[Music] hello everyone uh welcome to a brand new episode of The dcaps Driven podcast we are very excited today because we're going to talk about family business and we have three great men uh joining us uh Hank Josephs Michael Josephs and Dan Josephs with Spruce Industries one of the fastest growing jansan Distributors janitorial supply distributors in the country based in New Jersey and really excited today uh father son and son uh so it's awesome to have three of them on the same frame uh than
k you so much Hank Michael and Dan for joining DC cats driven podcast pleasure thank you for having us so Hank I'm going to start with you uh can you tell us about the spruce industry's business who started it when did you if you started it when did you start company was started about 75 years ago by a family in the Union County New Jersey area and I got involved with them about 10 years later 20 years later probably and they were struggling with transition um they had children that were some we
ren't interested in the business and I took a flyer and risked everything I had both my boys college education left a pretty big-time job and uh bought enough money and bought the business and uh basically thought because I was was a relatively big shot in a big company that I knew everything about distribution and Jan San and I basically found out in the first six months I knew nothing uh so it was a huge learning curve very nervous part of my life uh where I had everything at risk but we worke
d hard my wife and I worked hard at it we worked together which I don't recommend to a lot of people but we were able to uh gradually get out from under all the loans and we successfully navigated the marketplace and um I've been doing it Friday or Thursday will be our 40th year that I've owned the company oh that's amazing so the company was started 75 years ago and you bought them 40 years ago it was started four years ago that's amazing yeah yes so Hank um I've read a little bit or I've read
extensively about the spruce Industries a business and we also work with you so it's exciting appreciate the opportunity it's in your family DNA right so the sprues in your family DNA and when both Dan and Michael were growing up did you always want them to get into the family business or how was that that's a great question um if you own a family business you are involved in it's 247 you never go when you go on vacation you're never on vacation you're always attached you're always worried every
night my wife and I would come home and the boys would be in school and have their afternoon activities and we'd talk about things over the dinner table we always had dinner together and they would hear us my wife and I talking sometimes arguing sometimes fighting about different issues and different customers and different problems so they grew up around the business but it was never an attitude that we had both my wife and I that they were expected to come into the business we basically worke
d our our behinds off to make sure that we could provide them with a a healthy living a lifestyle and college education and from that point on whatever they decided to do I wanted them to be able to do unfeathered un without debt and move forward in their life so you know during the Summers and little bit of high school and college when they came home they worked for us both of them worked for us Well's in the warehouse in the office um Mike would you know handled a lot of stuff with the operati
onal stuff Dan was involved in computers he's an engineer by trade helped his mom so it was truly they was not they weren't hamburgers anywhere they were in the family business and then they went off to college they had their internships various internships and then they went off onto Wall Street and that was fine for us we were very happy the business had grown was growing we were pleased and then gradually I mean there was this well Dan could explain more about how he decided to change his car
eer and Mike also so but we always discussed the business it was they knew everything and we didn't hide anything and we were upset they knew we were upset and we were able to provide and continue and and it was very positive no I think that's great right so thank you so much Han for sharing that side of the story let me ask you Daniel you know you worked at JP Morgan for over five years and then did you always want to come back to the business like your dad was not really it's not like as if he
y you know you need to get into the family business so what made you shoes to work for Spruce there was never even a thought in my mind after graduating college that I was going to be doing this uh it never crossed my mind um I graduated college and I got a job working for JP Morgan on the software engineering side uh and I really enjoyed it I I really enjoyed what we were doing the company was actually for for a bank was pretty small at that time uh we were about 10,000 employees it felt like a
family it was really great atmosphere and then about 2 and a half years into working there we ended up merging with Chase obviously Chase acquired jper Morgan it was a huge acquisition um our 10,000 employees became 200 and something overnight um the culture changed a lot it became much more of the the C the culture of Chase and uh started getting feelings that it wasn't going to be the same and then about another six months after that maybe it was a year after that we merged with Capital Bank
one out of the Midwest and we became uh close to a half a million employees uh I felt like it was a small country uh it was hard to navigate you couldn't get promotions there was a a long line of people ahead of you trying to do the same thing and I started looking around other opportunities maybe it was other Banks and I remember telling my father about what was going on and just I was unhappy with what was going on so he says why don't you why don't you come work for me and I thought he was ha
lf kidding it the first time he said it um I sort of dismissed it and kept going with what I was doing and then he said it again very casually and I said I don't know what I'd be doing there I you know I don't know how to sell I don't know what is going on he says well why don't you try taking vacation take a week's vacation uh come in and uh I'll drive you around I'll show you what's going on I'll teach you what we're doing now and you see how you like after the week we can sit down and discuss
and if you don't like it then you keep interviewing with what you're doing so after the first week I remember I I ended up calling my boss back at J Morgan I said Uh something's going on at home I need another week so I did two weeks uh I felt like the first week wasn't enough to really feel out what was going on and at the end the end of the second week uh I sat in Hank's office and we were sitting there having a conversation and he just said so what would you do differently and I looked at hi
m with 12 eyeballs and said I don't I mean I've got ideas but what if them wrong what if I've been looking at this for two weeks he says what are them wrong says well then I'll try something different and that idea of the you know you try something if it doesn't work you pivot you try something if it doesn't work you pivot was really engaging for me it wasn't something that I ever experien working for the bank you know you used to have meetings to have meetings to have meetings about meetings um
there wasn't that ability to Pivot quickly and and do something different if something if if you saw something or you had to change and uh after that that meeting I remember we sat down and we're like all right we're going to do this but we're going to do it right so I ended up going back to work for J Morgan for another six months uh I ended up he put me in touch with other family businesses in our industry ones that were successful in the family business ones that were not so successful and I
talked to maybe six or seven different people heard a lot of different stories took a lot of different notes he spoke to a lot of people as well uh about the same thing so did my mom um and then after the those six months I quit my job and started working for him and it was it's been in Venture ever since I think I'm on uh be 20 years next year for me try that's amazing so you started the business 20 years ago so that's great but Michael you recently started with the business but you're the old
er of the two oh what happened about 20 days ago 20 days ago okay feels like it yeah uh yeah so I took um as my dad said I also started on on Wall Street after college um I spent about 15 or 16 years in Investment Banking covering of all things media and entertainment companies um helping them raise Capital execute mergers and Acquisitions um and I I loved it I loved what I did um until I didn't um at which point I I sort of Saw The Light which was the other side of the table instead of being an
advisor actually being a principal and being an owner uh and being an operator and I moved over to the operating side of the business I joined a company and ran mergers and Acquisitions and strategy um for about 10 years um for the last 10 years or so um and at that business we started again it was in the media entertainment space we started uh very small um and then we executed a whole strategic plan to transform this business um we went through about 40 Acquisitions uh and joined Ventures and
Partnerships and built what was a sort of one-dimensional radio old school business into a multi-dimensional multi-platform business and it was a ton of fun but again it was not mine it was not something I had a small ownership stake as a public shareholder it was not exactly not exactly the the endgame but I have always had the sort of entrepreneurial itch um and I've sort of had night jobs where I've helped people you know think through their strategy think through their plans think through w
here to go next um I work with a number of startups um and Venture Capital firms helping them help their portfolios think through what's next and then the only time I really interacted on a business level with either my dad or my brother was when they would get a phone call hey are you interested in selling the business and those phone calls kept coming Fast and Furious um and we would meet over lunch um right off the New Jersey turn bike um and one day I said well wait a minute what if we leave
what if we flipped the script a little bit and instead of selling what if we went and acquired companies and I remember Dan said I've never thought I've never like had the the head space to think about that we're so busy running the business and solving those problems what would that even look like and that's always been my skill set and and um thinking through a landscape a never-changing landscape which certainly in the Janan space is today there are a number of private equity-backed um compa
nies in the space that have rolled up you know lots and lots of companies I think the statistics was there were 25,000 jansan distribution businesses about 10 years ago today there's less than 2,000 so there's been a ton of of consolidation already so that's one side of it and then the other side of it is this is an industry in transformation and that's where you know I can help see around the corner because I haven't been doing it for 20 years um and so we the three of us spent a lot of time be
fore I decided to to jump into this talking about what we can do with the Core Business put Acquisitions aside because that's down the road that's we can we can do that um that'll come but what else can we do with the core business what haven't we what haven't you guys had the chance to try that you've been thinking about because you've been heads down and so you know I don't know a couple months ago we just decided now's the right time and let's let's jump in and do it no it's very interesting
and you talked about consolidation and with so much consolidation happening in the industry especially the Jansen industry how do you think that affects Spruce and uh what is that you know which is unique about spru which makes you differentiated in the market so uh I could speak to on that on um gives us a competitive at least we think it gives us a competitive Advantage customers are either looking for certain uh characteristics of of who they're going to buy from um either they're looking for
for Speed and best price and they're not looking for the interaction or we find that there's a customer base that's looking for you know a competitive price a product that gets there at at a good Pace um but they want the expertise they want the training they want the knowledge they want the friendly touch um and I think there's a major distinction than there ever was before there used to be a middle ground of a lot of larger call it uh 50 million to 150 million size businesses distribution bus
inesses in our in our industry they're gone so there is now a large gap between the the growing small to medium-sized businesses and the exponential size of the private Equity back businesses and it's been a huge opportunity for us uh one of the things that I I tell the sales team and I and talk about with the customers as well one of the things that gives us an advantage is customers like to pick up the phone every once in a while and yell at somebody if that the case may be and for the ability
they have to pick up the phone and call me at any point in time uh let me know the positive negative what's going on something that I could solve immediately versus having to to pick up a phone dial a robot figure out where you're going next person you get on the phone with and then you don't even know who you're talking to and it's it's a big struggle to get something done that I think is our biggest competitive Advantage at the moment and I think a lot of that gives us the same reason that I
wanted to come into this business so long ago is the way we could pivot quickly and change on a dime and change what we're doing um add a revenue stream take away Revenue stream go into a different target market quicker than probably a larger company could do that has to go through a lot more um Logistics to get it done one of the things that I've always said over the years is that the com a company like spruce versus a company like some of the mega companies when they want to make a change they
have to make a change like an aircraft carrier it takes them miles to make the change if we need to Pivot or make a change as Dan is talking about we're at PT I grew up PT 109 we can make a change in in a heartbeat and that's the quality that a lot of people look for is uh the fact that we have people answering the phone they identify themselves and they don't put you on hold they try to solve a problem or get some answers to you so those are the things and I watch with great pride in that the
boys understand that concept and are taking it to the next level which I could have never dreamt possible if if Dan hadn't committed a business 20 nearly 20 years ago I would have been long gone like everybody else like all my friends and all my competitors but because he was there and we worked together so well over the years and Mike was always around I mean there's times that we would sit over dinner Thanksgiving dinner or whatever and talk about things and and we would listen to what Mike ha
d to say because from a financial perspective D and I were operators running at Breakneck speed we we knew we were making money but we didn't have a what a model AEL that we could plug in I still tell everybody this it's like we're going down the highway at 100 miles an arrow with the doors off things are flying out the door things are flying out the trunk but we're still going forward right and and growing no it's very interesting uh that you say that and I'm really glad that both Dan and Micha
el are in the business but what about families out there where the kids do not want to get into the business how do they deal with it is it like hey you know is it just consolidation as the answer or what happened these families and I hear about it people talk about it with me because they all they're all jealous and I'm the luckiest guy I tell everybody yeah I'm the luckiest guy in the face of the planet that I have two sons that are seriously interested um if you don't have you can't make your
kids involved in something that doesn't interest them listen they both are college graduates University Michigan there's nothing glamorous about selling toilet paper and paper towels but it is a way to make a living and it's a way to make a good living um and if you're willing to work in in that with that thought in mind then the family should be involved in it but if the kids have this arbitrary idea where they want to go you you just got to let go and get what you can get out of it and get ou
t in one piece um for yourself you can't force someone to do this you have to want to do it because it is it's not glamorous you know there are tedious things that just have to get done but if you look at each other who's going to get it we're going to get it done because it's got to get done or else it doesn't get done and so if you have a family and you don't have succession plan in place you're either looking to sell to either another party in the industry maybe you set up an an ESOP and you
sell it to your employees people have done that successfully and that that works fine um if you're in the jansan space and you happen to meet in the trate area you should call us um because we're interested um but you know I I you can't do this by mistake you can't do this by happen stance you have to be intentional about it no that's great right you really can't force anybody to do something it makes a lot of sense another follow-up question on this right so there are pros and cons to this and
you guys have dinner conversations about the business let's say you have a great day in the business you know it's awesome but let's say you don't have a good day in the business does it also reflect at home how do you deal with that because that's a problem right hey working relationship is different than a person relationship and these are your sons yes right so how do you deal with that well it's not easy but we've had my my wife and I and the kids have seen uh over the years how we handle it
I mean we had many many bad days um and we dealt with it and we discussed it and we didn't hide anything because they knew there was some risk that was at was going to be dealt with but you talk about it I'm always about getting it out on the table don't hide anything and it sometimes it's pretty hard um but we we as a family have have always felt if we can be honest with each other um not hide anything be transparent um you can work through those tough days and then you you really get excited
when you have those great days try you just try to get more great days than bad days and that's the success so transparency is the answer my opinion transparency is the only answer there's nothing that I will will hide from my boys um about the business and I also at now as we go forward I don't push issues that I have I mean I make suggestions and then I shut up and I let them because as I've said to both of them the consequences are now yours not mine so that's how we're transitioning to go fo
rward you know and the world is changing in a very fast Bas right now and and um you got to be really really skilled I mean luckily you have very smart boys and it really helps but sometimes right so let's say family you know it's not just about the immediate family right you know it could be an extended family who's also working in the business or it could be your own son and daughter yes but let's say they don't do that well okay okay and then hey the performance is not up to the mark but let'
s say if it's an employee you would let them go but then if it's family then what happens you know well gets very difficult and we have real time real situations where we had to deal with it um I will tell you that when I bought the business my father-in-law was my first hire he was he was an excellent their grandfather was an excellent salesman um didn't have any experience but all he cared about was his son-in-law's success I brought in my mother to make collection calls because nobody worries
about their son's money more than their mother uh so she used to come in and then we hired my sister-in-law my wife's sister and that didn't work out so well um and it became a conflict within the family and a conflict within the business that affected the everyday um wasn't necessarily a performance issue I was going to say personality difference so you know uh my aunt uh HK sister-in-law wasn't I was there for a lot of this it wasn't a performance concern and I think a lot of the reasons why
a lot of times family structures don't do well is uh personality traits so you have to have a mesh of a personality in order to make it successful it's not just well I agree the number one thing is transparency I wholeheartedly agree with that even if you have transparency if you if you are having personality trade issues it's going to struggle to to be successful at it um I'm on a board uh where I sit with a a bunch of other family-owned Distributors like us and there that that exact question y
ou're asking about what happens if a family member doesn't perform comes up a lot a lot um and there's various different things that the companies have done uh they've they've moved them into roles where they're Supporting Cast they've moved them out of the business but still gave them equity in the business um you have to get creative it's not as easy as just letting an employee go um there are ramifications and um if not done well I've seen and I've talked to family members uh of other compani
es that don't talk anymore um whether it be 10 15 20 years later so it is a very delicate situation and when Mike was coming on board we we tried to lay it out as best as we can that our relationship will change it will never be the same for better or worse it will change what coming on board it's not going to uh stay status quo um but it's on us to you know pick which direction that's going to go um I happen to think it's a it's a personality match um more so more much more like my father and I
uh whereas my mom and I was a personality clut uh and it was something we had to navigate around we had to figure out what how to do that and how to work with two people with very uh emotional volatile personalities and how to work around that um which we did for 15 years um about 15 years so it is there it's multifaceted how to make it successful and it could very easily crumble really quickly too as I was really thinking hard about this joining and it was well we're going to get into fights w
e're going to get into arguments we you know we're GNA get in each other's way and Dan said yeah but I know your intentions are always going to be in the right place your intentions are always going to be trying to move the business forward we may disagree on how to get there but I don't question what you're going to be trying to do and that is important and that was actually really important for me to hear because I know that we're going to fight and we're going to disagree on different things
um because we do have a very different style a very different approach and a different skill set um but I think ultimately if we can stay true to that and understand that we do have each other's best intention and the business's intention or best interests at heart um motives yeah share motives yeah we just talked about the three of you but I would like to know the role of your wife right into the whole business what role does your wife play well when we when we first bought business it was quit
e clear to both of us that uh I knew a fair amount of how to sell and how to manage salespeople because I did that for a very large company um and I figured I there's enough about the logistics and the warehousing and the purchasing Finance not not happening okay I I don't think in my lifetime I've written 20 checks my wife has handled all of our financials both on a family basis and then when I decided or wanted to do this I needed her approval she worked in a bank she's an accountant she worke
d in a bank and she had to give up her career to work with me and handle all the finances so it was a a decision that we made together that we would split the responsibilities of the company you know you're handling the finances insurance and all that stuff and the money and the checking account and I'm handling all the other stuff and I'm suggest to you that I'd like you to pay this bill sooner than another bill because otherwise I'm not going to be able to get the product to fill the orders bu
t it's your your choice you decide so that was how we managed to work together and raise two boys I mean Connie was there at most of their basketball football uh soccer games and basketball and baseball games I rarely made some a lot of them but she was always there but she was always there every day you know come in separately two different cars then she come in I'd leave and I'd spend the day out selling leading our sales team leading selling um and then I'd come back and deal with the other s
tuff and then she would get in the car and go home and take care of them and that's how we did it and when Dan came in it was very similar except they spent a lot of time together so um and that's how you got to do it so she she retired six years ago six seven years ago she never let go still won't ever let go because it's in our DNA as you started this whole conversation it's in the family DNA she has never let go I I've let go on a lot of things but it's still you know it's our baby we took it
from near disaster to where we are today and um it's uh so every day she asked speak to the boy said what's going on and I'm I'm physically sitting in the office she sat in so I've yet to but Mom I am going to be decorating it's coming soon um but I found old ledgers like handwritten journal entries it's crazy yes but um but yeah she's always asking questions and pushing to you know help make decisions which is good yeah and what my mom did as part of the business yeah but so no so she's no not
involved in it won't let go so sure I mean Dan and Mike you know are your kids interested in the business well they're a little young 11 and uh almost 8-year-old I think on some level they might know what we do but not much they've been to the warehouse they've been to the office a lot uh especially snow days are days off they'll come with me um but they you know I I the same way that we were raised is the same way I plan on raising them it is a open option so they so choose um I'm sure when it
comes to high school or you know they need something to do I'll have plenty of them for them to do with the office but um I won't push it as to Mike said before you have to want to do it has to come naturally to you my uh grandson Dan's oldest son happened to mention to my wife he said Grandma I'm thinking maybe when I grow up maybe I can work with my dad and my uncle Mike wow well when you hear that as you know a grandpa and as somebody that worked your whole career at this there's nothing tha
t I could think of that would be any greater than a another generation of Joseph's running spruce and handling it going forward so talk about a Personality Clash that would be a tough one well that's amazing and it's s inspiring that you tell that so what parenting advice would you give our audience you know you've raised two really smart boys any parenting advice you would get well I that's that's a hard one you you do it by the seat of your pants we my wife and I were very young when we got ma
rried and we were very young when we had kids um we did the things that our parents taught us that we learn from our parents um how to raise kids so we tried to instill in them a lot of feeling about school work and doing the right thing and um playing sports and getting involved with your life other than idle time I I don't know if I can quantify it I mean they hopefully could sometimes I hear them say things and do things that I said oh my god really worth listening and paying attention so you
know and and they both have said you know why is it that I can't find that person or that personality that you you had and you had in in our lives why can't I find that person in my life like you did um so I know whatever we did it seemed to have resonated on both sides and they do have distinctly different personalities but you know I hope that they get the best of both my wife and I's you know attitude about doing things and um and I see my grandchild children and I see great things on my my
granddaughters who were older 16 and and 14 14 um and I see them raising you know growing up to beautiful girls beautiful women who have their heads on straight and I couldn't be more proud when I had the opportunity this holiday season Mike was generous enough to ship them down to Grandma and Grandpa to Florida to our place and we got them for 5 days uninterrupted uh joy and watching them interact with our friends and family I mean not our family but friends and their family and watch my girls
just Captivate these people I mean it's doesn't get any better yeah awesome you know so they've been listening as kids and they've been imparting that knowledge on their kids you know it's really great yes some good contributions for my wife as well he done a great job with the girls so that's awesome absolutely so talking about money right wealth so do you differentiate between the family wealth personal wealth and the business wealth or how does that work well I could tell you from from our hi
story it's it's you either take it from the left pocket or the right pocket sure but it's the same pair of pants sure um and a lot of people say well what's the big deal you just take it out of the business well you don't just take it out of the business so when people say that I know they clearly don't understand the Dynamics of running a family business um so if like I said and I tell people all the time if I take it out of this pocket it doesn't make a difference or I take it out of the other
pocket same money all goes to the same purpose and focus if the company does well the family does well if the company is struggling a bit the family struggles a little bit it's all tied together I I think the some of things that I've learned and we talk about um with a lot of other competitors that I have is you either could have a lifestyle family business or you have a a family business that's built for growth um and both of them are are okay and both of them are are fantastic and you could b
e very successful in both of them if you are a lifestyle business your business is predicated around making sure that your family is um comfortable and living the way they want to live um and that's something to be desired by a lot of people if you have a family business that's designed for growth you're looking to put money back into the business to choire to do different things to make investments in sales team to make investments in a in purchasing larger warehouses um to putting money back i
n the business to grow further on so that there might be larger money down the pot but both of them I think are fantastic business models you just have to choose which one you want and I think it doesn't have to be just one for the life cycle of the business because and we talked again back to the conversations of when I just joined because it's so fresh in my mind it was yesterday it was yesterday we're we're talking about okay I built this financial model and I said okay if we do these 10 thin
gs this business should do you know should triple in a couple years what am I missing and you said well you're not missing anything of I said well why why wasn't this done well okay let me take you back when we bought this business my goal was to send you to college that was the goal of the business to send you and your brother to college that was it so there was no differentiating between personal and business wealth it was one and the same now it's pretty different now the business stands on i
ts own and we are here for this next Generation to grow and that's that is what we're trying to do so to Dan's point there are two different types of businesses I think what you're seeing now is a business that's that's transformed and cross that Chasm to now become a growth business well that's a great no I think it's a great inside right so it doesn't have to be the same all the time you know it just shifts over a period of time so what do you guys do for fun outside of what well I play a lot
of golf and I play a lot of tennis and I currently am lucky enough to be able to spend a fair amount of the winter in Florida which I do and my wife plays tennis we play together we play golf together um so for me it's great and I'm still able to keep in touch every day I still have my computer in my little office at home and uh so that's my relaxing and uh we've gone we both of us have gone through some some health issues um Dan and I navigated something very major for me which we were able to
deal with uh properly and um so it's important I'm about to celebrate a very momentous birthday and uh three days two days happy birthday thank you and uh I'm lucky to be around and you know I attribute that to the fact that every day I get up and I'm doing something I'm not sitting around on a the couch I'm not watching a lot TV I I play some tennis too and I would love to play some tennis with you someday um I actually got into golf as well for the last three four years I got really into it um
found a good group of guys that we we play a lot of golf together go on some golf trips so a lot of my free time has spent around that and the other time has spent uh redoing sixth grade and second grade I am uh I could tell my math and since sixth grade is much better the second time around um so a lot of the focus on on helping the kids get school that's awesome you know spend time with your kids it's awesome man yeah I also like to play golf tennis go out and uh cycle out riding enjoying the
fresh air and then uh I'm on the sidelines for my kids uh sporting events as often as I possibly can because I know that does not last and they're not going to be playing in college so there's a few short years left to to really be uh with them and enjoy them while they're home and uh so and then we like to travel as a family that's awesome travel as a family is fun we would usually like to end the driven podcast with this question which is what book are you reading uh right now so well I'm cur
rently reading a book uh it's called with the old Breed by uh EJ Sledge it's about being a Marine in World War II during the 1944 45 campaigns of Pou and Sian and it was my father-in-law who was uh a marine till the day he passed away um he was a marine and he was there in both places and he never talked about it um but I did a lot of reading about it my dad was in North Africa behind a desk working with the Army Air corps but my father-in-law when I got him to talk about it um I started reading
volumes and I read a tremendous amount of books on it and I'm always reading which is what I'm reading now I read on the plane up and I will read more chapters on the way down um as I said I'm repeating sixth grade so I just finished bolf and I am now reading mous trp by Agatha Christie it's a play that she wrote so that is my entertainment uh is reading books to help my son uh get through I just finished the coddling of the American mind which I don't like to get political um and talk about th
ings that are in transition um and I think as you get older you may move many people in this country go from you know liberal to a little bit more conservative and this is a book that sort of is in that transition and what has happened to the American school system and Kids In America and it's I think it was a fascinating read very delicate yeah I'm reading this book called so good that they can't ignore you by Cal Newport also the author of deep work where you keep getting better at what you do
and eventually you discover your passion so it's not about passion it's about hard work so I thought that was a great book but H that's an interesting thing about passion it's not a word that we brought up to but my feeling about success of business in general but specifically family business if you don't have the passion for it you're you're not going to end up in the right place and I have always had the passion and I think I've passed it on to both boys that passion is something you do I mea
n I'm passionate about a lot of stuff I'm also without many filters anymore but I'm still passionate about a lot of stuff especially our business so um I'm glad you you brought that up absolutely and you work hard and you get better at it you know that's awesome so Hank Mike and Dan I really enjoyed this conversation it was great to learn about Spruce Industries and the family business how you run it how do you pass it from one generation to another the dos and the don'ts the conflicts and all t
hat you know it was a fascinating conversation I just want to say a big big thank you for your time it's great having you on the show thank you thank you thanks for joining us on this episode of The Driven podcast check out our other episodes for more And subscribe to be the first to access every new episode
Comments