What TV Shows Get Wrong (and Right!) About Therapy

Alan: This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all in one platform to build a beautiful online presence... ...like Jonathan. Jono: Gotta ponder a lot to reach this level of beauty. Dr. Fieldstone: What did you love about him? Jono: All of the books that I read, all the research that I pored over, all of it matters. Ted: Why? Jono: But my ability to help people... I got it from my mom. Trey: What would I do if I didn't... If I didn't have you. Jono: She was caring, and genuine, and unde

rstanding, and interested. Ted: Life. It's hard. It's real hard. Alan: Hundreds and thousands of hours learning the technical stuff that goes along with it. William: Redefining the problem. Deal with the feeling. Frasier: I don't know what he wants! Alan: All of that to serve that moment of emotion. Trey: Could you press "stop", please? Alan: Because of human connection. That's why it matters. Alan: Hello, everyone. Welcome to Cinema Therapy. I'm Alan Seawright, a professional filmmaker who need

s therapy. And I'm joined by... Jono: Jonathan Decker, licensed therapist who loves movies and television shows and pop culture. Alan: You sure do. Jono: What are we doing today? Alan: You've read the notes, didn't you? Jono: I may have. Alan: What we're doing today is, I'm going to have Jonathan Decker, master, LMFT, a master's degree owner. Jono: Thank you. Nobody calls me master. You call PhD people Doctor. Alan: Master Jonathan Decker, LMFT, is going to take on television therapists. Jono: O

h, okay. Alan: And tell you whether or not they're any good. Jono: What would I do differently? Alan: How would you approach this client? Jono: Okay, this could be fun. Dr. Fieldstone: I'm curious about something. What was he like? Ted: He was a good man, you know. Real chatterbox, believe it or not. Probably could have been a little bit better listening box at times. Dr. Fieldstone: What did you love about him? Ted: Why? Dr. Fieldstone: You told me what you hate about him. I'd love to hear some

thing you remember that made you feel good. Ted: [scoffs] Alan: That seems like an awesome therapy. Yeah. Jono: Yeah. And the reason I would say it's really great therapy is because she is only steering this in the vague direction that she wants it to go. She's not looking for a specific outcome. But what she is doing is asking him questions, because the best therapy is when the ideas and the breakthroughs come from within the mind of the person across from you. People may come to you as a thera

pist expecting you to have the answers, but that's not actually your job. Your job is a plumber of the soul, like, you're unclogging... Jono: You're... Alan: Yucky. Jono: But you're unclogging things so that we can flow... Alan: So it can flow. Yeah. Jono: She doesn't know exactly what she's going to ask or exactly what the outcome is, but she trusts the process and that's her skill set, right? I also like that when he says, Ted: I didn't go to my dad's funeral. Dr. Fieldstone: Okay. Why not? Te

d: Because he quit. Jono: A lot of people's inclination, including a lot of therapists' inclination, would be like, Your dad didn't quit. He was depressed. He was overwhelmed. He wasn't himself. He wasn't seeing the world clearly. Jono: And all of that, by the way, is absolutely accurate. In fact... Alan: True. Jono: The more immersed you are in the mental health literature, you realize that people who take their own lives, it's generally not a selfish act. They believe that they are absolving e

verybody else of the burden of their existence. Alan: It's almost always a completely misguided, altruistic act. Jono: Yes. Right? Now, again, I'm not saying they're right. I'm saying that's the thinking. It's not selfish. It's wanting a release from their pain and wanting to release everybody else. And so she is judging perfectly, not only what she needs to do, but the order in which to do it. Ted: He was a good dad. And I don't think he knew that. I think if he would have known how good he was

at stuff he didn't really care about being good at, he... I don't think he would have done what he... And I wish I would have told him. I wish I would have told him more. Alan: The power of not saying something in dialog. Ted: I knew right then and there, I was never going to let anybody get by me without understanding they might be hurting inside. You know? Life. It's hard. It's real hard. Dr. Fieldstone: Thank you. Ted. Ted: I don't know if this is illegal or something, but can I have a hug?

Dr. Fieldstone: Sure. Jono: "If this is illegal..." Dr. Fieldstone: Okay. Ted: Are you going to charge me for this session? Dr. Fieldstone: Of course I am. Ted: Okay. Dr. Fieldstone: For the house call. Ted: I appreciate your integrity. Dr. Fieldstone: You're welcome. Jono: I do like, to my point about making the note about correcting him about his father, that she could make the note in her head and come back to it later. Oftentimes, if you give people the right questions and let them work thro

ugh it, they'll arrive at it themselves. Jono: Because he arrived at, Life is hard. Alan: Yeah. Jono: I'm not going to let a person pass by without considering they might be hurting, right? And if my dad knew how good a dad he was, he might not have done what he did. Ted already knows. It's a very human thing to blame his dad and to hate his dad, but he also loves his dad. And he's also got the side of that understands, at least to some extent, my dad was hurting. Alan: Oh, he understands perfec

tly. He just hasn't extended that grace to his dad's action yet. But he... I mean, he obviously internalized the correct lesson. Jono: Yeah, if I were her, I'd say, Okay, maybe I don't need to highlight that because he gets it, right? So, A+. Thumbs up. Alan: A+. Thumbs up. That's good therapy. Jono: Hey, have you seen our new Cinema Therapy website? We just launched it a few months ago! Alan: I have, Jonathan, I've seen it and it was so easy to build and customize using...Squarespace. Jono: Squ

arespace has so many templates to choose from with a wide variety of styles and formats. Alan: So once we found a template that worked really well as a starting point for us, we added our own colors and fonts, unique personal touches to make it our own brand and style. Jono: Like Dr. Kinbote's cute office. If she used Squarespace, her website would be totes adorbs. Alan: She could use Fluid Engine, the design system from Squarespace, which makes it easy to customize the templates. Jono: All of S

quarespace's resources, like pre-built layouts, transferred domains, customizable templates, and the Squarespace Help Center make it quick and simple to build a website. Alan: So whether you need to build a website for your therapy clinic. Jono: Or your talk radio program, Alan: Or you're branding yourself as a superhero psychologist therapist specialist. Jono: Squarespace has a template that will work for you, and you won't have to spend months building a website. Yo. Alan: That's because they

have built-in tools, like video blocks, and extensions for a wide variety of platforms. Jono: So our website can be a hubba hubba hub link to all of our other stuff. Alan: Or a hub to link to all of our other stuff, like YouTube, Patreon, our upcoming events, our popcorn store, our merch store, our petting zoo, emu farm. Jono: No, just listen. Go look at it. There's cool stuff there. Alan: There's stuff on our website. Jono: You can also add an online store to your website, or use their blogging

and email tools to engage with your audience. Alan: Check out Squarespace.com for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, go to Squarespace.com/CinemaTherapy to get 10% off your first purchase of a website or... Jono: Domain. Dr. Kinbott: I hope we can forge a relationship based on trust and mutual respect. This is a safe space, Wednesday. A sanctuary where we can discuss anything. What you're thinking, feeling, your views on the world, personal philosophy. Wednesday: That's easy. I thin

k that this is a waste of time. I see the world as a place that must be endured, and my personal philosophy is kill or be killed. Dr. Kinbott: So, for instance, when someone bullies your brother, your response is to dump piranha in the pool. Wednesday: You know the old saying, never bring a knife to a swordfight... Unless it's concealed. Dr. Kinbott: The point is, you assaulted a boy and showed no remorse for your actions. That's why you're here. Wednesday: He lost a testicle. I did the world a

favor. People like Dalton shouldn't be allowed to procreate. I've answered all your questions. Dr. Kinbott: We're not done yet. Therapy is a valuable tool to help you understand yourself. It can teach you new ways to deal with your emotions. It can also help you build a life that you want. Wednesday: I know the life that I want. Dr. Kinbott: Tell me about it. Everything said in these sessions is strictly confidential. Do your plans involve becoming an author? I understand you've written three no

vels about a teen girl detective, Viper de la Muerte. Can you tell me about her? Wednesday: Viper is smart, perceptive, chronically misunderstood. Dr. Kinbott: The relationship I found most intriguing was that of Viper and her mother, Domenica. Why don't we dig into that? Alan: How is Dr. Kinbott doing with a very difficult subject? Jono: My first instinct is to say she's coming across too sugary sweet. Except for that really does seem to be who... Alan: It seems like who she just is. Jono: Who

she is. In which case, it's fine. If you're using that as a way to have people get their guard down or to make them feel comfortable... I don't know. I don't like it. I think it's important to show up in therapy as you because, as you've heard me quote Dr. Yalom, it's the relationship that heals. And you can't have a relationship based on mask wearing, right? Alan: One thing in the filmmaking that is telling us that this is really who she is Alan: ...is the production design and the wardrobe. Jo

no: Yeah. Alan: It's all sticky, sweet and nice, and it's all light and airy and cute. Jono: Yes. Alan: Like, her office is. The way she's dressed is very cute. Jono: Yeah. Alan: The hair is... a slight curl and some bounce to it. Alan: Like, she just looks like a friendly, nice, sweet woman. Jono: Yes. Alan: And all of that is subtle clues telling us this is who she really is. And then, of course, the music is playing. Maybe she's a villain because it's Wednesday and she thinks everyone's a vil

lain. Jono: Yeah, it's part of the narrative. Well, and here's the thing... People like Dr. Kinbott sometimes can make the best therapists. Jono: By that I mean genuinely caring, genuinely affectionate. Alan: Sure. Jono: Genuinely want to help. The issue is that people who are that sweet often go into therapy because they want to help, and they can't handle staring into the darkness. Alan: They get stepped on. Jono: Yeah. Alan: And that's where she excels. Jono: Yes! Alan: She looks into the dar

kness and looks right back. Jono: Yes. Alan: Like, in close up. And she's just like, We're not done yet. So good! Jono: Overall, I like her. Her style is not my style, but that's because her personality isn't my personality. Jono: But I do appreciate whith both therapists so far we're seeing THEM. Alan: Yeah. Jono: Right? So, it's good. Alan: Thumbs up. Dr. Raynor: It is my job to make sure that you're okay. Jono: Oh, yay! Dr. Raynor: So, yeah, this may be slightly unprofessional, but it's the o

nly way that I can see if you're getting over whatever's eating at you. Sam: This is ridiculous. Bucky: Yeah, I agree. Dr. Raynor: It's time for the soul gazing exercise. Bucky: I like this one. Thank you for doing it. Sam: Oh, my god, he's gonna love this. Oh, yeah. Dr. Raynor: Turn around, turn around. Face each other face. Sam: You two should really enjoy this. Bucky: I'm going to. Sam: I know you are. Bucky: Yeah. Dr. Raynor: Sam, face each other. Bucky: Let's do it. Let's stare. Alan: I'm s

o excited to get stories from you about sessions like this. Obviously, you can't give details, but... Dr. Raynor: Good. All right, get close. Closer. Bucky: Well, which way do you want to go? Sam: Why do you have to have your legs open? You know what? Fine. Here. You happy now? Dr. Raynor: All right, all right. Good. Sam: We're locked in. Bucky: It's a little close. Sam: Very close. That's what you wanted, right? Dr. Raynor: Guys! Jono: How are they not dying laughing, I'm sure... Dr. Raynor: No

w, look at each other. Alan: This must have been so much fun to shoot. Dr. Raynor: In the eyes. Alan: And hard to shoot, frankly. I'm sure they broke a lot. Dr. Raynor: You see, that wasn't so hard. Wait. What are you doing? Are you having a staring contest? Just blink. Sweet Jesus. All right. James, why does Sam aggravate you? And don't say something childish. Jono: He's like, Damn it. Bucky: Why did you give up that shield? Jono: There we go. Something real. Sam: [...] such a big deal out of s

omething that has nothing to do with you. Bucky: Steve believed in you. He trusted you. He gave you that shield for a reason. That shield, that is... That is everything he stood for. That is his legacy. He gave you that shield and you threw it away like it was nothing. So maybe he was wrong about you. And if he was wrong about you, then he was wrong about me. Sam: Well, let's get to work. Thanks, doc, for making it weird. I feel much better. I'll see you outside. Dr. Raynor: Thank you. That was.

.. really great. Alan: Comedy in that scene... Jono: Was golden. Alan: Pretty good. Jono: Yeah. Alan: How's the actual therapy? Jono: Eh... Alan: Eh... Yeah. Jono: This is an example of... And it's happening less with shows like Shrinking and things like that where you're seeing more therapists as people. Jimmy: I'm a psychological vigilante. Sean: You a what? Jimmy: Let's go find you someone to beat up. Jono: She doesn't feel like a person. She feels like a... Alan: She feels like a job. Jono:

A cold, harsh authority figure and a job. She doesn't really want to be there. And look, I'm not saying there aren't therapists like that or that I've never felt that way, but we're talking about the quality of therapy. And in the moment, like, the worst therapy I've ever done is when I've felt like... I'm pretty burnt out in my own life. When I'm pretty burnt out in my own life, it is a truism as much for therapists as anybody else, Jono: that if you don't take care of yourself, you can't take

care of other people. Alan: Right. Jono: And I don't know if it's... I mean, I'm getting real subtextual here, but if she's got a lot going on in her personal life, or if she's just had it with her work, but you could see it in her face. The empathy and the joy is gone. Alan: She's just tired of dealing with these manchildren. Jono: And the only thing she has left is strategy, and technique, and education. Right? So, you know, the things that she challenges them to do... I don't know about the s

oul gazing exercise. I mean, I've heard of that. And I know people have had great moments with that in therapy, where they look into each other's eyes long enough that the defenses come down and they see the person in front of them. But that's kind of like sparring, that can go one of two ways, and... Alan: It could go really well or really badly. Dr. Raynor: Just blink. Sweet Jesus. Jono: My issue with her is not the strategies that she's employing, or the questions that she's asking. It's that

her heart isn't really in it. And that's a hard thing to quantify or measure. Jono: But you know when it's there and when it's not. Alan: Yeah. Jono: And that's my... Alan: Well, her outcome was suboptimal... Jono: Yeah. Alan: ...we'll say Jono: Well, and what I do like, on a performance level, is she says a lot of things that therapists think as people, but keep inside because it's not professional or helpful. Alan: Sweet Jesus. Stop. Come on. Jono: Like, yeah, exactly that. And then she's lik

e, Thanks, that was great. This is a show I'm currently watching, it's called New Amsterdam, about a hospital in New York City. And this is the resident psychiatrist of the hospital. He's dealing with a young man who was diagnosed with cancer, thought that he beat it, came back to the hospital, and realized that it has returned. Alan: It's, like, metastasized, right? It's terminal. Jono: Yeah. And he doesn't want to tell his parents. He's like, If I tell my parents, then I'm going to have to spe

nd the rest of my days with them doting on me. Jono: And there's so many things I haven't done yet. I want to go and just experience life. Alan: Wow. Jono: And Dr. Frome isn't going to tell him what to do or what not to do, but he does do something pretty cool here. Dr. Frome: Okay... For your discharge, my mountain climbing friend. Trey: Sweet. Thank you. Dr. Frome: Yeah. So, listen, before you leave, if you don't mind, I have one more shrink thought for you. What do you say about making a vide

o for your parents? Trey: What kind of video? Dr. Frome: Well, when you leave and you say goodbye, your parents aren't going to know that that's really goodbye. So, why don't you give them that gift? The real goodbye. And then when I receive word that you've passed, I will make sure that they get it. Trey: Yeah. Seems like a good idea. Dr. Frome: Great. Okay, I'm going to set this up. We'll get you off to Aconcagua in no time, my friend. Trey: What should I say? Dr. Frome: I mean, that's up to y

ou, really. But... try to remember that when your parents see this, they're going to be dealing with the fact that you're gone. So, I don't know, maybe tell them how you want to be remembered. Five most important memories. Trey: And Thanksgiving. When I try to eat dad's stuffing after chemo, but I got sick and I... And you had to help clean me up. Jono: So, we skipped a couple. But... Alan: Yeah, he's listed a couple of things. Trey: ...having this thought of, Jesus, what would I do if I didn't.

..? If I didn't have you. Alan: This kid's good. Jono: Oh, as an actor? Yeah. Trey: Could you press stop, please? Alan: It's what we, in the movie business, like to call a little bit of trickeration. Sneaking in, got him from the backside. Jono: Well, and we had to shorten that. Alan: We had to shorten it a bit. Jono: Because he's not emotional at first. He's listing kind of like fluff memories, right? And then he starts getting into how much his parents were there for him. Jono: And he ultimate

ly makes the decision to go home and spend his last months with his family. Alan: Sure. Jono: Right? Doctor Frome had hoped that he would do that, but he also knows, It's not my place to guilt trip or shame this person for the choice that they're making. One of the things that we do in therapy to guide people, is just to help them think things all the way through. Because oftentimes, out of fear or out of excitement, people rush into decisions without counting the cost. And so if he's going to g

o and mountain climb and backpack across South America or wherever, and then die while he's out there and he's excited about this idea, Doctor Frome wants to make sure that he's not a month aw--, he's not gone, and then having regrets that he made this decision and he can't take it back. And so by recording this video... Because one of two outcomes is going to happen. Kid's going to do what he just did, or he's going to record the video and say, Thank you. I really feel at peace knowing that the

y're going to get that when I'm gone, and he's going to continue with his original plan. Good therapists honor their clients choices. And they don't try and guide them to specific decisions. They do exercise judgment of, Is this person really thinking this through? And how can I help them to make sure they've thought it all through so they don't have regrets later on? It's informed consent, right? And once I've done that, I'm going to make sure they choose whatever they want to do. William: On l

ine one, we have Frasier Crane from Seattle. Frasier: Hello, Dr. Crane. I love your show. A big fan. Jono: His friend's having him do therapy for himself. Jono: Other therapist. Frasier: I won't bore you with all the details of my life because you know them. Suffice to say... I'm a successful psychiatrist. My problem is that... In spite of the life I've built... I feel... Empty. Jono: It's a great exercise. Alan: It's really, really cool. Really smart. Dr. Crane: Oh. Emptiness. Eternal void. If

I'm not mistaken, it was John Keats who once wrote a... Odo: You're stalling. Deal with the feelings. Dr. Crane: All right, fair enough. Perhaps, caller, if we reframe the issue we can... William: Redefining the problem. Deal with the feelings. Alan: Rene Auberjonois is so great. Dr. Crane: Let's run down the Beck Depression Inventory... William: Re-diagnosing. You know what the problem is. The caller feels empty. Go on. Dr. Crane: Okay. Last month in the New England Journal... William: He's al

ready read it. Dr. Crane: How do you know?! William: The caller is Frasier Crane. If you did, he did. Dr. Crane: I can suggest certain visualization techniques. William: He knows them already. Dr. Crane: If he knows all this, then why is he calling? William: He told you. Because he's empty. Keep going. Dr. Crane: Well, sometimes it helps to... to write yourself a letter. William: He's already got himself on the phone. Dr. Crane: I don't know what he wants! William: Then why do you keep trying to

bury him in psychiatric exercises? Dr. Crane: Because that's all I have! I'm sorry, caller. I can't help you. Jono: Mmm. Alan: Wow. Jono: I love the breakthrough. "Why are you burying him in psychiatric exercises?" "Because it's all I have". And he says, I'm sorry, caller, I can't help you. You're trying to help people through your education. You're trying to help people through all of your research, and your psychiatric exercises. Jono: And you're not connecting with people in real life, inclu

ding yourself. Alan: Right. Jono: And that's why you feel empty. All of the books that I read, all the research that I poured over... All of it matters. All of it's helpful. But if you take the heart out of it, if you take the human connection out of it, Jono: ...all of it loses its potency. Alan: Yeah. Jono: My ability to help people... came before my training. I got it from my mom. My mom was caring, and genuine, and understanding, and interested, and she didn't always have the answers. But wh

at she always had was her presence and that it was sincere. Alan: And that's why it matters. That's why films work. That's why TV works, is because of human connection, not because of the qualifications of all the, you know, the people in the writers rooms, the people on set who've spent hundreds and thousands of hours learning how to light things, and subtly do things, and record sound, and all the technical stuff that goes along with it. Alan: All of that to serve that moment of emotion. Jono:

Yeah. Alan: We actually had a question from a member of our Patreon. Jono: Okay. Alan: What can you do to find a good match as a therapist for you? Jono: I would say, it comes down to two things specialization and personality fit, right? So you want a therapist who specializes in whatever it is that you're struggling with. Generally, people come to see me for help with their relationships. And if you come to me and you're saying, I've got schizophrenia, I'm going to refer you to somebody who sp

ecializes in that. Alan: Or narcissistic personality disorder or... Yeah, Jono: Right. So your psychiatrist and your psychologist deal primarily with emotional disorders, mental health disorders. Psychologists are going to deal with it primarily through talk therapy. Jono: Psychiatrists will do some of that and they can prescribe meds. Alan: Right. Jono: Social workers are going to do therapy, but they're also going to plug you into resources in the community that will be helpful for you. So a s

ocial worker is both a counselor and like a switchboard Jono: ...to, like, get you in touch with the right people. Alan: Yes. Jono: LMFT, which is what I am, will help you with your family relationships or with your romantic relationships. And then you have LPCs, licensed professional counselors, and you have various other licensures. So you want to look at what does this person specialize in? Do they specialize in trauma? Do they specialize in grief? Do they...? You want someone who's really ni

ched in what you're going through. And then, when it comes to personality fit, go to their website. If got YouTube videos, watch their YouTube videos. Most therapists have videos somewhere where they can do, like, a little sample of their personality, just talking to camera, and a lot of therapists, you can book 15 minute consultations for free. I know, Mended Light, we do that with our clinical team. And people can just have a quick conversation and see if this person's a fit. All of that cons

idered, don't be afraid to shop around. A lot of people, they start with a therapist, it's not a fit, but then they don't want to hurt the therapist's feelings. Any therapist who is actually professional... Alan: Is not going to have their feelings hurt. Jono: Is going to be okay with it. Alan: It took me a bunch of rounds to find a therapist that I... That really was able to help me, and I felt like I worked well with. Please comment below if there are other TV or movie therapists that you want

Jono to... versus. Jono: Yeah. Alan: Is that a verb now? Jono: I want Jono to versus. Yeah. Alan: Yes. Jono: You know what I'm interested in? We have a lot of clinicians who watch the show. Alan: Sure. Jono: I want a second opinion. I want your opinion. If you thought I was absolutely off in any of these assessments, I would love to hear from you. I am throwing down the gantlet. I'm not afraid. Let me know how I got it wrong in the comments below. Alan: Or right. Jono: Or right. Alan: Or right.

Jono: Or right. Be affirming if that's your jam. Alan: That might have happened. Jono: That might have happened once or twice. Alan: So, until next time... Jono: Ah. Emptiness. The eternal void. Alan: I'm a psychological vigilante. Now let's find somebody for you to beat the crap out of. Internet Dads: And... watch movies. Jono: TV shows. Alan: Oh, yeah. TV shows. Jono: Yeah. Watch them. Special shout out and thank you to our Patrons over at Patreon, folks like... Alan: Amy Jono: Amelia Baggins

Alan: Gregory Olson Jono: Amber Chase Alan: Jason Leeth Jono: Thank you for supporting our show and for basking in all of the exclusive content that we give you. Alan: Like extended Director's Cuts. This one's really long. Jono: And really, really weird videos. That are only exclusive to that. Alan: Weird... Do you want weird crap in your life? Jono: Filmmaking deep dives, therapy deep dives. Alan: Weird crap. Jono: Live Q&As, lots of awesome stuff. Alan: Also weird crap. Jono: Yeah, it's all w

eird.