Open Source AI with Delusions of Danger & EU fires back at Apple

On this week's episode, we're going to talk about an article that states how open source is uniquely dangerous. Uh-oh, dun-dun-dun. Welcome to episode number 357 of Destination Linux, your favorite video podcast. My name is Jill. I'm Ryan. And I'm Michael. We're also going to cover Firefox's fight with Apple. Yeah, there is one brewing. Now, let's get the show on the road toward Destination Linux. I feel like a fox would beat an apple. Yeah. I was going to say Firefox versus Apple. Is that reall

y fair? It's a David Goliath situation there. I mean. One's got teeth and one's a fruit. You're right. From a mascot standpoint. Technically, a Firefox is not really a fox. It's a red panda. Because that's the other term of a red panda is a Firefox. And a panda and red panda are two different animals. Red Panda's not a panda. Yes, it is. Yeah. That's not confusing. I'm glad they needed it. Yeah. All right. You're welcome. Community feedback time. This week, our feedback comes from Carl. He says,

In episode 355, Ryan confessed to his fear of Chucky and spoke about his My Buddy doll. It was hilarious. If you haven't checked it out, go do that. We'll have it in the link in the show notes. I'm kind of embarrassed about that first sentence. I'm not going to lie. Like, Ryan has a My Buddy doll. Like, when I was a kid, everyone, I wanted you to be very clear. Like I don't currently have my buddy doll and I'm not. I like to imagine that you still have it and you're still terrified at this poin

t. And it goes back to the feedback. He says, at this point in the show, I began screaming out loud on my car, yes, yes, because I too had this exact experience with Chucky and my buddy doll. Not alone. He said. I loved this thing as a child. I took it everywhere with me until my father let me watch Chucky. It was immediately after that, my buddy doll sat on the highest shelf in my room and I would not fall asleep with my back turned to it and many nightmares about Chucky and that doll followed.

That's great. So, you know, I got to tell you that I feel like this is what the internet was meant for. Like this very moment right here. Because I felt very alone in this story. I felt very vulnerable sharing this story with our community. And then for Carl to come in and share my vulnerability and be like, that happened to me too. It connects the world. The internet's not always good. But this is an example of the good that it brings because it's an embarrassing story. Number one, I had a My

Buddy doll. Number two, I was scared to death that it was going to come alive and kill me. So, you know, it's great to know that somebody else shared this experience with me and that, you know, when I saw this message too, it made me go deeper into kind of understanding maybe more people have experienced this. And what are the origins of Chucky anyway? So I did some research. Hold on, before you get to that, I just I just looked at this money buddy dog because when you said it last last episode

or like 355 yeah I I didn't remember what it was I had no idea what you're talking about and then I went and looked at it just now I googled what what does it look like and I I had one of those as a kid and I remember distinctively now I didn't know it was called so when you said you said my I I actually had a similar thing because I was like this like I was not a fan of Chucky for sure, And then when I looked it up, I was like, oh, yeah, I can see why you think that's Chucky. Yeah. It's traumat

ized all of us. And they didn't have a, you know, like if Megan had come out, that movie Megan where the dog comes alive. But they had a kid sister version for girl. Yeah. They did. But girls, I don't think, were as traumatized because they didn't look like Chucky. Whereas my buddy literally looked like Chucky. So doing some research, discussing Chucky's design, his creator, Don Mancini, said in my original script, he was originally called Buddy and we couldn't use it because of the My Buddy dol

l. He knew what he was doing. He knew what he was doing. He was trying to scare kids of their doll that every kid was getting during this time. So he purposely went and terrorized kids. Kind of like how I terrorized Jill with picking horror games when we know she doesn't like horror games. I'm getting a taste of my own medicine. I was a little child, Don Mancini. I was a little child. It's all your fault. Ryan. Yeah. The best part about your story, Ryan, is the fact that, so Carl sent his messag

e in and said that he put it as far away as possible. And Ryan's like, just beat it up. I beat the crap out of it. I beat it so bad. It was like its face was smushed in and all this stuff. And then I pushed it to the very back of my bed and stuffed everything I could, all my toy boxes and everything, to slam it in the back. I beat it to the point where it was not going to come back alive. you know and come get me uh but then i started looking uh this story gets worse i started looking up the rea

l story of like how did he come up with this idea of this haunted doll and there's a real life haunted doll story called robert that that chucky's based off and these days you can visit robert otherwise known as robert the doll robert the haunted doll or robert the enchanted doll at the key west museum where he's on display behind a layer of safety glass and there's a lot of stories about how this doll terrorized a little kid and that is where the chucky thing came from originally so he got that

interesting i'm glad. You went back and gave us some information. About journalism movie that approach here is unbelievable your investigative. Journalism is very impressive with a thing about a doll you beat up because of a movie. Yeah so let's just say if don mancini ever comes and sees us like at scale or something I'm going to jump over that table and just let him have it. How could you do this? And he would just say. Traumatize me and Carl. How could you do this to so many people? And he's

like, well, it was child's play. Yeah, I think that's good. Very good. Yeah. Ryan, our scream or die game discussion from episode number 355 sure instilled lots of fear in all of us. And of course, as I said earlier, it's all your fault, Ryan. I blame you for giving me horror games to review and the nightmares they give us all. You should blame him for sure. I am the monster now, right? Yeah, you're the monster. I turned into the Don Mancini. What's the phrase? Destroyer of worlds. You have bec

ome destroyer of worlds. Yeah. Well, it was so funny because when you had brought that up the whole time, I was singing the song in the head, my head, because I remembered it when I was a senior in high school. My buddy, my buddy, wherever I go, he goes. And they had the girl. One kid sister. Kid sister, wherever I go, she goes. That is the song. Ryan's singing. My buddy, my buddy, I beat the crap out of him multiple times. Did you decapitate him? I did not. I didn't go that far. But listen, he

wasn't coming back from that. He was flat faced at that point. So real quick, though, when you were talking about the investigative journalism, again, impressive. Thank you. You got to the part where you said that they have this Robert doll behind the safety glass and it made me laugh. And I was thinking, you know, it's called safety glass because if it breaks, you won't get hurt by touching it as it's breaking. But it's not going to keep you safe from them haunted demons. The demon has all powe

rful and can haunt a doll that's like, not safety glass. Oh. No. How could you trap me inside this box? That's a really good point, Michael. All right. Well, Carl, I really do appreciate you sending this in because I feel like somebody else shared that same terror I had. And now I'm not as embarrassed by it. So there you go. I appreciate it. Nice. Thank you, Carl. And. If you would like to join us in sending us your childhood nightmares, you could go to tuxdigital.com/contact and send it in. The

re's nothing open source about this whole thing. This part of the show has nothing to do with anything. The rest of it will be open source, I promise. There's somebody out there like, this show has nothing to do with Linux. I was scared. Our show is both Linux and entertainment. It's true. We covered that part pretty good, I think. This episode is brought to you by Namecheap. Now, Namecheap is where we go to get all of our domains. And if you know anything about Michael, who's responsible for ou

r domains, there's a lot of them. There's like a lot. And Namecheap is a fantastic place to go and get the domains you need to start your new business and start it cheaply. You can get URLs. You can do self-hosting. You can have WordPress set up for you. Or you can just get the domain itself and set all that stuff up elsewhere. They have all kinds of options, whether you're a blogger, small business owner, you have big dreams on the internet. Well, Namecheap is the place to check out. So head to

DestinationLinux.net/namecheap to get started and check out all the options that you have for starting your next big business or even small business or blog or whatever it is. It's all there. Whether you have a big idea or the next big business, the price is not big at Namecheap. You know, Michael, Chucky doesn't scare me anymore, but there is something that is starting to scare me, and that is AI. AI is starting to scare me a little bit. So iRobot, is that the problem? IRobot is scaring me. Wh

at is going to happen? Have you seen the news of how many tech jobs have been lost just in January? It's in the tens of thousands of jobs are being lost. And what's really interesting about this is a lot of these companies don't even have AI even implemented. But it's just the thought of having AI makes them get rid of a bunch of employees out there. The idea that they're implementing this thing and they're not going to need them. And it's creating some really crazy fear of AI. That sounds insan

e. It's like. Yeah. How do you get rid of jobs because you have the possibility of AI taking their job? The way it was explained to me. And I'm not saying every company is doing this. The way it was explained to me of what's happening is the companies basically are going, they know that they can get their stock to go up if they use the term AI. But if they use the term AI, they kind of have to show that we've got it implemented. And a lot of them, like, you know, I think PayPal recently announce

d AI was their big story that was going to shock the world. Like, I don't think that's shocking the world anymore. But then they go and they have to lay people off now to prove that they've got some kind of AI working. Because that's the whole idea, right? If you get AI in, you don't need as many people because AI is doing this stuff. But if you say you have AI and you're growing or not getting rid of people, then you don't really have AI. That sounds terrible. It's horrific. I mean, that's horr

ific, too. But also, just real quick, I just want to take a second and say. PayPal. Mm-hmm. What could you possibly do that AI would be good for? So instead of taking care of the finances that people have been in, you've actually dropped the ball on a few times. You're trying to now implement AI that will guarantee mess up and then make up a bunch of nonsense. So when I check to see how much I have in my PayPal, it's going to tell me something wrong. What is that even going to do? Now you defini

tely can't speak to a customer service representative. Yeah. And then you have to rehire those people back after you realize it's a failed initiative. Well. Some of the positions these companies are releasing are positions that just a few years ago, they were paying top dollar fighting to steal from Apple and Facebook. And all of these companies were trying to get the – these are engineers. These are top software developers that are losing their positions. I don't know if this is relevant. but j

ust recently as in like a couple weeks like a week or week and a half ago or something like that there was this viral video that went out where this person got fired from i'm pretty sure i can't guarantee it so i might be wrong but i think it was cloudflare and they got fired after only working there for four months and they had like three months of ramping so they only had like like two or three weeks of actual work. And they were told that their performance wasn't up to par, but they hadn't ha

d enough time to even have performance. Oh, yeah. That was the girl, right? It was a girl. Yeah. Exactly. She recorded them firing her. She recorded the whole thing, and they had absolutely no idea. They didn't know who she was. They didn't know why she was getting fired. They had no idea. And then the CEO came out and said, like, oh, yeah, we're so sorry that that happened. He didn't do anything about it. They didn't fix it. They're just like. We're sorry you heard it. I guess. So it's like, I

wonder if they were implementing AI and that's what their reasoning was. Because that makes more sense than what they told us. So this gets a little bit weirder. So bringing this back to open source and going through the news articles for open source this week, I came across an article titled, Open Source AI is Uniquely Dangerous. Uniquely Dangerous. Uniquely Dangerous. So that's the title, right? It says open source right in it. It's not even saying just AI in general, whatever. No, open source

AI is uniquely dangerous. In this article, the author lays out the case that many are familiar with ChatGPT and Bards that are owned by big companies and that these big companies, and I quote, keep the underlying software secure. It's secure because people don't know how to get to it technically. Like that's what he means by secure. It's secure to the average user, but I mean, let's think about, well, we'll get into that in a second. Before we get into that. I just want to clarify the things th

at he's talking. He says open source in the beginning, but once he establishes that, he keeps using the term unsecure every time. That's a good point. So he's not actually referring to, he's basically trying to, if you read the rest of the article, he's trying to convince you that the unsecure factor of AI is the problem, but he's associating those two things as the same. So he's using the word secure very loosely. This is a person, in my opinion, who knows nothing about open source and nothing

about the community. And I invite them to learn. Start from episode one of Destination Linux, go up to this episode here, and then become a part of the community and understand what open source is before you write what I consider to be complete human garbage. So the next part of this article goes on to say, or one of my favorite parts with the fear mongering is, less well understood by the public is the rapid and uncontrolled release of powerful, unsecured, sometimes called open source, AI syste

ms. That's a quote. Da-da-da. Like, listen to those words there. The rapid and uncontrolled release of powerful, unsecured, sometimes called open-source AI systems. That's the clear part I wanted to make sure. The rest of the article, he keeps saying unsecured. He doesn't use open-source anymore. But he means the same thing. And also, just even unsecured is somehow closed software is secured automatically, in his opinion, which makes no sense. Because they don't tell you about it. And, you know,

honestly, maybe he's right. Because think about how secure our data has been with these big companies. I mean, have they ever let us down? Absolutely not. There's no evidence of that happening except for like a couple days ago and like a couple weeks ago and a couple months ago. and then all the time. All of our DNA data that was sent to a certain company. Yeah. There was like 14 million things of DNA that was released by some unnamed 23andMe company. Because it was kept in a text file, proprie

tary, but it was kept in a text file out there on a server, the passwords and usernames. And then wasn't there like a huge, like, I don't know, there's this big company that does all of your credit ratings and stuff that they lost all of our social security numbers and everything out there? Oh, yeah. Oh. Yeah. I mean. That was proprietary. I think you're thinking of something else. It was, no, that happened to Equifax. Good job. Yeah, Equifax. That's right. You know, proprietary software is so s

ecure, it's not rapid. So secure. And it's not dangerous. It's just so secure. Yeah. So real quick, yes, the closed software is harder to see, but security has, there's this phrase called security through obscurity, which means that it's not secure at all. And that is what your argument is, that somehow obscurity is now security. Yeah. They then discuss how OpenAI closed-sourced their code because it was too dangerous to be open-sourced. It was too dangerous. Yeah. When I read that, I bust out l

aughing. Yeah. It's like, it's too dangerous. Or maybe, maybe. What could it be. Mike? Was there another theory here? You got another one? Maybe. Okay. Bear with me. It might be outlandish, but... Okay, okay? You ready? Oh, this is one of those crazy conspiracy theories. I know, but it might be true... Money. No. Capitalism. You mean they closed it for money? And not for money? They closed it for money. It's not like, oh, all of a sudden they closed it and then tons and tons of investments came

up and there was tons of money involved. That's not what happened. No, we're just saying allegedly that could be it. That's just our, yeah, it's a theory, Michael's saying. It's a theory that we don't have evidence to prove because we don't have access to their finances, which is probably still. Didn't they get a ton of investment, like billions of dollars in investment? Once they closed sourced it. It's weird. They closed sourced it and then they got like $10 billion. So maybe we do know the re

ason. No, it's alleged. It's all about dangerousness. They wanted to protect us. Big companies only want to keep us safe. They only want to make sure you are safe giving them money. Yeah. Remember the one person who was a president or something said said the most dangerous words in the world is I'm from the government and I'm here to help. I feel like corporations. So true. On the other hand. I work on AI. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It discusses how companies like Meta have gone the opposite direction, r

eleasing powerful and insecure open source AI. They also mentioned companies like Stability AI, Hugging Face, Mistral, Letłycher AI. AI. I know I messed that up. And the Technology Innovation Institute. So they named them all. I just need to say this hugging face, wonderful name. I know, isn't that a great name? That's so fun. It is good. Good job. But also, just the thing about the insecure open source AI from Facebook. Why are you making me defend Facebook? Right. How could you? Also, you used

to work there. What are you talking about? Destination Facebook. That's what we're going to call our episode. No, I'm saying the guy who wrote this article, used to work at Facebook and is now talking about how Facebook is like releasing this. Because they're being dangerous. Oh, that's why. Oh, I see. He wants to protect us too. Protest totally wasn't for clicks so why is this so dangerous you know uh this is where it gets really good they give some examples he said use ai to create a more dea

dly coronavirus make explosive weapons make adult themed deep fakes of people or write text messages designed to make voters and swing states more angry about immigration and by the way everything he mentioned here already actually has happened in the closed source ai proprietary secure tools like yeah they also it's already happened but also. That stuff has happened before the ai. Yeah it's called the internet yeah. I mean like. There's. Literally has anyone ever heard of the the um hackers coo

kbook. Oh yeah yeah it's not the hackers cookbook it's the cookbook yeah yeah i know what you're talking Anarchist cookbook. Anarchist cookbook. That was from before the World Wide Web. Yeah. But the government banned it. It went away immediately. Oh. Yeah, it totally went away for sure. Yeah, that was from around the BBSs when I was younger. You totally couldn't go anywhere on the internet and find people who would give you this information anywhere. It's just AI, the insecure, I'm sorry, open

source AI that does this stuff. It's not like there's literal websites that have these things accessible. You just ask for it, you know, or also like some of the stuff that's on here. I'm not going to specify, like, let's say, for example, the deep fake thing, Google, that will just keep you deep. Any celebrity, Google. And, you know, yeah, there's deep fakes everywhere. Like, what are you talking about? Hey, Apple just did it with their new face hugger. I call it the face hugger. Oh. The Vision

Pro. The Apple Vision Pro. Yeah. Okay. So the face hugging confused me because I was thinking of hugging face, the AI. But now I realize that's an alien reference, right? Yes, it is. Okay. Don't get us wrong now. Don't get us wrong. Like, I'm not saying that allowing things like deepfake unregulated and having more rules is okay. hey, I'm saying no matter what you regulate, people are going to do these things anyways. And yes, you should have rules about them and make sure they can be taken dow

n. And yes, it sucks and it's unfair that we have people out there who want to embarrass or ruin people's lives or exploit them in some way. Those are called garbage people. But AI is not the beginning of this, nor will it be the end of this. Yeah, that's our point was like, this is not a new thing. These things have happened for a long time. time maybe this would accelerate the creation. Make them worse make them hard because they can make you talking michael like they're they deep fake a lot o

f celebrities like for instance joe rogan did you just call me a celebrity thank. You ryan thank. You joe rogan's very popular and he's been deep faked of selling stuff where they make a video it looks like he's actually talking about this thing on a podcast that's not real so it is more advanced but again it's happening with or without these open source tools it's happening the proprietary secure tools out there as well like there's a whole thing about people exploiting the prompts in chat gpt

to make it do what you want and there's a whole list of things you can make it do that it's not supposed to so going down the list everything mentioned here like we said has already happened with current so-called secure AI and exploits. And I'm just at the point where I really don't think this person understands what they're talking about and are kind of creating, in my opinion, a very clickbait article. But on the last part, he does do a lot of work here listing out things that the author thin

ks would be a good starting point for not just open source AI, but all AI. However, if you go down this list, which I will here, you'll notice that most of this stuff would be... tremendously impactful to just open source, such as Paul's all new releases of unsecured AI systems, which, by the way, Michael, as you pointed out, unsecured means open source. So ChatGPT is totally fine. Yeah, totally cool. Man. He'll keep it going. It's totally safe. It's the best. It's so secure and stuff, and it's

got billions of dollars. Don't worry about people who actually are writing the code or anything. No proprietary companies ever had a problem. It's so safe. By the way, real quick, quick uh just so you know we're going to link this article in the show notes and i just wanted to point out the top of the list that says that this is not a reflection of the uh website that has posted it which is the ieee spectrum they are saying this is a guest post so i wouldn't allow yeah i mean i yes i think the w

hole guest post thing like it's this does not reflect us like you are agreeing that it's good enough to be on your website so it kind of is in a way you know, If this person just wanted to put it on their own blog or something. I guess that'd be fine. This is something I expect to find on a GeoCities blog. That's the quality of this article here. Establish registration and licensing. Of course, because that's always good for small business. Licensing, registrations, that type of stuff. Create li

abilities. That's the, the number three was the worst. I saw this. Okay. This is easily the worst thing on this list. Some of this stuff is not that bad. Establish risk assessment and requirements of independent audits. Watermarking. I like that. I agree with it. I think the watermarking is also kind of not necessarily possible depending on what the AI is doing, but in a way that also is good. If you can somehow embed a watermarking, that's good. The independent auditing is good, especially with

open source. Anyone can audit anytime, if he understood what that would mean. Also require transparency of training data. That's also part of open source automatically. Congratulations. So, you know, good list there so far. Require and fund independent researcher access. I mean, how would an open source thing even do that? How would anything do that unless you create like a some kind of like a foundation to do? I don't know. That's not really a regulation anyway, right? But the number three is

the dumbest one. I mean, I don't use that lightly. I'm not saying I'm attacking this person. It's just it's just a ridiculous suggestion because create liability is what he's saying that a anyone who a company an individual anyone who makes ai software if someone not that person if someone else takes that software and does something malicious to harm an individual or harm society whatever michael ai for instance for example yes they would want to blame he wants to create a thing where the indivi

dual who wrote or the company who wrote it is now liable and it has And has to take consequences for someone else's action. Yeah. Ridiculous. It's insane. Yeah. It's easily the dumbest thing on this list because there's actually currently already a law, for the opposite on websites where you're saying that you can't blame a website for something that someone did on the website because you know youtube would not exist if they if youtube was blamed for some of the ridiculous stuff that's on here o

r twitter for example like none of this stuff would exist i mean i guess it doesn't exist anymore but try. To audit and take things down but like imagine if. Yeah the music. Studios were just suing youtube every time someone posted a video with that. Music. In there they obviously. Have to take it down the idea of someone putting in some effort to kind of get rid of it is one thing but to make someone liable as if it's their fault it's just it's honestly it's it's so it's so ridiculous it border

lines insanity it's. Scary now this part of the list i liked 13 just reduce chemical biological radiological and nuclear risks like i agree like. We should totally just. Reduce those risks. You are good at creating lists bro Yeah. He's probably one of the best list creators I've ever seen. I also like to automate digital signatures. That is very, very important. I think that would be fine. Yeah. I mean, some of this stuff is not bad. Mandatory incident disclosure. Sure. Of course. It. Only impac

ts the little guy. That's the problem with these things. Small business and open source. I mean. Not only does this, I mean, these are like targeted at the little guy, targeted at the open source. Lobbyists will make sure any laws don't impact the big corporations, but that the small companies that can't afford to figure out all the little, you know, verbiage of each law that's written perfectly to get around it, which we're actually going to talk about in our next section, how that happens. the

people who don't have lawyers to do that, you know, an independent open source developer, for instance, it's not going to even want to do that or spend the time there. They just want to create stuff. This is just going to, unfairly target closed source or open source software and allow closed source companies to thrive in this and that to me is very scary unlike the writer of this article i don't have i haven't over the years just built this incredible trust for big corporations to think that t

hey're out there to keep us all safe you know otherwise we probably wouldn't even be dealing with like 20,000 layoffs in January if all these big corporations were just using AI so, what's the word, so responsibly, then we probably wouldn't be dealing with the stuff that we're in now. So, yeah. Yeah. To me, one of the scariest things when I was reading this, Michael and Ryan, is that it's so well written that anyone reading it, just like the average consumer, could be easily easily convinced tha

t closed source is better for AI. And it's just very, very scary to me, especially because we've been talking about the benefits of open source AI in the past and its systems of checks and balances. So that's a fantastic point. And also, I started laughing because I just thought of something. thing what do you think is the possibility that this was rewritten by an ai to make it seem person's really well written like like because a lot of people talk about how ai is terrible at coming up with wit

h facts and that's true ai is terrible at a lot of things it makes up all sorts of stuff but it's really good at rewriting things and writing in a certain context in a certain like like tone and voice and stuff like that. So what if this person wrote an article and then said, hey, rewrite this and make it seem better and make it seem like it's valid and stuff. Yeah. And this came... That's just funny if that's true. Yeah. Because a lot of people are using the AI to do their jobs and stuff. Yeah.

Sometimes that backfires and sometimes it doesn't. But I agree, this was really well-written. It just made me think about like, I wonder if he actually wrote it. Not that it's well-written, but the title is totally meant like you said, Jill, that the average person seeing this title is open source. AI is uniquely dangerous. That's like not AI in general needs some guardrails or we should be thinking about guardrails for AI. No chat GPT. Totally cool, man. Uh, Open-source AI. Uniquely dangerous.

Barred, man. The best. Yes. Uniquely dangerous here. That's a good point, Jill. Yeah. And, you know, on Destination Linux, actually episode number 340, we talked about the great work that Fujitsu is doing with AI with the Linux Foundation and the fostering of open-source AI and its creation and creating guardrails for just this thing. An open source consortium to create guardrails for AI that'll benefit the world and humanity. Yeah. That's great. And I think those things are important for it. A

nd I'm not saying that, I don't feel comfortable to say that AI is not going to be dangerous to some level. And I'm not saying that open source AI also might be dangerous to some degree. Because you can't really blame the technology for the awful garbage that exists in our species. That people will do. Yeah, yeah. It's going to happen. So that's a sad fact, but it is a fact. So I don't think there's any kind of idea we could say that this is not a good idea to create guardrails. Totally agree th

at there should be some level of guardrails and some level of effort to put into making sure that the AI is done as responsible as possible. But I would like to point out something else in this article, because it wasn't just regulate the AI. There was also some other suggestions that could be done, suggestions for the company, suggestions for regulation, suggestions for the governments and what the government can do. And I also busted out laughing at this part. Establish a nimble regulatory bod

y that can act and enforce quickly and update certain enforcement criteria. This is a suggestion for what governments can do to create action. And they say that this entity would have the power to approve or reject risk assessment, mitigations, audit results, and have the authority to block model deployment. That wouldn't be used. Of course they wouldn't abuse it. I mean, lobbyists have never made that happen on any level. But also... establish a nimble regulatory body from a government have you

ever heard of government because like what regulatory body you know of is nimble and updates quickly and enforces everything that's. The opposite of government yeah. Exactly like what are you even talking about at this point yeah this part i feel like was like an ai written part because i mean if anybody Any human read this, we'd be like, no, that's not a thing. What are you talking about? So we'll have a link to the article. A person who wrote it is a public scholar. I'd use that term very loo

sely, in my opinion, at UC Berkeley. These new universities, these big universities that had this great reputation, they're really ruining those reputations lately by letting some of these people speak. And yeah, they're from the International Computer Science Institute. So I hope... And also the Integrity Institute. It's so bad. So there's a visit. It says visiting fellow at the Integrity Institute. First of all, I don't know what that means. Secondly, that sounds so fake. You've been a visitin

g fellow to my house. Hello, visiting fellow. Hello. Hey. That's AI Michael speaking. Well. I looked it up to see if the Integrity Institute is a thing. It turns out it is a thing. I still don't know what it does. But to me, when I first read it, I was like, is that real Integrity Institute? That seems fake. That seems like a University of Phoenix thing. Isn't that a South Park thing? Tegrity Farms. Tegrity Farms. Tegrity Farms. Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. Anyways, this is our opinion on the article

. We'll link it. You can look at it for yourself. Make up your own minds. Maybe you agree with them. We could be wrong. Open sourced is uniquely dangerous in this area. But I think the cat's out of the bag already. All these tools are out there and there's no pulling it back in. And a lot of these suggestions only hurt this one. Even if you could pull it back in, There's no way the government's going to be nimble enough to do it. Oh, you don't know our government, Michael. They're very nimble. T

he nimblest. That's what I hear. The nimblest. Yeah. This episode of Destination Linux is sponsored by LINBIT. LINBIT has been keeping digital businesses running for over 20 years. They're the makers of open-source products like DRBD, which is high-availability software that has been part of the Linux kernel since 2010, and LinStore, industry-leading open-source software-defined storage. LINBIT has an active presence in the open source community and they collaborate with the community to help id

entify and build new features. LINBIT provides enterprise-grade software that runs on a variety of platforms and OSs without vendor lock-in. What that means is that you could choose the software on any platform, including specific hardware that you want to use or just off-the-shelf hardware that you get and connect it. All of this stuff can be interchanged really easily. And with DRBD and LinStore, you can have high-speed replicated block storage in almost any configuration, whether it's Kuberne

tes, Apache Cloud, or OpenNebula. There's even DRBD proxy for long-distance replication. LINBIT is run by its founders to this day, and all of its engineers and developers are in-house. with offices in Europe and North America, which allows them to have global 24-7 support to complement their enterprise offerings. Visit LINBIT.com to learn more about the people behind LINBIT and the awesome software for block storage, duplication, and more. Apple has been known for doing some things that are not

necessarily against any regulation, not necessarily illegal, but kind of sketchy and kind of acting in a little bit it like they're getting away with it because they can sort of thing. So we're going to talk about something that happened related to Apple's browsers. People who are like Firefox, for example, creating browsers on Apple devices like iOS. Because for those who don't know, every browser up until this point, and maybe still even, we'll get to that in a second, have been using the Web

Kit engine, not their own engine, because of Apple's requirement for them to do it. So effectively making every browser on iOS, Safari with a different scan and some extra features here and there, but basically the rendering is all the same thing. So that has now changed sort of, kind of, not really. Safari's engine, what power is it? You have to use that. Even though I downloaded Firefox on my Apple device, I'm really using kind of a little bit of a GUI with some extra features sitting on top o

f Safari's same engine because they can't use their actual engine. Firefox can't. Right, but this week, everything has changed, right, Ryan? Everything has changed. Thankfully, and I do mean this, the EU has been cracking down on some of this crap. That's why we have USB-C on Apple devices, by the way, thanks to the EU cracking down on some of Apple's crap. Yeah, first of all, thanks to the EU, that part's real. The changing everything, that part's not. Yeah. Yeah. Let's continue. Apple is suppo

sed to open iOS up to other browsers now, thanks to the EU. They have new laws that they've passed to basically say, hey, Firefox or DuckDuckGo, they want to use their own engine. You have to allow it. You can't force them to use the Safari engine in there, which is fantastic. So now these browsers actually have an opportunity to compete on their own, to create a faster browsing experience, create a better browsing experience because of the EU. And this is just fantastic news. And that's it. So

we can move on to gaming now. Oh, hold on there, sir. I was mentioning the fact that it's not exactly everything, you know, rosy and daisies and stuff. Sounding good. So the issue here is that while this is good, and I'm glad that the EU is cracking down on this sort of thing. Let's face it. It has been over 15 years at the status quo of Apple requiring WebKit to be. It's not like we're shocked by this in the sense of like Apple has saying like, okay, you're going to make us do this, but ha ha,

loopholes now. So basically what they decided to do was make it so that Apple allows, or the EU can only basically tell Apple what to do in the EU. And Apple said, okay, fair enough. We will allow people to use something that's not WebKit in the EU. but everywhere else well you still got WebKit so. I download Firefox here in the good US of A and you still have WebKit I get WebKit okay. Because technically the EU can't force Apple to do things outside of the EU. So Apple agreed to allow this to h

appen for users in the EU. They used some of the text in there basically to say. Hey. We only have to listen to this in the EU and nowhere else. Again, big corporations keeping us secure, always being upfront and honest. Always using safety glass to protect us from the deal. You know um so firefox is uh damiano damiano maybe i hope i didn't damiano damonte has called apple's execution of it extremely disappointing because this puts all of the work back on firefox or duck duck go for instance bec

ause now they have to maintain two different versions of their app one that they could not use webkit in in the eu and then for For everybody else, you've got to use, they've got to create the app that, of course, uses WebKit. And so this is where Firefox and Apple were going at it. And if we're just talking about their logos here, I think Firefox is going to win this fight because of Fox. We talked about it in the intro. Kill an apple. A fox is definitely going to eat an apple. But if we're tal

king about the size of a corporation, Apple's pretty big. Yeah. They're pretty big. So, pretty big. I applaud Firefox for coming out publicly and saying, I agree. Hey. This is trash. And also, Michael, your favorite person, like Michael has a poster of this person. It's like one of his favorite people in the world. Epic CEO Tim Sweeney called the new term a horror show. And Spotify said the changes are a farce. Not a fart, a farce. Very close to each other. Kind of both. Kind of both in a way. S

o first of all, for those who are curious, I'm not a fan of Tim Sweeney. I never have been. No, thank you. you uh so uh also i like to say that most of what tim sweeney it says is a horror show in his opinion in my opinion but in this case i agree uh apple why would you make me agree with tim sweeney how could you do that so we're on facebook and team sweeney's like what is this episode me agreeing with people i don't want to like ah so so painful um for those who don't get the joke uh tim sween

ey runs Epic Games, they took over Rocket League, removed Rocket League from Linux, and, also, he's also gone on record to say that Linux is not worth caring about. Not in those exact words, but the way he said it, I was paraphrasing, but he basically said it. That's how Michael interpreted it. That is how I did it. He said. Uh, Making something for Linux is like someone saying that they're going to move to Canada because the president that was elected was not the one they wanted. That's actuall

y still paraphrasing, but that is pretty much what he said. So that's how I interpret it. We get it. Michael. Stop. This isn't about Tim Sweeney. He's on our side now. Rocket League, Ryan. I know, but he's on our side. He's on our side on this one. You know what? In protest, I uninstalled Rocket League. There you go. I also installed it again a year later and started playing it again. But that one year. They got none of Michael's Diamond Club champion Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu 3 level rank. I already

paid for the game like years before, so they didn't really get any of my money in the first place. Anyway, so I agree that this is a horror show and that it's also a farce. Because what Apple is doing here is definitely not playing fair. however it is smart business because unfortunately it is because what they're doing is basically making the choice back on the browsers and the ones that can afford to make it they could make a copy make one for eu and make another one for the everybody else or

they could make it some kind of appeal to get the eu to do something a little more than that who knows but the the main reason and I feel like it's a good business decision is because all of the burden is not on Apple. So they basically are just like, okay, you said we have to let this happen, but you didn't say we had to let it happen globally. So, okay, great. But- You know what? You know what bothers me? Like, you're right, okay? And this is not about what you just said, but that term in gene

ral is like, it's a smart business decision. I know this is not what you meant, but I've just been thinking a lot about this lately. And most of the time when you say that sentence or that term, you are basically saying they are doing something that is legally okay, but also ethically awful. But I think I see a lot of people defend companies like it's brilliant move, it's so smart. And it's like we lost a part of ourselves in society when we started excusing greedy, stupid, obnoxious behavior as

saying it's smart business. And because we have no standards anymore more of morality for companies or anybody for that matter when somebody screws somebody over now they're like good business here's your stock bump instead of saying what you're doing is horrible, And that is what is causing people to really just despise companies and really not be able to find their place, I feel like, in society. And I'm going way too deep for an Apple Firefox article, but you said these key words that trigge

red me, Michael. That triggered you. You weren't meaning it that way, but I see people defending companies all the time. Well, that's smart business, but it's just morally corrupt, a lot of the things these companies do. And we don't hold anybody to any standards anymore. more and it just sucks that we think on those terms of if they screwed you over and stole 10 million dollars they're smart and you're an idiot and you know. Well there's a difference between so in my opinion there are two comes

there's two forms of smart business decision i do think that the vast majority of the time when someone says smart business decision is describing something that is not illegal but is unethical and uh an action that is not should not be excusable but what they're doing is like, oh, that's so smart. Ha ha, they're geniuses. And they're plotting it most of the time. But there is a case where sometimes you can do things that is a smart business decision that is still not terrible to do. This is no

t one of those, but it is possible. I've seen it happen many occasions. Yeah. But it is, so it is an interesting point you make and an interesting tangent you went on because I feel like you're right. Yeah. With like a little bit of an asterisk. maybe 10% of the time it's not the case. I think what Apple is proving here is they don't think they're actually good enough at coding. They don't think their engineers are actually smart enough to fairly compete, So they have to make these rules up that

only apply to everyone else trying to create software on their platform. And it sucks because Apple does a lot of cool things with their hardware. But either you believe in your product, your engineers, and the people you have working for you, and your $3 trillion that you have backing you versus Firefox and say, let's create a fair playing ground and see if we can compete. Or you do what Apple's done and just pushed everybody else out and you kind of force the situation where you always win. C

ongratulations. You got $3 trillion. You locked down your whole operating system. You win. I mean, yay. Good for you. So here's the weird part about this. I feel like Apple makes really cool products in certain cases. Sometimes they make insanely stupid products like that monitor arm that's like $1,000. Or the mouse you have to turn on its side to plug in and charge. The mouse that you can't use while it's charging has to be on its back. You have to kill your mouse in order to charge it. like it

's so so ridiculous so dumb some of the things they do is just absolutely insane but some of the stuff they do is actually pretty good and the problem is is that there are like as a technology enthusiast we're all fans of good technology it doesn't matter like who's making it we're not gonna be like oh this one company made this thing and it's so good but i'm gonna hate it anyway that's that's that's no technology there are people like that but they're not not enthusiasts they're more like like

hardcore zealots kind of people yeah and and that's whatever fine you want to do that whatever but we're acknowledging that sometimes things are done well and made good and you know apple has done some cool stuff and they also revolutionize the smartphone market no matter what you want to say about it like the smartphone market did not exist in the way it does now without apple making the iphone and stuff like that so yeah the blackberry which has been around for not at all now. So... They're st

ill around. They just ain't doing much. They don't do anything like they used to do. I don't think they even make phones anymore. But... Anyway, point is, Apple has made some good stuff, but they also are notorious for doing things that are not above board. For example, the whole idea that they, you know, the iPhone 15 now uses USB-C. Let's celebrate Apple! Because the EU forced them to do it. Like. They only do things like this because they have to. Yeah. And in some ways... It's your smart bus

iness turning into a marketing experience. In some ways, that's smart business. Smart business. It is. And you guys know when I was reading this article and I'd been, all of a sudden, my YouTube feed shot up with all this information, Apple versus Firefox. And my first thought was, uh-oh, we have a war again. Microsoft Explorer versus Netscape. Here we go again. Yeah. Firefox versus Apple. Yeah. And what's sad about this, though, we touched upon it earlier, was Mozilla, their resources are alrea

dy limited. I mean, they had laid off a lot of people. And now they're going to have to make three mobile versions now for Android, for iOS with WebKit, and for iOS with Gecko. That's a lot of work for them. I'm also i've also realized that there's another smart business decision version that's sad you know because the smart business decision for mozilla would be to just keep making the one with webkit of course not making another one yep 100 and that's not necessarily anything there's not that'

s not unethical that's totally fine technically with a smart business decision but it also it kind of blows yeah. And you know to me my opinion after reading these articles and and seeing all this information is, Apple should just do the right thing and let all the browsers use their own engines globally. Jill. You are a comedian, Jill. You are a comedian. I vote Jill for president. I do too. Yes. I vote Jill for president. We should write Jill's name in. I vote Jill for emperor of the planet. Y

es. Emperor penguin. See? We already have a mascot for the planet now. Jill. You know, when I was writing a lot of these stories this week, it was getting really depressing. So I tried to find the happiest game I could find on Steam for us to talk about this week. What did we come up with? Oh, it is a fun game. So this game this week is called Into the NecroVale. It sounds kind of sad and creepy. It sounds like it's talking about going to Hades or something. It is about death a bit. it oh maybe

maybe i was too depressed it seemed positive right it seemed happier than the other news stories so yeah so um the developer actually describes the game on steam like this enter the necrovel is an action rpg in which you collect powerful items that interact with one another you must be clever with your build if you hope to peace the mysteries and dangers of the necrovel where a thousand generations of miscreants and criminals have been banished all the corporate yeah yes so this is actually an e

arly access game with a demo available to try out for free and so far it's received 66 very positive reviews and it just came out and Into the Necroville is a little bit of Castlevania, a little bit of Gauntlet, a little bit of Zelda. And to me, it's a little bit of Diablo all mixed into one. That's nostalgia overload there, Jill. Yes, absolutely. I've never heard of Gauntlet. But the rest of it, I do. You haven't heard of Gauntlet? Oh. You commie. Like, what? I mean, you can call me a loadout,

but not a commie. I had a lot of fun playing the demo now I'm. Curious when when was gauntlet made gauntlet was. When I was. A kid it was out on the arcades it was out. Yeah that was an old arcade game I was. Playing basketball or something oh stupid sports and activity and being physical. Yeah healthy so lame what a nerd what. A nerd playing sports. Yeah well i had a lot of fun playing the demo um and it's a really beautiful game it's it's extremely atmospheric artfully designed and has a reall

y fun soundtrack and you can pick it up on steam for 14.99 and it works natively on our Linux Emperor Penguins out of the box. Yes. Nice. Love it. Real quick, I wanted to just follow up with an article I saw, and Ryan doesn't even know this is coming, but this was funny because talking about something that's sad, I saw this article that first made me laugh and then thought of Jill, and I thought, maybe it's kind of sad. So Japan has announced that they're no longer requiring floppies to be sent

for official documents. documents and I thought that's kind of hilarious that they still required floppies for anything because that many of them I saw this article I thought, The whole meme of the Jumanji meme of like, what year is this? Right. And yeah, and it's wonderful. But then I thought maybe, Jill, this would be sad because then you wouldn't be able to use the floppies anymore. Yeah. And how does this make you feel, Jill? Oh, I was sad to hear it. Also because I like to go to the local J

apanese stores like Dezo, and I can still get floppy disk cases and holders there. So this is going to prevent that from happening. Maybe it'll be like the vinyl records will come back around. But, you know, Sony stopped producing. They were the last company to stop producing floppy disks a long time ago. So it is understandable, but it is just so sad. It makes sense. And it's sad. It just reminded me of this thing where like Japan's technology thing is so, it's so fascinating. You should just g

o. There's probably some documentaries about this. And I just want to like just talk about it for a second because it's just so fascinating because Japan has like so they have so much technology advancement and so much cool stuff. And at the same time, they don't want to get rid of any technology so that you can go to a store and buy a DVD, Blu-ray, VHS, 8-track player combo thing. Yes. Like that's why. Yeah. And they were still, they're still using floppies, CD-ROMs, CD-Rs and CD-RWs and mini d

isks. Mini disks have been gone a long time too. Listen, I just saw a breaking news article here. Japan's also getting rid of punch cards. So this is also very sad. Punch cards are gone away. It's kind of sad because the only thing that they can use now that's really sneaker net is the USB flash drive. Yeah. So real quick though, they didn't say that you can't use the floppies. I didn't see that mentioned. They just said it's not a requirement anymore. It's not a requirement anymore. So I think

you still can do it. So people will still be using them. Yeah. Oh man, they should probably create a regulatory agency that's really nimble. Very nimble. People don't use that anymore. You know. Really. Or they could just set up some AI to tell you what's the new technology that's going to be so you can start using that instead. Yeah. Cool. All right, Jill. Software spotlight. I know I picked something really happily titled here. What do we got? Yeah. It's called Reckoner. That's an interesting

title. It sounded kind of serious to me. Reckoner. Well. I thought that. Okay. When I first saw this. The community feedback of Chucky. You could see my theme is horror throughout the whole episode. Yes, absolutely. Yes. So when I first saw this, I thought, okay, Reckoner, I'm not really sure what this means. But then I thought maybe because this is a, it's an application real quick about personal finances and then keeping track of things. And I thought maybe they meant the Southern phrase of I

reckon. Yeah. And I think you're right. Maybe that's what it's really, I don't know. I wouldn't even have thought about that, but you're from Alabama. And so you would know Southern Phrases, you know? I am from Alabama. And yes, I do know Southern Phrases because of this. But that has nothing to do with anything. Also. You're trying to like kind of throw me some shade about being from the South. You are in Texas right now. Yeah. Well. Texas is like the epitome of the South. Your family tree is j

ust a tree, like without any branches. Okay. So here's... Alabama, that's the thing. So I get what you're trying to say, Ryan, but here's the thing. You live in the place that people think of as Southern. You live in the state of Texas. Now, if you go to anywhere and you speak in a Southern accent, everyone else on the planet asks you, are you from Texas? That's how Southern where you are is. So you can't throw any shade on me. I have no amnesty here. All right. Should we talk about Reckoner? It

's Reckon. Yes. Well. I reckon we should there, buddy. Well, Reckon actually means... I reckon we should there. My buddy. My buddy doll. Yeah, Michael's right. And Reckon actually means to recall. Like here in California, we'd say to recall... That phrase. Oh, interesting. The Recaller. Yeah. We're going to give them another, like a code name for this application, the Recalliner. Yeah, Recalliner. So tracking your personal finances is not actually on most people's top 10 lists of favorite things

to do. This is great. It's the best, absolute best thing to do. Spreadsheets are awesome. They're awesome, yes. Yes. So, however, as the economy tightens, it is a good idea to get a grasp on where your money's going. There are many cloud options available, but they can sell your data and ruin your privacy, which is why our app pick this week is Reckoner. Reckoner is an encrypted local personal finance tracker that's easy to use and better than a simple spreadsheet. How could you say that? I kno

w Michael would- How could you say that? I would disagree with that because spreadsheets can be very complex. They don't have to be simple. They can be. Not everybody is as advanced as you in spreadsheets, Michael. Yeah. Not everybody can be. I get it. I get it. I also checked out this application. It does look pretty cool and it has a lot of cool features, so it might be. It's very nice. And with Reckoner, you can start seeing where your money is going. And that's just awesome, being able to tr

ack your expenses. Also, whether you use Reckoner or something else, let us know what personal finance app you use and we might share it with the awesome community of Destination Linux. Definitely. And also, just real quick, the Reckoner application has a lot of cool stuff. You can set up organizations. You can set up individual stuff. You can track all sorts. It's got reports and it's got nice dashboards of telling you at a glance where your money's going. It can tell you different categories.

It's pretty cool. it's a lot of cool stuff I did when I searched for it I couldn't find how you would get the transactions in so maybe it has importing I couldn't find if it did hopefully if it doesn't then it, absolutely should because importing it just makes it a lot easier but it still looks like a really good application. Well i added all of my finances to this to see what it would spit out to see where my money's going because you know it's a big problem and it just it's spit out two words

it said your wife your money's going to your wife where. Your money's going. Ryan well what's. Also Also nice is Reckoner is available as a convenient flat pack on flathub.org, as a snap at snapcraft.io, or as a downloaded app image from their codeberg.org site. And it's also available as a web-based application, which I found really cool. That's how I went and played with it. And it's also available as an Android APK. So just cherish the Reckoner. I also went on their website and it's multi-pla

tform and I saw it said it works on Android and Linux and soon on our roadmap is Windows and Mac OS. Yes. I like that. Yeah. That's pretty cool. I'm loving it. So another thing you're going to be loving is the tip of the week. And if you're using Firefox, this is something for you. So it's still our favorite browser, by the way. I use it as my daily driver. So our tip of the week is related to Firefox users. And this week, we want to highlight the ability that is built into Firefox thanks to the

Firefox Sync system, where you can send tabs to your other computers using the same sync account. So if you're on a mobile device or if you're on your desktop, you can do this and it works differently depending on what you're doing. But if you're on your desktop and you want to be able to take it on your phone and leave and go somewhere, you can just right-click the tab and say send to device and choose which device you want to send it to. And then boom, you got it on whatever device you chose.

It's so cool. It's similar in the way you can do it on the phone as well. And it just makes it super easy to do. basically continue what you wanted to do. Like, for example, I needed to work on the show notes for my phone, and this made it a lot easier to do that. So if you are a Firefox user, check it out. And we have some exciting news to share with you, not just the tip and trick, but where you can come hang out with Michael, me, and Jill. I like how you've said this is some exciting news ev

ery week, and it's the same thing about us. Shut up. It's still exciting. It is exciting every week. I'm excited. I get to see Jill in person. It is exciting. That's true. You get to see Jill and that's all that matters. That's all that matters. Yeah. 2024, March 14th through the 17th, 2024, Pasadena Convention Center in Pasadena, California. We will be there. We will be there. Come hang out with the DL crew plus all the amazing vendors, presenters, and open source enthusiasts. It happens every

year and Jill will be there. And I mentioned Jill's going to be there. Jill's there. Especially Jill. Especially Jill. Jill will be there. Have you noticed people putting especially Jill Jill just said it's so good. I love it. I love it. It's amazing. It's also like, I love you. Your show guys, especially Jill. Perfect. It's now like, it's now perfectly tied to our show. Every time you see it, you know what it means. I bet you someone shouts at us when me and you were walking around scale. Micha

el will be like, especially Jill. You know. Almost guaranteed, almost guaranteed. Oh, but now that you said it guaranteed. Yeah. One of the reasons scale is so important to me, besides I've been going to it from the very beginning. Is getting to be with you, Michael and Ryan. To me, it's our special place together. We have the booth and we get to interview people. And we get to go out to dinner together and just have fun together as friends. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that, too. We get to have

fun together as friends. I mean, me and Jill specifically, Ryan, whatever. It's okay. I exposed my feelings about the Chucky doll and all that. I expose myself on this show. You can talk about how important I am. You should not talk about exposing yourself on the show, bro. Oh, that's the wrong show. That's my late night show I do later. So I'll talk about my childhood fears next time in the next episode. All right. Can't wait to hear that. Yeah. Well. You're going to have to wait until next ep

isode for that. But a big thank you to each and every one of you for supporting us by watching or listening to Destination Linux, however you do it. Love your faces. And did you know we record live for our patrons every single Thursday at 6 p.m. Central Time? And Michael will tell you what that is in other time zones. I. Will tell you right now, 7 p.m. Eastern. 4 p.m. Pacific. Yes, 4 p.m. I got it. I was right. And also, if you are in India, that is 5.30 p.m. I don't know how you know that, but

that's really impressive. Impressive. Thank you. And if you're in Europe, it is in, sorry, sorry. I don't know what time it is. I don't know what it is, but also, I mean, it's like three in the morning, so you're probably asleep and I'm just preemptively say sorry. You can also join us on Discord. It's midnight in Great Britain. Okay. There you go. You can join us on Discord. tuxdigital.com/discord tuxdigital.com/discord Anytime you want. Anytime you want. You can join the Discord. And if you be

come a patron, you can join the patron only section of our Discord as well. Yep, there you go. And you can do all sorts of other stuff because we have tons of perks in our patron system. So go to tuxdigital.com/membership to sign up. And if you'd like to help the show out, get some swag, you can go to tuxdigital.com/store and pick up some t-shirts or hoodies or mugs or stickers or so much more. There's tons of cool stuff, including the things that like Jill's wearing this great shirt and there's

this thing that ryan is showing in the video that is absolutely not on the cord. Holder and it's not in. The store but it's not in the store at all i don't know i don't even know what one of those. It's a mouse budgie yes i. Don't even know what that was at all and when you described it i'm also thinking like why yeah. Speaking of which do you guys know we have a video version of the show so if you wonder what i have here then you need to watch the video. Version now on youtube if you want to k

now what this weird thing i don't even he's told us what it does i I don't agree with it. Hold your mouse cord up so that it's not dangling down on your desk. For perfect gaming momentum. It's better for gaming. Thank you, Jill. Yes. Keeps your cord out of your way when you're moving quick to get those kills. Yes. Okay. Apparently. And make sure to check out all the cool shows here on Texas Soul. That's right. We have an entire amazing network of shows to fill your entire week with geeky goodnes

s. Check out the DOS Geek channel with our very own Ryan, who reviews awesome tech, discusses ways to keep your privacy intact online, and geeks out on all things open source and Linux. Go check him out. Yeah. You should do a review on your cord thing. Yeah. Whatever. Also. Real quick, I just realized I said 5.30 p.m. in India. It's 5.30 a.m. in India. Oh. Okay. A bit different. So I got that wrong. Too. I got that wrong anyway. That's okay, Michael. You recorrected yourself. So that's good. Oka

y, good. We're fine. We're fine. So everyone also head to tuxdigital.com and subscribe to all our great shows. And don't forget to leave a rating on your favorite app so others can discover the awesome power of open source and keep those penguins marching in the full Monty of Linux and open source awesome sauce. and everybody have a great week and remember that the journey itself is just as important as the destination. Jill killed it. Man. Jill just killed the hosting this week. Don't you think

? She killed it. She did such a good job. But also, speaking of the destination that we're going to scale, this is exciting news. We're going to scale. Oh, that's exciting, Michael. Some more exciting news is that we're actually having the organizers of scale joining us on the next episode of Destination Linux. So you don't want to miss it. We must be somebody. Yes, absolutely. We get to talk to Elon again, and we get to have Hannah on, too. I can't believe anyone will talk to us. You're a wheel

chair person. I know, especially after this episode. I can't believe people talk to us because we're always covering the power of the insecure and dangerous open source software. Uniquely dangerous, in fact. Uniquely dangerous open source software. It's so scary. I think we're going to, in order to make sure that they're comfortable in being on the show, we're going to have to put some safety glass around. Me? Yeah. That's a good idea. Yeah. See you next week, everybody. Bye, everyone. Love you

all. Most of you.