breaking news one of Donald Trump's closest White House AIDS is expected to testify in his hush money trial Hope pick was by Trump's side as his 2016 campaign press secretary during the final weeks of the election when he was trying to keep his alleged Affairs off the front pages she testified before the grand jury in March of 2023 and a source with direct knowledge of the situation now tells NBC News she will take the stand once again NBC's Von hilard and MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa ruin wit
h me now uh let's talk first of all van if we can about the relationship between hopix and Donald Trump he broke with a lot of his former White House AIDS uh what do we know about that and and what information she might have right and the H pix has been kind of quiet I mean the last time we were talking about was when one year ago she testified in front of the grand jury specifically to this hush money payment case and now hope Hicks she per uh federal court records dating back to Michael Cohen
when he pleaded guilty he contended at the time that there was a phone call in which she latched not only Michael Cohen but with Donald Trump together and so there's questions about on October 8th 2016 the day that sery Daniels came forward to the National inquire and said that she was ready to share her story but could potentially all but be paid off that there were conversations that hope Hicks was allegedly a part of and then we also know she was on another phone call later that month on the
actual day that Michael Cohen agreed to pay that $130,000 to American Media so the question is does Hope Hicks have testimony to provide about the extent to which Donald Trump was signing off specifically on those payments key question obviously what does she have to say but if the prosecution wants to use her let's talk about her as a witness because we've talked about Michael Cohen somebody who's been convicted of perjury there are other people who are in Trump's Circle who could probably I do
n't know if I'd say easily but there could be pressure on their credibility as a witness right hope picks is somebody who stood by Donald Trump for a very long time for a very long time but and this is a critical but if you look at the transcript of Hope hix's transcribed interview with the January 6 committee you see a person who at the end of her White House service did break somewhat with Donald Trump she didn't leave as acrimoniously as other people did at the same time she didn't share his
belief that the election had been stolen and that at the time was headline making news that hopix had essentially said to him Mr President you and I don't see this the same way and he sort of deprecatingly said to others well hope doesn't believe me but she didn't leave his Orbit on bad terms at least not as bad as many others have left so it remains to be seen what hope pix will be like in a courtroom if she testifies what her demeanor is like with Donald Trump the defendant sitting right in fr
ont of her but does that make her more credible I think it does make her more credible in a way and and in that respect Chris I would liken her to Ivanka who when she testified at the Civil fraud trial because she is no longer a participant in her father's political life because she was known to have advised him in the days after January 6th to be contrite to do things that he didn't do although she was evasive although judging Goran did take some issue with his testimony she was a much more cre
dible witness as someone who's sitting in the courtroom to me than both of her brothers for example were the other thing about her and you touched on this vongh she is not someone who has gone out for example again we keep talking about Michael Cohen but one of the attacks against him from Trump World and presumably his lawyers in court is going to be he's made so much money off of Donald Trump including the women who were involved in this they've just used this as a money-making machine we have
not seen hope pics necessarily out there day after day week after week on cable television trying to keep her profile up she hasn't put on her own podcast she is somebody who has kind of gone quietly since leaving the Trump Administration and somebody that nobody in Trump world has ever questioned the loyalty to Donald Trump of in 2016 he had such a small campaign brass Corey lowski hope Hicks they were the right hands to Donald Trump of course Corin lowski he got pushed aside and you would see
new campaign managers come in new Chiefs of Staff come in who was there for most of that time in the the White House it was the hope Hicks and it gets to the heart of the question too she had potential opportunities to go on the airwaves and tell her own story and a tell all interview she has never gone publicly to talk about whether Donald Trump knew that $130,000 was intended to go to stormmy Daniels that's at the heart of the question Michael Cohen says that Donald Trump knew that's what he
was paying him for Donald Trump says I know that I was paying Michael Cohen but he contends that he didn't know exactly what for Hope hits may be that link it may have that answer the other thing Von is the access right when Donald Trump trusts you and you're in that Circle you're there right so we don't know how much necessarily she knows or at least not publicly we don't know no and to what extent was she engaged in those phone calls between Michael Cohen and Donald Trump on October 8th and Oc
tober 28th was she simply listening in because if you were simply listening in on a phone call that could be good enough testimony and of course clearly the prosecution heard from uh uh hope Hicks when she went before the grand jury so she they know that she has something to tell and there's a reason that they would be calling her back to the stand in front of the actual jury I just want to underscore something that Von just said Chris about Hope being on the phone calls irrespective of what she
contributed to them the very fact that she was a third party to those conversations situates her differently from so many other potential Witnesses here in fact one of the shortcomings of the DA's case here to the extent that there are some is that in many respects it will strike the public as a he said he said right Donald Trump and Michael Cohen were alone having conversations or in some cases we're joined by Alan weiselberg who for his own reasons is not likely to be a witness here to the ex
tent that hope Hicks can say no this conversation happened and I was privy to it that in and of itself is a very big deal and a score for the Manhattan DA's office there's another part of this hush money trial that I want to ask you about because um Donald Trump is continuing his social media attacks against the judge and his daughter and he posted a link to a New York Post article over the weekend it included photos not just of the judge and we all know what he looks like but also of his daught
er and claimed she's making money off the case something that has absolutely not been shown to be true but is he pushing the judge to go even further with a gag order which right now does not cover the judge or his family I think he is I think he's definitely pushing all those buttons and exploiting an existing loophole you know the Manhattan DA's office asked last week judge Maran to confirm or clarify that the judges family the DA's family are subject of this gag order it's because they want t
o Short Circuit a much longer form of briefing in the case that leaves Miss Maran exposed during that period of time they don't want to have two three four weeks full of briefing about Donald Trump's First Amendment rights so I think including her picture for example is one among many things that might push Maran into a place where he says this is out of bounds this is over the line and and now that I've defined to you what the line is if you cross it I will in fact take up the invitation of The
Da to hold you in criminal contempt as they suggested in their letter last Friday Lisa ruin Von Hill here fascinating stuff thank you both thank you hey everyone MSNBC has a new and improved app you'll get realtime alerts and Analysis live blogs in-depth essays video highlights and the best 2024 election coverage download the new MSNBC app here's how to do it you tap on the App Store on your phone you hit search on the bottom right corner you type in MSNBC you click on the MSNBC app you click o
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