Pardon the Interruption: Annoyance or Opportunity? w/Lisa Harper | Joyce Meyer's Talk It Out | E 129

LISA: AND THEN HE SAID, "HOW INTERRUPTIBLE ARE YOU?" AND I'M A PLANNER. I'M A--GONNA GET IT DONE. AND SOME OF IT'S PERSONALITY, AND SOME OF IT IS GIFTING, AND SOME OF IT HAS BEEN SIN, BECAUSE WHEN I WAS GROWING UP, I KIND OF BALANCED MY WORTH AND MY WORK. I THOUGHT, "IF I'M NOT PRODUCTIVE, GOD HAS ALREADY LOWERED THE BAR TO LET ME INTO THE KINGDOM, AND SO I'VE GOT TO JUST KEEP MY HEAD DOWN AND BE A GOOD GIRL." I COULD TALK ABOUT GRACE, BUT I JUST, I REALLY DIDN'T THINK GOD LIKED ME VERY MUCH. BU

T WHEN THIS PROFESSOR SAID THAT, I THOUGHT, "OH MY GOODNESS, HERE I AM IN MY LATE 50s, BY THE GRACE OF GOD, I GET TO TALK ABOUT JESUS FOR A LIVING." I THINK I'M RUNNING TOO FAST. BUT I THINK I'M JUST RACING RIGHT PAST MIRACLES. [MUSIC] GINGER: HI, FRIENDS. COME ON IN. IT IS TIME TO TALK IT OUT. AND YOU ARE GOING TO NOT LIKE THIS WHEN WE START, BUT AT THE END... [LADIES LAUGHING] GINGER: YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE IT, BECAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BEING INTERRUPTED, WHICH NOBODY LOVES THE IDEA OF. BUT

THERE ARE GREAT THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN FROM BEING INTERRUPTED. JOYCE IS GONNA TELL US ABOUT IT. ERIN CLULEY IS GOING TO TELL US ABOUT IT. AND SPECIAL GUEST, WHO WE LOVE HAVING, LISA HARPER'S HERE WITH US. LISA: THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR LETTING ME COME BACK. GINGER: WE LOVE HAVING YA. LISA: I LOVE IT. I'LL JUST KEEP BLOWING UP YOUR PHONE UNTIL YOU LET ME COME BACK. [LADIES LAUGHING] ERIN: DONE. GINGER: THAT'LL BE AN INTERRUPTION AT VERY, VERY INOPPORTUNE TIMES, I'M SURE. SO, LET'S TALK A LITTLE

BIT ABOUT WHAT THINGS BOTHER YOU ABOUT BEING INTERRUPTED, BECAUSE THE IDEA OF BEING INTERRUPTED DOES NOT SOUND SO GREAT. JOYCE: I AM BETTER IF GOD INTERRUPTS ME THAN I AM IF PEOPLE DO. I DON'T KNOW WHY, BUT I GUESS, YOU KNOW, I'VE JUST SETTLED IN MY HEART THAT GOD IS GOING TO INTERRUPT US. THE BIBLE TELLS US THAT WE ARE TO BE, "READY IN SEASON OR OUT OF SEASON." IN THE AMPLIFIED, IT SAYS, "WHETHER IT'S CONVENIENT OR INCONVENIENT." AND SO, IF YOU'RE GONNA HANG WITH GOD AND WALK IN HIS WILL, YOU'R

E GONNA HAVE TO-- IT'S GOOD TO HAVE A PLAN. I REALLY BELIEVE IN HAVING A PLAN. BUT WE HAVE TO SUBMIT THAT PLAN TO GOD EVERY DAY AND SAY, "IF YOU WANT ME TO DO SOMETHING ELSE, I WILL." GINGER: YEAH. JOYCE: AND I DON'T EVEN MIND PEOPLE INTERRUPTING ME IF IT'S NOT FOR SOMETHING SILLY AND RIDICULOUS. GINGER: UH-OH. [LADIES LAUGHING] LISA: I KNOW, I WAS GOING TO SAY, "I HOPE SHE DOESN'T SAY SOMETHING I'VE DONE." JOYCE: NO. ERIN: LET US KNOW WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE. JOYCE: NONE OF YOU HAVE EVER DONE THA

T. ERIN: OH, THAT'S GOOD. JOYCE: BUT I'M DOING A LOT OF SERIOUS STUFF, AT LEAST IT'S SERIOUS TO ME, YOU KNOW. LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, IF I'M WRITING A BOOK, YOU REALLY GET INTO IT. YOU GET LIKE, LOST IN IT. AND SO, SOMETIMES, DAVE WILL COME AND SAY, "LET ME READ YOU THIS." AND I'M LIKE, "DAVE..." [LADIES LAUGHING] JOYCE: "I'M WRITING." BECAUSE IF SOMEBODY PULLS YOU OUT OF THAT, THEN IT TAKES YOU A WHILE TO GET BACK TO THAT PLACE WHERE YOU WERE AT. LISA: KIND OF STOPS THE FLOW. JOYCE: SO, I DO THINK T

HAT PEOPLE NEED TO BE RESPECTFUL OF OTHER PEOPLE'S TIMES. I NEED TO BE RESPECTFUL OF WHAT PEOPLE ARE DOING, AND THEY NEED TO BE RESPECTFUL OF WHAT I'M DOING. BUT IF SOMEBODY INTERRUPTS ME WITH SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT, THEN THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY. ERIN: YOU'RE REALLY GOOD AT BEING INTERRUPTED, BECAUSE I WATCH YOU. I'M WATCHING YOU ALL THE TIME. AND SO, I SIT BY YOU. OUR OFFICES ARE NEAR EACH OTHER. LISA: I'LL BE WATCHING YOU. ERIN: BUT YOU ARE CONSTANTLY BEING INTERRUPTED. THANK YOU.

GINGER: IT'S SCARY. ERIN: YEAH. BECAUSE PEOPLE NEED SO MUCH FROM YOU. AND SO, I WATCH YOU HANDLE PEOPLE TRYING TO TAKE YOUR TIME, IN THE KINDEST WAY, BUT YOU HAVE TO QUICKLY BE KIND TO THEM. AND IT'S JUST--THAT'S HARD. YOU DO A REALLY GOOD JOB WITH IT. AND I WATCH AND THINK, I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD BE SO GRACEFUL... GINGER: OH, THANK YOU. THAT'S NICE. ERIN: THAT PEOPLE ARE COMING IN ALL THE TIME. GINGER: IT'S NOT ALWAYS WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE INSIDE. ERIN: YOU HIDE IT REALLY WELL. [LADIES LAU

GHING] JOYCE: I USED TO SAY WHEN I HAD--I DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS NOW, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE--BUT WHEN I USED TO RUN THE OFFICE AND EVERYTHING, WHEN I WOULD COME IN HERE, I WOULD HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE WANTING A LITTLE PIECE OF ME, I ALWAYS SAID, "BY THE END OF THE DAY, I FELT LIKE A BONE THAT HAD BEEN PICKED COMPLETELY CLEAN," YOU KNOW. ERIN: "THERE'S NOTHING LEFT TO GIVE YOU." JOYCE: "THERE'S NOTHING LEFT TO GIVE YOU." AND--BUT WE HAVE TO DEVELOP PATIENCE. BUT YOU KNOW, JESUS-- PE

OPLE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT STUDYING THE STEPS OF JESUS. AND I THINK WE NEED TO STUDY THE STOPS OF JESUS. GINGER: OH, THAT'S GREAT. JOYCE: BECAUSE HE ALWAYS LET PEOPLE STOP HIM. I DON'T KNOW OF A TIME WHEN HE SAID, "DON'T BOTHER ME." LISA: THAT'S RIGHT. JOYCE: HE ALWAYS TOOK TIME FOR PEOPLE. AND I THINK WE NEED TO REMEMBER THAT IN OUR TIME. MY DAUGHTER TOLD ME A STORY ABOUT SOMETHING SHE DID THAT I THINK JUST MAKES A GOOD EXAMPLE. SHE WAS LEAVING THE GROCERY STORE, AND AN ELDERLY MAN WAS WAITING AT T

HE CURB TO CROSS. AND THERE WAS A LOT OF TRAFFIC, SO THEY BOTH HAD TO WAIT A WHILE. AND HE STARTED TALKING TO HER. AND SHE REALLY WAS KIND OF IN A HURRY AND WANTED TO GET HOME. BUT SHE SAID, "I KIND OF SENSED IN MY HEART THAT HE REALLY NEEDED-- THAT HE WAS A LONELY MAN, AND HE NEEDED SOMEBODY JUST TO TAKE TIME TO LISTEN TO HIM FOR A WHILE." AND SO, SHE SAID, "I FELT LIKE GOD WANTED ME TO DO THAT." AND SEE, THESE ARE WAYS THAT WE CAN SERVE GOD THAT MAYBE ARE NOT BIG... [CLAPPING] EVERYBODY'S CLAP

PING FOR IT, BUT HEAVEN IS CLAPPING FOR IT. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT GOD WANTS. HE WANTS US TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE LITTLE THINGS THAT PEOPLE NEED THAT WE'RE MAYBE NOT GONNA GET CREDIT FOR HERE, BUT THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO HIM. GINGER: WELL, THE WONDERFUL THINGS THAT CAN COME FROM INTERRUPTION ONLY COME IF WE ALLOW OUR HEART TO LET IT. YOU KNOW, OTHERWISE, WE'RE PUSHING PEOPLE AWAY. WE'RE EVEN PUSHING GOD AWAY AND SAYING, YOU KNOW, "I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THAT RIGHT NOW." AND WE ARE A CULTURE THAT KIND

OF HAS A "DO NOT DISTURB" SIGN ON US QUITE OFTEN. SO, JOYCE IS GONNA TELL US A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE DANGER OF THAT "DO NOT DISTURB" SIGN. SO, LET'S LISTEN TO THAT. AND THEN WE'LL TALK ABOUT BEING INTERRUPTED BY GOD AND BY PEOPLE, AND THE GOOD THINGS THAT CAN COME OF IT. JOYCE: I WANNA SHARE WITH YOU, A MESSAGE TONIGHT THAT IS--IT'S BEEN ONE THAT'S BEEN VERY IMPORTANT TO ME AND SOMETHING THAT HAS REALLY HELPED ME IN MY LIFE. AND I HOPE THAT IT WILL HELP YOU. IT HAS A FUNNY, LITTLE TITLE. IT'

S CALLED, "DON'T DISTURB ME." YOU MIGHT BE THINKING, "WELL, WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THAT ABOUT?" WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK A LARGE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD TODAY, THAT'S JUST THEIR ATTITUDE. "I'M BUSY. I'M GOING SOMEWHERE. I'VE GOT MY PLAN. I'VE GOT MY THING. I'VE GOT MY DAY FIGURED OUT. AND SO, IF YOU'VE GOT A PROBLEM, DON'T BOTHER ME WITH IT." WELL, YOU KNOW, JESUS WASN'T LIKE THAT. NOW, WE STAY IN A LOT OF HOTELS. AND IN HOTELS, THEY ALWAYS LEAVE US ONE OF THESE TO PUT ON OUR DOOR. [AUD

IENCE LAUGHING] JOYCE: BUT TODAY PEOPLE ARE WEARING 'EM ON THEIR BODIES. NOW, I'LL JUST WEAR THISLE AROUND FOR A LITTLE BIT, JUST SO YOU GET THE PICTURE. WE HAVE SUCH A HUGE OPPORTUNITY IN FRONT OF US TODAY. BUT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO GET MORE LIKE JESUS. AND A LOT LESS LIKE A CARNAL, SELFISH, SELF-CENTERED CHRISTIAN, WHO JUST GOES TO CHURCH, AND THINKS THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT. DO YOU KNOW, JUST BECAUSE YOU GO TO CHURCH, THAT DOESN'T MAKE YOU A CHRISTIAN. I COULD GO HOME AND SIT IN MY GARAGE ALL

NIGHT AND IT WOULDN'T MAKE ME A CAR. [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] JOYCE: JESUS SAID, "I WANT YOU TO GO AND BEAR FRUIT." SO, MAYBE, I'D JUST LIKE TO ASK YOU, TONIGHT, TO THINK A LITTLE BIT THIS NEXT WEEK ABOUT WHAT KIND OF FRUIT ARE YOU BEARING IN YOUR LIFE? ARE YOU COMING HERE AND JUST BEING FED? AND YOU LOVE THAT. YOU LOVE FOR SOMEBODY ELSE TO DO ALL THE WORK. AND DIG OUT ALL THE MESSAGES. AND JUST FEED YOU ALL THE GOOD STUFF. BUT WHAT ARE YOU DOIN' WITH IT? I HOPE A LOT. I'M NOT ACCUSING ANYBODY. I HOP

E THAT EVERY MESSAGE YOU HEAR, YOU HEAR IT WITH THE INTENT THAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT. NOW, WE'RE GONNA USE THE PARABLE OF THE GOOD SAMARITAN, TONIGHT. AND I WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO IT, LIKE, MAYBE, YOU'VE NEVER HEARD IT BEFORE. THERE WAS A PHARISEE, AND HE SAID TO JESUS, "'WHAT MUST I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?' AND HE SAID, 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND ALL YOUR STRENGTH; AND YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR EVE

N AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF.'" I SAY THOSE TWO SCRIPTURES, OUT LOUD EVERY MORNING. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT GOD HAS CALLED US TO DO, IS TO LOVE HIM AND TO LOVE PEOPLE. AMEN? AUDIENCE: AMEN. GINGER: YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE FIND IS THAT IT'S EASY TO LOVE PEOPLE WHEN WE'RE PREPARED FOR IT. WHEN WE'RE IN THE MOOD FOR IT, WHEN WE HAVE THE TIME FOR IT, WHATEVER IT MAY BE. BUT GOD REALLY DOES LOVE TO KIND OF JUMP IN OUR PATH, TO INTERRUPT US WITH THE THINGS THAT HE WANTS, OR TO INTERRUPT US WITH ANOT

HER PERSON WITH A WAY THAT GOD WANTS US TO HELP THEM. AND THOSE ARE THE HARDEST TIMES, SOMETIMES. JOYCE: WELL, I THINK, SOMETIMES, WE THINK THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING IS SO IMPORTANT. [LADIES AGREEING] JOYCE: BUT, YOU KNOW, PART OF IT, WHEN GOD INTERRUPTS US, MAY JUST BE A TEST. BUT I THINK A LOT OF TIMES, TOO, IS JUST WE WANT EVERYTHING TO BE CONVENIENT FOR US. YOU KNOW, "I DON'T MIND DOING THAT IF I GET TO PLAN FOR IT, BUT DON'T BUG ME WITH IT RIGHT NOW." I'VE GOT A DEFINITION HERE FOR "CONVENIENT.

" "SUITED TO PERSONAL COMFORT AND EASE." "SUITED TO YOUR OWN PERSONAL SITUATION." AND I THINK WE CAN PRETTY MUCH SAY TODAY THAT IN OUR WESTERN LIFESTYLE, WE'RE PRETTY MUCH ADDICTED TO COMFORT AND EASE. WE DON'T MIND DOING IT, "BUT I DON'T WANT IT TO BE HARD. I DON'T WANT IT TO BE UNCOMFORTABLE. I WANT IT TO BE ON MY TIMETABLE." AND WE DO HAVE TO BE READY TO BE INTERRUPTED IF WE'RE GONNA SERVE GOD. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE DISCIPLES, THAT JESUS--BEFORE THEY WERE DISCIPLES, THEY WERE FISHERMEN. AN

D IT'S INTERESTING TO ME THAT WHEN JESUS SAID, "FOLLOW ME," THEY WERE ALL DOING SOMETHING. LISA: THAT'S RIGHT. GINGER: YEAH. JOYCE: EVERY ONE OF THEM WAS BUSY DOING SOMETHING, AND THEY DROPPED EVERYTHING AND FOLLOWED HIM. AND SO, I THINK THERE'S A DEEPER MESSAGE THERE THAT WE NEED TO GET FOR OUR LIVES. YOU KNOW, IS JESUS SAYING TO SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE WATCHING TODAY OR LISTENING TODAY, "FOLLOW ME," BUT YOU'RE TOO BUSY FOLLOWING YOUR OWN PLAN TO REALLY HEAR WHAT GOD'S SAYING? AND LET ME JU

ST ADD, BEFORE I BE QUIET AND LET SOMEBODY ELSE TALK, IS THAT YOU MAY THINK THAT THE PATH YOU'RE TAKING IS GONNA LEAD YOU TO HAPPINESS, BUT THERE'S NO PATH THAT'S BETTER TO FOLLOW THAN THE ONE THAT GOD WANTS TO TAKE YOU DOWN. LISA: AMEN. ERIN: THAT'S REALLY GOOD. I WAS JUST READING LUKE 1, THE OTHER DAY, AND THEN I WAS TALKING TO SOME PEOPLE ABOUT IT YESTERDAY, AND--THE STORY OF MARY. AND ANGEL GABRIEL COMES TO MARY, AND HE SAYS, "YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A BABY." SO, FIRST OF ALL, WHOA, THAT'S KIND

OF BIG. AND THEN HE'S GOING TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. AND SO, I'M READING THIS PASSAGE, AND SHE ASKS ONE QUESTION. SHE'S LIKE, "HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?" WHICH FEELS LIKE A FAIR QUESTION TO ASK, BECAUSE SHE'S ENGAGED. LISA: ESPECIALLY, SINCE SHE'S ABOUT 14. ERIN: YES! AND SHE'S ENGAGED TO BE MARRIED, NOT YET MARRIED, AND SHE'S PURE. AND SO, THAT FEELS FAIR. BUT THAT'S THE ONLY THING SHE SAYS. AND THEN SHE SAYS, "OK." SHE ACCEPTS THAT, AND SHE'S READY TO GO. AND I THOUGHT, I DON'T KNOW THAT I

WOULD-- NO, I DON'T KNOW IT, I KNOW THAT I WOULD NOT HAVE RESPONDED. JOYCE: MAYBE IF AN ANGEL APPEARED TO YOU. LISA: THIS IS TRUE. ERIN: OK, FAIR. THAT'S TRUE. JOYCE: THAT BRINGS IT INTO PERSPECTIVE. THAT MIGHT HAVE PUT A LITTLE INSTANT FEAR OF GOD, "AHH...OKAY." LISA: RIGHT. ERIN: "OK, SURE, LORD." LISA: A GLOWING GUY WITH WINGS TELLS ME I MIGHT BE PERSUADED A LITTLE MORE THAN I WOULD IN THE NATURAL. ERIN: THAT'S A GOOD POINT. BUT THEN SHE GOES TO ELIZABETH, AND SHE'S JUST ALL IN ON THIS. AND G

OD HAS TOTALLY CHANGED THE PLANS HE HAD FOR HER, BECAUSE BEFORE THE ANGEL CAME, SHE WAS ENGAGED. SHE WAS GONNA HAVE THIS LIFE THAT SHE HAS PLANNED AHEAD OF HER. AND NOW, THE WHOLE THING SPINS, AND SHE'S IN, IN TO GO. AND I THOUGHT, "I WANNA BE LIKE THAT. I WANNA BE THAT INTERRUPTIBLE." JOYCE: WELL, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, ALL THE HEROES, THE BIG PEOPLE WE READ ABOUT-- ABRAHAM, JOSEPH, ESTHER, RUTH. GINGER: SAUL. JOYCE: SAUL. I MEAN, THEY ALL HAD OTHER PLANS... LISA: ABSOLUTELY. JOYCE: FOR THEIR

LIFE. I MEAN, GOD COMES TO ABRAHAM AND SAYS, "WALK AWAY FROM EVERYTHING THAT YOU KNOW, AND GO TO A PLACE THAT I WILL SHOW YOU AFTER YOU GO." WELL, MOST OF US WOULD SAY, "SHOW ME, AND IF I LIKE IT, I'LL GO." LISA: THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. JOYCE: AND BUT HE-- WHAT A TEST OF FAITH. "YOU GO, LEAVE EVERYTHING." AND WHY DID ABRAHAM HAVE TO LEAVE EVERYTHING? BECAUSE HIS FAMILY WERE IDOL WORSHIPPERS, AND GOD HAD TO GET HIM AWAY FROM THAT INFLUENCE. LISA: RIGHT. JOYCE: AND SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, GOD MIGHT BE

ASKING YOU TO LEAVE A GROUP OF FRIENDS YOU HAVE, OR LEAVE A JOB YOU HAVE. GINGER: THAT CAN BE HARD STUFF. JOYCE: AND WE DON'T WANT TO LEAVE THE PLACES WHERE WE'RE COMFORTABLE. BUT SOMETIMES YOU'VE GOT TO LEAVE TO GET TO THE PLACE WHERE GOD REALLY WANTS YOU TO BE. LISA: THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK IT GOES BACK TO-- I LOVE THAT YOU STARTED WITH THAT DEFINITION OF COMFORT AND CONVENIENCE. BECAUSE IN MY OWN TINY LITTLE WORLD, IT'S BEEN IN THE PLACES WHERE HE HAS ROCKED ME OUT OF A COMFORT ZONE, THAT I'M

ACTUALLY MOST ALERT. BECAUSE I'M KIND OF THROWN. I DON'T HAVE MY BEARINGS, AND I NEED HIS VOICE. I CAN'T STEP WITHOUT BREAKING MY ANKLE IF HE DOESN'T TELL ME WHERE TO STEP. SO, I THINK SOME OF IT IS HIS KINDNESS GOING, "I KNOW IF YOU STAY IN THAT PLACE WHERE YOU FIGURED IT OUT, YOU'RE GOING TO BE LESS LIKELY TO TURN TO ME FOR DIRECTION. AND SO, I'M GONNA BASICALLY MESS THINGS UP SO YOU CAN'T WALK OUT YOUR PLAN. BECAUSE IF YOU WALK OUT YOUR PLAN, YOU'RE NOT GONNA WALK IN MINE." GINGER: I MUST BE

ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT GOD REALLY HAS TO JUMP IN FRONT OF. LISA: HE DOES THAT A LOT TO ME. GINGER: YEAH. IT'S LIKE-- I JUST MUST BE ONE OF THOSE THAT HE KNOWS, "I'M GONNA HAVE TO MAKE IT BIG AND OBVIOUS FOR THIS ONE. BECAUSE SHE'S NOT REAL QUICK AT THE TAKE UP, SOMETIMES." JOYCE: I CAN SAY, "AMEN" TO THAT. WE HAD TO OFFER HER A JOB HERE FOUR TIMES BEFORE SHE FINALLY ACCEPTED IT. GINGER: THAT IS A GREAT EXAMPLE. IT'S JUST ALMOST ALL THE MAJOR THINGS IN MY LIFE, I HAD A DIFFERENT THING GOIN' ON.

TIM AND I WERE NOT GONNA HAVE CHILDREN, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I JUST KNEW THAT THAT'S NOT WHAT GOD HAD FOR ME. AND THAT JUST CHANGED LIKE, ONE DAY, WHEN GOD BASICALLY-- I THOUGHT I WAS PREGNANT AND FOUND OUT I WASN'T, AND JUST HAD SUCH DISAPPOINTMENT THAT SHOCKED ME. AND IT WAS GOD SAYING, "YOU SEE, IF YOU OPEN YOUR HEART TO SOME OF THE THINGS YOU THINK YOU DON'T WANT." ERIN: WOW. GINGER: AND THE SAME THING WITH GETTING MARRIED. I DIDN'T THINK I'D WANT TO GET MARRIED. LISA: WERE YOU GONNA BE AN AM

Y CARMICHAEL? JOYCE: BOY, YOU WERE GONNA BE ONE-- GINGER: I REALLY HAD OTHER WAYS THAT I THOUGHT GOD WANTED ME TO DO WHAT HE WANTED. I WOULD TAKE CARE OF CHILDREN IN OTHER WAYS. SO, YOU'RE RIGHT. IT WAS ALWAYS FOLLOWING GOD, BUT IT WAS FOLLOWING GOD MY WAY, AND NOT GOD'S WAY. LISA: OR MAYBE THE WAY IT HAD BEEN MODELED TO YOU. I HAD THAT, "I HAVE TO GO--" ESPECIALLY AS A WOMAN, YOU WERE--ARE SUCH A TRAILBLAZER. BUT I THOUGHT, "I'M A CONSERVATIVE IN THE CHURCH. THE ONLY WAY I CAN WORK FOR GOD IS T

O BE A MISSIONARY IN AFRICA." I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS ANOTHER WAY. GINGER: YEAH. SO, GOD HAS TO JUMP IN FRONT OF A LOT OF US TO JUST KIND OF STOP US IN OUR TRACKS AND SHOW US THAT MY PLAN FOR YOU IS DIFFERENT, BUT IT'S GOOD, AND IT'S SO MUCH BETTER. LISA: AND BETTER THAN ANYTHING YOU COULD DREAM. GINGER: YES, SO MUCH BETTER. JOYCE: WELL, INSTEAD OF PLANNING AND THEN PRAYING THAT GOD WILL MAKE OUR PLAN WORK, WE NEED TO PRAY FIRST, AND FIND OUT WHAT GOD'S PLAN IS. LISA: WAIT, MS. JOYCE, IT'S WRONG

THE OTHER WAY? [LADIES LAUGHING] JOYCE: WHEN WE OFFERED GINGER A JOB, SHE SAID, "NO." SECOND TIME WE OFFERED HER A JOB, SHE SAID, "NO." THIRD TIME, SHE SAID "NO." THE FOURTH TIME, HER AND HER HUSBAND SAID, "WELL, MAYBE WE SHOULD PRAY ABOUT THIS." [LADIES LAUGHING] GINGER: IT DID. IT TOOK US THAT LONG. JOYCE: AND THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO. GINGER: YEAH, YEAH. AND WHEN WE DID IT, WE KIND OF TOLD GOD, "HOW 'BOUT THREE TO FIVE YEARS?" JOYCE: YEAH. GINGER: AND THEN-- ERIN: I LOVE THAT YOU TOLD HIM YOUR

TIMETABLE. HE LISTENED SO WELL. JOYCE: YEAH. GINGER: YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE OBEDIENCE IN MODERATION. [LADIES LAUGHING] JOYCE: THAT'S GOOD. OBEDIENCE IN MODERATION. YOU KNOW THAT-- I CAN USE THAT FOR A TITLE, THAT'LL PREACH. GINGER: WHEN YOU FIND OUT THE GOODNESS OF GOD AND WHAT HE HAS FOR YOU AND HOW IT'S SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOU EVER KNEW, THEN IT CHANGES YOUR PLAN, AND IT CHANGES WHO YOU ARE. AND LISA, I KNOW THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT'S KIND OF BEEN ON YOUR MIND AS WELL, IS ABOUT BEING INTERRUP

TED BY OTHER PEOPLE TO BE THERE FOR WHAT THEY NEED. LISA: OH, 100%. I WAS SITTING IN A CLASS A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, AND WAS JUST LANDBASTED BECAUSE OUR PROFESSOR SAID, "JESUS' MINISTRY TOOK PLACE AT THREE MILES AN HOUR." AND YOU THINK, "WHAT?" AND HE SAID, "HE WALKED EVERYWHERE HE WENT." AND THEN HE SAID, "HOW INTERRUPTIBLE ARE YOU?" AND I'M A PLANNER. I'M A--GONNA GET IT DONE. AND SOME OF IT'S PERSONALITY, AND SOME OF IT IS GIFTING, AND SOME OF IT HAS BEEN SIN, BECAUSE WHEN I WAS GROWING UP, I

KIND OF BALANCED MY WORTH AND MY WORK. I THOUGHT, "IF I'M NOT PRODUCTIVE, GOD HAS ALREADY LOWERED THE BAR TO LET ME INTO THE KINGDOM, AND SO I'VE GOT TO JUST KEEP MY HEAD DOWN AND BE A GOOD GIRL." I COULD TALK ABOUT GRACE, BUT I JUST, I REALLY DIDN'T THINK GOD LIKED ME VERY MUCH. I KNEW HE HAD TO SAVE ME BECAUSE IT WAS IN HIS JOB DESCRIPTION, BUT I ALREADY FELT SO DIRTY, YOU KNOW, BY THE TIME I GAVE MY HEART TO JESUS, I JUST THOUGHT, "I'D BETTER BEHAVE." AND SO, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN A WORKER BEE. IT

'S HARD FOR ME TO-- I'M MUCH MORE MARTHA THAN MARY, STEREOTYPICALLY. BUT WHEN THIS PROFESSOR SAID THAT, I THOUGHT, "OH MY GOODNESS, HERE I AM IN MY LATE 50s, BY THE GRACE OF GOD, I GET TO TALK ABOUT JESUS FOR A LIVING." I THINK I'M RUNNING TOO FAST. BUT I THINK I'M JUST RACING RIGHT PAST MIRACLES. AND I DID A DEEP DIVE INTO WHAT JOYCE HAS PREACHED SO BEAUTIFULLY, SO MANY TIMES, INTO HOW INTERRUPTIBLE JESUS IS. AND A COUPLE OF THE PASSAGES, YOU KNOW, MARK 10, BARTIMAEUS, JESUS IS ON HIS WAY TO EA

STER. HE'S MADE THE TURN. HE'S HEADED TO JERUSALEM. AND THERE'S A BLIND GUY; IT SAYS THE CROWD TELLS HIM TO SHUT UP. AND THE WORD THERE, EPITIMAO, IN GREEK, SAYS BASICALLY IT MEANS "YOU BETTER HUSH UP OR WE'LL HUSH YOU UP". I ALWAYS SAY, "EVERY PARENT HAS EPITIMAO'D YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU AIM THE REAR-VIEW MIRROR SO THAT YOU CAN SMACK THEIR KNEE." SO, THE CROWD DIDN'T JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, "BARTIMAEUS, HUSH." THEY SAID, "IF YOU DON'T HUSH, WE'LL HUSH YOU UP." JESUS IS PASSING BY. A CROWD HAS FORMED, N

OT 'CAUSE THEY TRUSTED HIM AS MESSIAH, BUT BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO SEE IF HE DID TRICKS. THEY HAD GOTTEN THE, YOU KNOW, OLD-FASHIONED FACEBOOK FORWARDS THAT WHEREVER HE WENT, PARALYTICS DID CARTWHEELS. SO, THIS CROWD HAS FORMED. HE'S ON HIS WAY TO JERUSALEM, TO THE CROSS. IT'S THE VERY LAST TIME HE STOPS BEFORE THAT WEEK OF PASSION. AND BARTIMAEUS IN THEIR CULTURE, BECAUSE HE'S BLIND, HE'S COMPLETELY OSTRACIZED. BECAUSE IT WAS ASSUMED IN THE FIRST CENTURY IF YOU HAD AN ONGOING MEDICAL CONDITION,

YOU HAD UNCONFESSED SIN. AND SO, BART IS-- ONE COMMENTATOR SAYS HE'S BASICALLY SITTING ON THE CURB. IT SAYS HE'S AWAY FROM THE CROWD. BUT HE HEARS JESUS IS PASSING BY. OBVIOUSLY, HE DOESN'T SEE HIM. HE'S BLIND. AND HE STARTS HOLLERING, "SON OF DAVID, HAVE MERCY ON ME." OBVIOUSLY, HE BELIEVES THE PROPHECIES THAT JESUS WOULD COME THROUGH THE LINEAGE OF DAVID. SO THAT'S KIND OF LIKE HIS PROFESSION OF FAITH. BUT JESUS IS ON HIS WAY TO EASTER. AND THE CROWD TRIES TO HUSH HIM UP. BART KEEPS HOLLERIN'.

AND TRULY, ONE OF MY FAVORITE VERSES IN THE ENTIRE GOSPEL OF MARK IS THERE AT THE BEGINNING OF VERSE 41 IN MARK CHAPTER 10. IT SAYS, "AND JESUS STOPPED." AND JESUS STOPPED. AND OF COURSE, HE GOES ON TO HEAL BARTIMAEUS. AND IT SAYS BARTIMAEUS FOLLOWED HIM ALONG THE WAY. HE'S COUNTED AMONG THE EARLY CHRISTIANS WHO STARTED THE CHURCH. BUT YOU GO, "JESUS PUTS EASTER ON PAUSE FOR THIS ONE MAN NOBODY ELSE WILL GIVE THE TIME OF DAY TO." AS A MATTER OF FACT, THEY THREATENED TO BEAT HIM UP IF HE DOESN'T

SHUT UP. AND YOU GET THEIR STORY, AFTER STORY, AFTER STORY OF THE KING OF ALL KINGS WOULD SET ASIDE HIS AGENDA, OR WERE PEOPLE HIS AGENDA? YOU KNOW, HE ALWAYS PUT PEOPLE OVER PROTOCOL. JOYCE: WERE PEOPLE HIS AGENDA? THAT'S-- I LIKE THAT. GINGER: I'VE FOUND-- WHEN WE GO INTO OTHER COUNTRIES TO SEE OUR HAND OF HOPE OUTREACHES-- AND BY THE WAY, JOYCE, THANK YOU FOR BEING SO PERSISTENT AND CONTINUING TO ASK ME BECAUSE IT'S BEEN SUCH A JOY AND A PLEASURE. BUT WE'RE WORKING REALLY HARD. WE DON'T HAVE

A LOT OF TIME. AND WE'RE TRYING TO GET A LOT DONE. AND WE HAVE A DEFINITE AGENDA AND A LOT TO DO. AND ONE OF MY VERY, VERY FAVORITE THINGS IS TO BE INTERRUPTED BY THE KIDS. LISA: OH, YEAH. GINGER: [EMOTIONAL] IT MAKES ME SO HAPPY BECAUSE THEY HAVE SUCH NEED, AND THEY HAVE SUCH HARDSHIPS IN THEIR LIFE. AND WE'RE VERY BUSY. SO, EVERYONE'S RUNNING AND DOING THEIR THING. AND THEN, SOMEONE WILL JUST COME UP, AND LIKE, GRAB MY LEG OR, YOU KNOW, PULL ON MY SHIRT. AND YOU LOOK DOWN, AND YOU HAVE A FRIE

ND FOR LIFE. JOYCE: RIGHT. GINGER: I MEAN, THEY-- SO OFTEN, AT THESE TIMES, I'LL HAVE AT LEAST ONE, IF NOT SEVERAL, THAT ARE JUST KIND OF MY SIDEKICK FOR THE REST OF TIME. LISA: RIGHT, YOUR VELCRO KIDS. GINGER: YEAH, EXACTLY. AND IT'S THE MOST WONDERFUL THING. AND IT WOULD BE SO EASY TO JUST KEEP DOING WHAT WE KNOW WE NEED TO DO AND PAT 'EM ON THE HEAD, AND GO ON BECAUSE THAT'S OUR JOB. THAT'S THE MINISTRY. THAT'S WHAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPENING. BUT I WOULD MISS OUT ON SUCH JOY. IT'S NOT ABOUT

WHAT WE'RE GIVING THEM. IT'S SO OFTEN ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE GIVING US. SO, THOSE INTERRUPTIONS THAT YOU THINK ARE AN INCONVENIENCE SOMETIMES ARE THE GREATEST THINGS THAT CAN EVER HAPPEN. LISA: ARE SO HOLY, WHEN YOU'RE MODELING JESUS. I LOVE THAT EVE AND THE DISCIPLES TOLD THE KIDS-- I ALWAYS IMAGINE THAT STORY, MS. JOYCE, 'CAUSE I LIKE TO PUT THINGS IN MODERN CONTEXT BECAUSE THEY ARE REAL STORIES. SO, IF THEY WERE TO HAPPEN TODAY, WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE? AND SO, I ALWAYS IMAGINE JESUS AND THE DISC

IPLES IN THE FOOD COURT OF THE MALL. AND JESUS AND THE DISCIPLES-- I MEAN, THE DISCIPLES HAVE GONE DOWN TO SEARS, IF THEY EVEN HAVE SEARS ANYMORE, TO GET SOME CAMPING EQUIPMENT. [GINGER LAUGHS] LISA: AND PETER AND JESUS ARE STANDING IN FRONT OF CHICK-FIL-A 'CAUSE IT'S A CHRISTIAN COMPANY AND THEY'RE ABOUT TO ORDER. AND THESE LITTLE KIDS, THEIR MOMS ARE HOMESCHOOL MOMS. AND SO, THEY'RE IN COMAS. THEY JUST HAVE GONE TO THE MALL FOR A LESSON ON CAPITALISM BECAUSE THEY'RE SO TIRED OF THESE CHILDREN.

AND THE LITTLE BOYS ARE OVER HERE IN A TABLE. THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, EATING SUGAR. AND ONE OF 'EM RECOGNIZES JESUS. AND THEY MAKE A BEELINE FOR JESUS. AND PETER, ONE OF THE THREE CLOSEST TO JESUS SAYS, "NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. Y'ALL HOLD UP. Y'ALL ARE ALL STICKY. YOU GOT APPLE PIE GOO ON YOUR SHIRT. YOU GO TO THE BATHROOM, CLEAN YOURSELVES UP. AND WHEN YOU COME BACK HERE, YOU FORM A SINGLE-FILE LINE." AND JESUS SAYS, "NO, PETE. LET 'EM PASS." AND THOSE KIDS JUST LAUNCH THEMSELVES, MESSY, STICKY

KIDS, INTO THE LAP OF THE MESSIAH. AND YOU GO, "MY GOODNESS." AND OF COURSE, THERE'S-- WE HAVE TO GET OUR WORK DONE. IF YOU'RE AT A CONFERENCE, YOU HAVE TO MAKE IT TO TEACH TO THE 20,000 PEOPLE WHO ARE THERE. YOU CAN'T TALK TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON. BUT I'VE SEEN YOU, MS. JOYCE, OVER AND OVER AGAIN MAKE TIME FOR PEOPLE AND FOR THAT ONE PERSON-- I HAVE SO MANY STORIES OF PEOPLE WHO GO, "[GASP] YOU KNOW JOYCE MEYER?" AND I'M LIKE, "WELL, NOT REAL WELL, BUT I SURE DO LIKE HER." AND THEY'LL SAY, "ONE

TIME--" AND THEN THEY'LL GO BACK TO A DATE 20 YEARS AGO. "SHE LOOKED ME IN THE EYES-- I'D WATCHED HER ON TELEVISION FOR YEARS. SHE'S SHAPED MY WALK WITH JESUS. BUT SHE SAID, 'HELLO, AND HOW ARE YOU DOING?'" AND THAT MOMENT FOR THEM, YOU WERE JESUS WITH SKIN ON. BECAUSE YOU STOPPED, AND YOU SAID, "YOU MATTER." AND WE'RE SUPPOSED TO MODEL THAT. JOYCE: PRAY THAT I ALWAYS DO. LISA: WELL, YOU DO AS MUCH AS YOU CAN. YOU DO AS OFTEN AS YOU CAN. AND I JUST--I HAVE TO TELL MYSELF SOMETIMES, "IT'S ALWAYS

PEOPLE OVER PROGRAM. IT'S ALWAYS PEOPLE OVER PROTOCOL. IT'S ALWAYS PEOPLE. PEOPLE MATTER TO GOD." JOYCE: AND WE DO HAVE TO KEEP REMINDING OURSELVES OF THAT. YOU KNOW, WHEN WE FIRST STARTED GOING OUT OF THE COUNTRY, I REMEMBER ESPECIALLY IN AFRICA, YOU KNOW, I WENT-- I HAD AN AGENDA. I HAD-- GINGER: YOU HAD A BIG AGENDA. JOYCE: YEAH, I HAD SO MANY THINGS. I MEAN, I FELT LIKE WHEN THEY PUT THE TRIPS TOGETHER THEN, THEY WERE GOING TO GET EVERY OUNCE OUT OF ME THAT THEY COULD. AND I HAD TO LEARN TH

AT PEOPLE IN A LOT OF THESE OTHER COUNTRIES, THEY ARE MUCH MORE RELATIONSHIP ORIENTED THAN THEY ARE WORK ORIENTED. AND IT WAS OFFENSIVE TO THEM IF WE DID NOT TAKE THE TIME TO EAT WITH THEM, TO SEE THEIR CULTURAL DANCE, TO LISTEN TO THE SONGS THAT THE KIDS HAD PREPARED. AND, YOU KNOW, IN THE BEGINNING, I WAS ALL ANTSY INSIDE. IT'S LIKE, "I'VE GOT TO GET TO WORK, HERE." GINGER: TALK ABOUT INTERRUPTION, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE HEARD, "JUST FIVE MORE SONGS?" [LADIES LAUGHING] JOYCE: YEAH. "JUST FIVE

MORE SONGS," YEAH. I'M LIKE, "FIVE. FIVE MORE SONGS." LISA: AFTER YOU'VE EATEN MYSTERY MEAT, AND YOU'RE SICK IN THE HEAT. JOYCE: YEAH. AND--BUT GOD REALLY-- IT REALLY BOTHERS HIM WHEN WE MISTREAT PEOPLE. LISA: I AGREE. JOYCE: I HAD TO REALLY LEARN THAT, THAT IT BOTHERS HIM WHEN WE MISTREAT PEOPLE. AND ONE OF THE BEST STORIES IS THE STORY OF THE GOOD SAMARITAN. BECAUSE YOU HAVE THIS MAN LYING ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD THAT HAD BEEN BEATEN UP AND WAS BLEEDING. AND TWO RELIGIOUS PEOPLE, A PRIEST AND

A LEVI, SAW HIM AND CROSSED OVER TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET SO THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO REALLY SEE HIM. LISA: THAT'S RIGHT. JOYCE: AND WONDER HOW MANY TIMES WE'VE CROSSED OVER TO THE OTHER SIDE SO WE DON'T REALLY HAVE TO FACE IT. BUT THEN THE SAMARITAN COMES ALONG, WHO'S NOT EVEN REALLY ON PAGE WITH THEM RELIGIOUSLY. BUT HE WAS GOING SOMEWHERE. BUT HE STOPPED, BANDAGED HIS WOUNDS, PUT HIM ON HIS HORSE, TOOK HIM TO AN INN. AND THE THING THAT I LOVE-- HE COULDN'T STAY. HE HAD TO GO SOMEWHERE. BUT

HE SAID, "YOU TAKE CARE OF HIM TILL I GET BACK, AND I'LL PAY YOU WHATEVER IT COSTS." HE DIDN'T PUT ANY LIMITS ON WHAT HE WOULD SPEND. LISA: RIGHT, I LOVE THAT. JOYCE: THAT, TO ME, IS ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING-- LISA: OH, I LOVE IT. JOYCE: HE SAID, "WHATEVER IT COSTS, I'LL PAY IT." I WONDER WHAT OUR LIVES WOULD BE LIKE IF OUR ATTITUDE WAS, "LORD, I WANT TO FOLLOW YOU. WHATEVER IT COSTS, IT DOESN'T MATTER." LISA: AND LUKE-- I LOVE LUKE'S CONTEXT, BECAUSE HE'S THE ONLY ONE WHO TELLS THAT STORY. A

ND LUKE, HE'S THE ONLY GENTILE AUTHOR OF SCRIPTURE THAT WE KNOW OF. SO, HE WAS AN OUTSIDER. HE'S NOT CONSIDERED CLEAN, BECAUSE HE'S A GENTILE. I LOVE THAT HE MAKES THE SAMARITAN THE HERO, BECAUSE THE SAMARITANS WERE CONSIDERED DIRTY HALF-BREEDS WHEN YOU GO BACK TO ASSYRIA AND THE JEWS AND ALL THE STUFF. AND I COULD SEE HIM MAKING THE SAMARITAN THE GUY IN THE DITCH WHO NEEDED OUR HELP. BUT INSTEAD, HE MAKES HIM THE HERO. AND THE PRIEST AND LEVI-- THEY'RE COMING HOME FROM TEMPLE. THEY DON'T HAVE T

O KEEP THEMSELVES CLEAN. THEY'RE GOING TO THE SUBURBS. THEY COULD HAVE HELPED THE GUY, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO STAY CEREMONIALLY PURE, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TEMPLE. THEY'RE HEADED HOME ON SOME R AND R. EVERY FACET OF THAT STORY JUST SCREAMS, "PEOPLE MATTER. PEOPLE MATTER. PEOPLE MATTER. STATUS DOESN'T. YOU KNOW, ETHNICITY DOESN'T. SOCIODEMOGRAPHICS DON'T. PEOPLE MATTER. SEE PEOPLE." AND I THINK, SOME OF US, I THINK, ARE JUST GONNA HAVE OUR HAIR BLOWN BACK WHEN WE GET TO GLORY. WE'RE I

N THE SUBSIDIZED APARTMENTS AT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE MANSIONS. AND I KNOW THAT'S NOT THEOLOGICALLY SOUND. WE'RE ALL GONNA HAVE THE SAME HOUSES. GINGER: [LAUGHS] WHATEVER. NOT THEOLOGICALLY SOUND. LISA: BUT I'M LIKE, I LOVE THE WAY GOD DOESN'T JUST SHOW COMPASSION FOR THE LEAST OF THESE. HE MAKES THEM THE HEROES IN THE STORY. AND I'M LIKE, MAN, WE MISS IT THE WAY WE HAVE HIERARCHY. AND WE SEE PEOPLE AS INTERRUPTIONS INSTEAD OF AS, YOU KNOW, MIRACLES. JOYCE: HOW MANY PEOPLE PUT THEIR RELIGIOSI

TY ABOVE JUST DEALING WITH THE HURTING AND THE-- [LADIES AGREEING] ERIN: I HAVE TO SAY THIS, TOO. I MEAN, I HAVE TEARS IN MY EYES TO THINK OF, LIKE, SITTING WITH THE THREE OF YOU. I'LL TRY TO DO MY BEST TO NOT SOB THROUGH SAYING THIS TO YOU, BUT, LIKE, YOU COULD-- YOU ARE JOYCE MEYER. AND YOU HAVE TAUGHT AROUND THE WORLD. BUT YOU WILL HELP ANYBODY WHO NEEDS HELP. AND YOU WILL-- IF GOD PUTS A PEOPLE GROUP ON YOUR HEART, YOU'LL GO TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH TO HELP THEM. IF GOD PUTS FOSTER CARE ON Y

OUR HEART, YOU'RE GONNA MAKE A CHANGE. AND YOU SEE PEOPLE THAT NONE OF THE REST OF US SOMETIMES STOP TO SEE. AND THE TWO OF YOU-- I MEAN, TO BE AROUND THESE AMAZING WOMEN WHO-- YOU GUYS-- YOU HAVE POSITIONS THAT YOU COULD FEEL REALLY CONFIDENT IN YOURSELVES. AND YOU'RE THE MOST GENUINE, HUMBLE PEOPLE THAT I'VE EVER MET. JOYCE: YEAH, WELL, IT TOOK A WHILE. ERIN: THE WAY THAT GOD IS USING YOU-- JOYCE: I MEAN, GOD HAD TO DEAL WITH ME PRETTY STRONG, FIRMLY, TO GET ME TO THE POINT WHERE I'M AT. AND W

HEN I GOT IT THROUGH MY HEAD THAT IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO GOD-- AND MY RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM, IS HOW I TREAT PEOPLE. THAT'S WHERE WE SHOW OUR LOVE FOR GOD. BECAUSE HE SAID, "IF YOU'VE DONE IT UNDER THE LEAST OF THESE, MY BRETHREN, YOU'VE DONE IT UNDER--" THE LEAST. AND IF YOU HAVE NOT-- I MEAN, THAT'S REALLY ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL SCRIPTURES IN THE BIBLE TO THINK ABOUT. HE BASICALLY-- "HOW YOU TREAT PEOPLE IS HOW YOU'RE TREATING ME." LISA: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. JOYCE: AND SO, I HAVE TH

E REVERENTIAL FEAR OF GOD ON ME ABOUT MISTREATING PEOPLE. AND WHAT IS MINISTRY ABOUT? IT'S ABOUT MEETING NEEDS. LISA: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. JOYCE: IT'S NOT ABOUT BEING FAMOUS OR WELL-KNOWN OR-- GINGER: AND WE'RE ALL IN MINISTRY. [LADIES AGREEING] JOYCE: THINKING YOU'RE A BIG SHOT BECAUSE YOU'RE ON TELEVISION, YOU KNOW. I WOULD BE NOWHERE IF GOD DIDN'T PUT ME THERE. AND I CERTAINLY COULDN'T KEEP MYSELF THERE. AND SO, I APPRECIATE THE COMPLIMENT, BUT I HAVE TO GIVE IT BACK TO GOD. ERIN: LOOK AT ALL

THE TEARS, JOYCE. IT JUST MADE ME SO EMOTIONAL FOR A SECOND. BUT WHAT IT DOES TO ME-- I'M A MOM WITH A COUPLE KIDS AT HOME. AND I THINK, THOSE ARE MY PEOPLE. SO, I NEED TO LET MYSELF BE INTERRUPTIBLE FOR THOSE TWO KIDS. "I AM--MOM IS WORKING RIGHT NOW." "I AM DOING THINGS FOR JESUS, SO DON'T TALK TO ME." JOYCE: YEAH, RIGHT. ERIN: "I AM WORKING FOR THE LORD." "BUT MOM, I HAD A REALLY HARD DAY AT SCHOOL. I NEED YOU TO STOP AND TALK TO ME." SO, I NEED TO TAKE THESE LESSONS AND APPLY THEM TO MY LIFE

AS A MOM AT HOME AND BE INTERRUPTIBLE. JOYCE: WELL, I CAN TELL YOU A FUNNY STORY. I WAS GOING TO PREACH ONE NIGHT, AND WE GOT STOPPED BY A TRAIN. AND IT WAS A LONG TRAIN. LISA: I BET YOU ENJOYED IT. AND I WAS GOING--IT LOOKED LIKE I WAS GOING TO BE LATE. AND THERE'S NOTHING I DISLIKE WORSE THAN BEING LATE WHEN I'M SUPPOSED TO PREACH. I JUST CAN'T STAND THAT. I REALLY LIKE TO BE ON TIME. AND SO, THE TRAIN PASSES, AND WE GET A LITTLE WAYS DOWN. AND THEN DAVE STOPS TO LET A COUPLE OF PEOPLE INTO T

HE LINE OF TRAFFIC. AND I SAID, "WE DON'T HAVE TIME--" I SAID, "WE'VE GOTTA GO. WE DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THAT!" HE SAID, "WELL, I'M JUST TRYING TO BE NICE." I SAID, "I DON'T HAVE TIME TO BE NICE. I'M TRYING TO GET TO CHURCH!" [LADIES LAUGHING] JOYCE: AND THEN, OF COURSE, I HAD TO TELL ON MYSELF AT CHURCH. IT'S LIKE, "I DON'T HAVE TIME TO BE NICE RIGHT NOW; I'VE GOTTA GET TO CHURCH." THAT'S THE WAY WE ARE SOMETIMES. LISA: BUT IT'S OUR CULTURE. IT'S ALSO FIRST WORLD CULTURE. IT'S PRODUCE, PRODUCE, P

RODUCE, PRODUCE. ONE OF THE BEST THINGS-- BECAUSE I GET A LOT OF GENTLE SPANKINGS FROM THE LORD, BECAUSE I'M SUCH A SLOW LEARNER. JOYCE: I'M GLAD YOURS ARE GENTLE. LISA: WELL, I WAS TRYING TO BE POLITE. SOME OF 'EM REALLY WALLOWED ME. BUT THE FIRST TIME I WENT TO MEET MISSY, IN HAITI, MY DAUGHTER, WHO I GOT THROUGH THE MIRACLE OF ADOPTION-- I JUST COULDN'T STOP HUGGIN' PEOPLE. AND I DIDN'T KNOW HOW CONTAGIOUS SCABIES WAS. AND THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES, BASICALLY FULL BODY LICE. AND I WAS ITCHING A L

OT, BUT IT WAS HOT. AND I WAS IN MENOPAUSE. I WAS ALWAYS HOT OR ITCHY OR SOMETHING ANYWAY. [LADIES LAUGHING] LISA: WELL, ANYWAY, I HAD TO GO STRAIGHT FROM HAITI TO SPEAK AT A CONFERENCE. I WON'T SAY WHERE IT WAS, 'CAUSE THERE'S STILL PEOPLE THERE THAT ARE MAD AT ME. [LADIES LAUGHING] LISA: BUT I GO TO THIS CONFERENCE. AND LIKE THREE DAYS IN THE CONFERENCE, I JUST HAD THIS--YOU KNOW HOW SOMETIMES YOU'LL BE TALKING OR SHARING WITH A GROUP OF PEOPLE, AND YOU'LL HAVE LIKE THE BALLOON OVER YOUR HEAD?

LIKE YOU'LL THINK, "WELL, THAT'S JUST CURIOUS." AND YOU'RE THINKING SOMETHING THAT IS NOT COMING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH. AND I THOUGHT, "THAT'S THE WEIRDEST THING THAT ALL THESE WOMEN ARE ITCHIN'." AND I WENT... [GASPING] GINGER: OH, NO. LISA: I HAD GIVEN THIS ENTIRE CONFERENCE THIS-- GINGER: TALK ABOUT SHARING THE LOVE. LISA: YOU GET THIS STUFF CALLED PERMETHRIN FROM WALGREENS. IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL. YOU GET RID OF IT, YOU JUST HAVE TO BURN YOUR CLOTHES. BUT ANYWAY, AS I'M LEAVING AND THEY HAD TO RAC

E ME TO THE PLANE, I WAS ABOUT TO MISS MY FLIGHT. I'M TELLING THE GUY WHO RUNS THE WHOLE THING, AND HE WAS NEW, AND HE WAS TRYING TO LIKE MAKE EVERYTHING ALL NICE. AND I SAID, "I'VE GIVEN ALL THE WOMEN, HERE, SCABIES." [LADIES LAUGHING] LISA: AND HE THOUGHT I WAS TEASING HIM. AND I SAID, "OH, NO, SIR, I'M NOT PLAYIN'." I SAID, "HERE'S WHAT YOU NEED TO GET." GINGER: "IT'S SOME SORT OF SPIRITUAL THING, RIGHT?" LISA: AND HE LOOKED AT ME LIKE, "YOU NUT JOB! YOU HAVE JUST INFECTED--" I WAS LIKE, "I'M

SO SORRY. I DIDN'T MEAN TO." BUT IT WAS SO GOOD FOR ME BECAUSE GOD WAS LIKE, "YOUR BABY GOES THROUGH THIS EVERY DAY. "EVERY DAY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD ARE HUNGRY AND THEY ITCH. YOU GET A PRESCRIPTION AT WALGREENS, AND IT'LL BE OVER IN A WEEK. IT IS GOOD FOR YOU TO REMEMBER PEOPLE." AND I THOUGHT, "I'M GONNA HAVE TO MAKE A LITTLE SERMON ABOUT WHY WE ALL NEED SCABIES EVERY NOW AND THEN." BECAUSE IT JUST MAKES YOU MORE COMPASSIONATE. GINGER: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. AND YOUR LIFE WAS MAJORLY

INTERRUPTED WHEN GOD BROUGHT YOU THIS BEAUTIFUL LITTLE GIRL AND SAID, "THINGS ARE GONNA CHANGE, NOW." LISA: OH, DRAMATICALLY! I HAD TO--I WAS TELLIN' SOMEBODY RECENTLY-- I BECAME A MOM AT THE AGE OF 50 THROUGH THE MIRACLE OF ADOPTION. I LOST TWO BABIES BEFORE MISSY. AND I'M HONESTLY NOT SURE I WOULD'VE BEEN BRAVE ENOUGH BECAUSE I HAD EVERYTHING KINDA PLANNED. AND LOSING THE SECOND CHILD JUST FOUR DAYS BEFORE I WAS SUPPOSED TO BRING HER HOME, IT JUST WRECKED ME. AND I REMEMBER THINKING, IF HE DI

DN'T ALLOW MY HEART TO BE SO EVISCERATED, I DON'T KNOW IF I'D BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO GIVE IT AWAY. IT WAS KIND OF ALREADY IN PIECES. AND IT TOOK TWO YEARS. MISSY ALMOST DIED A COUPLE OF TIMES DURING THE ADOPTION PROCESS. BUT SOMEWHERE IN MY STUBBORN, CROOKED HEART, I THOUGHT ONCE I BROUGHT HER HOME, IT WOULD BE EASY. [LAUGHS] AND I MEAN, I'VE NEVER BEEN SO TIRED. AND I HAD TO CALL... [LADIES LAUGHING] LISA: FRIENDS OF MINE BECAUSE I THOUGHT, "I'M SINGLE--" JOYCE: HOW OLD WAS SHE WHEN YOU GOT HER? LI

SA: SHE-- I BROUGHT HER HOME-- SHE WAS FOUR AND A HALF. SHE WAS TWO AND A HALF WHEN I STARTED THE PROCESS RIGHT AFTER HER FIRST MAMA DIED. AND SHE DIDN'T SPEAK A LICK OF ENGLISH. SHE WAS REAL SICK. AND STILL, I HAD EVERYTHING ORGANIZED. YOU KNOW, I HAD BINS WITH SIGNS ON THE BINS. ERIN: LABELED BINS. LISA: "MAN, WE'RE GONNA KNOCK THIS PUPPY OUT." AND, AS A MATTER OF FACT, CHRISTMAS ALWAYS REMINDS ME OF OUR FIRST CHRISTMAS TOGETHER. MISSY GOT REAL SICK DURING THE NIGHT. SO, I PULLED HER INTO MY B

ED. THIS IS WAY TMI FOR A CHRISTIAN PODCAST. BUT-- GINGER: GO FOR IT. THAT'S WHAT WE ARE ALL ABOUT. LISA: LISTEN, JOYCE IS MY SPIRITUAL MENTOR. I'M JUST GONNA BE HONEST. AND I PUT HER IN MY BED BECAUSE SHE HAD A FEVER. AND BECAUSE OF SOME OF MISSY'S MEDICAL CONDITIONS, IF SHE GETS SICK, IT CAN BE PRETTY SERIOUS. AND SO, YOU KNOW, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, JUST THE ANTENNAE, YOUR MAMA ANTENNAE WILL GO OFF. AND I WOKE UP, AND I JUST STUCK MY HAND OVER ON HER FOREHEAD TO SEE IF IT WAS HOT. AND IT

WAS WET. AND YOU'RE REELING FOR THE LIGHT BECAUSE I'M THINKING IT'S A FEVER. AND AS I'M GOING TO TURN ON THE LIGHT, MY NOSE SAID, "THAT'S NOT FEVER." AND SHE HAD GOTTEN REALLY SICK OUT OF BOTH ENDS. AND IT WAS ON THE WALL. I MEAN, IT WAS EVERYWHERE, IN HER HAIR, IN MY HAIR. AND I WAS LIKE, "AH! AH!" I WAS SPEAKING-- MS. JOYCE, CHRIS-- CHRIS CAINE WAS COMING TO TOWN, AND WE WERE DOING THIS BIG, LIKE, FANCY CHRISTMAS EXTRAVAGANZA THAT MORNING. AND SO, IT'S 3 O'CLOCK MORNING. JOYCE: EXTRAVAGANZA.

WE'VE NEVER DONE AN EXTRAVAGANZA. LISA: OH, MY HEAVENS. I AM CLEANING HORRIBLE STUFF OFF THE WALLS, OUTTA THE THING. I LIVED IN THE COUNTRY. I JUST TOOK MY BEDDING AND THREW IT OUT IN THE GRASS. I THOUGHT, "I'LL DEAL WITH IT LATER. CAN'T EVEN DEAL WITH THAT NOW." WELL, I GET TO THIS CHRISTM-- OF COURSE, I HADN'T SLEPT. I HAVEN'T SLEPT A WINK. I'M JUST-- I'M DRIVING TO THIS THING TO SPEAK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE WONDER OF ADVENT. [LADIES LAUGHING] LISA: AND I GET THERE. AND THERE'S-- A FRIEND OF MIN

E THERE HAS SIX KIDS. AND SHE SAID, "WELL, YOU SEEM A LITTLE TIRED." I WAS LIKE, "I'M EXHAUSTED!!" AND SHE SAID, "WHAT WERE YOU DOING?" I SAID, "WELL, I WAS CLEANING POO-POO OUT OF MY CHILD'S BRAIDS." AND SHE SAID, "WELL, LISA, YOU'VE NEVER HAD AN EPISIOTOMY, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS TO BE A MOTHER, NOW." [LADIES LAUGHING] LISA: BUT IT WAS THAT-- THIS IS WHAT BEING A MOM IS. THIS IS WHAT BEING A SPIRITUAL MOTHER IS. IT'S MESSY. AND IT'S ALL ABOUT PEOPLE. AND IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOUR SERMON RHYME

S. IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY FOLLOWERS. IT MATTERS HOW WELL YOU LOVE THE PEOPLE GOD ALLOWS YOU TO RUB SHOULDERS WITH. THAT'S THE GOSPEL. HE MADE HIMSELF NOTHING TO BE MADE IN HUMAN FORM TO LOVE US, RAT FINKS LIKE US. WE COULD AT LEAST DO SOME MEASURE OF THAT SAME KINDNESS TO THE PEOPLE WE GET TO BE WITH. JOYCE: AND WE HAVE TO REMIND OURSELVES OF THIS ALL THE TIME, OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER. I PREACH ABOUT THIS A LOT. AND IF NOTHING ELSE, I PREACH IT FOR ME. BECAUSE WE ARE SO NATURALLY SELFISH AN

D SELF-CENTERED THAT WE REALLY--IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN FRONT OF YOU. [LADIES AGREEING] JOYCE: IT'S SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO DO ON PURPOSE. THERE ARE SOME THINGS YOU MAY DO ACCIDENTALLY, BUT THIS IS SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO DO ON PURPOSE. LISA: I LOVE THAT IT'S ON THE BUILDING, MS. JOYCE. THAT YOU DRIVE UP AND YOU SEE, "LOVE GOD, LOVE PEOPLE." YOU KNOW, THE BODY OF CHRIST IS A METAPHOR. IT'S WHAT WE WERE MADE FOR. I LOVE THAT YOUR MINISTRY-- YOUR MINISTRY JUST-- THAT IS YOUR MINISTRY.

IT'S YOUR HEART. I LOVE THAT Y'ALL LOVE PEOPLE SO WELL FOR THE SAKE OF CHRIST. GINGER: LIKE YOU WERE SAYING, IT DOES NOT COME NATURALLY TO MOST OF US. I MEAN, ERIN, YOUR WORDS WERE SO KIND. AND I THINK ABOUT THE WAY THAT GOD HAS TO JUMP OUT IN FRONT OF US TO TEACH US THESE THINGS. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS REALLY HELPED ME LEARN SO MUCH IS JUST ABOUT HOW THIS IS ALL ABOUT SURRENDER. BECAUSE WE WANNA HOLD ONTO THE THINGS WE WANT TO HOLD ONTO. WE'VE GOT TO LET GO OF THINGS TO LOVE PEOPLE WELL

. AND THE OTHER IS HUMILITY. BECAUSE WHEN I THINK THAT I'M TOO GOOD... ERIN: OH ABSOLUTELY. GINGER: TO STOP, TO STOOP DOWN, TO DO WHATEVER IT MAY BE-- AND NOBODY THINKS THAT ON THE OUTSIDE, BUT THAT IS THE ANSWER. YOU KNOW, IF I DON'T DO IT, IT'S BECAUSE I THINK I'M MORE IMPORTANT THAN THEY ARE. AND SO, WHEN GOD GIVES YOU THAT REVELATION, WOW. TALK ABOUT THE LOVE THAT COMES OUT OF THAT, BECAUSE YOU REALIZE, "I'M NOTHING. I AM NOTHING." AND SO, YOU HAVE TO KIND OF WALK IN THAT, AND BUILD IT, AND

DEVELOP IT ALL THE TIME, AND MESS IT UP, AND START ALL OVER, AND DO IT AGAIN. AND I THINK ABOUT YOU, ERIN, AND SO MANY OTHERS, AND WHERE WE'VE BEEN AS A YOUNG MOM, TRYING TO DO THAT WITH KIDS EVERY DAY. I MEAN, THAT IS LIVING IN SURRENDER. THAT IS WALKING IN HUMILITY AND LOVING PEOPLE ALL THE TIME. SO, WHAT ENCOURAGEMENT WOULD YOU HAVE FOR YOUNG MOMS WHO ARE DOING THIS NOW? ERIN: WELL-- BECAUSE I KNOW YOU'VE GOT IT. [LADIES LAUGHING] ERIN: LET ME TELL YOU. JOYCE: WELL, PRAY A LOT. ERIN: YEAH, WE

PRAY A LOT. SOMETIMES, WE JUST CRY, AND IT'S OK. ACTUALLY, WHAT COMES TO MY MIND WHEN YOU SAY THAT IS, IN AREAS WHERE I'VE STRUGGLED WITH-- THIS FEELS SUPER OFF TOPIC-- BUT WHEN I'VE STRUGGLED WITH ANXIETY, IT'S BECAUSE I'M BEING INTERRUPTED, USUALLY BY MY KIDS. "I DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS THING BECAUSE MY KID MIGHT THROW UP IN THE NIGHT, AND I'LL HAVE TO CLEAN UP OFF THE WALL," OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE. AND GOD HAS SHOWN ME SO MANY TIMES, "THAT'S NOT THE POINT. THE POINT IS THAT KID IS THE ONE W

HO NEEDS YOU IN THAT MOMENT, AND THEY ARE NOT AN INTERRUPTION TO YOUR LIFE. THEY'RE THE REASON THAT-- THEIR LIFE IS IN YOUR HANDS RIGHT NOW. I'M TRUSTING THEM WITH YOU." SO, IT IS HUMBLING MYSELF AND REMINDING MYSELF, "THESE ARE GIFTS, AND THEY'RE NOT AN ANNOYANCE." SOMETIMES. BUT THEY'RE NOT AN INTERRUPTION. THEY'RE THE POINT. THEY'RE THE POINT OF WHY I'M HERE. AND GOD WILL SORT OUT THE REST OF IT. I JUST DO THE BEST I CAN. BUT THAT IS THE POINT. JOYCE: I THINK TO BRING IT IN BALANCE, BECAUSE T

HERE'S ALWAYS A BALANCE. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERYBODY WHO WANTS TO INTERRUPT YOU, YOU SHOULD ALWAYS STOP... ERIN: OH, THAT'S SO GOOD. JOYCE: AND JUST DO WHAT EVERYBODY WANTS YOU TO DO, EVEN YOUR KIDS. LISA: SURE. ERIN: I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT BOUNDARIES. JOYCE: YEAH. SO, WE HAVE TO--WE DO HAVE A MANDATE FROM GOD OF WHAT HE WANTS US TO GET DONE. AND THE DEVIL WILL USE WELL-MEANING BUT UNSUSPECTING PEOPLE TO DERAIL YOU AND GET YOU OFF TRACK. SO, YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE HOLY SPIRIT IN T

HIS TOO AND KNOW WHEN TO SAY, "YES" AND WHEN TO SAY, "NO." LISA: IT'S LIKE WE WERE TALKING IN ANOTHER PODCAST ABOUT THE WHOLE OF SCRIPTURE. BECAUSE WHEN YOU SAID THAT, I THOUGHT, REMEMBER NEHEMIAH AND THE WALL. AND HE HAD TO GO, "NO, I'M NOT COMING OFF THE WALL." AND THERE WERE SOME LEGITIMATE PEOPLE SAYING, "COME DO THIS." AND HE SAID, "NOPE, THIS IS MY MAIN PURPOSE RIGHT NOW." I LOVE THAT YOU USED THE WORD "STOOP." IT'S ONE OF MY FAVORITE WAYS TO THINK ABOUT JESUS. THE KING OF ALL KINGS, THE M

ESSIAH, PERFECTLY HOLY, PERFECTLY TRANSCENDENT, CONDESCENDS. AND I THINK OF HIM THAT, YOU KNOW, THE PASSOVER, WHEN HE STOOPED, AND TOOK ON THE FORM OF A SERVANT, WRAPPED A TOWEL AROUND HIS WAIST, AND WASHED THEIR NASTY FEET. THEY WALKED EVERYWHERE THEY WENT. THEY'VE GOT GRIMY FEET. AND HE WASHES THEIR FEET. AND I THINK--AND IT WAS ONE OF THOSE CONUNDRUMS, I THINK, DID HE KNOW THAT WHEN HE LAID DOWN HIS SCEPTER IN GLORY THAT HE'D BE PICKING UP A TOWEL AND WASHING OUR NASTY FEET? AND YET HE SAID,

"THIS IS-- I DIDN'T COME TO BE SERVED. I CAME TO SERVE AND GIVE MY LIFE AS A RANSOM FOR MANY." AND SO, SOMETIMES, I'M NOT WISE ENOUGH TO KNOW WHEN I STAY ON THE WALL AND WHEN I STOOP. BUT IF I'M GONNA TO ERR, I'D LIKE PEOPLE TO BE MY MISTAKE. JOYCE: YEAH, THAT'S GOOD. GINGER: YEAH. JOYCE: YOU KNOW, THERE'S A SCRIPTURE THAT I WANNA SHARE BEFORE OUR TIME'S UP, TODAY. THIS TAUGHT ME A LOT, AND I THINK IT'S A GOOD LESSON. YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU THINK OF SODOM AND GOMORRAH AND GOD DESTROYED THEM. AND WE

USUALLY THINK IT WAS BECAUSE OF SEXUAL SIN. AND--BUT THIS IS WHAT EZEKIEL 16:49 SAYS, "BEHOLD, THIS WAS THE GUILT OF YOUR SISTER SODOM: SHE AND HER DAUGHTERS HAD PRIDE, EXCESS OF FOOD, AND PROSPEROUS EASE, AND THEY DID NOT AID THE POOR AND THE NEEDY." LISA: WOW. JOYCE: AND THAT WAS WHAT DESTROYED THEM. IT WASN'T--NOT THAT THE SEXUAL SIN WAS RIGHT, BUT THAT WASN'T REALLY WHY THEY WERE DESTROYED. MATTER OF FACT, THESE OTHER THINGS MAY HAVE LED THEM INTO THE SEXUAL SIN. LISA: PROBABLY, RIGHT. JOYCE

: PROBABLY DID. AND--SO, THEY CHOSE IDLENESS, EASE, CONVENIENCE, AND SELFISHNESS. AND THAT WAS WHAT BROUGHT ABOUT THE DESTRUCTION. LISA: IN OTHER WORDS, THEY DIDN'T LOVE PEOPLE. JOYCE: YEAH, THEY DIDN'T LOVE PEOPLE. AND SO, IF WE'RE GONNA CALL OURSELVES CHRISTIANS... LISA: MM... MAN, THAT'S GOOD. JOYCE: THEN WE HAVE TO MAKE LOVING PEOPLE A PRIORITY. BECAUSE I THINK THAT THE WAY WE LOVE OTHER PEOPLE IS THE WAY WE LOVE JESUS. LISA: AMEN. GINGER: YEAH. LISA: AMEN. GINGER: WELL, THIS HAS BEEN SUCH G

REAT ENCOURAGEMENT. AND IT'S NOT EASY STUFF. I MEAN, THIS-- JOYCE: NO. GINGER: THIS IS HARD STUFF. KNOWING THE BOUNDARIES AND JUST LETTING OURSELF BE PAUSED WHEN WE DON'T WANT TO, I MEAN, IT'S DIFFICULT. BUT THERE ARE SUCH OPPORTUNITIES IN IT. I MEAN, GOD WANTS TO DO SO MUCH IN OUR LIFE, SO MUCH MORE THAN WE CAN EVEN IMAGINE. IF I CAN JUST SLOW DOWN ENOUGH, NOW AND THEN, TO SAY, "OK, GOD, I'M HERE. I'M READY. DO WHAT YOU WILL." WHETHER IT'S THROUGH SOMEBODY ELSE OR JUST SOMETHING HE WANTS TO DRO

P IN MY LAP TO BLESS US. SO, HERE'S A SCRIPTURE AS WE WALK IT OUT, SOMETHING TO REMEMBER. THIS IS EPHESIANS 4:2. IT SAYS, "WITH ALL HUMILITY AND GENTLENESS, WITH PATIENCE, BEARING WITH ONE ANOTHER IN LOVE." THOSE ARE KEY WORDS, AND THEY ARE NOT EASY ONES. BUT WITH GOD'S HELP, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. LISA: AMEN. GINGER: THANK YOU, LISA. IT'S ALWAYS SO FUN HAVING YOU HERE. LISA: OH, I LOVE BEING WITH Y'ALL. THANK YOU. GINGER: GREAT CONVERSATION, YOU GUYS. THANK YOU. AND WE WILL SEE YOU ALL NEXT T

IME. BYE-BYE. [MUSIC]