in the day when we had no Internet, you have to do everything by mail and see how cumbersome this

would be. So the Internet makes everything easy. It opens up doors, you can put your music on SoundCloud, on Bandcamp and then reach the world. And kind of going off into the idea of collaboration whilst also looking at creation still, Once again, the Internet has probably opened up a lot of space for you to collaborate around the world. But also when it comes to collaboration, when does that come into your creative process? Would you start thinking about collaboration? I think about collaborati

on when I feel like I'm hitting a roadblock, when I feel like I don't have the skill to execute the stuff that I want to do. So let's say I'm making music and I know my strength is not in creating melodies, I would think about a collaborator who bring the melodic bits to the production that I'm doing. So that's when I try to think about collaborators and when I don't have to do this, I don't invite collaborators. -Interesting. So, when I need you. -No, it's not when I need you. Because as an art

ist, you need to know your limitations too. Because you see a lot of artists who are not good at something, but just because they want to be the guy doing everything, they wouldn't seek collaborations by me. But me, I know that, OK, at this point I can't go any further and I know who is the best person to take it to the next level. Yeah, that's interesting, the idea of knowing your limitations. So what do you learn from collaboration, actually? The process. The process, I learn a lot about mysel

f. Things that I can take in and things that I can't tolerate. And most parts, I think collaboration helps me to shape the way I... Collaboration helps me to get in touch with myself more. I know the things I don't want to do, I know when to stay back and not ask my collaborator for things that within that time they wouldn't be able to give me. I know that, so it's actually like a life skill process, you go through when you are collaborating with an artist. Interesting. Speaking about collaborat

ing with artists, recently, I think someone, DJ Khaled said that if he was working with Drake, he would never say no to him. Like, everything goes with Drake. So interestingly, that kind of sparked conversation around criticizing certain people, and is there anyone you can't criticize? So, from your side, when it comes to collaboration, how do you go around that sort of criticism process? And how important is it to be able to have that dialogue? If I'm hitting you up or contacting you to collabo

rate with me, and I know I've reached my limitations, I trust you enough to invite you to join my creative process. So I can't criticize a lot. I can only give like feedback. "Oh, you did this line here. And I feel like when you add a layer to what you've done, it's going to be more exciting." So that's the fad I could go about. Sometimes I'm like, "Hey, I don't like what you've done, and I think we could work on something different or maybe next time." And I'm very straightforward with things,

I don't beat around the bush. When do you get to a point when you have to say no as an artist, as a collaborator? When you are being asked to do things which within a specific time is not conducive, that's when I say no. -Okay. -And sometimes I say no just because I'm human. Yeah. And so for you, when it comes to collaboration, when do you know when a collaboration is done? That's a good question. Sometimes the collaborator tells me is good and I trust their opinion and I run with it. Sometimes

I feel it. You can't explain this. Music is a feeling. It has to do with feeling more, so... Yeah, like, you feel it? It's not something I can explain. -Okay. It's just an inkling. -Yeah. I think we have a few questions coming. It's beautiful. So I'm going to go to some of the first questions, but I appreciate that actually, because it was really interesting, especially the idea of like you just have a feeling. You can't say when a collaboration is done, it's just there. But from creation to col

laboration, it's been interesting to see how honest you've been about the idea that like, sometimes you just need someone to add something that you can't add to your own song. And that's when collaboration comes into you. Because I guess everyone has their different start points. So we have Joufi Park. Sorry, My eyesight is not that great from over here, even though I'm wearing glasses. So he said, well, they said, "Thanks for the conversation." You're welcome. And how do you collaborate so Gafa

cci, this for you now, how do you collaborate with other music creators who are in different cultural spaces, music spaces and so on? Trust. When I'm collaborating with an artist who is from, let's say, a country where he speaks a language I don't understand, I just have to trust him. Because let's say you are working with a rapper, and a rapper gives like 32 bars and he's saying stuff in foreign language. And it's not like you can translate the vocals. It's not like a text. You just have to go

with the flow. Because there are certain songs I listen to and I don't understand the language, but it feels good right here, like I know, okay, this is good. That's until you get canceled for releasing something that's really offensive. Actually, to add on to that then in that case: you collaborate with people from so many different spaces, Do you have different approaches when actually approaching people from different places? So if you're dealing with another African artist or another Europea

n artist, or someone from, say, India, do you have different ways of approaching different landscapes? I'm honest. I go straight to the point. I tell you what I want. I don't try to do small talk. I go straight to the point in the first point of contact, like, Hey, I like your stuff that you are doing, I think you've heard about me, or maybe if you haven't heard about me, this is the stuff that I'm doing. And yeah, I just try to be very transparent as much as I can. Okay. And I think transparenc

y is a universal language. Yeah, true. Being honest, direct and upfront. Or Google Translate, that's also a universal language these days. I don't trust Google Translate though. Sometimes. Okay, I've got another question. Anonymous, an anonymous person has asked, What are the differences... So I guess going on from this point: What are the differences in making music in Ghana compared to making music when you're in Europe? It's the same. But over here, people are very... in Europe, let's say, pe

ople are very like... But back home, people really can find time to vibe. People could come to the studio the whole day, and just hang with you till you come up with something, especially when you are collaborating and when you are doing it alone, I think Ghana affords me the opportunity to be laid back and not feel like I need to act like I'm busy or something. -In Europe, it's a little bit different. -Yeah, we have that kind of like timing... - Timing stuff. - Being on time, get there early, e

ven. -Yeah, but you need so sometimes you. -You need a bit of vibe. -Exactly. It's the weather. Well, for now. Okay. So another person's asked, "How do you think someone who doesn't know to play an instrument can continue their music production?" Did I ask this question? Can we melt talent and passions in the same pot? Talent and passion? So you have the passion for it, but not necessarily, I guess the actual knowledge. That's what I'm assuming that means. But either way, can you get into music

production if you can't play an instrument? They also said, "I love you, dude." I love you too. Whoever it is, I love you too. So... -I don't play an instrument. -There's your answer. Yeah, I don't play an instrument, but I know all the chords. I know up to the 9th chords, to the 11th, to the 6th. I know the basics, the fundamentals, but I can't play like a normal professional would do. And... I feel like when you are getting into music production, everything is a feeling. There are some points

you get to you can actually tell that this is not for me, I'm not good, you know? And that may sound very harsh, but you get this feeling a lot, and sometimes you don't have to believe it, if you are persistent, you keep going on until you become good. And with regards to the passion and talent thing, I feel like you need a lot of passion to be able to stay talented, because you can be talented and you don't have the passion. And at some point you just feel like you arrive. But when you have the

passion, you are always open to learning, so... putting the two together, I think, is very important. You can't do without the other. I hear what you're saying, because I'm quite a good writer, but I haven't got a passion for it, so I don't do it. See? No, but I get what you mean, like, it's nice to hear that you actually don't play an instrument formally, but you're such an amazing producer. So I'm sure whoever's listening to the answer is going to be very encouraged to think that it's not a b

arrier. This is an interesting one. How do you go about potential confrontations in collaboration? -I'm very confrontational. -Fight it out... Yeah, so if you bring it, I'll match your energy? -Meet fire with fire. Yeah. I'll match your energy I don't pretend on that. Whatever energy you bring, I'll match it. But do you ever feel that if there's confrontation but you know there's a bigger picture, how do you try to almost salvage a situation whilst also dealing with confrontation? I think I've n

ot experienced that too much when it comes to the creative process, because the way I am is I'll come to you and be very transparent. So already what you've added to the music, you know it already. So it's not that you're going to make someone feel uncomfortable to a point they got to say something. And I'm the type that I really know how to take no for an answer sometimes - it's very good, and some people just don't know how to take no for an answer and it gets to a point where it spirals into

something different. But I don't think I've experienced a lot of confrontation during the creative process because I'm very flexible. As much as I like to put my ideas across, I try to be very flexible within some. Because the thing is, I work behind the scenes before I became an artist. So I know how it feels when you are speaking to someone who is like, the main guy with an ego, and I know how to relate to someone who is behind the scenes and nobody notices. So I feel like the way I came up re

ally helps me to neutralize all this stuff that people may term as negative energy -while being in the creative process. -Yeah, you've been there, you've done it, or you've seen a lot, And I guess there's so many different personality types to navigate in the industry that you kind of have to like, almost deal with avoiding confrontation before it even comes along. Someone also asked, this is quite a nice one, a space for an anecdote. So could you share a collaboration that you really enjoyed or

that you're particularly proud of and why? -The one with Amaarae. -Okay. Because... Can you tell us the name of it? The song is called "Like Water" featuring Amaarae. She's like one of the biggest Ghanaian artists now. And I got introduced to her by a friend, and I went to her house and made the beats, and she didn't like it. -And I'd had the beat since 2014. -Wow. I made the melody. I couldn't find the kick drum. I don't know what to do with the music. Then when I go introduced to her, I had t

o make a beat pack. So... So I decided, okay, let me just take this melody to her house, because I'm the type of producer that likes to be that likes to be in the same space and create the music. I don't want to send beat packs. So when I went over to her house, I added drums to the melody but she didn't like-- but she wasn't into the music, and I'm like, okay... I went back home, I did the whole melody again. I rearranged the music, the drums, everything, and I sung the music with my laptop mic

rophone. -You're singing on it? -Yeah. I didn't even know that. Yeah, so I sang the whole thing with the lyrics and everything, and I'm like, okay, let me hit up Amaarae. I'm not sure she's going to like the idea, but let me just try. So I send it to her and I'm like, you know, I need you to sing only four bars of these lyrics and melody. And she was like, Yeah, I'll do it. And she did it, and yeah, the rest is history. It's like one of my biggest songs I've produced. And yeah, it's one of the s

ongs I'm very proud of. I think when I think of you, that song comes up. And also "Banku Dade". Yeah, "Banku Dade" is one of my notable productions, because of how it came about. Definitely. Do you want to go into how it came about? Yeah, if you want to. So "Banku Dade"., what makes it very notable is after I made the music, there was this lady who sells pastries down in the studio, like, beneath the studio where we are. We were on the story building, and I reached out to her, and I'm like, you

know what? I really like the cadence of your voice so can you come up the studio and work with me on the song? She was like, Oh, I've never been in the studio, I don't know what you're talking about. And I'm like, no, I just need you to use your voice. So I invited her to the studio, and I had the lyrics and the melody, and every time, like, you know what, say this, you know... I kind of directed her how to make the music, and she did it, and it was nice. And I invited... Do you know Jackie? -Ja

ckie. Yeah, she's a female singer from Ghana. -No. Yeah, she's like one of the biggest female singers from Ghana. Her manager... -I should. -Yeah, her manager is actually on "Banku Dade". so I invited the manager too because I saw him making video skits, comedy skits, online. I'm like, you speak Ghana very fluently. And he happens to be my... I grew up in the same neighborhood as him, so he kind of gets it. So I also invited him to the studio one evening. He came, we made the music. So these are

guys who are not professionally musicians. And the music ended up on Netflix. So many sick opportunities I had with that music and yeah, it's amazing. -It's very notable. -It's great. I think it also goes back to your earlier point about being very inspired by your surroundings and why you'll always stay in Ghana. And also, this is, I guess, related. I feel like everything's related to what you've been saying, but this question came in from Buns. So Buns said when you collaborate, do you pay so

meone? Do you already have an hourly rate or another way or is there an agreement or a compromise that you come up with that you come up with the collaborator that is mutually beneficial? -So essentially do you pay the people that you work with? -No. No. But how do you, I guess, come up with financial agreements or compromises? I try to be fair. Not I try to be fair. I'm fair. If it's two of us on the publishing, it's a standard rule: 50/50. On the master side, I let the person understand that,

you know what, I'm the one that's going to do most of the heavy lifting, and you know what you brought to the table. And most people don't like to talk about business when they are getting ready to go into the creative process. But me, whilst we are working, I like us to be talking about it too because it's something that is embedded in everybody's brains, right? And nobody wants to talk about it, but people also want to talk about it. So I have a very friendly way of talking about it while we c

reate and by the time we are done creating we already know what's in. I think it all boils down to respect. When I collaborate with people, they know, OK, this guy is not going to come with some something shady and all that. So when it gets to the point of us splitting percentages, it's never a problem. I think it's really important to discuss that stuff. I think it's a sticking point that often can be quite awkward to deal with, especially if you don't deal with it before you started making the

music. So yeah, as you said, it's important to make sure that conversation is ongoing so when you finish making a track, there's no sort of imbalance in what you thought you were going to get out of the process. And this might be slightly similar but we can expand upon it. So how do you credit your collaborators when distributing music you've made together? Yeah, I credit them according to what they did on the song. I don't try to steal people out of their own creation. I don't do that because

it's something I don't take. Like I'm the type that before the music comes out, we've done our paper works, and I think I need to also speak about this. I think in the past few minutes I've been speaking about being like the facilitator but when people are also facilitating the end of the collaboration, when they come to me, I try to tell them hey, this is how I do it and these are my terms, I'm very straightforward with it. And sometimes a person knows... also one thing too I notice about talki

ng the business side when collaborating is, I don't have like a big team, so every collaboration is like a learning process for me. Like they are saying clauses in the contract I may not know of and somebody would bring in, I'll be like, wow, I never knew this existed, so... nice, I think I'll consider this from now on and all that, so... So I think with everything, if you are open to learning, there are so many things you could... you will find better ways to handle situations when it comes to

business. And also as an independent artist, it's a learning process, right? -Yeah. -Every time you do something, you're kind of picking up skills and like learning little tricks as you go along. -Yeah. -And you might be faking it till you make it. -So many times... -People are talking about something and you're like, Yeah yeah, sure. I feel you. I've been there many a time, but that's the way to do it, right? -Yeah. -Fake it till you make it. I 100% agree with lying. Okay. So another question.

This is a bit of a curveball. What are your thoughts on drugs in the studio? Are they a session enhancement or a killer? -Go again. -So what are your thoughts on drugs in the studio? So do they enhance the session or do they kind of like kill the vibe or the creativity? I can't speak for everybody. -Your son will be watching this one day. -Yeah. But what I will say is, whatever works for you, just do it. -Yeah. -Don't kill yourself. -You do you. -Yeah, do you, just don't end up dying. -We don't

want that. -No. Okay, so that's it. You do, you don't die. So do you think there is space in Ghana? And this is from Nana. Do you think there is space in Ghana for producers who try other paths apart from Afrobeat or Afrobeats? E.G., Afro-electro. Afro electro. Like the stuff that I do? I feel like now the world is becoming very open to Ghana. Ghana has been one of the main destinations for places to be in Africa. And people are coming into the country and not everybody wants to experience Afro-

beats. People want to see different-- or they want to have variety. So I think before it used to be very difficult, like myself, nobody understood what I was doing. But now I could see people trying things along the lines of what I've done, and it's expanding gradually. But what challenges do people who want to introduce different sounds into Ghana or Accra, in the music scenes, what challenges do they face? You are not going to get the same love the pop guy will get. And that's like a general r

ule everywhere. Even in Europe where people are into experimental stuff. You are not going to get the same recognition as, let's say, Justin Bieber. So what I say to creatives who are starting out on a very experimental journey, I tell them, hey, don't try and measure your success to the guys who are doing pop music. Because when you do that, it's like, you are not really aware of your niche and what you are very good at. You are just trying to seem like it's cool, but deep down, you really don'

t know what the essence of what you are doing. Are there any ways, especially right now, in the current Ghana Accra, are there any ways that people like that can find a community? Yeah, there are communities coming up now. There's Oracle Radio. It's like a community of creatives who are into alternative stuff. There are guys who are also doing stuff now, and it's growing gradually, gradually it's growing. But yeah, time will tell. Yeah. Sort of diversifying the sound, which is always nice. And o

n diversification, I'm good at this... Someone's asked, what can male producers, male artists in places like Accra or Ghana do to establish, or help establish, more women, and nonbinary producers in the music industry? Maybe not just in Ghana, just in general. What's your opinion on this? I don't have all the facts, but what I would say is when it comes to female stuff, I think when females look to males to find empowerment, it's like playing into the hands of what patriarchy is already. So I fe

el like right now there's the opportunity for women to also step up and a lot of them are stepping up. Like I mentioned Oracle Radio, is founded by a woman. And I mentioned there are spaces that are coming up in Accra and most of them are owned by women, and they have initiative to support women and all that. So that's why I like to see. The man shouldn't be all up in the woman's business like that. So it's like self-organization, but I guess within anything. We also do need men in these spaces

as well. -Yeah yeah... -So as a man, what do you think the male role is in this space? How can you best support us also not dominating and playing into the patriarchy by being the gatekeeper? Be a creative and don't let your hormones decide your decisions. -Set your ego aside. -Yeah, exactly. Okay, cool. So, Her has asked, have you ever dealt with not having the right tools, but yet sharing who you are with the basics? -I feel like, yeah... -Yeah, that's what I'm doing still. That's what I'm doi

ng. I don't have a big team. I work with a few people who believe in certain aspects of things that I do. But yeah, I work with everything, all that I've got. Like my project Tash BNM, I did a whole vocal for, I think, Afro Lofi on my... No, I mixed the whole project on ear candy earbuds-- Skullcandy earbuds. I mixed the whole project on that because I didn't have Audio-Technica headphones. So I just used what I have. And also very often when it comes to the tools, I think people also stick to t

he traditional way of doing things too much, and it kind of limits them. Like traditional way of doing things. You got to have big cameras, you got to have big mixes, some fancy sound interface and all that. But sometimes you don't need that. You just need the music. Because the music is what connects the people, and when it's right, people will feel it, even if it's not mixed properly. Yeah, but do you think it's an over-romanticized idea or do you think there's truth in the fact that when you

don't have as much, it makes you even, I guess more... what's that word? -More competent because you've had to really be resourceful? -Yeah yeah. Or do you think that's kind of like it's easy to say that, but actually you just prefer to have the tools? Nobody wants to do things with... I don't think anybody wants to be uncomfortable, but when you find yourself in a situation where you're uncomfortable, you got to make things work regardless. So there are no written rules on how to approach every

thing. So that's how I see it. But maybe there's a confidence that no matter what, you can still make some magic. There are times.. it got to a point when I didn't have a home studio, I would say, when I get a big home studio with a screen, man, I would multitask, I would do things crazy, and I got the big screen, and I would still be looking on the laptop for everything because I'm so used to that. -So I feel some things are overrated. -Definitely. -Yeah. Okay. Yeah, fair enough. I mean, too ma

ny tools as well that can take away from stuff. So someone asked previously, where do you like performing the most? What's your favorite place to perform? -Perform? -What's your favorite place to perform? -Europe? -Europe? Where in Europe? -Where in Europe. -Yeah -I think now... I would say Lisbon. -Yeah, Lisbon's sick. Yeah because the sound I do is in line with what's going on over there. But I like Berlin a lot because with Berlin, there are spaces where the events are attended by people who

are open. And even if they are not into the music that you are doing, they are not going to be like... away. You know, in Ghana, When people are not into the stuff that you are doing, they can just boo you to get off stage, and it's tough. I think people might be surprised to hear you say you'd like prefer playing in European spaces and countries as opposed to Accra. Yeah, but I would love to play more in Accra and some different places in Africa, but we don't have the security yet to do these t

hings. Yeah, I think that's a whole question about sort of mobility and artists able to travel across the continent, because it's a shame that when a lot of African artists want to tour, they think about North America or Europe, when actually it will be amazing for us to be able to tour... It's very expensive to travel within Africa and also somewhat dangerous to go by land. So that's why I'm saying we don't have the security yet and the market is not there yet for, let's say, the stuff that I d

o. Because people are used to pop music and mainstream music, and in Europe there are more artsy spaces and if you're an artist, you feel good when you are playing in these spaces. Yeah, I understand. I feel like it's a question of hopefully eventually in the content of your space and stuff... -It's gonna get there, it's going to get there. -With people like yourself. Someone asked, okay, personality question: what's your star sign? No, it wasn't actually that. Do consider yourself an extrovert

or an introvert outside of your work? And can you elaborate on how you approach working with other styles that you're not familiar with? And that's from Phoenix. -My personality is weird. I don't know. -True. I don't know I could be explosive one minute I could be chill, I think I'm an ambivert, but my introverted side is more heavy than the extrovert part because I'm a little bit shy too. Yeah. I often get confused about what even extrovert and introvert even mean... Just the way I am. Like, wh

en I'm with you, and we can be boxing, we can be dancing, we do all sort of stuff and there are some minutes where I'm just on my laptop and I just want to be massive in the internet. And what was the last question? Can you elaborate on how you approach working with other styles that you're not familiar with? Other styles I'm not familiar with? I listen to different style of music so it's like naturally I'm very in tune with things that I'm not familiar with. Like, I would hear a melody and I co

uld already capture the essence. And I think the ability to do this helps me to work with different styles. Interesting... Yeah because there was a point in time when you were reading listening to Goa music, you were really into Goa music. I remember. okay so someone asked a question which I found quite interesting, this is from Gigi: If you don't measure your success against pop music, I'm assuming maybe Afro-pop, how do you measure it? My success is to be able to feed my family, feed myself, b

uy the things that I want. Definitely there are some limitations sometimes but... success is subjective. It's a cliche. The way I'm saying is subjective but for a guy like me I don't need too much to survive. So the things that maybe someone would want to have like the accolades, the awards, I don't need all those kind of stuff. But I want them. But it's not something that I need. I can live without it. It's more about being impactful. And I think my success is when I know people are getting in

touch and in tune with my art. Because the stuff that I know is something nobody's doing out there. So the fact that I have over 2500 people constantly coming to buy my stuff is success to me. And sometimes you'll be on the internet. Someone writes on Instagram: "Yo, you are the reason why I'm producing, you are the reason why I DJ better now. You are the reason why my DJing style has changed," and all that. And when I hear stuff like this, it's success. And that is something even pop artists al

so get. Yeah. I think this idea of individual success, which could just be feeding your family, or yourself and also being able to just enjoy yourself, your money, it's like the lower end of the scale and you have the bigger end of the scale which is like accolades and awards and traveling the world. Andy McAllister asked an interesting question because I do refer to you as the King of Bandcamp because you kill it on Bandcamp, like you really are... You and Bandcamp are like this... best friends

. So someone said there are a lot of your more... Andy McAllister said, there are a lot more of your releases on Bandcamp than are available on streaming services. Do you prefer that method of distributing your music? Yeah, I prefer to... because one thing I think we should know is every platform have their target markets and streaming is for... listenership. It's no more about, you know... I don't know how to put it. But you want to hear more listenable stuff when you are streaming because you

spend down days streaming than let's say you are going for a jog. You spend more time being chilled and working out, right? So the music that I make is very fast and higher paced. So I feel like Bandcamp is a place where music lovers really come to collect music. And most of Bandcamp, the people that come to buy my music are DJs and they can't download the audio from Spotify, but they can do down Bandcamp in different formats: MP3, Wave. But with Spotify, you only stream the music and that is it

. So I feel like the music that I think are more listenable, I put them on Bandcamp and the music that I want to have like a very pop rollout for I release them on Spotify, you know? Yeah, I get what you mean because Spotify has definitely has impacted how we engage in music because it's a lot more passive, right? -Yeah. You just sort of have it in the background, you don't necessarily need to know what you're listening to. -Exactly. -Whereas when I go to Bandcamp, I'm going to buy music. Yeah,

you put all the personal text in there: "Yo guys, I was feeling this way..." You know, every artist, especially when you grow up loving hip-hop, you like the stories. It's part of everything. So I feel like Bandcamp gives me the chance to tell my story the way I want to tell it. And also it gives me access to my funds and people who are buying my music. And today, if the Internet goes off or maybe streaming platform shuts down, I can set up a website and I have all the data of people who buy my

music and I can start from scratch all over again. So it benefits me more than the streaming services. And the streaming services is more like a gate kept thing where you got to write... a mail or submit your music to a playlist to someone who you don't even know. And this person can just be like, "Oh, I've received 10,000 emails, I can't give you a shot", and I don't want to put myself in that position. So I feel like Bandcamp serves me more. Yeah, and it's like direct to the fans, and it also

means that you get a better fairer cut of your... -income from your business. -I think you stream 1 million, you get like 4,000 dollars as to the platform that you release the music on. On a Bandcamp you could sell like 500 units and you're already at a thousand dollars. -Sorted. -But the good thing about streaming is you get that recurring person coming to stream the music more. So let's say on Bandcamp you could make that 5,000 dollars or 2,000 dollars instantly. And streaming services, you ca

n make it like different amount of times, but everyone in their priority. I prioritize Bandcamp than any other platform. Yeah, because also Bandcamp, you can't stream too many times you get a message saying you should have to buy this. -Exactly. But it's interesting how you use different platforms. And so Mark has asked... I enjoy how Mark put this: So do you have an advice for producers that are coming from, let's say a "stiffer" country - you can make of that what you want. A stiffer country -

or an area to develop in a non-limited way regarding music making? First you need your fundamentals right. You need to study the Maslow concept of need - is very important. -Sorry, what? -Maslow's concept of need is very important if you are coming from a stiffer country, which means you need to get your primary needs first sorted. If your primary needs are sorted, you can be an artist. If your primary needs are not sorted, you need to follow the crowd and make some money then you can branch ou

t to be your... true self. -Yeah. -Okay, so what would you say would be the primary needs? Your primary needs are like your shelter, your food, love, community, all these basic things. You have all those things sorted. And is there such thing as advice on basically how to loosen up? -Can you advise on that? -Loosen up in what way? Because I guess if you come from a place where music making is a bit more rigid, maybe all music musicality is more rigid, because that's also how I'm interpreting thi

s question. So right now, let's say predominantly I'm a piano and Afrobeat is the main sound in Africa, and you want to do stuff like I do. Sometimes there's no arrangement style to what I'm doing. Like I don't have four bars, 16 bars. I'm not following that. I could feel like, okay, the thirteenth bar but I want to introduce a different phrase in the music. You can't do this and... you can't really be successful faster than the guy who is doing the mainstream stuff, following the structures, yo

u get me? So if you want to loosen up, I feel like it depends on your background. If you are someone with a lot of money, you could make music and not worry too much about how your ends are going to meet. I think you can loosen up and try and incorporate different things. But when you come from a background like myself, you want to play the system. So first you blend in, then you become reclusive after you've made everything that you want to make. If art is the most important thing for you to do

. And sometimes you could also be mainstream and be super artsy and people love it. But that thing is like one out of a hundred and me, I don't like to gamble. -Oh, so you play it safe? -No, I don't play it safe. But the thing is, gambling is not something that it's even good for you trying to indulge in, like indulging in gambling is not even good. -I don't play safe, but I don't gamble. -Okay. -Yeah. Sort of like calculated risks. -Yeah. We got a couple more questions. I'm conscious about gett

ing through as many as we can, because we are really running out of time, unfortunately. So this is a quick question because I think it's relevant to now, and also you're interested in this topic actually. So do you see the NFT world as a possible space in the future for musicians? Yeah, the tech behind NFT is very important for autonomy and freedom because right now what NFT does is immutable. Anything you put online, no one could change it. You can't change it yourself so people will see you i

n your truest form. And also the technology allows you to award your fans and people who are into your stuff in a way that traditional music systems wouldn't let you do without, let's say, labels getting involved and trying to get a piece of the pie. So what NFT does, it connects you directly to the consumer. Okay, yeah, I think there's a lot of space to grow in NFCs. It's going to be interesting to see what comes of it. So I think we're getting to a last... basically we kind of gonna reflect up

on this stuff. I saw a question which I guess might lead into some of the reflections, like, just in your opinion, over your career, what are the sort of main points, also reflections, that are needed to make sure to ensure like a successful collaboration or I guess a creative process from start to finish. Like maybe a few points that are like immutable truths. -Come again? -Looking at your career, sort of reflection of what we spoke about today, what are a few key points that we should all lean

into that can ensure success in collaborations, in creation of music in your career? Respect. You got to have respect. I feel like when you have respect, you know when something is too much to back off a little bit. And you also got to believe in your skills. Because when you walk into a room and people don't see the confidence exuding out of your body, they can tell you are going to waste their time, and you don't want people to feel like you're wasting their time. -And I think these two thing

s are the most important. -To reflect upon? Respect and confidence. That's really cool. And yeah, generally speaking, it's been a nice conversation. I've enjoyed talking to you Gafacci. I think it's been cool to look at your creation process, look at how you approach collaboration. And the questions have been really interesting. I think you have music coming up, right? Yeah! So I have my EP out today. It's a two track EP featuring all Brazilian collaborators: Badsista, Klap and M3B8, I call him

Meb-8, but it's M3B8. They are all from Brazil and... because of soccer, I was so fascinated with Brazil, nearly obsessed. And I've always wanted to do stuff with Brazilian artists because I can see the resemblance between their music and what we have in Ghana. So I thought this collaboration would be very important thing to do. So, yeah, I worked on it for two years, kind courtesy of CTM. Lucas, my friend, Lucas Walter. Bandicut in Lisbon, alongside his friends, kind of helped me to finish just

these two songs and it took like over two years to finish it. And it's a blend of global club music, baile funk, there's a bit of psy-trance in there, and it came out today. -You can find it on Bandcamp. -Love that. Nice one. I haven't heard it yet. I guess we've been doing all this today so... I sent you an exclusive, stop capping... No, but it's gonna... Gafacci's music is amazing.