hey everybody and welcome to another episode of the elsewhere exchange I am s and I'm Joel so there's this uh funny little show that's out on Disney plus right now I don't know if anybody's been watching it but uh it's a Revival of a short-lived adaptation of a very Niche comic book series I can imagine a lot of people have really missed the boat on this one so I'm bring people up to speed about it but it's called X-Men 97 of course 1997 was a year that took place long before people who are watc
hing the show were alive um but that being said yes uh the the joke is now over and uh X-Men 97 is a huge success according to Disney plus yeah which man you know the success of it makes me laugh because there was a point where I'm like man you know marvel there was so much meat left on the bone the crco A and you're doing this multimedia Blitz with the toys and the new books and just hey we're selling Christmas 1997 back to you surely something so transparent won't end up being a huge success o
h it was a massive success oh they totally right Marvel to sell me back Christmas 1997 cuz they actually know me pretty well well you win this one Marvel who would have thought it's it's actually uh to talk a little bit before we get into our topic which today is we're going to pitch Spider-Man 98 uh even though Spider-Man I don't you know X-Men 97 I don't think it it doesn't matter the point is we're talking about X-Men 997 Spider-Man 98 if they did a Revival of the Marvel action hour Fantastic
4 cartoon we call it fantastic 4.99 you know it doesn't matter is this the thing now is this going to be the trend the brand I think it's the I mean like I think there is like a brand here although knowing Disney they probably just call it Spider-Man 97 like the the brand is 97 we're talking about shows that existed in the mid 90s and we're going to revive them because SP because both Iron Man and Fantastic 4 and Incredible Hulk all took place before 97 anyway so we could actually 97 all those
shows the only one we we probably couldn't is Silver Surfer but that's fine because they could re-release Silver Surfer and everyone would see it for the first time this is also true because I don't know if Joel did you ever watch the Silver Surfer cartoon uh yes I did they used to play it really late at night on Teleton back during the day and I had insomnia even back then as a kid that was the first time I saw Gamora and Thanos and many of these other obscure ass Marvel Cosmic things that that
show was going for it a lot of things where it's like okay Spider-Man's been done X-Men's been done okay give us all the Obscure ones yeah yeah and they were very much of course in bed with toy Biz toybiz was pretty much a parent company for Marvel at that time so there was a there was an incentive to Showcase all these different you know Fantastical action figure type characters like we could do Nova but not Richard Ryder Nova no no no heral of galatis Nova and it all worked for whatever reaso
n that show is a really great example of what it's like to read a Silver Surfer comic which is also uh a way of saying that the book and show uh we're super Bor yeah I mean man if you love monologues the guy they got to play Thanos monologued like a [ __ ] in well so did uh so did Silver Surfer nor R is always just like oh woe is me am I cursed to roam the cosmics the cosmos pretty much but uh but anyway uh we're GNA talk about Spider-Man and its Revival and the fact that it should be inevitable
given that Disney has the rights to make a short form live or short form animated Spider-Man show uh Without Really Sony's approval but I can imagine Sony being like Oh yeah no we we we'll give you everything you need as long as we get to like sup upon the tee that is uh the Marvel Juggernaut asking for it instantly like after 97 came out was a big deal people were asking for Spider-Man instantly I'm like who whoa guys calm down we we just got a good X-Men show can you wait a minute must your c
up always be filled it's true it's like like and I remember reading a thing on Twitter from one of the animators uh people were talking about how excited they were about like how Cyclops was being depicted and all that and uh one of the animators was like oh that like 30 second bit of Animation I worked on two years ago I'm like yeah this show has been in production for a while like it's it takes a long time to get a show that looks this good and is this tight uh to get out there which is why it
's like that I think that's also a part of the reason why we're like let's talk about Spider-Man because come on like if you weren't already thinking about doing it if you already haven't green lit it a year ago then what are we doing here because we're not going to get Spider-Man 98 until like you know the year 2028 right and we're still supposed to get that Spider-Man freshman year that might not be freshman year anymore because it is still coming up but they've had to rework it a couple times
apparently now right we saw that like two years ago like we've seen art for that show and and we don't even know what the hell it is and I I strongly suspect that neither do they cuz I'm sure it was meant to be in continuity at one point then it was it then they probably moved it back and they're like but we built it like this oh they were like the weird thing was like the like the way it was presented it looked like it was always G to be like a Marvel Cinematic Universe adjacent show where it'
s like well what if Norman OS show up instead of Tony yeah yeah like what if we took all the Hallmarks of Spider-Man from the MCU but replaced all the MCU elements with just hardcore Spider-Man stuff but also Doctor Strange Daredevil were there yeah and Charlie Cox was going to be in it but then they weren't sure if Charlie Cox was coming back for liveaction now he is so clearly they've had to rework that one which is a shame too because I really want to see that show because that's the Craig of
the creek guy and that guy kicks ass and he's a Super Fan so I really want to see what he does with the material that's the thing man I uh I don't know if I necessarily want that but the thing is it's such an unknown that uh after the proven commodity that is X-Men 97 it's like well just do the just do that and I understand the pr to do it like why wouldn't Marvel just go like so wait we could try to like make up our own stuff yeah or we could could just get talented people to just with a with
a really really solid foundation and go do this but for streaming so we don't have to worry about sensors and stuff and and like 97 already proved so well where it's like look did you grow up with it do you have an encyclopedic knowledge of this show awesome you'll be well served did you not did you not don't worry because we'll dispense with all the hard continuity stuff in episode one with guy and master mold in the Sentinels and everything and then we'll be on to new [ __ ] yeah yeah big time
so the template that is X-Men 97 first of all big success people are very excited about it uh it's it's taken like wildfire to social media getting people super hyped for stories that are almost 30 to 40 years old at this point which is what's really baking my noodle at this point absolutely no it's a great thing though because it means a hopefully we're selling more books B uh we're utilizing the machine properly and I say that in the way where I'm like you know I I keep seeing these MCU folks
being like Oh like like what is what is quantam Mania adapted from you know what I mean like there is no one to there's nothing you know these people are like oh I'm creative and I'm like yeah but you are also ignoring 80 years of continuity in stories we had the quantum verse we had Kang make it work yeah what does that mean and with this it's like yeah no you know what use the damn thing these we have Inferno we have techno organic virus yeah like we got these ideas we got these we have these
really tight solid stories that have been beloved for decades and these were all I mean like if you want to look at it the most shrewd cynical terms uh these were all work for higher things anyway so right you could just mine them every 10 years like you could just say oh um here's the idea uh and you just grab like literally just X-Men volumes one through 20 from the essential collection and go this is the show season 1 two three four and and the X-Men show at its best was really good about th
at weren't they when it came to adapting old stories and in many times that sometimes they do it in one or two episodes sometimes you'd have like an 8 12p part dark Phoenix song where it's like no well we need the time to tell this one yeah especially because we also have to rework it because I don't think Gambit and Wolverine R anywhere near that Phoenix suck also that also they're not afraid to rework it which hey you know for this Spider-Man show we're going to have to rework some stuff too i
t'll be fun oh yeah so with the Spider-Man show the idea is we're going to follow the formula such that it is because there is no formula Xmen 97 was just like I think the idea and I think it's pretty it's it's a pretty like solid Theory at this point is when the pandemic hit and Disney plus launched people watched X-Men the Animated Series in droves and it immediately green lit a Revival show it's good binging and I imagine that Spider-Man was the the only reason they didn't go immediately to S
pider-Man is because they didn't Own It wholesale it's because they were like n it's kind of dicey we need to rework the contract anyway but uh with respect to this and also if you twisted my arm the X-Men show was a little better than the Spider-Man show loved the crossover though I think you personally ruined that Spider-Man show for me forever when you said he never punches anyone I'm like no that's impossible he definitely punches people then I went back watch like oh my God s was right he d
oesn't yeah no he punches the spot one time but like it's also arguably that's that might be one of the worst episodes of the show which is saying something because that show was rough but uh but I also like look there it's a Beloved the thing is you you go back and rewatch X-Men thee series it's it is remembered fondly and unlike shows like Thundercats where I've Revisited that show I'm like this is unwatchable this is empty it's totally vacuous X-Men there's something there there's brilliant v
oice acting there's pretty solid and cool animation when it's working when it isn't working it's really dicey but when it is working it's it's working on all cylinders especially that like that the the first two-part opening night of the Sentinel story is just like holy crap we're in absolutely it speaks just the endearing power of X-Men 2 where it's like this story works these characters work and they can work in any era in any time period yeah unfortunately uh the X-Men's themes have transfere
nce every decade in American history or Western Civilization so uh we're going to be applying that concept to Spider-Man where it's like all right uh we're g to Xmen 97 this where oh well to finish my thought about X-Men 97 like or the original X-Men show it was good but it if you're going to revive it don't do oneto one like just grow it up a little bit um and so it is with Spider-Man Spider-Man the Animated Series a really great voice cast uh and and a genuine effort like I I want to say that
like John simper the showrunner was like yeah he was he really loved the show though I did not love it as much as he did and I would necess I wouldn't necessarily want John Seer at the helm of a Spider-Man 98 Revival given that like which is funny because I think he's still working he's still involved in stuff I think he did like a what is it a cyborg comic like not that long ago they like got him involved he's busy and it's like it's cool to see like a person of color working on absolutely a sh
ow like Spider-Man especially in 1994 totally but there's some decisions that I would question when it came to Spider-Man has nothing to do with the man it just has everything to do with like maybe it has everything to do with the censors but I've seen Seer do interviews over the decades and in at least one or two of them he's talked about how he's like I've heard ISM about the sensors and we didn't and I'm like well then how do you explain how neuter this show is like you mean to tell me okay s
o like it's like the difference between being like incompetent or stupid you know like or or or bad or stupid you know like either you were hamstrung by the sensors and that's why the show is so weird or you made a really weird show man either way Ian mean half of one half of the other I mean some of the stuff that show birth because of sensors issues still live on in fans minds they they had to be the Insidious six because they couldn't be the Sinister Six Sinister was too hardcore sinister's t
oo too strong a word too too serious I I can't believe some of the decisions that were made in Spider-Man 94 but it was clearly an attempt to a sell figures and be uh just get the just keep the show on the air just keep it keep and and keep the machine rolling and not have to deal with any censorship you meanwhile at the exact same time Batman the Animated Series is old and it's also pushing boundaries of like animation and censorship and story and you know uh applicability and and and and bendi
ng genre and reaching different uh audience ages and so forth but we're not here to bag on the Spider-Man animated series we're here to say because we liked it yeah exactly thing like as a kid I loved this show even though I was also like even though I was also like you are reusing animation at an obscene degree an obscene degree and I will also throw another show under the bus around the same time the spawn animated series also did the same thing these are also two shows little s desperately wa
nted to watch of course and also was watching religiously but was also not so blind as to not see the cracks that were forming in this in both shows but like the ReUse of Animation is always so agre so like again I'm just excited I I would be like all right you know what I'm just going to turn a blind eye and have you make a Spider-Man 98 as long as you use use the team that made X-Men 97 animation wise yeah because they did a beautiful job staying true to the designs of the original but also up
dating it for Modern Times And I think the best way they really showcase that is in the intro we kept the theme song the same we're not getting rid of the theme song we're just adding more stuff to it yeah yeah they and and we're showing you essentially like a one to one like we're replicating the intro but uh with our own animation and integrating some of the new ideas and making a couple of changes that like you know that that uh that like one side versus the other side that like come to a hea
d and have X-Men explode apparently that was a like we were told that it needed to have a ratio that matched the amount of X-Men running in One Direction Why like Thunderbird is on that side we just we just plucked a character out of The Ether and put him on that side of the bad guys there there was no tease there was no suggestion that he was going to be used it was just because we needed to even out the other side I like that that that little bit tidbit but also I like that they they cleaned i
t up totally but uh does my heart good now for for Spider-Man 99da obviously we would have to do the same right let's start with the intro we got to bring back radioactive spider blood spider blood yes though no the theme is the theme is solid I will say that they didn't um in the X-Men animated series intro they didn't just reuse the theme they redid the theme they did so I can imagine them redoing the theme uh for Spider-Man but they also got like Joe Perry to do the theme yeah from like Aeros
mith I don't know I feel like that's pretty hardcore but I could imagine I would love to hear what a you know what a what a team might do today given that like I mean to to quote Captain America aren't theme songs oldfashioned they are but that's why it's great yeah oh yeah no but it sets the tone the the the theme song I want to see the X-Men 97 and hopeful uh Spider-Man 98 shows uh I want those to help usher in a new era of theme songs because themes are so important because they set that tone
and other times dwarf the show itself because how fire they are lyrics is another thing the X-Men song famously lyric list the Spider-Man want actual lyrics limited lyrics but it has yeah spider blood and Spider-Man it's we don't we're good uh hey what's Zach wild doing these days let's get him just shred on that one for the open yes yes or get like Tina guo get some like electric violin in there but uh I like it yeah but redo the theme so that it is the theme again but modern or at least like
updated that'd be fine with me also it gives you an opportunity to showcase some of the characters that are gon to show up in the first season now the first season of course that we'd be pitching for Spider-Man 98 is going to have is gonna have its own baggage because there's a lot of questions that were left in the at the end of that series um and and by the way just to point out uh spiderverse was invented in Spider-Man the Animated Series was he had his own spiderverse years before we had Sec
ret Wars and spider wars uh all in the same season and so we we have that kind of like sort of Damocles over our heads because right we could be tempted to spider verse this or even tie it directly with the spider vers work I I was tempted to do that honestly when I was working on pitches and I'm like no no we can do time travel let's not do spiderverse let that be its own thing let's not have every Spider-Man thing become spiderverse adjacent because when you do that you water down spider first
e which honestly is kind of what the comics are doing now I had no idea there was still an edge of spiderverse book going on right now like what really and none of it matters and none of it touches anything I'm reading I agree I agree I'm I'm the exact same way uh so yes please let's let's leave that alone plus Sony would probably take issue with it anyway hey hey hey that's ours yeah whoa uh if we're if we have any right to do it where're it's it's going to be us uh so that's great that actuall
y that that alleviates some of the pressure of having to do any uh any any spider versus chicanery anyway uh and I feel like Sony's gonna be very uh it's hard pressed to let Madame Webb return given the the embarrassment that Madam Webb has become that no one saw coming no no see I say they should do Madam Webb but it's like nope this is me this is what I I'm an old Blind Lady in a chair this is what I've always been nothing else yeah I'm I am a plot device that's all I ever have been um so the
only thing that I think anyone really needs to have answered is where is Mary Jane is Mary Jane that's the big and apparently Seer had said uh in interviews that had he had a chance to do that he would have sent Spider-Man via Madame web on a time traveling journey and he would have found her in Victorian England but she would have completely lost her memory and then they would have done something with Carnage as Jack the Ripper yeah no thanks uh and this is this is why I'm saying hey let's star
t fresh here maybe um because that's also like how you get spraw that's how you get sins of the of the father part 12 MH you know that's how you get the neogenic nightmare I'm looking to avoid neogenic anything at this point those titles were pretty dope though let's bring those back I will say this about that Spider-Man CH it helped my vocabulary it made me break out dictionaries and learn words this is true so yeah uh certainly I think it taught every child plasma plasma plasma uh so yeah ther
e's a there's a lot of like things that are on the table that you could address um and unfortunately there's a lot of stuff that like they kind of already did like it would be really tempting to go back and go oh Mark H you're coming back you're going to be the Hop Goin I would love that so much but like we did the the The Saga of the Hobgoblin we didn't reveal the true identity of the Hobgoblin but we did for the all intense purposes of this show like it would not make sense for the true hobgob
lin to be revealed in this show so we can just throw that away uh but it freezes up to do other things and here's here's here's what it is so um with me I don't know about you about but when when it comes to Mary Jane I might X-Men 97 this and just do a time Jump and Mary Jane's already been rescued that's that's a pretty good idea and that actually ties in really closely to what I'm thinking because you know we can do all these old stories from years ago that will be brand new to people with tw
ists that will still blows people's mind that they didn't read the comics here's my pitch we dust off Pursuit but instead of the parents coming back as lmd uh plot devices as a part of a bigger plot with chameleon and Harry Mary Jane is back five years later oh no Mary Jane was actually an lmd this whole time you can't do that they just they did that in the show they made her a hydroman clone a whole season where they oh yeah she Fades away yeah it's been a couple years and that's where you get
Christopher Daniel barnes's amazing delivery of Mary J is he still doing stuff Christopher Daniel Barnes I feel like he'd be I'd love to see him come back in some variety I honestly I think just cast Christopher Daniel like I think he could be Spider-Man today he's still his voice yeah he's still playing Prince Eric from Little Mermaid like we could still keep Christopher Daniel Barnes I think that's like a cal DOD situation where it's like we're good it would sound weird if it wasn't him right
uh everyone else unfortunately like I think that you could definitely keep Jennifer hail as Felicia Hardy black yeah because she's still working she still works she's still great uh I I think Rosco LeBron uh yeah Rosco lebrown I think he passed away as Kingpin that sucks cuz he was awesome in that role that's a real shame yeah yeah he was amazing so You' need a new Kingpin but uh somebody would do the same thing I I believe I don't know I think Ed Asner is still alive but no he passed away no he
passed away in 2021 so uh I was gonna say either way we'd have to recast J Jonah Jameson despite the fact that I think Ed Asner may be one of the best J Jonah Jameson he really was I imagine they probably just get JK Simmons though there you go I mean Ed aard just killing it for years in so many roles like I I I was too young I missed his whole sitcom era yet he was a voice in every cartoon I grew up with so Ed hazner was as much a part of my life as it was my father's life in sitcoms yeah it's
true uh I uh I I would also uh keep Rodney Salsbury as or Salsbury as Robbie Robertson if you want to put Robie in the show I believe Linda Gary is no longer with us but uh I'll have to check that as well with the ant May situation again ant May it's like whatever just whatever like ant may can be anything there actually there were I think there were two antm's in that show anyway because one passed away and the other one replaced her and it was very noticeable so in a time on a tradition we're
just going to have another anme there you go you know but uh yeah there are a lot of really good actors in this because there's one that I really want to see come back um who I also believe passed away uh and that's okay because in the way I want to see him return he doesn't need to talk anyway so we're fine um but uh but anyway uh in the same token I I mean listen life theft SL Pursuit you could do two episodes yeah I know right the way that they truncate like Inferno into one episode I couldn
't believe that I'm like are they really going to do Inferno in 22 minutes they did Inferno in 22 minutes she just shows up I'm the goblin Queen now don't ask why I picked that name it is what it is and I'm like that's fine she's like go to Tik Tok and find out why yeah I know right but uh yeah no same way like Pursuit it's too it's Meandering but like you could do three episodes one episode the parents return MH second episode the parents Minds yeah second episode the parents are robots yep thi
rd episode Spider-Man gets revenge on the chameleon holy [ __ ] and also everyone would be like who I didn't think the chameleon was this cool I don't remember him being this much of a schemer exactly plus you could also bring in the vulture who of course already has been established in this show as an energy vampire so vulture can kill the parents and then become young forever ever and have like this kind of trans fix look on his like we got that um we can also establish like we could depending
on how many episodes we're doing I think if it's Eight Episodes right that's the gold standard for streaming now and I don't know when that became the gold standard for streaming everything now I I honestly I I think it's arbitrary and I think it's just because Hollywood loves putting things in boxes with labels on them this is so it's like streaming what is it animation Eight Episodes what is streaming what is it does it have boobs in it all right uh that's going to be uh 10 episodes is is it
also like at eight episodes do they not need to pay people as much is there some sort of like cut off rule I wouldn't be shocked the thing and this is applicable to any situation by the way folks so feel free to take this at home um if ever you encounter a circumstance whether it's business or life uh but more importantly with business or or entertainment uh if someone or an entity is doing something that makes absolutely no sense it completely eyes reason and reality assume that who whoever is
in charge of it is getting paid an obscene amount of money oh yeah to do that thing and then it suddenly becomes really clear why this inexplicable thing is happening just assume that whoever is responsible for it is deeply corrupt and is doing it to fill their pocket and [ __ ] someone else over you'll be right nine times out of 10 and I'm and there's like a 1% accounting for error so uh with respect to that see the three episodes boom that's a fun that's a fun thing too because you get to retu
rn the parents you could have Aunt May hell you could do okay because because I think Joel you approached this from the perspective of well was happening in 1994 to8 right that's my thing because the X-Men was very good about that too where it's like okay what's topical what's happening now the the fear with Spider-Man is that when you do that it's like oh no do we have to touch on Jackal and clones eventually because that was happening at this time no because they already did it no what's great
is the cartoon show already did clones so we're good true no what dead cuz taking your idea using your idea of of of the of the parents return and the pursuit Arc and bringing chameleon back is that you get this you get this Trilogy of of of of a story arc where you open one of the fun things about uh one of the best things about the like parents return Arc was the last battle between Spider-Man and Venom that ended in a truce that's right that did happen Spider-Man's parents come back and and
also it dovetails into another seminal and and and of beloved Spider-Man story so get get ready for this here we go here we in our webs let's let's Spider-Man's parents return let's say in episode three I like it uh because then it gives us three episodes to have fun slash te up what's going on because like the the first the first episode should be spider like Mary Jane's back yes we're just celebrating it right he he found her in the intervening five years we'll say or whatever he jumped ahead
exactly in fact you know what I I'll even go go so far to pitch this so first episode he found her they're married it's done we don't need to worry about that stuff anymore that's the open that's the first story and the Second Story the first story and we'll and we'll leave that as a placeholder like that'll be a fun adaptation we can do but we'll put that on the do we explain where she found Mary Jan or do we not even say he just he found her it was another adventure they could reference it lik
e they could talk about he's like my crazy adventure with Madam Webb that took me across time and space to find or even the Multiverse to find you like we could say that uh but like that's established and we have one we have one episode that'll be a fun adaptation that we just put a pin on the wall That's episode one episode two uh obviously also we established uh anunt may is around but tired and old of course she got watch her nephew get married and stuff yeah but yeah more than before uh but
she's tired and old um second episode we could do a photo album they're going through the photo album with Ant-Man we're seeing snapshots of all the stuff you missed in the intervening year hell yes like like uh Harry marrying Liz and stuff ah there you go and you know we make references to famous comic covers because they did that in the X-Men show to like Scott and Jean's wedding picture like hey that's a cover totally in fact we could uh and and I don't know if this is a fair use of that char
acter but I was going to say like Liz wasn't really established she's there but she's not really important she was like mostly invented towards the end of the show as like a friend for Mary chane that works with the diner but if you want to make it like really incestuous you g be like oh Harry married Deb Whitman because she was a long-standing character although she also had a budding romance with Flash Thompson in the show right so I don't know why they I don't have much to do with flash but w
e'll deal with flash in a second there's there was also no Betty Brandt in that show too wasn't there that was my other P we got we got to get Betty in there at some point just to complete the set yeah the thing about Betty was Betty was the main squeeze for Spider-Man in the 1981 Spider-Man cartoon so I can imagine them being like oh we don't want to tread on that uh or retread it I assume but uh so we got the first episode that's pinned up second episode Craven the hunter returns and he wants
revenge on Spider-Man and so he attacks Spider-Man and we Craven the hunter it we do a we do a 22 minute adaptation of Craven the hunter holy [ __ ] right with bearing him and him digging himself up and all the other stuff yes and it hits harder because Spider-Man isn't he's happy now Craven takes it away from him and gives him an edge right so cra we do we do all Craven the including all of the Craven the hunter isms that we can't necessarily talk about on YouTube and Tik Tok and other places b
ecause people like that work self deltion exactly so we get that that's craving the Hunter and that blows people's minds too because they're like whoa this is darker than I remember yeah yes exactly so we got that and then and I and and I was actually pitching this to Tiffany and she was like you need to you need a palet cleanser but I was like No And so I I I'll I'll take either way we can do the power cleanser episode or we go full Trinity with this one but the the the the third episode becaus
e obviously uh Craven the hunter or Craven's last hunt uhal story exactly well like Craven gets it in his head that he wants to destroy and become Spider-Man he tranks Spider-Man buries him alive becomes Spider-Man fights people does he wear verman plot is out we we throw Vermin away We're not gonna do the Vermin plot No One's Gonna Miss Vermin no one even remembers Vermin when they talk about the story and yet every time a writer and artist go back to that they always put Vermin in there it's a
weird thing they do plus there's like a whole Vermin thing like there's Vermin like it's a virus it's like anyway so you throw away the Vermin thing so you have more room to to to to fit the whole damn thing so you got that uh he becomes Spider-Man he scares Mary Jane uh Peter frees himself he fights Craven he defeats Craven Craven Craven the hunters himself so you got that uh and and Peter's re reunited with Mary Jane ah good times next episode Dr Mariah Crawford becomes Calypso oo okay yeah t
hat's right cuz they had the character in the show but she never became Calypso Calypso well exactly Craven just referred to her as Calypso but she also is Dr Mariah Crawford so you get to bring back Dr Mariah Crawford who is a established seminal character in this in this in this universe but you give her something to do and that something is become a super villain naturally Calypso learns magic and you know in her travels through the jungle with Craven and so you throw that away like you you s
ee you throw that out there and you're like all right she wants to get revenge on Spider-Man so She Bangs the drums and brings back oh the lizard and you do Todd McFarland's torment oh my God that's like that's a 20 minute episode right there is just Spider-Man being senselessly and savagely beaten by the lizard begging to know why only to then have there's there's the best moment in that entire book is the reveal of Craven with the Craven with the Craven's last hunt hole in his head amazing and
it's just such an but like with the lizard like yeah like that is just like it's so fresh and it's so raw and it's so real and Spider-Man's mind because as far as I'm concerned like Craven's last Hunt is a Trilogy that is unofficially squiz by Todd McFarland and it's Craven last hunt soul of the Hunter and then torment but and people people love the lizard too because he was in the first episode so getting him to come back is a big huge deal in fact hey let me Pitch you a title for that one tor
ment of the lizard a night of the lizard of the lizard love it yeah no because like lizard is a seminal character that like throughout the entire lifespan of Spider-Man 94 got a lot of play lizard's been in every episode he is always there in summer capacity I believe he gave Mary Jane away in the fake hydroman clone wedding episode anyway yeah and he was Spider-Man's pick for his battle world team too he sure was uh so you get lizard back but you don't have to worry about like because Joseph ca
mpanella's voice for Dr Kirk honors is Iconic and amazing and it's and you you can't use it but but like that's okay we got growls and stuff he never actually says anything in torment so cypo gets is getting revenge on CRA getting revenge on Spider-Man for the loss of Craven we get the night of the lizard return and then of course like it just ends the whole damn building collapses on them the lizard just escapes and we never see him again uh because we're good and Calypso she K she she crav las
t hunts herself and so you're like okay great cyps was out but we had this insane episode that's also a straight up adapation of this Todd McFarland story so you got that right so boom and that was also stressful because during cra's last hunt Mary Jan is upset but so is Aunt May Aunt May is more stressed more sad more upset BL so then we got that trilogy we pitched your your idea of like the parents come back because now now Spider-Man's been through the ringer but he still has stability like h
e has he has a wife he has an apartment he has a job he takes pictures of the bugle and then his parents come back oh what and most non-comic readers they don't know that story they don't know that happened they think like oh well the parents have never been important and also the Spider-Man show did touch on the parents a little bit by saying they were secret ages so that's already been pre-established in the show absolutely true no it's absolutely right uh so where we're going with this is hot
and exciting let me address a couple of super chats because this show is sponsored by viewers like you if you're watching the show live you can sponsor Today's Show by using Super Chat ask a question or Com or read here on the show like em& andm who says I think it should avoid most modern Spider-Man related lore so it can't lean on the spiderverse too much nor the web of life and Destiny no OMD although I would definitely like to see its take on Miles I mean honestly miles is such a major play
er in the Ultimate Spider-Man show like I feel like miles is good but I feel like there's no way in hell these guys can avoid putting miles in this show no of course because he's just too big they we had Prowler in this didn't we we had Prowler Prowler was Hobie Brown was in this show as Prowler but it was Hobie we could easily switch that around to be like well there's two Prowlers now who's this a who's this Aaron guy or Hobie retires and he beets his armor to Aaron which which is lit which is
literally what they've done in the comics right now really yes yes Aaron is running around in hobie's old costume it was a big thing in the Miles book where they thought they were fighting one but he was fighting the other it's like well how the hell did that happen and aon's like oh yeah me and Hobie had like a whole Adventure off panel you didn't see and he said no it's cool you can wear my armor I want to be Hornet now okay I love it uh R rayar being born in 2000 I watched reruns of the 90s
shows and Spidey shows always felt meh to me personally but cdb is fire I agree had to be there man it's one of those things like you had to be there at the time but you know the other problem is is that like that show and I will just as a quick aside that show has very clearly been a shorthand or E Cliffs notes for Hollywood since its Inception every time anyone is adapting that show like anytime anyone's adapting Spider-Man in in cinema or in TV they gooh what do I have to and they go oh just
watch the first season of the cartoon show Y and they're like oh okay because a lot of like the carryover is from that a lot of like cross-pollination came from that a lot of the same shots and camera movement and if how do I film Spider-Man spidering right his how does it how do his web sound but also to the point of like the black costume everyone knows the black costume augments your strength and that it was always going to be Venom even though it never did and never was yeah Hulk Zilla says
uh love the 90s Spider-Man show it started off for me uh my pitch is JMS adaptation after MJ's experiences she would need to leave New York City for a bit leading to the first few arcs of J misses run with Mor Lon and later MJ's return a [ __ ] decision is actually I would I would also do morun in this show we got to come up with new [ __ ] too in fact I had a pitch here's a new thing you could do right out of the way first five minutes of the show oh he's stopping a bank robbery who's he fighti
ng Sandman because Sandman was never in the original now Flint Marco is just here now and we're gonna deal with it dude inexplicably it's weird that they never did Sandman and yet also CER movie oh yeah also equally weird by the way uh how much they loved hydroman in the show because yeah I know he got so much play right so much play and it was weird because they were ever had in the books oh and and we need him to be a domestic abuser and he used to be like intense and scary let's get beloved c
omedic voice actor Rob Paulson to play him right to freaking yako Warner it's so weird so uh that's bizarre um Ray far also says all the compromises the show made always felt uh off to me like hobby being before Gabby lame laser guns uh morbius having hand which is worse yeah no it's much more terrifying for a vampire to show up with his fangs and go and now my hands will grow like suckers on them and they'll and they will filter the plasma out of your blood and I'll absorb that are you what tha
t is some that is some like Eli Roth crap right there it really is see vampires are too sinister for television so we need to work our way around that yeah I love that the I love that the 90s cartoon was dealing with [ __ ] that like the old comic sensors you know are having to deal with never mind the fact that there is a beloved chocolate themed cereal that has a vampire on the cover and uh oh yeah that's right children's puppet programming has a count beloved count that is also a vampire hey
you know they have a show uh you know the count just doing somebody you know just killing him and feasting on of for sustenance they have a show that on Sesame Street are you asking me if they've ever done a Sesame Street in which the count kills someone and then drinks their blood for sustenance no they never have done that uh R do I love a Spider-Man 98 but the real question is who do you think you get to replace Ed Asner as JJ they could do JK Simmons but that may be too on the nose dude I sa
id the same thing when JK Simmons showed up in the MCU I was genuinely disappointed because I was like man who could they use there's so many amazing character actors out there and then they were like oh the guy that was perfect last time I mean I guess that's cool I'm I'm still P pitching Lewis Black all these years later I I I'm I don't know how long he's got uh BB Metal Head 04 Spider-Man Tas with an actual budget sign me up see that's what I'm thinking right no sensors and a bget uh happyone
Disney Plus seriously happy Friday Joel and S love your content thank you very much Patrick Ray far also com Po and Joel woo to you too my friend Lenny laser discs Xmen 97 hit me at the right time and I'm obsessed quick question what do you think of some people complaining about the lack of long season arcs I everyone enjoy a three act structure for each episode dude honestly like we've gotten so many long standing I want to hear your opinion on this Joel but we had so many like dragging arcs I
mean I'm just I am still like Shell Shocked from the net model of Marvel where we got like whole ass seasons of this stuff where I'm like can we just do like a dunin one for like and then like sure thing but it's starring Karen and there won't be any any Daredevil in it I'm like okay like yeah no I'm actually thrilled like having watched the the The Inferno episode recently I was like this is amazing like yeah are you missing stuff yeah is it a tragedy that you don't get to do a onetoone adapta
tion no there an eing comic book you that's great again you I think a lot of it just has to do with the nature of the Beast and streaming television now people's attention spans are shorter we only have eight episodes now you kind of got to make the most out of what you have thankfully X-Men again as I said has a ton of meat on the bone so you can make a pretty killer 22 minutes out of this big long storyline and everything and also too and I think a lot of that is even changing too like again I
I don't think we've ever talked about it I loved eeko because Ekko was short sweet to the point and just focused on Great Performances I'm like yeah more of this please if Ekko had come out like after the debacle of like Iron Fist or the collapse of the Netflix show I think it would have been more receptive because like ah you learned all the mistake you you fixed all the mistakes from the previous guard and by being short no extraneous B plots which was so welcome it's part of the reason why I
was like yeah no like is Ekko a perfect show no is it the show I've always wanted no did I did I basically pledge I would never watch the show when they announced it sure do I think the Marvel Spotlight idea is like kind of gross and weird because they were deliberately trying to keep them keep the whole damn thing at arms length absolutely but it was a a way better living and watching experience than most Marvel things that I've watched in the last five years because it was short it was to the
point and it tried stuff yeah and it referenced stuff I wanted to watch big big agree on that one and hey uh speaking of Fisk and his children how we going to put the rose in here s we got to work Rose in here somewhere Rose Rose has no great stories Rose is in stories that are seminal to Spider-Man's history for the most part I remember Rose really factoring into the Hobgoblin AR right that that was my pitch if we get Mark Hamill back as Hob Goblin we do a gang war with him in the Rose for an
episode Rose was in the cartoon show too but like not to the extent that you could actually say he was a character uh Scarlet hottie I've always liked that Spidey stories ideally Force writers to interpret out of the mundane ins and outs of the Marvel Universe and so with a show I'd be interested in seeing how it does things that's fair yeah I'd love to see it I mean like I just want to see them you know the way that the X-Men 97 show for me I said this to Jordan Bloom and Pat Oswald on our late
st episode which you should definitely check out Folks by the way um but we were talking about how X-Men 97 feels the way Marvel is supposed to feel like it it it doesn't feel like I'm waiting for anything it feels like you're finally delivering like it is a straight up lived in universe that oh yeah thr in the deep end Spider-Man is right around the corner we just saw the bugle paper like we know that there is a larger world out there but that is it is equally large to the characters we're focu
sing on and that is why we're watching it's just and they are in it they're not like reminding you you know there's no like refresher and if there is a refresher it's done pretty organically yeah so you're just like you're just you're just along for the ride and it it's like it's it's kind of like when I finally got into Star Trek and I was watching the original series movies where like obviously for many of us the first Star Trek movie is four because the most approachable but like that's the f
ourth Star Trek movie and you had seasons of the original show and a cartoon version of the show and three other movies one of which was the greatest Star Trek movie ever made and if you skipped that you missed a lot of stuff regarding Spock and Kirk and their friendship which was already established long ago with their show but in the meantime you're watching the show or this movie and you are along for the ride because the story itself is what's important to the characters the characters are n
ot trying to reestablish themselves there's no refresh there's no reminders it's just here's the crew here's their Adventure you're Off to the Races and pretty much yeah and and because these characters have this history and this camaraderie I want to know it because I find their Charisma and their camaraderie so infectious and fun I want to be there I want to understand so I have to go back and slog through the first Star Trek movie I have to like Marvel at how amazing the second Star Trek movi
e is I have to slog through the third one which arguably is the worst one and then you get to four and you're like ah now I know These Guys these these are my friends they feel like friends even though it's the first time you conet them that's the same thing with X-Men 97 it's how the Marvel Universe should feel totally another great thing about X-Men 97 and I don't see a lot of people talking about this it really is a team show and it does an excellent job sharing the spotlight Wolverine didn't
instantly just take over everything in fact if anything Wolverine's back watching the house for a good chunk of these they are deliberately shunting Wolverine in the back background because the you had your time old man that's Wolverine he's not even the main character of the original X-Men show which is also that's the thing is like Wolverine is the main character of the X-Men Cinematic Universe Y no question no doubt uh which is which is why future X-Men movies don't work when he's not there
because the audience doesn't love Cyclops and then they clumsily try and shorn him in in clear re-shoot and it's like this is just no well and it's not like but he's the main character of this universe why would I want to see this movie that doesn't star him only for him to be in here for 30 seconds that's not the same thing at all so it's like okay that is a mistake but when you're watching the original X-Men show that is an adaptation of like the Claremont Lee era and so as a result you're lik
e Wolverine is not the main character he's he's got his own book called Wolverine and while he is prevalent he doesn't really do anything of consequence until he gets his adamans ripped out so it's like you're good like and he'll get Focus episodes he'll get to go back to Japan and fight Silver Samurai and he'll we we we'll do uh ex lives and videotape where you know we'll get to see Weapon X for a little bit but those are Focus episodes it's not all about him right or like when we bring back Co
lossus and Jubilee goes to Russia with him and then they're goingon to fight Omega Red and Wolverine's like Omega Red and you're like oh man I didn't know they had history and it's like that's what you're supposed to feel like but even the X-Men animated series that knew that Wolverine was their bread and butter still allowed for their robust cast to have moments of greatness that allowed for people to become fans of like Cyclops and storm and Rogue I mean like which is why that show is still so
me of people's favorite versions of those characters because they were allowed to live and breathe people like Rogue because of that show that is why Rogue has lasted as long as she has I like Rogue as a comic book character but for the longest time I had been anytime I was reading X-Men waiting for them to just do that yeah and because she was only that for a brief window of time right and yet that's the one that lives forever the one where she was super strong and could fly cuz she absorbed Ca
ptain Marvel's Powers I would actually argue I've said this before that I I I've said contrary things before where I'm like I think She-Hulk maybe the Wonder Woman of the Marvel Universe Etc maybe storm but maybe it's Rogue and the reason why I say it's Rogue is ironic because of course Marvel made Captain Marvel the Wonder Woman of their universe and so it's funny if the Wonder Woman of the Marvel universe is the one who stole Wonder Woman's powers but uh the reason why I think Rog is the Wonde
r Woman of the Marvel universe is because she is distinctly Marvel her car her powers are a curse and awesome her origin is not ideal it ISD impenetrable because she's kind of a villain and Mystique and Destiny are kind of her moms and it's a whole big thing I mean like you know the drama is also distinctly Marvel but also just the fact that it's not cut and dry it's not black and white like she is she is constantly proving as a hero and whereas Wonder Woman doesn't have to do that and it's like
that that's okay if Rogue is the Wonder Woman of Marvel because there is no one at Marvel besides Captain America and even he has a little bit of a spotty history at certain times because he's like made enemies of his friends you know like one would one could argue that he was wrong in Civil War I'm not saying he was but I am saying like there may have been I mean everyone was an [ __ ] in that everyone was an idiot show that in that in that crossover and even then Captain America where we have
to retcon huge Decades of his history uh that was another guy that was Kami Smasher C that wasn't Steve that was a totally different that was William Burnside we don't talk about him exactly but I digress uh so um T you wants to know what about spider girl in the show I'm not putting her in there it's too late uh rayar I know s is critical of support characters taking Focus but I feel like Spidey needs some love Robbie JJ Betty needs some uh needs a salmon twitch style series no they do not nee
d a show I will say this Spider-Man subord and cast are some of the only characters that you would actually read about right but oh and and and by the way if you're pitching like a I mean a Daily Bugle comic book should exist where it's like JJ Takes Over The Daily Bugle again and so you could have Robbie JJ Betty and everybody and then occasionally Peter shows up and pict again yes like that'd be fine like I I would read a series about them but I don't want to dedicate time in this show in this
in this cartoon this fictitious cartoon show pitch to be like oh what's Betty up to in this show it's like we got 22 minutes we got to do all the hits I mean they did have some pretty good Supporting Cast Centric episodes again the reason I have such an affinity for the tombstone Randy Robbie Feud is because of this show because they gave that series time to breathe like no these two had like a whole history in Harlem unto themselves that's true that's true that's true good point hell Smite I I
I only give a [ __ ] about Smite because I grew up watching this show I'm like guy he made spider Slayers and he had a flying wheelchair that was cool yeah I hate SMI and uh only he the mo the most play he's ever had is in the show he's been dead for so long he got killed off in Superior Spider-Man very early on and no one has brought him back as Spider Slayer or a Smite we're good we're good uh you know my pitch is he he has a kid you don't know about because he's a Junior and his dad was an e
vil scientist he I'd like if there was a daughter there's like you know uh Alexa Smite turns out he had a secret daughter you didn't know about and now she's the Spider Slayer and now she's the new Dr smite works for me yeah uh Hobbs just got to be careful with story choices are made considering the 90 series is the Bible for any Sony projects like we said exactly Hayden Hamilton uh gotta get Joe Perry to make the theme again right he' actually maybe just having him just do it again same thing j
ust do it again uh cam any of the DEA stuff would be great last hunt Harry's death do it all hell you could even have him write his own adapations it's true he's animation before yeah no I would hire a thought about that that's right you absolutely could and he still got it he still got it no Harry's death should also be worked into the show I think that'd be fantastic Goblin I had a good pitch too because again in this uh you know Fifth Season that they never got to make they were definitely go
ing to bring Green Goblin back from limbo I say tie that in with the Green Goblin ET story those weird little three robots who kidnap Harry and there's a big AI computer of Norman that way you can kind of threaten bringing him back without really bringing him back but say oh Osborne had contingencies and play everyone in case he ever went missing for x amount of time by the way you could also uh in the first episode we could the first episode could be the recap episode that also is like a we we
re all the things we didn't get a chance to do like we never killed Norman so we he go limbo though or am I mistake then he fell in limbo too so it's like no he runs into Norman on the adventure to save Mary Jane and Norman dies in that story so he never comes back and so Harry Harry is Harry because he's like my dad's dead and it's like great you know what I mean but we don't even have to show him dying or we we only show like a quick battle and it's alluding to his original death yeah back day
and everything so you got that EXA with the glider and everything exactly so he's dead um but it also allows for Harry to be angry and of course become the ring Goblin again that's a picture in the photo album the funeral of Norman Osborne yeah and like one shot of Harry just look really mad yeah scaring at Peter uh yeah uh J Sage love the show guys growing up with the show made me only ever want a Peter Felicia relationship even if it backs uh even if it backs off on it uh having an awesome ha
ve an awesome day uh you too man um yeah the Jennifer hail is so amazing and Felicia is a character that like I mean in both spectacular and in this show Felicia is awesome and you want to see them kind of get together it's you have to do something with her she'd have to have an episode where we can see what she's been up to honestly hook her up with with with flash they were together in the 90s you could just have that be your your story steal steal a future idea uh Kingpin has disappeared so w
e don't have to worry about recasting him now Felicia is the queen pin of crime sure I mean as long as Jennifer H's in it and she's playing uh Black Cat again I'm down uh I also am like you know when they were like oh Zena's back for Spider-Man 4 I'm like no I like zindaa and I would expect her to come back someday but like couldn't we have a whole movie where he's with black hat just just once just just a little bit player 69 error says uh sorry I made the name up when I was 13 Craven's last hu
nt adaptation would be so rad do you think they'd ever keep the scene where he drinks the spider venom much love guys keep it up yeah I mean like we're on streaming now so the same rules don't apply we can get away exactly yeah why not yeah sure no he strips down he jumps into the spider room drinks the Venom yeah definitely oh I mean I mean Mr Sinister threw a baby in a vat of green goo and I was shocked they got away with that because they're put toddler in Peril yeah speed ESU just keep simpe
r out big ego hitter Miss Rider I'm I'm in a similar boat man uh cam says have a team up episode that add adapts the new Fantastic 4 you don't need it I mean like you could you could do a Fantastic 4 crossover but like honestly if this works you just do fantastic 499 like you just bring back F Spider-Man did team up a lot too in that show he teamed up with the X-men with Blade with the Punisher with Daredevil yeah so uh taking a quick break from the super chats we should talk about our the the t
he three-parter where it's like okay so uh Pete's parents come back M and Venom immediately kidnaps them of course and then Spider-Man and Venom fight hanas area comes back as Venom obviously and so Spider-Man and Venom fight and then they come to a truce where you know Spider-Man saves uh Venom's ex-wife Annie in this case it would probably be the scientist they invented that falls in love with him it's also a therapist yeah from Raven coft that wasn't Kafka but it was someone else though wasn'
t it I think it was Kafka I think it was yeah you're right it was kofka so yeah no Spider-Man saves Ashley kofka uh from a falling carnival ride like in the comic book he teaches Venom the value of uh Spider-Man and then they have an uneasy truce where he's just like if you don't come after us we don't come after you you set up lethal protector yep I'm G to they're never gonna do they never do that but like we get it like you you know you sign posters if you want to follow my Adventures I'm GNA
be over here being a legal protector literally you you end you you do a post credits at the end of the episode where he's in San Francisco and he's like we can do some good here and then like a digger attacks him and he's like ah and then you just cut you're like moving on godamn so Spider-Man uh so you know first episode return the parents uh and Venom kidnaps them uh and very economical storytelling here we're setting up our next bit and we're getting a Venom episode which everyone would cream
their jeans over we got a Venom episode with the whole episode is just Venom and Spider-Man fighting and it's a it's a knockdown drag out epic fight because Spider-Man's like I just got my parents back and now Venom's going to kill them this is this is for all the money why does everyone keep trying to take away my happy ending from me boom so you got that uh then the next episode is uh life life death or whatever where life theft where um you know we we we we established in the first episode y
ou know when they come back at the post credits or whatever H we did that already second episode we established that like you know the parents are not who they seem there's there's other forces at work U vulture is sent in uh you know and we do we adapt that story where they're artificial life forms he fights them he his mom betrays the dad uh vulture shows up and and sucks at their life for they die oh no life theft Thank You Gavin so like you got that right they're dead oh no he's sad but now
he's pissed and so he then uh gets a like a breadcrumb you know maybe he beats it out of vulture or something but like he finds out I gotta get I got to get chameleon now also chameleon's pissed because of Craven you know what happened in episode 2 and and Calypso too as well you know hey that was my sister-in-law exactly so uh Spider-Man then hunts chameleon in the next one this could be a great opportunity for us to show a lot of cameos a lot of like behind the scenes because like you know you
get that great Moment In The Killing Joke where Batman is like looking for the Joker and he's talking to like you know sex workers and he's showing he's talking he's shaking down the penguin you know you get like a lot of Great Moments where like maybe you get a shot of Spider-Man at the backer building where he's like have you seen the chameleon yeah but he's like he's be he's beating down Blacky gaxton and the rose there you go that's how we work theose right like just it's all the villain yo
u don't get a chance to use he shakes down to get the chameleon and event man's here now how about that exactly and uh and then at the end you know he he punched up the computer screen and in this case because Harry isn't dead and he didn't do the thing it's Norman Norman set it all up and so he's already killed Norman off screen in the pre like before the show started so uh he doesn't get his revenge so it's like ah so pissed no Norman uh took one more thing from me you know I just got Mary Jan
e back and he gave me my parents and then boom done right so like that's that's your that's your that's your life theft uh story and uh at the end of the episode ant May has a heart attack oh no or a stroke I think it's a stroke in the comic because obviously what we're what we're teeing up is the death of ant May of course because we have to do that because Spider-Man he's growing up now you know his life is changing he's becoming the adult that he's never allowed to be in anything else exactly
so but he's already married and we already have this but like we have that so we're boom boom boom boom boom and we just every but and unlike X-Men 97 it's more like every three epodes like a full damn Arc that also has its own damn Arc within it uh that gives you more than you bargain for I like it I like it a lot that's uh that's six or that's that's sixis six episod six really Sol two more right then we got two more and uh I think the last one or the second and last one has to be Ant May die
s I mean like since we're since we're we're we're we're going at a break neck speed you know ant May has the stroke right is is would this be the Cameo episode where he goes around to everyone and asks for help for how to fix like an adaptation of the of one more day where he's asking everybody for help to save Aunt May no like one more day way earlier yes it's just one more day but without any Mesto It's just sad yeah it's just a sad Downer for Spider-Man there that that would be great I feel p
eople would be pissed off at that say why is the Spider-Man show such a d i feel like you need to end it on some hope you need to like does he does it end with him meeting the beyonder and him having like a conversation with god about his aunt and everything where they like meet on that park bench I I think that the end of it is Mary Jane's pregnant ah there you go we lose one life but we gain another exactly sunrise sunset that's your that's your that's your big reveal and then like the the las
t episode is just a fun like cool fight you just pick a character that Spider-Man fought in the 90s that was like it could be a Doc O fight he's uh unfortunately dud who played Doc O passed away as well he's amazing um trying to remember his name I think it's efim zimis JR but I'm not sure if that's true oh [ __ ] the guy who played Alfred holy [ __ ] yes the guy who played Alfred also played dook and he did an awesome job uh so if it if that's the same guy then yes it is uh but um yeah he could
fight dook uh and then he has shock stunner show up and kill him no I'm kidding uh Kane none of those things are showing up no no clones none of that stuff though I I would actually like to see Lady o in this show actually that would be kind of fun oh my God yeah that's that's for season two that's for Spider-Man 99 but uh uh yeah so um jumping back into the Super chats really quick uh BB Metalhead 04 Spider-Man the Animated Series was also known for its teamup episodes uh who would you want to
see a new team up like moonight or Hulk or would you want X-Men since 97 cast is already in there I think X-Men deserves another one just because that would be the most obvious but you know what I would do instead of like waste because like as you can see from like what we've tossed out here diametrically different stuff I mean like Joel's idea of bringing in life theft and uh and the death of the parents and stuff like that was just just a stroke of Genius but putting in like torment and and C
raven's last hunt and like Hodge pod again you're getting a lot of like you need a lot of room you got a lot of heavy [ __ ] you need a lot of room I would just I would just do Spider-Man Xmen I would I would do a special that's that would be yeah Spider-Man X you call it an annual X-men Spider-Man Annual yeah yeah yeah like like almost like a Christmas special but no no holiday theming just Spiderman and the X-Men here's the funny thing and maybe we confuse these ideas apparently simper said if
he got his way in the next season he want to do a Spider-Man teamup episode with Iceman and Firestar he wants to do a Spider-Man and his amazing friends pasti and he wanted to get those original voice actors back oh my God I I I fine for for a pallet cleanser and something that's already an X-Men crossover I think you could do a lot worse than that I agree honestly like definitely you without question whether you do it or not you definitely in the Montage of him trying to look for help either w
hen he's like shaking people to find chameleon or when he's trying to get help to save ant may there's one shot of him talking to fire star and Iceman naturally yeah because we were amazing friends you didn't see that that happened in the year you miss we're amazing ex now uh uh winom Jarl three uh 4342 if it happens I hope they adapt nothing can stop the Juggernaut I also hope they can use that hanging miles waren thread with Smite as a way of creating Kane Parker I hope GMD Matas gets involved
agreed uh love the Juggernaut pitch that's that's a good Feelgood stand alone there nothing yes that could be the last episode that's the last one nothing can stop the Juggernaut you get your X-Men crossover and it just is a Feelgood after all the tragedy and hard stuff we've done totally he has the he has the success of like he saves this woman but like you know Juggernaut gets away and he feels like a loser and a failure and then Mary Jane's like well I have some news for you ah there you go
and that's your final shot to go out on it's like oh if it's a girl you know I I hope we can name her May yeah boom hey look T got what he wanted a stupid sandwich I help the Scarlet SP has a more supporting role in the Revival of the show since his New York was destroyed uh maybe he can defend New York City while Peter searches for Mary Jane yeah I I think that if you're going to do a Revival people are gonna want to see like true adaptations of Spider-Man comics slash Spider-Man being Spider-M
an doing spider I I mean look I mean I think you could do Miles Warren and Kane and all that next season that feels like a season two pitch is what that feels like three episodes we'll revisit the clones for like a minute that's fair actually you could just go like oh yeah no Scarlet scarl spider has been kicking around doing his thing oh you know what you do you make it a midlife crisis thing Spider-Man is married he has a kid on the way he feels like he's not going to be able to keep up this w
ho's this hip young guy with a sleeveless hoodie who's flying around it's the Scarlet Spider I'm like you but younger and hipper yes yeah absolutely I mean honestly you could also you could work in the whole damn story is like he's feeling inadequate Scarlet Spider shows up and he's like eating his lunch but also the reason why he's here is because uh so this is embarrassing but actually I just wanted your attention because I've been stalked for the better part of a couple years by this other gu
y named Kane trying to kill me and I hoped maybe you might be able to step in and help me yeah again we I've got Jackal problems yes so you have uh you know or you just save jackal's dead or you know whatever but like you have uh Spider-Man and Spider-Man versus scarl you have you have the introduction Scarlet Spider Spider-Man fights Scarlet Spider Spider-Man and Scarlet Spider team up to fight Kane there you go big reveal that Kane is uh you know also a clone and then he degenerates at the end
you know what I mean like the whole thing's 22 minutes you just uh you know do the whole damn thing and Kane dies yeah I'm I'm the last Legacy of Miles Warren right or or Kane dies uh saving somebody so even Kane gets Redemption a there you go I like and it's just like a little thing that goes like hey it turns out no matter what no matter what you dress us up as we're still a hero fart uh and and then you can send uh Ben away being like oh wow you know if uh the Jackal had more clone Vats like
this I better go around and make sure I destroy all of them to make sure we don't have any spider side troubles exactly hell I mean you know that could be another fake back door pilot or just a little thing where it's like maybe he'll move you know oh he says where will you go Ben and he goes oh you know I could go to San Francisco uh uh Houston you name it yeah Vegas seems nice this time of year yeah Vegas Houston you name it you know just like the little little little TI little jokes yes exac
tly uh Nick Smith uh have or SMI have you have a darker Carnage Cassidy come back from his dimensional panishment or introduce a '90s version of the spirit yeah I guess we I guess we'd have to deal with Carnage at some point too in season two cuz that's another hanging thread of like oh he was a villain so dangerous we had to put him away now we're on streaming and we can do some more stuff with him hey uh C can we maybe steal some null stuff like he comes back with a spiral now and we never exp
lain what the spiral is about oh yeah no I mean like honestly what you do is null freeze Carnage from banishment and Carnage goes on a rampage not knowing like Carnage thinking he's doing it on his own and you do maximum Carnage that's and Y and then the implication at the end is that like actually it was you were doing work in my name I am God that's that's the Tweet yep he gets out he does Maximum Carnage so Spider-Man has to recruit his friends so season two you get more cameos with more yeah
that that could be three or four episodes easy that's your season and then at the end when Carnage is defeated then he hears the voice of null yes exactly uh Hey with the face I don't know if you guys talked about this but a episode about Aaron stealing the parler suit and Pete and Hobie trying to stop him we kind of did talk about that actually where it's like look we got to get Aaron in there somehow yes stupid sandwich you have to bring Venom back from the dark dimension first sure he alread
y did he came back whatever like we just that's in the missing year he came back yeah no Spider-Man and Venom teamed up during a multiversal adventure while he was trying to get marry Jane and they came back the end I mean it was great you just didn't see it it happened over there xks wrestling uh wait wasn't chameleon Red skull's Son in the show no that was electro Electro was that's right are we going to finally introduce Max Dylan are we going to fix that are we going to like do really nerdy
[ __ ] there to try and put stuff back I wouldn't bother I I mean like there there's no there's no epic Electro story we need to tell that F like we don't need to fix Electro there they're really is it's funny Electro was featured very heavily and amazing this week and I'm like man it's been forever since that happened yeah well when he wasn't also a girl and he's on like a team it's it's so funny when he came back I'm like oh is this his big return issue did they finally resurrect him no they r
esurrected him theyed him before yeah they resurrected him during Kindred it's just that was during Sinister War when a million other things were happening and no one gave a [ __ ] that Max Dylan came back to life that's right yeah no no he came back to life and I was like oh okay I guess they're putting that Genie back in the bottle and and they and they brought him back literally to be a seat filler in Sinister War it's like well we need more guys to fill out the team so you got to come back t
o life so you brought him back to life I would think maybe it might be easier just to get someone else nah nah you know Speed Demon might still be around n we need him to fil because we need six teams of six you see so he needed to come back to fill a fill a seat yeah Ray far we need Pete's parents or can we just can V him just take MJ I feel like MJ's already been like the reason why I was reticent to do is because a you get to bring in you get to do the the parents story and it adds another el
ement of like Peter like metaphorically burying his parents and growing up as an adult and it'll feel fresh and new to people who have never seen before Tik Tok will lose its mind cuz they didn't know that was a thing yeah exactly just like they didn't know Goblin Queen was a thing and techno organic virus was a thing yeah no it was great watching it with with Tiffany and seeing him go in the thing she's like is he gonna get the and I'm like yeah yep yep oh I I had the same reaction with someone
else where I'm like didn't you ever wonder why cable had a [ __ ] up robot arm exactly this is why yeah uh Michael Steven would love to see if they did a one more day where he choses chooses Mary Jane and let ant may go a kid can dream I mean at this point like what you do is one day is not a good story even if you take away all the [ __ ] so no the best story of ant May dying is jmd matteas is story so like you just do that that yeah oh and by the way like the death of ant May in that EP in th
e season finale is that is that scene or she's like she goes for a walk with him she tells him I already knew you were spider I always knew you were Spider-man you know what I mean and then take me home and then dies yeah he just rewrites it like he just adapts it uh Antonio exists love your stuff can you say hi to Antonio and Xavier hey Antonio and Xavier oh hi uh Captain [ __ ] if they uh bring back the other 90s shows do a teamup special and call out the contest of Champions and use it to lau
nch a new Avengers cartoon I mean I'll take either of those things that that's pretty fun actually I I I I've always loved contest of Champions as a concept yeah Nick SMI off topic question but I'm curious would uh what would your pitch for an original Spider-Man cartoon be from scratch hm from scratch you do what they were gonna do with Spider-Man Unlimited which is just a like the way they're doing the bat or beware the bat no um what the hell is this new show the cape Crusader Cape Crusader y
eah where you go okay the first 26 issues of spider of Amazing Spider-Man from Lee and ditco and it's just with like a style that is similar to ditco like it's kind of stylized a little bit like raw and weird and it's just that that's pretty good I I would again try and show people something they've never seen before I'm like okay mid 2000 Spider-Man he is a science teacher now and has to balance all of this together and we just go from there episode one is him dealing with [ __ ] a new villain
you've never seen before we just adapt that and keep going totally totally another pitch uh Spider-Man 20099 just Batman Beyond like just shocked shock you go here's the show Bible it's do Batman Beyond make it feel like young and fun did you see that that we almost got for a Batman Beyond animated movie never never forget what they took from us never forget I know I know it it it it kills me because it's such a good idea and it's such an obvious idea and it's frustrating that anyone would be li
ke time for it now as we've seen with X-Men 97 you know late 990s early 2000s Nostalgia is at the most profitable it's ever been a whole generation of people our age would have lost their minds for it and again the the brain trusted Warner Brothers was like we could do that or we could do nothing I genuinely think there's a the reason why they're not doing it is because I think they are cons I think they're always like one failed movie away from doing Batman Beyond starring Michael Keaton probab
ly uh the captain [ __ ] also says one thing about the 90s show is that is they would bring in comic writers like Marv Wolfman de Matas and Jerry Conway so it would be interesting to see in recent writers like zadarski Hickman and JMS I'd love that too actually mean at this point really uh just get Wolfman deas and cway they're still working is the F they're still alive and still working they're still working great I mean like I would love to see uh zadarski but you know what you do is you have
zadarski uh draw the series Bible because like zadarski style is so like nice and crisp and you know it itself to animation oh it would isn't it so funny that zadarski is being so celebrated now as a writer a bunch of people are slowly forgetting that he's also a very accomplished artist on top of that yeah you know sex criminals just got uh collected into a massive Omnibus and he only drew it yeah say only by the way I don't mean like that's not enough but like you know you'd think oh well zida
r is a triple threat now and it's like yeah but back then he was he was he was drawing it I know it's wild right uh canopy with Bowers would be cool to see a recent iteration of a ramita esque visual for Spidey in light of the weird current obsession with modernizing the suit and adapted media before Spider-Man 4 that is yes of course um I agree yeah no I'd love to see some like I mean the closest thing to that now is the MCU eyes because they were like little you know this is true but uh yeah u
h that's our pitch for Spider-Man uh 98 season one um I think that this is a slam dunk I think it sells itself I think that it all automatically gets us to season two uh Without Really any like question and like 97 I'm sure a massive multimedia Blitz would accompany it I'm sure they would re-release all the figures which they technically already did re-release a bunch of the figures before as part of that beautiful retro line yes yes they have which I bought more than a few of those CU they're f
reaking awesome and they look exactly like the ones I grew up with but the sculpting is better yeah yeah I mean I as I understand it I think there is a Blu-ray release of the Spider-Man uh 94 series but I don't know if it's a real Blu-ray or if it's like a they just called it that yeah right or if it's a uh it's a if it's a like a bootleg yeah there's yeah again did you actually upres any of this or is this just the way we remember it and also too it would be interesting to see how this would af
fect the comics because would they go out of their way to try and make The Amazing Spider-Man comics match the 9498 aesthetic I mean based entirely on what they did with X-Men how the new roll out is all the titles were really were relaunching have the the old 9s logos on them including storm so yeah uh I think 100% Spider-Man would suddenly go back to that like Jagged spider legs uh like you know titling I like if ever they were gonna think about getting Spider-Man remarried again it would be b
ecause of this cartoon shows rampant success wouldn't that be the wildest thing ever that that's what gets them back together the re success of the cartoon yeah which would also almost be a little bit of like a coming home for them because Spider-Man got married in the real comics in the first first place because Stanley got them married in the uh newspaper strip that's I mean something like something in a lot in a wider media influenced the cartoon show to do what they did history doesn't repea
t itself but it sure [ __ ] Rhymes but uh folks we want to thank you so much for watching we want to thank our super Chatters for sponsoring Today's Show without you guys we don't have an infrastructure to allow us to keep doing the show uh normally but uh we do appreciate it thanks to the chat for being cool having great ideas and for being complimentary and sweet with each other in the comments uh and of course uh check out youtube.com/ Joel for more cap Joel goodness and uh stick around here
on comop returns for more there is a full-on conversation between myself and comedian Paton Oswalt and Jordan Bloom chatting about comics and Star Wars and uh ge just geeking out overall check out that show and many more here on this channel we'll see you guys next time with another episode I'm s that's Joel byebye long
Comments
38:05 “ Vampires are too sinister”. Don’t you mean insidious? 😂
Silver Surfer was slated for second season but Marvel went kaput as a whole put that out
To be fair to this show, not even Batman: TAS could get away with vampires. It’s why they had to scrap the Nocturna episode, where they made her a vampire who turned Batman.
Man if X-Men 97 retold the Wolverine Japan story that would be amazing! Maybe an excuse to bring in the brown costume? !
Shocker ends the shakedown montage, he immediatly gives up Chameleon after some epic shouting.
I kinda hope Spidey turns up in X-Men 97, not for anything big, maybe in the last episode or something just to check in on them after a big event or something, that would be like early MCU levels of hype for me. Especially if Christopher Daniel Barnes voices him again (which I’m sure he would, he always seems to return to Spidey if given any kind of chance)
Man, I fucking LOVED that Surfer show. It made me a Marvel Cosmic fan for life. Those toys were also amazing for the time. Felt like equal parts Starlin & Kirby.
I know this makes me sound like a big dork but... I kinda like that Spider-man for the 90's show doesn't throw punches. Just hear me out ok 😅 Theres an issue of ultimate spider-man (i cant remember the issue number but i know it happens) When Bendis has Peter tell Mary Jane that he loves being a super hero but he wishes he could do the job with less hitting people. I love that, it shows Peter is compassionate. I kinda like to imagine that Peter from the 90's show is similar. He doesn't like hitting people and just sticks to stopping them with his webs. He does have super strength after all, it would be scary from his prospective hitting a normal person even if he does hold back...But yer its more fun if he hits people 🤣 Also love seeing Sal rock that yellow Wolverine '97 flannel shirt!
Instead of Spider Man 98 (it should just get a special showing Peter reuniting with MJ), I would love for Marvel to work on the shows of the time like Iron Man and Fantastic Four, maybe even the series of characters that were not adapt like Doctor Strange, Daredevil or Captain America.
Here's my absolute crack-infused idea: Show starts, and its the old show, like episode one again in the new style... Except by the end, someone comes to the door and we expect Mary Jane and the immortal line drop... Only to find a much older looking Peter who introduces himself as Ezekiel Sims, and says he's here to help Peter be ready for everything coming his way and to save MJ from her fate. "THE OTHER: PART I" OG Peter came back to reality in the past, and engineered things behind the scenes to set himself on his path as Spider-Man.
If they make a new Spider-Man show, it is best to do the same as X-Men 97, make the character's name and nostalgia do half of the marketing work, and then have the team behind it make a modern continuation of the show. Of course, this is the safe route, another option would be to have a different team make a new type of continuation, although this would be better for new shows or remakes.
This is one of those shows that, if they did bring it back, I wouldn't mind if they didn't try to emulate the older style of doing the show. I know reusing stock footage is meme material, but imagine if it was like the first part of season one where every episode is almost entirely original footage? That, and if the first fight scene has Spidey kicking someone, would blow people's minds.
Wait didn’t Mariah Crawford become a villain in season 4? She became a neogenic jungle lady that Kraven had to save or something. It’s been a long time since I watched season 4. To be fair I remember it being really weird and it could be expanded on.
It'd certainly be a refreshing change of pace to have a Spider-Man show where he's not a high-school student again. I think the last time we got that was the MTV show (but even then he was still in some form of education in that show). At the same time, though, it's kinda sad that I'm thinking more about what I don't want to see as opposed to what I do for a potential Spider-Man '98, if only because I have a feeling Marvel wouldn't be able to help themselves in some regards.
I understand the drive to do "Death of Aunt May" but it would also be kinda cool if she was kept in play for the first two seasons. Let's say the penultimate episode would be an upper after the Kraven and Chameleon plots beat the hell out of Peter, then the finale could have Peter get beat up to an insane degree (Nothing Can Stop The Juggernaut works perfectly here,) May walks into the room while MJ's not looking and finds the Spidey suit and the first episode of Season 2 is The Conversation... Then she dies in Season Two, but we did The Conversation! Also, I know it's stunt casting, but it'd be cool have Peter's parents be voiced by Josh Keaton and Vanessa Marshall (Peter and MJ from Spectacular.)
One you could seed very early on by having her presence be gradually built up as a supporting character until it comes to a head at the end of the season/next season: The Death of Jean DeWolff. Another Spider-Story that would really only need minimal tweaks to the Daredevil stuff and then you're essentially golden, especially with the story itself having been framed like a cop drama
Sal it's not that the show wasn't censored it's that the show was under the same level of moderation as cartoons were then and now. John just made the show his own way, he didn't feel he needed a ton of scenes of Spider-Man beating up bad guys, it's just a creative choice. He's said he felt the few times they did do that made it more impactful that way and even if ya don't feel that way that's how he wanted to make it. And he did sometimes make requests for something when he felt it was necessary to be more firm, like for that episode where he talked with a supervisor of the show and said he wanted to feature a real gun for a more grounded episode revolving around gun violence. They agreed and let him do that because he never tried to push things too far and always cooperated. And he made a strong enough case for it, and future cartoons would have a similar sentiment down the line like static shock where when something more recognizable like that shows up in the episode it's a lot more impactful as a threat compared to if it's just shown off in every episode. Now, could he have simply not held back for the rest of the show? And could he have included more stuff where Spider-Man is more on the attack? Well yes he could have, no one is debating that at this point. But it was his show and he felt he wanted to have more restraint because that seemed more important creatively than worrying about how many times Spider-Man punched or kicked a villain, he wanted to let the writing do more lifting in terms of what narratives from the episodes focused on not just rely on fight scenes to sell the show. And look if we ever get a revival of the 90s show, then simply put yes he should be involved and yes he should be the one consulted for creative decisions. Because in a lot of ways how he handled the show ensured higher ups had faith in it, and it's clear he cares about it a lot and still regards his time on it well. And ultimately the only reason it came to an end was because Fox's interest in Marvel cartoons just as a whole came to an end, partly due to issues with the old avengers show and partly due to them seeing money elsewhere in Pokemon. And also not having faith in any other future projects planned, like that one show that started as a new Spider-Man show, which was also gonna be a 2099 show, then just turned into Spider-Man unlimited and died on a cliff hanger ending. But unlike the 90s show, which also didn't resolve it's own cliff hanger ending with the final planned season, it didn't really do enough to leave an impact. The 90s cartoon at least aimed to give viewers a satisfying note to carry on from if they didn't get another season, something most of it's successors that ended up getting cut short one way or another didn't manage. It's a sad case where Spider-Man shows, good or bad, don't get to live up to their potential and that's honestly probably why the 90s show is remembered fondly because even if you can point out tons of things that are "weird" those oddities come from a place of creative restraint not forced restraint. It feels like a "complete" show, as much as one can be. And considering Ultimate Spider-Man is the only other cartoon that comes to mind that is close to that, yeah that's not a high bar to clear to be more fondly remembered even without nostalgia.
Here’s a pitch for an episode or two: a fun time-travel story which is an adaptation of Peter David’s crossover between Spider-Man 2099 and Spider-Man he did during the original 2099 run. The person to voice Miguel would be Rino Romano, who voiced Spidey in Spider-Man Unlimited and the two PS1 Neversoft Spider-Man games
Damn now I want this so bad, you guys remind me of me and my best buddy thinking about TV shows and movies trying to making them better so much fun
Ahhhhh Joel and Sal back in the saddle. Salute both u guys, this show has a helluva run. You guys have done some classic episodes and comic related speculation over the years. Been some real fun talks going back all these years. Salute!