Racecaller Dave Johnson remembers Secretariat's Belmont on TDN Writers' Room

[Music] For the love of the horse. For generations to come. Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room podcast for May 30th, 2023. My name is Bill Finley. I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News, and co-host of the "Down The Stretch Show" with Dave Johnson on SiriusXM Radio. I am Randy Moss of NBC Sports, and also the Beyer speed figure team. Zoe Chapman here with 1stRacing. Doodle in the background. He's finally here over my left shoulder. I want to remind you that the TDN

Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland. I was going to say that. So you didn't need to take it away. I was so psyched to get that. I never get that right, but this week I was all set to get it done. Okay so obviously on the show we have to talk about the ongoing situation at Churchill Downs. Let's just put that on hold for now, because I didn't want to start off you know with doom and gloom because there's just been so much of that lately. It gets a little depressing. I want to start off w

ith a very interesting concept that was announced last week. The National Thoroughbred League is going to start up on Labor Day weekend at Kentucky Downs. In a nutshell it's trying to take horse racing and turning it into a team sport. There's going to be horses representing six different cities. They're going to be a team. They're going to compete against one another at different races. Five series of races around the US. Emerald Downs they are going to. They're going to go to Tampa Bay Downs f

or the end. The winning stable will collect one million dollars, and the people behind it are saying that you know why can't horse racing have what other sports have? In baseball you don't root for an individual player you root for your team. I root for the Boston Red Sox which is sometimes a tough thing to do, but this concept coming to thoroughbred racing it's an interesting idea. I'm gonna be upfront about it. I don't think it'll work, but having said that, good for these people for trying so

mething new and different. Maybe I'll be wrong, maybe it'll be a big success. It is really outside the box, and we always complain that racing doesn't do enough beyond the status quo, or doesn't do enough to try to attract new fans. Then if we say that we shouldn't complain about this. Who knows maybe it'll be very successful, Randy? That's exactly the way I feel Bill.You know we don't get enough new ideas like this in thoroughbred racing. So I would love to see it succeed. I also have reservati

ons, primarily from a financial standpoint of how it can make money, but then I remind myself I was in the newspaper business back in 1983 when the Breeders' Cup concept was first announced. I wrote a lot of stories about it, and there were a lot of people in the sport that did not believe that the Breeders Cup was a good idea. Did not see any way that it could make money and it could be successful. Lo and behold now here we are in 2023 and it's one of the highlights of the calendar. From a fina

ncial standpoint okay, each each of the six teams is going to have a six horse stable at the outset. So that's 36 horses that have to be purchased, and the quotes in the Daily Racing Form article that I read from Matt Hegarty was that the goal is to buy horses privately that are upper allowance or lower stakes caliber okay? Ballpark I would put that at about two hundred thousand dollars a horse, times 36 okay? That's 7.2 million dollars of an outlay, plus the one million dollar grand prize at th

e end that's 8.2 million dollars. These horses have to be trained. The auction is going to take place in July. So you're talking basically six months conservatively. That's another half million. So now we're up to 8.7 million, and in order to make money on this they're saying that they're going to make money on sponsorships and on ticket sales to events that are associated with the five racing days okay? Events, if you're going to sell tickets to events, and you're going to make any money off of

it, the events cost a lot of money to stage and put on as well. Plus advertising for those events, travel for the horses. Now you're up over 9 million dollars in outlay that you're going to have to try to make. So among all the challenges, logistical challenges keeping the horses healthy etc. The financial part of it is going to be I think the biggest nut to crack. I'm rooting like heck for them. I hope they can make it work, because racing needs new ideas, but it's going to be a tough goal. It

is definitely going to be a very tough go. In fact I was speaking to Tom Loot who's going to be the president of the NTL, The National Thoroughbred League just the other day about this when the press release came out. I'm like hey Tom what gives with this? Why are we just hearing about it? He said it's been in the works for a while, and they're just trying to bring new people in. He said we're not here to try and please people already in the business. We're trying to bring in new people. I did

a little bit of research on it earlier today, and you know I found it in Rolling Stone Magazine. Rick Ross and Nelly, the New York Giants, Kayvon Fobido trying to get into horse racing. They're all going to own a stake in one of the teams. So they're trying to bring people into the sport of horse racing. There's no way we can sit here and knock trying to bring new people in. Now I don't know how the money's gonna work. You have the guy in charge of Forbes who's going to be in charge of all the m

oney. They have a big team behind it. Chantelle Sutherland, Mike Smith are going to be honest advisors. They've got a whole team set in place. How it's going to work I don't know. I do know that the Thoroughbred League in England started a few years ago and that was met very dubiously especially over in England, and I think it's in its third year now. They've got Frankie de Tori on board in his final tour they have six teams uh I think it's Wales London the Midlands all kinds of teams going toge

ther and it's actually gained some traction and it's taken a little bit of time you've have all kinds of trainers that have signed up for it even Sir Michael Stout donica O'Brien Aiden O'Brien they're all on the roster of trainers so these are people that are making things happen and the fact that it's survived its infancy in England gives me a little bit of Hope on how this is going to move forward because things move a lot slower in England people are are a lot more stuffy and resistant to cha

nge over there the fact that they've got some kind of traction going and they've got the likes of Michael Stout and Frankie de Tori on board is a thumbs up so anything that's going to try and bring new people to the sport I'm all for and I wish them the best of luck I really do I'm really looking forward to it they're gonna have a big concert in Nashville the first um foray into the races will be at Kentucky Downs which I don't think you could find a better spot it's a fabulous Boutique meet the

re's plenty of room for everyone so I think they're going to have a great time uh it'd be fun to try and grab a ticket and go along and see what's going on I don't know who they're gonna have play but it's gonna be somebody big for sure yeah we'll find out about that but you know a couple things to keep in mind the ticket prices are up uh for Kentucky Downs and the VIP admission is 350 dollars as well and Randy I uh what I what you said about the economics of it I'm gonna go one step further I t

hink they're going to find out very quickly that six horses per team is not enough right because you know we know how these horses how fragile they are um you know somebody has has a cough one day um you know you need to replace them in the lineup so to speak so uh you know we'll find out about that the other thing too is I I think it's not just horse racing everybody's trying to be Formula One auto racing now and this is I don't know the first thing about Formula One I don't care but I know wha

t's the hottest thing in the world and you know what they did was they turned it into events it's not just a race it's a big event they have this Netflix series uh that has been apparently wildly popular I watched one episode I was bored and I never watched another one again but they're they're going to have you know someone behind the scenes filming this um Chad Brown has signed up to be the trainer of Team New York so you know they'll they'll be following Chad behind the scenes and whatnot so

you know some interesting Concepts there but uh you know Randy I think you hit the nail on the head but having said that um you know they look like they got a lot of backing like these are not um you know people scraping together nickels to put this together yeah I mean I looked at the timing of it it's going to start on Labor Day weekend it's going to end on December 31st if you if you run these races every four weeks then you could have five weeks into December 31st so the spacing of the races

seems to work okay they're gonna run three races at a time on those five different weeks and so yeah I just kind of thought okay it'll probably be like a mile and a 16th on dirt six furlongs on dirt and a mile on the grass so each team with six horses would probably have to have two in each category and like you said I mean I I just don't think that's enough given the attrition rate uh of today's resources it that that's just going to be one of the challenges but hey you know they got a lot of

things it sounds like uh that they've got a head start on and a lot of big names in the pipeline so uh let's hope that let's hope it works yeah and I actually tackled Tom about that and the buying of the horses and said you know he's going to go out and start buying horses and I'm like well and now the press release came out a lot more people have gone to Tom and said well what about this and what about them the subject came up of why not lease some horses off a trainer at the particular racetra

ck you're going to but they want to keep the same horses so they can have a following so to speak and take these horses around to the different tracks and make stars out of them which is which is fair enough but it's going to be tough task yeah yeah and also they've said these horses are not going to race outside of the league so if some horse gets on fire and wins three in a row and is running 102 buyer figures we're not going to see them um so they say in anything but the league races so uh th

at's another interesting um factor that uh as well what's going on at Keeneland Zoe the TDN Rises room is brought to you by Keeneland home of the world's yearling sale the energy Magic and momentum of a September yearling sale could return September the 11th through the 23rd learn more at the world's yearling sale.com [Music] if this place could talk [Music] it would Roar it would say this is a reset this Beating Heart and the Heart of horse country strong beneath the Roar reminding us why for t

he love the love of worse engines to come [Music] vote for a horse with strong family values and the performance to back it up it's going to be early voting in the opener an early voting wins the withers liar to liar he took his campaign to Pimlico with a classic win in the grade one Preakness stinks episode early voting Gun Runners only classic winner new to cool more America the TDN writer's room is brought to you by coolmore it was a big holiday weekend for Kumo sired Runners over in France A

merican Pharaoh's group one winner above the curve returned to her winning ways on Sunday with a two-length victory in the group 2 pre-karida at Saint clue classic Empire's consistent daughter classy Edition won her fourth career Stakes race at Belmont in the critical eye Stakes on Memorial Day and justifies Justin's Legacy proved to be another to keep an eye on Sunday when the cult romped in a five-length maiden special eight victory at Gulfstream meanwhile crk stable smart Mo caught the eye at

Santa Anita Friday with a debut winning Maiden special way performance for trainer John sheriffs all in all on a bad weekend for cool more science you know what that's a good time to find out what's going on at Siena with Zoe cabin here you go first things first at Santa Anita [Music] [Applause] doodle three grade ones a great day of racing and a win you're in we deserve a drink cheers and it's Macadamia and Thiago Pereira to win the game League Quattro he's just developed into a nice classy Ph

illy she didn't come here that way she just came here just quirky uh I feel good want to kick up her heels in the stall but I think you know she's as she gotten older and she's matured just put it all together and uh thankfully it was for a great one one here it's exalted holding on exalted is a grade one winner comes together the grade one win on your rent and she'll make a bow you can't say that was the plan if you forget it first edition y'all the second condition well let's see how it goes m

istake that was uh let's give it a try whose idea was it to put him on the grass come on be honest that was my idea but I just felt like it was two years late it was better late than never they say right how you feeling right now yeah I'm feeling awful good I mean to win a Shoemaker mile pretty pretty pretty pretty fun just thrilled with all the jockey Road our horse and we are thrilled that you won congratulations thank you her only game is ever on the outside but the funded is too strong and h

e takes them all the way in the Hollywood Gold Cup he funded takes the grade one Hollywood Gold Cup launching this guy with the white hair bob Barefoot into history becoming the all-time winningest trainer in Gold Cup history how are you feeling with this win you know he's a tough horse and this horse today I just he got the lead and he wasn't gonna let anybody pass him so you know he's just improving getting better and uh the mile in the quarter was happy to see him get a mile recorder just a r

eminder racing does continue this Friday with one o'clock post time at Santa Anita and we will have steaks action this weekend with the summertime Oaks on Saturday and the affirm Stakes on Sunday so on Monday at San Anita three grade One races The Hollywood Gold Cup grade one plus four hundred thousand the Shoemaker Mile and also the gamely the story of the day oh there was a couple stories of the day but um you know we focus in on the Hollywood Gold Cup and you know I think most people would ag

ree with me I said that this is not a very inspiring division the older dirt males but right now the funding is as good as we have out there um you know he's been consistent he won the Californian he comes back and wins this race for Bob baffert and interesting thing about this is that you think of baffordo he's just a three-year-old guy he doesn't ever have good older horses well how about the fact that he's won this race now nine times so Zoe what did uh what it uh resonated with you from that

big Monday card at San Anita wow a gate to wire explosion by defunded was pretty awesome to be honest uh Juan Hernandez wrote him on point to the mark he he's always a great Workhorse especially at santanita this is his home track he went one better than he went last year when he was second and it was really cool to see Mike Pegram in the Winner's Circle with Carl Watson because they were the guys that gave Bob his very first Gold Cup victory back in was it 92 I can't remember it was back with

real quiet so this the ninth one is the record breaker and the first one with real quiet so defunded was Stella um I'm not sure about Country Grammar he kind of stubbed his toe a little bit I'm not sure coming back quite so quickly from a grueling campaign was what he really wanted to do he didn't he never really shows that sparkle but he didn't grind on like he usually does so a little disappointing from Country Grammar but defunded really was a force to be reckoned with and that puts him right

in the mix for the Brutus Cup Classic which will be right here at Santa Anita also the big story that Shoemaker Maya was exalted and boy is this horse turned his career around for Peter Urton was just an okay dirt horse he's now a terror on the turf four for four his second uh graded Stakes win in a row a grade one winner now they didn't make the switch with him until he was six years old but in the it's like the reverse cigar here a better late than never and uh Zoe he saw that's a winning you

're in for the Breeders Cup mile and a long way to go for the Breeders Cup and Randy feel free to weigh in on this as well if you'd like but uh right now at the uh Turf mile division in America he's as good as anybody out there I would imagine he was terrific and I don't know if it's just a Turf course or he's a true true out and out Turf horse because it's a big heavy horse he doesn't he looks like a dirt horse I can see why Peter was so reluctant to run him on the grass in the first place beca

use he's a big old clunky old thing but God he loves his Turf course and they went fast and he was right up there with him and almost looked like Juan Hernandez winning his second grade one on the day was almost moving a little bit prematurely and going after the winners but boy he ran a good race um the favorite um that Pratt Road what's his name Randy uh why can't I think of it off the top of my head Harry Hong Kong Harry he got stuck in traffic and was stymied a little bit I'm not sure anyone

was actually going to beat exalted on the day and I asked Peter afterwards I'm like who is a genius that suddenly decided five years old to stick him on the turf course and and he was like well it was me it was me yeah the pedigree doesn't exactly scream Turf he's by twirling candy out of a gilded time mare but obviously yeah when they finally got him on it he was a superstar and about defund it yeah you know by numbers the horses on the East Coast your smile Happy's your um uh West will Powers

your art collectors are better horses by the numbers but I'm not so sure the numbers really do justice to defund it all you have to do is look at his race before last in the Californian where he completely missed the break and still circled the field and Drew off and won by three lanes um and with the Breeders Cup at Santa Anita this year I mean that's going to be he's going to be tough to beat if he uh if he holds form between now and then so yeah some big or some big great ones in San Anita b

ut those two I think really are are the most interesting too well we have Macadamia as well she took down the game leaf for trying to fill the motto his first grade one and win in the race with Thiago Pereira who's been on an absolute tear and she said she's a tricky man to ride she's tough in the morning she'll drop the rider in the morning Thiago goes out each and every week every week and works around the training track without fails so kudos to him but I wanted to mention one more horse who

we will see in the Breeders Cup Sprint Spurt of McKenna did you guys see how good he was in the triple band on Saturday he is a beast is and he's a beast to look at he is one of the most beautiful horses you can see in the flesh by gosafar out of the Gilded time there if you could put the description or the picture of what a horse should look like with that kind of breeding it's him he is amazing well Randy let's get to a subject I know we don't really want to talk about but we have to because t

his uh situation in Churchill Downs is just ranging out of control and reminds me a lot of what happened at San Anita in 2019 for two reasons number one it's a terrible story number two the mainstream media has latched on to this and we now have 12 horses that have died at Churchill Downs since the uh what started with Wild on Ice breaking down um leading up to the Kentucky Derby and you know please don't blame the media for this they're covering a news story that that is something that needs to

be covered but you know we all when this happens we all really worry about what we call the Social license racing social license that has been given to it to continue to operate and I don't think racing is going to suffer any drastic changes or any tracks that can go out of business or anything like that or any State's going to shut racing down Within in the next few years but how might this affect things going down the road and you know where are we going to be 25 years from now um it is reall

y a big part of the discussion I wish I had the answers um but a couple good things have happened and today we had a press conference over heisa talked about what they're doing um to uh try to control the situation and get a handle on that they're working in consort with the Kentucky racing commission and uh Churchill Downs to see if they can come up with anything that is a common factor that has led to these horses breaking down and uh Lisa Lazarus has said that they can't find anything wrong w

ith the track um so they don't know uh really what the story is but at least they are working on that um a couple uh somewhat minor things I mean it's cliche to say this but again the sport has to do everything possible in its in its control to uh get this situation under control and to try to take these numbers and to lessen them as much as you can and I don't think you uh it's really appropriate to point any fingers at Churchill Downs I don't know that they've done anything wrong but I will br

ing up one example of where maybe racing you know we should have thought something like this through in New York there's a rule called the poor performance list and if a horse loses by 25 lengths or more they go on this poor performance list and they can't get off of it until they have a satisfactory workout and uh it is examined by a veterinarian and I think the reason why I know the reason why is if a horse is losing by this many lengths um it may not be because the horse is slow it could mean

that the horse has some sort of problems that is keeping it from performing the horse that broke down most recently Kimberly dream had lost her last three races by a combined 65 and three-quarter lengths including one machine lost by 32 and a quarter lengths I can argue that horse should not have been racing and I think a lot of people would agree with me but you know what even if I'm right about that that gets the number down to 11 and 11 is awful it's just maybe not quite as awful as 12. that

's one little thing that I would hope that Churchill Downs and all race tracks would look at immediately as we're looking for what can we do to make changes to make the situation better yeah Heist is holding a Veterinary Summit in Kentucky and Lexington where you know they're going to try to address the situation and in the Daily Racing Form Matt hegarty reported uh from Lisa Lazarus that she's had talks with Churchill Downs management about the possibility of suspending racing at Churchill for

the short term until they can get a grip on what's going on now that's just conjecture you know that's that's you know that's not anything for sure but it just shows you the uh the level of concern that there is about the situation right now and there needs to be a level of concern people I think too often bill uh within the sport of horse racing and it's human nature I think they want to try to focus in on on one factor one factor one thing that's causing problems uh regardless of what problems

are when normally it's much more complicated than that it's what they say it's what they call multi-factorial there are various different things that combine in a perfect storm uh along with Randomness to cause something like this generally it's got something to do with the racing surface now Churchill Downs says they have uh they have had three different examinations of the racing surface found nothing wrong but they're calling in Dennis Moore who's one of the country's foremost experts on rac

ing surfaces they've already had Mick Peterson look at it but Dennis Moore is now going to give a fresh set of eyes on exactly what's going on with the surface but as we've as the Studies have shown over a long period of time the big majority of the horses that suffer catastrophic breakdowns have some sort of undetected pre-existing injury that leads to it it creates a weakness that then leads to a catastrophic breakdown and the answer is going to have to be the same at Churchill Downs as it was

at San Anita and it's going to have to be the same at other racetracks around the country who felt like they could kind of put this off because it might be more expensive and because oh this is Santa Anita's problem it's not our problem it's everybody's problem they're going to have to come up with a technology which is in the beginning stages out there but just more Veterinary presence uh more examinations more x-rays more ever everything to try to identify these problem horses before it gets

to the point where we have what's going on right now at Churchill Downs so it it's it's various and what you pointed out about you know poor performance and horses that that can sometimes lead to to uh to outcomes like this you know there are a lot of things that are going to have to be considered uh it's not just one answer it's not just one magic wand uh but it's something the entire industry not just Kentucky not just Santa Anita is going to have to look long and hard at all right sorry I got

a little bone to pick with you you twice refer to stories written by Matt Haggerty in the daily racing forum yeah sorry about that bill all right um bring a little light to another wise dreary awful conversation that we're having here hey Randy in tomorrow's third Daily News which I know you will be reading now because I chastise you uh Earl Mack very prominent person in racing and um you know great guy uh he's come out with something that I I think I talked about with you last week when we say

as a uh unified group those of us in horse racing which you know means journalists like ourselves broadcasters trainers owners racetrack management Etc we tell the public that we are doing everything in our power to make the situation better well we're not because the most obvious solution is certain is right in the face and I know it's not going to happen because of the economics of the sport but when horses break down I'm repeating what I said last week but I want to say it again but horses b

reak down three and a half times more likely to break down uh a catastrophic injury in a dirt race in a synthetic surface race then you know why are we not going back to synthetic surfaces I think we gave up on them way too early and again it's it's a pipe dream I know it's never going to happen but you know damn it isn't it time for people to start taking that a little bit more seriously I think that it is yeah I mean New York when they had a a Spate of breakdowns a while back I want to say the

mid-20 teens um they did they instituted some some changes and such uh including maintenance of the racetrack that brought the injury rate down not to the synthetic level but extremely low in New York and New York race tracks and now that's kind of begun to tick back up a little bit but yeah I mean horse racing can't say that we've done everything if there is a surface change out there that that could make uh that could make a huge difference but I agree with you uh it's obviously was tried in

California at all three Southern California tracks um the reviews were mixed although the catastrophic breakdown rate plummeted um and I don't think it's gonna happen either just because of the economics of the sport and the fact that you've got decades and Decades of breeding for dirt and synthetics is not dirt and that you know that would have to change as well but you know it is something that may be more tracks should take a look at yeah I mean that's definitely I agree with you I mean we it

's it's it's one of the answers but it's not going to happen um and but uh please read Earl Max uh op-ed in the Thoroughbred Daily News because he makes um you know some some very good points about that the other thing too is that you know if if something's going on your racetrack pick up the phone and call Santa Anita I I want to know everything that you did I don't care how much it costs I don't care you know what how much extra effort it was again it's not the be-all and end all horses still

break down at San Anita but but rather you know it's become a rather rare uh con uh rare happening out there I hope somebody be at Churchill Downs has picked up the phone called um you know Belinda stronack or uh you know uh somebody at Santa Anita and said tell us how you did this and we're going to follow every single step that you follow because you know this was a huge problem there and it's still a problem but it's a lot less of a problem so um you know call Aiden Butler call uh somebody th

at works for San Anita and pick their brains about this because they have done a better job than really anybody else in the industry addressing these problems couldn't agree more and hopefully we'll have some brighter news to report in coming weeks about this particular situation meanwhile on a much lighter note the TD in writer's room is also brought to you by the Pennsylvania horse Breeders Association the two big Pennsylvania breads that everybody's been talking about Caravelle an angel of Em

pire there's news on Caravel she won't be going to royalize Ascot after all they are now going to point Caravel for the jiper stakes that Terps Sprint on the Belmont Stakes undercard on June 10th as far as angel of Empire right now all systems go for the Kentucky Derby third place finisher to come back in the Belmont Stakes along with the stable might hit show in the Brad Cox Barn uh bill I thought angel of Empire ran a a very solid race in the Kentucky Derby I know the pace helped him but I tho

ught he was going best of all uh in the last Furlong to finish third yeah Randy we've still got a week and a half or so to make our Belmont picks and but uh if you've you know put the proverbial gun to my head I think I might pick him right now I've kind of soured a little bit on tap it twice because I didn't like his Derby I mean we had talked after the Tampa Bay Derby well we know who's going to win the Belmont now it's going to be tabetized and they're gonna he's gonna be really over bet uh i

n there but angel of Empire uh you know you can't follow me we're in a great race in the Kentucky Derby yes the pace was to his benefit but he was right in there fighting to the end and uh it does look like a horse that can go a mile and a half so uh I might be picking the PA bread in the Belmont Stakes we'll find out I like Angel of Empire give me some other angel of Empire how many is plettes you're gonna have in there how many what how many splits you're gonna have in there and Cox I mean it'

s are they gonna have the bulk of the field oh I think to each wouldn't it be right now Tampa Trice and Forte and uh hit show oh I know um I believe Blackhawks is considering a third horse in there but his big two will be a hit show an angel of Empire and uh as we were recording this on Tuesday it looks like all systems are go for National Treasure uh he has worked to the satisfaction of his team at Belmont Park it looks like he is a go uh in the Belmont Stakes which is good to see the Preakness

winner coming back in the Third Leg of the Triple Crown we don't even get that all the time anymore uh as everybody you know wants to head to the hills after the uh Kentucky Derby is over so um you know reasons why we should change the Triple Crown right Randy I finally talked to you into it right all right that again brought to you by the Pennsylvania horse Breeders Association coming up next the green group guest of the week here's a hint ready and down the stretch they come it's gonna be fun

the PA horse Breeders Association presents the Pennsylvania stallion series six races for PA sired PA bread two-year-olds at parks two 100 000 contests at five and a half for alarms on August 21st PA day at the races September 23rd PA Derby day has two races at six and a half for lunch both with a 150 000 purse and in December two races going long each worth two hundred thousand dollars for more go to pabred.com the fastest horse of the week is brought to you by Windstar farm and The Sire Jacob

West once called quote hands down one of the most physically impressive horses I have ever seen more on that stallion later but versus the fastest source of the week based on fire speed figures is defunded with his win in the Hollywood Gold Cup and by the way three cheers for San Anita going back to that name I know they didn't just do it this year but instead of Gold Cup at San Anita a nod to history the Hollywood Gold Cup won by defunded who is head and shoulders right now the best older hors

e in California again only a 100 buyer speed figure but I don't think that quite does the horse Justice the way he's been dominating his competition out there even when he didn't get off to a fast start a couple of races back in the Californian right The Three Amigos uh Pegram Watson Whiteman uh getting back on track after 4 first they lost having a meltdown at Pimlico so that's a nice little turnaround for them it just shows you an horse racing you can be down one week and Sky High the next so

congratulations to all involved in yet another a ninth Hollywood Gold Cup win we said that earlier for trainer Bob Manford defund it the fastest horse of the week now for that fast siren Windstar Independence Hall he was an undefeated Juvenile Set a new Stakes record in the Nashua earning a 101 buyer winning by a dozen lengths he was a Stakes Winner two three and four from six and a half furlongs to nine furlongs all track conditions went wire to wire to win by seven and a quarter in the Fayette

with a 105 fire and he's from the immediate family of Breeders Cup Sprint winner desert Stormer and multiple grade one winner better lucky there's a lot to like there from Independence Hall standing for ten thousand dollars at Winstar now the green group guest of the week brought to you of course by the green group a tax Consulting and advisory firms specializing in the Thoroughbred industry for more information go to www.greenco.com and we bring in now the green group guest of the week this is

a special treat for me green group guest of the week is legendary announcer Dave Johnson and I don't throw that term out Loosely he is indeed a legend and he's been my broadcast partner in Sirius XM radio for these last 17 18 years or down the stretch and it's always great to have Dave on and talk to him go down memory lane but especially with the Belmont Stakes coming up because this is the 50th anniversary of secretaries win in the Belmont and Dave Johnson was on the roof of Belmont that day

calling the race for the New York Racing Association and and Dave welcome and in between the Belmont and the last time you saw Secretariat in the New York track was the Wood Memorial where he was defeated how much did things change over those seven eight weeks or whatever it was amazing bill and it's good to be here with my old buddies today um when he left after the wood he had been defeated and he was he was a loser basically even though when he went to Kentucky he was still the favorite in th

e Kentucky Derby but the point was he had been defeated and if he lost the Kentucky Derby he was definitely going to be retired so with the Kentucky Derby on the horizon he won it he won the Preakness and when he returned to Belmont he would return not as a loser from the wood but on the cusp of greatness because he was one mile and a half away from immortality so that was quite a switch from as he left Belmont and when he came back well Dave we know you're a man of many talents you're you're a

Renaissance kind of guy not just race caller but you've been involved with Broadway uh Sirius XM I didn't realize though that you're actually a record producer as well you remember this I do and there's a story behind it Randy I when I was working as the track announcer for New York Racing Association we went into December for the first time and I went to my boss Jack crumpy and I said this would be a great giveaway it was only a dollar it was one dollar to produce and I said let's give it away

on the first Saturday and anybody who comes in gets the secretary he was a huge star and you know I love Jack crumpy but he said to me well what it's a it's a record and I said yeah he said who has a record player I don't have a record player and that was the end of that so I produced it I sold it through the uh uh through the racing form I think we sold 10 000 of them for eight or ten dollars a piece and then I I sold them on cassettes that was doesn't seem like it Randy but it was 50 years ago

I don't know how I wound up with it I think Don Grisham gave it to me as a Christmas gift it's got 15 of your race hauls of Secretariat's races on here no no I called 16 but I used a lot of other people I used uh uh Phil George F and other announcers I I I didn't I I called 16 of his races right there's not not 16 of mine or 15 on there well I had I have I have two questions about the record first of all uh you used Ray Hayes call of the Belmont Stakes instead of your own why I I just wanted to

have more more sounds on it uh I there were enough of mine on there I don't know how many I think I I by eight or ten of mine I wish I I wish I had used mine on it now it also has your call of this of his final race in the Canadian International at Woodbine how did that come about when Elliott sent me up to uh Woodbine to do the final race on CBS Radio which I did he was a great lover of horse racing Randy and you know he had Sports Central all weekend and he did racing from all over the countr

y as part of it so that's so I got to go up to Canada and call the race uh up at Woodland in the fog and the Mist but he may and think of the pressure on Eddie Maple to ride the the big red horse that day it was amazing Dave so great to have you here Zoe I did because I'm obviously so much younger than Randy and Bill and me exactly I wasn't privy to all of your race calls can you please give me a race call Come On Dave oh yeah so oh it's Randy in front by half a length and here comes Zoe on the

outside coupled with um uh Louise's uh Louis Louise's jambalaya that's that's how I would I would be the jambalaya handicap Bill Finley in the middle of the racetrack and down the stretch they come Bill Finley Zoe between horses Randy at the rail it's a photo finish what a race what a crew [Laughter] awesome I haven't called a race in a long time Zoe that is awesome but I wanted to ask you and then the stretch they come where did that come from how did you monitor it and why is it trademarked I

was using that call when I was at Fairmont Park in the 1960s it's fantastic yes and um I got the the job at Santa Anita and the the racing um sound system there was the same one when I worked there in 1970s as in the 1935 movie Marx Brothers day at the races and uh in order to be heard over any kind of a crowd you had to put a rumble underneath you had to sort of emphasize it and so that was a a phrase I used a lot and down the stretch they come so and so but when this big old white horse bikers

was on his way to the um Santa Anita Derby the handicap the big cap Larry said we had yeah and what a what an eye appealing horse he used to wielder the middle of the track and smoke home with Daryl mccarga board and but in order to be heard I pushed it I pumped it and down the stretch they come and then Zoe people started to say it back to me and um and then the Los Angeles television stations would pick up the call of the race for the evening news at that point no matter where I said it at th

e top of the stretch or the eighth ball or wherever I was down in Atlanta with my sister one time and as I as we were coming down some steps so man said to me and down the steps he comes David Letterman certainly liked it as well oh he loved it he said he he would jump up on on the couch up and down during the stretch drive but I did I did trademark it and we've raised almost three hundred thousand dollars through our good friend Drew Malika who handles all the contracts and the money and we've

we've given every penny of it away to race track Charities to scholarships retired jockeys horses foundations it's it's been a wonderful Money Maker win-win situation and that's how it came about Dave tell Zoe who wasn't even born in 1973 unlike us old guys what was the people talk a lot about the country at that time and how you know come out of Watergate coming out of Nixon Coming Out the Vietnam War um Randy and I were alive I was too little to really you'd be able to process that this sort o

f things but people say this country needed a hero Here Comes this beautiful magnificent horse who filled the void tell us about that well just to put it all in perspective I'm 82 now so I don't know how old you guys are but you're a lot younger than I am so I while I was calling the races and I was really good at it but I was also younger but in Watergate and Vietnam and it was before people scratched off lottery tickets and before Sports books racing was the the great place to to go and make a

legal bet and then Along Comes this great horse with a great crew just think of the crew that it had Lucian Lauren training and Ronnie riding Ronnie turcotte and Mrs Tweedy was a great cheerleader she she just she captured the audience when you'd see her on television rooting for her horse you wanted her horse to win so it was all of those things that came together with this magnificent animal I mean Secretariat just came at the right time and with the right people and and the sport didn't have

the problems bill that it has now with with so many diversions uh it was a it was a great place where I could make a record or Bill Nack could write a book or we could have a television show about him and and people loved Secretariat and loved loved the story and it was a hell of a story well Dave you saw your share of all-time greats even before Secretariat maybe not a Fairmont part I love Fairmont Park but we won't we won't go quite that far um when was it since you called all of his early ra

ces when was it that you that if you recall first saying to yourself wow this horse could be really something extra special well Randy it was before he ever ran you know um he ran on July the 4th the following year that Riva Ridge won the Derby in the Belmont so uh Riva Rich had just come back from winning from losing the Triple Crown but winning the the Derby in the film so Riva Ridge was a star and Secretariat had never run but everybody at the track knew about this big red horse that Lucian L

auren trained that flew like the wind in the morning and everybody was waiting for this big old horse to show up on the racetrack and for a bet yeah yeah so we could bet the horse you know the horse went off at three to one with Paul Feliciano aboard why did Paul an apprentice jockey ride because Lucian wanted to get a better price so we all knew about we all knew about Secretariat because Riva Ridge had been a big star of the year but everybody knew and so when he lost his first race we knew th

at we could give him another chance and so of course then he won his next race and broke his maiden and then I mean the Sanford and the hopeful and you know it was quite a it was quite a two-year-old year it was horse of the year as a two-year-old Randy which is unheard of yeah really really unheard of what what what a terrific time to be in racing and and witness Secretariat and call his races and and we've gone from that to where we are now and I don't know if you realize this but Bill has fin

ally jumped on the soapbox with Randy about oh he knows he knows Purple Crown I mean I didn't think this could ever possibly happen what are your thoughts on it I'm pretty sure I know what you're you know I don't think it'll change in my lifetime but it could uh and I and I totally understand that it could and if it does that's fine but then then you're gonna have to put a little asterisk next to any horse that wins and and Zoe that's the reason just think of what Secretariat did in winning the

Triple Crown he he won the Bay Shore and then he he won the Gotham Mile and two weeks later he won the wood and two weeks later he won the Derby and two weeks later we won the Preakness would anybody do that today look what happened at the Derby only one horse came back out of the Derby field because the pressure was on him and I hated him I bet the winner in the Preakness says bill will tell you Secretariat were racing today they would have passed the Preakness and you know I mean that would ha

ve been the modern thing oh he's tired after running in the in the Kentucky Derby he needs a break uh we'll see at the Travers oh my goodness right okay so Dave let's talk about the race call and you know so you're two minutes and 24 seconds you're on the microphone uh giving to this call what do you remember most about not the race but your race call and how did it feel to see something unfold in front of you that was something I think most people didn't think they could ever ever see or you kn

ow I'm not gonna see a horse with my Triple Crown race by 31 lengths no I thought he would win I know Lucian Lauren thought he would win by 10. he told that you know before the race he said I think I'll win by 10. Ronnie thought he would win the thing bill that I remember the most about my call was coming through the stretch and you have to remember 50 years ago uh we we as announcers all around the country we were prohibited from calling the Finish unless we were doing it on a radio or TV and I

wasn't I was calling it for the track and and we we couldn't call it under the wire because there was something called The Wire Act of 1938 and it it prohibited the the result of the race getting outside the confines of the racetrack until the next race was Runner official you remember I don't think you remember Zoe but Bill and Randy remember when there used to be a string of telephones and before the first race they would lock them up with chains yes so so that was immediately handcuffed ther

e but the other thing is that um I used in my later years uh jockey names and trainer names a lot on television is working with Randy on so many shows but back then at the New York Racing Association I couldn't do that my boss Pat O'Brien uh Pat Lynch got a uh uh uh an interoffice memo it was before emails and it said please inform Mr Johnson that this is not jockey racing it's horse racing don't use the names of jockeys in the call well that's changed a lot I think I helped Jane and Tom Durkin

really helped change that a lot which is great so I remember though in the stretch Drive I called Secretariat in front by 25 Links at the 16th poll and I had never called a horse in a race other than a steeple chase race there were some Steeplechase races that were uh 25 lengths but never in a in a race at Belmont Iraq and so I called him in front by 25 Links at the 16th poll and then I sh I shut the mic off at the 70 at 70 yard mark saying you know it was Secretariat wins the triple crown or so

mething I don't think naira has the the call somebody pilfered it I guess but uh but that's that's what I remember how how gigantic the margin of victory was uh and it seems like yesterday bill doesn't seem like 50 years ago so Dave you referenced Tom Durkin as we get ready to head into this year's Belmont Stakes what are your thoughts about Tom making your comeback in the Belmont Stakes for Fox and does it at all make you wonder hmm I wonder if I could come back for a one-off like that well fir

st let me answer that first I said to my friend Tom Werblin I said I wouldn't come back and call that race for a million dollars and Tom said to me if my dad was your agent it would be 5 million so no I but I think it's great and I uh I I talk an email with Tom all the time as a matter of fact we emailed that yesterday and today and I reminded him that I said that if fox has the eight-year contract that you can do all eight years and still be at the finish of that eight years younger than I am t

oday so I think he's I think it's a great thing that I think Fox is is very smart doing it it's brilliant move especially without a Triple Crown possibility so I think it's great and he's going to be to Tom's terrific he he he's out there practicing uh all weekend at Belmont Park calling it and as he said to me he said I don't I didn't I didn't call into tape there are no more tapes he said I use my iPhone [Laughter] modernization at its best well Dave you're an extremely young looking 82 what d

o you do for fun nowadays we know you do the radio show are you going back to Ascot this year I wish I could no I I haven't I won't be going back to ask it but I do the radio show from where I'm sitting right now and Bill and the producer are on the other side of the room um I was watching Fairmont Park earlier today and Kim Sampson by the way Bill uh she was on our Sirius XM show she's 63 years old she won the third or she won the fourth race I believe how about that though at Fairmount Park so

you know us Old-Timers we're okay the Belmont people who were in racing that day so we'll never see anything like this again and we really haven't but last year we saw maybe the closest thing to secretariate's achievements we saw with flight line how do you compare the two and and what did you think of him there was a lot of comparisons and they used the word Secretariat a lot talking about flight line but he had such a limited career and what was it six races how many did he did he run six six

races yeah and and he I just I just didn't I just didn't like I didn't like the comparison because he never really did what Secretariat did in that short amount of time and and on various distances Sprints distance Turf dirt slop fast firm um but he was he was extraordinary and I didn't think as as we talked for the year before I don't I didn't think I'd ever vote for a horse of the year with six starts or horse into the Hall of Fame but he deserves it he was great it was that was that was terr

ific but didn't do what Secretariat did so I don't think you can compare him can you compare them Randy Zoe from just in terms of Brilliance I think he probably was the most brilliant horse we've seen since Secretariat maybe spectacular bid would be in there you know uh but I I agree with you on accomplishments uh I don't think he can obviously you know secretary did did so much more with 21 lifetime starts packed a lot of of firsts and a lot of Records into that I knew that 21 race career didn'

t he and I think it goes that you know back in the day they weren't afraid to get a whole beaten like he was beat who cares let's run him back in two weeks let's try him on the grass let's do that and he was still brilliant so it's it's chalk and cheese you can't compare horses nowadays to back then because nowadays you got a good cult everyone wants to keep him undefeated which means running them every three months apparently so it's just apples and oranges I don't think we're ever gonna see th

at kind of campaign again which is a shame and and with the Belmont coming up that was the highlight at least for me of his career I mean it was the Pinnacle it was the greatest spectacle in my lifetime of watching horse races what he did that day yeah if you brought any horse in the world to the Belmont that afternoon at a mile and a half Secretariat beats him it said was it was just spectacular it was the greatest moment for me in horse racing was his victory in the in the Belmont I don't thin

k they'll ever match it they do be a better person to weigh in on this than me but I've said that you take any horse in the history of horse racing have them run the best races of their life I'm in Man of War would not have beaten secretary that day I don't think so I mean they would have lost by 31 lengths but I I really think that I mean that's one of those hypotheticals you could never prove but I I think his greatness was so in that race was I mean it was miraculous it's something you can't

even believe that this is happening uh and and it was nobody could believe it happened and and the people who knew racing in the stands and in the Press Box I heard about people in the Press Box saying oh Ronnie's going to get him beat he's going too fast it's a it's impossible to keep this you know 12 seconds uh and it's impossible and damn the horse did it you know it was amazing yeah so I I'm old but I didn't see man of war bills so I thought you called his first race at Jamaica or something

like that okay all right well Davis has been a real treat I get to talk to you every Saturday it's nice on SiriusXM down the stretch on channel 85 from 10 to 1. a great treat to go down memory lane with you and we'll have some fun on the radio show as well as we approach the 50th anniversary of the greatest performance in the history of horse racing thanks for uh having a little chat with these two I've worked with Brandy so many Saturday afternoons on ESPN and Zoe and I um we got to get some mo

re gumbo down in Louisiana thanks Dave thank you Dave and as this week's guest of the week Dave will receive a free one-hour tax consultation from the green group if you want to learn more about how they can save you money on your taxes again that website is www.greenco.com are you paying too much in taxes the green group can help there's a reason the most successful owners breeders and Horsemen select the green group as their tax advisors they save you money and share successful strategies over

the past 40 years the green group founder Len green has owned and bred some of the best racehorses in the history of the sport like Eclipse award-winning Champions jaywalk and Wonder Wheel his DJ stable competes at the highest level and has received the game's most prestigious honors Len Green's in-depth Hands-On industry knowledge combined with Cutting Edge tax saving strategies has produced positive results for his clientele and has made the green group the top rated accounting and tax firm i

n the Thoroughbred business for a confidential and complementary consultation contact us at 732-634-5100 or visit our website at www.greenco.com the green group proven strategies to save you taxes some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year round there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high as his average purse per race outpacing California Florida and New York Kentucky breads breed th

em raise them race them we all win [Music] the GED and Riders room brought to you by Kentucky breads following May Asia's winning the Kentucky Derby Kentucky bread National Treasure became the ninth consecutive Kentucky bread to win the Preakness Stakes you too can reap the rewards of reading and racing in Kentucky and you talk about money combined personally paid at an all-time high 165 million dollars in 2022 way up from 134 million which was big enough in 2021 average field size in Kentucky 8

.4 higher than Florida New York California average money per race purse money 77 000 plus outpacing all other racing jurisdictions with some of the fullest fields in the country quality racing year round there is no better time to breed and race in the Bluegrass and if you believe in Kentucky breads maybe you would have had Rich strike as the winner of last year's Kentucky Derby at 80-1 um an underlay to me at 81 by the way but let's not pick on Rick's strike uh because he is a neat horse and di

d some uh uh that was such a memorable race but this whole Saga of the movie and the owner fighting and the trainer fighting and uh Eric Reid uh resigning the next chapter has been written now and Rich strike is going to none other than Bill Mott to be his new trainer I don't think the owner Rick Dawson could have picked a better person Bill Mott is as good as it gets in this business but he's gonna have his work cut out for him sources is is not only you know has he lost six straight since the

Kentucky Derby but his recent form has been very poor and in the story that Randy didn't read because he was busy reading the racing form I talked to Rick Dawson and he said the next race I just wanted to be competitive just don't want them to you know run up the track and see where we go from there but uh Randy can Beaumont work some magic with Rich strike I I think that sounds like uh your quote of Rick Dawson he's striking the right tone right now about rich strike because he's really got to

turn it around his form is deteriorating he had a bad race with no obvious excuse in the Clark and then they gave him time off and said he was training really well and he basically just ran around the racetrack behind the field in the Ali Shiba on uh on Oaks on the Oaks under card uh Churchill Downs so that's two uh honestly that's two allowance caliber races back to back for our upset Kentucky Derby winners so these they've really got to turn things around if the horse is good enough to turn th

ings around and that's an if then Bill model get the best out of him you know that he's still eligible for Isaiah the land condition so he's got many many ways to go physically he looks in good shape I've watched him in the paddock at Churchill and he he's a beautiful looking horse and they're going to give him a little bit of respite he's at Blackwood right now just going through the motions before he gets to Mark I think he's going to get three horses from Rick Dawson and the other ones are go

ing to go to Gerry O'Dwyer but I mean look what Mark did to um the horse that won the Pacific World Cup my gosh my brain's not a collector I collector he turned the horse around the horse was good initially Tom Drury did a great job with him and then he went down and then Bill got him and uh he went up again so Bill's a magic maker and we'll see what he can do with Rich strike I wish him the best of luck I really did yeah uh and Dawson said that he hopes to have the horse ready to run in Saratog

a maybe the Whitney perhaps the Jackie Gold Cup at a mile a quarter would be more his cup of tea um fusaji Pegasus passed away this week uh famous for winning the Kentucky Derby in 2000 also famous for selling for back uh in the day before uh you know four million dollars was really four million dollars back then uh sold for four million dollars at the Keeneland sale that used to be held uh in July I'm just trying to think that's probably about 10 million in today's dollars and and Randy uh what

are some of your memories of Fu Peg fupe well I remember that Neil Drysdale did not like his horse being called fupeg I know that he thought that was a very undignified name for a Kentucky Derby winner uh it was a fun time uh covering that horse because for many reasons it was fun to hear Neil uh banter with the media you know Neil Drysdale was not one to really love the throngs of media that at the time descended on the back stretch at Churchill Downs and there would be some repartee between D

rysdale and the media you know pity the media member who would come up to Drysdale and say something like so Neil your horse looked really good in the wood Memorial and then there would be silence and Drysdale would say and your question is um but I was actually uh had a funny uh exchange with drazia if you remember before the Wood Memorial okay now the horse had all kinds of antics in the morning right TVG had him flipping uh on their work show to the ground going to the ground one morning befo

re the Kentucky Derby on the back stretch the horse was just play full in drysdale's words uh Drysdale said he would be worried if the Horse stopped doing things like that but it before the Wood Memorial he froze in the walk to the Starting Gate and they couldn't get him going again and he delayed the start and finally they got him going and they got him to the gate so I'm kind of uh shooting the breeze a little bit with Jay Hovey and I said uh yeah I wonder if Neil's concerned about uh about th

e crowd and about food Peg with 150 000 people and all those people in the infield you know by freezing up again and Jason why don't you go ask him and I said sure and Jay said can I tag along yes yeah no problem so I went up to Neil and I posed that question and Neil went hmm so how far does he have to go from the finish line to the Starting Gate and I said about a quarter of a mile how fast do you think the horse can run a quarter of a mile that's all easily 22 seconds and how much time do I h

ave to get him to the gate I said ah you got nine or ten minutes he said I think we'll be okay [Laughter] but it was uh he was quite the worst boy was it was a flop as a stallion though uh he really was the the answer to a trivia question I'll I'll be floored if either of you two can get this trivia question name the horse the american-based horse that won more money than any son or daughter of fusaiichi Pegasus his number one of the famous idea internationally star I didn't give somebody a chan

ce to yes you and the guess International I thought I only did science six champions or all over all over so that's Australia I was actually there when he was sold it was I looked it up because I know I was there the 21st of July 1998 I was actually working the July sale that was back when the July sale was fun at Keelan everyone got dressed up it was like going to Saratoga and I was working we all heard about this horse that was going to make all the money so we got done and it was when the old

buyer came was just a regular old bar you could take your dogs in there and we all ran up to the grandstand and grabbed our beer and watched this horse because I wasn't there in the 80s when Snappy dancer sold for 13 million or what have you well we ran up and watched him sell and I was galloping horses at Keeneland for Chris Becker John Ward purchased the horse for Mr Sega Gucci and he broke him at Keeneland at his Training Center I can remember seeing him he was always a pain in the ass right

he would it was a show horse guy that was the only one that could get on him for on war this guy was about 200 pounds and we would just see this one coat just rearing up constantly constantly and we're like oh is that the one they paid all the money for good luck with that one the four million dollar yearling and then he wound up going out to Neil Drysdale and uh Andy Darlin used to get on him every day poor old Andy might have to go to the calf some liquid courage before he got on him every da

y after the break because if he wasn't rare enough you don't know what he was doing every day he would rear up going to the track and and kneel he's okay just give him a pet Andy just give him a pet and that was just what fusaichi Pegasus did Neil trained into the minute Andy done and wrote him to the minute every single day and Annie was a fabulous writer he's still Galloping to this day one of the best Riders you'll ever see on a horse this fascinates me about genetics right fusaju Pegasus spe

nt more time on his two hind legs almost and he did on all four legs right about about eight or ten years later I'm somewhere on the backside and some horses you know walking around the barn and comes out rears up on his hind legs and the trainer goes damn fusaji Pegasus and I said what do you mean he said it's a sire they all do it right Pegasus I've seen lost to rear up on his hind legs is that he was good at it he would he barely ever toppled over and Andy Andy knew he he knew just how far he

could take him yeah absolutely the xbtv workout of the week is anywho when I asked Sue Finley to get this one anywho any who work five furlongs on May the 28 for trainer John Sandler in company with her stablemate battle call always going better than a company she is a perfect two for two and did actually ship to Churchill Downs Derby weeks run she got a temperature on the plane and was subsequently not entered she is slated to run in Saturday's summertime Oaks at a home base at Santa Anita you

better bet on her she looks terrific we'll be back after this message from XV TV mmm [Music] [Applause] [Music] all the thrills fraction of the bills experience the power of the partnership change your life make new friends and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing West Point thoroughbreds the gold standard in racing Partnerships visit westpointtv.com the TDN Rises room is brought to you by West Point thoroughbreds joining a West Point Thoroughbred can literally Vault you right in

to the Winner's Circle for a fraction of the price on Saturday at Churchill Western command relished the wet track and Blaze time to win handily under jockey Edgar Morales that gave West Point their fifth win of the Churchill meet tops for all owners are you interested in joining a West Point Thoroughbred if so just visit westpointtv.com and click on available horses that's a wrap for another edition of the TDN writer's room I want to thank my cohorts Randy Moss and Zoe Cadman the green group gu

est of the week and my good friend Dave Johnson our co-producers Katie petroniak and Anthony larocca are editors Aaliyah Rocca and Nathan Wilkinson and we had two mascots this week doodle and Lucy so it was good to go there's some pacing back here she's hungry she's she's on the she's on the Rampage all right Lucy we're almost done Randy we'll feed you dinner in just a second so anyways thanks for viewing us thanks for listening we'll talk to you next week here on the TDN rise foreign