approach but this also applies to who you work with right you as a brand should know like and Trust the creators that you're working with to facilitate the best partnership possible [Music] excited just thrilled to be here today on a beautiful day in New York City also along with the folks joining on the live stream let's just kind of like jump in and start talking you know shop here what's going on in the industry I just wanted to kind of kick off and just talk about what we've been up to over
the last number of years I really feel that impact.com we've been on a journey to Define Partnerships and it kind of makes me think back to when we first had to explain what a partnership even was to a business and you fast forward to today and Partnerships are everywhere and they've become invaluable to the modern buyers journey and this journey it's no longer unilateral right or built on trusting what a brand says about themselves the modern buyer requires social validation they require recomm
endations before they even consider buying a product people respond well to a klt strategy stands for know like and trust and it means that people are more likely to buy something if they truly know like and trust someone who recommends it in fact 89 of people trust recommendations over any other channel and as people are spending more and more time online these recommendations are coming from familiar online faces that they feel they know and all of us in this room believe in Partnerships we un
derstand their value but how can we make the most of this channel as we look ahead there's at least you know three top trends that we should all be investing in this year right now make it easy we can think of them as the three C's or the secrets for this year for the partnership economy and note that we may be the only keynote this year that isn't including gen AI is in their top list for uh top trends for this year but the fact is it is being woven into every aspect of product experiences oper
ations within businesses for many companies including impact.com and Max our chief product officer will be covering that during his session here in just a little bit so hang tight for that so for this first Trend I want to call out this year you may have guessed it is creators right whoops did I skip one there's craters the influencer or Crater industry it certainly isn't new but I think that the explosive growth has just really made it impossible to ignore it I think we're off there we go you f
ix it I appreciate it uh and so you know put this in perspective take a look at last year influencer marketing was a 16.4 billion USD industry you take a look now it's projected over the next uh six years to reach 84 billion USD by 2028 that's a 5x increase in six years in a survey by Advertiser perceptions more than half of brand respondents said that they plan to increase their influencer marketing budgets this year and what they're doing is they're pulling from other traditional channels they
're pulling from their TV ads prints and out of home and so the fact is money is following the customer and a whopping 84 percent of Shoppers have made a purchase based on a Creator's recommendation the Brilliance of partnering with creators be it tick talkers YouTubers podcasters other social media influencers is the fact that they're seamlessly integrating themselves into your daily life you may have heard me say before that people go online for just three things they're looking for entertainm
ent they're looking for information and they're looking for connections with other people and with Creator content the beauty of it is that these three desires have actually been combined so when watching a tick tock video for example you can simultaneously feel entertained by the content you can feel informed about the products and the services that you're discovering and crucially feel connected to someone who you trust and enjoy following as well as within the community of comments that you c
an experience on these platforms it's a great example of what it feels like to experience a klt strategy because you're receiving product recommendations from people who you know like and Trust so it's no secret that brands should be establishing Partnerships with creators in order to stay both relevant to how people are making buying decisions today but also to reach their business growth goals but how my first suggestion is to stop thinking about creators as just purely top of funnel partners
that are driving Impressions and brand awareness believe it or not 30 percent of marketers do not measure Roi from their influencer marketing campaigns meaning they are not accurately capturing the influence that certain creators have on sales and so therefore they can't motivate them to keep going it is critical to determine the incremental value of a Creator so you can identify points of value along the full funnel especially considering that creators typically play a stronger role in the uppe
r funnel events and then you need the insights and the flexibility to contract dynamically with your creators to encourage these long-term relationships and sustainable business value on both sides of the table what I'm challenging you to do is embrace the convergence of traditional affiliate marketing with Creator Partnerships and how you can balance a performance strategy with your creator relationships and this convergence for a lot of us requires us to think about this partnership type diffe
rently if you're coming from traditional affiliate background I'm looking at paresh over there we have stopped you know you know trying to jam a square peg I'm not calling you out specifically on this you just you're someone's been an affiliate for a long time we can't keep jamming a square peg into a round hole right and leading with a performance only contract right the fact is creators are putting in a lot of upfront time and production work to create their Commerce content and they're not go
ing to be fully motivated to do this effectively by operating solely on a performance-based contract at least at the start of the relationship on the other hand for those who have been primarily working with creators for the past few years it's also very limiting to confine them to just a fixed fee payment model that is typically short term in nature so especially when considering that this content can exist for years out there and still add value especially on longer form platforms like YouTube
what's recommended is that you utilize a post plus compensation model where you pay creators a flat fee to post content initially and then you can combine that with a performance-based contract over a longer period of time and speaking with Maddie B Webb she's a tick tock creator with millions of followers she explained that this type of compensation allows her to be a marketer creating brand awareness but also as a salesperson ultimately driving sales and she's certainly not alone there's 82 p
ercent of the creators that we surveyed with adweek they agreed with this post plus model these long-term Partnerships are you know better perceived by the audience because they see their favorite Creator talking about a product consistently instead of a a single time-based campaign or a one and done transactional post that they might do so my second suggestion is to consider how you can make the most of your creator Partnerships think about it this way if you as a brand were to create High Fide
lity marketing assets uh kind of like a product video it's going to typically be very time consuming and expensive well when you partner with a Creator you're like they're actually producing these high quality assets for you right so if you already have this fantastic content you should absolutely think about how to repurpose it in your other marketing channel so you can diversify your strategy and really utilize your partnership assets here the best way to do this is to license your creator con
tent and agree on a set of terms here at the start of the relationship so you can leverage these assets across your paid ads your website your customer marketing and more this ugc or user generated content it can go a long way in aiding your your other marketing goals essentially so there's a lot of Brands who are doing this they're seeing a high success rate by 87 percent of brands are using ugc and 72 of them so the majority say that it boosts engagement so going into your creative Partnership
s with this efficient mindset will help you down the line as always I recommend forming direct relationships and direct contracts with your partners which will drive the most Innovation and value in the partnership for both sides right this is opposed to going through networks or just buying ads through the social media platforms networks especially are only leasing access to creators and Publishers with very limited visibility about exactly what they're doing so don't put a middle person betwee
n you and the Creator go straight to your partners and build deeper relationships with them and no we've been talking a lot about a klt approach but this also applies to who you work with right you as a brand should know like and Trust the creators that you're working with to facilitate the best partnership possible right after all these guys are humanizing Commerce in an increasingly digital world and they're doing so on your behalf and this is what makes the Partnerships Channel Unique right n
ot as popular performance pricing model all right the second secret or Trend that we're experiencing in that partnership economy this year is Commerce content what is it exactly Commerce content by definition is publisher produced editorial content about a brand product or service and these pieces of content can take the form of product reviews roundups listicles uh that sort of thing and increasingly these Publishers are monetizing not through ads they're monetizing through traditional affiliat
e links this partnership type is crucial to implement a 9 out of 10 people are reading reviews before making a purchase and the interesting thing about Commerce content is the way that it's evolved over the years the first known magazine ad in the US was published in 1741 with Benjamin Franklin's General magazine it just blows my mind that this was 300 years ago so for the last 300 years Publishers have been primarily monetizing their content with ads that they've inserted in Pages between their
content right and you look now popular content itself is commercial in nature right and it's including seamlessly integrated affiliate links and this is the results of the direct Partnerships that these Commerce content Publishers have with the brands that they're writing about and it's become a critical monetization strategy for these Publishers these next two quotes really sum up the Paradigm ship that's happened recently in the publishing interest industry so Emily Jackson VP of e-commerce a
t Forbes said the Commerce business at Forbes is one of the fastest growing consumer Revenue business lines and it continues to be a pretty big area of investment for the company Chris Lloyd VPN GM of review they're part of the USA Today Network says for us Commerce content is increasingly important and so much so that we went ad-free on January 1st and Chris is going to be up on stage here later today and he's going to talk a little bit more about that it's a huge inflection point in terms of h
ow people are in are engaging with Commerce content and how Publishers are both publishing and monetizing this content we've watched this partnership type steadily tick upwards and so last year we interviewed a variety of Brands to understand how they benefit from Commerce content ninety percent of Brands experienced increased brand awareness 81 experienced increased revenue and 65 percent experienced increased customer acquisition so how can you as a brand form an effective Commerce content par
tnership and reap these kinds of benefits there's a few crucial pieces to consider here first find the Publishers that Target your audience in particular right ideally you want your Target customer to discover this content a bit organically all right second create a strong pitch for your product or Services right you want to approach Publishers with us right this is your chance to kind of share your brand differentiators relevant Trend data audience overlap and of course compensation and then fi
nally pitch to Publishers at the right time right consider the seasonality of your product as well as the seasonal priorities of the publisher to cover it now versus later the timing of your Commerce content pieces with these events is going to make the publisher Partners a little bit more motivated to promote you and it's also going to improve your conversion rates Nila Alish is a former EVP of Commerce at BuzzFeed she told me during a podcast interview that you should talk about the timing of
when Publishers write about things that no it doesn't necessarily mean never it may just mean not now so when you think about it's really not too different from a PR motion where your goal is to get the media excited about your business without trying to completely dictate their entire like opinions and quotes and timing an example of a brand who does this really well is Apollo neuro they're a wearable stress relief device company they utilize Commerce content to provide for further education ab
out their product and so here we're showing you Hearst magazines Prevention magazine you know in terms of them pursuing them it's a publication that just makes sense it's a publication focus on health wellness fitness and they know that long-form reviews really help to explain the science behind their company their benefits their differentiators way better than an ad ever could so Ian from Apollo neuros could be on stage with me next and he's going to talk a little bit more about that all right
so the third and the final secret is control or rather realizing and embracing the fact that you as a brand are no longer in control the customer is right at the end of the day know about tips or tricks are going to work unless you think and act Through The Eyes of a modern buyer they are technologically savvy they're typically utilizing multiple forms of social media browsing sites apps and they are have gotten really used to consuming massive amounts of commercial information on a daily basis
and you know it used to be that Brands would relative you know keep people relatively you know captive with you know how people found out about the brands or about their products and controlling you know all that but today like the Genies out of the bottle right people know that you know they're first of all they're demanding and they're finding information they're just kind of going after it and um you know they're finding out about information about you from other people and so if you as a bra
nd want to cut through and relate to buyers in the way that they want to discover how they want to learn how they want to communicate about products you've got to let go and you've got to get out of this traditional advertising mindset and listen to your partners realize that your partners have successfully built Their audience for a reason because they're good at reaching the modern buyer so if you try too hard to dictate their content their messaging it will come across as a trust untrustworth
y and disingenuous ad which nobody wants to be associated with anymore again what makes the partnership Channel Unique is not the popular performance pricing model it's the fact that you're trusting another person or another business to use their expertise their connection with the customer to recommend you this is what it's all about and I say this re realizing that it requires Brands to step up today and operate at a higher level of quality and service but that is the new requirement commercia
l content is just now accessible anywhere and everywhere and as a brand you need to inspire and you know inform this content as much as possible through your partnership program also your partners are experts at competing in an increasingly algorithm-based world next time you're on a social media app I encourage you to pay attention to how many posts are from people who you don't actually follow Instagram's been pushing the suggested content since uh at the end of 2020 other platforms like Tech
talk have basically their entire Foundation is based on an algorithm generated for you page right this is important to call out because creators can no longer just take any type of content that you're dictating and have their followers see it now they've got to work extra hard to create high quality content and authentic content that's going to cut through this algorithm controlled model so when you come in and you try and micromanage their work and and show how they talk about you you risk Thei
r audience engagement as well as your brand Impressions and your conversions like in the same way that you wouldn't invite a famous chef over to your house and then dictate the ingredients and tell them how to cook your dinner should be doing this to your brand Partners either sure you'd you tell them your um you know dietary preferences any severe allergies that you've got kind of like you give brand guidelines to a publisher or Creator but you'd let them cook the meal and the way that that the
y know how because yeah that's why you like them in the first place right and if you can adapt this new way of thinking you're going to set yourself up for Partnerships and get people to truly know like and trust your brand I hope you feel as excited as I do about the potential for new growth opportunities like this and more in the partnership economy there's so much to take advantage of in this channel now more than ever and I'm confident if you Embrace these Trends you're going to drive growth
for your business and I especially see real proof of this with newer companies who have built their brands through Partnerships with creators podcasters Publishers traditional rewards Affiliates even with other businesses and a lot of these newer companies actually start with Partnerships and then then they invest in other channels such as advertising only after they've established their online presence through Partnerships these Brands realize that there's no sense wasting these you know aware
ness ad dollars when the very next step of the modern buyer is to get online and see what other people have to say about them and the worst scenario is when those ads Drive demand for a new product only to lose the sale to a competitor who has a more effective partnership strategy deployed it's a real risk as we all know there is a massive amount of commercial information that's available to the buyer today especially compared to just a few years ago so for those of us who been in this in this i
ndustry for a long time the shift in mindset is pivotal for Partnerships it's another sign of the new economy that we're in and this leads me to welcoming Ian mcglumpy to the stage Ian's an expert in all things Partners excuse me it all takes Partnerships and Apollo neuro his company is a great example of someone who's utilized as partner first and partner-led strategy so welcome to the stage Ian [Applause] foreign [Applause] welcome all right I thought we could set the stage maybe and um you kn
ow just tell people a little bit about Apollo neuro yeah absolutely uh so I'll do a little product placement while I'm doing it as well so Apollo neuro is a wellness wearable that focuses on stress relief and improving the body's resilience to stress which you're actually going to see in direct improvements of say your sleep your focus and your overall well-being so uh the device itself works by sending soothing gentle vibrations through this pod your body interprets has a sense of touch so thin
k about how imperative touches to make you feel safe grounded and in control what we're seeing at the autonomic nervous system level is engagement with your parasympathetic which is your rest and digest you get those same similar benefits to you doing almost a mindful practice like say meditation or deep breathing or yoga so we're passively giving you the benefits of say a mindful practice throughout your day just by wearing this device the device was originally developed out of the University o
f Pittsburgh medical community our co-founder and CIO who is the co-inventor as well is a board certified psychiatrist and neuroscientists so we're seeped in science and was originally developed for treatment resistant PTSD patients so that's an audience who's always in this fight or flight response needing to get into their rest and digest to kind of have breakthroughs and focus and sleep and things along those lines as well we launched February of 2020 which was a interesting time obviously pr
e-pandemic just to uh to launch a stress relief wearable so you know just around three years now and we just exceeded 100 000 users as of last month wow that's incredible yeah fascinating technology and I think I shared with you when you and I first met that my wife is a bit of a biohacker and um you know she's been wearing this device around her ankle and I never knew what it was until I met you I just jokingly around the house called it her house arrest tracker of course and then Ian kind of c
aught me up on what this thing was and so you know along those lines um you know there's a number of wearable companies out there I think a Fitbit Apple watch whoop how do you compare you find yourself in that same category how do you differentiate so most start out thinking that we're kind of in this kind of which we are in this kind of wearable bubble the wearable space is mostly kind of dominated and saturated by these biometric trackers so again Aura Apple watch Fitbit whoop we are actually
not a Tracker there's no sensors on the underside of this device so I lovingly refer to Apollo as intervention technology or like wearable 3.0 because what we're going to be doing is actually improving the Biometrics Red by these trackers so interestingly enough as you know in in all the marketing Minds in this room can kind of see where I'm going with this what we're starting to do is actually follow the roads made by these trackers and then we jump in and say oh we actually can intervene and a
ctually improve the Biometrics read by these uh types of devices as well so we're actually not a competitor to them they're a compliment because they prove the efficacy of Apollo you're going to see better sleep scores with your aura ring your Apple watch using this device or you're going to see better resting heart rates and things along those lines or improvements in your heart rate variability which again are key Biometrics for this resilience us okay so I think apollonaro is at three years o
ld is it that's right yep 2020. new new product new brand coming into you know you know kind of I wouldn't say a saturated Market but there's other companies right with wearables something related to what you're doing at least very uh difficult message to get across a lot of science behind it relatively a new subcategory almost within wearables uh is is that I mean I can imagine like trying to get that message out with a TV ad or a display ad might be difficult right is that where you know the t
he the the the concept of starting with with Partners absolutely and you kind of touched on it in your previous Point too what we were trying to do is actually find validation that was outside of marketing Apollo's own marketing channels to kind of help us with brand awareness around our launch um and what we actually chose was specifically looking at highly Niche audiences who might already be receptive to a technology like ours so again I was kind of following that those paths made by The Trac
kers I found that the biohacking community you know obviously your wife being one of them as well um they are very very um receptive to anything that gets them to the next stages of human optimization um be those technology in terms of emerging Tech like our own or and again I I refer to the lovingly generally but it's the idea here is that these are people who are willing to do anything to get this optimization they're eating raw cow organs they're stunning weird parts of their body they're kin
d of really interested in the next wave of human Optimum organization so they kind of cut at any cost so they won't cut any cost to get there so I was going to these spaces that we knew had um you know already been very you know religious with their usage of a biometric tracker and we were kind of inserting ourselves in those spaces so one example is uh Ben Greenfield who owns a or runs a large podcast and kind of a media company as well and what we were doing is actually having our co-founder D
r David Rabin who I'd mentioned again board certified psychiatrists neuroscientist so he can really talk the talk and he can also really help explain the device on these types of podcasts so our launch was getting him onto these podcasts and then we would actually uh almost that would kind of be our foot in or the Trojan Horse in for us to then create an affiliate relationship with these podcasters so we would have Dr Dave on the show he would help explain the technology introduce it to them and
then we would actually kind of spearhead it with the idea of well let's make this an affiliate relationship let's tag on promo codes onto this exact episode where we're talking about Apollo where you're going to get incentivized and compensated and then we we also found ourselves doing you know a tackle on other programmatic after that with say newsletter buys or blog pieces and things along those lines with those types of groups who then kind of become a media house and then we kind of just cr
eate a lost a lasting relationship with them overall and continue to go back time and time again so you know you mentioned that you're at 100 100 million a hundred thousand hundred thousand we'll get there yeah so still still maybe in so still maybe in the early adopter phase potentially so I would say especially with with um you know that phase of a company's Evolution you know keying in on like people like Ben griefel be like my wife listen to him like he's someone that you know you know she k
nows she likes she trust so if he's out there talking about it she's probably going to try it exactly yeah and that was kind of the mentality for us too um and I would say ultimately from that side we kind of create some great Everlasting relationships with these groups too because they again they were kind of uh invested in us in a way at the launch and they kind of have this you know long formal relationship with us it's a little bit deeper than most so we kind of get a chance to kind of go ba
ck to them and kind of test content and I think another thing that I wanted to mention too is that we also invested a lot in these type of long-form review I would call them like mid-tier Partners who are willing to kind of do pages and pages of reviews of things um we kind of bet on them like horses if you will at the very beginning thinking that they were going to kind of help take over some of the SEO gameplay for us because you know that us specifically were a device and we're a technology t
hat takes a long time for a consumer to to Really buy into and want to purchase the customer journey is is not a short one at all so what we really wanted to do was kind of maybe kind of create a web or create a net for them to kind of find their way of Apollo on non-apollo domains because again they're researching the device they're looking at reviews they're looking for kind of other forms of technology and other forms of research as well so it really kind of played hand in hand in that space
yeah let's say you know we talked a little bit about this like I think people at the end of the day just want you talk about um information that's not on Apollo's site right I think at the end of the day people just want somebody to shoot them straight no BS tell me what the real deal is especially on a new device like this um you know but aside from social validation just any other benefits that you can point to with a partner-led oh yeah absolutely so I would say the partner space is very ripe
for testing new messaging um it's actually a place that I would test new messaging before I'm doing it in other type of marketing channels as well so a really good partner of ours that we've worked with um uh is CNN underscored again on more of obviously a larger premium publisher type of style of range here but we've had an ongoing kind of almost a quarterly relationship with them and we are constantly testing new messaging with them to see what resonates most because their audience base is mu
ch different than this biohacking community and they're actually a little bit more into the general public so we're able to kind of see what is this most sticky type of message for us and then we can take that back over to say our landing page our cro our SEO efforts and even our paid social and things along those lines so we're kind of using these Partnerships as the first wave of testing new ideas um and then really kind of um being able to kind of position in that and feed other channels with
that information So speaking of other channels I talked a little bit in my opening remarks about you know not wasting money on awareness dollars when you know the first thing people are going to do is like get online and start oh yeah you know trying to hear from other people about you so could you maybe share a little bit about your your your total kind of program mix I mean I have to imagine there's a concert effect a surround sound of how you're looking to acquire absolutely and I mean I mea
n all of us kind of will understand this um kind of phrase that I've kind of constantly say but I mean Partnerships is an umbrella term right like we kind of lump in our style of newsletter Partners podcasts Affiliates uh these review sites these premium Publishers even content creators in the influencer space as well they're all Partnerships and once again you're kind of getting a real chance to kind of test it for messaging across all of those different forums and you're also you know Apollo r
eally lends itself to it so I'm a little bit Lucky in that regard that we can speak to the benefits of Apollo for sleep so we'll go full in on that we'll go to the mattress the mattress and the Sleep review sites with listicles and whatnot too you and then we'll also be able to speak to the biohacking community who are more interested in the benefits of Apollo for physical performance and recovery so we kind of I'm kind of lucky to have this palette to kind of test all these different styles of
verticals but also what I'm trying to do is is create this this web when you're looking for Apollo neuro reviews that at least one of those are going to associate the need of what you're looking for to make the purchase so again you're you know you're looking up the reviews on uh on Google or whatnot or any search engine and I want there to be at least one or three reviews that are going to speak specifically to you and kind of create that stickiness for you to kind of again move along that cust
omer Journey because once again we know that this is a high-end device it retails for 349. so a lot of kind of interest level uh reading about the research and technology and stuff like that is kind of typical from all of our customers so it's a pretty diverse partner mix and that's great to hear but it really does beg the question on like how do you compensate some of those different types of Partners sure also curious and in the same same vein like how you think about attribution yeah absolute
ly um so I would say there's a variety in the way that we compensate um the way I kind of explained it in the very up front of some of those podcasters that we first worked with with launch we found ourselves mostly setting them up as Affiliates and then doing hybrid deals with them after so I'm doing a little bit of a flat fee for obviously for them to kind of place into a newsletter but then they're also constantly getting continuously incentivized by the CPA those specific type of styles uh r
eally drove them specifically if it's something that is Evergreen so again these podcasts they're living for forever people are kind of finding their way back to them so that kind of ongoing CPA incentivization is something that they really enjoy but they're also looking to kind of be compensated on The Upfront for say you know newsletter placements again or say additional content across you know gift guides and whatnot so we find ourselves doing predominantly hybrid style modeling with a lot of
these groups and I would say in the space of attribution um every every partner deserves a piece of of what they're actually kind of uh uh responsible for in this space and attribution is obviously you know something that we've all I'm sure had uh in-depth conversations with many people about um and interestingly enough I love using the impact platform not just for my Affiliates but for all of my partners even non-affiliate Partners I'm throwing them on there for zero percent CPA because of the
contribution modeling that you guys have the the introductory you know the influence and the close there's something really uh to be said in that space because again you're missing some of that in some of your GA analytics and you know don't get me started on meta so there's a whole different like world out there now where we're actually trying to use you know find more of a source of Truth in this world of attribution which is more and more difficult by the day I mean you guys all know that to
o um and one other tactic that we've been introducing as well is doing lift tests so I'll turn channels on and off and I will be able to at least give them little bit of an idea as to what's really driving because again we all look in the ga and direct organic is you know massive and we're trying to figure out well you know is this kind of on the side of say my podcast that I've been placing is the newsletters because again there's a lot of different activities that a lot of consumers are doing
now too that you know they're blocking trackers they're blocking things along those lines as well but ultimately I would find that you know that's a really interesting space for us to play in in these lift tests and then lastly one of the things that we've been implementing a lot of is post purchase surveying so you know how did you hear about us after the close um a really interesting one I think I mentioned this to you too Dave was that podcasts seem to be the most memorable thing that drives
a lot of our consumers purchases but it is not being well attributed in one of our channels so it leaves you kind of the the question of you know maybe that was the introduction and that was the most the most memorable part of the journey for the customer but again they're not necessarily getting the credit that maybe it's deserving there yeah that is the challenge of the attribution it's not a perfect science right yeah it's looking at the blend of everything but it's good to have the data and
you know keep keep iterating keep evolving so I think your the way you talk about your compensation model being a hybrid I think that's a good example of what I talked about in terms of a post plus exactly kind of in the same category and then I also talked about going direct to your partnership I know you're a big fan of that and I noticed that part of your title is events which you don't typically see um can you talk a little bit about how you Source new partners how you absolutely engage them
how you motivate them how do you work with them yeah so well first and foremost um we're a tech startup so everyone wears every hat in the room um at my company so events also just kind of goes under in times of my my background as well but the place of events and the the merging of the two type of spaces I think complementing each other really well um you know speaking to the idea here where we're actually using events to find new partners and also deepen relationships with existing ones so ag
ain as I mentioned we're we're in a space that is very Niche and nuanced so we actually go to Niche and nuanced events as well so I find myself at a lot of biohacking conferences um more recently we've actually been dabbling into the space of psychedelic assisted therapy and going to conferences in that space too so again we're actually kind of opening ourselves up for Partnerships at each of these events because we're already kind of doing a targeting angle on them as well um so again the event
space Not only really helps you kind of deepen relationships but it also humanizes it I mean that's another reason why we're all here as well there's an opportunity for us to connect at a personal level where I feel like you know again digital age and obviously pandemic playing into the the space as well with the idea that some of the spaces become cold and sterile and I feel like doing the one-to-one um having human contact and being able to really kind of relate to people on a one-to-one basi
s makes it much more memorable when working with each other moving forward as well all right very good so I know we're coming up on time here but I wanted to maybe end with reflecting on something that came up during our partnership economy podcast episode where you talked about um you know kind of trusting your partners I I was reflecting on my open remarks about letting go trust your partners these guys are having to compete in this algorithm control old model like let them let them you know c
onnect with audiences in their unique way can you maybe share a little bit about your perspective absolutely and I knew it was the phrase that you loved the most was um I know for a fact that most of my partners are smarter than me um I have learned more from most of my partners than I've been able to teach myself um and and it's the same idea too with uh you were mentioning before Dave Ware you have to kind of let it go over the range these these partners that have platforms for a reason you kn
ow Their audience engages with them um at a very very I mean I would say sometimes at a very intimate level so you have to let them do their own spin you give them talking points you give them ideas you give them you know some sort of barriers but you have to really let them uh you know take the ball and run and you have to trust them and I would say my top 10 to 20 Partners I'm talking to them constantly I'm asking them questions I'm they're giving me insights I mean they've taught me more abou
t SEO than I've been able to even you know understand you know at very basic levels already but um but yeah ultimately there the the partners are are much smarter you need to give them the credit that's that's owed because I feel like in the past we've been so formulaic in trying to have them read off scripts and we know more than anything that the consumers are are wising up to that as well so we we really need to kind of give them the opportunity to um you know like I said take the ball and ru
n because the more and more you give them the trust the more that's reciprocated and again you kind of create a more deepen and more memorable relationship with them as well awesome inspiration and I appreciate you sharing your your experience with all of us learn to love me again Dave very good let's hear it for Ian guys [Applause] [Music] [Applause]
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