मनका कुरा | With Basant Chaudhary | EP-09 | Rukshana Kapali |

Rukshana: You can hear a lot of imaginary and made-up stuff in society rather than things that have a basis in reality. Comments like, “Why are you showing girl-like behavior even though you are a boy?” I heard many things like, “Someday you’ll go to India and beg money by clapping and singing on trains”. The court has become a medium to make our voices strong. Basant: Hello and Namaste, dear viewers. Welcome to another episode of Mann Ka Kura with Basant Chaudhary. Our guest today is a diligent

and dedicated activist. A social activist. She is a transgender woman who has been working hard for the rights of the Jugi community. She is proficient in a variety of languages. Along with the preservation of Newa Bhasa and Culture, she has been fighting for the rights of the LGBTQIA+ community. Not only that, she has been included among the 100 most influential women of 2023 by the BBC as a shelter rights protector and a transgender activist. She has been raising her voice against discriminat

ion since the age of 15. She has proved herself to be a woman through the verdict of the Supreme Court. Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce you to the most dynamic, Rukshana Kapali. Welcome Rukshana Ji. Rukshana: Thank You. Basant: You look beautiful in this traditional dress. Rukshana: Thank You. Basant: Rukshana, as a human being, how would you introduce yourself? Rukshana: You have mentioned a lot of things already. My name is Rukshana Kapali. I am currently studying Law. Right now,

I have been working on two issues. Namely, the LGBTQIA+ rights and the rights of the Jugi community. Basant: Nice. Like I said in the introduction, you have been listed among BBC’s 100 Most Influential Women for 2023. We all are very proud. Can you please share the story behind this success in brief? Rukshana: As you said earlier, I have been raising my voice against discrimination since the age of fifteen. I never planned or dreamed of being an activist from the start. What happened was that so

ciety and the state created difficult situations for me. When these situations arose, I just had two options. One was to stay quiet and let it happen. The other was to fight against it. I chose to fight against it. Once I made up my mind about changing my situation by fighting against it, I got into activism. Nearly a decade has passed since that time. Basant: How difficult was the journey? Rukshana: It was not easy. Labeling a situation as difficult or easy is based on one’s perspective. It was

not easy for me. But I feel happy that I have come this far. Basant: Did you receive the support of everyone? Rukshana: I wouldn’t say that. There were a lot of situations where I didn’t receive support from people. Those experiences did shake me. But slowly, through fearlessness, I managed to overcome that as well. Basant: You chose to campaign for two causes when you started working as a social activist. One was related to the residency and shelter of Jugi community. Another was related to th

e hardships that transgender people have to face. But why does the latter get most of the attention? What do you think are the psychological reasons behind that? Rukshana: The thing is, my association with the Jugi’s cause has not been very long. It has only been a year. I joined the cause due to the ignorance of our generation. I come from a generation that is a bit removed from their culture and history. I was the same. A lot of people might say that I am closer to my roots than most. But I fe

el that there is a distance between my generation and our roots. Until a year ago, I had no idea about my community’s history. That is such a travesty. I knew that we belonged to the Newar community. I knew that Kapali, Kusle, and Darshandhaari were three castes that belonged to a different community inside the grander Newar community. However, I had no idea about our history and culture. We used to live in a ‘Satal’ which was situated in Lalitpur Metropolitan City’s Ward No. 16. My ignorance ha

d led me to believe that my grandparents were misled by the Surveyors due to their illiteracy. However, since last year I filed a case about my house in the Supreme Court. When I started studying and researching about my family’s state and why we lived in a Satal, I began finding out about my community’s history and the reasons behind the current state. Then I started raising my voice about it. That is why it has not garnered much attention. Basant: Have you understood the cultural importance of

the Jugi community now? It’s history. The importance of Jugi people in Jatras and festivals. Have you understood all that? Rukshana: Yes. I slowly started to understand all these things. Basant: You emerged victorious after a battle of great importance against the law of our nation. You succeeded. What challenges did you face when you were fighting that battle? Rukshana: The Supreme Court recently announced its verdict. It was announced on the 20th of Kartik, 2080. I filed the case in 2077. A d

ecade ago, the media wasn’t as pervasive as now. Social media was not around like it is today. Means of information were very few. Even in the media, there were no mentions of the existence of transgender people. They weren’t mentioned in our textbooks. I didn’t have any source or medium that gave me information related to the feelings that I had. First of all, I had to educate myself. Because I am a product of this society as well. As a result of this, I held the same belief that society had ab

out people like me. It took a long time for me to internalize and understand myself. After I had accepted myself, it took a long time for society to accept me. The journey wasn’t simple. It was very difficult. Acceptance from society is one thing but I had to fight for acceptance from the state. The recent verdict was my victory in the battle against the state. Basant: You won the battle against the state to some extent. Don’t you feel that the war against society is still going on? Rukshana: Ye

s. That battle is still not over. It is a continuous process. I don’t know when it will end. Basant: You realized that you were a little different from other human beings at the age of 15. Did you face any social or physical or social abuse after that? Rukshana: The thing is, you never feel that you are different within you. You are different according to the society, isn’t it? For you, you are the same you. People question me many times. They ask, “When did you change?”. But it never changed fo

r me. I was always this way. Basant: That’s ignorance. Rukshana: Even from a very young age, I have always seen myself as a girl, as a woman. Society told me that I am this. I would disagree. That conflict has always been there. Thinking back on it, when I reached grades 5-6 and entered my adolescent phase, I started facing a lot of demeaning comments like, “Why are you behaving like a girl even though you are a boy?” Nowadays, I don't pay much attention to these comments. But when you are a s

mall kid, you have a small circle and those things affect you. I don’t know how much social media has changed the present generation. But our generation did not have social media meaning that the people you knew in real life were the only people in your circle. I heard all these comments everywhere I went. I lived a very frustrated life due to that. Basant: There have been changes now. Society has become more open and liberal. In this scenario, which segment of society do you feel is more accept

ing towards you? Rukshana: I don’t think I can exactly pinpoint the demographic that is accepting. I am not saying this based on thorough research. I am just sharing my experiences. Talking from experience, we have a bias that makes us feel that our contemporaries are more accepting of us. That is not entirely true. People from my generation can be very ignorant. When we say that the perspectives will automatically change with time, that is not necessarily what happens. That can be seen in our g

eneration as well. We feel that the people of the senior generation might not be liberal and open enough to accept us. But that isn't the case either. They might understand it differently. My grandmother understood it as the change in the ‘god of Karma’. That is fine for a person for her age. One generation is not necessarily more understanding than the other. Basant: You said that the youth are not more accepting than others. What do you think, is it ignorance or hypocrisy? Rukshana: It might b

e ignorance for the majority, they act like they never heard about it, like it’s a new ideology for them. It was never a new ideology. People just don’t notice it but there are several of transgender people around them. Maybe because of their ignorance, transgender didn’t want to open up to them. After I opened up with my family, many older generation people talked about transgender being in their times. They started opening up. There can be a difference in thoughts between their generation and

ours. The thoughts might have evolved now. Basant: It’s a different interpretation. Rukshana: Interpretation might be different. Some might interpret through the lens of religion, some might do it through the lens of secularity or some might see it through in a normalized sense. But there is a sense of ignorance in our generation. Basant: What are the differences you find between rural and urban communities? Which community is easy to deal with? Rukshana: I can’t distinguish between the two comm

unities in terms of complications in dealing. Of course there is an urban and rural divide in terms of thoughts and resources. But the main thing is, be it urban or rural, people need to start accepting this reality through awareness. It's about acceptance rather than an urban/rural divide. This problem is not going to block the acceptance. The main thing is people need to accept this in their conscience. Basant: Do you like it if somebody shows sympathy for you? That you are a transgender. How

do you react to that? Rukshana: It depends. In terms of, if it is a senior person, I’ll understand that they do not understand. Same thing with children. But why do we even need to give sympathy? People shouldn’t see it that way. Basant: We all are God’s creation. Everyone isn’t built in the same way. But I really admire your courage. I’m talking to Rukshana. She is a very interesting person and with this, we’ll take a short break. Don’t go away. We’ll be right back. Basant: Welcome back, dear v

iewers. How did you feel when you discovered your reality as a transgender? Rukshana: Initially, I felt so bad. It’s a strange thing when I say this now. Looking back, I felt bad initially. I was like, “It’s this possible? How did I become like this?” It’s also because of the kind of society I was brought up in that presented a thought that transgenders do not have any future, they can’t make a living and other taboos that linger in our society. I am also the product of this society so I felt si

milarly. I felt that it was bad. And the hardest part is to convince oneself. Basant: Even to this day, How relevant is the consideration of being transgender as a social crime and the perception of it being as a social curse? We often see that people with broad thinking open up with their families and they accept their reality as a transgender. They accept that their son or daughter is different. They have even acknowledged it in the media. But, still a large chunk of people do not accept that

easily which we see through comments on social media. Even from the literate diaspora. What do you think is accurate recognition that you need to provide as transgender so these people can accept this reality easily? Rukshana: I think our society is usually operated on small gossip. One gossip leads to another theory which leads to another false revelation. People easily accept entertaining theories rather than searching for the truth. These theories will decrease if there is a prime example in

the society. In my case, many people told me that I don’t have any future. They predicted that I will go to India and dance on the train to make a living. I used to hear all those theories. After 10 years, none of those predictions came true. The ridiculous theories and stories in society will slowly get decreased through the right actions by transgender. That delusion will slowly get torn apart. And if transgenders from different communities start opening up, it will be rightfully accepted whic

h is a basic human right when you think about it. It doesn’t need reminding and teaching. It’s a very basic thought. To be in a situation where you have to prove your worth in existence is itself a peculiar thought. But if a transgender person opens up with that approach, then it will create a positive impact on society. Basant: Is there any organization of yours that is helping to make people aware about transgenders? Or are you fighting your battle alone? Rukshana: In 2018, we have formed a gr

oup called “Queer Youth Group”. We formed it with a loose network with few individuals in the beginning. We were in our late teens so we created the group with full passion. And during COVID, in 2020, we were officially granted as an organization. Also, there are problems everywhere. It’s not possible for a small organization to maintain awareness everywhere. In that context, we tried to grab onto two things. First we will manufacture goods and products and secondly we fight for our rights legal

ly. By manufacturing goods, we are representing our voices through education and audiovisual mediums. Basant: Okay. So, goods means educational materials. Rukshana: Educational materials, exactly. Those aren’t readily available everywhere. There is a difference in perspective when LGBTQ members write about themselves or someone else writes about them. That’s why we promote that we should write about ourselves. In terms of our reach, we are trying to focus on handicapped people, people who can’t

read and write. We are trying to find a way on how we will spread awareness through different cultures. We are publishing books in Nepali and submitting them to different government authorities. We are providing these facilities online too. We are trying to cater to different languages. Even for handicapped people, we are using the medium of nepali folk music, audiobooks for illiterate people. With that, we are trying to provide goods and services for the welfare of these people. Basant: This ba

ttle you are fighting is a battle for justice or battle for a change in society? Rukshana: Both, really. Because, a change is necessary in a society. If a society can’t accept this reality in a superficial way, then there will be problems and ignorance in many places. The sensitive place is especially convincing to your family. In the context of Nepal, if your own family doesn’t accept you, then it gets really difficult. Imagine, at the age of 13-14, I opened up to my family and they threw me ou

t of the house. A lot of people have gone through that. I wonder where I would end up? I wouldn’t have anything. No education and certificates, no skills, where would I end up? Or what would I have done? I have witnessed that a lot of families of my transgender friends have discarded them for being that way, even to this day. For me, an outsider from the society can disgust me or say horrible things about me but if you have the support from your parents and family, the person feels strong. Basa

nt: Family support. Rukshana: Family support is very important in the context of Nepal. In abroad, you move out after the age of 18. You make your own income. Basant: You fight your own battle. Rukshana: Yes. It’s different abroad. In the context of Nepal, many people have strongly opened up because of the support from their families. I can see that from my own experience. I found a massive difference between the time I did and didn’t have my family support. So, the parents should be brave enoug

h to stand up for their child, for the welfare of the family. The assurance of “I AM HERE.” Any child can persevere if they get that assurance. Basant: Do you have that assurance from your family? Rukshana: Yes, I have been getting it. Basant: I must thank them. There have been requests that “There needs to be employment, education and health for transgenders in this country, a different facilitation should be implemented in Nepal’s law system. How are you spreading your voices and contributing

in this sector? Rukshana: In recent times, court has been the biggest stage for us to voice our opinions. I don’t know if it’s an irony or an opportunity. Parliament is supposed to create the law. The implementation passes through them. Government are supposed to make the rules and regulations. In our case, they didn’t proceed with the law until the court supported us. They didn’t even do a small thing until the court interfered. This kind of practice is very much relevant. The thing that hurt u

s the government corporation didn’t want to focus on us. Even on small things. I’ve complained about correcting citizenship but not correcting education certificates at the District Administrative Office. Complaints like this. Just basic things. We have requested that if they feel new about this, let’s have a discussion, a conversation, there are efficient individuals in our community. We will argue about what we believe in. And if it’s a new situation, let’s find new rules and regulations to so

lve it. But those ideas were never initiated by any government corporation. Basant: As a civil lawyer, you have been fighting legal battles for your community. Not just for yourself but other victims too. Congratulations to you. Among the transgenders, are there the same thoughts and perspectives in the same direction regarding this fight? Rukshana: There is a difference in opinions in every sector. Be it about tribal issues, rights for women or rights for Dalit. There is a difference in opinion

s everywhere. There is a difference in how people approach work. In my case, I feel it is impactful to fight in the court. Some people might feel appropriate to meet and talk with the Parliament officials. That might be impactful for others. People have different thoughts and approaches in this matter. It is prevalent in every sector and in our sector. The basic problems that we face for being a transgender are already there. And the approach for the changes that we are hoping for might be execu

ted from different directions. But, in all of us, the singular goal and wish is to end the undeserved exploitation against us. Basant: So, the goal is common? Rukshana: Yes. Basant: Let’s talk about your family a little bit. I heard that your parents didn’t want you to speak Newari language. Why? It’s such a sweet language. Rukshana: Definitely. This particular thought has been prevalent for a long time. My parents used to talk in Newari language with each other but used to talk in Nepali with u

s children. I think that norm is still relevant today. And the reason for that is they worry that we might inherit the Newari tone. It might be hard to understand English. Basant: That accent… Rukshana: They didn’t converse with me in Newari because of the accent, that I might get behind in the real world, and other stupid reasons. The concept of “You need to learn Nepali language for a government job and English language for going abroad” led to the practice not teaching the cultural language

to childrens. But I was lucky in a sense that I could hear and understand my parents. Some say that they understand the Newari language but can’t converse. Basant: A lot of them. Rukshana: But because I lived with both my grandparents. My grandmother doesn’t speak Nepali. She didn’t have any option but to speak in her language. And a lot of my family doesn’t understand Nepali language. It wasn’t a necessity for them at their time to learn the language. So, there were a lot who spoke Newari langu

age. That’s why I got the chance to speak. That’s how I learnt. And later on, in my childhood, I was extremely curious about everything. In the New Year, I used to wonder why there are banners of “Nu Daya Vintuna”. I thought that I had never seen these words before, not even taught in school, which language is this? It was Ranjana Lipi. But people back then didn’t know the importance of one’s own cultural language. I was in shock to discover that those words were from my own language. I used to

wonder a childish thought of “Could we write in our own language?” And, slowly I discovered about Lipi classes and consulting with others. That’s how I learnt Ranjana Lipi & Nepal Lipi. Basant: Oh! How nice! Out of 11 languages you know, how many languages do you excel in writing? Rukshana: I learn writing simultaneously with other languages. Basant: So, all 11 languages? Rukshana: Yes. A little bit of all languages. Basant: Hats off to you. What inspired you? To learn all these multiple languag

es? Rukshana: I have had a love and admiration for languages since my childhood. And I always had the habit of listening to the languages I didn’t understand. I was enthusiastic about what these people were conversing about? That’s how it started. Slowly I discovered a place called Science of Language. I started writing the languages I know. The more knowledge you have about languages, your perspective on the world changes accordingly. Basant: A change in outlook. Rukshana: I realized the perspe

ctive widens. That’s the reason I learned multiple languages. It’s not like I’m completely fluent in all those 11 languages. I’m still in a basic stage in a lot of languages. I have to work and manage learning languages in my free time so the learning isn’t going smoothly. Basant: Which is the sweetest language? Rukshana: All the languages are sweet. All the languages in the world are beautiful and incredible to me. Basant: You usually write on Ranjana Lipi on your social media. Rukshana: Yes. B

asant: Is there any specific reason for that? Rukshana: Firstly, it's my own language. Everyone loves their native language. There is a special relation to it. Other languages are there. We learn it for some interests and experiences but native language feels like a part of one’s self-identity This is related to my past and my future. That’s why there is a personal affection towards one's own language. Basant: It needs to be beautiful either way. Rukshana: Yes. Basant: I find Newari language ver

y beautiful. Rukshana: Yeah. It is. Basant: It’s so beautiful and delicate. I discovered a long list of your well wishers on social media. Some of those followers would like to talk to you online. Would you like to receive their call? Rukshana: Yes. Of course. Basant: Namaste. Guest: Hello. Namaste. Basant: Would you like to introduce yourself? Guest: Yes. My name is Amita Sharma. I am a 20 year old lawyer working in Birgunj's high court. Basant: Amita Jii, Rukshana is sitting in front of you. S

hare what you want to ask her. Amita: Okay. My question is since a long time, you have been working for the welfare of intersex and LGBTQ communities doing campaign and activism. It was a long struggle for you. You are also a student of law. From your understanding and experience, what are the major challenges that these intersex and LGBTQ communities are facing in the current scenario? And what are the important solutions, steps and rules that need to be implemented to stop this? Rukshana: Than

k you so much for the question. One legal challenge that these LGBTIQ+ communities are facing is the request to let them follow and apply the same rules and regulations as other citizens and solving technical difficulties. Lagging small works for small and tiny issues is very much prevalent. For example, the approval of citizenship. The article 12 in the constitution presents that Citizenship Aid has already been founded, already been scripted in its Act 8A. There is an official in the Supreme c

ourt, so many cases have been fought in the High court. The government should look upon these things. Like in Susaashan Aid says that if the rules aren’t specified legally, there is a facility regarding taking appropriate actions. If all those things are assembled then we will have the right framework to solve specific problems through listed rulebook or techniques. These things can be easily executed by the government but they don’t wish to do it. Every single problem needs to be supported by t

he court. It’s been the biggest barrier for us. And there are a lot of flaws in laws when we keep dissecting it. And in today’s time, nothing gets executed until the court interferes. That’s been a major problem. Amita: Thank you, Rukshana Ji. Basant: Thank you for the question. Rukshana: Thank you to you too and there is a small case in Birgunj as well. We might get to meet each other. Amita: Sure. Basant: There might be a lot of issues in the case of property rights. Rukshana: There are simila

r problems in every sector. Basant: A blank aid isn’t possible without the passing of the law. Rukshana: Exactly. Basant: Because that supersedes the existing laws. Because every law shouldn’t be restricted because of minute issues. Amendment isn’t possible for every law. It’s a long process. One blank aid law is indeed… Rukshana: Honestly, for a nation, it isn’t entirely impossible. Basant: Namaste. Guest: Hi. Namaste. Basant: Can you introduce yourself? Guest: Yes. Namaste everyone. My name is

Diya Yonzon. I am a writer and researcher. Basant: Rukshana is all here for you. Diya: Okay. Thank you so much. Hi Rukshana. Rukshana: Hi Diya: So, firstly, I wanted to congratulate you again for being listed BBC’s 100th women for 2023. So my question is very much related to it. I wanted to ask if there has been any positive change because of that, if any. And the question related to that is how do you see yourself moving forward now. I know you have received accolades and recognitions before b

ut with this specific recognition, how do you plan to move forward with your advocacy in Nepal? Rukshana: Thank you so much. Once I got this recognition from the BBC, the information got spreaded across the masses. From all the networking mediums and social media too. It helped in spreading my message across different diaspora which helped more friends in contacting me. Many people have opened up to me about their own personal problems asking for advice. I sometimes see my message requests. It g

ets rapidly active if I don’t check it for a couple of days. Firstly, it was an opportunity to get known among many people, the work I was doing found its platform. People were aware about the work I do. For people who think they have a problem and aren’t sure about how to deal with it could directly consult with me. Secondly, what is my future plan? Now I want to complete my law education. I will receive my lawyer’s license. And I will continue my fight for justice. Now I am only voicing my opi

nions. As a licensed lawyer, I want to take this case forward in an impactful way with more studies and research. That’s what I want. Basant: You talked about specializing after becoming a lawyer. Would you like to specialize in LGBTQI+ issues or others? Rukshana: Yes. I have thought about focusing myself on that particular subject academically. Through different mediums, I have discovered that foreign universities have created academic curriculum on trangender studies & LGBTI studies. Basant:

They have created? Oh wow. Rukshana: Yes. And through that I also have experience in working in Nepal. Fortunately, I learned multiple languages. It will help me to learn about the laws of other nations. Basant: It will help. Obviously. Rukshana: What are the legal situations around the world? The answers to these questions will help to enrich and implement my legal practice in Nepal. I am focusing on how I can build a strong foundation for my law career. Basant: Ladies and gentlemen, we will t

ake a short break and we will be back soon. Basant: Welcome back. You have studied about the “jugi” community and their legendary background. Their incredible role in Jatras and parvas have been discussed. But your current battle is focused on the right to foods and services. But since more than 50 years, 100 years or during the periods of Ranas, the pujas and cultural ceremonies are slowly getting extinct and erased in Nepal. The meaning of that extinction and erasement means the involvement of

the “jugi” community in the society getting extinct. How much have you studied about that situation? What are your views around that? Rukshana: My studies around the “jugi” community is very recent and very few. My information around that subject might be limited. And in terms of my studies, I remember in the beginning because I write Nepali dates. It was 1143 NS silla 7. That application was very articulate. I wrote that application a year ago after researching with the people around regarding

our community. And later on, I kept writing on. And my applications have been accepted now in Bhoomi Madralaya, Human Rights Commission, Tribal commission and even in Language commission. And looking at the situation right now, it might be kimbadante. There are different forms of kimbadante. The major history might differ along the stories we have heard it from. Stories from Kathmandu, Bhaktapur might be different. According to kimbadante, in case of massive outbreak of disease or mass hysteria

in the capital, there is an instrument called mauli originated from Gujrat, India. It is spelled differently in other regions. And we were called upon here to play that instrument. There is a community called “jugi” in South Asia. And inside this community, there are sub groups of Nath Sampradaya & Kanpatha Jogi. And when this community appears in the capital, playing that instrument might help in curing these diseases and there are other theories of rain appearing during the performance of tha

t instrument. Or there is a power to attract the Lords by playing that instrument. There are kimbadantes like these. And when they tried to return, our kings requested them to stay over. They replied by saying that they were jugis, we live a free life by sacrificing everything. We can’t live in a structured place. So, the way balanced this approach was to not stay on a proper shelter of some kind and also not stay on the community junction of any kind. So, our foundation is still hard to represe

nt in terms of judiciary and laws. Community junctions are usually one storey, people aren’t supposed to live there. Basant: It is possible to live in Satal. Rukshana: It is because it is different from community junctions. So, staying in those kinds of ancient architectures and learning about the histories of the Lichchhavi period, the origins of Kastamaandap. It is a written history that our ancestors have lived there for more than 800 years. It is even sculpted on the walls there. It is near

Chardo street because people won’t be aware of it if it’s inside. So, this community must be represented on the forefront on Shatal near Chardo street or because of the music played for the attraction of the lords, a Satal near the temple is necessary. It is written on the pages of history. Basant: It was around 2057/58 B.S. I provided my services in Pashupati Area for 5 years. An incredible example of this “Jugi” community is visible in that temple. Even to this day, during the important ceremo

nies in the temple, during the Mahavog or Mahasnan inside Pashupati, Jugi plays musical instruments even to this day. The appropriate example is represented in Pashupati. We can even find the references on the right management of the Satal. Coming to LGBTI+, the present constitutional state isn’t as friendly to the sensitive situation of this community. But, you have opened a way for yourself in a legal manner. What are the challenges in discovering that way? Do you have any memories of it? Ruks

hana: In the beginning, when I started this battle, I didn’t have a thought of joining or studying law in my mind. I was only fond of languages. I went to Tribhuvan University to study the School of Language. Tribhuvan University blocked my path with the reason that no transgender has ever been admitted. The case was new for them. To sort out that problem, I visited different committees and different government offices. Personally, it was challenging for me to keep migrating. First time, when I

submitted my complaint which was written by myself and I don’t even remember how I wrote it. Because I hadn’t started studying law at that time. Basant: Really? Rukshana: I hadn’t even entered the law sector. I took a reference from the format of previous complaints that was submitted. I still feel strange on how I wrote it and feel embarrassed while reading it like what was my thought process back then? And during those times, explaining the case to the lawyers took a bit of time because it was

a new subject with a lot of sensitivity. I demanded an interim time which wasn’t granted. It took months to grant an interim time. They didn’t find a way to check it and it was always postponed. It was challenging in that situation. We realized it will be resolved in the final hearing. Even in the final hearing, they weren’t able to check it. And if that happens, you won’t get a date before six months. There used to be an internal frustration when things used to get postponed but you have to tr

y to handle your heart and finally on 20th of Karthik of last year, the decision was announced for us. A writ was granted to us. The decision is still in the writing process but is presented in the website of the Supreme court as “Writ Granted”. The decision is currently being written and once it's done… Basant: Najir will be announced. Rukshana: It will be easier for everyone if a Najir is announced. Basant: Do you think that this decision will get implemented, despite it being in its unresolve

d state? Rukshana: The positive part of it being a court’s decision is that it will never end until it gets implemented. Because there will be further charges and punishments if it doesn’t get implemented. Also, in terms of implementation, I took my case to the Supreme court, not other ones. If it was someone else’s, it would have been stuck there for 5 years. That’s another problem so I took other cases to the high court. The decisions are made quite quickly there. Usually, the maximum time it

took for a case was six months. For me, that is quite fast. In the process of implementation, there are still issues created using minute words even to this day. But some organizations solve it without any issues. But this also depends on one’s wishes and aptitudes… Basant: It also depends on the person to some extent. Rukshana: It does. Basant: Rukshana Ji, We have collected your old pictures for our segment called Samjhana Mann Ka (Memories of the Heart). Let me present them to you. Please sha

re your memories with us. Rukshana: Hahahaha… I was 3-4 years old in this. This was clicked in our Satal house. It was an obsession or something. I don’t know but our house always had this green color. They always painted our walls green. And I was like this. Basant: But you were stylish! In your childhood. Rukshana: That I was. I used to love wearing clips on my hair in my childhood. Basant: Even your goggles. Rukshana: Yes. I was influenced by Falguni Pathak's songs. I used to watch a lot of

Falguni Pathak’s videos. I used to enjoy the remixed versions of songs like ‘Kaliyo Ka Chaman’. Here, I registered a case in Janakpur for two people for me. Basant: You look different here. Rukshana: Probably. This was when I filed my case in the Supreme Court. It was during COVID. Everybody was wearing masks. I wanted to dress well. So, I wore a saree and I had my files there. So this was clicked before going in to file the case. This was when I was in Madhesh. Basant: In Haku Patasi. Rukshana

: This was a long time ago. It was probably during 2018. There was an event in Simrangadh. We went on an excursion. This is a very old photo. Ohh! This is from the pride parade. This is probably the fourth one. We started the pride parade in 2019. We decided to celebrate the pride in June. It wasn’t possible to gather physically in 2020 and 2021. This was the second physical parade. My dad made the dress for me. Basant: Do the colors in the skirt, the umbrella, and the banner mean something? Ruk

shana: Yes. It does have meaning. The skirt that I am wearing has what we call a “Rainbow Flag”. It symbolizes the diversity and the LGBTQIAP++ community. The flag above is what's called a Transgender Pride flag. It represents the transgender community. Basant: It's so nice. Really. Rukshana: I wanted to be ‘dressy’. Basant: When is the third pride parade happening? Rukshna: We do the pride parade on the second Saturday of June. Basant: And how is the response? Rukshana: A lot of people gather

in June. In this parade, a lot of the people had come out for the first time in a long time. Here, I am looking at the back. And it was a huge crowd. I felt very happy to see that. Basant: So nice. We all are human beings. Some things do cause us suffering. How do you rid yourself of suffering when you feel that way? Rukshana: Whenever I am feeling sad or stressed or I am in trouble, I love eating. I love to eat. I love to go somewhere nice and treat myself to the food I am craving. Sometimes I

crave something sweet. Sometimes I crave Korean food. Whenever I feel very stressed, I go out to eat. Basant: Do you meditate? Rukshana: No, I don’t. Basant: The kind of fight that you are doing, not just for yourself but for others as well, it is natural to feel stressed. Just like physical wellness, mental wellness is also very important. Our brains seek exercise as well. I think the best way is to make your heart strong. You fight so hard for others. Who fights for you? Rukshana: Who fights

for me? Ummm… When you asked this, the first one that I thought of was my lawyer. My lawyer fought for me. Basant: I didn’t mean the legal battle. Rukshana: My lawyer’s name popped in my head. The one who fought the legal battle for me. Basant: You earned fame along with your identity. What do you think is left for you to achieve in your life? Rukshana: There is a lot left to do. There are a lot more things left. I want to learn more languages. I want to become a lawyer professionally. Academi

cally, I want to do my PhD. I had a dream to complete my PhD since I was a small child. I want to do that. There is a lot left to do. But we don’t know where the time will direct us. What situations it may create. These doubts are all there. But there is a lot left to do. Basant: I feel happy listening to you say this. I hope all your wishes are fulfilled. I hope you will emerge victorious in the battle that you are fighting. These are my best wishes to you. And I thank you for coming to our sho

w today. Rukshana: Thank you very much to you too. Basant: Ladies and Gentlemen, in this episode, we talked with activist Rukshana Kapali about our societal thinking and tried to understand the ideas and beliefs of Transgender people. Everyone’s rights should be respected. We need to learn to respect it. We must have the sensibility in us to not hurt anyone through our actions and behavior. We will meet again in a week. With this, I want to bid goodbye to you all. Don’t forget to join us next ti

me on CG Entertainment’s YouTube channel at Mann Ka Kura with Basant Chaudhary. With this, I am Basant Chaudhary signing off till we meet next week. Have a wonderful day. Thank You.