The Aztec 1948 UFO Crash | NOT A HOAX! | The "Other" Roswell | 16 Aliens Bodies | UFOTV

[Music] [Music] this is the small town of Aztec New Mexico located about 2 and 1/2 hours Northwest of Albuquerque depending upon how fast you drive along the often deserted highway it's close to the four corners area that Geographic Landmark where the states of Utah Arizona Colorado and New Mexico intersect one another like most places it has a story to tell with Aztec however that story goes far beyond the norm you might even say that the Aztec story is truly out of this [Music] world these day

s if you told a friend that you were off to New Mexico to visit the site of an alleged Flying Saucer crash that friend would probably assume you were headed to Roswell for the past three decades or so this has been a pretty safe assumption as the Roswell incident has become an integral part of American pop culture but travel back in time to the late 1940s and early 1950s and your friend would have assumed that you had a different destination in mind because long before Roswell became the most fa

mous UFO incident there was Aztec the first of the crashed Flying Saucer Stories the gist of the Aztec tale is that in 1948 uh flying Source are complete with anywhere from 14 to 18 bodies crashed in Aztec New Mexico and recovered under cover of high secrecy by the US military and in various formats and permutations the Tal's been circulated for the last 50 years some people can consider it to be an outright hoax some people are sitting on the fence other people consider it to be genuine some pe

ople consider it maybe it's a genuine incident but it occurred somewhere else the timeline of Aztec uh would be a report from the oil field workers a little after 5:00 a.m. on March 25th 1948 uh basically the first report came in as a large brush fire on a Mesa off of heartt Canyon Road as the oil field workers got out there they discovered a large disc approximately 100 ft in diameter sitting on top of a Mason that had nothing to do with the brush fire but because of the oil drip tanks out ther

e at that time people from El Paso Oil Company were notified that they should get out there to investigate the fire and any sub subsequent danger it could pose upon getting out there they noticed a large disc on the Mesa military showed up later that day uh late lunchtime early afternoon the uh one local law enforcement officer had warned the locals that the military would be there eventually that they had been notified Aztec is a is a fascinating case because it was the original if you will cra

sh Flying Saucer story and it surfaced first in 1949 in in columns written by Frank Scully in in the daily variety It ultimately led to a best-selling book that Scully wrote and uh I think it sold something on the order of 60,000 copies in 1950 in hard cover and then went on to 12 additions overseas and on and on and on I mean it was remarkable how successful it was it's obvious he struck some kind of real Court it was also total nonsense and and Scully was either a one of these fellows who knew

enough knew enough not to ask uh questions he didn't want to hear the answers to or he was genuinely duped uh by a fellow named Silas Newton in a sidekick of his named Leo gabauer who became known as Dr G in scully's book in Frank scully's book behind the flying saucers which came out in 1950 he tells the Aztec story As Told by to him by Silas Newton and Leo gauer silus Newton and Leo gbow then introduced Frank Scully to at least eight scientists that allegedly worked on the Aztec crash Frank s

carly took these eight people and molded them into one Dr G the Skeptics like to attack the story if they haven't researched it and say that Dr G was Leo Gau Leo Gau was no more a scientist than anybody he was an electrical engineer that worked with Silas Newton uh more of a glorified electrician more than electrical engineer Frank Scully in his book plainly states stes that Dr G is up to eight scientists that worked on the recovered UFO at Aztec essentially these two guys were conmen who uh wer

e in the process of trying to Pedal a Doodle Bug which is a an oil and gas industry tag for a device that will find oil and gas but of course doesn't uh and in his case it was a machine that not only found oil and gas but gold and water and pretty much anything the uh Mark was interested in finding and uh on top of that gabauer had invented something similar which also supposedly could assess the health of a person so this was sort of an all-in-one Do-it all kind of thing but what they did which

was unusual uh and made their little bit unique uh in was that they they claimed that their Doodle Bug was better than anybody else's because it was using technology that had been taken from the Flying Saucer that allegedly crashed near Aztec and therefore obviously it was far superior uh Dr G our friend gabauer was supposedly a magnetics expert who was one of those called in by the Air Force when the saucer was tracked in into ground near Aztec uh where it floated to ground not actually crashe

d and um presumably disabled by a high-powered radar somewhere nearby that was such was the claim anyhow the whole thing was a total Conant and uh it was quickly recognized as such and and then really exposed in detail in 1952 by uh JP KH who was an investigative reporter I think he was with the San Francisco Examiner if I'm not mistaken and um he did a four five Monon investigation in detail including uh man managing to con the con man out of a an example or a sample of the mysterious metal tha

t the saucer was made out of turned out to be the sort of stuff that you made pots and pans out of actually but you know he was a very very very sharp reporter who did a really good job and uh true magazine published his article in 1952 Expos in these guys and this led to the district attorney in um in Denver Colorado Prosecuting Newton and gabauer uh for fraud and various other sorts of associated charges anyway they were convicted in December of 1952 and uh basically the whole notion of Crash

flying saucers uh went away and people who take flying saucers UFOs seriously for decades wouldn't touch anything like that with a 10 foot poll until Roswell came along I think where some of the Skeptics attack uh the the Aztec story is why would one two or up to eight scientists uh confide with Frank Skully and that's an important question but you have to look at who Frank Skelly was back then you have to look at how the media operated back then we didn't have CNN we didn't have national networ

k TV uh you had a very tight group of journalists the Dorothy kill gallons the Walder winchill the Frank skullies that uh quite frankly were the most credible people of their their day in journalism and that would probably be an automatic person that you would go to to break a story like that the other thing if you read Frank scully's writings the scientists that approached him did not think that was going to be a secret for a long time they thought that story would break within a year they were

giving Frank Scully a little Advance on the Aztec incident apprach the first UFO related documentary I made was a biography of legendary Roswell investigator Stanton T fredman if the Aztec incident has a fredman that is to say someone with respected professional credentials who has chosen to undertake a search for the truth about the UFO phenomenon it is this man Scott Ramsey a successful businessman from North Carolina Frank Scully might have broken the Aztec story but it is Ramsey who has res

cued the tale from obscurity and who has challenged after years of research the long held view that the whole thing was simply a hoax in looking at the story that was one thing that intrigued me was looking at the claims made back in 1950 by these eight scientists and one was the secret radar bases so as we started to look into the claims that Dr G was telling Frank Scully and we compare to what we know now when you go back 50 some years later and look at we what we've been able to get Declassif

ied from the Air Force the atomic energy commission somebody back then was definitely in the loop leaking good information to Frank Scully it took us over you know 50 years now of getting records Declassified to back up the claims that they were making in 1950 one was the infamous radar bases the top secret radar bases that were located in New Mexico we went out searching for them in 1999 using topographic maps on if we were to put a radar base in New Mexico where would we put it based on height

Direction location and uh out of dumb luck quite frankly we found the first one near alado which is about uh I guess Air Miles probably 40 or 50 miles north of Los Alamos we want went to the air force uh Maxwell Air Force Base down in uh mountgomery Alabama and asked for the records on these at the same time the state of New Mexico was doing a historical research on anything that had anything to do with the Cold War so this became a perfect fit we went down to kind of a dual purpose they releas

ed the records but we had a problem the Air Force bases under the or the air radar bases under the Air Force didn't exist till 19 1950 well we couldn't tie that to Aztec because Aztec of course was 1948 looking at the records in great detail we saw things like the first quarterly report for their Capital expenditures they needed a roof they needed a water heater they needed some improvements in electrical work uh mainly some Transformers and we asked oursel a question if this base was just built

why would they be needing to requisite position a water heater a new roof on a building and new Transformers so we went back and we did some digging and turned out that the radar bases were built in 1946 which we have all the historical information on those the Air Force did acquire the bases from 1950 to 1957 but the atomic energy commission requisition those air the radar bases from 1946 till they turned them over to the Air Force in 195 50 there were three we had Continental Divide which is

out near Gallop elvado which is near cha Tia Amaria area and mor arti which is due east of Albuquerque that put up a perfect triangle around Kirkland Air Force Base sandan National Labs and Los Alamos which was the main purpose of those radar bases was to protect those atomic energy commission installations Ramsey who has done a tremendous tremendous amount of research on on Aztec he found these places you know the if you look at the history of the Air Defense command and the setup of the lashup

radar system which was the beginning of our whole Continental Air Defense radar system and all of that there were no Air Defense command Radars at those sites at the time of the alleged crash saucer incident but he found out that there were Radars there and they were under the control of the atomic energy commission they had something whatever something to do with some sort of vague feeble attempt to to provide for defense against air attack at Los Alamos the National Lab the bomb lab um as far

as the rest of New Mexico is concerned there just weren't any such Radars you know they had them at White Sands they had Radars at White Sands for tracking the captured V2s that they were launching down there and other things of that sort but those were again these were World War II retreads essentially there was nothing exotic what kind of people did they have serving here if you because it looks like a short straw kind of gig for me yeah yeah that's what I thought when I first saw it I my God

you really had to do something something wrong to get here but boy you look at the reports these guys were the cream of the [Music] crow you the three uh three bases they really they had some pretty pretty impressive resumes let's put it that way we looked into the type of radar that they were using at these three installations especially alada had a very very powerful radar it was an experimental radar for the US Navy it was a high microwave which all Radars are they all work on some form of s

ignal microwave this one was extremely powerful and we even have the manuals telling the operators the dos and don'ts if aircraft were in the area keeping in mind that was a restricted airspace back in those days this is the old uh Power Generation building they had uh five diesel generators in here they would they would pump the uh kerosene the diesel fuel in here through the pump station the pump house right there and uh this was backup these radar units took a lot of a lot of electricity to r

un and these were backups you can see from the slabs here they were five then all the switch gear and all the cabling that would drop down and go over to the the bunker next door so that's the bunker over there is it that's the main radar let's go take a look at that sure so this this is a pretty powerful radar we're talking about oh yeah when the Air Force took it over it became the Tia Amaria and then later on in life elado yeah you D to go in there sure let's uh let's take a look you're not a

fraid of bats are you well I don't want to get bitten by one Yep this is it right here probably won't want to go back in there probably not I I guarantee you don't and so people speculate that the uh the radar here was powerful enough to uh interfere somehow with an alien spacecraft that's that's a theory I might have brought it down and they would have had similar radar stations I assume down by Roswell they had one in Corona and uh if you read the historical reports we were going through last

night they also had one down at Walker which was Roswell right right coincidence yeah maybe huh if these guys came flying across Millions upon millions of miles of space if if they flew from or billions if they came from another star and a plantet around another star is it likely that they wouldn't be shielded against the kind of feeble radiation that would be coming out of our radar sets I mean How likely is it that they would have forgotten about that particular part of the spectrum and then t

hey come they get here and they get shot out of the sky and people are saying oh they're dropping out of the Skies what is all this business How could a sophisticated craft from far away crash you know we had two shuttles go too very sophisticated craft I think they may have run into the unexpected whe it was a radar beam or all kinds of other things uh ACD happen that's the way it is and uh I think if you look at the mothership descriptions these huge monster UFOs if you will which are seen to

have little ones going in and out of them one big vehicle could carry a whole bunch of these little vehicles and if they lose one they lose one okay explorers mellan didn't make it around the planet uh his ship made it he didn't make it I think that that Scott Ramsay has been a forerunner in this and has done some excellent research when he started there were a lot more Skeptics than there are today there were a lot of people who said they were crazy that this was just a scam there was nothing t

o it and he's proved that there were radar sites secret radar bases that were sending out microwave rays um microwave beams that that could have knocked a flying saucer out of the sky and caused it to cck Land north of Aztec and he's proved that fact so that gives it a a little bit more of a validity to me that there's some truth to these theories when you start getting the the government documents in your hand another intriguing fact is that the FBI file on Leo jab which has been Declassified t

he entire file runs to 400 pages of which only 200 have been Declassified and many of the documents contained within the the withheld material are classified for reasons affecting National Security and the defense of the USA now it's one thing for someone to be arrested and convicted for um scams and cons and things like this but it's a big leap for someone to be a con artist then to find that the FBI considers them a threat to National Security and so this sort of begs the question do the withh

eld documents contain far more on the Aztec case than has been published and put into the public domain by the FBI I think the fact that those files are still classified might be the result of two quite different things one is that they really were involved in some stuff and had some information that for whatever reason they agreed not to talk about but the FBI pressured them and so forth that's certainly a possibility another is the general FBI attitude the old Jay Edgar Hoover attitude about k

eeping track of people and getting files and you know having power over them and I don't know which it was uh Newton was sharp no question about that whether he stumbled across some things that he shouldn't have stumbled across I don't know a number of FBI documents make it very clear that the FBI and the Air Force at the time were following Newton and Jabar very very closely and we're literally listening on there every word we're going out to conferences and lectures that both men were speaking

and wanting to know what the truth was behind the Aztec case uh was it a genuine incident or was it simply a concoction of these two enterprising conmen it's possible there's something in there that would would bear on this and give us some answers and and maybe they would prefer for reasons which may or may not be legitimate uh to keep that quiet certainly we can't say oh this is real because these conmen told this story but because conman told the story about Aztec doesn't mean that there was

n't an Aztec story to be told a genuine one a legitimate one have to be real careful about this guilt by association or genuiness by association for that matter conment government coverups conflicting stories if there was a theme song for the investigation of the UFO phenomenon it might well be the Beatles the long and Winding Road the Aztec case is the perfect example of this both figuratively and literally in the case of Hart Canyon Road which leads to the alleged crash site in looking at the

story uh one of the things that's come under scrutiny is the fact that the Skeptics on the Aztec incident claimed that the heart Canyon Road did not exist in 1948 uh we know it did now that would have been the Stage Coach Road back in the late 1800s on the way to Durango if you go out to the crash site today follow Hart Canyon on the Old Stage Cod route you come up to what they call the Arkansas Loop or the Arkansas Bend and on top of that Plateau is a road cut through allegedly by the military

in 1948 to get the recovery equipment the cranes and whatnot down in there to retrieve the craft so this is the mystery Road this is the mystery tell me about the mystery Road well this road unless it shows up on recent Maps has never shown up anywhere right this is the road the uh military or whoever the recovery operation was allegedly cut uh to get back here to retrieve the craft okay and this was in March 48 that's right and this road now most of the roads around here you were telling me uh

it's oil roads and stuff like that they they're marked on the maps the USGA Maps is it USGA yeah right uh um and this road wasn't marked on any of those Maps until if it is marked T until recently very recently right so we've got a mystery Road yep and over here we've got a mystery cement block concrete pad let's go take a look at that then Prett good tell me the story behind the mystery slab of concrete well it really makes no sense why it's even here it's uh on the average 9 and 1 12 Ines thic

k did a core sample right at about a year ago what we're trying to establish is how old the slab is sure does it fit into the time frame of 1948 we've got rebar heavily fortified you know 9 1/2 in thick rebar all through it uh early Skeptics said it was a wellc cap we've rolled that out obviously if we had drilled through it through the concrete if there was High Press natural gas under there we'd know it so that's what they say the Skeptics said wellc for natural gas that's right and there is g

as oil around here all over yeah but not on a not on a Mesa that's bedrock and you go a few feet under this silt and you're going to hit Bedrock okay the uh gring is of local local indigenous to the the area so they didn't truck it in they just kind of they just use what was laying around here so if you're coming down the road you're in a you know Chop Chop you're in a hurry cutting a quick Road Uh something's happening real quick you know you just pull what you can find that's right from the lo

cal area okay bring your Portland cement your forms and rebar done with it now what's it doing here though why if if if if there was a crash site and all of this you know what is this when they cut the road as you can see to this day it's very salty they had trouble with one of the crane arm supports one of the legs of the crane and The Story Goes I had to pour this because the leg would just keep going into the S which as you can see around here is still a problem sure I mean if you just you ca

n just walk over here and uh yep take a look at the take a look at the sil I wouldn't want to put a crane on that no um all right so you got a mystery Road y you got a mystery slab roads allegedly cut by the military to come in here crane slabs allegedly put here uh to support or the slabs allegedly put here to support a crane what's the crane recovering allegedly flying disc allegedly a flying disc now where is the flying disc all right well we don't know where it is now but where was it back t

hen allegedly about 200 yd straight through well let's go take a look for me watch your footing got any snakes around here ah not this time here the recovery group that uh was sent out to Aztec was a hybrid recovery that had been formed after the Roswell incident uh because the Roswell incident had been so badly botched with a news release uh basically a lot of people at the base being aware of it the newspaper running an article and after the Roswell incident this newly Recovery Group was forme

d this would have been a very very elite group uh so they would never have a another Roswell incident where they had some young guys at a base even though the 509th was a top-notch base with top-notch people it was 8 months later you know Roswell kind of got botched the news release the press release and uh the old timer I talked to that was in air intelligence said that we were dealing with a much more mature crowd back then late 30s early 40s so they would never have the uh they'd never have a

nother Roswell press releases going out young PR officers and that sort of thing right this was one of the best recoveries they had done to date I think GC is certainly part of the cover up I think after Roswell they got much better at covering things up making sure that they monitored flights of vehicles so they would get there first remembering that New Mexico is not highly populated I mean today is less than maybe 2 million people in the fifth largest state mind you um I think that the govern

ment made it a strong policy they set up mj12 and they put the clamps on and part of the keeping secrets is to lie and misrepresent and misdirect a standard practice you know again uh New Mexico when the first Adam bomas exploded July 16th 1945 uh was seen from 100 miles away it was a pretty big bang uh there were articles in the newspaper ammunition dump blows up nobody injured fortunately I've got some of those articles they got good at covering things [Music] up what we feel based on all the

reports this would be the epicenter of the crash site right here it was it virtually intact right that was was it a soft Landing was it a crash we don't know now there's a plaque over here so this is a commemorative plaque of the of the alleged incident recovery at Hart Canyon honor about this site on March 25th 1948 the spacecraft of Origins unknown crash landed on this Mesa the 767 A&W radar base in nearby alvado New Mexico tracked the erant landing to this site high security recovery operatio

n took approximately 2 weeks with all remains being taken to Los Alamos New Mexico for scientific study an evaluation by some of the world's leading scientists and Los Alamos is what 2 hours from here 2 and a half about 127 miles as the crow flies sure the recovery of this craft by the US government military was one of the most secretive recoveries of spacecraft with Origins unknown since the similar recovery in Roswell New Mexico 8 months earlier sadly all occupants as many as 16 died as the re

sult of this crash making full disclosure of both purpose and or origination all but impossible I was put here in 1999 3 years after the Symposium started uh one year one oh right yeah one year 98 was the first year right so this is it not much to look at but no not really who knows what happened here a lot of Twisted dead trees lot of broken off trees and a big open space that uh about 35 ft wide 110 ft long the only question is what crashed here did anything crash here yeah all right I love vi

siting New Mexico not just because I'm interested in the UFO phenomenon but because its vast empty spaces are so different so alien one might say to my home Halifax Nova Scotia a bustling Cosmopolitan sea port on on Canada's East Coast out here I sometimes feel that I'm at the edge of the world and yet there are similarities between New Mexico and Nova Scotia friendly people for example that might not be readily apparent but which do exist these common elements are also present in the Roswell an

d Aztec UFO incidents no matter how much the Skeptics might tell you otherwise let's do a comparison of Roswell an atic Roswell made the front page of many many newspapers across the country we had an intelligence officer who was given the release to go ahead and release the information to the Press later retracting it the next day Aztec we may have one newspaper article that made it out that has conveniently disappeared out of the archives you hear the argument we don't have eyewitnesses at Azt

ec well we didn't have eyewitnesses four or five years ago we have eyewitnesses now unfortunately some are deceased one key eyewitness that we had he's deceased now was Doug Nolan uh grew up in the four corners area at 19 years of age work for the AL Paso oil company was in his truck that day that over the radio they had an old Motorola radio in the truck uh traveling with his boss Bill Ferguson they were called on the radio to get out to hard Canyon because of the brush fire the infamous brush

fire we hear about upon uh arriving at the crash site they were told by other workers the brush fires on one side they were worried about a drip tank getting ignited in the brush fire upon arrival there other oil field workers told them that it's not the brush fire you got to see you got to see what's lying up on the Mas Doug went on to tell us all the locals that were there the police the two police officers that were there his boss Bill Ferguson who's probably deceased although we were still l

ooking for him I had the luxury of interviewing Doug back uh about October of 2003 and he passed away December 7th that we have an eyewitness we have a deathbed confession Doug it had six Strokes from June until October uh was very slow and methodical and recalling the incident and appeared to be very credible in the interview in the late uh '90s early 2000 we were contacted by a gentleman Ken Farley from Bat Cave Arizona and Ken uh wanted to talk to us he was in very bad Health Randy Barnes and

I met down in Phoenix ran out a car drove up interviewed Ken for probably 3 hours took very good notes Ken was uh very ill on oxygen he has since passed away Ken told his side of the story that uh he was in Durango passing through to San Diego fresh out of the military met a friend in uh Cedar Hill a drop off point where he was to pick him up and keep traveling to San Diego his friend told him there was a lot of commotion going on out on har Canyon Road and they thought an aircraft had gone dow

n Ken and his friend uh got to the crash site and walked out to the western side of where the disc was and at that point a group of people from Aztec the oil field people uh two Law Enforcement Officers showed up we're already actually at the scene and uh we found Ken's story believable but we had a hard time digesting the two police officers we figured today if you were out there and you called 911 you'd be lucky to get one in a reasonable time frame no no disrespect to the local law enforcemen

t but it's out in the middle of nowhere and the fact that there's two police officers out there we had a little bit of a problem with we didn't write off his interview we kind of parked it over in the the holding pen until we got more eyewitnesses then in 2003 we were we contacted Doug Nolan who had contacted bill styman it was one of the leftover leads Bill never got to after the book was published Doug told an interesting story which was very believable backed up with names of other local resi

dents but about 3/4 of the way through the interview he mentions the other police officer and I stopped Doug and I said what other police officer he said well we had the local police officer and then another gentleman young guy well Doug was 19 at the time and said that police officer was about his age slightly older that police officer didn't seem to intermingle with the locals so Doug went over and talked to him and he said he was from the town of Cuba New Mexico which is southeast of of Aztec

that police officer claimed he had followed the craft that night up what is now 550 the Old Highway 44 we dug into the details his best Doug again was dying he had had six Strokes since past June Doug also said uh he was going through who was at the crash site that day could remember all but two people cuz he didn't know who they were and I asked him who and he said two young guys maybe three that stood at the western side of the crash light at that point that tied in Ken Farley's story also ba

cking up his Claim about the two police Poli officers so we had stories that were now starting to connect with Witnesses in the winter of 2002 I was contacted by Glenn Pace Glenn Pace was uh born and raised in the Farmington area subsequently he was interviewed extensively by Linda Molton how told a very interesting story as a Young Man delivering papers a day or two after the Aztec crash back then the local paper was called The Hustler that's since then since then it's now the Farmington Daily

Times Glenn recalls delivering papers with an article on the cover of the Hustler referring to ranchers find disc on Ranch in heart Canyon Road at that time that is one of a few years of the Hustler there is no archive microfish on years later Glen Pace was working down at White Sand's Missile Range now white Sand's Proving Ground and uh worked with Otto Krauss who was a very well-known scientist of his day passed away the early 90s and autoc Krauss asked him where he was from and when Glenn sai

d the Farmington area night after night of working out on the test range they got to know each other pretty well and Otto said that he was uh somehow involved in the Aztec UFO recovery and doing research and looking into autoc krauss's background I believe he would have been somebody you would have included in that he was a very brilliant man of his day uh autom made reference to Glenn that the Aztec recovery was one of the best ones the military had done again using words close to we didn't bot

ch it like we did in Roswell March 27th of uh 19 1999 I was contacted indirectly by Fred Reed he had contacted the Daily Times and the Aztec public library and sent a very nice letter he had attended the uh 97 Symposium and I subsequently sat down on the phone and talked to Fred for for quite a long time in 1948 he worked for the OSS predecessor to uh the CIA and Fred and his crew was dispatched to the Aztec crash site uh after the crash was removed matter of fact there was no discussion of a a

UFO or a flying disc they were told to go out and do a final cleanup of the [Music] site and to absolutely map and Survey with great Precision the entire area and when talking to Fred I asked Fred well what were your thoughts what do you what did you think when you and your crew got here and he said actually we thought a plane had crashed which would make sense with all the air traffic over the state of New Mexico Military at that time uh he described the Mesa back then having just been there a

couple days before looking back to 1948 that there had been large equipment out there which they were told to not really Rel landscape but kind of retexture get rid of all the the heavy equipment tracks uh C up anything left behind K rash and cams whatnot which by the way later we did find some 18 in down in the soil map the entire area make sure a cleanup uh was well done nothing left behind and uh move on which was not unusual for uh his group in the OSS years later uh Fred was talking to some

senior officers on what happened out at Aztec and it was eluded that it was a rather large flying disc they never came out and said that it was a gentleman he befriended that was senior to him but interesting that's uh they were actually sent out to do a cleanup and uh some of the interesting things that uh Fred uh enlightened us with we've always had a question of the ctin road the mystery Road and the concrete slab and uh Fred said 1948 it was quite evident but that was a fresh cut Road and t

he concrete slab which again was used to uh Aid a crane leg support leg to get some object off the Mason Fred and I made a uh a date to sit down and have lunch and go over his service records and kind of go into the story a little bit more and unfortunately he died of a massive heart attack about a month later he died in March of that year wrong excuse me April of that year a lot of skeptical people will will come up to me and others and say things like well you know do you really think that the

government or any government could hide to something as Monumental as aliens for 50 years you know you give them too much credit they're not that good our governments are not that smart they they can't keep it secret you hear this all the time uh I think that's that's utter nonsense um I think to ask this question betrays a real lack of understanding about how secrecy oper Ates for instance to answer the question can can such a secret be kept the true answer is yes and no it's really both uh it

is yes first of all in the sense that secrecy protocols within the military in particular are extreme penalties are extreme um you sign away your constitutional rights in many cases when you are exposed to very very sensitive classified information and uh in many cases this is binding for life so it's not that easy to just to go talking about what you've experienced but the answer in a sense is no in the sense that leaks do occur leaks have always occurred regarding UFOs right from the late 40s

right on through to the present day stuff gets out that is true however um the real issue is if you're trying to manage this problem and you're trying to control the UFO problem uh the real problem comes not to slam that lid down 100% because that's that is impossible the real issue it seems to me is to neutralize or make useless information that does come out how do you do that one of the good witnesses that we've uh located who wishes to uh remain anonymous is a gentleman that I divulge to an

d uh he was not at the crash site uh but worked behind the scenes out of the RO Roswell Army Airfield basically his job was to review Personnel records of the up to 200 people that worked on the recovery and uh to make sure that their personnel files would not reflect that they were at the crash site in other words making sure that if years down the road somebody made that claim that they could show through their personnel files that they were nowhere near the area like the Jesse Marcel case if

Roswell this individual didn't find us we found him apparently a lot of the uh UFO reports that were not going to Blue Book that were going to this Air Force Intel we going to him and as luck would have it when we found him he was still alive and was up until a few months back the Skeptics maintain that this is all hooey that you could never keep a flying saucer crash secret that someone whether on the recovery team or a civilian witness would talk about something as big as Roswell or Aztec but

would they and if they tried who would really be listening one of the most intriguing ones I investigated occurred in early 1964 and involved the recovery of a small triangular-shaped object from a a Midlands forest and in this particular case um I tracked down various Witnesses who recalled seeing military cordons and police cordin turning people away from the area uh one witness who stood out more than any other um literally stumbled upon the recovery scene of this object which was being loade

d aboard a military transport vehicle and he was treated quite roughly by the military had his camera and film confiscated and was warned not to talk about this incident this was February 1964 and he spoke to me in September 1996 and when myself and a colleague went to interview him um he'd had this just before we arrived he'd had this rather bizarre and kind of threatening telephone call from the ministry of Defense ordering him as a civilian not to talk to us about this particular case and it

did put him off speaking he was quite frightened by it all and of course we hear accounts like this very often within the UFO subject and you need to investigate each one on its own Merit um what we did we through various checks and um things like this we were able to determine that he had indeed received a telephone call from the ministry of Defense one specific branch called the ministry of Defense guard service now this man is now in his 70s he's a just a retired washing machine repairer um l

iving on his own in a small apartment and he gets a phone call from the ministry of Defense police at 9:00 in the morning warning him not to talk about an incident that he was involved in 40 years previously unfortunately we were able to verify the incoming details of this telephone call to to confirm that he did receive it and so this kind of begs the question what kind of incident could be of Paramount importance to the British Ministry of defense that 40 years after it occurred someone is sti

ll keeping watch on the people who are involved in the case to the extent that they're being told not to talk to civilian UFO researchers and the fact that we arranged the interview by telephone then that sort of brings up all sort of other scenarios about telephone monitoring operations um to keep this story under wraps and as as skeptical as I was when I first got into the subject um even for me now you know I've had events and occurrences like this happened so many times that you know I'm I b

elieve there is a concerted effort on the part of a a covert organization buried incredibly well within within the intelligence Community to keep watch on the more sensitive and Sensational aspects of the UFO subject I think there really was a crash there I think that Scott has gathered a lot of witnesses I think we've got more to find and of course we're racing The Undertaker and losing the race most of the time several important Witnesses have died within the past year I personally think that

New Mexico would have been a prime target for any alien visitors I mean I make one assumption about all civilizations out there Le well is here for that matter that they're concerned about their own Survival and security that seems to be a natural part of the development of any Advanced civilization okay that being the case you have to keep tabs on The Primitives in the neighborhood but only close tabs frequent visitations detailed investigations when they show signs of being able to bother you

at the end of World War II there were three signs that soon these idiot earthlings this primitive Society whose major activity is tribal Warfare we to look far to see that it's still that way we don't need to look far for that would be moving out soon meaning 100 years which on a cosmic time scale is nothing the three signs were clearly nuclear weapons you measure the radiation in the atmosphere it's easy to find V2 Rockets which obviously weren't being used to carry mail back and forth between

Germany and England and Powerful Electronics radar systems in particular which suddenly appeared on this planet used to be AM radio which sticks around the planet and now suddenly you've got radar beams that go outside we're obviously moving along with development of electronic systems I don't think it's any coincidence at all that the only place on the planet where you could check out all three of these Technologies in 1947 and 48 was Southeastern New Mexico that's where the first adom bomb was

tested Trinity site on Alam magero Army Airfield white sense Proving Ground if you want to call it that uh the B2 rockets were all being tested there that we had captured from the Germans and we were modifying some to go up much higher and things like that and that's where we had our best radar to track the Rockets which sometimes went South instead of North even though they were supposed to go north uh I would be flabbergast that if aliens weren't checking out the place so New Mexico would hav

e been a natural place for aliens to visit but Roswell and Aztec remain controversial at best is there a related UFO incident that even the Skeptics can accept as real as it happens there is and it occurred just a few miles from Aztec in Farmington New Mexico the uh the Farmington Armada case is a is a classic in euphology uh in in March of 1950 a large number of people in Farmington New Mexico which at that time was a lot smaller than it is now I mean dramatically smaller I think now it's about

30,000 were dealing in those days with maybe uh 3,000 people if that it in any case they what they saw were literally hundreds of objects circling in the sky and zooming back and forth in formation and uh most people describing them as being shaped like dinner plates classic flying saucers including one that was bright red all the others were silvery and the bright r one red one is interesting particularly because as it led a group of these of saucers away from Farmington uh to the off to the s

outheast roughly almost actually more do East just a little south of that uh a few minutes later before any of this could hit the newswires or be on the radio anywhere in Las Vegas New Mexico a group of uh of postal workers were outside taking a break or something and looked up and saw a group of saucers whizzing over and one of them was bright red uh I think these people were actually did see indeed you know who knows it was this a randev Vu Point were they all dropping down from the mothership

and then heading out to the Four Points of the compass or what they were doing I don't know but I think they really did see something quite real the Farmington Armada which involved lots of people seeing lots of stuff up there lots of vehicles if you will half the town I guess saw these things uh Dr James E McDonald did a detailed investigation found loads of people who'd seen things maybe that was the Gathering Place I don't know four corners area there who knows why they were there I mean who

knows why people picnic in a certain area you know I don't know and it may be a staging area okay you guys check out the nuclear weapon sites over there and remember pretty soon we were building nuclear weap testing nuclear weapons in Nevada which is the other way from Farmington toward Roswell in the other direction uh they had a great Gathering laying out their their plans for for their reconnaissance and it was taken seriously by the Farmington Daily Times as you can see by this headline whi

ch ran on Saturday March 18th of 1950 huge saucer Armada joltz Farmington there were several witnesses to the event and Lincoln O'Brien the publisher of the paper actually sent a telegram by Western Union to Kim pie of the true magazine whole city Farmington New Mexico where we own daily sees large Forest flying saucers air mailing You full reports story terrific not fully developed if you want to send man to Farmington we will assist him in every way so it was taken seriously at that time and I

think that that was probably because there had been so many connections to UFOs in the late 1940s and early 1950s and there are some people who believe that this saucer Armada was actually connected to the crash at Roswell and at Aztec we had the crash at Roswell in 47 the crash in Aztec in 48 and then the flyover in 1950 and several people believe that the saucers flew over information as a salute to their fallen comrades because it did happen in March the same month that the Aztec crash was r

eported to have happened so crash side here we've already been up there saucer came in which direction I you story says from that direction from over Bloomfield Blanco right and right through this tree line right here where all the trees are damaged and twisted came to rest right in here down in here so there it is the Aztec UFO incident the first of the crashed Flying Saucer Tales but is it a fraud perpetrated by a couple of clever comment on an unwitting journalist or is it part of the greates

t of all government conspiracies the truth as so often seems to be the case in the UFO field remains a mystery it is up to you you to judge the evidence I'll give the final word however to Scott Ramsey the man most responsible for bringing that evidence to light once again in in concluding with the Aztec incident you you have to look at uh I think we certainly have look at the original story look at what the Skeptics have to say take the original information that Skelly published in 1950 at whic

h we've done and then digest it from there and I think we've we've proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that somebody with incredibly good Insider information was telling Frank skelly's story we've got a lot more research to do on the Aztec incident there's no doubt if if our research shows that Aztec was a tall story that got out of control we'll be the first ones to come forward and and say that uh but until then it's an open case it's an mystery and we're going to keep going on [Music] it [Music

] [Music] a [Music]