JOYCE: AND I JUST THINK
WE HAVE THE TOTALLY WRONG UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT LOVE IS. I REALLY BELIEVE THAT EVERYBODY
CONNECTS IT TO THEIR FEELINGS AND THAT'S JUST NOT WHAT IT IS. IT'S NOT THEORY. IT'S NOT A SERMON. IT'S ACTION. IT'S HOW YOU TREAT PEOPLE. GINGER: HI, FRIENDS. WELCOME TO JOYCE MEYER'S
TALK IT OUT PODCAST WHERE MY FRIENDS AND I TALK
ABOUT GOD'S WORD AND THE REAL STUFF OF LIFE AND WE HOLD
NOTHING BACK. I'M GINGER STACHE,
WITH ERIN CLULEY, JAI, AND OF COURSE, JOYCE MEYER. WE'RE ALL IN DI
FFERENT
STAGES OF LIFE. A YOUNG CAREER WOMAN
AND MOM TO TWO SWEET KIDDOS. AN ACCOMPLISHED SONGWRITER
FACING AN UNEXPECTED NEW LIFE'S JOURNEY. A LEADER, CREATIVE, AN AUTHOR
WITH A HEART FOR ADVENTURE. AND A WORLD-RENOWNED BIBLE
TEACHER WHOSE PERSONAL STORY HAS IMPACTED MILLIONS. AND THERE'S YOU,
BECAUSE SOMETIMES YOU JUST NEED TO TALK ABOUT
LIFE WITH YOUR GIRLFRIENDS. SO, CONSIDER YOURSELF
ONE OF US, AND LET'S TALK IT OUT. GINGER: HI, EVERYONE. WE HAVE A REALLY IMPORTANT
TOPIC FOR YOU, TODAY. AND
I DON'T KNOW
ANYONE WHO WOULD SAY, "I DON'T NEED THIS TOPIC."
WE ARE TALKING, TODAY, ABOUT HOW TO LOVE PEOPLE
THAT ARE HARD TO LOVE. JAI: MY LORD. GINGER: JOYCE HAS WRITTEN
A BOOK ON IT, AND I'LL TELL YA, WE NEED IT. AND REALLY, THE WORLD,
RIGHT NOW, NEEDS THIS MORE THAN EVER. JOYCE: RIGHT. AND THERE--YOU KNOW,
WE'RE ALL HARD TO LOVE AT TIMES. SO, WE CAN'T ACT LIKE
THAT WE NEVER ARE. BUT THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE
THAT ARE JUST REALLY EXTRA, EXTRA HARD TO LOVE. AND ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS
TO REMEMBE
R IS THEY PROBABLY ARE LIKE THAT BECAUSE THEY'RE
HURTING SOMEWHERE IN THEIR LIFE. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY GETS OUT
OF BED AND JUST PURPOSELY TRIES TO BE OBNOXIOUS ALL DAY LONG. YOU KNOW, THAT--A LOT OF PEOPLE
THAT ARE BEHAVING BADLY DON'T EVEN REALIZE THAT THEY ARE. OR THEY JUST ARE HURTING
SO BAD THEY DON'T HAVE ANY SELF-CONTROL. I HAD A LOT OF YEARS IN MY LIFE
WHERE I WASN'T VERY NICE, BUT I DIDN'T REALLY EVEN
REALIZE BECAUSE I'D BEEN RAISED AROUND PEOPLE
THAT WEREN'T VERY NICE. AND SO, I WAS JU
ST ACTING
OUT OF WHAT I SAW. GINGER: AND BEEN THROUGH
A LOT, THAT SHAPED YOUR PERSONALITY AT THAT TIME. JOYCE: RIGHT, YEAH. GINGER: THAT--THERE ARE
SO MANY PEOPLE THAT WE COME ACROSS EVERY DAY THAT
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENES
AND HOW THEIR WORLDS ARE JUST TURNED UPSIDE DOWN. JOYCE: YEAH, AND YOU--
SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE ABOUT ALL THE HATRED
AND THE ANGER THAT'S IN THE WORLD, TODAY. AND I DON'T KNOW ANY WAY
TO TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO CHANGE OTHER THAN TO CONVINCE THEM. IT'S A
ONE-BY-ONE DECISION. EVERYBODY HAS TO MAKE
THEIR DECISION. AND IF ENOUGH CHRISTIANS--
BECAUSE THERE REALLY ARE A LOT OF US. IF ENOUGH CHRISTIANS WOULD
JUST MAKE THE DECISION. BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST
UNBELIEVERS THAT ARE MAD, ANGRY, AND UNFORGIVING. GINGER: OH, CERTAINLY NOT. THE CHRISTIANS,
WE CAN BE THE WORST, SOMETIMES. ERIN: IT'S TRUE. JOYCE: AND VERY
JUDGMENTAL AND CRITICAL. AND, YOU KNOW, WE THINK
THAT "WELL, I BELIEVE IS RIGHT AND NOBODY ELSE,"
YOU KNOW, "KNOWS ANYTHING." AND THAT ATTITUDE,
THE BIBLE SAYS IN EPHESIANS 4:30 THAT
IT GRIEVES THE HOLY SPIRIT. AND THAT'S--WHEN YOU REALLY
THINK ABOUT THAT. THAT'S BAD. AND SINCE HE LIVES IN US,
IF HE'S GRIEVED, I THINK WE FEEL THAT GRIEF, TOO. SO, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE
ARE UNHAPPY. AND THEY DON'T EVEN
REALIZE IT'S BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN ATTITUDE. AND THE REALLY IMPORTANT
THING THAT I HOPE TO TRY TO GET ACROSS TO PEOPLE THROUGH
THIS BOOK AND THE DIFFERENT TEACHINGS IS THAT LOVE
IS NOT A FEELING. YOU KNOW, THERE IS A TYPE
OF LOVE THAT PRODU
CES ROMANTIC FEELINGS,
BUT IT'S NOT THE AGAPE LOVE THAT JESUS HAS FOR US,
THAT GOD HAS FOR US. HE LOVES US IN A WAY THAT HAS
NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR BEHAVIOR. HE LOVES US, LITERALLY,
INTO WHOLENESS. AND PEOPLE GET MARRIED
ON FEELINGS, AND THEN WHEN THE FEELINGS ARE GONE,
THEY GET DIVORCED. OR WHEN SOMETHING DOESN'T
TURN OUT THE WAY THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD, THEY GET DIVORCED,
OR SOMEBODY HURTS 'EM, THEY GET DIVORCED. AND WE HAVE TO LEARN THAT
LOVE IS--IT'S A DECISION THAT YOU MAKE ABOUT HOW YOU'RE
G
OING TO TREAT SOMEONE. GINGER: ALL PEOPLE. JOYCE: YEAH, ALL PEOPLE. GINGER: YEAH. JOYCE: ALL PEOPLE. THAT'S THE SIMPLEST WAY
I KNOW HOW TO SAY IT. GINGER: SO, WE'RE GONNA
GET REAL PRACTICAL AND GIVE SOME HELP FOR ALL OF US
BECAUSE WE NEED IT. WE NEED TO KNOW HOW
TO DO THIS BETTER. BUT FIRST, WE'RE GONNA
START WITH A LITTLE CLIP FROM JOYCE TEACHING. SHE'S GONNA TELL US ABOUT
HOW--THIS IS SUCH GREAT NEWS, EVEN THE DISCIPLES HAD A HARD
TIME GETTING ALONG, SOMETIMES. SO, LET'S LISTEN TO THIS. JOYCE:
"THEN PETER CAME
TO JESUS--" THIS IS ALL JUST ONE VERSE AFTER ANOTHER. THIS IS ALL THE SAME SUBJECT. "THEN PETER CAME TO JESUS
AND SAID, "'HOW MANY TIMES CAN MY BROTHER SIN AGAINST ME AND I
FORGIVE HIM AND LET IT GO? [AS MANY AS] SEVEN?'"
I THINK THAT'S INTERESTING. YOU KNOW, PETER HAD PROBABLY
HEARD THE RABBIS TEACH, WHICH THEY DID TEACH IN THOSE DAYS,
THAT, "WE MUST FORGIVE THREE TIMES BUT THE FOURTH TIME
WE DON'T NEED TO FORGIVE." I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY CAME UP
WITH THAT BUT THAT WAS WHAT T
HEY TAUGHT SO PETER FIGURED THAT
JESUS' STANDARD WOULD BE A LITTLE HIGHER BUT HE SURELY
DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD BE ANYMORE THAN SEVEN. [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] JOYCE: WHY WOULD PETER EVEN
ASK A QUESTION LIKE THAT? WELL, I'M TOTALLY CONVINCED THAT
THOSE 12 DISCIPLES DID NOT ALL LIKE EACH OTHER AND DID NOT ALL
APPRECIATE EACH OTHER. THERE'S ENOUGH INFORMATION IN
THE BIBLE FOR US TO KNOW THAT THERE WAS COMPETITION
BETWEEN 'EM. THEY WERE JEALOUS OF EACH OTHER,
AND I THINK IT'S PRETTY PLAIN THAT PETER HAD A
LITTLE BIT
OF A HARD TIME WITH JOHN'S PERSONALITY. I MEAN, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE
TO BE PETER BOLD, AGGRESSIVE, DOESN'T USE A LOT OF WISDOM WITH
HIS MOUTH, QUICK TEMPERED? HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO HANG OUT
WITH SOMEBODY WHO CALLS HIMSELF, "THE DISCIPLE WHOM JESUS LOVES"? [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] JOYCE: "I AM--" AND JOHN
WROTE THE BOOK OF JOHN AND HE SAID THAT REPEATED TIMES. "I AM THE DISCIPLE THAT
JESUS LOVES." AND HIS WHOLE PERSONALITY
WAS DIFFERENT. HE WAS JUST REAL RELATIONAL, AND
HANGING AROUND, LOVIN
G JESUS. AND PETER, HE'S A MAN OF ACTION. HE WANTS TO GO DO SOMETHIN'. AND SO, THEY HAD ISSUES, JUST
LIKE WE HAVE ISSUES WITH PEOPLE. IT IS, YOU KNOW, THIS MYTH OF
FINDING ANYBODY THAT'S PERFECT IS JUST USELESS BECAUSE
EVERYBODY MAY BE A ROSE, BUT THEY COME WITH THORNS. THERE'S GOOD, THERE'S STRENGTHS,
AND THERE'S WEAKNESS IN EVERYBODY, AND THE MORE YOU ARE
WITH ANY ONE PERSON, THE MORE THEY ARE LIKELY TO IRRITATE YOU
IN SOME WAY. AND THESE 12 GUYS LIVED TOGETHER
ALL THE TIME. SEE, YOU'RE ALL PO
KING
EACH OTHER AND LIKE-- [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] JOYCE: OH, LISTEN, I LOVE
MY HUSBAND TREMENDOUSLY, BUT HE DOES THINGS
THAT IRRITATE ME. AND THE FUNNY THING ABOUT DAVE
IS WHEN HE KNOWS HE IRRITATES ME, THEN HE DOES IT MORE JUST
TO IRRITATE ME MORE BECAUSE HE THINKS IT'S FUNNY. AND I WON'T GET INTO DAVE'S
STORIES OR I'LL NEVER GET MY MESSAGE FINISHED BUT HE'S--I
MEAN, I CAN GIVE YOU A BIG LONG LIST OF THINGS THAT HE DOES. [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] JOYCE: I'M SURE I DO THINGS
TOO BUT HE JUST NEVER SAYS AN
YTHING ABOUT IT LIKE I DO. I'M HAPPY TO TELL HIM
WHAT HE DOES THAT IRRITATES ME. [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] JOYCE: AND LIKE I SAID,
HE THINKS IT'S FUNNY. HE'S LIKE, "OH GOOD, NOW I'LL DO
IT SOME MORE." SO JESUS SAID, "'NOT UP TO
SEVEN TIMES, PETER, BUT SEVENTY TIMES SEVEN.'"
AND HE REALLY-- HE BASICALLY WAS JUST SAYING
HOWEVER MANY TIMES IT TAKES. NOW, YOU KNOW, TO FORGIVE THE
SAME PERSON FOR THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER GETS EVEN HARDER
THAN FORGIVING SOMEBODY FOR SOMETHING ONCE. NOW, FORGIVENESS DOES
N'T ALWAYS
MEAN THAT YOU NEED TO STAY IN SOME KIND OF A DEEP RELATIONSHIP
WITH SOMEBODY, BUT IT HAS TO DO WITH YOUR HEART ATTITUDE
TOWARD THEM. AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO
REALIZE IS THAT HURTING PEOPLE HURT PEOPLE, AND WE NEED TO TAKE
A LITTLE MORE TIME TO PRAY ABOUT AND BE MORE DISCERNING, NOT
ABOUT JUST WHAT PEOPLE DO BUT MAYBE WHY THEY DID IT, WHY THEY
BEHAVE THE WAY THEY BEHAVE. GINGER: I LOVE THAT YOU
SAID--IT'S JUST SUCH HONESTY, THAT THE MORE YOU'RE
AROUND SOMEONE, THEY ARE EVENTUAL
LY GOING TO ANNOY YOU. JOYCE: YEAH. GINGER: YOU KNOW, I MEAN,
IT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS. AND THE DISCIPLES WERE
TOGETHER ALL THE TIME. SO, WE ALL HAVE THE POTENTIAL
FOR THAT ROSE, BUT THOSE THORNS
ARE THERE, TOO. SO, WHO WOULD YOU CALL
THE PRICKLY PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE? JAI: [LAUGHS] OH, LORD. ERIN: IT FEELS DANGEROUS
TO CALL THAT OUT. GINGER: NO, I DON'T
WANT NAMES. ERIN: DO YOU WANNA LIST? GINGER: NO NAMES, NO, NO, NO. JOYCE: I STARTED TO SAY,
YOU'RE TRYIN' TO START SOMETHING, HERE. JAI: I WAS REA
DY. GINGER: NO, NO. ERIN: LET ME PULL IT OUT. I GOT IT HERE. I WROTE IT DOWN. GINGER: NO, BUT WHAT
TYPE OF PEOPLE DO YOU FIND IT MORE DIFFICULT TO LOVE? JOYCE: WELL, I WAS MORE
LIKE PETER. I AM MORE LIKE PETER. AND SO, I WOULDA HAD
A HARD TIME WITH JOHN. I WOULD HAVE SAID,
"YOU KNOW, WHY DON'T YOU JUST QUIT LAYING AROUND MAKING
GOO-GOO EYES AND GET UP AND DO SOMETHING."
GINGER: "QUIT MAKING GOO-GOO EYES AT JESUS
AND GET UP AND DO SOMETHING." JOYCE: "GET UP
AND DO SOMETHING. WE GOT WORK TO DO, JO
HN."
AND I'M A TYPE A CHOLERIC. AND PROBABLY, THE PERSONALITY
THAT I HAVE THE MOST TROUBLE WITH IS A FULL ON 100% SANGUINE,
WHO JUST WANTS TO GIGGLE ABOUT EVERYTHING AND JUST
THINKS LIFE IS ONE BIG PARTY. AND, YOU KNOW,
CUZ I'M A WORKER AND I WANT EVERYBODY TO BE SERIOUS,
AND LET'S GET THE JOB DONE, AND I'M NOT MESSING AROUND. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
HELPED ME MORE THAN ANYTHING TO GET ALONG WITH PEOPLE WAS
FINALLY GETTING IT THROUGH MY HEAD THAT GOD DID NOT
CREATE ALL OF US ALIKE. AND REALLY
, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT,
PEOPLE CAN'T HELP THE WAY THEY ARE. NOW, OBVIOUSLY, IF IT'S
SOMETHING THAT'S AGAINST THE WORD, THEN WE NEED
TO WORK WITH GOD TO CHANGE IT. BUT I MEAN, YOU--IF YOU'RE
A FUN-LOVING PERSON AND THAT'S YOUR MOTIVATION IN LIFE,
THAT'S THE WAY YOU'RE GONNA BE. AND IF YOU'RE A WORKER,
LIKE I AM, THAT'S THE WAY YOU'RE GONNA BE. AND SO, YOU KNOW,
DAVE'S REAL LAID BACK AND EASYGOING,
AND I'VE WISHED, NUMBERS OF TIMES,
I COULD BE LIKE THAT. BUT I'M NOT LIKE THAT
AND I'M NOT EVER GOING
TO BE LIKE THAT. GINGER: WHAT ABOUT YOU GUYS? JAI: I'M PRETTY
SIMILAR TO THAT. LIKE, I LIKE TO--
I'M PRETTY TYPE A. I LIKE TO GET THINGS DONE. AND EVEN THOUGH, LIKE,
SOMETIMES, I EXPRESS MYSELF IN A MORE EXPRESSIVE WAY,
PEOPLE TEND TO THINK THAT I'M MORE EXTROVERTED
THAN I REALLY AM. I'M PRETTY INTROVERTED,
HONESTLY, IN REAL LIFE, WITH--AMONGST THE PEOPLE
THAT I CARE ABOUT. AND SO, PEOPLE TEND TO WANT
ME TO BE ON ALL THE TIME. SO, THAT--
LIKE, THAT THE SANGUINES, OF THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD. GIN
GER: PEOPLE WITH
UNFAIR EXPECTATIONS. JAI: YEAH, BECAUSE THEY SEE--
THEY CREATE THIS NARRATIVE OF WHO THEY THINK I AM,
AND EXPECT ME TO LIVE UP TO THAT VERSUS WHO I TRULY AM. THAT'S ONE. AND THEN ANOTHER ONE IS LIKE
WHEN PEOPLE LIKE TO SWEEP THINGS UNDER THE RUG,
UNDER THE--I GUESS, THE VICE OF SAYING,
"LET IT GO," YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF LIKE, HAVING
THE HARD CONVERSATION AND REALLY GETTING TO IT. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY,
IF WE LOVE EACH OTHER, LIKE-- TO TALK THROUGH IT. JOYCE: YOU LIKE TO
DEAL
WITH STUFF, AND I DO TOO. JAI: LIKE TO DEAL WITH IT. I DON'T--
I'M NOT THE TYPE OF PERSON THAT LIKE, JUST ACT
LIKE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. IF I KNOW THERE'S AN ELEPHANT
IN THE ROOM, I'M GONNA BE LIKE, "HEY, THERE'S AN ELEPHANT
IN THE ROOM. HOW ARE WE GONNA GET IT OUT?"
LIKE, SO THAT--THOSE ARE THINGS THAT TRIGGER ME,
LIKE WHEN IT COMES TO BEING DIFFICULT TO LOVE PEOPLE
THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE, IT SEEMS LIKE, THEY SWEEP
THINGS UNDER THE RUG AND DON'T LIKE TO CONFRONT IT,
OR PEOPLE THAT TRY TO MAKE ME
BE WHO THEY WANT
ME TO BE, YOU KNOW, SO. GINGER: THAT MAKES SENSE. ERIN: YEAH, THAT'S GOOD. PEOPLE WHO COMPLAIN A LOT,
I HAVE A REALLY HARD TIME WITH. THOSE WHO SEE A GLASS HALF
EMPTY KIND OF VIEW ON LIFE. WHICH IS PROBABLY REALLY
ANNOYING TO THEM BECAUSE I AM SO GLASS HALF FULL,
AND THEY'RE PROBABLY, EQUALLY ANNOYED BY ME. BUT THAT--IT IS DRAINING TO ME,
AND IT IS JUST HARD FOR ME TO FEEL THAT MUCH
EMPATHY WHEN THERE'S NOT THAT MUCH--THERE'S GOOD
THINGS HAPPENING TOO. JOYCE: SO, YOU'RE REAL
PO
SITIVE AND PEOPLE THAT ARE REAL NEGATIVE OBVIOUSLY
ARE HARD FOR YOU TO DEAL WITH. ERIN: YES, AND THEY PROBABLY
FEEL THE SAME ABOUT ME. AND, I ALSO--SIMILAR TO WHAT
YOU'RE SAYING, JAI, I HAVE A HARD TIME WITH
PEOPLE THAT I FEEL CONTROLLED BY. AND SO, THIS--
I'M SURE WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THIS. I EXPERIENCED THIS
EVEN WITH MY HUSBAND IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS. HIS NEED TO CONTROL,
OUT OF FEAR, WHICH YOU TALK ABOUT IN YOUR BOOK. IT WAS HUGE FOR
ME TO LEARN THAT. HE WAS OPERATING OUT OF FEAR. SO,
THAT MADE HIM HOLD TIGHTER,
WHICH MADE ME WANNA BACK OFF AND SAY,
"NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, I'M NOT DOING THAT WITH YOU."
AND SO, THAT, I DON'T LIKE. AND THAT MADE ME HAVE
A REALLY DIFFICULT TIME LOVING HIM IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE. JOYCE: SOMETHING ELSE
THAT I DON'T LIKE, I JUST THOUGHT OF,
WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT UNIQUE, IS THAT IF SOMEBODY,
ALL OF A SUDDEN, THEY BLOW UP AT ME,
AND THEY'VE GOT THESE 25 THINGS THAT I'VE DONE OVER
THE PAST NUMBER OF YEARS. GINGER: HOLDING ONTO 'EM. JOYCE: AND I DIDN'T
KNOW. IT'S LIKE--
JAI: "I CAN'T FIX SOMETHING I DIDN'T KNOW."
JOYCE: I'M LIKE, "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?"
IT'S LIKE, "WELL, YOU DID THIS, AND YOU DID THAT," AND I'M LIKE,
"AND THAT BOTHERED YOU?" "WELL, WHY DIDN'T YOU
SAY SOMETHING THEN?" YOU KNOW, AND SO ALL THAT
TIME THEY'D BEEN ACTING JUST LIKE EVERYTHING'S
FINE BETWEEN US WHEN THEY'VE HAD THAT IN THEIR
HEART ALL ALONG. AND THAT'S NOT
AN HONEST RELATIONSHIP. JAI: LETTING IT FESTER
AND LETTING IT, YOU KNOW. I DON'T LIKE THAT EITHER. AND THE
N--
BUT THEN, PEOPLE, LIKE ME, IF LITTLE THINGS--AND I'M SURE
THAT THIS MAKES ME DIFFICULT TO LOVE TO SOME PEOPLE. LIKE, IF LITTLE THINGS
DO KINDA AGGRAVATE ME, I DON'T SAY EVERY LITTLE THING,
BUT I AM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE LIKE, "HEY, THAT HURT
MY FEELINGS." SO, I DON'T--
YOU KNOW--AND I'M SURE THAT ANNOYS PEOPLE AND MAKES
PEOPLE THINK I'M COMPLAINING OR NIT-PICKY. BUT I DO LIKE--BECAUSE I DON'T
WANT IT TO FESTER, AND THEN, EVERY TIME YOU'RE--
I'M AROUND YOU, THEN YOU DO SOMETHING ELSE,
AND IT JU
ST PILES AND PILES AND PILES. I AM ONE OF THOSE
PEOPLE THAT ARE LIKE, "IT'S NOT A HUGE DEAL,
BUT WHEN YOU SAID THAT, THAT DID KINDA RUB ME
THE WRONG WAY, YOU KNOW? AND SO, I COULD SEE
HOW I CAN BE DIFFICULT. JOYCE: AND YET, THE OTHER
SIDE OF THAT IS, IS THE BIBLE SAYS THAT LOVE IS NOT TOUCHY. SO, YOU HAVE TO FIND
A BALANCE IN THAT OTHERWISE-- JAI: EVERYTHING WILL
GET ON MY NERVES, HUH? JOYCE: YEAH. JAI: "I DIDN'T LIKE THAT. I DIDN'T LIKE THAT EITHER. I DIDN'T LIKE THAT."
JOYCE: WHAT ABOUT YOU, G
INGER? WHO DO YOU HAVE A HARD
TIME WITH BESIDES ME? [LADIES LAUGHING] GINGER: YOU SAID
NO SPECIFIC NAMES. [LADIES LAUGHING] JOYCE: WAIT A MINUTE. YOU DIDN'T DENY IT. [LADIES LAUGHING] GINGER: YOU KNOW I LOVE YOU,
MS. JOYCE. NO, I HAVE SO MANY SIMILAR ONES. AS I'M LISTENING TO EACH
ONE OF YOU, I'M LIKE, "YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. THAT PERSON'S REALLY HARD TOO."
SO, YOU BEGIN TO REALIZE, "WOW, I'VE GOT
A LOT OF PROBLEMS." [LADIES LAUGHING] ERIN: "I DON'T THINK
I LIKE ANYBODY." GINGER: BECAUSE THE PEOPLE
W
HO ARE NEGATIVE--NEGATIVITY JUST POURS OUT OF SOME PEOPLE,
AND I DO HAVE A REALLY DIFFICULT TIME WITH THAT. IT'S LIKE, "FIND SOMETHING
TO BE GRATEFUL FOR. I THINK OF A SOLUTION
INSTEAD OF A PROBLEM." I MEAN, THOSE ARE ALL THINGS
THAT ARE REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME. AND IT IS INTERESTING HOW, LIKE,
WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, JAI, THE THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT
TO US ARE OFTEN THE THINGS THAT ANNOY OTHER PEOPLE,
YOU KNOW? SO, I DON'T LIKE TO NOT
DEAL WITH THINGS. I AM A CONFRONTER. SO, I DON'T LIKE WHEN
SOM
EONE'S JUST GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING
AND NOT FIND A WAY TO FIX IT. I DON'T ENJOY PEOPLE
WHO DON'T LISTEN. ERIN: I DON'T ENJOY
THAT EITHER. [LADIES LAUGHING] JOYCE: I DON'T ENJOY
PEOPLE WHO TALK TOO MUCH. [LADIES LAUGHING] GINGER: EXACTLY. JAI: ANY EXTREME. GINGER: SO, THERE ARE
SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS. AND I THINK DIGGING INTO SOME
OF THOSE PRACTICALITIES OF, "OKAY, WHY?"
LIKE, WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT MIKE, "WHY DOES THIS BOTHER
ME SO MUCH AND HOW CAN I HANDLE IT DIFFERENTLY? IT DOESN'T ME
AN THAT
I'M GONNA LOVE IT, BUT I CAN LOVE THE PERSON
WHO'S DOING IT, AND MAYBE, FIND A WAY
TO WORK THROUGH IT. JOYCE: BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. IT IS VERY GOOD TO EXAMINE
YOUR OWN HEART ABOUT "WHY DOES THIS BOTHER
ME SO MUCH?" AND A LOT OF TIMES
THE ONLY ANSWER IS, IS BECAUSE I'M NOT LIKE THAT. AND SO, WE HAVE THIS PRIDE
PROBLEM THAT SAYS, "THE WAY I BEHAVE IS THE WAY
EVERYBODY SHOULD BEHAVE." AND THAT'S WHAT GOD HAD
TO REALLY DEAL WITH ME ABOUT. I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW,
"WELL, I'M QUICK AT EVERYTHING. AND
YOU'RE SLOW,
AND I'M THIS, AND YOU'RE THAT." AND I HAD TO REALIZE THAT GOD
LOVES ALL OF US THE SAME. AND HE CREATED
US VERY DIFFERENTLY. AND WE CAN'T HAVE JUDGMENTAL
ATTITUDES TOWARD ONE ANOTHER AND BE WALKING IN LOVE. ERIN: I HAD THIS THOUGHT,
JUST RECENTLY, BECAUSE I WAS THINKING,
"HOW CAN ALL OF US, SPECIFICALLY CHRISTIANS,"
WHO, WE ALL HAVE, LIKE, THE SAME GOAL AND THE SAME VISION,
WE LIKE--WE LOVE JESUS AND WE WANNA
BE GOOD TO HIS PEOPLE, THAT'S THE SAME,
"HOW CAN WE ALL THINK SO DIFFERENTL
Y
AND THINK WE'RE ALL RIGHT?" LIKE, WHAT IS MISSING HERE? GINGER: THAT IS SO TRUE. ERIN: RIGHT? I JUST DON'T GET IT. AND SO, I KIND OF HAD
THIS REVELATION. LIKE, EVERYBODY COMES
TO THE TABLE WITH THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVE,
WITH THEIR OWN PERSONALITY, THEIR OWN LIFE EXPERIENCE,
AND EVERYTHING THAT I FEEL IS BASED OFF OF HOW
I WAS CREATED AND WHAT I'VE EXPERIENCED IN MY LIFE. SO, THEREFORE, I THINK I'M RIGHT
BECAUSE OF MY EXPERIENCE. BUT MINE IS SO DIFFERENT
THAN YOURS. SO, OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE HUMANS. WE
'RE GONNA BRING THOSE
THINGS TO THE TABLE. GINGER: THAT REMINDS
ME OF A VERSE THAT I LOOKED UP FOR ME
BECAUSE IT'S DEFINITELY ONE OF MY PROBLEMS,
IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. ERIN: I DIDN'T MEAN
TO SHAKE MY-- "YEAH, IT IS ONE OF YOUR
PROBLEMS, IT IS." GINGER: YOU CAN. CUZ YOU KNOW ME WELL ENOUGH,
YOU CAN JUST LAY IT OUT THERE. IS I DO WANT PEOPLE
TO SEE WHY I'M RIGHT. IT'S NOT JUST ENOUGH
TO BE RIGHT. AND I WANT THEM TO UNDERSTAND. JAI: "AND THIS
IS WHY I'M RIGHT." ERIN: THERE'S PROOF. GINGER:
SO, THERE'S
A BIBLE VERSE. IT'S "FOOLS FIND NO PLEASURE
IN UNDERSTANDING, BUT DELIGHT IN AIRING
THEIR OWN OPINIONS." THAT'S IN PROVERBS. JOYCE: I READ THAT RECENTLY. GINGER: AND I THOUGHT,
"WOW, THAT IS SO GOOD." I CAN BE THAT FOOL WHO
IS JUST DELIGHTING IN MAKING SURE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT
I BELIEVE IN'S RIGHT, INSTEAD OF DELIGHTING
IN UNDERSTANDING ONE ANOTHER AND LEARNING
SO MUCH FROM EACH OTHER. AND SO, YOU KNOW,
I HAVE TO REALLY PHYSICALLY TAKE A STEP BACK AND SAY,
"WHAT DO I NEED TO DO IN THIS
SITUATION? IS IT TIME TO SHUT MY MOUTH?"
YOU KNOW, "IS IT TIME TO ASK MORE QUESTIONS OF THEM
AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT IS THAT THEY'RE
FEELING A LITTLE BIT MORE?" OR IS THIS A TIME THAT I NEED
TO STAND UP AND BE VOCAL AND SAY, "THIS IS IMPORTANT."
SO, YEAH, I'M NOT GREAT AT THAT, SOMETIMES. JOYCE: THAT'S WHY STUDYING
ALL THE SPECIFIC ASPECTS OF LOVE IN 1 CORINTHIANS 13
IS REALLY SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID TO JAI:
"LOVE IS NOT TOUCHY, LOVE IS NOT RUDE."
IT ALSO SAYS, "LOVE GI
VES UP ITS RIGHT TO BE RIGHT."
GINGER: OUCH! ERIN: EW, THAT'S A TOUGH ONE! I DON'T LIKE IT. GINGER: I DON'T THINK
THAT ONE'S IN MY BIBLE. [LADIES LAUGHING] JAI: WHICH VERSION
IS THAT ONE? I DON'T WANT IT. ERIN: YOURS HAS THAT
CROSSED OUT IN SHARPIE. JOYCE: I DON'T KNOW,
MAYBE IT'S THE JOYCE VERSION. [LADIES LAUGHING] JOYCE: BUT, OBVIOUSLY,
YOU KNOW, WE ALL GO THROUGH THAT. WE WANNA BE--
AND HOW MANY ARGUMENTS DO PEOPLE HAVE JUST TRYING
TO PROVE THAT THEY'RE RIGHT? AND MY OLDEST SON, DAVID,
WAS V
ERY MUCH LIKE THAT. AND HE JUST CAUSED SO MANY
ARGUMENTS BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO PROVE HE WAS RIGHT. AND AS HE GOT A LITTLE
BIT OLDER, I REMEMBER, HE SAID TO ME, ONE DAY, HE SAID,
"YOU KNOW, I THINK I'VE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THAT BEING
RIGHT IS HIGHLY OVERRATED." GINGER: YEAH. JOYCE: IT'S LIKE,
YOU THINK YOU'VE WON... ERIN: YEAH. JOYCE: BUT IN GOD'S EYES,
YOU'VE LOST. WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND. AND GOD WILL HELP YOU WITH THAT. IF YOU JUST--I JUST ENCOURAGE
PEOPLE WATCHING TO TRY THAT THE NEXT TIME Y
OU HAVE A BAD
REACTION TO SOMEBODY, OR EVEN JUST TO SAY, "NOW,
WHY DON'T I LIKE THAT PERSON?" GINGER: I HAD
THAT EXPERIENCE. BECAUSE IT'S VERY UNLIKE
ME TO NATURALLY NOT LIKE SOMEONE FROM THE GET-GO. USUALLY I NEED A GOOD REASON. BUT THERE'S THIS ONE PERSON,
AND RIGHT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING--
JAI: IS IT ME? [LADIES LAUGHING] GINGER: IT'S NOT YOU. JOYCE: WE'RE ALL AFRAID
IT'S US. GINGER: IT'S NOT YOU,
IT'S ERIN. JAI: PHEW! [LADIES LAUGHING] ERIN: JOYCE AND I WERE BOTH
LIKE, "GOOD TO KNOW." GINGE
R: NO, NO, NO,
NOT AT ALL. I'VE LOVED YOU ALL FROM
THE VERY FIRST START. BUT THIS ONE PERSON,
AND IT SHOCKED ME, LIKE, "WHY DO I DISLIKE THIS
PERSON SO STRONGLY?" AND THE THINGS THAT THEY SAID,
AND THE THINGS THAT THEY DID, I WAS JUST LIKE, "I'VE GOT TO
GET OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THIS PERSON BEFORE,"
YOU KNOW, "I EXPLODE." AND I FINALLY
REALIZED THAT THEY, VERY STRONGLY, IN THE WAY
THAT THEY LOOKED AND ACTED, REMINDED ME OF SOMEONE
ELSE THAT HAD HURT ME, THAT I HAD A VERY DIFFICULT
RELATIONSHIP
WITH. AND ONCE I GOT THAT,
IT REALLY DID HELP. IT DIDN'T MAKE
IT COMPLETELY GO AWAY. LET'S BE HONEST. BUT IT TAUGHT ME HOW TO LOVE
THEM IN SPITE OF THE THINGS THAT WERE HARD TO LOVE. JOYCE: YEAH, I HAD
THE SAME SITUATION WITH, IF I CAME UP ACROSS ANYBODY
THAT HAD A PERSONALITY LIKE MY DAD'S, I INSTANTLY,
JUST DIDN'T LIKE THEM. OR BECAUSE I WAS
SO AFRAID OF HIM, I WOULD AUTOMATICALLY START
BEING AFRAID OF THAT PERSON. AND SO, WE DO. IT'S AMAZING, REALLY,
THE DAMAGE THAT'S DONE TO A PERSON IF THEY
'RE
MISTREATED IN THEIR CHILDHOOD. AND IT JUST TAKES TIME
AND WORKING WITH GOD TO GET OVER IT. AND THE ONLY WAY
YOU'RE GONNA GET OVER IT IS TO KNOW THE TRUTH,
BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SETS YOU FREE. AND SO, YOU HAVE
TO BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF, ABOUT YOURSELF,
AND REALLY PRAY THAT GOD WILL SHOW YOU,
NOT JUST WHAT'S WRONG WITH SOMEBODY ELSE,
BUT "WHY AM I RESPONDING THAT WAY?"
IF I'M SUPPOSED TO LOVE EVERYBODY,
AND BE ABLE TO FORGIVE THEM, AND BE PATIENT,
AND PRAY FOR THEM, INSTEAD OF BEING MAD AT THEM
,
THEN WHAT'S IN ME THAT'S PREVENTING ME FROM DOING THAT? ERIN: I APPRECIATE YOU
SO MUCH SHARING THAT, FOR SO MANY REASONS. BUT FOR SOMEONE WHO
DIDN'T HAVE TRAUMA AS A CHILD, LIKE, I WAS JUST SO BLESSED
TO GROW UP IN A REALLY GREAT HOME. AND SO, I DON'T HAVE
THAT PERSPECTIVE. TO BE AROUND PEOPLE WHO HAVE
TRAUMA--AND EVEN MY HUSBAND HAD SOME STUFF HAPPEN
AS A CHILD THAT I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT UNTIL WE WENT
TO COUNSELING THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS. AND HEARING HIM TALK ABOUT
HIS EXPERIENCE GAVE ME SUCH
EMPATHY THAT I DIDN'T KNOW
I NEEDED TO HAVE. AND I'M SO APPRECIATIVE OF YOU
SHARING BECAUSE IT HELPS PEOPLE, LIKE MYSELF, KNOW THAT THERE
IS SO MUCH MORE HAPPENING, HERE. LIKE, HE REALLY
IS A HURT PERSON, AND NO WONDER
HE IS ACTING THE WAY HE IS. AGAIN, IT DOESN'T
EXCUSE BEHAVIOR. BUT I NEED TO NOT THINK
SO MUCH ABOUT MYSELF THAT I'M FORGETTING ABOUT
SOMEBODY ELSE'S PAIN. AND I THINK THAT'S SO IMPORTANT
THAT WE TALK ABOUT THAT. JOYCE: THAT'S VERY
TRUE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BECAUSE I'VE HAD A NUMB
ER
OF PEOPLE THAT TELL ME, "I'M MARRIED TO JOYCE."
YOU KNOW, I'LL SHARE MY ISSUES AND MY PROBLEMS,
AND THE WAY I USED TO BE, AND HOW GOD HELP ME,
AND THEY'RE STILL DEALING WITH THAT IN THEIR SPOUSE. SO, HEARING ME TALK
ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE IS HOPE OF CHANGE, YOU KNOW. JAI: I HAVE SOMETHING
FUNNY CUZ LIKE, I'VE EXPRESSED THAT,
YOU KNOW, I'M DATING AGAIN, AND WE'VE ALREADY
GONE THROUGH THAT. WELL, THIS ONE GUY I WAS
DATING, WELL, I TRIED TO-- I WAS JUST LIKE...[BUZZER]
NOT GONNA HAPPEN. [BUZZ
ER]...NOT GONNA HAPPEN. AND I HAD A FRIEND OF MINE
THAT WAS JUST LIKE, "YOU'RE NOT EVEN GIVING
YOUR HEART A CHANCE TO OPEN UP AND LOVE HIM
BECAUSE HE DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE PICTURE YOU'VE
PAINTED AS TO WHAT YOUR COMEBACK GOIN' LOOK LIKE."
JOYCE: OH, SO MANY PEOPLE DO THAT. JAI: YOU KNOW,
LIKE I HAVE THIS-- BECAUSE I'M JUST LIKE,
"I HAVE BEEN THROUGH ALL OF THIS STUFF
WITH THAT LAST MAN," YOU KNOW, LIKE, YOU KNOW. LIKE THIS NEXT ONE,
"HE'S GONNA TO DO THIS. HE'S GOING TO HAVE A YACHT."
NO, NOT THA
T FAR. BUT IT WOULDN'T
BE BAD IF HE DID. BUT I'M JUST SAYING, LIKE,
ALL OF THESE--THIS, LIKE, LIST OF THINGS THAT I WANT MY NEXT
TO BE OR TO LOOK LIKE, THAT THIS GUY DID NOT,
LIKE, EH--IT'S LIKE...EH. YOU KNOW, THAT A FRIEND
OF MINE REALLY HAD TO SAY, "JAI, SHAME ON YOU," YOU KNOW? LIKE, "SHAME ON YOU
FOR NOT EVEN, IS HE KIND TO YOU WHEN--YOU KNOW,
WHEN YOU GO ON DATES WITH HIM?" I'M LIKE, "YEAH. I MEAN, HE'S ACTUALLY
THE KINDEST I'VE EVER HAD," YOU KNOW? AND THEY'RE LIKE,
"WHAT REALLY MATTERS?"
JOYCE: WE JUDGE WAY TOO
MUCH ON APPEARANCES... JAI: EXACTLY. JOYCE: AND GOD
LOOKS AT THE HEART. I KNOW SOMEBODY, RIGHT NOW,
THAT WILL BE GETTING MARRIED IN A FEW MONTHS AND LOVES
LOVES, LOVES, LOVES, LOVES THE GUY SHE'S GONNA MARRY. BUT SHE SAID, "MY FIRST LOOK
AT HIM WOULD HAVE NOT BEEN ANYBODY THAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN
EVEN REMOTELY INTERESTED IN." BUT WHEN SHE OPENED UP HER
HEART AND GAVE HIM A CHANCE, HE HAD ALL THE QUALITIES THAT
SHE WANTED IN A PERSON, EXCEPT HE DIDN'T LOOK THE WAY
SHE THOUG
HT SHE WANTED HER SPOUSE TO LOOK. SO, HOW MANY PEOPLE
AND EMOTIONS MARRY SOMEBODY BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY LOOK,
BASED ON FEELINGS? AND THEY REALLY DON'T
HAVE A HANDLE ON WHAT TRUE LOVE IS AT ALL. AND SO, WHEN THE OTHER
THINGS START COMING OUT, THEN THAT GOOD LOOKING
PERSON DOESN'T LOOK SO GOOD ANYMORE. GINGER: WELL, AND ALSO
THAT LEADS TO SO MUCH OF THE PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD. RIGHT NOW, PEOPLE WHO ARE
JUDGING ONE ANOTHER BECAUSE THEY LOOK DIFFERENT. OR, YOU KNOW, THEIR SKIN
IS A DIFFERENT COLOR,
OR THEY DON'T RESPOND
IN THE SAME WAY AS I WOULD TO SOMETHING. JOYCE: OR THEY DO SOMETHING
YOU DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD DO. GINGER: EXACTLY. SO, I THINK THIS CONVERSATION
IS SO MUCH BIGGER THAN JUST OUR RELATIONSHIPS,
WHICH ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT, BUT IT'S SOCIETAL. IT'S ABOUT CULTURE, RIGHT NOW. JOYCE: IT REALLY IS. GINGER: AND THERE ARE
A LOT OF CHOICES THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE THAT SAYS,
"I NEED TO KNOW WHO THIS PERSON IS BEFORE I DECIDE,"
YOU KNOW, "IF I'M GONNA BE THEIR FRIEND OR NOT
BEFORE I WRI
TE THEM OFF." JOYCE: RIGHT. JAI: IT'S JUST SO MUCH
DIVISION, AND YOU KINDA TOUCHED ON IT, ERIN. THERE'S SO MUCH
DIVISION IN THE CHURCH. LIKE, I MEAN, YOU KNOW,
YOU GOT THE DIFFERENT DENOMINATIONS WITHIN
CHRISTIANITY THAT ARE WARRING AGAINST EACH OTHER. AND IT'S JUST--IT'S LIKE,
SO IT DEFINITELY GOES BEYOND ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIPS,
HUSBANDS, DATING, AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IT GOES--IT'S BIG. IT'S ABOUT, CAN I LOVE
MY NEIGHBOR WHEN WE DISAGREE ON THINGS THAT
WE BELIEVE THE BIBLE SAYS? BECAUSE WE HAVE
PEOPLE
THAT ARE BELIEVING CERTAIN THINGS THAT--TWO DIFFERENT
PEOPLE THAT ARE DEVOUT CHRISTIANS THAT BELIEVE
THIS SCRIPTURE SAYS THIS, IT'S THEIR INTERPRETATION
BASED OFF OF THEIR EXPERIENCE AND THEIR REALITY. LIKE, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY WILL
LITERALLY DISLIKE EACH OTHER. AND I'VE SEEN IT IN THE CHURCH
WHERE THEY WOULD ALMOST DISLIKE EACH OTHER
BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THIS AND THE OTHER
PERSON BELIEVES THIS, BUT WE'RE BOTH CHRISTIAN. LIKE, WE'RE BOTH--
WE BOTH LOVE JESUS. AND SO, THIS IS A CONVERSATI
ON
THAT WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT AND BRIDGE THE GAP ON,
HOW DO WE LOVE WHEN WE DISAGREE,
HOW DO WE AGREE TO DISAGREE AND STILL SAY, "YOU'RE STILL
MY BROTHER OR SISTER IN CHRIST," YOU KNOW,
HOW DO WE DO THAT? JOYCE: SO, WE COULD TALK
ABOUT WHAT I JUST DID, IF YOU WANT TO? ERIN: LET'S DO IT. GINGER: WHAT DID YOU JUST DO? JAI: CUZ PEOPLE SURE
DON'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE ABOUT TO SAY! JOYCE: WELL, I DON'T LIKE
STIFF, STARCHY, JUDGMENTAL, CRITICAL, RELIGIOUS, CHRISTIANS. ERIN: AMEN, JOYCE! JOYCE
: PEOPLE WHO
JUST--THEY'VE GOT A RULE ABOUT EVERYTHING
AND IT'S THEIR OWN RULES. AND ACTUALLY, WHEN JESUS
SAID ON THE CROSS, "IT IS FINISHED," HE MEANT
THAT OLD SYSTEM OF LEGALISM. NOW, OBVIOUSLY, WE STILL
FOLLOW THE MORAL LAWS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT. BUT ALL OF THE RULES
AND REGULATIONS, AND THE DIETARY LAWS,
AND ALL THESE, I MEAN, THERE WERE CERTAIN MATERIALS
YOU COULDN'T WEAR TOGETHER, AND SACRIFICES,
AND YOU COULDN'T-- EVERYTHING WAS A,
YOU COULDN'T DO, YOU KNOW? AND SO, A LOT OF PEOPLE, TODAY
--
WELL, SOME PEOPLE. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT A LOT. THEY REALLY BELIEVE,
THAT LIKE, HAVING A TATTOO IS VERY SINFUL. GINGER: AND THERE'S
A SCRIPTURE IN THE BIBLE, RIGHT, YOU THINK THEY'RE GETTING
THAT FROM? JOYCE: WELL, IN LEVITICUS,
AND I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT REFERENCE,
IT SAYS THAT YOU SHOULD NOT CUT YOUR BODY FOR THE DEAD,
FOR LIKE, SOME KIND OF REMEMBRANCE FOR THE DEAD. SO, RIGHT THERE'S YOUR MOTIVE. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE OFTEN DON'T
LOOK BEYOND THE MOTIVE. SO, THERE IS A SCRIPTURE
IN ISAIAH SOMEWHERE
, AND I DON'T--
I WISH I WOULD HAVE BROUGHT THESE REFERENCES WITH ME. IN THE AMPLIFIED BIBLE,
IT SAYS THAT SOME OF THESE PEOPLE--NOT THE ONES WHO
DISAGREE, BUT THAT PEOPLE WOULD GET TATTOOED,
OR ENGRAVED ON THEIR HAND, "I BELONG TO THE LORD,"
AND I JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS SO NEAT. YOU KNOW, TO ACTUALLY,
PUT A SIGN ON YOUR BODY FOR THE DEVIL TO HAVE
TO LOOK AT ALL THE TIME. GINGER: THAT'S COMMITMENT. JOYCE: YOU KNOW,
BECAUSE THE BIBLE DOES SAY IN EPHESIANS THAT
WE ARE MARKED AND BRANDED BY THE HOLY
SPIRIT AS GOD'S OWN. SO, ACTUALLY,
WE DO HAVE A TATTOO ON US THAT THE DEVIL CAN SEE,
EVERY ONE OF US, IT'S JUST NOT ONE WITH INK. SO, I RECENTLY,
WAS IN A SITUATION WHERE ALL THE STARS LINED UP,
AND I GOT TWO TATTOOS. [LADIES RESPONDING] GINGER: NOT ONE, BUT TWO. JOYCE: I GOT ONE ON MY BACK. I HAVE A CROSS
ON MY BACK THAT SAYS, "I BELONG TO JESUS."
AND I DIDN'T--YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T PUT IT WHERE
EVERYBODY COULD SEE IT. IT'S MY OWN BUSINESS. IT'S BETWEEN ME AND GOD. AND I JUST WANTED TO MAKE
THAT
STATEMENT THAT I'M HIS. AND THEN, I HAD ONE PUT
ON MY FOOT THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE THAT SAYS, "LOVE."
AND I DID THAT TO ALWAYS REMIND ME TO WALK IN LOVE. GINGER: THAT'S GREAT. JOYCE: AND SO, I THOUGHT--
I'VE ONLY SHARED IT IN ONE MEETING, AND I DIDN'T KNOW
WHAT I'D GET, BUT I MEAN, PEOPLE GOT UP ON THEIR FEET,
THEY WERE CLAPPING AND CHEERING. NOW, I KNOW THAT WE WILL
GET SOME LETTERS, AND SOME PHONE CALLS,
AND SOME COMMENTS THAT PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT IS SINFUL. BUT YOU CAN'T FIND THAT
UNDER THE NEW CO
VENANT. AND JESUS LOOKS
AT A PERSON'S HEART. AND SO, IT'S WHY PEOPLE
DO THINGS THAT MATTERS SO MUCH TO HIM. AND SO--YOU KNOW,
I HAD AN EXPERIENCE, ONE TIME. I WALKED IN A STARBUCKS
AND THERE WAS A GIRL THERE WAITING ON US. THERE WERE SOME
OTHER PEOPLE WITH ME. AND HER HAIR WAS ABOUT
FOUR DIFFERENT COLORS. AND GOING IN ABOUT FIVE
DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. JAI: SOUNDS LIKE
MY KIND OF GAL. JOYCE: SHE HAD TATTOOS
AND PIERCINGS EVERYWHERE YOU COULD HAVE THEM. WELL, I IMMEDIATELY--
MY RELIGIOSITY, YOU CAN
FEEL IT STAND UP. IT'S LIKE, "OH, THIS GIRL
HAS GOT ISSUES. SHE HAS GOT--
SHE'S ONE OF THOSE WI--" YOU KNOW. ERIN: "THOSE WILD ONES."
GINGER: YOU JUST START BUILDING A PICTURE
AROUND WHO THEY ARE. JOYCE: RIGHT. BUT THERE WAS A MAN WITH
US FROM ENGLAND, WHO WAS MORE MATURE IN THAT AREA,
AND HE HAD GOTTEN OVER ALL THAT A LONG TIME AGO. SO, HE JUST KINDA STEPPED
AROUND ME A LITTLE BIT, AND HE JUST SAID,
"I LOVE YOUR HAIR. HOW DO YOU GET IT TO DO THAT?"
AND HE JUST STRUCK UP THIS GREAT CONVERSATION
WITH HER. AND SO, REALLY, A LOT
OF TIMES WE, AS CHRISTIANS, SAY THAT WE WANT REVIVAL. BUT THE TRUTH IS,
MOST CHURCHES, IF THEY HAD A REVIVAL,
THEY WOULD BE SO JUDGMENTAL ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT CAME IN. BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT
ALL GONNA BE PRETTY LIKE YOU AND LOOK LIKE YOU. AND SOME OF 'EM MAY HAVE
TATTOOS AND THEY MAY HAVE PIERCINGS, AND--BUT THAT
DOESN'T REALLY TELL YOU ANYTHING ABOUT THEIR HEART. ERIN: I THINK THAT'S SO GOOD. IT REMINDS ME OF WHEN
I WATCHED "THE CHOSEN." AND SO, YOU GOT TO SEE--
J
OYCE: THE SERIES. ERIN: YEAH, THE SERIES
"THE CHOSEN." GINGER: ABOUT JESUS. ERIN: ABOUT JESUS. SORRY, I ONLY GAVE
YOU LIKE ONE WORD. EVERYBODY'S TO GUESS
WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. JAI: I DID NOT. I SAID, "'THE CHOSEN,'
GIRL, WHAT'S THAT?" ERIN: JOYCE AND GINGER
HELPED ME OUT THERE ON THAT ONE. JOYCE: WELL, IT'S GOOD. YOU SHOULD WATCH IT. ERIN: WATCHING JESUS
AND HOW HE RELATED TO PEOPLE. THEY DID SUCH A GOOD
JOB OF DEPICTING HIM. AND IT MADE ME SEE HIM
IN A WHOLE DIFFERENT WAY. THAT IT ISN'T--
HE'
S NOT LETTING YOU GET AWAY WITH THINGS--IF YOUR
HEART'S NOT IN THE RIGHT SPOT. BUT HE LOVED PEOPLE WHERE
THEY ARE, AND HE CARED MORE ABOUT THEIR HEART AND WHAT
THEY WERE GOING THROUGH, AND WHY THEY DID IT. THAT JUST REALLY STOOD
OUT TO ME IN THAT SERIES. AND I THINK THAT, THAT PART
GETS GLOSSED OVER A LOT, IN THE WORLD THAT WE LIVE IN. AND I THINK IN THE CHURCH,
SPECIFICALLY, WE FORGET THAT IT IS THE MOTIVE,
AND IT'S NOT, "DID YOU DO YOUR LIST--LIKE, DID YOU CHECK YOUR
LIST OFF FOR TODAY TO MAKE
YOU A REALLY GOOD CHRISTIAN? AND IF NOT, WELL,
THEN YOU DON'T QUALIFY." JOYCE: AND IF WE HAVE
THE WRONG ATTITUDE, WE WRITE PEOPLE OFF... ERIN: WE DO. JOYCE: AND MAKE DECISIONS
ABOUT THEM WHEN WE DON'T EVEN KNOW THEM AT ALL. WE DON'T GIVE PEOPLE
AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET TO KNOW THEM. AND ONE OF THE STATEMENTS
I MADE IN MY BOOK ON LOVING PEOPLE THAT'S HARD TO LOVE
IS WE NEED TO LEARN TO LOVE PEOPLE AS THEY ARE,
NOT THE WAY WE WANT THEM TO BE. AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE
RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING, BUT
YOU'RE CERTAINLY NOT GONNA
CHANGE 'EM BY HATING THEM. SO, WE HAVE TO SET THE EXAMPLE. AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT DAVE DID FOR ME, THAT IS PART OF THE LARGE
REASON WHY I'M SITTING HERE TODAY, IS HE LOVED ME, AS IS. AND HE PRAYED FOR ME TO CHANGE. BUT HE KNEW THAT
HE COULD NOT CHANGE ME. SO, HE DIDN'T TRY TO. AND WE'RE ALWAYS TRYING
TO CHANGE PEOPLE. AND THE MORE YOU TRY TO FIT
SOMEBODY INTO YOUR MOLD OF WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO BE,
THE MORE THEY CAN'T STAND YOU. ESPECIALLY, IF IT'S SOMEBOD
Y
LIKE YOU SAID, WHO DOESN'T WANNA BE CONTROLLED. AND I'M THE SAME WAY. IT'S LIKE... DAVE LOVES TO HELP ME. AND HE TELLS ME, EVER--
YOU KNOW, I WAS GONE LAST WEEK, FOR A WEEK. AND HE PICKED ME
UP AT THE AIRPORT. AND I WASN'T IN THE CAR THREE
MINUTES WHEN HE HAD ALREADY GIVEN ME THREE PIECES OF ADVICE. AND I SAID,
"I DON'T WANT YOUR ADVICE. I DON'T--"
GINGER: I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU SURVIVED
THAT WEEK WITHOUT HIM. JOYCE: "I JUST DON'T
WANT YOUR ADVICE." HE SAID, "I'M JUST TRYING
TO HELP YOU." I SAID
, "I DON'T WANNA
BE HELPED. I WANT YOU TO JUST LET
ME MAKE MY OWN DECISIONS." [LADIES LAUGHING] JOYCE: WE GO THROUGH
THAT ALL THE TIME. HE JUST WANTS TO HELP ME. AND I--
LIKE, THIS MORNING, I WAS USING ONE OF THESE
LITTLE THINGS THAT YOU PICK OUT THREADS WITH. YOU KNOW, AND I WAS
TRYING TO GET A TAG OUT OF A PIECE OF CLOTHES. AND HE WAS LIKE,
"DON'T DO THAT LIKE THAT!" HE SAID, "YOU'RE DOING
IT TOWARD YOUR FACE." I SAID, "I HAVE BEEN DOING
THIS FOR YEARS. I AM NOT GONNA STICK MY EYE."
GINGER: "Y
OU'LL POKE YOUR EYE OUT."
JOYCE: OF COURSE, AT THIS POINT, WE'VE BEEN
MARRIED SO LONG, WE JUST MAKE A BIG JOKE OUT OF IT. GINGER: WELL, I LOVE
THE FACT--AND YOU MENTIONED THIS IN THE BOOK,
AND YOU MENTIONED IT EARLIER THAT LOVING PEOPLE DOESN'T
MEAN JUSTIFYING WHAT THEY DID OR WHAT THEY DO. YOU KNOW, MAYBE YOU'VE
BEEN HURT, BUT STILL LOVING THEM IN SPITE OF THAT. AND IT ALSO DOESN'T MEAN YOU
HAVE TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM NECESSARILY,
AND IT DOESN'T EVEN MEAN THAT YOU HAVE TO LIKE THEM. Y
OU CAN LOVE THEM,
AND BE KIND TO THEM, AND TREAT THEM IN A LOVING
WAY WITHOUT LIKING THEM. YOU KNOW, YOU THINK ABOUT
PEOPLE IN THE WORLD THAT, MAYBE, YOU'RE HAVING A HARD
TIME LOVING, RIGHT NOW. IT MAY NOT BE THAT
WAY A YEAR FROM NOW. LIKE, THERE WERE TIMES
IN MY KIDS' LIFE--AND I LOVE MY KIDS LIKE CRAZY,
BUT THERE WERE TIMES THAT I DID NOT LIKE THEM VERY WELL. AND I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW,
"I LOVE YOU SO MUCH, BUT I'M NOT LIKING YOU,
RIGHT NOW." AND I JUST THINK THAT'S KIND
OF A RELEASE TO PEOPLE
IS TO REALIZE THAT IT DOESN'T
MEAN THAT EVERYTHING'S PERFECT. PEOPLE DON'T HAVE
TO BE PERFECT TO LOVE THEM IN A GODLY WAY. JOYCE: AND GOD'S NOT
ASKING YOU TO BE ABUSED OR LET SOMEBODY
WALK ALL OVER YOU. BUT EVEN IF SOMEBODY--
EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO LEAVE SOMEBODY BECAUSE THEY
HAVE ABUSED YOU, YOU STILL NEED TO LOVE THEM. BUT WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT
FOR US TO GET THAT ON THIS PROGRAM. YOU DO EX--
JESUS LAID IT OUT SO PLAINLY. HE SAID YOU FORGIVE THEM,
YOU PRAY FOR THEM. YOU BLESS
AND DO NOT CURSE THEM. AND TO BLESS MEANS TO SPEAK
WELL OF AND TO CURSE MEANS TO SPEAK EVIL OF. SO, YOU HAVE TO STOP TELLING
EVERYBODY WHAT THEY DID TO YOU. YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT
THEM IN A BAD WAY. AND IF YOUR ENEMY'S HUNGRY,
YOU FEED HIM. AND IF HE'S THIRSTY,
YOU GIVE 'EM SOMETHING TO DRINK. SO, IT'S--
IT'S BECOME SO CLEAR, TO ME, THAT IF YOU HURT ME,
THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT MAYBE I DON'T CONFRONT YOU,
OR WE DON'T TALK ABOUT IT, BUT IF IT'S GETTING NOWHERE,
AND WE'RE JUST GONNA BE ARGUING,
IT'S
NOT MY PLACE TO HATE YOU. IT'S MY PLACE TO PRAY FOR YOU. AND IF YOU PRAY FOR SOMEBODY
ON A REGULAR BASIS THAT'S BEEN MEAN TO YOU,
YOU CANNOT KEEP HATING THEM VERY LONG. YOU WILL BE ABLE
TO FORGIVE THEM BECAUSE THAT PRAYER WILL WORK
SOMETHING IN YOUR HEART. SO, YOU PRAY FOR THE PERSON. YOU STOP TALKING BAD ABOUT THEM. AND YOU GET WILLING,
IF THEY HAVE A NEED AND YOU KNOW ABOUT IT,
THAT YOU WILL HELP MEET THAT NEED, NO MATTER
HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT IT. JAI: I'M GETTING--
I GET EMOTIONAL THINKING ABOUT
THIS, RIGHT? BECAUSE, LIKE, I'VE DONE
A LOT OF WORK TO TRY TO LIKE, REALLY LOVE, YOU KNOW,
LIKE THE PEOPLE THAT WERE A PART OF LIKE,
WHAT DESTROYED MY FAMILY, YOU KNOW? AND LIKE, I'M THINKING ABOUT,
I THINK, IT WAS CHAPTER 16. I THINK, LIKE--
AND THAT RESONATED, EVEN THE TITLE ALONE
IS "IT'S JUST TOO HARD." JOYCE: OR IT'S NOT FAIR. JAI: LIKE, YOU SEE, LIKE--
AND IT SAID: "SOME THINGS MAY BE HARD,
BUT THEY'RE NOT TOO HARD. AND I BELIEVE GOD ANOINTS
AND EMPOWERS HIS PEOPLE TO DO DIFFICULT THINGS
AT TIMES. IF WE BELIEVE IT'S TOO HARD,
WE QUIT BEFORE WE'VE EVEN TRIED."
AND SO, I WAS LIKE, "I CAN'T QUIT."
AND EVEN THOUGH-- IT'S BEEN--I'VE BEEN DIVORCED
NOW A YEAR; I STILL DON'T WANT TO SEE THE MISTRESS. I DON'T WANNA SEE HIM. I DON'T WANNA SEE HIS NEW WIFE. I DON'T WANNA SEE ANY OF IT. LIKE, AND THAT'S OKAY
TO HAVE THAT BOUNDARY. BUT IT'S SO FREEING TO ME,
AND I, OFTENTIMES, TAKE IT FOR GRANTED, YOU KNOW,
THAT WE'RE ABLE TO SIT HERE AND DISCUSS WHAT'S--
WITH YOU, YOU KNOW, LIKE, YOU'RE A G
ENERAL IN THE FAITH. LIKE, PEOPLE ALWAYS SAY THAT. AND I'M LIKE, "YES. AND SHE'S AMAZING. SHE'S COOL. SHE HAS CUTE LITTLE--"
JOYCE: "SHE HAS A TATTOO." [LADIES LAUGHING] JAI: I DIDN'T EVEN SAY THAT. I'M JUST LIKE, "SHE HAS
CUTE POLISH ON HER TOES OF LITTLE FLOWERS AND STUFF. LIKE, SHE'S SO FANCY,"
YOU KNOW, I LOVE IT. BUT JUST--
WHAT YOU JUST SHARED WITH THE TATTOO LIKE
AND HOW YOU SHARE-- LIKE, IT JUST SHOWS THAT
SOMEONE--IS AS MATURE AS YOU, CAN HONESTLY ADMIT WHEN YOU'RE--
WHEN YOU'RE HAVING
AN IMMATURE MOMENT AND JUDGING
SOMEONE FOR SOMETHING, BUT THAT YOU CAN ALSO
ALLOW YOURSELF TO KEEP GROWING AND CHANGING. AND THAT GIVES ME,
AND I'M SURE, A LOT OF PEOPLE, SO MUCH HOPE TO KNOW THAT
"YES, I STILL HAVE AREAS OF IMMATURITY, BUT IF SOMEONE
THAT'S A GENERAL LIKE JOYCE CAN SAY, 'YOU KNOW WHAT? GOD'S STILL WORKING
ON ME AND IMPROVING ME, BUT I HAVE TO DO THE WORK,'"
AND SOMETIMES, TAKE A BIG STEP, LIKE GOIN' AND GET A TATTOO. YOU KNOW, IT GIVES ME HOPE
TO KNOW THAT, I TOO, CAN LIKE, REA
LLY GET TO A PLACE
WHERE I REALLY DO, LIKE, I CAN REALLY LOVE HIM--
NOT IN THAT WAY. I AIN'T TRYING TO ROMANTICALLY
LOVE HIM AT ALL. BUT LIKE, LOVE HIM, AGAIN. JOYCE: BUT SEE, EVEN THE
FEELINGS THAT YOU'RE HAVING, YOU DON'T WANNA
BE AROUND THE MISTRESS, YOU DON'T--THERE'S REALLY--
GOD UNDERSTANDS ALL THAT AND--
BUT THAT'S NOT, NOT LOVING THEM. THE LOVING THEM
IS THE FORGIVING THEM. AND REALLY, YOU DO THAT
FOR YOUR OWN SAKE. I MEAN, YOU CAN STAY MAD
AT THEM "UNTIL THE COWS COME HOME," AS THEY SAY
,
AND IT'S NOT GONNA BOTHER THEM, YOU KNOW. JAI: RIGHT. JOYCE: SO, YOU FORGIVE
FOR YOUR OWN SAKE, SO YOU CAN HAVE SOME PEACE. THEY MAY NOT DESERVE
YOUR FORGIVENESS, BUT YOU DO DESERVE PEACE. YOU PRAY FOR THEM. PRAY FOR THEM TO BE HAPPY. PRAY FOR THEM TO HAVE
A GOOD RELATIONSHIP. JAI: JESUS. JOYCE: YEAH, JESUS, YEAH. [LADIES LAUGHING] JAI: [SCREAMS]. OKAY. JOYCE: BUT SEE,
WHEN WE PRAY FOR PEOPLE, IT'S NOT LIKE GOD'S GONNA
GIVE 'EM A BRAND-NEW HOUSE AND A BIG, FANCY CAR. PROBABLY THE FIRST THING
H
E'S GONNA GIVE 'EM IS SOME REVELATION ABOUT
WHAT THEY'VE TRULY DONE OR HOW THEY BEHAVED. AND YOU DON'T TALK BAD
ABOUT 'EM TO OTHER PEOPLE. AND IF THEY EVER DID HAVE
A REAL SERIOUS NEED, TO BE WILLING TO MEET
THAT NEED. AND I WENT THROUGH THAT. JAI: WHEW... JOYCE: I WENT THROUGH
THAT WITH MY MOM AND DAD WHO ABUSED ME. AND I JUST WANNA SAY THIS
FOR THE SAKE OF THE AUDIENCE, AND THIS WILL PROBABLY HELP YOU. I ENDED UP--GOD ASKED
ME TO TAKE CARE OF THEM BUT WE DON'T HAVE TIME
FOR THAT WHOLE STORY. B
UT THEY ENDED UP IN NURSING
HOME CARE FOR TEN YEARS WITH ME FOOTING THE BILL,
WHICH WAS NOT CHEAP. AND I WENT TO SEE THEM
EVERY OTHER WEEK, AND ONE OF MY DAUGHTERS
WENT THE ODD WEEKS. AND I CAN SIT HERE AND TELL
YOU THAT IN TEN YEARS THERE WAS NOT ONE TIME THAT
I WENT TO THAT NURSING HOME THAT I WANTED TO GO. I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE GOING. I DIDN'T ENJOY THE VISIT. BUT I KNEW IT WAS WHAT
GOD WANTED ME TO DO. AND THE THING THAT WE HAVE
TO GET THROUGH OUR HEADS IS JESUS DID NOT WANT
TO GO TO THE CROSS.
HE ASKED THE FATHER THREE TIMES
TO "TAKE THIS CUP FROM ME." BUT HE ALWAYS SAID,
"BUT I'LL DO YOUR WILL." AND SO, THAT'S THE THING. IF WE'RE EVER GONNA
GET RID OF THIS PROBLEM, IS WE HAVE TO STOP
LIVING BY HOW WE FEEL AND JUSTIFYING OUR FEELINGS,
AND SAY, "I'M GONNA LIVE IN OBEDIENCE."
I'VE BEEN-- THIS PAST WEEK,
IT'S LIKE EVERYTHING I'M LOOKING AT IS OBEDIENCE,
OBEDIENCE, OBEDIENCE, OBEDIENCE, OBEDIENCE. THAT'S THE ONLY WAY
WE PROVE OUR LOVE FOR GOD, IS BY OBEYING HIM. GINGER: THAT'S SO HARD
TO
WALK THROUGH. IT'S JUST SO DIFFICULT. AND I HAD A SITUATION,
A LOT OF YEARS AGO, AND THAT'S WHY GOD
WORKS THROUGH TIME IN A BEAUTIFUL WAY,
BUT IT WAS JUST SUCH A TERRIBLE SITUATION
AND SOMEONE WHO HURT ME VERY, VERY BADLY. JUST VERY PUBLICLY,
TOLD ALL KINDS OF LIES, AND IT WAS JUST A TERRIBLE,
HEART-WRENCHING EXPERIENCE BECAUSE THIS WAS SOMEONE
THAT I COUNTED AS A FRIEND. AND IT WAS JUST AWFUL. AND I WENT THROUGH SUCH
A LONG TIME OF ANGER AND BITTERNESS AND I--
THAT NAME WAS EVERYWHERE. THE NAM
E OF THIS PERSON
WAS LIKE, ALL I CAN THINK OF, YOU KNOW? AND YOU'RE JUST SO HURT
AND SO ANGRY. AND SO, AFTER A LONG TIME
OF THAT, I BEGAN TO LIKE, "GOD, I CAN'T KEEP THIS UP."
YOU KNOW, "I CAN'T BE WHO YOU WANT ME TO BE ANYMORE. I DON'T EVEN FEEL LIKE MYSELF."
AND SO, I STARTED LITTLE BY LITTLE, WHEN I COULD,
DOING SOME OF THOSE THINGS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. STOP TELLING EVERYBODY
ELSE ABOUT THAT PERSON, THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS. JOYCE: THAT'S A BIG STEP
RIGHT THERE. GINGER: IT WAS HARD. J
OYCE: BECAUSE EVERY
TIME YOU TALK ABOUT IT, YOU STIR IT UP YOURSELF. GINGER: YEAH. AND WHEN IT'S THAT MUCH
IN YOUR--THE FOREFRONT OF YOUR MIND,
IT COMES UP ALL THE TIME, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU
JUST WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW. AND SO, THEN THE OTHER ONE
WAS--THE HARD ONE OF, BEGIN PRAYING FOR GOOD THINGS
FOR THIS PERSON AND FORGIVING. AND I'LL TELL YA,
I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE IT UNTIL YEARS LATER, AND I COULD NOT
REMEMBER THIS PERSON'S NAME. AND, TO ME, THAT WAS LIKE
GOD SAYING, "I'VE DONE THIS COMPLETE HE
ALING IN YOUR
LIFE WHERE I HAVE TAKEN THE HURT FROM YOUR MIND."
AND STILL PRAY FOR THAT PERSON. I STILL DO. BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED
STILL COMES UP. BECAUSE I REMEMBER THEIR FIRST
NAME AND I PRAY FOR THEM. BUT I HONESTLY,
CANNOT REMEMBER THEIR LAST NAME,
WHICH IS A HUGE, HUGE STEP. AND, TO ME, IT'S JUST
A MIRACULOUS THING THAT GOD HAS DONE. AND, AT ONE POINT, I WAS LIKE,
"WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME? I NEED TO REMEMBER THAT."
AND GOD JUST VERY GENTLY PUT ON MY HEART, IT'S LIKE,
"NO, YOU DON'T NEED THAT I
N YOUR LIFE. YOU DON'T NEED THAT NOW."
AND SO, I'M JUST SO GRATEFUL FOR WHAT GOD DOES WHEN
I COULDN'T POSSIBLY DO IT. JOYCE: WELL, I AM REALLY
TRUSTING GOD THAT THIS BOOK IS GOING TO HELP LOTS,
AND LOTS, AND LOTS OF PEOPLE. 'CAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY
PEOPLE--JUST OUR DISCUSSION HERE TODAY, WHO ARE LITERALLY
MAKING THEMSELVES MISERABLE AND RUINING
THEIR LIVES OVER A FEELING. AND GOD JUST ASKS US,
HE DEMANDS THAT WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER. JESUS SAID, "I'M LEAVING
YOU WITH ONE COMMANDMENT." ONE--IF YOU DO
THIS ONE THING,
THEN EVERYTHING ELSE IS GONNA WORK OUT ALL RIGHT. "LOVE PEOPLE THE SAME WAY
THAT I HAVE LOVED YOU." GINGER: AND, JAI, YOU'VE
ALREADY COME SO FAR. JAI: YEAH, I FEEL IT. I FEEL IT. AND I FEEL CLOSER TO GOD
BECAUSE OF THE ANGER AND FRUSTRATION AND ALMOST
HATRED--LIKE, THERE'S A THIN LINE BETWEEN THAT, YOU KNOW? SO, THE FACT THAT, LIKE,
THE MORE I ALLOW GOD TO FILL ME UP WITH LOVE,
I FEEL CLOSER TO HIM BECAUSE HE IS LOVE. YOU KNOW, HE IS LOVE. AND SO, LIKE, THERE WAS
A POINT IN THIS
WHOLE JOURNEY THAT I FELT
SO DISCONNECTED TO GOD. THAT'S BECAUSE I WAS
SO FILLED UP WITH ALL OF THE JUNK OF BEING ANGRY,
WHICH I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE'S A SEASON FOR ALL OF THAT STUFF. WHEN YOU'RE DONE WRONG,
LIKE, IT'S A SEASON TO MOURN, AND BE UPSET,
AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT LIKE, THERE HAS COME
A TIME WHERE I'M LIKE, "I'M TIRED OF BEING ANGRY."
IT'S EXHAUSTING. I'M TIRED OF BEING RIGHT. I'M TIRED OF BEING ANGRY. I JUST WANT THE LOVE OF GOD
TO WASH OVER ME SO THAT I COULD FORGET HIS NAME. NO
. GINGER: YOU KNOW,
MORE OR LESS. IT MAY NOT BE A PHYSICAL
FORGETTING OF HIS NAME, BUT GOD WILL GIVE YOU EXACTLY
WHAT YOU NEED FOR YOU TO REALIZE THE HEALING THAT
HE HAS BROUGHT IN YOUR LIFE THAT YOU NEVER KNEW WAS POSSIBLE. JOYCE: THE REASON WHY
WE'RE HURT BY--LIKE YOU SAID, THE PERSON THAT HURT YOU,
YOU COUNTED A FRIEND, YOUR HUSBAND HURT YOU,
MY PARENTS HURT ME, YOUR HUSBAND HURT YOU. PEOPLE CAN'T HURT YOU
IF YOU DON'T LOVE THEM. BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T LOVE
'EM, YOU DON'T CARE. YOU'RE NOT AS TO
UCHED. YOU DON'T LIKE IT,
BUT YOU'RE NOT AS TOUCHED, YOU KNOW, BY WHAT PEOPLE SAY. AND SO, YOU CAN'T--
YOU JUST CAN'T LOVE AND NEVER GET HURT. GINGER: THAT'S TRUE. ERIN: I THINK, ONE
REALLY--ONE THING THAT'S REALLY EXCITING FOR ME ABOUT
THIS BOOK RELEASE OF YOURS IS WHEN YOU WROTE
"DO IT AFRAID," YOU WROTE THAT A COU--
I MEAN, THE PROCESS OF WRITING A BOOK
TAKES SOME TIME. AND GOD KNEW WHAT
WAS GONNA COME. SO, WHEN THAT BOOK
WAS RELEASED, THE PANDEMIC HAD JUST HAPPENED,
AND WE WERE ALL FULL OF F
EAR. JOYCE: AND WE DIDN'T KNOW
THAT WHEN I WROTE THE BOOK. ERIN: YOU HAD NO IDEA WHEN
YOU WROTE THAT BOOK THAT IT WAS GONNA BE THAT MOMENT. WELL, NOW, IT'S A COUPLE
OF YEARS PAST THAT POINT, AND YOU HAVE THIS BOOK COMING
OUT AT A TIME WHEN WE'VE ALL LIVED THROUGH A PANDEMIC. WE'VE WALKED THROUGH REALLY
HARD ISSUES, AS A CULTURE, AND INDIVIDUALLY, IN OUR HOMES,
WHERE WE HAVE BEEN WITH THESE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME. GINGER: ALL THE TIME. JOYCE: OH, ALL THE TIME! ERIN: THEY'RE ALWAYS THERE. GINGER: HE
NEVER
GOES TO WORK ANYMORE. [LAUGHS]
I JUST GOT TOO PERSONAL, SORRY. ERIN: YOU WANNA TALK
ABOUT IT SOME MORE? JOYCE: WELL, DAVE AND I HAVE
WORKED TOGETHER FOR 40 YEARS. GINGER: OH, THAT'S AMAZING. ERIN: YOU SHOULD
WRITE A BOOK ON THIS, BUT I JUST THINK GOD'S
TIMING IS SO PERFECT, AND IT MAKES ME EXCITED
TO SEE HOW NOW WE'RE READY FOR THIS MESSAGE. WE NEED, NOW MORE THAN EVER,
TO HEAR, HOW DO WE LOVE THESE PEOPLE IN OUR LIVES,
THAT WE NOW, KNOW WE NEED TO. JOYCE: AND I JUST THINK
WE HAVE THE TOTA
LLY WRONG UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT LOVE IS. I REALLY BELIEVE THAT
EVERYBODY CONNECTS IT TO THEIR FEELINGS
AND THAT'S JUST NOT WHAT IT IS. IT'S NOT THEORY. IT'S NOT A SERMON. IT'S ACTION. IT'S HOW YOU TREAT PEOPLE. GINGER: THAT'S SO IMPORTANT,
LOVE IS NOT THEORY. IT'S NOT ONLY WHEN
EVERYTHING'S PERFECT. IT'S NOT ONLY WHEN
I'M NOT GETTING HURT, OR WHEN EVERYONE
KNOWS I'M RIGHT, YOU KNOW? LOVE IS SOMETHING THAT ONLY
GOD CAN HELP US REALLY DO, IN THE WAY THAT HE WANTS US TO. SO, WE HAVE JOYCE'S BOOK
AV
AILABLE FOR YOU TODAY, OF COURSE. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO GET IT,
GO TO JOYCEMEYER.ORG/TALKITOUT
AND YOU CAN GET THE BOOK FOR ANY AMOUNT. WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT
YOU'RE GETTING WHAT GOD'S WORD SAYS ABOUT HOW TO LOVE
IN THE WAY THAT HE DOES, AND SEE HOW IT CHANGES,
NOT ONLY YOUR LIFE, BUT YOUR FAMILY'S LIFE,
THE PEOPLE ALL AROUND YOU. EVERY STEP THAT YOU TAKE
THAT IS KIND OF A SWALLOW OF YOUR PRIDE AND A LOT
OF HARD THINGS, EVERY ONE OF THEM WILL
BE WORTH IT IN THE LONG RUN. SO, IT'S ALWAYS, DO
THAT
THING TODAY THAT YOU'LL BE GLAD YOU DID LATER. SO, WE WANNA MAKE SURE
NOT ONLY THAT, BUT THAT WE LET YOU KNOW ABOUT SOMETHING
ELSE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT. AND THAT IS THAT OUR WOMEN'S
CONFERENCE IS SO SOON. IT IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER. IT'S THE LOVE LIFE WOMEN'S
CONFERENCE. SO, JOYCE IS GONNA TEACH
YOU MORE THERE ABOUT HOW TO LOVE THOSE DIFFICULT PEOPLE. AND WE CAN STILL
HAVE YOU JOIN US. IT'S NOT TOO LATE. YOU CAN STILL REGISTER. YOU CAN BE THERE IN PERSON. SEPTEMBER 22nd IS WHEN
IT ALL B
EGINS, RIGHT HERE, IN ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI. OR YOU CAN JOIN US ONLINE,
EITHER WAY. SO GO TO JOYCEMEYER.ORG
AND FIND OUT HOW TO JOIN US. WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE THERE. WE'RE GONNA HAVE SO MUCH FUN. JOYCE: IT'S OUR
40th ANNIVERSARY, 40th WOMEN'S CONFERENCE. PLEASE COME AND JOIN US. GINGER: YEAH, WELL,
I DO LOVE YOU ALL... JAI: WE LOVE YOU TOO. GINGER: SO MUCH. JAI: IT'S GOOD TO KNOW THAT. IT'S SO GOOD TO KNOW THAT
WE ARE ON THE GOOD LIST. GINGER: YOU'RE NOT
ON THE BAD LIST. JOYCE: LET'S JUST ALL SAY
IT,
"I LOVE YOU, I LOVE YOU ALL, I LOVE YOU ALL, I LOVE YOU. [LADIES LAUGHING] JOYCE: AND WE LOVE
ALL OF YOU, TOO. GINGER: AND WE'LL SEE
YOU NEXT TIME. LADIES: BYE. GINGER:
JOYCEMEYER.ORG/TALKITOUT IS A WONDERFUL PLACE. GO THERE FOR TODAY'S RESOURCE,
TO CHECK OUT ALL OF THE EPISODES,
AND TO GET TO KNOW US A LITTLE BETTER. PLEASE, DON'T FORGET
TO SUBSCRIBE WHEREVER YOU LISTEN OR WATCH JOYCE MEYER'S
TALK IT OUT PODCAST, AND LET US KNOW WHAT
YOU'RE THINKING. YOUR VOICE IS IMPORTANT TO US. [MUSIC]
Comments
Looking at the beautiful images I am filled with awe. This is my world...this is OUR world and GOD made it! No amount of negativity or evil can snuff out the beautiful creation that He has made, although man is working hard to do that by not taking care of the earth. But, OUR world is beautiful and taking this journey by drone around the world has awakened me to the fact that this is not in my daily journey in my part of the world, but I can visit anytime I want. The stress of this day has already gone as I am reminded again and again of how great our God is.
The light of our Saviour’s love still shines brightly in this darkened world. He will provide a way for us to walk with Him to absolute victory. Trust in Jesus. He loves you so much. 🙏
I say love God and do what you want!! Because Momma Joyce is correct in reminding us that it's WHY we say & do what we do that God looks at. A lot of people probably judge Mommas Joyce for getting her face lifted years ago, well those same people will probably judge your tattoo too!! How cares?!! Not me & not God!!! I love you exactly the same Momma Joyce & it's between you and God anyway!! Hallelujah!! 😘😘😘
This message has come at the PERFECT (God’s timing always is) time for me and my family! ❤️🙏🏼😄 I’m praying that I can take what I’m hearing and learning from God’s word and apply it to our current situation that seems to be never-ending. And I’m praying for all others who are listening to this today and reading the comments. We all need God’s help and guidance in dealing with the difficult things in this life. Thanks, ladies! I always love listening to your talks! 😘🙏🏼 - Your sister in Christ
The more you around people the more you get mad. Try to change your ways put God first and pray.
Wow,thankyou for this podcast. Joyce 😭😭😭😭 thankyou. Another book is out again💃💃💃💃💃💃💃💃💃💃💃💃💃
Great discussion
Ginger your hair color is fabulous!
OMG! This was soooo good. I feel like I can leap tall buildings 🦸♂️ I appreciate Joyce and the girls so much. Show me Jesus💞💕💞
I love Erin she's georgous.
So I've been waiting for you guys like forever 😔😔. I thought you have abandoned us. But thank God you're here 😂😂😂
I want to say this respectfully, I would not have any desire to do anything for my ex-and his new wife. Come on, lets be real. That would be really hard for anyone to do. I love Gingers honesty.
I’m exactly like Jai
Thank you!!! Pastor Joyce, I have watched you for many years and appreciate all of your teaching and preaching sermons. This has truly changed my life.❤
Man, these ladies are some smart cookies!!
Wow, how God put you ladies in my life. God knew I needed to listen to this message. Thank you Lord, for the blessings you bring through these ladies. 🙏❤️
I appreciate this podcast every time I listen to it I become empowered
God Bless, There’s My Mother, mY brothers and sisters OMG GOD PLEASE FORGIVE THEM , Forgive me , I can’t understand THEM . I Love them , I forgive them 🙏 💕
This was extremely helpful!!! Thank you so much ladies!!!
I love you all too 😀