Paul Saladino: Optimizing Fertility, Cholesterol Truths, Creatine for Women & Weight Loss

there's a really interesting study where they  took human sperm in like a petri dish and put a cell phone under the petri dish right and what  do they find they find the sperm like don't move as well right the the motility is impaired  and the sperm when it's sitting on top of a cell phone imagine that this is the pursuit  of Wellness podcast and I'm your host Mari [Music] lell what is up welcome back to the  pursuit of Wellness podcast today we have Paul cadino back for a part three you guys lo

ved his  part one and two so much it caused such a stir on the internet we had to bring him back Paul  is such a lovely lovely guy in person you guys he's so freaking nice he chatted with me and Greg  for an hour before the podcast giving us advice on fertility talking to us about Costa Rica he  really is such a nice person and we brought him on today because he has very contrasting views  to my recent guest Simon Hill so we talked about that we also talked more about some changes Paul  has made

to his diet recently he's most known for his carnivore diet but he talks about heavy  metals and other things as well in this episode we really Dove a little bit deeper today we talk  about fertility diet suggestions his opinion on potatoes and glucose spikes he talks about weight  loss diet sodas the documentary on Netflix you are what you eat this is causing a lot of controversy  online right now I'm sure you've heard about it we talk all about that iron and cholesterol and  some of the myths

around that topic we talk about emfs and the issues with airpods and we also talk  about his brand new meat sticks lineage which are really really good I tried them myself so without  further Ado let's hop into our part three with Dr Paul saladino I hope you enjoy Paul welcome back  to the pursuit of Wellness thanks for having me back on this is technically our part three because  our last conversation was so long that I split it into two it's hard for me to stop talking well  I have to tell yo

u A lot of people ask me who my favorite guest was and who had the most impact  on me personally and your name always comes to mind oh that's awesome thank you I'm glad it was  helpful it truly was one of my favorite episodes one of my most downloaded episodes it had a really  big impact on me and my husband you were talking to Greg out in the lobby he's full carnivore it's  hilarious and loves it and I have seen such a big Improvement in him his sperm count like we were  talking about we were t

alking all about it oh my God he didn't have sperm and now he has sperm  which is incredible mhm I kind of subscribe to like a majority carnivore lifestyle but I throw  in some potato here and there I do a little bit of vegetable when I can but like definitely  limited I do some berries um but you really made a big impact on the way I live my life a lot of  people ask me like which episodes did you actually you know change the way you were doing things and  yours is one of them so I wanted to te

ll you that before we that's so cool it makes me so happy to  know that it's helping how do you feel with that change amazing amazing and I was just telling you  I had the clearest skin I've ever had when I was really strict about that diet um and any time  I reintroduce sugar or kind of deviate from the plan my acne comes back and I I think it's candida  related M um but also our episode did cause a lot of ruckus on the internet okay our real has over  a million views I don't know if you know t

hat and the comments you know people were popping off  in the comments what's up you know that's what happens that's what happens a lot of people were  upset and I also had a lot of experts reach out asking to come on and kind of like debate you okay  so I feel like we have a lot to address today sure I would love to start start with you personally  and what has changed since our last conversation I know you've been experimenting with some new  foods some new you know ways of living so I'd love

to hear like what you've changed yeah so  my diet is still what I would consider to be animal- based meat and organs there's a lot of  good grass-fed beef in Costa Rica unfortunately we don't have quite the same variety of cows down  there so we don't get the most amazing steaks but we get good good meat and there's some good Farms  I eat a little bit of heart a little a little bit of liver every day either from desicated organs  or got the new meat sticks which are exciting with some hardened l

iver in them I eat a lot of fruit  personally because my gut is fine with that we can talk about all this stuff because we were talking  to Greg and and talking about your gut I think there's some caveats to fruit for some people and  even sugars like honey generally I think they're healthy for most people but if there is a gut  dispos issue going on people don't always tolerate them so I eat fruit I eat honey I eat raw dairy  my diet's pretty much the same as it was but I did try some things be

cause I'm always curious and  trying to expand so I've tried white rice and a lot of people do fine with white rice white versus  brown because there's a lot of heavy metal in the hull of the of the brown rice so if you look at  the data it's pretty clear that brown rice is a pretty solid source of heavy metals and I'm always  thinking about heavy metals and the sources and that's actually something we should talk about  because when you look at heavy metals across Foods um there are some vegeta

ble sources that are  pretty significant in heavy metals sunflower seeds are pretty high actually rice can be pretty high  especially the brown rice some leafy greens can accumulate heavy metals from the wrong Source it's  just that some leafy greens tend to accumulate heavy metals so if they're not grown in soil  that's low they'll kind of suck it up and just to be clear can you explain the problem with heavy  metals in the body yeah so heavy metals are things like lead Mercury arsenic cadmium

there's a couple  others but those are the big three or four and there if you look at the periodic table they're  just a series of elements that occur naturally in nature and some food Foods accumulate them Seafood  tends to accumulate them probably because we're polluting the oceans with you know pollution from  the air whether it's just industrial pollution from the air and car exhaust has a lot of heavy  metals and it ends up in the ocean and sort of circulating in those ecosystems and also s

oils can  naturally or unnaturally have heavy metals and so foods can accumulate heavy metals another one that  breaks a lot of people's hearts is chocolate tends to accumulate heavy metals oatmeal oats are a  grain that can accumulate heavy metals especially CAD from certain sources and it's not saying that  these foods are all bad it's just saying that if someone has heavy metal overload or is interested  in heavy metals and understanding how much they have if they're interested in conceiving

right if  they're or they have or they're currently pregnant or they're having issues with anything and  they want to think about heavy metals it's it's important to know that if your heavy metals are  elevated when you test these are foods that might be a problem basically every food has heavy metals  but if you look at them um generally these are the foods of the highest ones like a lot of plant  foods can so when they get into the human body we can get rid of them but it's slow we need to use

  things like glutathione major antioxidant systems the liver can detoxify them we can excrete them  in the urine and the poop but they can accumulate in the bones and other organs and then they  cause oxidative stress because of the way that they're structured sort of just as elements on the  periodic table so people are very familiar with lead poisoning for kids and lower IQs but there's  connections between cancer rates and heavy metals there's connections between dementia and heavy  metals t

here's connections between autoim immun conditions and heavy metals and it it's hopefully  probably not a problem for everyone or most people but if someone has an issue with it it's important  to know that some foods we think of as healthy can be problematic in that in that vein yeah my uh  blood test results showed that I had heavy metal overload okay so I was doing glutathion shots  every week um and it was definitely impacting my acne you know we talked a lot about my skin  last time and tha

t was one of the things I've been working on um because I was eating salmon  a lot and um I had to really decrease my Seafood intake a lot of people think about Meat and  Fish and they'll say red meat is bad for you and we can talk about why I don't think that's  the case especially when it's from good sources grass-fed grass finished regeneratively raised  and they'll say fish is better and you think okay I I understand the argument I disagree with  it but then you have to understand that fish

comes with its own set of problems so heavy metals are  a big problem with fish even salmon definitely the bigger fish like tuna mackerel yellow fin  Mahi these are all even higher amounts of heavy metals of a variety of types so it's lead Mercury  cadmium arsenic are the big ones again and those are all in the bigger fish but salmon have it even  little sardines have it I mean Joe Rogan is kind of famously talked about having high levels of  arsenic from eating sardines every day so it's just b

io accumulates because literally fish are  swimming in the environment and I live in Costa Rica most of the time now and people will say what  about food from Costa Rica it's clean ocean but it's it's it's continuous there's no real evidence  that any one part of the world is going to be able to raise fish that are better than another part  of the world in terms of heavy metals certainly we know that farm-raised fish traditionally farm  raised fish is probably the worst for a variety of reasons

even Beyond heavy metals talk about  pfas these are the forever chemicals we talked about it last time in terms of Lululemon leggings  I was talking to Greg about his underwear and he's changing out his polyester underwear which could  contain pfas they're forever chemicals but fish accumulates pfas fish accumulates microplastics  but so to land animals it's just that fish tend to have more and so even if we talk about meat  let's be very clear and set a Level Playing Field here cows can have mi

croplastics in them too and  and and meat can have pfas but the meat the red meat that's going to have more pfas forever  chemicals and microplastics is going to be the meat that's fed grains so there are ways to  get meat red meat from grass-fed grass finished Farms if they're really only eating real grass  y right they're going to have much lower levels so there's differences in quality and there's  differences in quality in fish farm raised worse in terms of forever chemicals farm raised wors

e in  terms of heavy metals generally sometimes Farm R fish have even has a little less heavy metals  but they have more of these other things yeah polychlorinated bip fennels pcbs so farmr is  really bad even wild fish though like you were probably eating wild salmon has heavy metals pfas  microplastics it's just a troubling food and it's not necessarily because of the fish itself it's  just because we live in a polluted world and for those of us really trying to get granular with our  health a

nd looking at this stuff or specifically seeing an issue come up in our Labs then we have  to really say okay where could I be getting this contamination and even though fish is a healthy  food quote unquote it can give us excess amounts of these for some people so that's that's a  problem right I think a lot of people end up kind of feeling despondent when they hear this what  am I supposed to eat it's crazy I um I had Simon Hill on the show yeah and for anyone listening who  hasn't listened I

recommend you go listen because I specifically asked him he was talking about the  benefits of seafood yeah and I specifically asked about the heavy metals cuz I know from personal  experience that I had heavy metal overloads from eating Seafood too much and he didn't really have  a good answer for me he subscribes to the Danish food pyramid do you know anything about that no  I literally want to pull it up for you because you're going to die is it mostly fish Fe can you  pull it up I just want

to look at it it's like vegetable oil oh seed oils yeah let's clear seed  oils not veget oil let's call let me show you this pyramid because my jaw dropped I like had it in  front of me and I was like this is the opposite of how I live my life and then he looked at my  blood work and said it was bad even though I feel like it's in a good place well we can talk  about it what did he say was bad in your blood word I think it was like my cholesterol wait no  can you show Paul yeah I'm friends with

Simon I really appreciate him as a human no he's great I  think the last time I was in Los Angeles I spent two and a half hours working out with him at Golds  and probably in that 2 and a half hours we lifted for like 20 minutes and just talked but you guys  like have record it but but don't you guys kind of have internet beef Am I Wrong um I don't have  internet beef with him he might I don't even know what he's saying about me I don't pay attention  to this stuff Mari like I think he has inter

net beef with you I mean like that's F A lot of people  have internet beef with me and I'm just I don't know like I'm just on my grind you know like I  don't care I love this approach philosophically I just feel like I don't do my best work when  I worry about what other people are saying me obviously I love respectful scientific discussion  I love sharing of ideas but you know I think a lot of people use your name because it gets views I'm  beginning to see that yes is that I imagine this is so

rt of an offhand compliment so the Danish  food pyramid is eat plant Rich varied not too much eat more vegetables and fruit eat less meat  choose legumes and fish eat whole grain foods choose vegetable oils and low fat dairy products  eat less sweet salty and fatty food thirsty drink water okay yeah we can talk about any pie of  that you'd like but I mean what do you think of the Dana fre pyramid I think it's the opposite  of what I would do I think let's just start with where um I think vegans

vegetarians Simon and I  all agree right Ultra processed food horrible for humans anyone listening to this if you increase  the quality of your food and this means eating more unprocessed whole animal and plant Foods  whether it's fruit or vegetables you're going to get healthy and we can all agree on this what  we disagree on gets into the nitty-gritty a little bit first around seed oils because I think that  one of the things we find a lot in Ultra processed food are seed oils I think we talke

d some in the  last podcast here corn canola sunflower safflower soybean oils are the main oils and just so people  understand the context of these oils never in the American diet or really Western diet until 100  years ago with Proctor and Gamble and the you know the creation of Crisco and so 130 years  ago Americans westerners essentially eat zero seed oils previously where they they were used  as machine lubricants which they're quite good at so if you have a greasy axle in your car you  can

use the canola oil from your Airbnb to like you know use if you need if your lawn mower needs  some lubing or you got a rusty you know hinge on a door that's about all the canola or corn oil  is good for but so just in terms of associations what we see which is very interesting to me and  this is just correlational data we can't draw positive inference is that 130 years ago americ  specifically eat exclusively or 98% animal fats we're eating Tallow which is rendered beef fat  we're eating butter

we're eating eggs we're eating not much ghee but probably some ghee and then lard  which is from pigs and correlation no causitive inference here heart disease vanishingly low  vanishingly low so even in times when Americans were eating all animal fat and no polyan saturated  fats can oil wasn't a thing there was none of this there really probably wasn't much olive oil  in the American diet 130 years ago very very low rates of heart disease so if anyone is going  to claim that Tallow butter ghe

e lard especially lard from pigs that are not fed corn and soy so  these are not industrial we can look at the The Arc of industrial production of pigs and cows over  the last 130 years too and find some deterioration in the quality for sure but if anyone is going to  argue that animal fats are causing heart disease it's that's a tough thing because we have a really  interesting historical experiment to say there's nothing going on here seed oils get introduced  increase in popularity and there

is actually kind of industry collusion there's interesting history  around what happened in the 1950s and 1960s around the American Heart Association switching its  position on saturated fat because saturated fat is is in our blood As Americans and most cultures  have always prized saturated fat containing foods so there's been a real shift in the last 60 to  70 years most of us are too young to remember this but our grandparents um might you know see  this discordance and and there's just kind

of most of our parents might remember that when they  were young they might have eaten more butter and then margarine came in and then we realized there  was a problem with trans fat but there's a lot of plant-based margarin now that are essentially new  age margarine and they're seed oils versus butter Tallow and ghee and this is an important thing to  talk about because I think this is really the Crux of nutritional science like is saturated fat good  or is saturated fat bad yeah and and the o

ther side of the the Seesaw is if saturated fat is bad  then polyunsaturated fats which are essentially seed oils are good and in between lies olive oil  and avocado which are mostly monounsaturated and we can talk about those in a moment but let's  just a contrast saturated ping and saturated for now because it makes a clear distinction and  just so people understand what we're talking about a saturated fat all fats are carbon chains and  it just has to do with how many hydrogens are attached t

o the carbons a polyunsaturated fat  has more double bonds so it has less hydrogens attached to the carbons the saturated fat  has every carbon which is fully saturated with hydrogen that's what it means saturated  versus polyunsaturated and so in the 1950s an interesting thing happened because Eisenhower  had a heart attack and his cardiologist was Paul Dudley white and Paul Dudley white kind of  got influenced by anel Keys who's a physiologist who did this thing called the seven country study 

and anel keys was obsessed with this concept of cardiovascular health and what was causing humans  to have heart attacks because the 1950s 40 years after the introduction of seed oils were really  when we started to see the first notable blips of heart attacks in our society and it became  a thing and it became a meme really because of Eisenhower's heart attack and so Paul Dudley white  the cardiologist for Eisenhower was influenced by anel keys anel keys was influenced by something  called he

did this thing called the seven country study which is an observational study  observational studies are not actually experiments they're just trying to make correlations they can  be reasonably good or they can be confounded or they can be essentially Limited in their in their  purview and not very valid for us as humans so what an Keys did was he looked at seven countries  in Europe and correlated saturated fat intake to I believe it was incidents of heart disease and  the problem with this is

that when we go back and look at the history he left out a lot of other  countries which didn't fit his graph he drew a nice line that said The more saturated fat you  eat in this country per by country the more heart disease you have but if you actually look at 37 or  38 countries in Europe at the time he was doing it there's no correlation he just picked the data  points that fit his line and famously he looked in cre um in Greece at Lenton period when there  was no consumption of animal food

s and so he said oh cre has low heart disease and low consumption  of saturated fat except they were in this very unique time period when they weren't eating animal  Foods because of their religious the religious view so this is the the problem with these type  of observational studies sometimes and this is the famous seven country study which really got  integrated into the American Consciousness by Paul Dudley white who was influenced by insil Keys  Eisenhower's heart attack the American publi

c is a is afraid for the first time of heart attacks  and then the American Heart Association comes in right around that same time in the 1950s and  not a lot of people know that the American Heart Association received a donation from Proctor  and Gamble at that time and that was really what kickstarted the American Heart association's  life in the in the American public and now a lot of what we hear comes from the American Heart  Association if you look in a grocery store at Cheerios or oatmeal

a lot of it has this aha or  American Heart Association heart healthy heart on it because it's because it as it's low fiber and  we can talk about why even some oils like canola oil will have a heart healthy certification  because they lower cholesterol so we'll get to that okay but what's interesting is that Proctor  and Gamble donated 1.7 million the equivalent of over $20 million today to Proctor and uh to the  American Heart Association and then suddenly the American Heart Association is ta

lking about how  polyunsaturated fats are the healthy fats proor and gamble remember made krisco in 1910 so Proctor  gamble made I feel like this is always the case like it always comes back to money often does my  question for you before we continue having someone like Simon on and then you who have just such  polar opposite views on things it's like how could studies be so like interpreted so differently do  you know what I mean yeah let's talk about this for a moment and then we'll return to

this sort of  History so I cannot imagine the way that a health consumer feels today there are so many discordant  voices the word that I think of here is cacophony and it's just how is anyone gonna navigate this  and so I think that what Simon is an advocate of and I I hope I won't misquote him as I said we're  friends and I respect his views but what Simon and people in the plant-based communities will  often say is the weight of the evidence quote unquote the weight of the evidence shows that

for  instance plants are associated with more longevity for humans and so what they're looking at is if  we look at all of the studies that are done on a topic do more of them favor meat or plants or  do more of them favor polyunsaturated fats or saturated fats for any outcome cardiovascular  disease and the problem is this when you say the weight of the evidence there's no there's no  metric in there for the quality of the studies you said that you guys just moved to Austin did you  get a hous

e there did you buy a house you rent a house bought a house yeah is your house built on a  landfill no does your house have a solid concrete foundation I think so okay have you ever seen like  a multi-million dollar Condo building built on a landfill ni you'll see where I'm going with this  so for me when we aggregate all of the studies we're looking at very varied quality of studies  and the problem with meta analyses often times the problem with saying the weight of the evidence is  there's no

metric to say how good the studies are yeah so what we end up with is a pile of garbage  and garbage in garbage out you don't build nice houses on garbage you don't build scientific  hypothesis you don't build scientific ideas or hypothesis about human health on studies that are  not good quality so for me when someone says the weight of the evidence I always say whoa like I  don't care what the weight of the evidence shows I care what the most well done trials show so what  do the best studies

show not what do the majority of studies show what are the best studies show and  we clearly know that there are some studies that are better than others observational studies can  sometimes be valuable but can often be confounded by healthy user bias and unhealthy user bias and  even Interventional studies like Simon mentioned on this podcast with you can be confounded by  poor techniques so let's just talk about this for a second specifically so one of the things  that Simon said on the podca

st is that there are Interventional studies in humans showing that when  you replace saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat essentially replacing saturated fat with seed  oils that you have lower rates of cardiovascular disease and this is true but when you look at  the quality of those studies what you quickly realize is they are poorly poorly done so this  is something that I frequently will disagree with people in the health space on with regard to seed  oils this is a very contentious issue

I think most people are realizing now that regardless of all  the science they feel far better when they get rid of industrially processed seed oils in their diet  but if we're actually going to have a scientific debate which I think is valuable there are about  nine or 10 trials that have been done in the last 60 to 70 years looking at the replacement of uh  saturated fat with poly inss saturated seed oils and the problem with those trials is that seven  of them actually used trans fat for the

saturated fat in the control group so this is what we mean  this is what I mean when I say what do the best trial show Wait So when you say they use trans  fat meaning they use let's say margarine instead of butter yes as their saturated fat oh that's  that's messed up yeah so the control group which is the saturated fat group is getting a poisonous  fat what the heck and then it makes it look better when you give the control group a seed oil who's  like monitoring these studies it's very clear

I mean I'm so confus these like Rogue scientists  just doing whatever they want it's just you have to really read you have to read the the results  carefully I mean there are multiple metaanalyses on seed oils Darius mazharian Infamous for the  toughs guidelines the food Compass guidelines telling us that Froot Loops and Frosted Mini  Wheats are healthier than beef and eggs um he did at man analysis on seed oils and included  most of the studies that had this horribly constructed control group f

ull of trans fat yeah  so if you throw out the bad studies on seed oils what you're left with our Minnesota coronary  study Sydney diet heart study and Rose cor oil study and all of those I would argue the best  studies show that when you replace saturated fat from animals with seed oils you get higher rates  of cardiovascular disease higher rates of death in general so there's a lot of confusion in the  science and it's just I think for a lot of people it's just it's must be dizzying to underst

and  unless you have a PhD in this stuff and to be fair there's even people with phds in the science who  don't understand this and disagree with me so back to the word cacophony I just think that people  I hope that the most important step people can make in their health is just making an intentional  dietary choice and once you make that intentional dietary choice just letting the way you feel  guide you will lead to the right place I don't think it's important that people get it right the  fi

rst time just that you begin the process so I was a raw vegan once and I respect everyone's path  right and so what what I end up with thinking is that maybe respectful discussions are the answer  but then again you know Simon and I are trying to make a debate discussion happen it's just tricky  to find the right platform um I'm hoping to have a a discussion with um an antise a guy that is  pro seed oils at some point in the future but it's hard because I think that most people will  think okay

this is great I'm going to listen to this debate and I'll turn it off in three and  a half minutes because it's immediately going to get so technical yeah it's just so technical  when I'm talking about trans fats in the control group and different study titles and confounding  and healthy user bias and observational studies and so we can talk about it and I think that it's  important for me and all of us to have respectful discussions but most people I don't think will  find it that engaging and

it'll be very difficult for them so I just ultimately I just hope that  people will try to make intentional food choices improve the quality of their food do the things we  all agree on Which is less Ultra processed foods and if you want to eat more plants great if you  want to eat less meat that's great if you want to eat more meat that's great but just have an have  an honest idea of how you're feeling and realize that a lot of people don't do well with I mean  maybe this is a bias I'll just

admit it but I I think a lot of people don't do well with vegan  and vegetarian diets and we don't really have the same studies for carnivore and omnivore diets  because they haven't been around as long but there are studies I mean there was a 2014 study done on  over 11,000 people and it looked at their course of vegan and vegetarianism and they found that  84% of people who went vegan within four years returned to eating meat I feel like we all know  a vegan who and there's more and more promi

nent vegans who returns to eating meat I mean there's  it's kind of Sensational when a raw vegan or a vegan gets caught in a restaurant eating salmon  and it's just it happens all the time and the majority of those people who returned to eating  meat did so because of health issues and so my concern for people is just that meat contains  unique nutrients I mean Greg and I were talking about Co mq10 earlier and torine things that are  important for both male and female fertility zero in plant Foo

ds I'm not saying plant foods are bad  I'm just saying that there are unique nutrients in animal foods that we can't get from Plants  yeah and I think I I'll say this and I hope I'm representing Simon's position honestly he would  say Okay 300 grams of meat is enough per week and I would say not even close I mean you can look  at creatine for instance we know that creatine is vital for humans it's the most sing it's the  single most studied ergogenic Aid because it's a supplement in in like nutr

itional science exercise  science probably over 1500 studies everything from fertility mental performance memory athletic  performance recovery hormonal Health Energy um I just saw a study looking at high-risk neonatal  pregnancies with creatine creatine only occurs in animal foods can you take creatine pregnant yeah  absolutely oh okay yeah it's the most studied supplement there is right it's it's a it's a  combination of AR and glycine then you get a methylation you get methylated from Sami yo

ur  body makes it but our bodies only make maybe 20 25% of what we need and I think Simon would even  agree with this and I suspect Simon supplements with creatine right so you can get it from meat  to get five grams a day which is the amount that somebody like Greg needs like a a reasonably  sized male you have to eat around 2 pounds of meat per day uh average size female maybe three  grams of creatine per day and you can get that from about a pound and a half of meat a lot of  us don't eat tha

t much meat so a little bit of supplement is valuable pretty safe supplement it's  really not had any negative effects on humans but my point here is that you can supplement with  it so a vegan or vegetarian can supplement with it but doesn't this tell us that like meat is  valuable and that's just the tip of the iceberg right there's a million nut not a million but  there's probably 50 60 nutrients I could just list off I think I probably rambled them off last  time creatine cartine Coline anin

e toine K2 B12 I list as long yeah of all these things so meat and  organs are vilified because of the saturated fat because of anel keys because of Paul blly white  and Eisenhower in the 1950s probably because of the American Heart Association potentially because  of Proctor and Gamble donating the equivalent of $20 million and so where do we arrive today  in 2024 with our nutritional guidelines it's basically this 70-year memory this reverberation  and our consciousness of this is what we were

told as kids this is what our parents were told  saturated fat butter is bad for you and it's based on shotty science yeah something I've heard you  say that I really appreciate and I feel like it's good for them to hear is when you're confused on  what to do or who to listen to kind of think back to what we did as you know our ancestors what were  we doing originally and I really subscribe to that way of living and I personally I mean they know  but I feel amazing eating a super high protein d

iet getting red meat in really focusing on where  I'm sourcing everything from and I think it's just like a really valuable conversation to have but it  is so confusing when we have all these studies out there as consumers we're not reading them like I  can't I can't read a study and understand what's happening so we go to experts to decipher the  information but then there's you know people like you there's people like Simon like it is really  really confusing for people um so I appreciate you

saying focus on how you feel because really that's  all that matters it's all that matters and you can add to that maybe blood work some objective  metrics like for women are your periods painful are they regular are you fertile for men um libido  sleep mental clarity if a man wants to get his sperm count checked or motility checked there are  objective metrics you can see these things so you can focus on how you feel and some basic objective  metrics will get you there but I love that you broug

ht this up I mean we don't have time machines  we don't know how our ancestors really were but we have some windows into that the hodza who it  sounds like Simon also visited and we can talk about this um so I spent you know like a little  bit more than a week with the hza a couple years ago Herman poner is written a book about the hodza  and it's very clear if you ask the hodza and I we should post a video and I can send you a video  from when I was there what is your favorite food unquestionab

ly it's meat and by Meat they mean  meat and organs because they eat the whole animal so they're going to eat the liver the heart I ate  baboon brains with the Han yeah oh my God yeah so they eat the whole animal they eat the whole  animal and that's unquestionably their favorite food there are studies I mean there's a guy named  Frank Marlo famous Anthropologist who did his PhD dissertation on the hodza wrote a book about the  hza published a study called tubers as a back food for the hza and i

n the study he basically surveys  a few hundred of theza there's only a few thousand of them on the planet right now there's very  few true or pseudo Hunter gathers left and he asks them what are your favorite foods and both  the men and the women their first favorite food is honey not surprisingly second favorite food for  the men is meat for the women it's a three-way tie between berries babab and meat both men and women  say that tubers are their least favorite food we talked about tubers me

and Simon yeah so I mean  they do eat tubers I've never said that the hza don't eat plant Foods because they will eat tubers  they do eat berries what's important to note and I think that this is difficult to debate is they  don't really care about leafy greens they don't really care about leaves and seeds very much so  they don't really like seeds uh they don't eat the seeds of plants unless they're starving they will  use the leaves for like maybe medicine sometimes but they don't eat a lot of

salads the hza so  this is interesting to note that like if you think about this hierarchy of foods um meat is at the  top and that's that's pretty difficult to question and people have tried to push back and say they  do eat plant foods but it's and I've said yes they do but they they like the meat the most and  that's you look at what they give preferentially to pregnant women women wanting to conceive an  elderly perhaps the populations that need the most concentr nutrition it's just extra m

eat and  organs do you have a recommendation of what to eat more of when you're trying to conceive as a woman  yeah I mean I think it depends on where the woman is starting and so there's things you want to  take out and things want to eat more of I think obviously eating more meat don't fear it red meat  chicken although we should talk about chicken and we talked about fish so be careful with fish if  you're trying to conceive because you don't want a whole bunch of heavy metals Y and this flie

s  in the face of mainstream narrative so I would say controversially eat more well- raised red meat  eat a little bit of liver you don't need more than half an ounce a day a lot of women get worried  about vitamin A and liver most of those studies in fact all those studies are done on synthetic forms  of vitamin A and I think that liver whole forms of vitamin A are probably completely safe but a  nickel or quarter size piece of liver a few times a week for a woman wanting to conceive is going t

o  be great organs like heart either in a food like the sticks or a desicated organ supplement like  we make it Harden soil or a fresh heart that you can grind into a burger there are more and more  companies like force of nature making heart grinds things like eggs are good but the sourcing of the  eggs is important right pasture raised organic is probably the best you're going to do in most  grocery stores and the tricky thing here here is it's just is is the chicken fed corn and soy some  peo

ple both men and women are allergic or at least sensitive to the Albin and the egg white so but  eggs are incredibly nutritious and then in terms of plant Foods I would say do what works for you  if you don't have a problem with vegetables great get rid of seed oils get rid of high fructose  corn syrup I'm not a fan of artificial sweeteners I think if someone is eating a man or a woman is  eating predominantly unprocessed animal foods and plant foods are going to be great and I would say  you kn

ow the asterisk there is just don't fear red meat and organs associated with that and women are  going to be fantastic and don't fear the calories either because you want to make sure you're G  enough carbohydrates from some Source I've had my time in ketogenic diets and I don't think a  ketogenic diet is going to be great for people in terms of that stuff so you think fruit how do  you feel about potatoes by the way so one of the experiments I did we talked about that a little  bit in the begin

ning was with rice and then one with potatoes neither of them worked great for me  and so it's humbling feedback for me that there's a lot of Bio individuality I have friends who do  great on rice and I got or organic rice I washed it 17 times in the sink and then I fermented it  overnight with apple cider vinegar and put it in the crock pot and I put it in pressure cooker  and man I wanted to love this because rice is delicious but it just makes me feel kind of foggy  yeah I don't like it doesn

't make me feel good I love it it's delish but doesn't make me feel good  I feel amazing on potatoes if you feel good with it then that's awesome all of the foods have  little caveats right so potatoes have a little bit of moderate amounts of oxalates if somebody  has arthritis or issues with oxalates it's one of those oxalate foods but I'm not saying that  to dissuade people from eating potatoes just be aware because I was talking to um our mutual  friend Joshua from the minimalist yesterday we

're actually doing a documentary here that's  one of the reasons I'm in LA right now and the documentary is not on animal based science it's  just on that I think that if I were to sumarize the documentary which is still in production  it's going to be a little while uh is about improving food quality and the idea the thesis  of the documentary is just that I want people to understand that most of the illnesses that we  suffer from are fixable contrary to what western medicine says by improving

the quality of our  diets but he and I were talking and he said if he eats white potatoes he just feels like  his ankles are on fire and I thought that's potentially a sensitivity to the oxalates or  a lectin or something about the potato yeah his ankles don't feel good when I eat potatoes I  don't always get that maybe my low back feels a little stiffer I just feel like they make me feel  almost too full it's a strange sensation I get with white potatoes and when I'm in Costa Rica my  lifestyle

is really active I'm surfing two hours a day and plus sometimes and so and then I'll go  skate I just do things for fun I've got a gym at my house so between work sessions I'll go down  and do Nordic Nordic you know Nordic U raises or Nordic squats and it's just I'm active and so  my challenge in Costa Rica is to keep weight on so I need to have carbohydrates and and lots of  calories I'm not struggling with weight gain I'm just trying not to lose too much weight so so  when I eat something and

it makes me feel very full and I stop eating Foods I think okay what was  the food that I ate that makes me feel that full and potatoes have a lot of good nutrients but I  don't want to not eat meat yeah I don't want to have my meat consumption go too low because I'm  eating potatoes but so it's lifestyle based too yeah it is so it's there are lots of sources of  carbohydrate I think tubers are an in between carbohydrate what is it is it a root it's a it's  essentially a a synonym of a root is

a tuber yeah carrot I mean there's Botanical you know Nuance  here but let's contrast this with other sources of carbohydrates that think are problematic  for more people not everyone the grains and we talked about rice but I'm not a fan of Oats  either and for some of the reasons we mentioned earlier heavy metals oats are often contaminated  with glyphosate oats have saponins which is like this soapy compound that is irritating people's  guts so like I'm not a fan of oats but people love oatmea

l for breakfast so if we're thinking  carbohydrates that's where the challenge comes for people in terms of figuring out where the  carbohydrate that they're going to use to fuel their life is going to be um what carbohydrate is  going to be the best for them I tend to backload my carbs so with breakfast I pretty much today  I had like a bowl of grassfed beef two slices of bacon and some berries that's like every day I  don't have my potato till the evening I don't know if that's weird but that'

s how I feel the best  if you feel the best like that's so valid yeah I eat carbs all day I'm just like well it sounds  like you legit don't stop moving so I don't stop moving I mean I get up in the morning and the  first thing I do at 5:35 in the morning Costa Rica the two cans are out the Hower monkeys are  going crazy and I have raw milk and honey before I go surf so the first thing in the morning I  have is that insane yeah so I mean let's just also address another piece of this I don't worr

y  about glucose spikes at all okay yeah give us the tea on glucose spikes cuz I had glucose goddess on  the show right and we talked all about that so you don't I don't worry about it another person that  I would love to respectfully debate um you versus glucose goddess she doesn't seem particularly  interested so the when I look at the research and I've been to her website all respect to her  I think that whether it's me and Simon or what's her name Jesse um I think we're all trying to do  goo

d in the world I fully respect the intention of all of us but when I look at the research  that she is using to support her hypothesis that glucose spikes are problematic it's entirely in  people who have diabetes and underlying metabolic dysfunction and so if you look at someone with  metabolic dysfunction and they have a glucose Spike it's a massive glucose Spike because they  have glucose intolerance and you're looking at a glucose Spike 180 200 milligrams per deciliter in  the setting of met

abolic dysfunction so the whole context is messed up right they're mitochondria  dysfunctional because they're diabetic and we can talk about what I think causes that but you  you cannot it is not wise to try and translate something that happens in a diabetic when they  eat a piece of fruit to something that happens in a healthy person when they eat a piece of fruit  because I suspect that most of Jesse's audience glucose goddess's audience is 20 to 35y old women  who don't have diabetes right a

nd so if you do have diabetes you don't probably want to make the  majority of your diet fast digesting carbohydrates I don't believe there's any evidence in the  medical literature that fruit or honey cause diabetes but once you get to a point of metabolic  dysfunction you don't handle that well so you have to wait before you make that any particular  particularly large part of your diet until you reintroduce it yeah but to say to people it's all  about the glucose Spike and not have attention

to food quality I think it's wrong just respectfully  I'll say that and on her website there's literally a banner with her supplements and in the  background is pizza and donuts and bagels and the message is you can eat whatever food you want  as long as you moderate the glucose spike in the right order in the right order what you know with  vinegar as long as you moderate the glucose Spike you can eat whatever you want and I think that's  not the way that people feel good and lose weight long t

erm I'm assum assuming you've heard of the  new documentary on Netflix you are what you eat yeah I did some content on it the twin experiment  just for context for anyone listening who doesn't know there is a new documentary on Netflix with  twins one eats an omnivore diet and one eats a vegan diet and they basically follow the twins  through life and show how they grow up differently what's your take on that documentary so funded  by plant-based Beyond me done at a plant-based Center lead resea

rcher is plant-based and also the  lead researcher wasn't he funded by Beyond me yeah there part of the Stanford center there is also  separately funded by yeah some of these things and I think that yeah beyond meat had a lot of fingers  in the documentary so it's a lot of funding things going on there a lot of um a lot of potential  bias if you actually look at what they did um they don't talk a lot about what they gave the omnivore  group they say it's a healthy omnivore diet but they didn't r

eally talk about it and in the paper  that they published they said oh the study was so great the vegans lost more weight well if you look  at the data the vegans also ate less calories they gave the vegans less calories and then the vegans  ate less and then they lost more weight so okay well the omnivores also lost weight and but the  vegans lost more weight because they either gave them less weight because they gave them portions  of food in the beginning and the vegans lost more weight so it

's it's kind of like stacked in a  weird way and then the other metric they used was LDL so this will wrap us into a conversation  around cholesterol and they said Oh look The vegan diet decreased LDL more than the omnivore diet  that was the problem Simon had with my blood work the LDL the cholesterol yes this is one of Simon's  Hang-Ups again and I'll try to represent his position as accurately as I can um from I think  I was telling you before we started the podcast that Simon and I recently

had a we hung out at at  Gold's Gym in in Venice and we didn't record this conversation we probably should have we worked out  quotequote worked out for two and a half hours and I think we probably lifted weights for 25 minutes  and the rest of it was just talking and kind of debating friendly not being recorded and I I  learned a little bit of his story from him and the main reason that he communicated to me and again  I'm hoping I'm representing this accurately he can correct me if I'm not is

that he was concerned  about his iron levels and his cholesterol that was the reason he went vegan he didn't feel bad  he just didn't want his cholesterol to be so high so SE Simon is very concerned about cholesterol  and we can talk about why he and I differ in our views here so we'll wrap back into that but that  was the main reason that that that he went vegan and he thinks a lot about APO and LDL and that's  one of the main concerns he has about omnivorous diets the iron thing is a separate

conversation  some people accumulate excess iron due to their genetics I don't know what Simon's genetics are  but there are lots of ways to mitigate iron levels even if you're eating meat which has all the  unique nutrients we talked about earlier and a lot of people especially females are deficient  in iron and iron deficiency is the single greatest nutrient deficiency in the western world today  I believe I'm accurate with that statement so in the Twin experiment though you are what you eat 

they said oh the vegan diet lowered apob lowered LDL more than the omnivore diet and we know very  clearly that if you just look at LDL levels this gets complicated I'll try and keep it simple if  you look at cholesterol you have good cholesterol bad cholesterol obviously these monar are  inaccurate but those are LDL and HDL and if you look at LDL when LDL goes up people get worried  and we know that seed oils lower LDL and saturated fats from animals raise LDL in probably 70% of the  population

and they may raise it 10 to 20% so when I get my blood work done I don't have any c oils  in my diet I'm very strict about this and I eat a lot of saturated fat relatively speaking I eat  butter I don't worry about the fat in my steak and that's where I get my saturated fat from so my  LDL is usually 20% higher than Western medicine would like to see it and what what's interesting  is that if you look more deeply and this has been studied many times in Interventional studies  in the medical lit

erature as polyunsaturated fats like seed oils lower LDL they increase  oxidized LDL and LP little a and I don't know how Simon would respond to this because those two  metrics are even stronger predictors than apob of cardiovascular risk so apob is essentially LDL  contains apob but there are other apob containing lipoproteins and so when you look at cholesterol  there's just this calculation of like what is your apob and then what is your LDL and if you look  at the cardiovascular literature a

pob is perhaps more predictive of cardiovascular risk than LDL  but they're almost the same thing so we can just talk about LDL APO and we know that these go up  with saturated fat but oxidized LDL goes down LP little a goes down and oxidized LDL and LP little  a are very strong predictors of cardiovascular risk and so never have I heard really anyone who  is worried about apob address this this apparent discordance what we also know from natural studies  of free liming humans is that when you g

ive humans saturated fat their LDL goes up I mean there's  two really fascinating populations of humans in the Polynesian at toes there's the this the names  are amazing there's the puka pukin that's the real name oh my gosh that's so cute and the toow and  the toal get 63% of their calories from coconut so they have a lot of saturated fat now it's shorter  chain saturated fat 12 and 14 chain saturated fats than than a lot of the saturated fats that are  occurr in meat which are 16 and 18 carbon

s and the puka pans also get saturated fat but less and  so you look at these two groups now both of these groups eat unprocessed food unprocessed meat fish  coconuts and some other plant Foods Roots that's essentially their diet they don't have a lot of  seed oils they're generally un westernized neither group has high rates of cardiovascular disease I  think compared to the Western population they have vanishingly low rates of cardiovascular disease  and the rates of cardiovascular disease are

low in both the toow have have cholesterol that's  30 to 40% higher than the puka pans because they eat more saturated fat wow but their  cardiovascular disease risk is no higher and we see this across the literature and this  is where Simon and I disagree if you look at if you look at humans who are metabolically healthy  who don't eat Ultra processed foods increases in LDL cholesterol increases in apob don't always  have the same increase in cardiovascular disease risk that you see in someone

that's diabetic the  context here is super important and it's often missed and it's often wrapped into broad swaths of  experience saying we know that when you have more apob you have more cardiovascular disease which  is not true yeah because there are populations that defy this metric the weight of the evidence  suggests that in many people more apob equals more cardiovascular disease but those many people are  generally diabetic overweight obese metabolically dysfunctional so the point here

is is the apob the  problem or is the metabolic dysfunction that's the problem and I would argue it's the latter the  arguments around LDL and cholesterol hinge on the notion that apob is directly injurious to the  endothelium so if more apob is bad apob must be causing damage to the arteries and that I think is  not supported by the literature at all there are so many unique functions of apob in the human  body or LDL that never get talked about so we talked about Quorum sensing in the gut well

when  you have an infection bacteria also communicate in your blood via Quorum sensing and one of the  unique roles of the lipoproteins in our body is to interrupt the Quorum sensing to prevent  pathogenic bacteria because you're supposed to have bacteria in your gut you're not supposed to  have bacteria in your bloodstream so LDL particles all lipoproteins actually HDL kyom microns for  a moment they all interrupt the Quorum sensing of these bacteria so it's it's not surprising  that if you lo

ok at elderly populations those who have the highest levels of cholesterol live  the longest in lien 85 Plus cohort in the Lothian Birth Cohort the lowest rates of cancer the  lowest rates of dementia and the lowest rates of cardiovascular disease if you look at elderly  people so how do you explain that right they have the lowest rates of cardiovascular disease  this is observational but it completely flies in the face of the notion that apob is causing  endothelial damage again people can look

this up this is the Len 85 study and the Lothian Birth  Cohort and Lothian is like Edinburgh and Scotland they looked at people in 1936 and they followed  them for 70 plus years and they found at the end of the study the people with the highest amount of  cholesterol more than 250 milligrams per deciliter that's total cholesterol had all these things  I talked about lowest rates of dementia best mental functioning lowest rates of cancer lowest  mortality and there was a subgroup of those people

who was on statins who were on statins and they  had the worst mental functioning now statins can have other problems in the human brain besides  lowering cholesterol what's a Statin a Statin is a medication that inhibits the production  of cholesterol in the liver oh wait why would they be on that because the doctor because they  had high cholesterol and the doctor was trying to lower it okay yeah one of the things Simon  said in your podcast with him was that statins decrease the risk of card

iovascular disease oh  he did talk about that yeah but the problem here is that we don't know that it's the lowering of  apob that decreases cardiovascular disease satins also improve endothelial function they also have  negative effect when they inhibit the production of cholesterol in the liver they inhibit the  production of coenzyme Q10 this key component of the mitochondrial electron transport chain which  is why people on statins have increased rates of dementia actually increased rates of

diabetes  muscle aches uh erectile dysfunction all kinds of problems with statins they're a dirty dirty drug  so when we look at apob when we look at LDL there are like I said I just want to reiterate this  point there are many studies that show that if you are insulin sensitive there is a much much lower  increase in cardiovas the risk the cardiovascular risk is attenuated massively when your LDL goes up  so there's not the same increase in cardiovascular risk with every elevation of LDL and I

think it's  a really hard argument to make that a 10 to 20 to 30% increase in LDL from eating more saturated  fat less seed oils which gives you less oxidized LDL low rates of lpla is going to increase your  cardiovascular risk when you feel better more energy better hormones more fertility right so  this is there's a real and don't get me wrong it's a complex discussion but it's the center of  this discussion yeah and again we say saturated fat raises LDL but people look pretty healthy when  t

hey eat saturated fat this is what frustrates me with documentaries like the twin study that came  out on Netflix I have a very tangible example one of mine and Greg's close friends he was mostly  plant-based avoided red meat at all costs had a little bit of chicken here and there after after  I think talking to Greg and hearing the podcast and you know kind of being around me and Greg more  he got more confident around red meat and he looks amazing he's lifting weights he put on muscle he  was

feeling good and I think his concern was that um heart disease runs in his family right he then  watched the documentary no and came back to us and said he's nervous and kind of wants to go back  to his old diet I know and that's what concerns me because I feel like having things like that  on the internet people don't have have people like you telling them the truth behind these  studies although I do feel like the internet is kind of fighting back on this I hope people  understand where this d

ocumentary is like what the documentary is based on and the lack of um true  science behind it but still there are people like this who may be harmed in the short term yes the  amount of fear around cardiovascular disease is wild to me I think that it's also important that  people understand understand that if you look at total mortality death from all causes there's  really not an association with LDL cholesterol and lowering LDL cholesterol doesn't consistently  improve all cause mortality so

it is true that if you take a Statin and a pcsk9 inhibiter which  is a monoclonal antibody we can get your LDL cholesterol or anyone's LDL cholesterol apob  down to neonatal levels 30 milligrams per de we can erase your risk of dying from heart disease  but are we also going to increase your risk of dementia cancer uh muscle aches infertility low  libido I mean you know muscle strength like what are the costs of that and if you look at the  studies across the board it is not clear it actually lo

oks like very clearly that LDL lowering  LDL does not improve overall mortality so people may die less of cardiovascular disease and they  die more of something else and they we have a metric that Associates quality of life in there  so my concern is that there are a lot of longevity experts now also out there who are sewing the  seeds of apob fear and essentially saying be on a Statin be on a pcsk9 inhibitor or consider  these things strongly so you don't die of heart disease and the and the me

th the message they have  is cardiovascular disease is the number one killer or one of the highest Killers so if you lower that  you'll live longer this this is this is not true we don't know that and your quality of life may be  far worse and we don't know that having an LDL of 120 or 130 an AAL B of 90 or 100 we don't know  that's going to shorten your life because none of these conversations around lowering a b are  taking into the context of metabolic Health versus disease there's one more t

hing Simon said that  I want to push back on if people are technical about this if you look at mandelian randomizations  so this is quite technical it looks at genes and genes that associate with higher versus lower  amounts of cholesterol LDL APO and hum hum on the far end of the spectrum at the top right is  familial hypercholesterolemia and people that have fam familial hyp famal hypercholesterolemia  have higher rates of heart disease so a lot of people in the space will say look more choles

terol  more heart disease but the problem with this is a couple of things but what we know there are two  different types of familial hypercholesterolemia there's monogenic and polygenic and so you can  have one gene that changes your LDL receptor or something else that raises your LDL and those  people have very clear impairments in other immune cells that are connected with this one gene that's  mutated so it's not just the LDL that's high in people with monogenic FH what also happens is  thei

r LDL is more likely to get taken up by macres and that's the inside of your blood vessel  when the immune cells engulf the elal particle that's the inside that's the beginning of a fatty  streak and an atheromatous plaque so no one in the space is talking about the fact that the far end  of your correlation between high cholesterol and cardiovascular disease is skewed by genes that  also affect cholesterol metabolism at the level of the mitochondria does that make sense that was  kind of techni

cal I'm sorry I mean I'm nodding but truthfully hopefully someone listening understood  that but it sounded lovely okay we'll move on what was the thing that you said at the beginning that  you you tripped up on a little bit familial hyper cholesterolemia polygenic versus monogenic I don't  know that's that's an insane phrase to say out loud but anyway so maybe you and Simon really  do need to have this debate because he looked at my blood work and which by the way I'd work so  hard on my blood

work everything was improved my holistic health practitioner said it was amazing  can I see it yeah I'll show you after of course but he was like look at that LDL of course so this  is the problem it's LDL myopic Focus right I eat too many ribe eyes of course you eat just enough  ribe eyes Mari you don't eat too many I told him how many ribe eyes I eat and he was like you  should be having one a week yeah right you should be having one and a half a day or two a day I eat  a lot of meat I had lik

e half a pound of beef this morning I think right fantastic I feel good on it  I know we have been talking for a while but I do want to touch on emfs yeah yeah we were talking  about this before airpods I mean we're surrounded by emfs these days what's the problem with the  airpods so I wish I brought my EMF meter I saw it in your video it's very dramatic it makes a  crazy noise it makes a crazy noise it has big numbers which are in microwatts per meter squared  which is how you measure microwav

e radiation which is RF radio frequency electromagnetic fields  but there are things in our environment that are unseen that can potentially be harmful for us  and so we hearken back to this idea of what are we doing experiencing or living like as humans now  that's different than when we did 50 150,000 years ago our exposure to emfs is one of them so it just  raises a concern and when you look at the studies on emfs so these are this is like your cell  phone your airpods your wireless headphone

s your wireless router um what else whoop band sometimes  Apple watches have some what about Ora ring Ora ring can be low if you put it on airplane mode  okay I had a wireless mic that I used to record it was a DJI wireless mic that had massive amounts  of emfs coming off it if it's connected to your phone right so if it's bluetoothing somewhere  right so Bluetooth anything Bluetooth can have significant emfs electromagnetic fields which  are radio frequency microwave radiation it's basically th

e same thing coming out of your  microwave right and microwaves get measured at like millions of microwatts per meter squared  but you can simulate that with your Wi-Fi router and the problem is at a highle scientific issue  that it's going to heat up the cells in your body so if you slept on a Wi-Fi router you could  heat up a bunch of cells near that and that could cause problems the other problem that I think is  just beginning to be understood is that calcium channels and other cellular chan

nels are probably  affected by these emfs there's over 1800 studies on these and the vast majority over 85% suggest  that they're harmful to humans either increasing oxidative stress creating more DNA damage there's  a really interesting study where they took human sperm in like a petri dish and put a cell phone  under the petri dish right and what do they find they find the sperm like don't move as well right  the motility is impaired and the sperm when it's sitting on top of a cell phone imagi

ne that me and  Greg have been talking a lot about motility yeah and they kept at equal temperature between the  two things so this is just pure emfs affecting sperm and this is the study that gets cited a lot  for men or women putting their cell phone in their front pocket for men with testicles and sperm  women in their sports bras for memory glands or women putting their cell phones over their ovaries  whatever this is probably not a great thing yeah so you look at airpods airpods are interes

ting  to me because you know if you put a phone up to your head you're actually doing something in the  in the the pamphlet that comes with your iPhone it says don't put this next to your head does  it yeah I think it does you're supposed to have it at least an inch or two away from your head  you're not supposed to put it next to your ear should put on speaker phone yeah speaker phone  but even speaker phone is significant but it's it's significantly mitigated in you know as it  goes away from

your body quickly the problem with airpods is they're transmitting through your head  and they're right on your face right on your ears for an hour two a day I mean I see people walking  on the street with airpods in Los Angeles I see people on airplanes for 5 hours with airpods on or  wireless headphones I see people in the gym for an hour a day some people fall asleep with airpods  in and that's that could be a real problem we don't really have data to say confidently it's  safe is it is it po

tentially affecting tumors is it affecting our mental health is it affecting  anxiety we don't really understand what this is doing and there the the reason I mentioned this  is because there are Simple Solutions right wired headphones or just putting your phone on speaker  phone getting it out of your pants putting on airplane mode and I showed Greg this maybe can we  show an iPhone real quick on the film like okay so mari's entrusted me with her iPhone so you're  already on airplane mode I'm g

oing to take you off airplane mode maybe you can zoom into that so  when you do this right you've got this airplane mode yep and then you hit this button to go on  airplane mode right and a couple things happened it took off the cell signal and it took off the  Wi-Fi but the Bluetooth is still on and if I hit the Bluetooth it then goes white the Bluetooth is  still on your phone even when it's white so the Bluetooth has to be gray and when I showed drag  this and I hit airplane mode both his Wi-

Fi and Bluetooth were still on so what you have to then  do is go to your settings I don't know where your settings is but you can show them this go to your  settings and actually find Bluetooth okay and turn Bluetooth off in the settings and then it'll go  gray because you can't actually with a shortcut you cannot turn Bluetooth off there so what does  the white even mean I don't even know it means it's not I don't know it's just Apple messing with  us okay so now I should be good so now you pu

ll it down and it's all gray yeah wait hold on oh yeah  it's all gray it's all gray but when when the Wi-Fi and the Bluetooth are white they're still  on okay and then we're getting emfs yes you're getting them in your pocket so if someone's on a  fertility Journey they should for sure be careful of where they're putting their phone and then  people can turn the Wi-Fi router off at night yeah right I think I've heard of people installing  these like buttons where you can literally turn off every

you know technology you have have in  the house yeah I would like that like a breaker in your house yeah you it's in every house yes I  feel I feel like that's genius but also kind of annoying I guess yeah I mean sometimes people just  like turn off all the electricity of their house that's pretty intense it's pretty intense yeah  cuz if you want a security system or who knows yeah I like having my cameras fair fair so it's  it is what it is but there's ways to do it it's just interesting to go

down the rabbit hole but  I think that the airpods are kind of top of mine for a lot of people and would definitely decrease  the the inputs a lot tell us what's new with you I know you've just launched lineage meat sticks  tell us all about them so me and Anthony Gustin friend the guy that I went to Tanzania with good  friend um he did develop perfect keto and now is my partner with this one we did 54 Trials of these  meat sticks it's so hard to get the flavor right they're the only meat stick

s that have heart  and liver and so what I want to do with this the vision is just how do I create something that  makes people's lives easier I want people to eat a steak and hardened liver that are fresh but if  you want it on the go here's a cool thing on a plane before a workout after a workout for kids  I mean I have a niece and a nephew and they kill beef sticks they love this stuff for snack I mean  I just I don't have kids but it's just it's just like wait what like kids eat snacks all t

he time  and I don't know how most parents handle this so yeah that's pretty genius yeah so wanted to  create something like that I wasn't really stoked about the other meat sticks that were on  the market so what we did that's different is we have an air dried meat stick so these are never  heated above 78 degrees fenhe they're in a beef collagen casing and they're in a drying room  for 5 days which means they never get heated and because we're air drying and not cooking them  like most other m

eat sticks on the market there are some meat sticks with grass-fed beef now but  there's no meat sticks on the market widely that you can get that are air dried like this and the  air dried meat sticks don't require nitrites or nitrates in the form of celery powder this can be  problematic for humans I don't think we know these are safe or lactic acid or citric acid or any of  these other preservatives all we use is vinegar in here so the ingredients are grass-fed beef  grass-fed heart grassfed

liver vinegar and salt and a collagen casing that's it so really proud of  it it tastes good you tried it before the show I was about to say Greg and I did try before and it  was delicious I think it's just salty enough like I'm very salt sensitive and I feel like it's  perfect amount of salt if you're like me and you're a little squeamish around getting organs  in I didn't even really notice that I was eating heart and liver delicious super easy on the go and  I have to give you props for doing

it the hard way I know how difficult that must have been it must  a long time and it's expensive so I think this is a wonderful product and I'm so excited about it  super proud of it and this is the classic flavor there's going to be more flavors coming probably  we're going to see what people want or maybe do a spicy flavor garlic herb because you know some of  the feedback we got was they're Bland and I think they're good they don't they don't taste Bland to  me they just taste like meat but

I think a lot of us are are trained to want meat sticks that have  jalapeno or garlic and or so we're going to make more flavors and lineage is cool it's a different  company than Harden soil hardened soil makes the organs in the capsules we talked about this last  time and different unique organs from hardened soil a lot of the organs we make in hardened  soil are hard to get in anything else I think it's it's really fascinating what things like you  know testicle can do for men or uterus ovari

es and flopi and tubes can do for women but the vision  for Linea just is to create food products so we've got a lot of other food products coming we talked  about the honey I don't know how much I can talk to we got a Tallow coming and all kinds of stuff  coming in the next few months and it's going to be a fun project to build like animal-based foods  for people just to make their lives easier I think it's a fantastic idea and very in line with who  you are where can everyone find you online w

here can they buy lineage I'm at Paul saladino MD all  the all the socials and lineage provisions.com if you guys want to get beef sticks I don't know  when this podcast is coming out but I'll say they've sold out twice now on the day we released  them yeah so we released them a week ago they sold out Greg bought a lot he probably Greg was maybe  the reason and they sold out again today so we released them again today they sold out but  we're ramping up production and we're going to be getting t

hem back in stock but it's good  that people are liking them incredible yeah it's fun Paul thank you so much for coming on for part  three fun times it like flies by I know we'll have to do part four in Costa Rica I think I love it  thanks for joining us on the pursuit of wildness podcast to support this show please rate and  review and share with your loved ones if you want to be reminded of new episodes click the Subscribe  button on your preferred podcast or video player you can sign up for m

y newsletter to receive my  favorites at marian.com it will be linked in the show notes this is a wellness outloud production  produced by Drake Peterson Fiona atex and Kelly Kyle this show is edited by Mike fry and our video  is recorded by Lis Vargas you can also watch the full video of each episode on our YouTube channel  at Mari Fitness love you po girls and Po Boys see you next time the content of this show is for  educational and informational purposes only it is not a substitute for indiv

idual medical and  mental health advice and does not constitute a provider patient relationship as always  talk to your doctor or health [Music] Team