Meet the Press NOW — April 2

[Music] if it's Tuesday former president Trump returns to the campaign Trail and ratchets up his anti-immigrant rhetoric to Brazen new levels bashing them as diseased criminal animals and blaming President Biden for a quote border bloodbath plus the escalating Fallout facing Israel as the White House says it was outraged over the an IDF air strike on a humanitarian Aid Convoy in Gaza that killed seven World Central chicken workers kitchen workers halting the aid group's efforts in the war zone a

nd President Biden gets up bets big on abortion rights in Florida launching a new Battleground ad following yesterday's Court ruling that puts the issue on the state's November ballot as the fight over Reproductive Rights and the White House ramps [Music] up hello and welcome to meet the press now I'm Ryan nobl in Washington former president Donald Trump is back to campaigning after a couple of weeks off the trail and wasting no time in deploying some of the darkest and most incendiary rhetoric

we've seen from him on the stomp this afternoon from the stage in Grand Rapids Michigan he ramped up his language while characterizing the current situation at the border a quote bloodbath caused by President Biden I stand before you today to declare the Joe Biden's border bloodbath it's a border blood bath and it's destroying our country it's a very bad thing happening the Democrats said please don't call them animals they're humans I said no they're not humans they're not yans they're animals

not one more innocent life should be lost to Biden migrant crime the first step to restoring safety in America is to fire crooked Joe Biden get them out November 5th we don't want them coming into our country with contagious diseases and they have it and all of a sudden you see these contagious diseases spreading once peaceful Suburban Michigan is really now you're under an invasion the former president also tried to blame President Biden for the murder of a Michigan woman who was killed by her

undocumented immigrant boyfriend but we should repeat that Trump campaign's inflammatory rhetoric suggesting some kind of Migrant crime wave is not rooted in fact overall violent crime rates are actually falling according to the 2023 crime data from the FBI violent crime is down nationwide compared to the previous year and the same is true in the big cities that Trump often pillars as dangerous outof control Democrat run communities and while Trump often points to specific tragic events there's

no evidence that undocumented immigrants commit more violent crimes than the average American citizen the Biden campaign accused Mr Trump of playing politics with that tragedy in Michigan while also criticizing him for rallying Republicans earlier this year to kill a bipartisan border deal in Congress so he could run on the issue here's more of what Trump said On the Border in Michigan no country no country can withstand this Invasion there's no country in the world that who withand the the cost

of this and maybe more important than actual dollar cost the the cost that it's doing it's Wrecking our civilization it's destroying our country they send the People by the way that they want out they're not sending their finest we will stop the plunder rape Slaughter and destruction of our American suburbs cities and towns we will and deadly Sanctuary cities immediately the former president is now off to Green Bay Wisconsin where he'll hold a campaign rally later tonight it comes after he fals

ely asserted in a local radio interview that he won the 2020 election in Wisconsin and claimed without proof to have EV evidence that the election was rigged it is only April and the former president's rhetoric has already darkened significantly and without really much push back from inside his party if this is where we are in April where will we be in November NBC's sha Brewster was at the former president's event that just wrapped up in Michigan also with me on set is NBC's Garrett H who follo

ws the Trump campaign for us uh so Shaq you are there on the ground I mean how was Donald Trump's language received today in Michigan well Ryan this was an invitation only crowd so you had and saw elected officials you saw members of law enforcement you saw Republican Party leaders so you heard a lot of Applause you saw people nodding as you heard the former president step up and continue the rhetoric that we've been hearing for a long time and you see it behind me in the shot you see it says st

op Biden's border blood bath the former president leaned into that controversial phrase that has been a front of mind for many people for a couple of weeks now since he first used it he made a nod to the fact that people were uh upset by it before so he's really leaning into the controversy that this his cause so the folks in the room they have definitely shown that they this is something they they wanted to hear and lean into that messaging but really in places like Michigan specifically here i

n Kent County the question is not how the people in the room respond and react it's really how the people outside of the room react what do they hear Kent County is one of those counties that Donald Trump won in 2016 Joe Biden flipped it in 2020 and I spoke to people we knew this messaging was coming up I spoke to people in town about the messaging about what former president Trump was saying on different Radio Calls and got to tried to get a sense of how they would react to it and I'll tell you

of those swing voters people who said they voted for Trump in the past but voted for Haley in uh February during the primary some of them told me that it's for it's that rhetoric that is making them walk away from former president Trump others are saying this is exactly what they're looking for so that's going to be the question how this messaging that he's continuing and as you mentioned escalating how that lands with these swing voters in these crucial Battleground counties and Battleground s

tates and sha this is the first time that we've heard Trump uh since a New York judge expanded a gag order against the former president that did that seem to at least Tamp down his rhetor rhetoric as it relates to his legal cases maybe perhaps I mean he talked about a lot on stage there he got into the election he got into immigration he talked about a lot of different issues but he also brought up that gag order he also brought up uh having to pay the bond uh earlier today he did not reference

the uh gag order in terms of the restrictions he didn't lean into that aggressively but U it's it remains to be seen whether or not it really had an impact I think you usually see him react to that when we see him usually walking out of the courtroom or being asked about it directly that will be something to watch to see if his language pulls back a little bit if he stops mentioning the judge's family now that he has is gagged and is required uh not to so that's something that will will remain t

o be seen but he did definitely mention at least some of the legal fights that he's been in and he's been connecting it with uh the situation and crime that he's been referencing as he was on stage okay check Brer thank you for that report so let's turn now to Garrett it's interesting the campaign was twisting itself in knots to try and explain what he meant by blood bath saying it wasn't as bad as people were interpreting it now they're putting it on campaign placards as he's speaking uh he kee

ps talking about this blood bath but the statistics don't really bear that out I mean does that even matter uh this no not to his supporters is the short answer every time he does this I think about something we've heard Nancy Pelosi say which is that the plural of anecdote is not data and to Donald Trump the anecdotes here are the point if your loved one was killed by an undocumented immigrant it is very personal to you and he does a pretty good job of mastering another thing you and I both hav

e talked about a lot which is local news and local media and going into places where there is a big story there is a big singular anecdote and trying to capture the feeling around that in a way that might ignite that population in Grand Rapids in Kent County where this is a big deal or in Rome Georgia he was talking about the lak and Riley case a few weeks ago so while those kinds of things can be enormously effective the idea of a migrant crime wave is not backed up in the data but the Trump ca

mpaign will tell you every one of these individual crimes committed by an undocumented immigrant would not have been committed if that particular undocumented immigrant weren't there and if they can capture those little pockets of anger they think that's something they can use to their advantage it's such a great point you raised because I think uh from 30,000 foot this looks like a the way he's talking about this would turn off independent voters but in each one of these little communities that

's been directly impacted by it this actually may help him with independent voters that's right and remember we're not running a national election there is no such thing as a national election there are lots of little tiny elections and Statewide elections that will decide this and you know in Kent County is a perennial Battleground where you know the relative risk of losing a handful of people a county that he already lost is perhaps outweighed by making sure that your people are there and that

maybe there are some of those Suburban moms who are worried about that kind of crime in their Community I mean Wisconsin where he's going to go next is a state where the margin was smaller than the average attendance of a Brewers game I'm pretty sure it was like 20,000 people so every little bit of this at the margin matters and I my own view having covered Donald Trump for a long time and watched the way the Republican party has changed and the way I think about this is if you're somebody who'

s been turned off by Donald Trump's rhetoric you were turned off eight years ago you're not suddenly waking up today and saying well I really like this Trump guy going back to 2016 but now he's taken it too far on immigration I think that ship is sailed and that's certainly the way the Trump campaign is approaching we we've been keeping your seat in the booth warm on Capitol Hill I know it's been a while since you've been there but if you can hearken back to your Capitol Hill correspondent uh ex

pertise here he's talking so much about the Border there are still some House Republicans that are flirting with this idea of tying border uh Provisions to the Ukraine supplemental bill is there any shot does he play a role in perhaps trying to find some way to get a border bill that could actually passed the House and Senate I think there's no uh reason for him to play any role in getting something passed right now nor do I think he's going to I mean I think you've see different sets of incenti

ves here for House Republicans on their two-year terms right now who are currently in office they need to at least look like they're trying to solve this problem and take it seriously Donald Trump does not have to look like he's trying to solve this problem at all his job as he sees it is to highlight how bad the immigration issue has become and to say as he's perfectly comfortable saying only I can fix it and that by electing him you could put something strong enough in place to actually seal u

p the Border solve the issue however you want to look at it I think think you having covered both of these beats there's basically a 0% chance of any border related anything being passed uh while Joe Biden is president or at least while Donald Trump is still running against him maybe in a second Biden term you would see House Republicans decide they've got to do something having talked about it for so many years but right now between now and November 0.0 you know I take your point that he's prob

ably past the point where he can offend someone that might even consider voting for him but it's interesting that he's decided to get even darker every time we think he's gone as dark as he possibly can he finds a darker shade of dark what what's the motivation behind that I think that's how he generally feels about these issues but I also think and this is consistent when you look at everything we've seen Trump say and do since he wrapped up the nomination right this is not somebody who's going

to go chase voters in the center we've had his his surgus we've had Laura Trump say he's not gonna go chase Nikki Haley voters he's gonna be who he is and he's going to try to use the Spectre of how bad he and many of his supporters believe the Joe Biden Administration is going to push people back into his Camp rather than him going out and reaching them so I think there's no amount of Darkness that gets too dark here I think you're we have to think about this not a some effort to go out and li

ke win this battle for this big middle it's a sort of like lower the floor for everybody and hope that your low floor is slightly higher than Joe Biden's low floor if voters hate everybody right scare enough people to the ballots happy Tuesday yeah thanks Karen well as uh we said the next stop on former president Trump's campaign schedule today is in Wisconsin which is also one of several States that's holding a presidential primary today that is actually still happening Mr Trump will be holding

a rally in Green Bay in a couple of hours as the Republican party there in other key swing states are hoping to encourage their voters to change the way they vote trying to encourage voting by mail something that's become a significant Advantage for Democrats in recent years but the effort is hitting some major roadblocks in part because the Republican party's standard Bearer himself continues to rail against voting by mail and cast doubt on the process mail in voting is totally corrupt get tha

t through your head it has to be the votes I mean it has to be if you have mailin voting you automatically have fraud anytime you have mailin ballots anytime you have mail out or mail in they call them different names anytime the mail is involved you're going to have cheating that's all just in the last month or so we should note that last week RNC co-chair lur Trump told NBC news that former president Trump is now very much embracing early voting despite what you just saw there joining me now i

s senior National politics reporter Matt Dixon he's one of the reporters behind the new NBC reporting about the resistance that Republicans are facing as they push early voting uh Matt this seems like a very difficult task if you're kind of a a rank and file Republican party operative trying to get people to vote and you are losing one of the key Tools in Your Arsenal uh by allowing them to vote by mail how are they trying to to have have it both ways not push back on Donald Trump Trump but then

still convince their voters that it's okay to cast a a vote by mail nearly the universal message from operatives candidates those who are in favor of Republicans voting by mail is hey Democrats are doing it so so should we uh vote by mail is become incredibly popular it during the pandemic it really spiked but even during the 2022 midterms it hit record pre-pandemic levels so it is a tool as you would mention that is really important politically Democrats have invested heavily in vote by mail p

rograms over the years Republic an used to Republicans especially in places like Florida really helped create the first first end of the the vote by mail programs but since Trump has kind of come on the scene and made comments like the one you've shown Republicans have pulled back from that so now the now it's to convince their voters to go ahead and say it's okay to vote by mail and the one message they're really hammering on is hey if the other guys are doing it we need to do it too and so uh

talk to me a little bit about the Investments that they're making I know you touched on it a little bit but they are there is specifically an effort that they have uh underway and they're actually putting some money by yeah well this is where get kind of complicated though because the national Republican party is going to have far less money than National Democrats and in a presidential election cycle state byst state and and we don't run national elections we run State elections relying a lot o

f money from the National Party to do things like vote by mail programs so that money's really got to roll downhill and right now Republicans are struggling to raise money and they're paying for other things is is you know a lot of a lot of talk has been president Trump's legal bills so the idea that that they they're going to invest in this is Complicated by the fact that they don't have much money we have seen state level Republican parties notably in Pennsylvania who've started doing their ow

n thing and they've started really really pushing the idea that Republicans should vote by mail but that entire process is Complicated by lack of money and it's not just the presidential race that we're talking about here right every house seat is up there's a lot of key Senate races down ballot races across the board uh if you're a republican right now you need people to vote my mail right without question we we talked to Senate candidates in Pennsylvania Nevada two very key States they're worr

ied about this and as our others across the country they are they are of the the belief it's kind of the operatives and the the political professionals and the candidates who say we really need to do this we really need to vote by mail our Democrats are going to keep beating us the uh they got to get that message into some of the the you know the Grassroots and the fervent Trump supporters who take their cues from the president as opposed to listening to the operative types of the Republican Nat

ional Committee so getting those sort of Base voters to buy into the message is right now what is most key okay Matt Matt Dixon on the ground there in Wisconsin Matt thanks for that check out that story on nbcnews.com coming up tragedy in Gaza seven Aid workers from one of the only organizations in the world delivering much-needed food to Gaza killed by an Israeli air strike the White House today says it is outrage the latest on the incident and the Fallout is next plus if it's Tuesday someone i

s voting somewhere will'll take you inside the push P to oust a city council member in Oklahoma who attended the 2017 unite the right white supremacist rally in Charlottesville you're watching Meet the Press [Music] now welcome back seven Aid workers with the world Central Kitchen including one US Canadian dual citizen were tragically killed by an Israeli strike today raising serious concerns about how Israel is conducting its military operations and threatening to make an already dire humanitar

ian situation in Gaza even worse in a video message released this morning prime minister Netanyahu acknowledged Israeli forces unintentionally hit innocent people in the Gaza Strip adding that it happens in war and vowing to do everything so that it doesn't happen again our NBC News team took this video in Gaza showing the damaged Aid truck as well as the scene at the hospital and we do want to warn our audience some of these images are disturbing you can see the bodies of those Aid workers bein

g brought to the hospital as Medics carried them to the morg as many of their world Central Kitchen colleagues mourn their loss while trying to console one another about the tragedy the strike to strike Drew strong reaction and condemnation including from celebrity chef Jose andrees who's the founder of the world Central Kitchen who said he was heartbroken the White House also reacting today expressing outrage and saying the US will continue to press Israel to ensure the safety of humanitarian w

orkers we were outraged to learn of an IDF strike that killed a number of Civilian humanitarian workers yesterday from the world Central Kitchen which has been Relentless in working to get food to those who are hungry in Gaza and quite frankly around the world we send our deepest condolences to their families and loved ones more than 200 Aid workers have been killed in this conflict making it one of the worst for Aid workers in recent history this incident is emblematic of a larger problem and e

vidence of why distribution of Aid in Gaza has been so challenging NBC News International correspondent rth Sanchez has more from The Fallout from that strike Israel facing Mountain questions today about how its forces killed those seven Aid workers from World Central Kitchen the victims from around the world Australia the UK Poland Gaza and also at least one US Canadian dual citizen now prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu is saying this was a tragic case of Israeli forces unintentionally killing

non-combatants Israel has promised to mount an investigation at the highest levels to find out what happened here but World Central Kitchen the charity founded by Chef Jose Andre saying that the killings are unforgivable and they are asking how this could have happened given that the three cars in this Convoy at least two of them were clearly marked with the logo of the world Central Kitchen they were driving in what's called a deconflict Zone a Zone that's supposed to be safe for humanitarian o

rganizations to operate in and the charity is saying that they spoke to the Israeli military ahead of time about the movement of those vehicles I asked an Israeli government spokesman given that the organization did everything it possibly could have apparently to signal to the Israeli military that it was not a threat how is it possible that these seven Aid workers still killed by Israeli bombs the spokesman saying to me that this was an unintentional strike it was a mistake that happened in the

chaos of War now it may have been a mistake but it was far from an isolated incident according to the United Nations which says more than 200 humanitarians have been killed in Gaza since the start of the war the vast majority of them Palestinians that is a toll that shatters previous records World Central kitum pausing its operations in Gaza in the aftermath of these killings and we are already seeing the realworld impact of that there were a number of ships heading from Gaza to Cyprus carrying

AIDs that wased supposed to be heading towards Northern Gaza an area the UN says is on the brink of famine an area where our crews have seen parents trying to keep their children fed with grass with barley meant for feeding animals those ships have now turned around with only a portion of the aid delivered they are heading back to Cyprus and the impact of that is going to be felt by a lot of very desperate people in Gaza today back to you br Sanchez thank you for that reporting and for more on

the US reaction I'm joined Now by NBC News White House correspondent Mike memy uh so we saw John Kirby's comments on this but what more is the White House saying about this tragic incident in Gaza well Ryan we've seen that the White House has both an official and frankly a political relationship with Jose Andre they've really lifted up the work that he's been doing obviously in Gaza but across the world over the last few years and so this is a moment as we've been measuring the degrees of daylig

ht between the Israeli government and the US government where we could potentially see this get even worse John Kirby at the podium today uh speaking quite forcefully sometimes though needing the pressure of tough questions from the Press Court to get there but to speak critically of this moment but also to say that Israel is going to conduct an investigation they want to let that investigation speak for itself what I think this moment calls for is what behind the scenes might be the breaking po

int for President Biden who has made clear his frustrations with prime minister Netanyahu but has not been willing to do things like condition military assistance going forward even today Kirby refusing to so but is this a breaking point I mean it's an awful tragedy on any level but it comes just a couple of days after the Prime Minister suggested that it wouldn't be that difficult for people to evacuate Rafa be ahead of their strike there uh here you have a situation where you have an organizat

ion that the IDF knew was going to be in a specific location yet they were still the victim of an atrocity like this I mean that more than anything demonstrates how complicated this is for the White House that's right Kirby making that point as was secretary blinkin when speaking about this abroad today and you think back to the meeting that happened yesterday this virtual conversation between us officials and their Israeli counterparts this is exactly why they want to have a tough detailed disc

ussion of what a potential ground Invasion looks like the US officials saying they've been giving them a lots of options that would avoid the need for a ground Invasion because of the humanitarian toll that this is taking we we look at what President Biden was just saying by the way at that fundraiser in New York with the three presidents last week he was saying much more needs to get done to get Aid into Gaza uh that he's also working diplomatic channels furiously with other allies in the regio

n to make sure that the situation doesn't escalate and of course this isn't the only hot spot uh that we're dealing with in the Middle East another strike the strike on the Iranian Consulate in Syria is the administration worried that the war could expand as a result of this that's why they took this really is an extraordinary step according to reporting from Courtney Kuby Carol Lee of communicating directly yesterday with the Iranians to make clear one that they were only briefed about this pla

n when the Israeli planes were in the air but that they did not have advanced knowledge of this this anytime you have any kind of situation like this in the mid East the fears of escalation are profound In This Moment yesterday led to that dramatic step on the part of the Biden Administration and we know it's primary day in Wisconsin and if it's Tuesday if it's Tuesday right somebody somebody's voting somewhere President Biden uh once again facing an an uninstructed movement so there this is bas

ically a protest vote against him in Wisconsin this is another and a series of these that have happened they've kind of brush them off they said they're trying to listen to these folks that are upset how worried are they that this is a bigger problem I was speaking to a campaign official today who said they feel like March went as good as they could expect you start with the State of the Union Address you go through that campaign Blitz he went through all the Battleground States they have been t

hough closely monitoring these uh uncommitted votes some version of them in several different states Minnesota of course uh was the biggest about 18% Michigan was the real shocker uh to put it on the map with 100,000 votes Wisconsin is where they have I think the organizers of this effort have put in their biggest effort and Wisconsin is important again as a potential Battleground State uh this November so the Biden campaign very much looking closely at this and it's why you also see it in the W

hite House schedule today typically in the last years we've seen a big reception around Ramadan an ifar dinner that is dramatically scaled down at the White House this year okay Mike memoy thank you for your reporting we appreciate it let's turn now to Baltimore where Crews appear to be making progress in their efforts to clear the Patapsco River after last week's bridge collapse Maryland governor Westmore says two temporary channels have now been open to allow commercial traffic into the river

the governor though cautioned that it will be a while before things are back to normal in Baltimore and I'm thankful that after only a week after the collapse we have Pathways and channels so commercial traffic can now move through but I do want to be clear we are still a long way from being able to get the size and the Cadence of the commercial traffic back to where it was before the collapse the Navy meanwhile released these sonar images today of the wreckage deep below the surface of the Pata

psco River officials say the water's still too murky for divers to be able to see that wreckage on their own up next Florida Florida Florida all eyes are on the Sunshine State as Democrats look to leverage the issue of abortion in Biden's campaign push toward November the panel is next you're watching Meet the Press [Music] now welcome back the Biden campaign is now saying it can win Florida in November despite the state trending Republican in recent years it comes after the Florida Supreme Cour

t paved the way for a six-week abortion ban to take effect in the state while also ruling that the issue will be on the ballot this November in a memo first shared with NBC News the Biden campaign says the issue of abortion will be a key to making inroads in the state where former president Trump beat Mr Biden in 2020 and where Republican Governor Ronda santis who signed the six six-week abortion ban into law last year won by 20 points in 2022 the Biden campaign's optimism show comes as polls sh

ow a majority of the country says that abortion should be legal and as efforts to protect or expand abortion rights could appear on the ballot in eight other States including some key Battlegrounds just this morning the group behind Arizona's ballot Amendment say that they've exceeded the signature threshold joining me now is our panel NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Ally matali Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher he's also an NBC political analyst and Lance Trover Republican strategist and

former spokesperson for Doug Bam's a presidential campaign Ally I recall the last time Florida was competitive you and I spent 17 days there living in that hotel that's right covering uh the recount there in 2018 I remember at the time Democrats being worried that Florida would never be competitive again if they couldn't win that election they were unable to that entered in Ronda santis and Rick Scott yeah could Florida be competitive now that abortions on the valy I mean because you and I remem

ber almost spending Thanksgiving together in Tallahasse in 2018 the fact that we're here in this place debating a six we ban a 15-week ban the remaking of Florida in a ruby red color as opposed to purple I mean all of that hinged on what was it 0.25% of the vote in the Gillum de santis race I mean elections have consequences and we are watching them play out through the State of Florida I think what's going to be difficult is we've never seen someone like Rick Scott for example run in a presiden

tial year so he's never had to see the presidential either drag or pull we'll see how that works for him but look abortion has been across the board a motivator it's been true in ruby red States like Ohio and Kentucky Florida is red I wouldn't put it Ruby at least not yet but I I do think that this is going to be something that it makes it hard to guess what it is because women's rage is something that's kind of unquantifiable but it is energizing and it is motivating and Democrats are counting

on that well Cornell I want to play some of the ad the the Biden campaign released on this issue as they try and tap into it take a listen because for 54 years they were trying to get roie way terminated and I did it and I'm proud to have done it Donald Trump ran to overturn roie Wade now in 2024 he's running to pass a national ban on a woman's right to choose I'm running to make roie Wade the law of the land again is that effective Colonel well look I I remember when when Florida was was really

competitive too it was 2012 when we were winning it when I was part of the Obama campaign and so look at what let's look at the numbers look at what we know this issue does take Michigan for example when we had that ballot initiative in Michigan going into the midterm a lot of people talked about well Michigan is a the state that Republicans should do really well and Republicans should do really well in the midterm that initiative drove youth turnout we had the highest youth turnout in Michigan

of anywhere in the country now let's break down Florida Florida is a state where turnout really really matters right go to uh 2020 when when Trump W it 32% of the electorate were 65 plus seniors we know a lot of seniors live in live in Florida what was that turnout in 2012 they were only roughly 24 25% of that right so you get a huge uh surge among base and youth voters this issue has the potential has an Obama likee potential to Surge uh younger voters and dim based voters and that gives Democ

rats a shot in Florida so Lance uh the Trump campaign has tried to say that he's not in favor of a nationwide ban that he specifically just wants this decision to be made by the states but we have a state like Florida where the six we band is among the most strict in the country is that argument something that resonates with voters well it's obviously a big issue but I if we talk about numbers Republicans hold a voter registration advantage of 855,000 in that state so that is a massive uh uh Del

ta if you will I think voters are Savvy enough on this issue I think it's possible that a voter can walk into the voting booth and say look I can make a statement about abortion in my state and I may vote for somebody else who while he does I don't agree with that person on abortion I also but I do agree with them on immigration and the economy I think it's very possible just two things first you and I both know this and I think all of us here too Democrats have sort of like let the entire party

atrophy in the State of Florida over the course of the last eight years so they're kind of building from nothing the idea that it's winnable is tough but I also think and I you brought up Michigan this week they repealed cacy bans in the state which on its face to a casual viewer might have nothing to do with the abortion debate but it all fall falls under the reproductive healthc care and freedoms umbrella and I think that voters are very tuned into that in those swing States like Michigan whe

re gret and Whit is trying to build on what she's done but then also in states like Florida where they're trying to draw a real contrast between six we ban to santis and 24- we uh amendment that they're trying to put into their constitution I mean these are real contrasts that voters are very aware of what each side stands for and now they just get to choose and it's very fair I mean tactically look Florida is a country with Texas Texas is a country so the idea so so yes it takes an awful lot of

money uh and and so for the Biden campaign which help thanksfully they have a big cash Advantage but look from a campaign standpoint what states are you going to spend less money in that you know you have to win to have a better chance in so that you can make that that that uh that that huge investment in Florida so it is a tough real world campaign decision so uh Republicans probably don't want to talk about abortion but Lance they do want to talk about immigration and it seems as though presi

dent Trump brings that up every opportunity that he has uh talking about it again today now using the term bloodbath on these campaign placards is that okay is this something that Republicans can identify with or does he risk going too far in using some of the language that he's used when it comes to this issue well I I heard Garrett who was on earlier I mean the voters separate the rhetoric from the policies often with Donald Trump if that if they did not I'm not sure he would have been preside

nt in 2016 voters know where he is on this stuff they know that his rhetoric is tough on these issues but he's still polling ahead or with uh Joe Biden right now so I mean yeah they know rhetoric that's out there but again they kind of separate the policy from the rhetoric and that's why he's still leading is is is it enough with independent voters though does he need those independent voters well I think that's a that's we'll see that play out in in due time but I do know and having looked at p

olling and other congressional districts throughout the country particularly in the midwest this immigration issue is huge and in some cases it's passing up the economy cor the the problem is what you pointed out is is it the independent and moderate SWA voters look I'm not going to play the polling game right cuz we throw oh he's polling head polls right now don't matter and I'm a poster right they're not not predict of anything so what Donald Trump has to do is has to grow Beyond well look we'

ve seen a couple elections now he's a 47 maybe 48% proposition can you get elected president 47% yeah you can but it's not probable right can lightning strike twice yes but no he has to actually grow his base of support this is not language where you're going to grow and be able to pull in more moderate middle of Road voters where when you look at Obama and you look at then what Biden did they dominated the moderate middle SWA of the electorate and this code of language just does not appeal to t

hem I I think back to 2004 uh when George W Bush was running for re-election and all these states put same-sex marriage initiatives on the ballot and obviously the opinion of the country of samesex marriage in 2004 dramatically different than what it is 20 years ago could abortion play the same kind of role in this election I definitely think so because if I look at the last 10 years as I've been covering abortion access the thing that's so striking to me is we're finally in this moment finally

depending on who you talk to being celebrated or not but being post row is something that has never been tested it's only been theorized about and so we're watching the cases sort of be made in real time electorally when you look at ballot initiatives and again you go back to Ohio which is a red State they did this election on a random Tuesday in August they gave folks like three months notice and nowhere in the ballot initiative was the word abortion folks just knew that really does tell me tha

t when 3 million people are tur out in the dog days of summer there's something to that and in a red state to see that kind of action on that issue yeah I do think this is one of those issues that makes it impossible to predict because we've never been here before well I think that's why if if you're a republican candidate the one thing you need to do is be very clear on where you stand on this issue I'm not saying you need to make it the center point of your campaign but be clear on where you s

tand on this issue and not let yourself get defined by the Democrats is there a possibility Democrats can go too far on it Cornell well this was the conversation we heard in the last midterm and and evidence says no right this is something this is something there's not a horer contrast right Donald Trump says I'm the person who got rid of Ro v Wade many want to do it I'm the one who got it got it done there's not an easier contrast than that anywhere he he made something happen that the vast maj

ority of Americans did not want to happen and we're going to continue to hit him and every Republican down the line on it but you're right Republicans don't want to talk about it who wins The Campaign here she who defines the debate wins the debate they want it to be about immigration we want it to be about reprodu rights okay we'll see what happens in November Alie Cornell Nance thank you guys all for being here we appreciate it after the break my one-on-one interview with a house Republican pu

shing his party for a vote to get Ukraine the critical Aid it needs in the war against Russia Congressman Mike Lawler joins me next you're watching Meet the Press [Music] now welcome back the prospects of Ukraine Aid remain murky in the house speaker Johnson this weekend seemed to float that a new Ukraine bill that would be a loan that would loan Ukraine money from seized Russian assets and also contain changes to US Energy policy the Senate's already passed a bill that contains assistance to Uk

raine Israel and Taiwan that has bipartisan support in the house but Johnson does not seem to be eager to put that bill on the floor while weighing his next step the speaker must also consider the threat of a potential motion to oust him hanging over his head with the Georgia congresswoman Marjorie Taylor green threatening Johnson with the same fate as former speaker Kevin McCarthy joining me now to talk about all of this is New York Republican Congressman Mike Lawler he is of course a member of

the House Foreign Relations Committee so Congressman over the weekend you said that you believe there will be a vote on Ukraine Aid when the house returns tell me how what fashion you think that will come in will it be the Senate Bill I know you have a bill that you're working on with Brian Fitzpatrick or does the speaker offer up something different well U prior to going on the Easter recess uh I along with Brian Fitzpatrick Jared golden and a number of my colleagues in the bipartisan way intr

oduced defending borders defending democracies which would provide 66 billion in Lethal Aid to Ukraine Israel and Taiwan uh we have all signed a discharge petition to bring that bill to the floor and have been in touch with the speaker on several occasions to try and work through uh and build consensus uh there's no question we need to bring a bill to the floor uh you know Iran China and Russia are not our allies they're not our friends they have engaged in an Unholy Alliance that has sought to

undermine and destabilize the United States and the Free World uh and we need to support our allies in this time of need so I am hopeful that the speaker uh will bring a bill to the floor uh ideally it would be one that includes uh you know uh aid for Israel Ukraine and Taiwan on uh as well as border Provisions including title 42 uh and remain in Mexico which is the bill that we have outlined um but you know we all have to find compromise here uh we're in a divided government and we need to nego

tiate uh the speaker ultimately uh is going to be the decider in in What legislation comes to the floor uh but my hope is that we get a vote on legislation as soon as we get back it seems as though that the speaker's been pretty guarded in his feelings about this uh just kind of hinting without specifics about what type of Bill he might support he talked about this possibility of a loan uh the the idea of leveraging their natural gas reserves have you specifically talking to talked to the speake

r about what his plans are for Ukraine do you know of anybody else that spoke to the speaker about it or is this not a conversation you'll have until you return next week now there's been lots of conversations over the last few weeks uh obviously the issue of a loan has come up as well as uh the repo act which would use seized Russian assets uh to help pay for uh some of the aid to Ukraine uh which you know in and of itself I have no uh qualms about uh with respect to energy look this is critica

l uh Iran is the greatest State sponsor of Terror over the last three years uh Iranian petroleum sales have increased by 88 billion uh certainly we don't want uh other uh countries rely on Russian or Iranian uh gas and oil uh so that is something from a national security standpoint we do have to deal with realistically it's why I introduced the ship act which would Implement secondary sanctions on the purchaser of Iranian petroleum the greatest purchaser of which is China so this is something th

at from a national security standpoint should be part of the conversation uh and so I certainly you know appreciate the speaker's position on that okay let's talk though about this the position the speaker finds himself in uh there is this motion to vacate threat that's hanging over the speaker right now it's specifically tied to him putting Ukraine Aid on the floor what is your feeling about this could he be in trouble if Ukraine Aid actually does get to the floor uh look as I've said uh it's i

diotic uh and will do nothing to uh Advance the cause uh of conservatism uh and in fact will undermine our house Republican majority if people have learned that lesson uh from last year I don't know what will make them learn that lesson but uh the bottom line is this the speaker has to do what is right by the country he understands that uh and he knows that we need to get a bill on the floor obviously he's seeking to build consensus within the conference and that's his job uh we have a house Rep

ublican majority for a reason uh and you want to build consensus within the conference so he's trying to do that um I think my colleagues need to recognize that uh you you know removing the speaker is not going to stop Ukraine Aid uh from from happening it's not going to do anything other than undermine our majority uh and so really uh the stupidity should stop so let's talk now about the issue of abortion and and you said over the weekend that quote people want reasonableness they don't want ex

tremism on this particular issue but I'm sure you saw this week the Florida Supreme Court Paving the way for the state's six week abortion ban with some exceptions for rape incest and the life of the mother uh do you consider that a reasonable standard no and I think uh obviously uh in a state like Florida uh we're going to see uh how voters respond to that I I think when you're looking at these issues even in red States uh voters are making it very clear uh that they don't want uh extremism whe

n it comes to this issue they want reasonableness they don't support the Democratic party position which is abortion up to the moment of birth gender selection for abortion you know against parental notification uh that's extreme uh that's a position that my opponent mandere Jones supports for instance uh they want reasonableness it's why for instance I've signed on to legislation uh to protect IVF treatments uh because this is something where millions of families all across this country struggl

e with infertility they want to become parents uh and we want to help them uh do that if and if IVF treatments are uh the Avenue by which they can do so that's something that should be protected I think you're going to see across this country uh in states where this is on the ballot a voters are going to make very clear they want reasonableness they do not want extremism on this issue so if I can get some clarity on that so do you not support any sort of for federal ban on abortion or any federa

l restrictions you think it should be left up to the States but that you you feel differently when it comes to IVF do you believe there should be a federal protection for the practice of IVF so I've been very clear I will not support legislation that would uh have a federal ban on abortion uh obviously based on the DB's decision uh abortion rights are are up to each state uh and so states are making that determination and with it the voters are making determinations in those States whether it's

on the ballot uh or with respect to their representatives in the state legislature uh I do believe look we want to promote a culture of Life uh certainly and we want to help people uh with critical Medical Treatments that would help uh ensure that we have uh the right to to become parents to have uh children and that's what uh the IVF protections are there for uh and so I have signed on to legislation to do that uh the Alabama Court I believe was wrong in deciding it the way that they did uh the

legislature there acted uh but uh we want to make sure that ibf treatments are protected Nationwide and that's why I've signed on to legislation to do that okay Congressman Michael La we pack in a lot we appreciate it sir thank you for being here thanks for having me still to come meet the Oklahoma City council member who's facing a recall election today over his ties to White nationalism we're on the ground in Eden Oklahoma next you're watching Meet the Press now it may be primary day in half

a dozen states but we're also following a recall election today in one small Oklahoma town an edid Oklahoma City council member is facing a recall election over his ties to white nationalists pictures reveal that the council member Jud Levens was part of the unite the right March in Charlottesville in 2017 NBC news's uh Brandy zarowski tried to get some answers from bevens about his past conduct following a recent city council meeting you were a leader in an Oklahoma chapter of a white nationali

st organization and I want to know if you have any explanation to that here here why did you march and unite the right why did you hold a tiki toward and Brandy zroni joins me now so Brandy explain to us who Jud bevens is well Jud bevens is an Iraq warvet he uh works with his his family's roofing business here in Enid Oklahoma and he is a sitting city council member he is also as he just mentioned um from 2017 to at least 2019 was an active member of a group called identity Europa which was the

largest white nationalist group in the US during the time of the so-called alt right um he was an active member a recruiter an organizer he led the Oklahoma state chapter and um now because of that he is up for recall in um this polling place right behind me so who discovered that he was part of the unite the right March in Charlottesville this is really interesting because this information was actually out there it was available on the internet but it was available in some of the leftie more Pr

ogressive spaces and um people in Enid generally are pretty conservative folks so there are some Progressive people in Enid and they were the ones who found this information and they uh took it to City Council meetings they uh organized protests they did not let it go and this has happened for about a year now where they have just not let this thing go they've gone to City Council meetings and sort of taken over public comment reading his secret messages on secret white supremacist forums showin

g pictures of him at the unite the right rally and these folks are called the Enid social justice committee so these are really the people who are responsible for this recall today they went and got signatures and they filed the recall petition and it seems as though even Eden's mayor seems to be opposed to bevens keeping his job what did he tell you yeah the mayor and it should be stated is a Conservative Republican himself a lot of conservative Republicans now that they know this information a

re really drawing a line and in some ways finding ways to unify with some of the most Progressive citizens here and the mayor told me last month when we met that he had talked to Mr bevens and asked him straight up about his white nationalist ties because Levens had already always sort of skirted the issue said I'm Against Racism but not specifically addressed those ties but he did in a private meeting with the mayor the mayor told us about it and further the mayor expressed uh concern that blev

ens is still associated with this group he is concerned that he's associated with other white nationalists that have moved on into other groups who maybe um contributing to his campaign or um helping him in some other way a lot of white nationalist group during this whole chaos have been talking about Jud bevens convin or suggesting that their members reach out to the mayor reach out to city council members and the local paper to try to influence their their uh the recall election and and do you

have any sense of how it's going to turn out I know you've been at that polling place all day and there's probably not a lot of polling but is there a general Vibe as to how today could go not a lot of polling this is a very small race right with very big implications but we've been standing outside this polling place all day we've talk to dozens of people and the vibe that I get from people who are willing to talk to us is that they didn't know but now that they do are ready to make a differen

t Choice okay Randy as said rzi thank you so much for your reporting we appreciate that and we'll be back tomorrow with more Meet the Press now but the news continues with hie Jackson right now thanks for watching stay updated about breaking news and top stories on the NBC News app or follow us on social media