Titan is a go for a dive to the Titanic on this edition of The Fifth Estate the Ocean Gate Titanic experience a dive to the most stored shipwreck on the planet that went horribly wrong it was a difficult moment it's a moment that you as a search and rescue professional you never want to deal with five people were on board including the subs controversial owner you're remembered for the rules you break and you know I've broken some rules to make this It Was a Race Against Time followed round the
world a rescue mission based here in St John's Newan land a city no stranger to tragedies at Sea cuz I just got the bad bad feeling right away that you know this is not how you do things we're on the trail to find out how an experimental submersible was ever allowed to take passengers to one of the most remote and unforgiving places in the ocean so do you believe that he was regularly misrepresenting the safety of the Titan oh sure he was so you can see bottom shouldn't be too far off should I'v
e almost back it up back it up yeah you can see butom back it up I'm Mark Kelly this is The Fifth Estate well more people have traveled to space or the top of Mount Everest then visited the wreck of the Titanic but ocean gate Expeditions may be about to change that it'sing a it was 2017 and Stockton Rush introduced himself to a Canadian audience with an audacious pitch thanks so much for being here pleasure to be here he was selling seats on his submarine for a trip to the Titanic 105,000 us ahe
ad we uh sold out the first 54 uh positions for uh May of 2018 and we have filled uh two weeks of 2019 what's the level of danger with this type of expedition well um surprisingly the safest part of the Expedition will be the submarine part uh in the last 35 years uh there hasn't been an injury on a commercial private sub although there've been over 15 million people going them going to sea is intrinsically a a risky activity um but we're doing everything we can to make sure that it's uh as safe
and uh and uh comfortable as possible well Stockton Rush thank you so much for being here and I guess we'll see you in St John's next year very looking forward to it the Titanic has never really rested in peace the so-called unsinkable ship that sank in 1912 in part due to design flaws in part due to a captain who ignored warnings and a century later it seems stocked in Rush was doomed to repeat [Music] history a Princeton aerospace engineering grad Rush co-founded Ocean Gate in 2009 in Everett
Washington it's almost impossible to describe what it's like to be underwater which is why I wanted to launch Ocean Gate I'd describe Stockton as probably one of the most intelligent people I've ever met and by intelligent I mean he's not just smart but he has intellectual curiosity uh especially when it came to engineering he was always a problem solver G online co-founded Ocean Gate with Stockton Rush as far as using Titan or a technology to go deep underwater where people humans normally don
't go and very few humans have ever been I'd say he's been dreaming of that since he was a kid Rush came from a wealthy family at 19 he was a trained pilot born it seemed to explore I wasn't going to get to Jupiter or Mars but I did realize that all the cool stuff that I thought was out there is actually underwater his wife Wendy is the great great granddaughter of a retailing giant who along with his wife were two of the wealthiest people to perish on the Titanic so as far as you know did he dr
eam of using Titan to go to Titanic I don't I don't think that was that was ever a dream of his that was more of a I think that was more of a business decision Ocean Gate owns three submersibles we have antipodes which can go to 305 M or 1,000 ft Cyclops 1 which goes to 500 M or, 1600 ft and Titan which goes to 4,000 M or 13,200 ft Russia's Jewel was the Titan and it would be different from all the other deep sea submersible that had come before it at their core a spherical titanium Hull to with
stand the unforgiving pressures of the deep ocean Rush chose to build the Titan's larger five-person Hull with a lighter and cheaper material about 12 CM of carbon fiber this 2017 Ocean Gate video shows a titanium ring being bonded to the carbon fiber Hull of the Titan could be the deepest diving carbon fiber sub ever built when it goes to 4,000 meters will be the only one out there I'm going to be the first guy in the sub it would be the only one out there for good reason carbon fiber is used p
rimarily for aircraft not submersibles water pressure exerts immense force on the hull at 10,000 M for example the pressure is nearly 1 ton per square in in 2018 ocean Gates director of marine operations David Lockridge dropped a bombshell a 10-page report addressed to rush and four other company officials outlining flaws in the design and build of Titan which he said had been dismissed on several occasions I must make this report so there is an official record in place he wrote among the more t
han two dozen safety issues lockerd said needed to be addressed O-rings designed to connect parts that didn't seal properly flooring material that easily burned and most disturbing visible signs of delamination and holes in that carbon fiber Hull he concluded until suitable corrective actions are in place and closed out Titan should not be manned during any of the upcoming trials there are only about two dozen private sub manufacturers in the world and they meet once a year to discuss Innovation
s best practices and ensuring safety in their growing industry and after Locker report was leaked the alarm Bells went off and it's like this if this goes bad it's not just bad for the company and the people involved but the whole industry will Conan is a quebecer who now lives in California designing and building submersibles he said he tried to convince rush to rethink his carbon fiber design if you have carbon fiber for example Composite Materials you have lots of different techniques of putt
ing it together the engineer of calculating what each layer is doing is almost impossible to do that's why I told Stockton on the phone it says Stockton doing one dive to 4,000 m is not a test program so in 2018 acting as a member of the Marine technology Society Conan drafted a letter to Stockton Rush he wrote that industry members have expressed unanimous concern regarding the development of Titan and the Planned Titanic expedition and the possible negative outcomes from minor to catastrophic
in the letter you had used the word catastrophic there was a fear of a cat the potential for a catastrophic outcome what did you mean by that sure they could kill somebody for sure I mean it's dangerous this is heart right the letter was circulated to dozens of experts but the Marine technology Society board was opposed to it being sent out it was eventually leaked to rush who then called Conan well he was ticked off I mean he was not happy you know but in a way I was happy that he was calling b
ecause I wasn't allowed to send it right so it kind of came back and he says well what's this it's like well you read it you could see what it is and says we're really concerned it's like yeah well you know we're ahead of innovation and the rules are just holding us back it's like look Stockton I have as much desire as you to be able to innovate and come up with new ideas that maybe they're not any rules about but there's a way about going it and I think it's critical to to consider for a minute
that if the general public is paying to go in that machine that you have to be held to a higher standard Ottawa born Patrick liy signed the letter he designed a sub that Dove to 11,000 M almost three times the depth of the Titanic [Music] at 11,000 M the pressure on the on that Hull the pressure boundary that we're you know that the people are inside of is equivalent to 292 fully fueled jumbo Jets sitting on top of it and the Titan he said was not designed for safety he saw it Firs hand while o
n vacation in the Bahamas where it was being tested by Ocean Gate I walked around it and I expressed alarm and concern about many of the things that I did see so I I I made a list of a few things that I I thought they should uh they should look at and didn't sort of think anything of it in fact honestly I I think when I when I uh left I I I sort of felt like that thing was probably so far from being ready to dive that it probably never would [Music] it would indeed dive but first Rush fire David
Lockridge who then warned us labor investigators about the design flaws in this interview obtained by The Fifth Estate the sections are an obsolute mess you can see them that like swiss cheese so when you put a torch at the back of you can see all the way through you can feel the D laminations where the resin has not been bonded properly Ocean Gate sued him lockage counter sued the cases were settled out of court and the labor complaint dropped rush says he then built a new Hull out here we're
this is really focused on one thing and that's the pressure vessel and making sure that that that component which is clearly the most critical component of the sub uh is uh safe and capable of handling uh depths down to 4,000 M repeatedly with uh people on board but was the new hle different in any way from the first one we contacted Ocean Gate and the companies that built the hull they declined to comment what is clear is the Titan had survived the Maelstrom of its critics Rush was ready to div
e and now he was charging $250,000 for a ticket to the Titanic when we come back we dive down to experience what goes into building and operating a sub for ocean exploration this quiet Marina in Southern California is a gateway for people seeking a Unique Travel experience the global Adventure tourism industry is exploding and this Yellow Submarine is just the ticket for amateur explorers we're here in Rondo Beach California to meet a couple of Canadians behind a company named sein they've now b
uilt 16 submersibles some are used for search and rescue some for ocean research and Su are toys for the ultra Rich they say it is a growth industry so we're going to dive with them today and see what the fuss is all about Will and Charles Conan's team built this five person sub for a private client in Europe the price tag 6 million us after we've rigged the sub with our cameras and pre-dive checks we're ready to board I'm joined by my colleague Julie duen from the Radio Canada program onette so
they having latch closed we'll only be diving to 100 m today to get a taste of the experience some people are paying dearly to try inside Charles Conan briefs us on the subs safety features these are self breathing devices oxygen Mass if there's fire and smoke in the cabin but there's always a contingency plan in place yeah yeah so we have a contingency plant right now that plan includes 4 days of oxygen and 4 days of food and water and a remote operated vehicle or ROV on the support vessel to
be deployed if needed the barge toes us out to sea just off the coast it's not I I know we were talking about this before and it's not really fair to compare this to the Titan because they're completely different vessels built for completely different purposes completely different depths however still a five person it's a five person and for you safety remains like the priority concern it is it has to recognized approved so that it's certified so that the owners realize that there're that they h
ave a vessel that has been third party approved two standards recognizing International standards most Subs are inspected and certified by independent and internationally recognized agencies like the American Bureau of shipping or ABS in 2018 fired Ocean Gate director of marine operations David Lockridge said in court documents that he had strongly encouraged encouraged the company to bring in ABS to inspect and certify the Titan but that never happened in 2019 Ocean Gate said it was going to an
other agency instead seeking classification from Lloyd's Register so The Fifth Estate reached out to Lloyds who told us they declined a request from Ocean Gate to provide classification following a preliminary observation of Ocean Gate testing a Titan submersible in 2019 and that they never never did class the Titan the Ocean Gate sub was not certified it was an experimental craft and as such it should have never carried human beings it was not fit for purpose frankly and if you want to use it t
o carry human beings you should be willing to submit your design your engineering your analysis um to a third party review at some point safety just is pure waste I mean if you just want to be safe don't get out of bed don't get in your car don't do anything at some point you're going to take some risk and it really is a risk reward question I said I think I can do this just as safely by breaking the rules so I I disagree that this this idea that somehow certification is an impediment to Innovat
ion or that it it somehow hinders uh Progressive thinking it's absolutely not true I just think you know it that's a cop out and while the Titan wasn't independently safety tested ocean Gate's promotional videos said the sub had been designed with the help of some engineering Heavy Hitters we partnered with Aerospace experts at the University of Washington NASA and Boeing on the design of our Hall The Fifth Estate contacted Russia's so-called Partners the University of Washington was not involve
d in the design engineering or testing of the Titan Boeing was not a partner on the Titan and did not design or build it NASA only provided virtual Consulting the agency did not conduct any testing and Manufacturing via its Workforce or facilities so do you do you believe that he was regularly misrepresenting the safety of the Titan oh sure he was the question is did he know it well our job was to let him know that yeah Conan is a Critic and competitor of Ocean Gate so we wondered why was he lis
ted as an adviser to the company's Research Foundation I did not know I was an adviser to the foundation you did not know that it's it it's on their it's on their website that they have you listed as a as an ad as an adviser in 2015 really well okay thank you no I did not know this waiver makes it crystal clear about the risk factor for anybody who wants a seat on the Titan it reads in part the experimental submersible vessel has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body and maybe co
nstructed of materials that have not been widely used in any human occupied submersible and if that didn't get your attention the possibility of death is mentioned eight times in the fine print Rob mallum has led deep SE Dives to every ocean on earth he told rush to heed his critics diving in an certified carbon fiber Hull was like defying the laws of physics you know and in every entity I'm have worked with or sailed with culture is the the culture of safety is is primary anybody on the team ca
n raise a safety concern and it's not dismissed until it's thoroughly investigated and it is celebrated as a way of trying to avoid uh an incident but as you'll see in the correspondence Stockton always took it as a personal front as as a personal offense Russia's response to mallum I'm clearly an advocate for a different path a relevant comparison for Ocean Gate is Virgin Galactic blue origin and SpaceX that will use uncertified spaceships with their clients Rush concluded we have heard the bas
eless cries of you are going to kill someone way too often I take this as a serious personal insult [Music] back in California we're ready to dive in cagin certified sub top side has given us permission to dive he's going to activate right now the vertical thrusters as you see and push us on the water you see that behind it right that's the vertical propeller pushing you on the water here we go and here we are wow this is left off the other way Roger Roger we see a 20 m as well and we have you o
n tracking over you want another set of before we carry on there Roger Roger go ahead for a set of vitals over and I'm going to try to be professional but at the same time this is pretty cool fun stuff I got to say Ive never had an experience like this before it doesn't take long before were enveloped in total darkness 100 m in the Deep so you can see bottom shouldn't be too far off it should have almost back it up back it up yeah you can see bottom back it [Music] up all the safety protocols an
d precautions for a 30-minute dive to the ocean floor but it would be a very different experience for the crew of the Titan it was a clear Day on June 16th 2023 when the sub was towed out of St John's Harbor Bound for the sight of the Titanic this would be the Titan's 14th trip to the ocean floor to see the Majestic wreck it would also be the last when we come back a firsthand account of what it was like to dive in the Titan when you get in there you know it all comes crashing down on you have t
hat thought about all the things that could go wrong 600 km from St John's the Titan team had reached its destination in the North Atlantic it was dive day the five passengers were bolted into the sub's carbon fiber Hull Stockton Rush was joined by British billionaire haish Harding Pakistani businessman shazar dawood and his 19-year-old son Suliman their guide was the storied French Submariner Pauli naral a former French naval Commander naral had made 37 successful Dives to the Titanic I was inc
redulous I couldn't believe that he was going to go out there and I expressed my grave concerns to him in as plain a manner as you as as you as you could his friend Patrick lahi said naral should have recognized the risk of diving in the Titan he wasn't just smart he was very smart and he was highly experienced so when I asked him pH why are you why are you doing this and he said well because you know maybe if I'm out there I can help them avoid a tragedy you know maybe I can help enhance the th
e safety of their operation I believe he genuinely thought that he could do that pH got pH Toronto businessman Colin Taylor met naral when Taylor dove with his son in the Titan in 2022 so that was a reassurance for you it was absolutely reassured Taylor had heard the Titans many critics but says Stockton Rush assured him that he and his son were safe when you are about to get into that sub and be you're bolted in when you get in there you know it all comes crashing down on you right you have tha
t you have that uh thought about all the things that could go wrong Titan is a go for a dive to the Titanic and if passengers like Taylor had any concerns about the Titan controversial carbon fiber Hull Rush had a solution unlock so in inside the sub when we were in it uh um there was a counter it was counting the number of cracks that were happening in that sub and you could see them ticking away all the way through the ride up and down yeah cracks in the lamination that's right how how do you
feel about that is that not an overriding concern it is a concern but you know it's happening and you know that it's being monitored and you know that it's natural that Carbon Fiber goes through stresses and does have those cracks in them let's take a look at Titan Rush took PR in his unconventional approach to him this was Peak Innovation and it's all run with this game controller and these touch screens and it's Bluetooth so I can hand it to anybody and it's meant for a 16-year-old to throw it
around and super durable we keep a couple of spares on board just in case to others Rush was simply cutting Corners to save money for two summers Ocean Gate chartered The Horizon Arctic to FY the submersible from St John's Harbor to the cited the Titanic but in 2023 Ocean Gate went in a New Direction chartering the smaller and cheaper polar Prince check it out got a lot of people working on the submarine doesn't get banged up YouTuber Jake kler was on a Titanic expedition in 2023 I'm so excited
his video shows how the sub was towed 36 hours out to sea and back rather than safely stored on the stern of the ship the iceburgs come down from Greenland and uh they come by new FL by St John's and head out that way over Titanic Larry Daly is a veteran Logistics coordinator in St John's who helped Expeditions dive to the Titanic he was out on the Harbor in the spring of 2023 and was stunned by what he saw I love it when I saw the polar Prince Towing the platform in with the submersive on it a
nd a small little zodiac Towing behind that with a guy sitting in it coming through the Narrows right behind us where we are now you know first thing I said you know I won't repeat it but you know what the hell are they doing you know is that how they're going to get that out to the Titanic site 350 Mi off St John's you know this is what they're doing this is going to end poly according to data from the website marine traffic in Spring 2023 the Titan was towed twice to the Titan T anic and back
on coler's trip the Titan's computer system which controls the sub failed we've got to find out what this control problem is that's sort of important controlling the sub it's up there with life support all right we're inside and sealed in the submarine days later the crew tried a test dive yeah yeah we're doing it they made it about 10 m before resurfacing yeah that means they're probably going to bring us up so yeah you know cuz we've had no coms for for a while these Mission critical issues we
re plaguing the Titan just 2 weeks before its ill fad dive but rather than question the safety of the Titan St John's was busy climbing on board in May 2023 of New Finland and Labrador posted her tour of the Polar Prince with Rush on social media Joe Singleton is the interim head of Ocean Technology at The Institute and he joins us this morning one of Canada's leading ocean research schools the Marine Institute in St John's partnered with Ocean Gate to have students join the Expeditions so what'
s going to be happening on the Dives that your students will be a part of so they'll be part of really this poor team I guess if uh maybe one of the Expedition members got cold feet and they felt like they didn't want to go and there was an empty seat you never know they might get a an actual seat on the uh on the dive sir csuri teaches ocean biology at The Institute he said the school was giving scientific legitimacy to what he considered a Pampered tourist trip I don't know what their explorat
ion plan was their scientific plan they can call themselves explorers okay well that's fine but why are you going down to explore a grave site that's been visited 200 times by other people cier says no one at the Institute was doing their due diligence about ocean Gate's Expedition we pride ourselves at the University and the Marine Institute fisheries and Marine Institute of Memorial University in particular for being certified to International standards for education training and research did
somebody ask questions don't know um you're asking questions well I'm asking questions after the fact right I I wasn't asking them before did anyone question the risk of putting students on these Expeditions the Marine Institute declined our request for an interview when it comes to Maritime safety you can't get much Cozier or convenient than the St John's Harbor all the agencies responsible for maritime safety are here the Canadian Coast Guard Transport Canada the port authority and all of thos
e agencies would have seen the Titan towed out to seea and back time and time again so was anyone in those agencies prepared to step in stop the Expedition and save lives well we asked all those agencies for an interview all of them declined we're not actually filming like any anything particular the Titan was taxied in and out of St John's Harbor for 3 years no questions asked but after only a couple of hours of filming in the harbor the Port Authority called Larry Daly to question what we were
doing yeah no sweat sounds good you're welcome okay okay bye they're not Slicker pick this up on the camera who is that that's the Port Authority right so uh yeah they want to they want um would of you a call just uh it's supposed to be a like a forum filled out they fill in the harbor okay so they control all this area here right so that's first time that's ever happened rather than Call the Port Authority I showed up at their office with my colleague from onette if they were watching us were
they watching the Titan we had questions for the for the port authority about what you what you have seen questions about any concerns that you may have had about the Titan about the safety of the Titan the movements of the Titan all that yeah and clearly you if you're watching us you must have be watch we we were in a sense however it didn't happen on our property it happened on private property but you're getting to it's getting tow right it did get to yeah the P so it's at that point it we sa
w that on camera while the Port Authority watched the Titan there's no indication they questioned Rush The Vessel was uncertified which meant there was no certification standard to hold it to it was like a ghost ship with paying passengers on board and as the YouTuber video shows pilot Boats were even guiding the polar prints out to sea with the Titan in tow there were no secrets in St John's Harbor back on the North Atlantic on June 18th there was a problem an hour and 45 minutes into the dive
the polar Prince lost contact with the sub billionaire businessman John rizley is co-owner of the Polar Prince this is his first TV interview about the ill-fated Expedition when did you learn that in this particular instance something had gone terribly wrong on the Sunday afternoon uh when the vessel made its last dive sea Lee the company CEO Horizon CEO called me and said uh that we'd lost comms with a submersible I then asked okay what's our what's our protocol if you like what do we do in the
se situations cuz it wasn't the first time and the protocol was was that you wait a certain amount of time and after a certain amount of time you haven't been able to estab establish communication uh then you notify the Coast Guard you said it wasn't the first time it was not the first time that we'd lost Cons with the vessel do you know in the in the previous instances how long periods would have gone with where you yeah I I can't tell you I just don't know that but uh I know that Stockton's wi
fe who was on board the vessel and was unconcerned about the fact that they'd lost communication because it had happened times before how many times I can't tell you and then within a reasonable window Communications were reestablished but this time Communications were lost and the polar Prince did not have an ROV or robotic sub on board to search for the Titan what was the backup plan what what happens if if things went terribly wrong what could you do um call the Coast Guard um I mean that's y
ou know when when you're in trouble at Sea there isn't really a backup plan you call for help was that ever a discussion when when this this Venture began what do we do if things go wrong do we need to be equipped with with um some sort of uh search and rescue equipment on site nearby that would have been a decision for in this case our customer not us more than 7 hours after losing contact with the sub the US Coast Guard was finally contacted when we come back I got a call Sunday afternoon it w
as June 18th that there was an overdue submersible with five people on board on the tight site of the Titanic the Titan had only 96 hours of oxygen to keep the crew alive so if ocean Gate's contingency plan was calling in the Coast Guard help was a long way away now of course we get aircraft on scene sooner but to get vessels on scene we're talking days not hours [Music] okay I'm good far away there there was a glimmer of hope this morning in the search for Titan as Canadian aircraft picked up b
anging underwater noise in the search area however Crews have yet to be able to pinpoint the source of that noise meanwhile time is running out in the search for Titan it is expected that there is only less than 24 hours of oxygen left for the five who are on board with each passing hour the hope of finding Titan's crew alive was fading as this data from Marine Traffic shows a small Armada of planes and ships from the US Canada France and Britain searched thousands of square kilometers in the No
rth Atlantic 3 days after The Disappearance of the Titan The Horizon Arctic once the Titan support ship left St John's with a deep sea ROV flown in from the US it only took the sub a couple of hours to confirm The Rescuer worst fears this is a incredibly unforgiving uh environment down there uh on the sea Flor uh and uh the debris is consistent with a catastroph uh implosion of the vessel St John's was once again a backdrop to a disaster at Sea soon after the Horizon Arctic returned with Salvage
pieces of the Titan the questions began including why so many hours had passed before Ocean Gate first alerted the Coast Guard that they lost Communications with the Titan the big question and a lot of people have been asking is why did it take 7 hours before finally the the captain would would put out a distress signal about the fact that they had lost contact with the Titan so uh let me ask or answer the question with another question would have made it a difference would what difference woul
d it have made if if we'd notified the Coast Guard you know five minutes after we'd lost communication and what was the Coast Guard going to do and there was no magic wand here uh I mean we don't know now whether or not the moment that Communications were lost was also the moment where the submarine you know suffered some sort of a structural failure of some sort right we don't know that in other words did the Titan implode before it reached the ocean floor while the Canadian Coast Guard refused
our interview request the US Coast Guard agreed to talk it was a difficult moment it's a moment that you as a search and rescue professional that you never want to deal with you always want to bring people home safely that's what we do the sub was a little more than halfway to the Titanic when sonar detected an unusual underwater sound we received that information early in the efforts from the United States Navy that they detected an anomaly um that may have been consistent with a implosion um
but they were unable to tell us with 100% certainty that that's what it was and quite frankly in the business of search and rescue we work in certainties only you say you operate with certainty so what was the certainty that was was um conveyed to you to know that this was no longer a a rescue mission but a recovery Mission yeah so when the um pelagic ROV the odesus um reached the ocean floor on Thursday morning um they first detected a tail cone one of the next pieces of debris they found was t
he large um capsule uh door the glass window and at that point it it was obvious that there had been a complete failure of the pressure capsule and at that point um we knew that the vessel was lost Titanic filmmaker James Cameron is also a subd designer and an ocean gate critic I would submit that there's a terrible irony here here we have at at the rec of Titanic we now have another wreck that is based on unfortunately the same principles of not heaing warnings speculation immediately turned to
the Titans design and that carbon fiber Hull you know the community our community of of deep ocean Engineers spoke out against it quite quite loudly and the warnings were unheated surface is clear you are okay to surface over Rog we're at 10 me we're coming up we'll come up just by the Boe we go we are [Music] back look Ocean Gate clearly did not help the cause here right so between the ambiguity uh and the the willful intent of kind of getting around stuff uh it was just the perfect storm foll
owing a noteworthy year marked by the Ocean Gate tragedy we an industry have been drawn into the public Spotlight the private sub industry safety record is now in tatters leaving experts who warn Stockton Rush about the Titan back in 2018 wondering could they have done more do you wish you had had sounded the alarm with the Coast Guard US Canadian with other authorities using your expertise your experience your voice to say stop this thing we tried we seriously tried and it was done with the bes
t intentions and love and we care and we are over cliche of Brotherhood in this industry and we know we can do some good to the planet and we invite everybody be part but it's a two-way street and and it does make us sad it it it it it it it because it did this did not have to happen Ocean Gate declined to be interviewed for this story the US Coast Guard's Maritime Board of investigation and the Canadian Transportation safety board are now reviewing what went wrong but the implosion of the Titan
was so violent the precise cause of the tragedy may be impossible to pinpoint I'd like to be remembered as an innovator um I think it was General MacArthur said you're remembered for the rules you break and you know I've broken some rules to make this I think I've broken them with with logic and good engineering behind me the carbon fiber and titanium there's a rule you don't do that well I did I will forever regret exposing my son to that ever risk like shazada dawood who died with his son in
the Titan Colin Taylor wanted to share an epic adventure with his son he trusted Stockton Rush could safely take them down to the Titanic and back so I think um and and what what they knew and what I think a lot of you know a lot of people that are familiar with carbon fiber and the stresses and cycles that run was that there was a shelf life and so there's a certain number of cycles that that was capable of and and they knew it had a shelf life so so given that do you feel lucky yes yeah we do
and I think the difference between our dive and the Fatal dive was two Dives which was the difference of life and death yeah while the Titan was a preventable tragedy today there is nothing in place to stop it all from happening again Adventure tourism is in high demand and sub certification is not mandatory but even with more oversight danger will always be part of the package when exploring the ocean deep I think there's something very human about wanting to explore and I think the people that
got on that um including us we knew we were test pilots you don't get get on a ship like that oil rig service ship and motor out to the middle of the North Atlantic and get in a carbon fiber tube and go down 4 kilometers to the bottom of the ocean and not know there's some risk involved for
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