Did the Men of Rohan descend from the legendary House of Hador, the Third of the Houses of the Edain in the First Age? This video explores why there are multiple answers to this question and why Tolkien created a false history within the Legendarium, created for cultural and political reasons.
► Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction
1:22 - Of Rohan: Myth & Politics
2:45 - Faramir and the Lore of Gondor
5:45 - The Northmen
8:40 - The Founding of Rohan
12:37 - Blood Feuds & Lesser Men
15:06 - Ulterior Motives
18:07 - Legends Within Legends
20:00 - Artist Credits/Outro
► Referenced Videos:
https://youtu.be/JT1pi5Fjib8
https://youtu.be/DAPjvp4be5k
https://youtu.be/ilqdJpErosk
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► On-Screen Notes:
1. https://youtu.be/DAPjvp4be5k
2. LotR - TTT - Bk. 4 - Ch. 5 - The Window on the West
3. LotR - TTT - Bk. 4 - Ch. 5 - The Window on the West
4. LotR - TTT - Bk. 4 - Ch. 5 - The Window on the West
5. TS - Ch. 24 - Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath
6. UT - Pt. 3 - The Third Age - The Northmen and the Wainriders
7. UT - Pt. 3 - The Third Age - The Northmen and the Wainriders (Note 4)
8. LotR - App. A - Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion
9. LotR - App. A - Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion
10. UT - Pt. 3 - Cirion and Eorl
11. LotR - App. A - Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion
12. UT - Pt. 3 - Cirion and Eorl
13. LotR - App. A - Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion
14. HoMe XII - Of Dwarves and Men
15. HoMe XII - Of Dwarves and Men
► Artwork:
All artists, images, and links to sources are found by following the link below. If you would like to see your artwork appear in videos or discuss the use of your artwork on the channel, please get in touch.
(CORRECTION - Artwork listed as "Power of Command" by Borja Pindado is actually "Rohan Victory")
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1O6rb0RMqVeacKkOHPt0wnkGawz6Mg6cYxR88GdR-lSc/edit?usp=sharing
Maps used with permission from The Encyclopedia of Arda - https://www.glyphweb.com
► Thumbnail art :
Rohan Victor - Borja Pindado (artstation.com/borjap)
► Audio:
The following music was used for this media project:
Music: Horizon Flare by Alexander Nakarada
Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/4837-horizon-flare
License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: Gregorian Chant by Kevin MacLeod
Free download: https://filmmusic.io/song/3825-gregorian-chant
Licensed under CC BY 4.0: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: Deep Ocean 2 by Frank Schroeter
Free download: https://filmmusic.io/song/7730-deep-ocean-2
Licensed under CC BY 4.0: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: The End by Alexander Nakarada
Free download: https://filmmusic.io/song/4859-the-end
Licensed under CC BY 4.0: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: Voice Of An Angel One by Alexander Nakarada
Free download: https://filmmusic.io/song/7036-voice-of-an-angel-one
Licensed under CC BY 4.0: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: Horizon Flare by Alexander Nakarada
Free download: https://filmmusic.io/song/4837-horizon-flare
Licensed under CC BY 4.0: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
► Disclaimer:
All videos are the result of my own research into the works of Tolkien unless otherwise stated. I do not claim rights to any audiobooks, music, or artwork used. All scripts and editing are my own work. Permission has been requested from all copyright holders.
#tolkien #rohan #legendarium #lotr #gondor #numenor
I often speak of Tolkien’s Legendarium as
a mythology. Anyone who has watched more than a few of
my videos will know that this is one of my favourite aspects of Tolkien’s writings. Not necessarily the abandoned Mythology for
England idea but Tolkien’s writing style, the use of The Red Book of Westmarch as a
manuscript created within Middle-earth, the fact characters can be mistaken about things
and not have perfect knowledge of their world, multiple versions of stories, or that not
everything is
answered for us. I find all of this far more fascinating than
discussions about the so-called canon or what text we should or shouldn’t read. And my love for this mythology really becomes
apparent to me when I think of what I call the legends within legends of Tolkien’s
works. Moments within the text when the depth of
the Legendarium is demonstrated through stories within the story we are reading; beliefs and
possible false lore spread for very real and believable reasons. Easy to miss but incr
edible to explore when
noticed. In this video, I am going to explore one such
moment in the text of The Lord of the Rings. Did the Rohirrim directly descend from the
House of Hador of the First Age? Why would multiple answers exist for such
a seemingly simple question? And how is it possible that these answers
can actually work together to make this world Tolkien created even more impressive? Before getting into it I want to remind people
that they can help support The Red Book project by becomi
ng a supporter on Patreon or a member
on YouTube. You will have access to members-only content,
including Livestreams and videos. Speaking of which, I originally intended to
make this video as part of an exploration of the Middle Men but that grew arms and legs
and became a trilogy of videos about the different destinies of various groups of Men emerging
from the East in the First Days of their race. All three videos are currently available for
you to view. But I have to recommend at least watch
ing
my video The Men of Twilight: The Middle Men. There, I speak of those Men who were friendly
towards Elves and Men of the West, apparently sharing some ancestry with the latter but
never rising as High as the Edain who sailed West to become the Númenóreans. Watching that video will explain some terms
I will use here and give some background to Men of Eriador & Rhovanion that I won’t
repeat here, and the vast history of the First Age long before Rohan existed. ‘Of our lore and manners they hav
e learned
what they would, and their lords speak our speech at need; yet for the most part they
hold by the ways of their own fathers and to their own memories, and they speak among
themselves their own North tongue. And we love them: tall men and fair women,
valiant both alike, golden-haired, bright-eyed, and strong; they remind us of the youth of
Men, as they were in the Elder Days.’ This is a quote from Faramir, Son of the Steward
of Gondor during the time of The Lord of the Rings, Denethor I
I. This is when Frodo was taken by the Rangers
of Ithilien, a region between the river Anduin and the Mountains of Shadow guarding Mordor’s
borders. In one of my favourite meetings in the entire
novel, Faramir details some of the vast history of his own home but also speaks of the Men
of Rohan. Continuing on from this quote, Faramir says… ‘Indeed it is said by our lore-masters that
they have from of old this affinity with us that they are come from those same Three Houses
of Men as were the Núme
noreans in their beginning not from Hador the Goldenhaired, the Elf-friend,
maybe, yet from such of his sons and people as went not over Sea into the West, refusing
the call.’ Explaining the lore of his people, Faramir
speaks of the knowledge that the Rohirrim, a Sindarin term meaning Horse-Lords, came
from direct descendants of the House of Hador. One of the Three Houses of the Edain in the
First Age of Middle-earth. A House of great renown, with legendary names
associated with it such as Hador
himself, Huor, Tuor, Húrin, and Túrin. A who's who of heroic and almost mythological
First Age Men. Specifically, Faramir is speaking of the Men
of this House who remained after the Fall of Morgoth and who did not cross over the
Sea to accept the Land of Gift offered by the Lords of the West - that land that would
become known as Númenor, the greatest Kingdom in the history of mankind. Faramir shows respect to the Men of Rohan,
saying they remind him of the youth of Men in the First Age of the
World, a romantic
and idealistic view - let’s remember that the legendary tales of Men of the First Age
are literally thousands of years old by the time Faramir is sitting with Frodo discussing
them, no different to us speaking of heroic figures from ancient periods of our history
and mythologies. He says that they (the Men of Rohan) come
from those same Three Houses of Men but that maybe they don’t descend directly from Hador
the Goldenhaired - but his people who remained in Middle-earth into t
he Second Age. This is one version of the history of Rohan,
another being the understanding that the Men of Rohan do not descend from Hador himself
but from those who could have been a part of the Third House of the Edain but who never
passed into Beleriand - sundered from those who became the Edain within Beleriand. Specifically, linking them with a group that
would become known as the Northmen. Now, I didn’t really go into any detail
about the Northmen in my Trilogy of Men video series that I
mentioned earlier. I can explain them in a bit more detail here. Their exact origin is still a mystery, we
don’t know exactly when they split as a group but a likely date is usually given as
the year 310 of the First Age. This is when that group of Men we would know
later as the Edain moved further West over the Blue Mountains and others stayed East
of them. The latter became the ancestors of the Northmen. This is not confirmed though. This is the big difference between these versions
of the his
tory of Rohan. They could have been descendants of those
who passed the Blue Mountains or those who never crossed them - never being considered
Elf-friends and playing such a huge part in the battles with the tyrant Morgoth or even
being offered the gift following his defeat. The lives of Men are short and it’s no surprise
that over centuries there can be many different groups that lead to those most are familiar
with in the latter stages of the Third Age. The Rohirrim are descendants of a parti
cular
group of Northmen. They are called the Éothéod, meaning Horse-folk
or Horse-people. And they in turn were a remnant of the Northmen
who had formerly been a numerous and powerful confederation of peoples living in the wide
plains between Mirkwood and the River Running - far east of Beleriand. And what all these groups have in common is
their skill in riding and breeding horses. A tradition that goes way beyond the time
of the Rohirrim alone. And an Author’s Note in Unfinished Tales
states t
hat: The Northmen appear to have been most nearly
akin to the third and greatest of the peoples of the Elf-friends, ruled by the House of
Hador. So, we already have more than one origin for
the Northmen. Faramir’s explanation that the Rohirrim,
and the Northmen in turn, possibly descended from the Edain who did not cross over the
Sea at the end of the First Age. And we have the explanation from Unfinished
Tales that the Northmen were most nearly akin to the House of Hador. Slightly different wor
ding there. “Most nearly akin”. There’s a difference between those who were
offered the Land of Gift and those who weren’t. The Appendices mention the Northmen as well
and describe them as: (being for the most part descendants of those
peoples from whom the Edain of old had come). This changes things a bit again. The Northmen may have been those who could
have been the Edain but who did not cross the Mountains, or they did descend from some
of those who were counted among the Edain meaning that
they refused the call West and
crossed back over the mountains at the end of the First Age. These various explanations seem to indicate
that the Northmen as a whole did not descend from one group, or were people who shared
one common origin. These origins tell us that it is quite possible
the Northmen were that confederation of peoples Tolkien spoke of but made up of those who
did cross the Blue Mountains only to return later and those who never crossed them. A union of different folk who refuse
d the
call West and those who were never asked. This will become relevant. This isn’t really a “history of” video
but what is it we are told about the founding of Rohan in the story? I can share some information but for a full
history, Appendix A of The Lord of the Rings and Cirion and Eorl and the Friendship of
Gondor and Rohan from Unfinished Tales are your sources for a full background. As early as the 1200s of the Third Age, the
Kings of Gondor had made close alliances with the Northmen. The
y were aware of them. But it was a particular tribe centuries later
called the Éothéod where things became relevant. They had moved into the Vales of Anduin to
the West and North of Mirkwood, south of the Grey Mountains. They had really become a distinct people following
the Battle of the Plains in 1856 of the Third Age, which was a sudden assault by the Wainriders
of the East against Gondor - an attack that was stirred up by the emissaries of Sauron. A province of Gondor called Calenardhon, mea
ning
Green Province, was located north of the White Mountains, west of Anduin. This land was abandoned following the Great
Plague, a catastrophic event in the 17th century where a plague spreading from east of Mordor
devastated lands as far as the western shores of Middle-earth. Now, there are centuries of history I am not
going over here but the Éothéod and the region of Calenardhon are what’s relevant
here. In the year 2489 of the Third Age, Gondor
had a new Steward; Cirion. And it is said tha
t as the strength of Gondor
weakened, he gave thought to the potential invasion from the North. Men were put into old forts to keep watch,
and he sent scouts and spies to Mirkwood and Dagorlad. He learned that from the East, beyond the
Sea of Rhûn, a force was slaying or driving north the remnant of the Northmen who were
dwelling there - sundered from their Kin further West, allies of Gondor that still dwelt in
the area. Some scouts failed to return and the situation
became more and more dangero
us. And in the year 2509 Cirion became aware that
a host was gathering to move against Gondor from the southern eaves of Mirkwood. They were seemingly akin to the Wainriders
from the wars centuries ago but we know them as the Balchoth. Cirion sent for aid from the Éothéod, sending
with little hope 6 riders in pairs to pass beyond the shadow of Dol Guldur to reach the
Northmen. Knowing that Eorl had succeeded Léod, Cirion
had the message addressed directly to him, asking for aid due to their anci
ent friendship,
letting Eorl know that his kin in the South were being destroyed by this force from the
East. One messenger, Borondir, descending from a
Captain of the Northmen of old reached Eorl. And after taking counsel with himself, Eorl
spoke the words “I will come”. And as the forces from the East, wicked Men,
and Orcs assailed Calenardhon, with Cirion defending against the invaders, Eorl arrived
unlooked for. The forces of Gondor were assailed by an Orc-host
and were being pressed towards
the Anduin, and they had been defeated in the Wold, cut
off from the South. And from the North, the Riders of Eorl came
and the enemy was driven with slaughter over Limlight. The grim horsemen sent the invaders into a
panic in their attempts to flee in the Battle of the Field of Celebrant. ‘An army marching up from the south was
cut off and driven north over the Limlight, and there it was suddenly attacked by a horde
of Orcs from the [Misty] Mountains and pressed towards the Anduin. Then out of
the North there came help beyond
hope, and the horns of the Rohirrim were first heard in Gondor. Eorl the Young came with his riders and swept
away the enemy, and pursued the Balchoth to the death over the fields of Calenardhon.’ At Amon Anwar, Cirion invited the Lord of
the North to swear a mutual alliance and with the authority of the Stewards of the Kings
of Gondor, the land of Calenardhon was offered “in recognition of the valour of his people
and of the help beyond hope that he brought to
Gondor in time of dire need”. Eorl became King of the Mark and Rohan came
to be. It is in the section of Unfinished Tales,
specifically Cirion and Eorl and the Friendship of Gondor and Rohan, where we are told that
these Northmen were descendants of the same race of Men who passed West in the First Age
to ally themselves with the Edain against Morgoth, making the Northmen off kinsmen of
the Dúnedain/Númenóreans. This is considered to be the correct history
of Rohan, alongside the account I gave
of the heroism of Eorl and the Éothéod. But Tolkien has an essay called Of Dwarves
and Men, found in The History of Middle-earth - Volume XII - The Peoples of Middle-earth,
which tells us that within Gondor itself there was a general belief that the Rohirrim did
descend directly from the folk of Hador in the First Age - considered not to be the truth
but a belief. This is where politics and, unfortunately,
bigotry and prejudice come into play. Those are some buzzwords to get the Tolkien
Society
quote-unquote ‘Scholars’ salivating. We all know the heroism of Gondor, their noble
origins as the faithful of Númenor but they don’t occupy these Kingdoms in Exile alone,
there were already Men in Middle-earth and the mingling of Men considered “High”
(The Men we know as the Dúnedain) and others not so high, the Middle Men (which included
the Northmen). A civil war had taken place in Gondor in the
15th century of the Third Age, when Prince Valacar, son of King Rómendacil, married
Vidumavi, a wo
man of the Northmen. This caused a war as there were many in Gondor
who still held onto the idea of being High Men, descendants of Númenóreans, with Númenórean
blood running through them. They really considered Men of the North to
be lesser Men, and were enraged at the idea of royalty mixing blood and refused to be
ruled over by such people. This wasn’t a minor conflict. This attitude towards so-called outsiders
continued beyond the Kin-strife; enemies were made of Men from the South - something
that
continued even until the reign of Aragorn in the Fourth Age. The blood of the House of Anárion - a King
of Gondor and father of the last person born on the Isle of Númenor - was said to have
become mingled with lesser Men, leading to the Ruling Stewards when King Eärnur foolishly
travelled to Minas Morgul to accept the challenge of the Witch-king, leaving no suitable heir. Suitable in the eyes of the proud Men of Gondor. More of this history can be read in The Lord
of the Rings - Appendix
A - The Númenorean Kings", "Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion. But Eorl the Young was brave and he did aid
Gondor, what’s the problem here? Why would Gondor spread a false history in
relation to the heritage of the Northmen? Well, as I have said, they were proud. That’s an understatement. The Oath sworn between what would become Rohan
and Gondor itself can be viewed as political and it is almost purely a power move on the
part of Gondor despite what the myth would have people believe. Gondor did n
ot know what to do with the land
of Calenardhon at the time it was given to Eorl. It had been evacuated by Gondor, many had
died due to the plague, Gondor was not at its peak strength. Yet, this massive region lay between them
and enemies beyond. Cirion knew that the enemies of Gondor could
use this land and plan attacks on Anórien, the lands surrounding Minas Tirith. Some such as the Dunlendings did dwell in
Calenardhon without permission but they weren’t as great a threat as the Easterlings, t
heir
many tribes, who were seemingly comfortable fighting with Orcs against other Men - pushed
to war by Sauron, his emissaries, and ancient hatreds. Gondor then created an undying bond between
it and the Éothéod, still knowing that Gondor was the greater and more powerful Kingdom. That would never be questioned. The Éothéod, or Rohirrim as they became
known, would be eternally grateful, elevated to an even greater status in Middle-earth,
but would provide Gondor with protection at little cost t
o Gondor. An attack on Gondor from those regions would
be an attack on Rohan, there could no longer be a surprise assault with enemies showing
up at Gondor’s cities from the North. And the Union, a bond through an Oath, became
a bond through blood in later years with Morwen of Lossarnach, mother of King Théoden, being
kin to the Princes of Dol Amroth, one of the great noble Houses of Gondor. Gondor really had to explain the giving away
of a large part of its own Kingdom to the people of Eorl and
chose to lie to themselves
and their people by claiming that the people of Eorl descended directly from the Folk of
Hador in the First Age. Tolkien says in Of Dwarves and Men that… This was a general belief in Gondor at that
time, and was held to explain (to the comfort of Númenorean pride) the surrender of so
large a part of the Kingdom to the people of Eorl.’ Gondor comforted itself with this belief for
the surrender of a land it could no longer occupy through its waning power. Strengthening
an ally and in turn strengthening
itself. No one can complain, they are not lesser Men,
they descend from a great House, one that fought the Dark Lord in the Elder Days, this
is a good thing that we are giving them Calenardhon. And Rohan welcomed and accepted this belief
for the native traditions of the Rohirrim preserved no history of the ancient wars in
Beleriand. A lie strengthened their bond. The Rohirrim elevated to descendants of great
heroes and Gondor forfeiting lands of its own to Men w
orthy enough to claim them through
heroic deeds and honour that must prove they descend from greatness. Tolkien says - The Rohirrim can only have
been akin as descending from peoples of which the Atani (Men) had been the Vanguard. In summarising all these confusing groups
and lineages I can say that the belief was that those who became known as the Rohirrim,
were descended from a noble House of the Edain, the House of Hador but they probably descended
from the original group that hadn’t reached
Beleriand with those who would become the
House of Hador. They were not descendants of the heroic Men
battling in the Wars of Beleriand who were then blessed and had the choice to sail over
the Sea with those who would become the ancestors of the Men of Gondor. This belief was merely a tool for political
and cultural harmony, for unity between two peoples with different origins. A belief spread by those fearing the mingling
of pure bloodlines with the blood of so-called lesser Men, no matter how
honourable they
may be. I personally don’t see this as an accident
in the text but a remarkable example of legends being spread within a greater legend. Text exists to provide one origin but other
text exists to let us know that the belief within The Lord of the Rings was incorrect
and told for other reasons. Entire populations have a deeply held belief
and tradition about where they came from but it is wrong and inaccurate - it’s a myth. The belief became so widespread that for all
intents and
purposes, it is true, with no way to discredit it or verify the truth in
later ages - again it's a myth, the true history is lost to time. This creates two versions of history in Middle-earth,
with one being fabricated by the powerful and influential descendants of Númenor - spread
due to fear, arrogance, ignorance, and pride.
Comments
UCPOz2P0OxWp0ij0K4BsLsRw/vlzFZLSzKMTkx_APrryroAs Support The Red Book on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theredbook Join The Red Book on Discord: https://discord.gg/XaZDTNkM
The red book library at the start is a great work of art. Really cool way to start the video. Love learning more about the rohirrim. Feel they aren’t explored as in depth as other races on many channels.
"this is where politics and, unfortunately, bigotry and prejudice come into play. Those are some buzz words to get the Tolkien Society 'scholars' salivating" . This made me almost spit out my coffee 😂
I can feel the magic of the legendarium. Well done.
Honestly, listening to your vids is more than a pleasure. The way U pronounce the names is utterly like honey to the ears, the proper rolled r, ah, music!
This makes a lot of sense, especially given Tolkien's background as a scholar of medieval history where legends like this were quite common (like the welsh and norwegians linking themselves to the Trojans or the Irish to the greeks) as a way to lay claim to a prestigious Mediterranean history. Or later in history how the aristocracy of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth liked to claim they were not actually slavs and balts like the rest of the population, but the descendants of Sarmatians or Alans (which had no basis in fact)
This is a fascinating topic, one which I hadn't given enough thought. Thank you for all this information so that we may see things clearly in the legendarium.
I've been waiting for another video from you.Great job,thank you!
Finally! I’ve waited far too long for another Red Book video!
Very well done, and an excellent choice for a topic. Thank you.
This is excellent content. Thank you!
This is a particularly cool analysis. It gets into nuances I never knew about and probably would never consider UCPOz2P0OxWp0ij0K4BsLsRw/WoJtYYztFoqJ6dsPyLy96A0UCPOz2P0OxWp0ij0K4BsLsRw/WoJtYYztFoqJ6dsPyLy96A0UCPOz2P0OxWp0ij0K4BsLsRw/vlzFZLSzKMTkx_APrryroAsUCPOz2P0OxWp0ij0K4BsLsRw/vlzFZLSzKMTkx_APrryroAsUCPOz2P0OxWp0ij0K4BsLsRw/vlzFZLSzKMTkx_APrryroAsUCkszU2WH9gy1mb0dV-11UJg/vQF1XpyaG_XG8gTs77bACQUCkszU2WH9gy1mb0dV-11UJg/vQF1XpyaG_XG8gTs77bACQUCkszU2WH9gy1mb0dV-11UJg/vQF1XpyaG_XG8gTs77bACQ
great stuff Steven, i completely agre it is the depth provided by the stories with in the stories which make the legendarium so wonderful. If i knew more of the cats of queen Beruthiel, if it was possible to know more i could not be more fascinated, only less. thanks.
I think this is my favorite video of yours so far
Love Rohan, they've always been my favourite partie of the Legendarium, their honour, Northern Courage & battle-joy always felt appropriate somehow and amongst the most well-developed concepts of Tolkien's Legendarium. Brilliant work as always Steven, your knowledge and analysis are always such an inspiration. I have to ask, where does Rohan rank as far as your favourite kingdoms of the Three Ages go? And which one is your favourite?
Was eagerly waiting for your video @redbook 💜💜💜
Fascinating. Thank you.
Love your analyzes !
Eagerly waiting ☺️☺️☺️☺️😊
I think it’s also suggested in the war of the jewels that the northmen could have been related to the people of Bor, the faithful Easterling. His people’s descendants that remained in Eriador and didn’t cross the blue mountains.