Pat McAfee, Peacock and NFL talk with ESPN Announcer Chris (Mad Dog) Russo | Marchand and Ourand Pod

We'll talk Pat McAfee Peacock and go at it as hard as we can. With Christopher Mad Dog Russo as our guest host. And I'm back the Marchand and Ourand sports Media podcast I'm Andrew Marchand, sports media columnist for the New York Post. John Ourand is off to cover hockey. Uh, good buddy there, John. All right. Uh, so, special guest Christopher mad dog Russo. You guys all know, or maybe the greatest sports talk show host of all time. Sirius XM, MLB network, and ESPN. How are you today, Chris? Hel

lo, Andrew. How you doing, big guy? Thanks. Good. Good to be. Yeah. Everything's well, uh, doing well and looking forward to this. Where you get into Peacock. Came a little bit of your career, Wolf. Karp's corner. Well, fun with him. Uh, championship games, NFL, Miami. Stephen. Hey, you want to talk about. So we'll get to all of it. But first we'll go who's up and who's down. Who's up? Who's down? We got Mad Dog here. He's ready to go. So here you go. Because you take it first with, uh. With wit

h. Who's up? All right. I would do Fox. Uh, Andrew number one, because you got Dallas and you got green Bay. That's an iconic game. The game itself may not be great, but the rival you know Packers and Cowboys. Lombardi. Landry. Ice Bowl mid-sixties. I mean, you can't get a better one than that. A lot of folks thought that might go to, uh, ESPN on Monday night. But ESPN had a great game last week. So Fox getting that game at 425 on Sunday afternoon, that game is going to get 35 million people. I

mean, let's be honest, that's going to have a tremendous rating. That would be up number one. Uh up number two. How about Tirico? He gets two games in 24 hours. He does the first game on Saturday night, the Peacock disaster. We'll get to that in a minute. That's Miami and Kansas City. And then he can fly to his hometown in Detroit, one at his hometown, but where he lives right now, and he can watch that and he can do the Lions and Rams on Sunday night. That's a big up for Mike getting the two up

s. The one down I came. How about Buck and Aikman. You think they want Philly and Tampa and uh they did Dallas Tampa last year. They did Tampa two years ago uh against the Eagles on a Sunday game. So somehow, someway they've gotten Tampa three years in a row on Wild Card weekend. I am sure Troy with Dallas playing in for 24 for 25 bucks, going to be thinking about baseball Eagles and Bucs on Monday night. That is not a big game as far as the Monday Night Football is concerned. And I give you ano

ther down. How about I am who I loved? I an Eagle doesn't get a postseason football game this year and his son does. The son does that Cleveland game against Houston Sunday Saturday afternoon. And because NBC has got three games this weekend and Nantz and Romo are going to gobble up all the oxygen with all the other games I and and number two, man does not do postseason football in 2024 and get ready for next Hawks. That's a rough one for Ryan. So that's a down. So those are my downs. That two u

p for Dallas and Tirico. And the two downs with uh the obviously the Buck and Aikman Monday night deal and Paul Ryan not getting a postseason game. How's that. What is the beauty of having the guest host. Because it's changed the format totally. But we're changing formats. Excellent stuff. Uh, as expected, a couple, you know, John Oliver never gave me two ups and two downs. You only gave one at a time. Uh, so great job by you. Let me do my. Who's up? Uh, big story this week. Pat McAfee, he gets

my. Who's up? Because he called ESPN executive Norby Williamson a rat. ESPN said they would handle everything internally. And then on the next show, the McAfee had, he talked about it. What I wrote the other day is that he's lost nearly 50% of the first take audience on average since he started, which isn't great. I know you can talk YouTube, but all the other social, uh, media metrics and those are important. But what ESPN did afterward were they try to combine everything, which is like putting

apples and oranges together and counting everything as apples. Um, so those are kind of some big numbers. So for McAfee, no ramifications. And he's totally boxed in ESPN because now they've appeased him for saying, calling one of their executives a rat. Um, and then kind of they said internally that they're going to handle it. They didn't they I guess they handled it internally. Then he spoke about it, uh, took a picture of Burke. Magnus, who's, uh, Norby Williamson's boss. Put that on the inte

rnet. Uh, so McAfee's the big winner by far in this whole thing thus far. Now, we're taping this on Tuesday. This afternoon he's going to have Aaron Rodgers on again. We'll see what happens with that. But right now who's up is Pat McAfee. Well you could go the other way with that too because you know he did not really do a you know he put Rodgers that was a rough spot. And you can certainly say Aaron we may we shouldn't go there with Jimmy Kimmel number one. Number two I mean listen Mac does a g

reat job and a lot of ways. But you can't be that sensitive all right. I mean, he is so sensitive. You and him, of course, have gotten into it somewhat. He's mad at you, but he's gotten mad at other writers. He's to let it go. You make an $85 million, whatever you're making. Uh, you can't get that wrapped up when somebody writes something that is not so much that's going to be in your corner. You can't come out swinging and bury everybody. I mean, nobody's a good man. I don't know Bert Mangus, b

ut Norman is a good man. Why don't you go out there and, you know, throw gantlets at him. And remember the one thing you could say about Mac McAfee, he's got to prove that he can last a long time with a network. You know, whether it's Barstool, whether it's Sirius XM, whether it's FanDuel. You know, he hasn't proved yet that you can stay ten, five, ten years now. Hey, probably kill me for saying this, but it's true. You can probably, you know, you got to stay a little longer here. He has. And sh

own yet the ability to be a little long lasting. And this is a case here that ESPN had a rough week. The guy's only been here for four months. It's not like he's been here for five years. So a little odd. And he's been so successful. His model superb. Why is he getting that worked up about what a rating might say. There's a lot of different ways to interpret it. I think you involved of course, probably has something to do with it because I know you and him have been at it at times. You print and

stuff and he doesn't like it. Let it go. It's not that important. So I'm not sure if I would say up with McAfee. I would say you could argue the other way down with McAfee. He's too much in the news, for crying out loud. Too much. Right. Well my who's down is Norby Williamson? The reason he got called a rat by McAfee. An ESPN statement. They've even said it was inappropriate that McAfee called him a rat. So they didn't back him there. They said no one cares. You know about ESPN as much, but I m

ean, if someone called you a rat, you probably want someone to say, hey, you know what? That's not right. Um, and for me, you know, knowing how all the stories happen, all these stories to see. Williamson is the number one trending topic on Twitter last Friday night is kind of amusing. Now, is it possible that Norby is going around Bristol saying that McAfee show, you know, is not great and you know they made a mistake, yada yada yada? Yeah, that's possible. I don't know that. Um, but that's pos

sible. So you know what? Uh, maybe that gives some credence to what McAfee said, but McAfee even said he doesn't know, uh, where the story came from. And, you know, we can get into this. But if you look at the column I wrote, there's no sources in the story. It's a rating story which is cut and dry. When you look at the linear ratings, uh, they lost 50% of, uh, the audience. And then I mentioned it before, you know, Burke, Magnus picture with McAfee, which might have been harmless, but, you know

, McAfee put it on the internet. That's the day after Norby Williamson reports the Burke Magnus the day after that happens, where he calls him a rat. There's a picture on the internet with normies. Boss standing with McAfee. Clear win for McAfee there, even if it was unintended. Um, so my who's doubt has to be Norby Williamson? Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna try to read that. I don't know the inner workings of ESPN like you do, so I'm not sure how ESPN feels about it. Obviously, they in a long term rel

ationship with Peyton, I just started he's on a college gameday over the weekend with the college football. So what are they going to do? I mean, you know, they want to go out there and they want to say something and they want to, you know, reprimand them. They want to back up Norby then you're going to have this becoming a bigger story than it really is. So I think what they probably decided to do is just let it blow over. So I'm not sure if I had read too much into the idea that they didn't ha

ve any outward support. Uh, Norby Williamson. So I'm not sure how they I mean, I think Norm is well respected. Everybody loves him. He very good to me. I, I love the guy. But I just think overall, uh, number one, I think you can make the make the case as a host. And I know Rogers is sort of a, you know, he's getting paid and everything else you have to correct. Rogers. One is I Aaron know we ain't going over and going over the top is is crossing the line. When he got on Kimmel he didn't do that.

Then he gets upset about the ratings, which you wrote and he takes it out on Norby. I don't know how this is a big week. He got attention, but he gets attention anyway. He's a huge, huge star. So I'm not exactly sure how this how this makes him look great to be perfectly and. To make him look great, it makes him look powerful in the sense of how ESPN is treated. The situation is they've given him power because when you look at it like you don't know, we don't know the workings of the contract,

right? But it's a licensing agreement. So that means that, uh, Rogers owns the show and then ESPN sells advertising against it on linear TV. And then also, um, there's the YouTube and all the other social components which they're trying to make money off of. And they felt like going into it that they were going to make money on the deal. Um, and if you look at what a show would cost in that, you know, time slot, if you had two hours, you paid everybody, um, you know, it'd be a little it'd be les

s than than the, uh, than what they're probably spending. But it wouldn't, it might not be that much a lot. So. So they might be able to make, uh, money on the deal. I would say this, though, when you talk about linear TV, nobody is going to be able to sustain if you continue to lose nearly 50% of your preceding audience, and it's 12% less than what Sportscenter did a year ago. And Colin Cowherd over on FS1 is coming close to beating you on some days. And so you could argue, okay, it's all these

other channels, but ESPN put the McAfee show on linear TV. If you don't, if you put it on there, then you think it's going to be successful on the end. It might still be. Let's be clear that those ratings could go up. It just started as only a few months in, uh, but it is football season, which you would think is bread and butter. And, um, as we move out of football season, uh, we'll see into the summer, you know, how that show does. Um, but so but I think McCarthy's in a good situation because

, um, he's been. He's shown that he can say anything. He's allowed to swear. You know, they got rid of the tank tops, I guess, now, but he had the tank tops. Um, he's allowed to do. There's different rules for him. Um, and it continues to be that way. And so, uh, I think that's a win for him. I know there is some kind of, uh. You know, the gravel said that McAfee's bigger than ESPN. Um, and I like Darren, but that's ridiculous. Uh, ESPN is way better. Bigger than anybody who's working there. Um,

it's about the games. And the focus. Last week was all about McAfee and Rogers, and they had just come off, um, a semifinal of the national championship in college football where they had unbelievable ratings approaching 30 million people. Um, and everyone was talking about McAfee. So, again, a win for McAfee overall. And all you guys are different. The talk show host type. Um, you know, you go back to Jim Rome and you and Mike and and a like Colin Cowherd, a lot of different styles. Stephen. A

, um, you know, McAfee is more of like a wrestling kind of persona. And so, like, kind of getting into these battles a little bit. When you listen to the show, there's like a lot of hard opinions on the show. It's sort of guys. It's like kicking. It out of football. It's a celebration of football in a lot of ways. It is so and then, you know, he is to he is very sensitive. That's what a lot of people say is very sensitive about anything or. Can be this sensitive. And when you're this successful

and a former NFL player, you can't let it go off your back. I know we all have a tendency to get defensive in certain scenarios. I mean, I have many a time in 40 years, but I mean, in his case, with the success he's got, he's on the game day. He's got, as you said, all these outlets. He's got a YouTube making a fortune. I mean, you almost you can't get worked up about what somebody says, you know, in a newspaper or how they interpret it, ratings and everything else. Here's the bottom line. As yo

u said, he's got Aaron Rodgers on every Tuesday. People listen. He's got Saban on there once a week. People listen to that. He's a huge guy now, uh, you know I don't know how to read the ratings. So as you just said, if you're getting this much power, there's no need to get that upset and throw something like more big under the bus. It's just not necessary. That would be my take on. It, I would agree. And also, he doesn't even know. He said, I don't know. Um, so it's got to become a big deal. Al

l right. Let's move on to topic two, the Peacock game. Uh, on Saturday night, uh, I got the Chiefs hosting the Dolphins. What's your take on Peacock getting a national game exclusively. Well, here's the first thing. I think the NFL did a terrible job for Miami. They should not be playing in this game. Not after they played Sunday night. Uh, they have to travel. Buffalo should be playing in a game. They should have made the decision that whoever won the game on Sunday night gets to a home game. I

n Buffalo's case, they get the home game. And since they don't have to travel, let them play Saturday against Pittsburgh at night and put Miami Sunday at 1:00 on CBS with Mahomes. They don't want to do that because Peacock wants Mahomes in there. And since they the three seed Miami's a 16. That's the scenario Miami got the short end of the stick. That's unlike the NFL. They very rarely put their television situation ahead of the competitive aspect of it. But they gave whatever Peacock paid him t

o do the game. 110,000,110. Million. That's a lot of money. And they want to sell more of these streaming games. And so they basically made a concession at Peacock. They want Mahomes. We got to get Mahomes. That means Miami's got to go there because they fell on the sixth seed. All right. They played Sunday night the Saturday stuff. They're going to deal with it. That's unlike the NFL. They should not have done that to Miami. Now mine is like the same thing. People are going to say Chris is it t

hat big a deal? Uh, you can make it. You can say it isn't. But in normal circumstances, historically, the NFL would not have done this. They would not have made a team in a postseason play Sunday night into Saturday night when there was a window on Sunday morning or Sunday afternoon. But I don't see your point because if, uh, Buffalo. But they travel back from Miami on Sunday. But they don't have to go travel to Kansas City, traveling back to it's not to to get on a plane Friday after you played

Sunday night to go to Kansas City. That's not fair. That's not fair. They should have. Maybe that's the penalty for being the sixth seed and not winning your your division. Now you know what? That's the penalty for getting $110 million for Peacock. And Kansas City's the sixth seed. And they want Mahomes. That's what the penalty 100%. Now you're right. No listen they want it. They don't like I don't like what the NFL did in that situation. I don't like the idea of selling these playoff games to

how much point is the NFL need exactly. They're never satisfied. I mean, they need another 110 million divided by the 32 owners. It's 3 million apiece. Is it that author blank freaking has a cup of coffee. It's $3 million. Is it that big a deal? Well, another $110 million. I mean, I, I don't know, that bothers me to no end. I mean, I have it I'm certainly going to watch it. And once the game begins, I'm not going to care anymore. But I thought it was a little unfair to Miami to make them have to

go playing Kansas City and travel after a late Sunday night game. That's. It's a lot easier to get home off a win in Buffalo's case, and then play Saturday night without traveling than it is in Miami's case to lose the game and then have to get on a plane Friday to go to Kansas City. I didn't think that was fair. Well, the NFL, they want streaming to work. We saw that with Amazon schedule this year was improved because when you look at the landscape of media going over the next decade or so, I,

you know, there's going to be who knows where we're going to be a decade from now. But one of the things that the NFL wants is they want to make sure the streamers are going to spend big money, because if it doesn't work when they stream these games, then you're stuck with broadcast TV, decline of cable, and it's not necessarily going to be a perfect scenario for them. So they want to create a environment. So that's what they're doing there. I understand well, but is that what they had to give

Mahomes and couldn't give QBs Mahomes on Sunday would you? What you think you want. You want a Texans and Browns there. Well no you could put Pittsburgh and Buffalo there. But that's a pretty good matchup. Pittsburgh is a national team. There's no. Nobody wants to see Mason Rudolph playing. There's no sex appeal to that game. And you're right. But it also be zero degrees though with the Chris it's going to be I mean it's cold in Buffalo no matter what. But a Saturday night in Buffalo is not goin

g to be exactly, uh, warm weather. But they have played signs in Buffalo before. New England played a Saturday night in Buffalo last year. Uh, so they have played that same night game in Buffalo in the past, and the NFL could care less about whether the fans freeze. They don't interest in the fans. They don't they don't care about the fans. I didn't like it. That's me. I understand Buffalo would have had a travel two. They traveled Sunday night. I did not like it. Now, as far as the actual scena

rio of the streaming services getting playoff games. I'm not in love with that either. I hate the games on the streaming. You can't switch back any remote. I didn't watch a lot of the Thursday night games anyway. It kind of drives you a little crazy. Um, and you know, to me, how much money can the NFL make? They got a $110 million. It's $3 million a team. Really, guys, we're going to make sure that John Mara makes another $3 million to put a game on a peacock. His father would freaking in his gr

ave would go, well, this is ridiculous. His father wanted to play Sunday at 1:00 at the old Polo Grounds, for crying out loud, when he ate when the Giants used to play there. To me, it's another money grab. It's a little much to me. And plus, NBC got three games this weekend, which can't make CBS and Fox happy because they got the two on Saturday and I got the Sunday night game. So they got three games. But they paid for him. I mean, they paid the 100. For the one extra one, they. Paid for the o

ne extra. And then in the existing deals, they got the extra playoff game as well. So they're, you know, over indexing on the uh, on the playoff games and they usually even things out as they go. You know, they try to make it even as they go through obviously the championship games or they rest with CBS and Fox in terms of the AFC. And I think they try to even now for ESPN. ESPN got a good game on last weekend. I got the only knock out game we had in Houston and the Colts. They got that game sta

ndalone game. They also got Pittsburgh in the afternoon. And you know, you can mention that they got to put the 4 or 5 game there. No they don't on Monday. They they don't have to put the 4 or 5 game there. And uh to me uh, you know they got the worst game of the weekend. I mean, the Bucks Eagles game that there was no juice to that game whatsoever. The only juice to the game is to see the Eagles recover from awful performance. Nobody wants it. Nobody wants to. The NFC or the AFC South play is w

hat it comes down to. Those divisions are bad and you know those. And nobody wants those games and ESPN to me you got a bad one on Monday night to me. Now let's bring in Austin. Karp. This is a thing we call Hearts Corner homes corner. And we've reached Austin Karp. He's the ratings guru for the Sports Business Journal. We're gonna have some fun with Austin. All right, Austin, let's first talk. Pat McAfee and the ratings. You know, ESPN had a release where I think they said it was like he has 88

5,000 views or something per show. Uh, and when, you know, that's not really traditionally how you do ratings, it's Nielsen ratings. Then you obviously can look at TikTok and YouTube and all that stuff. What's your take on that? Just like putting all these numbers together. Well, I had a big eyeroll because I'm sure every property, every show would like to incorporate their social media numbers into what they're also getting on linear TV. But if you look at that number in December, like you were

talking about around 86, that's what they said. I'm thinking the NBA could do around 25 million a game. If you're talking about everybody watching dunks across all the across all social media platforms, but the number you need to know that that they put in the release was around 332,000 viewers in the month of December for McAfee. What is that? It's a it's a an episode of Sports Center. It's an episode of one of their morning shows. That's what that show is typically doing. It's in the range of

what else ESPN is doing for studio shows. And then when you look at the YouTube and the TikTok and all that stuff, I mean, those aren't even independently done, right? I mean, that's not so how much, uh, you know, how do we verify that of those, you know, how much ferocity to put to those? Not much yet. Unless you have, like, some third party verification, you're kind of just it feels like you're pulling it out of out of thin air, especially when you talk about. Oh, well, it did this across ESP

N plus. I've never seen a number pulled out of ESPN plus. They haven't released that. For anything else out there. Why should I start using that number now? Okay. Is the future something where you do incorporate how something is doing on social media plus TV? Yeah, I think in the future there could be something like that. If there is third party measurement, if it's verifiable, because you're going to want advertisers to know that bigger number. How many people are you actually reaching? Are we

there yet? No. So I was very surprised to see ESPN go with such a big number for McAfee there. Now, Chris had some thoughts about the NFL schedule this weekend. Uh, Austin, I'm sure you've looked at it. Chris. What what's your biggest takeaway? Is that Saturday night game, right. Yeah. Well, for me, I mean, uh, you know, first off, green Bay Dallas is going to get a huge rating on at for 25 not 425 window. And then you got the Lions Rams after that. So you're going to be into the football mode.

They're going to do really well Sunday uh the Sunday night thing with uh Peacock. I mean there'd be people who just not watch it out of principle. Uh, it is a Saturday night. Uh, they just saw Miami, but Mahomes will bring some eyeballs to the sets. It is an NFL playoff game. You know, they may they're not going to do as well as Saturday Sunday. They're going to do great Saturday won't do as well. I'm going to let you guys tell me how many people will you know obviously see it on Peacock. I mean

I got to figure what 2223. Maybe we will get over under game. We are going to do the over under game. All right. So wait Chris you're putting the number of 22 million. Yeah I do that. Like I don't think the under. You'll take the under. Yes Austin I'm going slightly under. Yeah 20 million if you figure you know the best NFL streaming audience so far uh, for a streaming only game is around 15, 15.5 million viewers. It better get 20 million viewers to justify putting this type of game a playoff g

ame on Peacock. So Austin says 20. Okay. All right. Before you go, we're going to do all we're going to do that. We were going to do we're going to do the over under game. Okay. We were hoping that the ratings for this past week or in it's going to be Austin. You're you're Mike Francesa Chris you're yourself um this weekend okay. The late game Cowboys Packers on Fox I'm going to put the number on. We're do a little bit differently than than you guys used to do back in the day Chris I'm going to

put the number at 32 million. You got the over you got the under. I'm going to go over I'll go over. Um, you know, uh, I'm not sure about the weather, but Green Bay's a national team. Dallas is a magnet, uh, for 25 people. We're going to settle on a football. Now, listen, a game needs to be close. So, you know, part of it is the game itself. It's 45 to 10. You're going to lose interest. But Thanksgiving. What did that commander game do with that 44 million people. Was that what it was? And that

something crazy like, yeah, this is a playoff game on a Sunday. I'll go north of 32 over. I'm also going over. I don't think the NFL could have asked for a better matchup in that window. The Packers completely overperformed, and the NFL was given a gift by having Packers Cowboys in that Sunday 430 window. It's traditionally the biggest window of the weekend. I think it's going to continue to be that. I think it's going to draw well north of 32 million. All right. Last one of that. We'll let Aust

in go Monday Night Football. What number do you have uh, for that? It Chris said it's a dog game. Uh, we got the Eagles and the Buccaneers. Um, I'll put the over under. I'll put the over under. 25 million there. Yeah, I would have said 26. Um, you know, the game will be closed. Still is a big market. It's Monday night and January. Uh, I'll go slightly over, uh, say the. I do about 27, 28 million. So I'll go slightly up then. Won't hit 30, but I would go over on it. I'm going to go slightly under

. I think that fewer people are interested in that. In the Eagles, the story has gone the complete opposite direction this season. Uh, if you look at the Buccaneers, they're just not a national team anymore without Tom Brady there. That is not a national draw. They were not highlighted pretty much at all on national TV this year. On going slightly under maybe closer to 2324 million on that one. All right Austin Carr appreciate it as always corner. Chris the reason I want to do the overrun I mean

what are the all time things you and Mike did was every Monday during I think football season, you guys would do the ratings. And back then I mean, I was a kid when I first started listening to that. Um, I don't know if anybody really understands what a 4.1 meant, but for some reason it was so entertaining. And you did something today and I'm so happy. I mean, I'm sure my loyal Mike and the Mad Dog listeners, uh, were caught it. You're like, well, it depends on the weather because you used to g

o, you give me, you give Mike the you give Mike the number. You say, I'm like, what do you think about Patriots Jets? And then you'd go, well, you got the weather, you got it. Then you'd say it was, you know, no one on the northeast. Uh, and then the thing I loved about it is Mike would, like, get it right. Right. And you acted as if he just, like, invented the car. It was. It was unbelievable. Your excitement level, uh, for that segment was always, uh, just tremendous energy. I love to do it. U

h, the other one that people got into was the over unders for the season. You know, we used to do that every year before the three seasons, the football, the baseball and the basketball pick the over wonders for the year. And we used to keep track of that. So we got into that too. It was a way to break it up a little bit. It was a way to get ten, 12 minutes, get a segment out of it. But you're right, we love the ratings. I still love the ratings. And it took me a while and you to sort of make th

e change, the switch from the ratings specifically on 4.1, 8.1, whatever it might be to actual millions. So now I know what the I have a sense of the the amount of people with the millions and the old days and, and cares so much about how many people I was in and the actual number. Now it's about the, the actual total. So it's a little different and I've made that adjustment. But I love the ratings. I mean, I've always gotten into it, uh, but and obviously the NFL's king what they have about 40

at the top 50 shows this year as far as the ratings are concerned. Yep. I mean, something crazy. And they're going to do really well here. You know, they're probably track 100 million into Super Bowl. Uh, you know they swallow up everything. Would they kill the NBA Christmas? Was it all the NBA games on Christmas Day did not equal the worst of the three games on the, uh, on the NFL that day. Is that what it was? If you end up all the end of NBA games on Christmas Day, it got it didn't even equal

the worst of the three games for the NFL. That tells you what you need to know and the powerful and the uniqueness of the NFL brand. It's killed baseball in October. You know they got to go up against the NFL. That's a major problem. It kills the NBA at Christmas. You know, uh, football is king. I mean, it's really uh, we are a one nation sport right now with the NFL throwing a little college and the other sports is, uh, grappling for little tidbits, you know, whether baseball, the basketball a

nd everything else, that's how powerful the NFL is. It really? Yeah, I think 92 of the top 100 shows. Last year, 92. I think that's the number, um, that they that they had now. And look at your career now, I mean we're gonna go a little bit to, to to to Mad dogs career. Um, and I've kind of written it like, look, I don't want to make this. I'm liking the versus the mad dog thing, but I do think you kind of Tom Brady to the mix. Peyton Manning's his career because, you know, you had Mike the Mad

Dog together. Then Mike did hang on for a while. And you know, the ratings stayed the same. But you went the serious. I think there were a time there where it was a little bit. Little dicey. Little radio, nowhere kind of thing. As you say at the beginning, your show, little radio, nowhere. And yeah, the MLB network. Um, and now this ladies is ESPN, which is really kind of changed things again for you here as you're in your mid-sixties. Um, what is it been like for you last year, year and a half,

uh, with the ESPN thing and, and, you know, now I know obviously just the, you know, overall when you look at post Mike the mad Dog. Well, I remember I'm five years younger than Mike, so I had five extra years to work with. Um, you know, I know that was, uh, I know a lot of people thought as a risk when I went to serious, and I looked at it from a creative standpoint. Um, you know, the MLB network was an add on, uh, was fun. I love baseball. Uh, Tony Petit, who doesn't love baseball? On a day,

they are bases. They make it so easy for me. That's number two. And then they first tag thing was, you know, came out and. Aware left field, you know, I mean, uh, Stephen a he's always looked up to me for whatever the reason, you know, grew up in Hollis. You know, he likes to talk radio, likes to debate format. He listened to Mike and Mike talk for a long time. And, you know, who would have thought at 60, whatever it might be, 61, 62 years of age? Uh, easily a little bit. I said, yeah, I age a l

ittle bit. Sorry about that. Yeah. I mean, I know I was 62 when it started. Okay. Got it. Okay. I saw that at 62 years of age, you know, but that I would have had this little renaissance. But I think I provide something for ESPN where I can appeal to maybe a different segment of the audience that they're not going to necessarily have the appeal to the older guy, you know, uh, the, the get off my lawn type of guy. And I think they didn't have that. So I think that I've been able to fill that void

, which is important. But the one thing I have learned more than anything else about working on that show is that whatever you say on that show, you're going to get a ton of attention. I mean, if you get into the ESPN machine where, you know, they see something that's funny or goofy or what I'm mad about where they put it. I mean, you, you, you get cycled in so many different places that people, you know, they just pick up on it. I say a lot of the same things on ESPN that I said on radio the la

st ten, 30, 40 years. But, you know, I don't have nearly the amount of impact on a radio to a different kind of audience. Limbaugh specified. You're saying on ESPN, oh my God, the whole world picks up on it, at least in the sports, uh, category. And I think that's the biggest adjustment you gotta make. You gotta realize, geez, when you go on air and you do 3 or 4 segments of what you're mad about, and that's the thing that people seem to catch on, uh, you know, it's amazing the amount of juice i

t can have. And that's a lot of it has to do with the ESPN power. Now, when they put you in that, you know, that that y you know, the car wash, they put you in here, they put you there, they put you here. All of a sudden, you know, a particular segment like that can take off. That's the thing that I've learned more than anything else 62 years of age. If you work for 35, 38 years, you never thought that you would appeal to a totally different audience, you know, late in late in your broadcasting

life. And that's what the ESPN first tank is done. And he's great. I mean, let's be honest. And he is very good because he gives me a chance to do what I want to do. And I almost look at the the wall as to give him a little break. You know, being on air every day is not that easy in person. A lot of times he's doing it from L.A., which means he's up at 7:00 in the morning getting riled up and doing a TV talk show at 7 a.m.. That's not that. At 4:30 a.m., conference calls. That is not that easy.

So I kind of feel on a Wednesday if I can take a little load off, um, you know, that's part of my, uh, that's part of my responsibility. So it's been a huge find. I mean, I kind of look at it this way, you know, I had a mike and a mentor career, which was very successful. I had a serious career, which was very successful for a little MLB. And now I've had this third upswing with this first tag thing. So I've been lucky that I those almost have three lives doing that. So I mean very, very fortuna

te. Right place, right time. And, you know, the ability that you have to have as a talk show host to me and to be a real good one and to last a long time, you have to be able to appeal to variety of segments of the population. You know, you probably don't need to turn to last a long time. There's you got to appeal to the young fan, the older fan, the the Mrs.. The Mr.. Uh, uh, African-American white. There's a lot of different aspects of the fandom that you have to somehow appeal to. And with al

l the avenues that I have right now, radio audience, a baseball audience, a first take audience, I've been able to appeal to those segments. And that's why I've had a little run here in the last, whatever it might be. Plus, the fact I got a lot of the media guys would get a kick out of me. Jimmy Trainer, for instance, you get a kick out of me. Raisman still kicking around. So from that standpoint, I have people watching me who who write about it and talk about it. So it's a it's a big plus. I've

been very, very lucky here the last two and a half years. So here's the thing I've written before that you, you have a screw missing, but it's a good screw to be missing for a talk show host. Okay, so that's the this is my question for you is this when you do the you know what you're mad about first take that. One of the thing that stands out is how close you get to the camera. Right. Um, was that again I. Know, like. How did that come about? Not planned. It just evolved into, uh, evolved into

that. It's like when I do a radio show, a lot of times I get close to that microphone. I, you know, it's my way of getting closer to the people watching or listening to the show. I don't feel distant, but I'm right on top of them. They it's almost like there's a little bit more of a chain, a togetherness. And, you know, I now I understand that that is. Become a little add on how close he gets to that dopey camera. So now I'm going to be I'm going to be smart about it. I'm going to embellish that

aspect of it, and I'll follow that camera all the way around. But, you know, I think that segments me on Wednesdays is important segment. I think people kind of my audience looks forward to it. I try to save some stuff for that that I don't do anywhere else. So I don't repeat it 3000 different times. I try to do that. They got good producers who know what they're trying to get out of it. Uh, you know who know me from the radio days? The ESPN producers. So there's an element of that that I reall

y get a kick out of. Hey, listen, let's be honest, for his take has been a huge hit for me. I give all the credit in the world to Steven. A ESPN lets me do essentially what I want to do. They don't control it. They say, Hey Chris, go ahead. You want to do that? I mean, I'm smart not to go too crazy, but I even got on some ESPN stuff and I don't really have a problem with it, so I'm able to do that. And, you know, the radio is the bread and butter. That's what you really enjoy. Your on three hour

s every day. The radio and and MLB is sort of a niche thing. But I love the baseball. But but the first take is sort of a national thing. And it's amazing the amount of people who pick up on it and see me in the airports, you know, at remotes, they, they, they know who the Mad Dog is now based on first taking and listen to the radio or watch the baseball. So it's provided a different audience for me really has. And you think you'll add more ESPN? Uh, I don't think I think the one day a week is p

erfect. Okay. You know, I so from a first stake standpoint, I think it's perfect. But here is something that is interesting. I'll give you a little something you'll find interesting. When I did that Cummings thing in September. Yes. When my wife was visiting our kids in college. And, you know, I said it in a production meeting, so Marley set me up for it because I didn't think she would. You know what I'm going to do this weekend? Did you know that I did that on a Wednesday? And did you know the

NFL countdown? The producers call me up to have me go to a studio in Norwalk to do a 2.5 minute jet? Patriots I did, I saw that, I saw. That and you know, and I they said, Chris, please. And with gummies on the weekend. So we did it. It's amazing. I mean, how many people is let's be fair, how many people can get on national TV and say that her daughter, that his daughter bought him gummies for Christmas, I just any and I'm any but not that we're used. To as well. Not many. That's right. People

would be a little bit more judicious about providing that information. I don't care necessarily, and I think that's why people still like me. Here's the key word for me that's important is authentic. Yeah. 100% passion and passion. I think authenticity and passion. I think that's the thing. I think you have to care who the second baseman of the Cubs is always. If you're a talk show host, I am not saying that you're talking about that, but you need to care about that. And when you start to fake i

t and people do, because when you do it for a long time, the games can kind of, you know, there's things that come along with the job. They're all great jobs. And, you know, uh, we're all lucky to be in sports. But, you know, that can be hard in some respects for for a variety of reasons and even a talk show host, you can get, you know, of, get bored. You don't seem bored by the games or you're into it and you want to watch, um, which and talk about them. And, and I think that is really what mak

es it so you've had, you know, decades and decades and. And I tell you what helps. And I hate to say this, and I hate to admit it because it's I wouldn't have said this 30 years ago. Betting helps. There's no way around it. I mean, and betting is such an important component of the sports world today. I mean, you know, everybody puts the odds on it. You know, what's FanDuel say over under and all that. Everybody puts that on there. And, you know, 30, 40 years ago no one at that. Yeah 30 years ago

Mike and I would do the lines, work with the lines. But when Mike and I started I can remember the, uh, the times and whenever we put the lines in and the NFL would get mad at me and Mike when he made the picks on Friday that we did the lines. Well, that's minus three and a half. This is back in 1990, so. And I never bet like that in 1990. Now you bet more. And it does keep you I hate to say, because, you know, you like to be a little bit more, uh, realist. You know, you like the, you know, fee

l the passion from within that you care about the game. But betting is a factor. There's no way around it. It's a factor for me to stay this involved this long. Betting helps. I'm not going to dispute it. It's almost, uh, it's almost an occupational hazard. And you don't win. You never win. But it's almost an occupational hazard. And that's just. And if people don't like it, what can I tell you? That's the way it is. I'm 64 years of age. I've been watching these games for 40 years. If this helps

me get more involved in a games, that means it helps to show. Because as you said, I'll be more passionate about the games because, uh, more focused on the games, because I might have some money on. Yeah, that has a little juice. It gives you a little a little juice. It gives me a little juice 100%. Well, listen, this has been a pleasure. Uh, from who's up? Who's down? The topics we brought in Austin. Karp. Uh, Chris, like like I said, I mean, I'm I rated it one day. I got to really think about

it fully, but, um, I think there's a pretty good argument to be made. You're the best sports talk host of all time. Uh, I mean, it's not a, you know, it's not like saying I'm the best president of all time. So that's that's keep that in mind. So different power station and it's a. Different category. I appreciate it I appreciate it. Yeah. You're know how I have to think about it fully. Um, but uh but I think you can make that argument for your definitely in the country. Here's the key word for

me. And I think about this a lot. You know what I like to do more. The Indians. What's it I like to perform. Yeah. I like to get on a stage. You know, I almost let him in appearances. Yeah. I like to get on a stage and perform. And as long as I still like doing it, I'll still do it. Well, from Letterman to Marsh, he had an aura. And without aura and sports media, podcasts, he really was going in the right direction. Uh, but, uh, we really I do appreciate it. And you do a great job. And you. Than

k you. No matter what. Pat McAfee says our path, we do it. Because we've been good that night. And I have been good. I thought at times. And I've reached out to him when there's the news. Uh, you know, the last the previous story, he confirmed what I was writing about him, you know, paying Aaron Rodgers, etc.. So what? You know, that's part of that's an occupational hazard that comes along with the job. Chris, I appreciate. We had a run ins back in the day. I had a run in with my old nemesis. We

did. We had a couple, but I think overall we've been pretty good the whole game. Yeah we have yeah we have, we. Have I mean we did have a couple. We had a couple. But before with the uh. It was more is more with your partner um, or ex-partner. So, uh. All right. Well, Chris, thank you very much. Good job Andrew. Keep in touch. All right. Talk to you. Ah. Thank you. Ah, that was fun. Um, as always, I want to thank A.C. Wyatt and the master of the board, Chris Mason. Um, you know those asking abo

ut the pod still in question? Not sure, but we'll have an answer. What exactly is going to go on? Appreciate you. Keep listening. And special thanks to Chris Russo, uh, for, uh, for joining us today. So thanks, everybody. And I'm back. The more. Shannon Orient's sports media columnist. Oh my God, it should work. The.