some people can't seem to get into their heads you can be a Westerner and a Muslim you can be somebody who's integrated and a Muslim to suggest the whole of London 600 M squared is a no-o area is simply not true people are right to be angry you can't wake up and watch those images and not either cry and weep or be angry and you know uh we got to call out our politicians you know but the idea that we have you know uh a more stringent test on labor when we're in opposition for the last 14 years th
en we doing the party of government I think is a bit naive and a bit wrong welcome to the big picture podcast my name is Muhammad Hassan and today we sit down with London mayor sadic Khan Khan made history when he took over the high-profile position in 2016 making him one of the most influential Muslim politicians in Britain and arguably the Western World he's now looking to break ground again and become the first London mayor to secure a third term if he defeats his conservative Rivals Susan Ha
ll in May the toting born lawyer stems from humble beginnings the son of an immigrant bus driver but has become a political Insider in the labor establishment winning both praise and condemnation his supporters say he's transformed the city embracing its diversity and its europeanness in a time of brexit while his detractors accuse him of everything from islamized the city and making it unsafe for British Jews to Turning against his Muslim Roots altogether but he's attempted to walk a pragmatic
line in a winter of anger when Mass rally IES gripped London amid calls for a ceasefire in Gaza and an end to the UK's support for Israel's government he's now attempting to secure the city's large British Muslim vote once again at a time when many are vowing to punish labor at the polls for its failure to be a critical voice in Parliament and for his leader cir starmer's pro-israel statements so does he think he can convince them otherwise mayor sadak Khan welcome to the big picture it's a plea
sure to have you with us it's great to finally be asked to be on so it's thank you for finally having me on thank you I mean it's it's a it's uh we're glad to have you um in the middle of this uh campaign in the middle of Ramadan how's the fasting been going how's it treating you well alhamd we're recording this as we went the last 10 days uh really important last uh 10 days but it's been look you know I love Ramadan uh I love campaigning but the two together are quite challeng and so I always t
ell people who are new to my team can I apologize in advance for the next month I'm very miserable when I'm deprived of caffeine yeah sleep and uh food I love campaigning so that you know trying to do both is difficult but alham I can't complain it's been it's been a good Ramadan for me this is a bit of a personal question how's your how's your breath this this moment in time yeah so for those who are watching this who don't understand what we're talking about so so there's there's a lovely Hadi
th the saying of the Prophet P upon him saying actually the that your your breath in Ramadan obviously doesn't doesn't smell lovely for for the humans but don't worry about that there are blessings in relation to so so I'm chillax about that and stuff the problem is not so much my breath um but it's I talk a lot because of my job and it's the lack of moisture in my mouth so you know as it is I speak fast and I I'm I'm accused of mumbling in Ramadan I think more so so so but it's I mean look you
know there are people who during the month of Ramadan are still performing surgery are still you know cleaning out uh you know stations who are driving buses and stuff right we've got to carry on uh do do that's the whole point of the fasting right because it's the sacrifice you're making whil it's carry on carrying on as normal what you know I think is not sensible is to you know sleep for the entire day because you know that's the easy way for the fast to pass and so I do try and be productive
hopefully uh people don't think I'm less productive during the month of ran but it is challenging I mean I miss two things one is the caffeine Frankly Speaking and two is the sleep but you know alhamdulillah we get through alhamdulillah I mean the good thing is is that both of us are fasting so I think we're on the same energy level at this point well the worst thing is I often do debates or you know maybe doing Media stuff and they'll put a glass of water there right so I said don't put any do
n't put water there because human the the memory muscle is you drink water to no no because it can happen so fortunately because we're both fasting no danger of any water being nothing although I feel really bad that I haven't offered any of you guys drinks and I think my mother would be terrified right now at my manners but but we're here when we're we're we're talking and we're we're getting along um how's the campaign going this is your third time uh it will be a historic third term in office
why do you want the job again well this this has been the toughest campaign so far and we still we're recording this was with 33 days to to go so there's still a long time to go in the campaign and you know before I decided to run uh you know I spoke to other people who'd you know run for a third time uh in this country you know uh and overseas and third elections are very hard because you've got to you know but by the nature of the job over a period of time there will be some people who you kn
ow will be displeased that's just the nature of any job uh but what excited me about running this time was we have an opportunity this year the phrase I use is a moment of Maximum opportunity we got the chance of having you know a labor mayor working with a labor government and why do I say that I've been mayor for eight years and throughout the eight years we've had a conservative government I've had I've lost count of how many prime min I've had start David Cameron Theresa May Boris Johnson I
don't know if we have time in this podcast and so it's been really hard so you got an anti- London chaotic government and we've achieved a huge amount not withstanding that you know we've now for the first time in the history of our city give every child that goes to a primary school free Mill we now we've Frozen fairs five of the last eight years we're building record numbers of council homes affordable homes uh we are you know increased placing from City Hall opened youth clubs and so forth th
at's despite the government imagine what we could do with a mayor and a government on the same side and that's why I'm so excited and 8 years is a long time to be in any role um but to be in a role as influential as this one how do you think you have shaped the city in that time well when I look back at you know when I first became mared in 2016 uh you know it's just just before uh the referendum when you know our country V just leave the European Union with the trauma of brexit in 2017 we had f
our terrorist attacks on our city we had the awful fire in gral Tower 72 people perished uh we had the pandemic we've had Putin's invasion of uh Ukraine we had the cost of living crisis we've had the awful list trust conservative budgets has been really tough uh the joke when people meet me is the only thing I've not had is a a plague of locust uh you know uh sort of fero esque uh but I think despite that I'm really proud of the progress we've uh made so without you know the government being sup
portive you know for the first time in the history of our great City for the first time ever every child that goes to a state school now receives a free school more that's something I'm really proud of for the first time in the history of public transport in London in five of the eight last eight years we've Frozen fears we've opened a new line the Elizabeth line we've brought in the hopper Fair those who can use unlimited bus in the course of uh an hour Council housing which is Affordable you k
now the highest number since the 1970s the most homes completed anytime since the 19 uh 30s we providing young people with mentors why is that important because I was blessed I had big brothers who are a mentor to me many young londers hav't got a mentor we're providing that we're providing funding for youth clubs and youth workers 500,000 young people have positive things to do because of our uh uh funding and importantly I've stood up for our values that means standing up to Trump that means y
ou know recognized in my view that the importance of our diversity which is a strength not a weakness but you know it's been tough but it's been incredibly enjoyable there's a phrase I've got which is uh there's you know two words uh London promise the London promise is very simple it's you work hard you got a help in hand and you can achieve anything for too long londoners haven't had the help in hand and I've sought over the last eight years to be that help in hand but just imagine how much mo
re that help would be if we had a labor government and a labor may you know what I've said in the over the last week in the last eight years I've been rowing against the tide of a conservative government there's a possibility this year if people vote the right way for the next four years to have the wins of a labor government at my backs and that's what's exciting what difference do you think that will make to the way that you want to run the city yeah so look I'm not claiming by the way that yo
u know if we have a labor May and labor government they're going to write me a blank check no but the point is they wouldn't be constant you know obstructionist in my way they wouldn't always be putting obstacles in my way I'd be able to pick up the phone I'd be able to explain why we need stuff whether it's longer term budgets whether it's more investment and the good news is by talking with the labor party nationally they've already agreed to do a number of things that we think are important s
o they've agreed to work with me so we'll have tens of thousands of new Council homes over the next few years the labor government's promise is 1.5 million homes in their first term many that's going to come to London I was with the shadow Home Secretary last week and she's agreed to fund 1,300 additional police and uh you know Community Support officers and I'll be meeting other members of The Shadow cabin over the next you know six five six weeks to ance further policies that shows the differe
nce if you're on the same team you can make and my frustration is actually a lot of the things we want to do shouldn't be about Party politics surely everyone wants to invest in young people everyone wants to reduce crime everyone wants to make sure we address the housing crisis but unfortunately over the last eight years the government's been very antagonistic towards me because I'm you know not from their tribe uh and over the last 14 years I think this has been a really chaotic divisive gover
nment is there anything that you regret not being able to achieve in your time all of my regrets stem from uh you know my inability to persuade the government to be more supportive look all of us have regrets there's not a day I've gone to bed and not had regrets but the big regrets is what I mean the big regrets are because of you know lack of government support in relation to housing or policing or youth club or relation just stand that up for our values and I and I I reflect could I have done
more to persuade them uh to to do things differently but listen there's not I I'll go to bed tonight and there'll be mistakes I made uh today I think anybody who thinks they're a perfect professional whether it's a journalist or a politician is is fooling themselves and you know of course I look back on things and I think well I could have done that differently or that differently and the key thing is to learn so each day you have to have the humidity to realize what you do tomorrow and you kno
w that's that's how I try and live my life whether when I was a lawyer I did the same thing when I was 11 years a lawyer whether I was when I was a parliamentarian you know the pleasure of being in the cabinet uh uh or whether it's now I think you should always have the humility to think you know what how can I learn from that what can I do better tomorrow and what do you hope to do better uh in the next couple of years if you do win yeah the the the really exciting thing is actually not always
worrying about what the government's going to do that looking over your shoulder because they're going to you know brief the newspapers or you know you know withhold money I'll give you an example during the pandemic uh you know the reality is people followed the advice and stayed at home right now we in the transport sector Transport for London rely upon passengers to pay their fairs and that's what gives us the money to provide services and people stayed at home so we had no money coming in so
we had to go to the government to ask for support and they attached all these Draconian conditions to the money they gave us to keep public transport running and those conditions were awful for for uh uh London in the future I'm hoping because there'd be a government that wants us to succeed they won't lay these elephant traps or these conditions which benefits nobody in London it's just pling Party politics and you know I think the public is fed up of you know politicians posturing pling polit
ics capital P I want politicians just to provide decent Services look after the well-being to enable them to fulfill their potential and I'm hoping you know that this this year you know as I said a moment of Maximum opportunity people will take advantage of that you know give me their vote give the L party their votes in the general elections and they will see the difference a labor government and a mayor working together can make you know in the last 24 years the last 24 years there's only been
one period one 4-year period where there's being a labor government and a labor mayor through that one four-year period we won the Olympics we secured crossrail and in one year alone 8,000 Council homes so that's just you know one imagine what we could do the next years the labor taking credit for the Olympic wins we won the Olympics yeah in 2005 the the bid that went to the IC was was yeah it was a labor May working with the labor government absolutely do you want to bring the Olympics back 20
40 watch this space all right good now uh you've had your fair share of criticism of course everybody has some of it has particularly honed in on your identity as a Muslim in a city with a large Muslim Community and I mean recently just in the last couple of weeks uh Lee Anderson the former deputy chair of the conservative party said that you were under the control of islamists um you know you have your uh your opponent um Susan Hall who dismissed um your kind of complaints of islamophobia sayin
g that they were quote unquote hurty words um how do you Faire with this kind of criticism especially when it targets your identity well my starting point is I think all of us have multiple identities there's no one thing that defines me so I'm a proud Londoner born and raised in this city I'm I'm British I'm of Pakistani origin of Asian Heritage of Islamic faith I'm a father I'm a husband so some people can't seem to get into their heads you can be a Westerner and a Muslim you can be somebody w
ho's integrated and a Muslim and what you see are examples of you know not just um islamophobic tropes uh lazy untruths super NE realizations but clear examples of islamophobia anti-muslim hatred and racism and it's really important it's called out for what it is there should be no hierarchy when it comes to racism the comments that the former deputy chairman of the conservative party made are clearly according to any independent uh experts islamophobic and anti-muslim and uh racist what upsets
me more than those words is one the British prime minister and his cabinet refused to call them out for Islam as islamophobic or racist or anti-muslim two the impact that has forget me you know I don't want any special treatment don't feel sorry for me what impact does it have on a young person thinking about a Korean politics thinking about joining a mainstream political party or thinking about this country giving them a sense of belonging and pride when senior people can say things uh like uh
this I mean just think about the words you you attributed you said that Hall my conservative opponent said so my conserv conservative opponent wants to be mayor of this great City the most diverse city in the world we have Muslim people here Jewish people here Christian people here uh Hindus here siks here those who are members of an organized faith and on what words did she use what the words you just said she used uh the quote is hery words that's she so she say she's saying hty words would an
ybody say the phrase herty words when somebody say saying that was anti-Semitic or sexist but you can say hty words because these words are islamophobic anti-muslim and uh racist she aspires to be mayor of this uh great City and you know that's a problem for me as a Londoner because I don't want somebody like that being the mayor of this great City and let me be frank you know we there there's been some research done you know when Donald Trump was the president the amount of hatred I received we
nt up by 2,000 percent so there is a link between language used by politicians people in positions of power influence and the impact it has not just on me but on Muslims or people look like Muslims across the country women having their uh hijab torn off young boys because they look like Muslims being verbally and racially abused mosques having criminal Damage Done to them and I think look one of the great things about London is you know you're free to be who you want to be you're free to worship
how you want to worship and that sort of language doesn't make Muslims feel welcome that should worry all of us because I think you know if we're going to succeed in you know making sure uh you know that our diversity is a strength our diversity is a sign of weakness it makes us richer not poorer it makes us stronger you know not weaker then we want politicians who represent us to understand that so one thing that you've said in the past is that uh there is a correlation between Rising tension
in the Middle East and Rising anti-Semitism obviously there's Rising tension after October 7th and during the war in do you think that there has been a rising anti-Semitism in this country well first things first look um we'll talk shortly about October the 7th and what's happened since there can be no excuse for anti-Semitism or islamophobia there can't be any excuse you can't attribute the actions of what you know the IDF do or what Hamas do to londoners because they happen to be Jewish or Mus
lim and it's wrong it should be called out I think it's possible to be somebody who is pro Palestinian to be against the occupation for the last few decades and to call out the actions of hamus on October 7th I think similarly it's possible to be somebody who's pro-israel passionately pro-israel and to call it the actions of IDF orchestrated by Netanyahu uh in Kaza since uh October what I think is wrong and should be called out you know irrespective of people's background is anti-Semitism and is
lamophobia it can't be right uh that you know people are scared to wear the Star of David can't be right that people are scared to wear the hijab and I'd remind you know people in London and across the country and in the Western World look as tragic and heartbreaking we're going to talk about it shortly as the events in haa are you know God willing at some stage they will stop and we got to carry on being friends neighbors and colleagues and it makes it much harder when you see this increase in
anti-Semitism and islamophobia and I'm afraid there's an increase in both of these things things there should be no hierarchy when it comes to racism or you know hatred we should do both things equally there has been criticism on you and your Administration for failing to kind of address that rise and anti-Semitism in London in particular um the quote you know note that London has become a no-o zone for Jews especially on weekends when there's marches prop Palestine matches you know we're speaki
ng right now there's a prop Palestine match happening in the city as we speak that comment can comes from Robin simox the government's commissioner for countering extremism you are obviously campaigning you're having conversations with British Jews uh London Jews as well do you think that there is truth there is way to those words no listen uh I think there are some people who uh try and pit communities against one another try and pit people against one another uh I prefer to to unite people and
bring people uh together so it's important to understand the context of what's happened over the last six months I'm somebody who spent my entire professional life trying to encourage particularly minority communities Muslims and others to get involved in mainstream politics to get involved in being active citizens living in a democracy now being an active citizen isn't simply voting once every four or five years it isn't just you know uh lobbying your MP or writing a letter it's also protest p
rotest in protest is intrinsic to live in in a democracy right speak to those in North Korea or in Russia they would give their left arm to have the right to protest and actually the reason why protest is important is if you like it's a it's a it's a if you think about pressure call it's a safety valve it allows people to vent Express their feelings and put pressure legitimate pressure on people in positions of power and influence it also sends a message of solidarity to those under siege in hza
whether it's in Rafa or or elsewhere but that protest should be lawful peaceful and safe and so the police will and I don't apologize for this the police will take action if somebody breaks the law that's why protest should be lawful peaceful and safe and the vast vast vast vast vast vast majority of people who are protesting hundreds of thousands in London every other every few weeks have been protesting lawfully peacefully and safely a very small minority have been uh you know acting in a way
that's not acceptable and the police have taken action to suggest the whole of London 600 miles squared is a no-o area is simply not true and I spend a lot of time every day speaking to Jewish friends neighbors and colleagues they don't think London's a no good area but some Jewish people are frightened about coming into London on some days they are anxious and we should understand that and listen to that concern and anxiety and so what I'd say to those protesting is of course protest but just
be conscious that sometimes you could be you could be saying and doing stuff that may be lawful but it's scaring people that shouldn't be scared and so you know most of the protest all the protests in in terms of pro Palestinian have been uh coordinated with the police they work very close together the protesters and the police they agree the time of day to start the protest so the protest start after uh the Sabbath Service uh you know the Shabbat service one protest was delayed by agreement wit
h the protesters to allow B Mitzvah to finish because what the protester didn't want to do is cause an anxiety to those people celebrating the B miter so you know all I'd say in respectful ways if people you know you know um look at look at this you know you know in a way that's you know uh dispassionate people are taking advantage of their Democratic rights the vast vast majority are behaving themselves not breaking the law a small minority you know actions been taken against them but what you
wouldn't want to do surely is live in a country where protest is banned a politician could decide which protest take place and which doesn't just imagine the consequence of that it means a politician could say this protest is allowed because I like the issue this protest isn't allowed because I don't like the issue what's next telling the police who to arrest telling the police who to charge what's next telling the judge who to find guilty so I think you know living in democracy there is a tensi
on sometimes that's why we have a separation of powers what we got to make sure we do though is don't let anybody feel that they can't they don't welcome into London and that's why we'll take action against anybody who breaks the law it's been almost 6 months now since October 7th and uh since the beginning of the the war in Gazza um which you know by uh the United Nations estimates is you know this is a a group of people that are on the rink of famine um how do you understand how do you feel ab
out what's happening there right now well there's a reason why I call for a CA back in October um because it was clear to anybody watching not just the images coming out of Raza but listen to all the groups working there these are independent groups by the way uh not not Muslim faith the groups working there on the ground look at what the United Nations were saying uh that there needed to be an immediate C5 back in October there hasn't been we're not talking almost six months on you know 32,000
people it's probably Higher by the time this goes out have lost their lives uh a third or more are children there are trucks containing food containing medicine containing Aid that conqu get into uh Kaza uh what the United Nations has said just this week is you know starvation should not be used as a weapon of War right we're not talking about situation that is a consequence of a natural disaster this is a man-made catastrophe I think it's possible to condemn and I do condemn the actions of hamu
s I want those 134 hostages to be released but for goodness sake this is madness 33,000 people have died uh and many more going to perish over the course of the next few days and weeks every day you wake up to images of more people dying this is not an issue that's an issue because you know it's a Muslim issue or a Palestinian issue or an Arab issue it's an issue of humanity uh I think it's really important for that you know ceasefire to happen for food Aid and medicine to get in and We Know lis
ten one of the reasons why Netanyahu wants this war to go on longer is it self-preservation for him how many were men women and children are going to die because of his career and you know we need to make sure that we continue to exert pressure on President Biden prime minister sunak because rushi sunak and Joe Biden are the two closest allies to Netanyahu uh this has not been anti-israel this has being anti Netanyahu and anti- killing and anti-de the United Nations special reporter for Palestin
e Franchesca albanesi just in the last couple of days came out and and said that uh Israel's actions in Gaza amount to genocide uh there is obviously a case before the icj that was brought forward by South Africa um that describes Israel's actions as genocide would you describe Israel's access is genocide well I'm quite careful not just as a former lawyer but somebody who's the mayor of London what the international court of justice said is plausible genocide and the interim judgment and we got
to wait for the the final judgment but I applaud South Africa for bringing the case and don't remember in my lifetime South Africa was in a paride nation and and you know I've met many South Africans in London who are incredibly proud that their country is now uh Ming moving these sorts of cases in the icj Bear in mind their their awful history in my own uh lifetime so so let's wait and see what the icj concludes in its final uh judgment but I think the interim judgment should have been a wakeup
call for those who uh you know are close to Netanyahu to put pressure on him to realize the what you know people are dying every day what benefit you know is it is it bringing to you in the medium to long term in the short term yes keeping you in your job but in the medium to long term what benefit is it bringing to either Israel or the occupied uh territories but you know there are widows being created there are orphans being created there are amputees being created there are maimed people as
a consequence being uh created and we're going to have another generation another generation of hatred of animus and a two-state solution is further away than it is now and also people don't seem to realize is there are members of the Israeli government now dismissing the idea of a two-state solution not being called out by you know the British government and I think they should be called out you've criticized uh Richi Suk and his handling of the situation how do you feel about the way that the
labor party has handled it how do you feel about the way that siraki stammer um who's come under a lot of criticism for his um what people perceive as as kind of blanket pro-israeli uh comments back in October there were um you know broke away from him when you called for a ceas fire he did it for several months um he also you know was uh commenting on um an interview I think it was an LBC interview where he where he uh seemed to appear to condone um what is collective punishment of of people in
Gaza how do you feel that he's handled it do you think it's been any better than Rishi tunak what what remind you your listeners uh you know those watching this is you know the lab party isn't isn't the party in government the lab party is not government when I was in government uh K Gordon Brown was the uh prime minister it's the party of government that's in the cockpit and Gordon Brown called for a ceasefire 2009 when the idea Israel attacked hza uh didn't have an impact so so Gordon jumped
on a plane went to the United Nations the UN Security Council put on a motion for a ceasefire the us abstained but once that ceasefire motion was passed by the security Council within a week there was a ceasefire in aaza the idea pulled out so what the United Nations says does matter it's it's unfortunate there isn't labor government I think you know criticism of you know K as prime minister would be legitimate we could have that conversation but he's in opposition and so yeah of course you know
on this issue we may disagree but you know he wants a two-state solution he's criticized the actions of uh Israel he's called for proportionate response from uh uh Netanyahu he's been demanding access of food Aid and medicine but he's an opposition politician and a lot of attention I understand is focused on uh you know politics in Parliament but actually that allows the government off the hook we got to be we got to make sure the government is held to account for the way they've behaved in the
last five and a half uh six months and the point I make to my friends in America who are Democrats as well is listen you know President Biden is the president he's not the opposition leader and we should be putting pressure on you know both President Biden and prime minister soon to take action You could argue that being an opposition grants you a lot more flexibility to be increasingly critical of the government and his position and the criticism of kir is that he hasn't been anywhere near eno
ugh crit critical of of the British government's foreign policy towards Israel well listen I heard this week both K and David Lamy criticizing the Israeli government I mean there be conversations about you know should uh you know they've called for a ceas fire sooner rather than uh later you you'll understand the argument there was in relation to the hostages lot people know where I stand on this issue and uh you know currently there there's um there's some of your peers in labor um that are cal
ling um for a ban to exports of you British arms you know selling weapons to Israel um there's a petition that is being put forward by uh your colleague Zara sulana is this something that you support absolutely I think the British government should be asking serious questions about what the weapons they uh export are uh used for they should not be used in a way that you know there's even a question marks about international law being uh breached forget the icj interim uh judgment there are thing
s the British government can do and must do and in the past labor governments have uh done so a number of things at the disposal of the British government they could be doing to exert pressure on Netanyahu I made the point earlier on that Rishi sunak has you know boasted about his pride in his closeness to Benjamin Netanyahu well the whole point about so-called special relationship is to use it where's the evidence of any pressure being exerted on N to to stop what he's doing uh well back in 201
6 you know when you were asked about your former positions on the BDS campaign boycott divestment and sanctions and the call by Palestinian Civil Society for for boycotts uh economic boycotts cultural boycotts against Israel as a tool of pressure uh you said in 2016 that you no longer believed in boycotting Israel today with everything that's happening this something that you still stand by yeah look when you have conversations with not just the those in those Palestinians uh in around the area
but also when you see who would suffer the consequence of the BDS I'm not sure that I don't think that's the right way forward no why why is that because what you're doing is you're punishing everyone in relation to you know BDS whether it's boycotts whether it's divers whether it's uh sanctions it's not uh micro targeted about what what you want to achieve but also the the uh downside far aways the the upside so understand why people feel passionate about this uh you know Israel is the only nat
ion in the world that's you know Jewish majority so people are nervous about the impact it has on Jewish people as well as those you know Palestinians many of them are Muslims who working the occupied uh territories so you know people understandably are trying to think about levers they can you know pull in relation to putting pressure on na yahu I think they're much more effective levers the British government has well you mentioned South Africa um and apart that South Africa in particular and
and boycotts and sanctions were key tools that were used to Rally support um for thec CE of you know support against uh apartheid which inevitably was successful in bringing down uh the apar system know if you speak to historians in relation to D Clerk and Botha and others in relation so I'm not sure that's factually right but we can agree to disagree on that okay I mean I just in terms of you know uh those levers that you mentioned um what kind of levers exist for Palestinian the closest the cl
osest allies of Israel is the US and the UK right those are the closest allies the only the outliers are the the UK and the US most other countries in the world just look at the votes in the UN over the last 5 and a half months uh the only you know you know Russia and China for different reasons uh but it's been UK and the US now the UK is starting to move a bit you know so is the uh us and that pressure is really important both the US government and the UK government why because Netanyahu needs
the support of uh the us we've seen in the last 408 hours a power movement from Netanyahu in relation to um uh C fire we got to hope that the pressure from President Biden is pay off because that's what's needed a ceasefire and that ceasefire needs to be you know not just for 24 hours or 48 hours it's got to be ceasefire the last you know for months and then years ceasefires that last for months and then Years start with a day then two days then a week then two weeks and that's the pressure tha
t's going to be exerted by um by the governments of the UK and the US which are the two governments who are the closest to n and Israel so you don't think boycotts are an effective form of uh of antiv violent resistance in relation to what's happening in hen now it will have no impact okay and in terms of what is happening in the labor party um there's been a lot of Divisions internally over the the labor party stance um there's also been a lot of spill out with labor party voters and voter base
particularly within Muslim communities and we've seen in recent weeks in recent months uh a lot of organizing around uh independent candidates um you know the rdale uh byelection was an example of that and there would be a lot of people in London that are thinking about do I want to support a Labour Party candidate do I want to support a Labour party mayor what do you say to them and what do you uh I mean surely you're meeting a lot of uh Muslims uh Muslim con constituents these days especially
during Ramadan and a lot of them are angry a lot of them are upset at the labor party what's your response to them well the choice at the general election I mean obviously I'm in a different position to the labor party nationally but the choice of the general election uh is not between uh K st's prime minister or somebody with a perfect policy on Palestine uh you know the choice is K's prime minister or Richi sunak that's the choice that is it there's only two choices and how is Richi sunak as
prime minister working for you how's it working for you in relation to foreign policy how's it worked for you in the last six months with haza how's it work for you in relation to your hospital how's it work for you in relation to your local school how's it work for you in relation to the cost living crisis how's it work for you in relation to the last four 14 years in austerity and that's a choice or Karm who's going to be a change prime minister uh and you know the option of allowing best to b
e the enemy of perfect or best to be enemy of good and if you don't vote for uh you know the lab party in in the general election it's one less for the conservatives to get and the conservatives work on the basis that the opposition is divided the conservative party is the most successful political party in the western Democratic World why because they're not to win elections they will sometimes change the rules to make it easier to win they done with my election they brought in photo ID so ever
yone needs photo ID to vote now why have they done that because 900,000 londoners haven't got vot to ID poor londoners black asan minority ethnic londoners those who live in R recommendation tend to vote for me they've also brought in first past the post so if you vote for green first or libom first or independent first you can't vote for me second you got to vote for just one person that's why they're successful and those who are unhappy with the conservatives if they Splinter don't be surprise
d if you wake up the day after the general election with Rishi sunak as the Prime Minister how the last five conservatives worked out for you Cameron Johnson May truss and sunak it's a it's a tough uh argument to to put forward to to a voter uh especially somebody who is feeling um very uh heartbroken moved by what's happening in Gazza and and is looking for a sense of leadership in their country especially from their politicians and uh if you talk to some of these organizers you know the Muslim
vote for example the the organization that is that is trying to mobilize um different voter bases they'll say that there is a 4% constituency in this country that's Muslim uh in London it's about 10% right and they have traditionally almost you know assuredly voted labor and have been taken for granted as a result and now is an opportunity to show that the Muslim vote actually is something significant that should be paid attention to let's let's deal with this Muslims have been taken for grante
d which party uh allowed for the first time ever uh Muslim faith schools wasn't the conservative party there were historically in this country Christian faith schools Jewish faith schools wasn't Muslim faith schools who who brought that in it was the lab party which party brought in laws to protect termination against followers of Islam as the lab party which party has supported those parts of our country which are the poorest most deprived where most Muslims live it's the lab party which party
cancelled debt of the poorest count in the world wasl the majority countries the LA party which party in government get did more trade with the poorest countries in the world who are Muslim countries the ler party which party had the first ever MP of Islamic faith the ler party which MP had the first member of the House of laws of Islamic faith the party which party the first ever me member attending cabinet who was a Muslim the party which party had a candidate who stood to be mayor of London a
nd won the election in the most anti-islamic make the most islamophobic uh racist campaign in history the LA party so look we can talk about you know the imperfections of the lab party my point being is no part is perfect and the choice in the moral election is me or the mention the person you mentioned who said things clearly islamophobic that's the choice in the moral election only one of us is going to win so you want to wake up on May the 3D with her as the mayor and the choice in the genera
l election is is Jo the same old same old with the conservative uh government because that's a choice with respect the choice isn't George Gallow as prime minister or or sunak it's K or Rishi uh sudak and you know one of the things I've sought to do as a politician my entire life is in a respectful non patronizing way to embark on political education we've got to encourage people to join political parties get involved in mainstream politics that's why I feel so strongly we shouldn't be banning p
rotest because that's how we become active citizens right and by the way it's legitimate and right and proper for the people you're mentioning to hold politicians to account that's the joy with democracy right being held to account me did a long interview being ask challenging questions that's the joy of a democracy uh and that's how it should be and people should be angry about what's happening in haza you know we're in we've enter the last 10 days of Ramadan the last 10 nights of uh Ramadan it
also happens coincidentally to be you know Easter weekend that is Holy Land according to the Christians right and so people are right to be angry you can't wake up and watch those images and not either cry and weep or be angry and you know uh we got to call out our politicians you know but the idea that we have uh you know uh a more stringent test on labor when we're in opposition for the last 14 years that we doing the party of government I think is a bit naive and a bit wrong we are in a you
know we're months ahead of an election a general election and that that could put uh sir stama into the position of prime minister and and a lot of people are watching the things that he says publicly um the things that he says on Israel the things that he says on Gaza as indications of what kind of prime minister the NHS and education and jobs and the economy and growth and equalities laws and employment laws all those things as well yeah and there's also a separate conversation about individua
l MPS and individual electoral seats and some of the organizing that is happening is around individuals and and looking at you know seats and and so I mean one of the people you know r for example as somebody that that abstained from the vote against a ceasefire and there's there are British Muslims that say this is an something that means enough to me that I am willing to make let it decide who I vote for um come the general election it's hard to dismiss uh somebody when they tell that to you n
o of course you you must never dismiss what voters say and they are saying that people are I've met isn't of course we've all met people who are upset and angry and uh hurt I've lost count of the number of London I've met who've lost loved ones uh you know in that part of the world in the last six months it's heartbreaking um you know people have to decide if if if the election the general election is a referendum on how perfect or imperfect party was but you know there there are only two partie
s that can win the election the conservatives or labor and so you know all I'd say in a respectful way because of course I respect people's feelings and you know people are genuinely and rightly and that's a good thing that you're you got a heart upset about what's happening in uh haa but be careful what you wish for because it's happened before uh when you know people have allowed uh you know best to be the enemy of perfect and that will mean uh the conservatives are in power for another five y
ears and I think that'd be awful not just for the people in Gaza but awful for this country as well and across the globe where we know in the past labor governments have done a huge amount of good in you know in parts of Africa Subs Africa parts of the Middle East in the Balkans and so forth that's why it's you know important for people to realize we had 14 years of this right K St has not been the Prime Minister 14 years no labor politician has the last Labor prime minister there was was Gordon
Brown and look at the good that he did do you have faith in K St to lead effectively in foreign policy I do you do yeah and how do you think the this country should be positioning itself with regards to Israel well I think I think the the position of the labor governments in the past has been one where they're calling for a two-state solution they're quite clear in relation to there shouldn't be uh you know uh advantage taken of those in the West Bank or in hza uh you know it's really important
uh those who are you know occupying Palestinian land shouldn't occupy the land it's really important for it to be a viable Palestinian uh State it's really important to use all the levers the British government has at its disposal the British government is opponent member of the UN Security Council that that provides a huge amount of influence the Le government you know Gordon Brown's government the one that I was a member of did a huge amount towards a two-state solution but in the other day y
ou know we need the Americans to pull their way as well because they are the closest Ally to Israel and it's very important that the US government you know uh is influenced to do much more in this area because you know we know the importance of uh the US to Netanyahu that's why it's really important that you know those of our friends in United States uh you know use their influence to put pressure on there Al big elections is sh in America right there's big elections in India Indonesia this coun
try and America and you know half the world's population is voting this year yeah uh net would have been gone a long time ago but for what's happening in hza we're we're speaking a couple of weeks away from your own uh key election how confident do you feel about your chances so this is this is the toughest election that I fought um why do I say that because uh the government's changed the voting system to make it much harder for at me to win this time what they've done is they've done two thing
s which make it more difficult one is uh in the past what happened was people would vote for a smaller party first you could vote two votes one and a two then vote for a smaller party number one and vote for me number two like an insurance policy and the government realized I want a big amount of of of of the second preferences from the smaller part they've now removed that chance you only get one vote one cross and the second thing they've done is bought in photo ID 15% 15 15% of londoners who
are eligible to vote haven't got photo ID you're allowed to have a passport a driving license or an older person's travel card not a younger person's travel card why because younger people vote for me older people may not it's going to be really tough so don't think people say to me on the doorstep I've been out campaigning today oh you're definitely going to win you know what what you worried about don't be complacent don't think oh s is definitely going to win he doesn't need my support number
one number two this is a two horse race only one of us is going to be the mayor the Conservative candidate you've mentioned about about her or me and that's why I'm asking people who live in London to give me their vote on May the 2nd remember you got a photo ID to to vote don't go to the poing station and be turned away because of lack of voter ID but it's you know it's going to be tough uh uh I'm under no Illusions uh you know I've worked incredibly hard over the last eight years I'm going to
carry on working up until 10 p.m. on May the 2nd to try and remind londoners of what we've achieved over the last eight years uh you will know uh my stance in relation to uh what's happened since October the the 7th you know it's really important people to understand that you know uh the choic is you know a a future London that's you know fairer safer and Greener or it's going backwards with the conservatives and finally uh what is your vision for a future London what is your vision for your th
ird term well I just we're having this conversation people may not realize this but you know we've had a number of uh different events taking place just in the last few days and weeks in London we uh we had Holly the Hindu communi celebrated we've had Easter uh you know this this weekend uh next week is vaki the SE Community celebrates we're in the month of Ramadan very soon we're going to have St George's day really important to uh the uh English just a few weeks ago I celebrated St Patrick's D
ay with my Irish uh friends that's the joy of London how diversity is a strength not a weakness at the same time uh if I'm reelected I have the opportunity to build many tens of thousands more homes as it is we' BU more Council homes than any timeson 1970s we can do much more with the labor government 40,000 Council homes and many more with the labor government more investment in youth clubs more investment in the police keeping fairs down importantly investing in young people so they can flouri
sh and Thrive which is really really important and you know the key thing for me is this we'll have the chance for the first time you know in eight years since I've been there but the first time since 2004 to have a labor government and a labor May working together and that is so exciting because we can bring about real meaningful change a fairer safer green of London s KH it's been an absolute pleasure it's been a pleasure thank you for being with [Music] us thank you for watching this episode
of the big picture and a big thank you to Mayor sadic Khan for being our guest today we want to hear your thoughts so please leave them in the comments below and let us know who you'd like us to speak to next as always you can listen to this episode wherever you get your podcast from and until next time Salam [Music]
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