Xbox Goes Multi-Platform: Microsoft’s New Gaming Strategy Revealed

- Hello, and welcome to "The Pop Off," PCMag's video game show. I'm Jordan Minor. There's a lot going on with Xbox in the past weeks, days, really the past, like, 25 years. - Yeah. - That this whole thing has existed, but it's really been heating up. So we're gonna talk about all the Xbox drama, news, all that. So joining me here, we have Zack. - Hello Jordan, nice to be back in studio, in person, with people. - Yeah, you're touching me. - Yeah, this is the first time. I didn't say you could do

that. - Oh, I didn't mean, sorry, I should have asked first. - So, up of you. - And Gabe. - I am here. This is Gabriel Zamora, the first time actually in person recording one of these, which is nice. - Cool. So let's, we're talking about, you know, that's a good beginning of the year of us being together. So let's talk about the end of the Xbox. - Oh yeah, wow, long time coming. - No, so. - Depending on who you asked. - So the Xbox isn't going away, obviously, but there were all these rumors tha

t kind of kicked up, you know, toward the beginning of this year that, oh, Xbox are gonna put Starfield on PlayStation, Indiana Jones and all their games, all their exclusive games, and bring them on multiple platforms. And it got people wondering like, well, why, what's the strategy? What's happening to the Xbox? So Phil Spencer and Matt Booty and Sarah Bond, you know, their leadership team, they had this podcast that could have been an email where they laid out at least the kind of the first c

oncrete details of this strategy where they said, "No, it's not our whole lineup, it's just these four games." And, that's all we're talking about right now. I don't think that's the end of it, we can talk about kind of what we think the future is, but first let's talk about just what the four games are and kind of our thoughts thoughts on that. - Which they didn't announce it at the time, so now we know, thanks to yesterday's Nintendo Direct, we know those four games are "Pentiment", "Hi-Fi Rus

h", "Sea of Thieves" and "Grounded". All smaller tier games, I would say, like B tier games. - Well, I would call "Hi-Fi Rush" and Pentiment:, but acclaimed kind of B-tier games. - Yeah. - But "Sea of Thieves" and "Grounded", I think are, they're like more live service games. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. They've been around for a little longer too. - Right. And those are games that just need a critical mass of players to stay relevant. - Right. - Yeah. - I was expecting those, those seem like the safest

games to cross over and the ones that make the most sense. I mean, last year, "Hi-Fi Rush", I mean, you'd got, I mean, I thought it was one of the better games of the year, and one of Xbox brightest that I think got overshadowed by the wealth of other 2023 hits. I'm glad to see "Hi-Fi Rush" finding a larger audience potentially on the PS5 and "Pentiment", which is on the Switch in the PS5, also a great game that was overlooked. And I mean, you know, Game Pass is great because you get these day o

ne releases, but there's so much content on Game Pass, so many different games of different qualities, stuff like that. And a game like "Pentiment" can easily get overshadowed by that. So it's nice to see it get some, like a resurgence, you know, another chance at life. - What do you think, Gabe? - Fair enough. I mean, I think that like some of these games did slip my radar in all honesty. Like, I actually was trying to remember what "Pentiment" was at first, I'm like, "What game was that again?

" I know, I played and loved "Hi-Fi Rush", and it's definitely a game that I think should get a bigger audience. It was very clever with how it used the timing mechanics and all that. I love action game, that's my thing. So for me, any reason to play an action game, it's just great. So I might even pick it up a second time in all honesty. I mean, technically I didn't pick it up the first time they sent me code, so I might buy. - You're doing just doing your job. - I'm doing my job. So I might ac

tually buy a copy this time on PlayStation. And like, as you were saying, like with the live service games, it does make sense, it could be maybe, I don't know, this is all speculation that the gamer population in these games are dwindling and they're just kind of opening up the market a little bit to get more players in, some fresh blood. I don't really feel any particular way about this like negatively, it seems like a positive overall. That being said, not to change the subject, but Xbox hasn

't really been releasing a whole lot lately anyways. - Yeah. - So I think that's more of my concern, it's less to do with them sharing their games and making them multi-platform, and more where are the games period? Where are the games? - Yeah. - You know, Starfield is okay, I'm not a big, you know. - It's okay, yeah. - Not a big Bethesda sort of RPG sort of guy. But it's fine. It is what it is. But what else are we gonna get? Like Xbox is buying so many IPs and so many companies, and I understa

nd that the Activision thing just went through only a few months ago. - Yeah. - They don't have anything to show for it yet. But announce something, you don't have to show gameplay yet, but like, "Hey, we're working on something to kind of assuage the concerns of your fan base." And, you know, how much is an Xbox now? Like 400 bucks or something? 300 bucks. - Something like that, yeah. - You want to know that your investment is worthwhile. You don't wanna sit there with a paperweight in the back

room wondering, "Well, what am I gonna do with this?" - But to that end, Gabe, they've also announced so many games already that we have not heard much. - "Everwild". - "Everwild". - And Fable whatever. - Yeah. - Okay. - And so like the developer. - "Perfect Dark". - I thought the Developer Direct was great because it showed a lineup of games that are actually coming out this year. - Hmm. - So it actually, I think for the first time since the Series X release, I felt excited about what Xbox wou

ld be producing. - And those games are "Avowed", I believe, and "Indiana Jones and The Great Circle". - Yes. - The "Hellblade". - "Hellblade Two". Yeah, that got a date for May. - Yes. That is true. - So yeah, but yeah, I kind of a. - Good strategy game, I forget what it's called. - Yeah, I forget too. That's 'cause. - Yeah, that was kind of my going back to that, you guys are absolutely right, they did announce some games. - I was about to agree with you though about. - Yeah, it's nothing I rea

lly cared about, unfortunately, I don't really care about Indiana Jones. I don't really you know. - And also the value of these exclusives, if there's now this doubt in your mind, like, "Oh, if I just wait a year." - Yeah, exactly. - They probably will come to other platforms. - And like they said that these games are going to be, like these four, they have no plans for anything after. And these four games are coming out pretty soon. Pentiment"'s already out. - Yeah. - "Hi-Fi Rush" comes out in

March and Grounded in April. - Yeah. - And "Sea Of Thieves", I assume maybe it'll take a little longer, but. - I think it's April as well, so soon. - So, right. They had these at the ready. They just need to get more games out the door. And I think, the way they spoke in the podcast to me felt like they wanted to shift a perception of how games are coming out. You know, like when they talked about exclusives. I think that games have become so expensive, in order to make money off of these balloo

ning budgets, they have to factor in releasing outside of their main hardware. You know. I mean, 200 million, $300 million budget, you need to sell millions of copies to make that back. And if the game doesn't hit and it flops, then that just means. - It kills the whole studio. Yeah. - It kills the whole studio, another studio goes down with it. I think the way he spoke about exclusives was a little concerning 'cause to me it didn't seem like they were going to change what they were doing. That

they were going to continue putting out these high budget games. And yeah, if they hit, we might get this beautiful cinematic like gorgeous game, but if they don't, you know, pop off to hit a rank. (Zack imitating bell ringing) But if they don't pop off the way they want them to, then they're going to I think, expand their borders a little more. - I mean, I'm no economist, I'm just a simple country hyper chicken, but Microsoft has like a trillion dollar market cap. - They are, yeah. - They're a

gigantic company, and again, they're spending billions of dollars on these acquisitions. They are like going to the mat fighting the government over it. - Yeah. - So on one hand, you're right. But on the other hand, it's like, it becomes almost like this weird vicious cycle for them where it's like we're spending all this, you would think that the reason to make these acquisitions would be to get exclusives. - Yeah, yes. - But then they've acquired so much that's so big that now they kind of for

ced themselves that they can't make them exclusive because that would just be a loss of money. - Right, and that's just weird. - They can't make "Call of Duty" exclusive. They can't make "Minecraft" and "World of Warcraft", like all these things now are just already multi-platform. - Yeah. - Right. - And they're going to continue at least for 10 years or so. I know at least "Call of Duty" is going to be for everyone for the next 10 years at least. - Yeah. I think that, I mean, you know, they'll

say this, the thing that they're betting on is that, they'll have the option for anyone to get in however they want, but they're gonna try to steer people towards Game Pass. - Yeah. - As their vision of becoming like the Netflix of games. But we were saying kind of off mic that Game Pass subscriptions are not like phenomenal. - For the longest time I was under the assumption that Game Pass was really, really just hitting these high numbers. And I think comparatively there. - It was like 30 some

million. - So it's about like what Nintendo Switch is getting with the subscriptions, which is good, and it's not bad, but it's not really like outstandingly, like, oh my God, everybody's got this sort of thing. - Yeah. - Like I was under the assumption that this is just like. - And they don't report. - Crazy for subscriptions and that's not really case. - They don't report the Xbox sales anymore. So you can't really Game Pass to. - Because they're bad. - Well, yeah. (Zack laughing) - Because th

ey're kind of mid. - Yeah. - And also, you know, they were also just spending so much money on Game Pass to kind of all lure companies to put their stuff on it. So again, who even knows what the economics of that. - Right. - I mean, that's just the economics of all streaming services. - Yeah. - And I'm also not factoring in, you know, like you're saying economics, like the subscription to like Nintendo is like, what, $20 a year as opposed to Xbox Live, which is $15 a month or something like that

. So obviously the numbers add add up. - Oh, it's Xbox Game Pass quarter. - Game Pass. - Right, exactly. But that's a good point too of like, you know, semantics, but like, Xbox Live was a really powerful brand. - It was. - Oh yes, exactly that. - So they kind of assumed. - Yes. - They've kind of lost all of that though. I don't know. I feel like for me, the Xbox currently, and I don't wanna disparage, but it's the only way I can play my old Xbox games. So this is like the kind of like emulation

machine, not emulation, but you know what I mean. - The retro classic game. - You know, the backwards compatible console, which is great. - You know, they've been great in that arena for years. - Right, and that's. - They also haven't updated that arena. - And they don't intend to, supposedly they said that their last Xbox, what was it, the backwards compatibility update would be the last one that they have. - Yeah. - And there's still some games that kind of wish I could play again. Like I've

been itching to play "Anarchy Reigns". - Nice. - And I can't play it anymore. My Xbox 360 doesn't work. So I'm stuck. And then Platinum's not gonna port a PC 'cause the sales were abysmal. So what am I supposed to do? Can't really enjoy that game. And then, I don't know, I wanna be able to play like a new Ninja Gaiden game on Xbox and be like, yeah, this is worth it. I don't feel that way anymore. Like it's fine. - But yeah, that's a good point about just about the legacy stuff. Like, we joke ab

out, oh, Xbox is going away, who cares? Whatever. But like, there's lots of people who have been invested in the Xbox ecosystem for like decades. - Exactly, exactly. - Wanna know that their games are safe and that, you know, I have Series S, I love it. It's affordable. It's the only next gen console that isn't like, completely hideous. So I like having it around. And also just in terms of keeping the industry like competitive and. - Oh, absolutely. - Removing one of these kind of big players I t

hink would just be bad for the industry, I think. - Yeah. - So, you know, they've limited right now just these four games, but I don't think that that'll, it'll keep going, yeah. So what do we, yeah, what do we see as them doing, what do we see as the kinda the next steps of the strategy, I guess? - Well, I was gonna say, I think they're gonna keep Activision stuff multi-platform. I think everything that's already multi-platform, they're going to continue doing that, "Minecraft" is like a beast

of its own, they're not gonna change any of that. And "Call of Duty" is also going to rule every system. The thing I thought that was interesting about Microsoft's third party output, so far, a lot of it has been smaller studios and studios that I guess aren't the main Microsoft game studios like, Obsidian, Obsidian is responsible for "Grounded" and "Pentiment" And the folks, it's a Bethesda developer, but they did a "Hi-Fi Rush". - Tango Game Works, Tango. - Yes, yeah. Which are fairly small an

d Rare, which I mean, you know, I love Rare, but I love Rare because I'm 31 years old, they haven't really put anything out that really like struck a chord with me in decades, but Rare, it's also kind of like a, I wanna say it's not quite. - We used to call them second parties back in the day, even though they are fully owned by Microsoft. - No, they're definitely swinging I think second tier. But that aside, I mean, these are, I don't mean to say second tier in a derogatory way, but these are n

ot Microsoft's heavy hitters. No "Halos". - Right. - No "Gears of War", stuff that's like cemented in the minds of gamers as like Xbox branded. - Right, yeah. - I don't think any of that is gonna come by anytime soon. But I think that other Bethesda, I think Starfield has a chance of maybe coming, I mean, apparently also it was in the works for the PS5 before Microsoft stepped. - Right, I mean, that Redfall as well, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. Yeah 'cause you know, that acquisition was like 2020 and t

hat game is way older than 2020. - So I think that there's credence for some of those games that aren't really cemented in gamers minds at Xbox games and especially other games that I think mesh with other systems, perhaps in a genre sense or a visual sense. I thought "Hi-Fi Rush" and "Pentiment" to me made perfect switch games. And even though "Hi-Fi Rush" didn't make it on the on Switch, "Pentiment" I feel like is perfect type of Switch game. You want to take that game with you to play it. And

it's such a like, pleasant game of. - It's not super technically demanding. - Right, it's pleasant to look at no matter the screen, so it's the perfect, I think the perfect game to kind of like lay up, you know, with a seven inch tablet away, just in front of your face. - Someone on the street ask you, "Should I buy an Xbox? Yes or no?" - No. - Okay. I kind of agree at this point. - I mean, in Xbox's defense, please don't kill me here, but if someone asked me if a PS5 was worth it, I'd be like,

unless it's something you really wanna play on it, that's also not worth it either. But that's beside. - Sony also bringing lots of their games to PC as well. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - "Helldivers 2", we just saw it was day and day. - Yes. And I think that, I mean, speaking to "Helldivers 2", that's definitely going to be part of their plan going forward. They're definitely gonna consider more day one PC ports. And I mean, you know, I know we're dogging on the Xbox, but Sony is not clear of any w

rongdoing. I mean, if there's no, I mean, if someone asked me like "Xbox or PS5?", I mean, like there's like five PS5 exclusives. - Yeah. - And. - Two of 'em were Spider-Man. - Yeah, yeah, right. - Yeah. - So yeah, it's kind of nuts how we're four years into this thing and still there's really nothing to speak for it. - You were gonna say? - Yeah, it's just my thing is that I think the biggest issue, kind of going back to what we were talking about before is that a lot of these games, they're li

ke AAA or as Ubisoft claimed, quadruple A with ridiculously bloated budgets. And because of that and because they're constantly like testing these things and QAing everything, it has to be this online service nonsense, you're not getting any games out anytime soon. There's no like, you know, double A games, A games, B games. Like you guys aren't putting anything out, you're just putting all your eggs in one basket, which is, we need a live service game that's gonna do gangbusters. And then it do

esn't happen, you guys lose money and then you just throw it out, six months later, no one cares about the game anymore 'cause nobody's playing it. Now you onto the next project, four years later in, you're in another trash game that nobody wants to play. And it's just like, you could release smaller games. Like "Helldivers" is doing really well right now. - Oh yeah. - And that was a $30 game. - And compare the, 40, but. - $40. - But compare the numbers to "Suicide Squad" and "Suicide Squad", mi

llions of dollars, nine year development cycle. - Yeah. - This is "Helldivers 2". Much shorter, much cheaper. And overall. - And these are games that I wanna play, like go on social media right now and everybody's talking about "Helldivers", they're like, wow, this is really fun. Democracy, great stuff. - Let the record show I called "Helldivers". - Yeah, I still kind of don't believe you, honestly. (Zack laughing) - I called it, I was like, this might be the game of the month. - Yeah. - And jus

t, you know, this kind of scenario you're describing it too, I feel like it was just kind of healthier for workers, you know? - Oh, definitely. - We're seeing waves and waves of gigantic layoffs because these big games they spent or years of their lives on don't hit. Or also though like, you know, they'll leave the studio during the development process and kind of even can't like claim that they. - Yeah. - Like it's really important to say that you like shipped a game on your resume. - Right. -

And so they can't even claim that. You know, just having more smaller games would kind of help from that end as well. - Yeah. - The kinda last thing I'll say here is, yeah, some of what we're seeing is sort of broader market forces, I think the multi-platform stuff is just, the way that they're just kind of going. - Yeah. - Because you know, they need to just expand their audience even at the expense of the hardware. - Yeah. - It's kinda almost like the evolution of the hardware being sold at a

loss. - Yeah. - To, you know, to get more people in for the games, which is a real business. So I think that is kind of, some of that is inevitable and not even like the worst thing in the world. - Yeah. - But I do think that Xbox in particular is operating from like this real place of weakness, which is weird to not acknowledge, I feel. - Yeah. - Like they are like, I think more so than they need to like devaluing their hardware and if they're okay with that, they're okay with that. - Yeah. - B

ut. - I think even mentioning that they have a bigger, like a stronger, more powerful system on the horizon that they're already thinking about is devaluating the Series X even further. - Right, yeah. - Further. - Yeah, on one hand it's trying to reaffirm like, you know, reassure people, "Hey, we're not leaving", but also like this. - Yeah. - Kick to the curb. - One step ahead of that, we don't care about that anymore. I don't know, I feel like they've been playing defense since the Xbox One. -

Yeah. - Like once they dropped the ball with that, they've just been racing to catch up and they just haven't quite gotten there yet. - The 360 is a gigantic fluke I feel the more time goes by. The system was fantastic, it was great, it was hugely innovative, had a ton of great games and they've not been able to. - Nope. - A real Sega Genesis for our era. - They've never been able to recapture the Blade dashboard. - Right. - Like, look at this, what is this? Hate it. I don't hate it, but you kno

w what I mean. - So Xbox, you know, I have one, I play it. Games keep coming out for it. As PCMag, I feel like we're especially kind of following, you know, Microsoft's whole business here. So yeah, we'll see. I mean, yeah, so "Hellblade" is there. - "Hellblade Two" is their next kind of big game. We'll see. - Right, that's in April or so, right? - Yes, in May, yeah, April or May. So we'll see how that does for them. We'll see Indiana Jones, "Avowed", we'll play these games on other systems and

see how that goes. - Yeah, and who wants to play Indiana Jones? Oh, maybe that, is that crazy to say? - Well, I don't like Indiana Jones. - I don't like Indiana Jones that much either. - But I care about this game because it's the Wolfenstein people. - That, okay. - And those games are great. - And yeah. - Yeah. - I just feel like this is their Spider-Man, right? - Yeah, but I like that first person. I think that's cool. I like that people got mad about that. (Zack chuckles) But that's not till

end of the year. - We'll come back to it. - We'll circle back to Indiana Jones games. But Zack, Gabe, thanks so much for joining us here to, for this eulogy for Xbox. (people laughing) We'll all remember Jay Allard and his jean, no, his suit jacket hoodies that he would wear on stage. - That's right. - So with that, we'll talk to you next time.