Welcome to the SCAD
Savannah Film Festival, the largest university-run
film festival in the US. Thank you all for
joining us today. My name is Brittany Kaplan. I'm a senior editor from
"Entertainment Weekly." I'm here with Phyllida
Lloyd, who is Tony-nominated, and Clare Dunne. Thank you again so
much for being here and to all of our friends,
virtual friends watching. Thank you. And let's get this
conversation started. I have to say, I
loved this film. I can't tell you how much
I enjoyed watchin
g it. I thought it was spectacular
and also so powerful and so , positive which I think
is such an interesting and amazing thing you did. It was so empowering. And I want to say something that
maybe not everyone knows just from having just watched
it, but there-- you didn't just star in it, you wrote it. So what I want to ask is,
where did this idea come from? I was basically just doing
some auditions in New York five or six years ago. And I was enjoying my first
experience of pilot season, basi
cally, reading a
lot of scripts and-- and just, you know, treading
the streets every day, going to all those auditions. And in the middle of it all,
a dear friend of mine rang me. And she's a single mother of
three kids, living in Dublin. And she was in a position
where she had to leave her current accommodation. And there was nowhere to go. There was a housing
crisis beginning-- beginning to get
worse in Dublin. And Yeah, she had to go
through the process of actually declaring herself
homeless
on-- on a, you know, filling in a form. And the process was
just so painful. And I-- I just really felt
for her at that moment. And I was standing
there in New York. And I knew that I
wasn't really where I wanted to be in my
own life and career, and she certainly wasn't
where she wanted to be. And I was sitting
there fantasizing to myself about imagining she
could just bypass all the-- the kind of systems at
play, the-- the kind of waiting on a house on a-- on a council housing list or-- or appl
ying for
rent, accommodation, and imagine she could just
build a house for herself. And I googled "self
build Ireland" and then "self
build Ireland cheap" and then I found that a
guy called Dominic Stevens, this fantastic
architect, he built a house for himself
for only 25,000 euro back in, like, 2009. And then I knew that something
like that could be done. So it just sparked off
something in my imagination of just imagining this
woman who is leaving a very dire situation and
trying to find some
where to go with her
children and what she would do to make that happen. So it's sort of about her
deciding to help herself and therefore a different
and better kind of help arrives in her life and
therefore transforms her life. And you've worked with
Phyllida, right, correct, in theater? And how did this kind
of beautiful marriage come together, where you were
working on the film together? We were working
on theater together, and I ended up
showing the script to Phyllida kind of at
some point o
n the journey. And it was like we were in
conversation about it anyway, and-- and Phyllida wanted to
help me out as a kind of mentor and an amazing guiding eye. And, well, at first,
Phyllida-- sorry, I should let you speak, but you
were saying that originally you thought, oh, it should
be an Irish director, right, and an independent one. And then yeah, she
wanted to do it herself, which more than delighted me. I mean, we were--
we were working in an all-female company in-- actually, in New York
when-- I think when Clare maybe first
showed me the screenplay. And I was just, first of all,
like, completely blown away by, this is her first screenplay
and what an incredible sort of instinct for-- for the shape of a movie
that-- that she had, but also how this story that-- it's a subject that has
been tackled on film before, but somehow,
that she was tackling it in a very, very fresh, and
though it was very harrowing, it was also-- it had much light and dark
that I hadn't sort of felt this a
round the subject before. And so I just thought,
well, I'll give support, and maybe it should be
directed by an Irish director. And then one day, somebody
came along and said, wow. They'd read the
screenplay and said, you know, Clare's written a
role, because at that point, she wasn't thinking,
if the film was made, she was going to
necessarily play Sandra in her typically humble way. And someone said she's written
this incredible role for a really great movie actress. And I thought, yeah,
yeah,
her, herself. She's written it for her,
and she's going to play it. And that's how I just suddenly
went from kind of 0 to 60 and went, I'm going to do this. And I'm going to
make that happen. And yeah, it's been a really-- an incredible journey. So when-- you know,
a lot of people know, of course, you've been doing
these big blockbusters, these big-- big films. You know, you go to-- to something that's more quiet. What does that
take in your brain to kind of go from
something that's so big to s
omething that's
just so beautiful and quiet and meaningful? Not that they tell me it's not. You know, we all love
that in our own way. I just think, in a way,
this is more the world that I have lived in for
the last many, many years in the theater. It's a more down-to-earth-- we're very used to, in the
theater, working in an ensemble where everybody on the, not
just the actors, but the crew feel invested, totally
invested in the subject and that they have
a stake in it. And so in some
ways, I've
been sort of looking for quite a few
years to try to kind of marry the social missions that I'm
working on in the theater with work on screen. And this just completely
kind of replied to that. So oddly, I feel probably much
more at ease in this world. This low-budget world,
it kind of speaks to me and I feel comfortable in it. Yeah. You know, we talk about,
like, the social missions and everything of it. And in watching it,
something that I was most struck by is the difference,
and I think a lo
t of people in other countries,
certainly in America, will be very struck by the
difference with how things are handled in Ireland than the
US because there is actually a system for people
who don't have housing or who are searching for-- you know, who have left
abusive relationships. There isn't really a
system here or one that is working anyway effectively. Was that something
that-- obviously you needed to show some of
it for story purposes, but is that something that you
really wanted to show
more of and be more transparent of
to illustrate that to people watching all over the world? I guess that's to me. Right, go ahead. I would say-- I would say, at
the start, I just-- probably just wanted
to show the archetypal battered woman as-- as-- in a different way
and not such a victim, you know, that she's, like,
brave in her own way, actually, even to be there in the first
place in that situation, but then to choose
to leave as well. And then as I began-- began to write it
and research,
I realized, oh, this--
this is-- this is sort of a battle on all fronts. It's not just on the home front. And it takes a lot for
these women and men that are in these
situations to get completely free of the relationship or
whatever it's doing to them and then to get to a new
place in their lives. And there's a few places
that you have to go through, obviously, like the housing
association or the courts, the family courts and stuff. And to me, it was
just important to-- not to show a documentary
and not be like-- I'm not Ken Loach,
you know, I'm not just trying to do social realism. I'm also trying to show, I
wonder what it could be like or I wonder where it
could go from there. So it's a fiction very
much based in fact. And I just wanted to
show, actually, really, what these women do to
get through all that. And a lot of my research was
based on court transcripts and meeting family
psychologists, meeting key workers that
work with these women on the front line. And-- and so it is-- I
suppose it is, to me, just
important to show how sometimes things are wrong systemically
and that they're imbalanced and they're skewed a
certain way and that I want to question how we can--
how we can improve that. My favorite line in
the movie, and I actually was talking to my
colleague about it who had the opportunity to
see this at Sundance and told me that this was the
line that got huge applause when he saw it there,
was the line, ask better questions in the courtroom. And it's so true. Wh
ere did that come from? I just think it
was cathartic for-- I'm sure, for so many people. Talk about that. For me, it was just one
of those great writing moments in my kitchen. That's what it was at first. It was one of those things where
that's exactly what it was, trying to unpeel. It was like, how-- it's not
about just writing people talking to each other in
rooms in certain situations and researching them well. It's like, when you're
storytelling on your own film, and you're bringing
people
to see things, like, how do we take
it to that next level? And I thought, it's
about questioning the very thing itself and
getting right in there. And I remember writing that
line and going, ah, that's it. That's how we get in on it. And at that moment
in time, of course, I was just thinking of
Sandra against that system under George and how they-- they
just don't hear her correctly or ask her the right questions. And then when we
were in Sundance, it was quite a revelation
to me, actually, that
it was saying a lot more. It was saying a lot more
about, I don't know, journalism and how we narrate the
stories in our worlds and how we ask people in certain
positions, what do we ask them? And how do we ask them, and
are-- are these questions being answered at all? And I didn't realize that's
what that line was going to do until we got to Sundance. It's quite the rallying cry. Fantastic. It's absolutely fantastic. One of the things-- because we did have quite a
bit of conversation about it
amongst my colleagues, and we
really just adore this film, was when you're talking--
when you're taking this film that is about abuse
and-- and how to survive abuse, the-- the feel-goodness of it
and the empowerment of it is-- is surprising. But you just leave feeling
with, like, a hug for that. Like, you just hug them
in such a wonderful way because we wish such
positivity in their lives. And you feel like you have-- your friend is doing so well. How were you able to really do
that, accomplish
that so well? Was that something that was-- I mean, how? I'm just looking at the how. I'd say Phyllida would be
able to answer a bit more. But for me, anyway,
writing-wise, it was just-- I was following direction of one
of the first women I ever met in a women's aid charity shop. And she kind of-- I told her what I was doing. And she said please, please
tell the story that no one tells of the women that
actually get through this, get you to the other side. And they're absolute
heroes, and they d
o prevail. So that was my-- that was my
direction right from the start, but Phyllida will be able to
talk more about the kind of-- the tone and how we
directed it then, I suppose. Yeah, I mean, I think
that it did have this-- the-- the-- the screenplay
as I first saw it had this amazing shape,
almost of a thriller, where, you know, she-- she was striving, she was
set back, she had hope. She went-- it was it was
very kind of ingeniously constructed in that way. And I think that it came down
to th
e fact that Clare was-- she's sort of speaking
on two fronts. One is, she wants
social change, as I do. We're both been on this
kind of massive mission in-- in our work in the
theater to give, you know, voices to women
who are voiceless. And we want, you know, the
world to wake up and understand everyone has a right
to a house and how many of us, you know, in this-- this time of the
pandemic have felt what it is to feel
the safety of a home and that this is a human right. And we feel that, you k
now,
governments have to wake up and-- and understand that. On the other hand, you
know, Clare speaking to the individual women
who might be trapped, and thousands of women are
trapped worse now than they ever have been in
situations, domestic abuse, and saying to them, you know,
there might-- there is hope, if you take that step. And so it's sort of--
it's speaking to-- to the individual and-- and-- and to the society
at large at the same time. And so it has that
kind of, yeah, it's the light a
nd dark in it. And I think the
children who are really important part of the
movie, they are the future. And they're the future
that Sandra has-- she has created in them this
strength and resilience. And without giving any spoilers,
I-- you know, I think it's-- they're a-- they're a really,
really important part of this-- this journey. Absolutely. And you know, you
talk about how, you know, this-- this narrative
of the thriller, which is so true. And I remember thinking
at different parts, is it
OK to feel hopeful? And I think you did such
a great job of that. One of the things I
want to talk about was the brilliant use of music. And I loved the way you
intersperse music throughout this and your choice of music. I was wondering if you
could talk to the students a little bit about that
and what their choices were and how you make those choices. I mean, one of the
things-- we did start off, in the
editing process, in a very different place. I would say a much bleaker place
and a place th
at would have perhaps given the whole film-- would have kept it, perhaps,
in a very-- in a sort of-- in a middle, at
a different band, a slightly-- slightly
narrower bandwidth. And the decision to explore
kind of music coming from-- from the-- the building
site, the world that Sandra was in,
we started talking about Sandra's soundtrack-- you know, what was
in Sandra's iPod? And you know, it was
a mixture of kind of very indie Irish bands that
were playing on Irish radio and then kind of Irish
cl
assics that were in her DNA and then some kind
of blockbusters that just were things that, you
know, were like her anthems. So it sort of grew
very much out of Sandra the character and
what she was-- what she was hearing around her. You know, I wanted to
talk a little bit about-- it's funny, it reminds
me a little bit of like-- having also done
theater, of this, like, theater troupe of family
that you have around you, of these-- these people
that Sandra meets around-- along her way and who
becom
e her family and you-- you were speaking
of pandemic times, like roof over your
head, people who become your family, these
people who we kind of collect. So how did these,
partially in the writing and partially in
the way you shot it, how did you come up
with these characters, and then how did you shoot to-- to create this family
that surrounds her? At first, it was just
writing, obviously, the-- the ensemble. But really, I was writing
the Dublin of today, which is very multicultural. And so I w
as kind of working
off the palette of what I was seeing in life and observation--
like just observing Dublin and the world around me. And-- and then in
the casting process, it was amazing because
Phyllida and Louise really went out of their way-- Louise Kiely who cast. And they just went
out of their way to really find that ensemble. And by the time we came
to being on set, we-- we kind of-- it felt
almost documentary-like. It was like we were
just doing stuff, like, on the site and building. An
d-- and Phyllida just sort
of just followed us in a way. And I think that-- that
helped create the sense of authentic ensemble. And people genuinely
came together to help this woman, rather
than one minute they're there, one minute they're not. It's like, it was the gradual,
her asking them to help, et cetera, and coming on board. But I think it always
had that feeling of just, an organic growth, you know. And each-- each character has
their own little moment then. But yeah, that kind
of definit
ely helped. That was definitely
helped by Louise and-- and Phyllida in the casting. And we kind of come from the
theater, so we like rehearsing, and we knew we had-- in order to kind of use those
lethal power tools, we knew-- which we really were using-- we knew the actors had to
be trained to use them. And we wanted it to feel
very authentic on the site. Clare and I had gone off
and done a course in how to build a timber-framed house. So we were like, well in there
with, you know, what it felt
like to be in this-- in this-- this group who were
actually building this with their bare hands. But I think the-- our
theater background is good. We're good at creating ensemble
in a quick space of time. And sort of with a few key
people, like Harriet Walter and Conleth Hill around us, we
were able to support, you know, some of the more, perhaps,
inexperienced members of the ensemble and kind of put
them in an environment where they felt really safe
to just be themselves, which was what it was
about. You know, it's funny, I
wondered about if you, like-- did you take a class to
learn how to build this? Like how-- it
looks so realistic. Can you build a house now. Like, is this a skill
you have for life? Talk to us a little bit about-- you know, I don't know how
much you know about the makeup of the students here. But the amount of classes that
they take, and there are so many who are doing
cinematography and directing and acting and many of them who
are learning makeup from ones who are
doing set design. So tell us a little bit about
what it was like working on-site and what
it was like to just be surrounded by all the many
places where you were shooting. How did that play into
what you were doing? Phyllida. OK, so the
logistics of this just for-- for young filmmakers. You know, normally
on-- on any movie, you would have a location, and
you shoot out all the scenes you're doing on that
location because that's the logical way to use your
time, and time is everything. And-- but
with this,
we literally started off with a bare, green field. And when Conleth came
in with his digger and started scraping
it, you know, that was-- that was the first
damage that was done to it. And then-- because we
then needed foundations. We had to rush off somewhere
else and shoot other scenes. And then when we came back,
it was like, ooh, look, there are foundations. And as the house-- our construction crew
progressed the house, every time we came back, there was
this amazing sort of gasp
from the actors and the crew-- wow, look at it, you know. And again, without
giving any spoilers, there were other
kinds of gasps, you know, as we went through it. So it was a very
particular, both logistical, but also kind of
spiritual relationship to what was kind of-- what was growing in front of us. So we're running out
of time, unfortunately, but I did want to
ask you guys one more question for the students here. As people who have
had the opportunity to work both in
theater and in film, wh
at advice would you
give to the students who are here about, you know,
working between that transition and how you're able
to go for both? And obviously, you have
experience with reading and film and directing. I feel like you are a fount
of information for them-- just a general kind of
first word of advice you would offer them. Nothing is wasted in
terms of life experience in actually building a career-- I mean, nothing. And everything you do that's
nothing to do with film is going to be treasu
re-- treasure to put in the pot. Theater is a brilliant
training ground for movies, in terms of teaching
you about dramaturgy, about editing, because
you are constantly-- as a director, anyway-- editing where you want the
audience to look on a stage using light and composition. Don't try and solve
everything at once. The solution will
come, but it might not come until the last inch. Yeah, I'd say they're all
great pieces of advice. I think I took
them along the way. And I would say, acting-wise,
it's like you're always looking for authenticity anyway. The only difference is in a
theater, you just do it louder and make sure you're
facing the right direction. There is a general rule of don't
fall over furniture as well, but we'll leave
that to the side. If you're-- if you're also
just exploring and storytelling on any level, find out what it
is that makes you burn alive with passion and
curiosity because an idea that you have should maybe be
waking you up in the morning. It has to keep
y
ou going as well. You know, don't be just thinking
of what you want to sell. It's like, no, like, what
really, truly interests you and sparks you? Because that's what's
going to spark other people and-- and keep everyone,
then, that's involved in the project will-- will love doing that project. And also, if you are genuinely
interested in something, it's usually because it has
a million layers to unpeel. So you know you have a
good one when you have one. It's lots to find out. I love that. Well,
thank you so, so, so much. Unfortunately, we
are out of time. But a big virtual round
of applause for you both. And thank you so much
for your participation. Thank you for everyone at home
watching for your participation and for supporting the
art forms that make movies of the different nationalities. So enjoy the rest of the
SCAD Savannah Film Festival. And watch good films. So thank you, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you.
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