State of the Consumer: The Digital Age of Sports

- Hi everyone, this is Matt Britton, CEO of Suzy. I want to thank everybody for joining today's webinar on The Digital Age of Sports. For those of you who are new to this State of Consumer webinar series, we started this in the heart of the Pandemic in March, 2020, and have continued over the last several years, pumping out content for our customer base, for our community about trends and issues that are important to business, culture and society. And along the way have really been fortunate eno

ugh to get some incredible guests on our webinar series. And today is really no different. The fall is my personal favorite time of the year. One big reason is it's football season. The NBA season starts not too long from now, in about a month, and we're heading into the playoff season in Major League Baseball. It's just a great time to be a sports fan and kind of the process of fandom has really changed dramatically over the last decade with the rise of social media and influencers and some eme

rging technologies like virtual reality, and augmented reality that we'll get into. So, really excited to dive in today to the digital age of sports. I'm Matt Britton, I'm founder and CEO of Suzy. We are a market research software platform that works with over 500 leading global brands, helping them put their finger on the pulse of the consumer through an on-demand research platform called Suzy, which connects on-demand audiences with a quantitative qualitative research platform that companies a

re using across the product development lifecycle. We have amazing guests here today for our webinar. Dustin Godsey, who's the CMO of the Milwaukee Bucks; Michael Shaw, VP of marketing for the Miami Dolphins and a lot of other properties in the Miami area; and Jorge Urrutia del Pozo, who's a sports management consultant who has worked for several roles within the sports industry. And we had a really lively preparation discussion for this, and I'm really excited to get into that discussion for al

l of you today. Today, before we jump into a conversation with our guests, I'm going to be going over sort of a quick study that we conducted on consumers about kind of the state of fandom in the sports arena. We conducted this study using our Suzy platform on August 29th with a sample size of a thousand sports fans. And that sample size is census-weighted across age, gender, ethnicity, and region. And we'll be referencing that during my beginning presentation, which I'm going to dive into now.

And then again, we're going to get into a lively discussion with our esteemed panel of guests. So it's no surprise, and everyone knows, we are living in the most digital era yet. There are nearly 7 billion smartphone users around the world. 86% of people have smartphones today. We are living in a completely different world. But what's interesting is the game played on the field, whether it's, you know, football or basketball or baseball, or what's called futbol in Europe, which is we call soccer

in America, those games themselves haven't changed, right? What happens on the field is generally still the same, but the consumer has changed and the expectations of the consumer has changed along the way. Sports is definitely being impacted by the digital age in many different ways. We talked about virtual reality. AI is really entering its way into the sports industry, especially when it comes to gaming and sports betting. Sports betting was something that was really quite taboo as recently

as maybe five to seven years ago. And now you even have companies like ESPN that are reportedly getting into sports gaming, and some of the stadiums are actually allowing sports betting in the actual stadiums. So that has changed the game. Unfortunately, with that, we've seen several athletes get caught way more than we used to being involved in sports betting. So it's kind of entering that arena. And we're also seeing a lot of professional athletes becoming influencers in their own rights, and

people like Draymond Green and Travis Kelsey and Jason Kelsey hosting their own podcast. So the athletes are far more accessible than they've ever been in the past and really are very much focused on building their own brands and their own audiences that go well above and beyond what happens in the field of play. So how do fans feel about everything? That's really what we're going to be diving in today and really jumping on three major topics. First and foremost, experience. What role should dig

ital play in the fan experience? Engagement, how are fans engaging with sports beyond the stadium? And endorsements, what's the state of endorsements when it comes to partnerships and athlete endorsements? Of course, we've seen, in the college athletic ranks, a lot of evolution in NIL, which is name, interest, and likeness, where now some really prominent college athletes are making millions of dollars from these name, interest and likeness deals, which is something that college athletes used to

get, you know, kicked out of school for and penalized for, both the colleges and college athletes. That's changed as well. So, so much has changed off the field, and that's really what we're going to dive into today. So experiences. Our first insight's digital experience could not really replicate the feeling of watching live in-person sports. And we've actually found through our research that attending in real life sporting events is really good for you. You know, we live in a world right now,

especially here in the United States, where it's very polarized and there's so much divisiveness that happens in culture and in politics, and you know, there's so much wealth disparity, which we'll get into in a second as well. But what you find is that if you ever go to a raucous sporting event, there is comradery, as this picture, I think, connotates. And it's one of the few places left, unfortunately, in America at least, where you really feel a sense of shared vision, shared goals and commu

nity, and there's really nothing else like it and nothing else you can really compare to it than going to an in-person sporting event. Attending live sporting events predicts subjective wellbeing and reduces loneliness because you have that feeling of connectivity. And seeing sports events in real person really just boosts people's mental health, in some instances, as much as getting a job. And for many, going to a stadium is their happy place. And there's so much stories about family and tradit

ion and relationships that kind of come with people going to events, and they create memories that people hold onto for a lifetime. And it is so much bigger than sports itself. It really is about the human connection. And that's what I think people who aren't sports fans, or the casual sports fans, doesn't really understand that people's interest in sports and going to sports is so much more than sports itself, and that's why it's such a powerful force in culture. So personalized fan experiences

, they're not interested necessarily in not going to a game, but one thing we have found through our research is in-person stadium tours is something that, for example, fans are really interested in because you know, what they're finding over time, is they're not able to go to events because the game tickets are no longer affordable. If you look at the pricing of going to games, it really is out of reach for many consumers, so that's why they're saying, "Well, okay, if I can't afford to go to a

game, maybe I can get in-person, you know, tickets because it's just increasingly difficult to go to a game based upon the rising prices." It really has, over time, alienated a lot of fans who aren't, you know, in the upper echelons of income earning consumers because the cost of gas and parking and concessions and merchandise and tickets, again, have gone largely out of reach. And we see that also happening with things like theme parks and Disney, which are slowly pricing their way out of the c

ore consumer. In fact, sports fans can be paying 117% more for sports tickets in the next 25 years. We've also seen it with concerts, you know? You saw the prices this summer of the Taylor Swift tour, the Beyonce tour where, you know, it just became out of reach for so many American consumers. So, you know, I don't know what these sports franchises can do about it because at the same time, their cost of paying athletes and their cost of so many rights deals and things of that nature are pushing

them in a direction where they have to spend more money and they have to make that up through merchandise, through ticket sales, et cetera. So it's not necessarily that the teams are being greedy, it's that everything is getting more expensive, and the teams kind of have to follow suit. We are also seeing a lot of rising sports, one of which is tennis. One in three consumers are interested in tennis, but less than 20% has seen it in-person. Again, that's an example. You look at the US Open, you

look at Wimbledon, these big events, it's just out of reach for consumers to go to. So a lot's been discussed about VR. Can VR replace the fan, you know, experience? And when we talked to consumers, only 10% prefer to engage with sports using VR, virtual reality. And obviously, as we all know, Apple recently came out with its Vision Pro device. I think when companies like Apple continue to innovate in a space like this, maybe over time consumers will look and be a little bit more open-minded to

engaging with sports in a VR or AR environment. The one place I do think there's a lot of applicability with sports and VR is in gaming, and the gaming graphics of programming titles like "Madden" or "2K" have become so good that sometimes people will walk into a room and actually think it's a real game going on. So one way I think sports fans kind of quench their thirst of sports is participating in gaming and that's why some of these huge titles continue to really thrive. But as I mentioned, s

port is such a visceral physical experience that trying to replicate it virtually, you know, I think may fall short. And we're also seeing it with the Metaverse. I mean, the Metaverse was going to be something that was really supposed to take off. We all know it was largely a bust with consumers and there was a lot of talk about sports taking place in the metaverse, but I just don't think the technology to consumers is really there yet. So we are seeing, as I mentioned earlier, a lot of brands g

ive away both tickets to games and tickets through experiences surrounding the game, whether it be a tour of the stadium or tailgating event or fan base experiences. And that is definitely a way where teens can extend the experience of the game, beyond just the game itself to again, make it accessible to more fans. And I think that's really a great opportunity to see brands like PacSun and Coca-Cola really dive into that. So how are fans engaging with sports beyond the stadium? And one way that

fans are engaging is by analyzing sports. And basically they're doing it through social media. They're doing it through gaming. Nine in 10 Gen Z sports fans are using social media to consume content as consumptions habits shift. And I would say it's not just about analyzing sports through social media, it's a whole new way of consuming. If you look at Gen Z, you can almost think of the way that they consume sports. It's almost analogous to the difference of the way that Gen Z consumes music, ver

sus the way that Gen Xers did. Gen Xers, like myself, used to buy CDs or cassette tapes, really dating myself here, of albums. And you'd buy an album of the artist, and now people are on Spotify streaming the hits, right? They don't always want the album, they just want that one song. And I would say they are really following sports the same way, where instead of them consuming a team or a game, they are following players or they're following highlights or the hits of the game. It's super short

form. They're consuming a lot more quantity, but just shorter form versus consuming a whole album or a whole team season or a whole game, they're going on TikTok and looking at highlights, which is why, and our guests will talk about this, so many sports scenes have invested in their own digital studios to produce short form content of highlights to make the sports more consumable and more shareable for the younger consumers. In terms of the channels that younger consumers are engaging with onli

ne sports, Facebook is still up there just because it has such a massive audience. But we're definitely seeing more of a shift towards platforms like TikTok and YouTube and Instagram reels where, the short form content is really what's being shared. The highlights are what's being shared. Consumers and fans aren't interested much in analytics and data. And a big reason why is because of gaming. I see in my own feed, being a rabid sports fan, so many posts are just about stats, stats about how pl

ay individual players are performing and what people can take from that. Because gaming and fantasy sports have gotten so big, that fans are looking at the game differently. They're trying to get an edge, almost the same way that people who invest are trying to get an edge in the stock market. People gaming in sports is so big right now that you're seeing ESPN when they're running Sports Center, they are now running the point spreads of games. You see during games interstitials during, like when

TNT covers the NBA at halftime, they're doing an interstitial for Fan Duel or Draft Kings about the odds of how much, how many points Steph Curry's going to score in the second half of the game. And they're actually integrating it into their programming. So that's how much gaming has become such an important driver. Now obviously there are tons of drawbacks to gaming, there's gambling addiction, there's kids that are getting involved at very young ages in gambling. But just like anything else,

you know, it's about moderation and it's about hopefully if it's kids, the parents, you know, overseeing it or if it's adults, them gambling in moderation for mental amusement, not as a alternative source of income. 'cause we all know the house always wins. But gaming has really created sort of this gravity to fandom that makes people so much more interested in games, especially when you're looking at games outside your favorite team. Google had a landmark deal this year with the NFL for their S

unday ticket package, where now YouTube TV is publishing, you know, basically out of market games for consumers and it just makes it so much more accessible. I used to have this satellite dish that I, I remember when I lived in Boston outside of college, I was literally trying to affix a satellite dish outside my apartment window so I can watch my beloved Philadelphia Eagles when I lived in Boston. And now it's just as simple as switching around to a different program on YouTube TV. So it's made

sports so much more accessible for fans and the US sports betting market has really exploded. You look at the growth over time and it's continuing to be a huge driver and a huge moneymaker. And that's why you are seeing, you know, even the leagues tinker with, okay, what is our role in sports betting when it used to, again, be taboo used to be something they used to run away from. And it is drawing more and more people into sports in a really profound way. 80% of people who bet on sports do so

online 'cause it's so accessible. And I would argue that number would be bigger, but not all states have legalized sports gambling in their market yet. So that's going to be something that's only going to continue to grow overall. And what's interesting is we saw in our research what sports fans don't want to be able to replace their fan experience. They're happy to embrace AI when it comes to sports betting, which is really interesting. And 71% would have a positive reaction, their favorite bet

ting platform using AI which is another way where, you know, I think when you look at what AI can do right now, and you look at the, the incredible amounts of data that's coming out, like what Amazon's doing, broadcasting their NFL games, I think they've done a great job with some of their properties of overlaying real-time data and analytics to the fan experience. And if you connect that with something like gaming, I think online gaming I think, or betting, I think that would really even enhanc

e it even further. So AI powered data analytics to evaluate player statistics, nearly half of consumers will be interested in consuming that. So ways to capture fans' attention beyond, the stadium with sports analysis and stats and data, I think is a huge opportunity and certainly one that brands are going to, you know, dig into even further. And you're seeing this across the board, you have platforms like 538, which started off being a analytics and prediction market for political elections, no

w getting into in-game probabilities of what teams can reach the playoffs. And 538 does a great job at publishing an ongoing tracker of percent chance that a team have of making the playoffs or winning a championship. And again, I think that the quantification of data and stats for the sports fans drawing them in, and makes them make them feel even more connected to the game. And then lastly, before we bring on our guests, how brand partnerships and athlete endorsements evolved. Fans now support

athlete endorsements as a way to give back to the athletes themselves. I think with the rise of social media, so many savvy athletes have found ways to A, monetize more during their athletic careers, but also set them up for success when their career ends. You know, many professional athletes, their professional career, you know, does LeBron's and Tom Bradys of the world who play well into their forties, but then most athletes, their careers end in their early thirties and they need to set up a

life for themselves after their professional sports career ends. And many have used their personal brand as a leverage point to get into other ventures. And I think that's a great way and I think it's something that fans are now addressing and realizing it, you know. 61% of fans are more likely to buy product if their favorite athlete endorses it. So fans certainly have value and you know, I think a lot of brands are understanding the power of that, not just on national TV spots. You know, we a

ll know Michael Jordan and Nike kind of pioneered, you know, the notion of the athlete driving product sales, but now it's happening not just on a national basis, but it's happening on a local level. You see local car dealers tapping into their favorite hometown athletes for one to many influencer programs in their local market. So social media has opened up just so much more opportunity for athletes to be able to drive sales of things like shoes and apparel and drinks and all sorts of different

categories. As I mentioned earlier, the NCAA role evolution to allow college athletes to leverage their name, interests, and likeness to actually make money during their college, you know, stint as an athlete has really changed the game. Because what it does is it allows, first of all college athletes, which I believe is only fair to make, get their share of the huge economy around college athletics. Where in the past if they would, you know, be taken to a hundred dollar dinner, they could be s

uspended from playing for their team, which I think I always thought was crazy. And now they have the ability to do that. But it also lets local brands not just be limited to professional athletes, but local college athletes who have big followings, rabid followings amongst their college fans to basically drive their business. So I think it's, you know, the world of sports has opened up so many more now, opportunities for brands based upon all this evolution, and you're really seeing it across t

he board. It doesn't matter what this sport is, there are partnerships that are taking off that are giving both large national brands and local brands the ability to really drive their business. And, you know, this is a huge partnership that happened with Coco Gauff, who just won the Women's US Open. But brands like UPS and New Balance partnered with her you could see the type of response that fans have. They, and they love the fact that Coco's making money, they want to support her and they wan

t to support the products that she supports. So fans will even buy products not because they want them, but ensure the success of their favorite athletes, which I really think is amazing. So I really want to bring in our guests here, because we have such a great audience. So if our guests wouldn't mind joining the stage, it would be great to, to get everyone here. Great. Hello everyone. I'd like to first maybe just go around the horn and just have you each introduce yourselves just for a quick m

inute so everyone knows who you are. I would start with you Jorge. - Hi everyone, I'm Jorge. I'm a sports management consultant and prior to that I was VP of futbol, as in soccer, at a company called Dapper Labs in the digital collectible space and head of funneling strategy and engagement at the NBA in New York City. - Awesome, well thanks for joining and I really want to dive into also the whole NFT space as well. Dapper Labs is kind of a pioneer in that, but we'll dive into that because I'm s

ure you have a lot insights there with your Dapper Labs experience. Michael. - Sure. Good afternoon everyone. Mike Shaw. I look after brand marketing for Miami Dolphins and Formula One, crypto.com, Miami Grand Prix, as well as Miami Open and all events at Hard Rock Stadium. So excited to be here. This would be American football. Jorge has European and World football locked down. - It's a great time to be working for the Dolphins and the Miami Dolphins fans. Probably one of the hottest teams in f

ootball right now for sure. Definitely stealing the headlines. - Yeah, it's exciting probably too- I'd like us to be under the radar a little bit longer, but I will take it. - That's your job, right? - That's right, that's right. - Absolutely. Dustin, great to see you again. - Hey, good to see you, Matt, Dustin Godsey, chief sales and marketing officer for Milwaukee Bucks and Fiserv Forum. So oversee all of our marketing, digital broadcast, and our ticket sales for the Bucks as well as our, our

new arena here in Milwaukee. And deer district, our sort of IRL gathering place for everybody to come together here in the heart of Milwaukee. - Yeah, awesome. Well, let's start with you Dustin. I had the good fortune to visit you at Fiserv Forum earlier this year, and I was really struck by, you know, the wealth of experiences that you've created for fans. And Milwaukee bucks have really emerged, you know, big part of it's because of Giannis Antetokounmpo, who's a global superstar, but also all

the things that I think you and your organization have done to take advantage of the rise of the Milwaukee Bucks. When you look at the community of Milwaukee Bucks fans, both locally and really around the world, what do you really focus on that drive that sense of community and fan engagement year round? - Yeah, I think that's a a good point. I think you mentioned sort of, you know, sort of two audiences there, in that we are sort of this small market in the Midwest with, you know, kind of that

limited ticket buyer base and going through. So we really have to hyper-focus on what those experiences are, and what that connection is to fans when they, to try to drive them into the building. But then, you know, sort of globally and with a star like Giannis, and knowing that when you look at our social traffic and that sort of thing, 75% of our fans are outside of the country. So, you know, what we really focus on is, you know, exactly what you said, that sort of spirit of connection. And t

he way we've done that is, we know when we travel around the world and we play, played preseason games in Abu Dhabi, we played in Paris, we go through. A lot of people know Milwaukee because of the Bucks. They wouldn't have ever even heard of Milwaukee before that. So for us, we take really seriously that idea of being sort of the mouthpiece for Milwaukee and broadcasting to fans, you know, that you are, no matter where you are, you're a part of this, and you belong, in some way, in what we do.

So that, that becomes really our sort of focus and our mantra from a brand standpoint. - Yeah, I mean you had mentioned kind of the brand of Milwaukee and trying to inject what makes that community different into the Milwaukee Bucks fan experience and bring it to life. - Yeah, exactly. When you come into the arena, it is, you know, really a showcase of the Bucks or of Milwaukee, and really the state of Wisconsin, and we take that very seriously of, again, even whether you are, you know, a diehar

d fan who's coming all the time and being a part of it, you are a part of this larger community. And so we want to showcase, you know, we could showcase lots of entertainment acts and we do as we go through, but really creating these intentional platforms with which to, you know, maybe educate people about other communities within, you know, within their community, right? And where we look at our theme nights or our impact nights to really be able to make sure that we're telling those stories ab

out our local people, and making fans feel like they're a part of something larger. - Absolutely. And Michael, we were recently together in Miami and when we were there you were telling me just, you know, given the rise of Miami really as a, not just a tourist destination, but now so many more people from spots like New York are moving there to live there, kind of the, makeup of the people who live in Miami and as a byproduct the fan base of Miami sports has changed over time. How are you lookin

g at your go-to-market strategy for the various products you oversee, to kind of adjust for that? - Yeah, probably Matt separate each line of business. So Formula One might be different than Dolphins. Dolphins different than Miami Open. But that being said, there's some overlap. And I think obviously if you think about it, I would break down our brands, you know, the Dolphins are obviously mature, established brand, but the other two are very much challenger brands in terms of still learning, de

fining audience, still very much seeking and growing those audiences. And so I would tell you that if you are a football fan, and even if my goal would be is that I'm not so much worried about the hardcore Philadelphia Eagles fan who's come down and moved from Philly. I, but I don't, I'm not so much worried about the dad or the mom, but I do want the kids, I guess I should preface it, I want the kids to be a fan, right? - Right. - I want the kids to be a fan of the team because they're going to

grow up here in south Florida. Their parents might have grown up in Delaware, Philadelphia or New York, but they're going to grow up here in South Florida. And so we want to be the team of those who have moved the imports. We want them to be, we want to be their, team of their children. 'Cause that's, we know who's really driving the decisions to buy what and to go where, when the kids want to go, then you got to go. Yeah. So that, that's one piece. The other piece I would say that matter real q

uickly is that because of the changing fan base, there's different segments. You talked about ticket pricing and some of your data findings, and so we had to be really conscious about one, finding ways to keep some ticket price normalized, but also there's a growing segment of luxury as well that we certainly want to attach because people come to Miami looking to experience what they perceive as Miami, you know, life. And so we want to be able to offer that, give the look and feel of what Miami

and South Florida is. So we want to provide that as well. - So it sounds like it's kind of a balance between appealing to the high-end luxury buyer and providing experiences that meet their needs, but also making it accessible for the families for, you know, the everyday fans so you can keep that rabid fan base intact. - I think that's right and it doesn't always, I think you covered it well. It doesn't always result in a game day, right. It may be a tour, it may be being out in the community an

d bringing the players to them. - Right. - And so, there's a lot of different ways to do that as an organization we try to be flexible in how we do that. - Yeah, and Jorge, given some of the trends that I just went over in the presentation, what do you think some of the biggest drivers are in the industry of sports that are really changing it, and if you were overseeing a team, where would you be spending your time focusing on? - Well, I mean, I think global football teams, or global brands, not

just football, but almost any sport, the NBA, et cetera. I mean they face this dichotomy of fandom where they have local fan bases that are very strong and have a deep knowledge of the team history, and culture, and their players, and also the opportunity to attend games. So there's a very close touch point with the brand that's available. And then increasingly, and I think that the, with Giannis. is a great example, a global fan base who, you know, 99% of them are never going to be able to att

end a game and they may lack, you know, that nuanced understanding of what that club means, that team means, or where Milwaukee is, right? And so how do you drive a cohesive go-to market strategy targeting both types of funds, both segments and you know, I think that's really the challenge that they have. And my answer to that is data. And really segmentation is something that Mike alluded to already, but I see teams making big investments in data capture, really understanding their funds better

. And not just data capture, but data intelligence. Who are they? How do they transact with my team, with my product? Is it through merchandising? Do they play fantasy? Do they place bets? Do they actually come to games? Do they play gaming related to the sport? What kind of content they consume related to that sport? And then based on that, what can I offer so that they deepen their engagement with my brand? And there's a lot of testing and experimentation required to go down that path. You kno

w, you first need to have that single view of the fan where you're gathering all that information you need to make sense of it. And then you need to start making small bets, let's try this and let's see how this works with this given segment. Let's see what we learn, refine, and then move on. And so that's a really complicated and long process and I think that's where most global organizations find themselves right now. - Yeah, and Dustin, we discussed that in the past where, I know you've inves

ted a lot in the app, the Milwaukee Bucks app in various different ways to gain that first party data. Can you tell us a little bit about some of your efforts in that area? - Yeah, no, for sure. That has been a big, big piece and especially as far, I said that's where we've really invested over time and you know, really everything we're doing is understanding at that transaction level what our, and not even transaction, but just, you know, behavioral level, what our fans are doing. So we've inve

sted to try to make our app piece sort of that single point of truth, and sort of that remote control a little bit for the Bucks experience. Whether you're watching at home, whether you are, you know, in Greece or if you're in the building and it's your way to get into the building with your ticket there. We've gone to, you know, very extensive use of that is in mobile ordering. Even before Covid we were heading down that path of how do we reduce lines and solve a problem for our fans in the bui

lding, but also start to understand a little bit more at that transaction level, you know, what our fans are doing and how can we then use that information to push them to, you know, change their behaviors, or spend more, or interact in other ways. So that's been a big piece for us. And I think, you know, Jorge mentioned, you know, it's now starting to figure out how we, now, there's so much data and you know, you can take in so much. And I think like for us, when we talk about AI and things lik

e that, like I think that's where those tools start to become really interesting in how you can really start looking at customer journey mapping, and get to a point where you're really, you know, hitting people with the message that they want at that time. Because it can be, you know, be careful what you wish for a little bit in terms of data collection because you can have so much there and then get to a point where you don't have the resources to really use it. - Right. Analysis paralysis, so

to speak. - For sure. - Yeah, I think it's focusing on what are those key pieces of the data that drive your strategy and kind of just weeding out the noise besides that. - Yep. Absolutely. - Yeah, so, and Michael, one thing we'd also discussed beyond just data and the importance of it is just the importance of when you're marketing a team of sports property, it's obviously about the team and the experience, but ultimately it's also about the athletes. And you had talked about when we were last

together, just the importance of bringing the athlete story front and center, so people have a more emotional connection with the team. And I'd love for you, for our audience, to talk a little bit more about that and the areas you're leaning into in that regard. - Yeah, I think we're very fortunate, right? So I've had opportunity, much like the other gentleman on the panel, to work in a couple different facets. And so it's always more fun when you have some personalities, when you have people on

your team, that the fans are interested in. It's always, it makes your job a lot easier. But there are challenges that challenges with that. And I would say when you look at our current team, we have a number of personalities, the number of players that kind of generate their own attention. And so where I would like our team and what we try to do as a marketing and overall business operation is rather than try to police the guys about what they can and can't do, how do we set up kind of knowled

ge sharing so that when whether they're sharing on their own social, how do we set them up for success? So if they're looking for images right after a game, we provide them with their images, we provide them with the content so that one, so that they can share on their platforms. 'cause Matt, you talked one about how athletes kind of leverage their career post plans, so we want to be an avenue to help them do that. And then on to your direct question, what do we do? What are the things that we c

an do now to make sure with those imagery, with that imagery, with those images, how we get closer to players, how the players get closer to their audience. And so I think we can do both. In addition to that, like it's also important that everything that we do, we want to make sure one, you get closer to the player to understand them beyond the field, beyond the lines, right? And I think there are a lot of ways we talk about YouTube and reels in order to do that, but you know, at this point we'r

e curious to know beyond like the cereal or the food you're eating, like what, where you shop for sneakers, what do you like to do when you're not playing the game? Like what things make you who you are when you're not actually being great at your sport? And so we want to try to tell those stories in such a compelling way where there is some real humanization and you're not just a superhero on the field, but you're also the person who does and shops just like I do. - Yeah, I mean we saw in the N

FL this weekend, with Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey, I mean 400% increase in jersey sales of Travis Kelsey because the casual fan or the Taylor Swift fan, which she probably has an audience just as big as the NFL itself at this point. You know, when you those two worlds collide, then you bring in more casual fans, right? So, I don't know if you had thoughts on that or, because that would, that's been, I mean, Sports Center, that's all they were talking about this week, which is, it's crazy to s

ee that happen. - Well listen, as an employee of the Miami Dolphins, I actually don't want all the attention on us. I'd like for us to continue to fly under the radar. So I was really excited to hear about Taylor Swift because the more they talk about Taylor Swift, the less they're talking about us scoring 70 points. Wow. That was phenomenal, right? - Yeah. - What I would say is I think there's a happy medium because also, like I would imagine, I don't know, I haven't talked to CMO for the Chief

s, but there's a happy medium that we always have to consider. 'Cause we have so many celebs who come because they live in Miami, right? And so you want to try, allow the player or the celebrity to kind of help drive, and so that you can focus on like the sport and allow it to organically happen even though sometimes it's kind of contrived and constructed behind the scenes. It's most impactful when it seems really organic, even if you're helping to drive it. And so I like to think about how we c

an have, like, if she comes back to a game, I would definitely, you know, I wouldn't doubt she probably wears a jersey or something next time she comes to the Chiefs game. - Of course, of course. - Maybe the chiefs game when they play us in Germany in a few weeks. - Yeah. - It's becoming a trend and not just about Taylor Swift, but I'm thinking about Leonel Messi, and the other Miami team and kind of like his games and you know, having seen like Serena Williams and LeBron James and a number of o

ther incredible players just going to watch a soccer game from MLS, I think it's really impressive and I think it's, you know, it has to become part of the toolkit right now of a team CMO to figure out, hey, how do we engineer these opportunities and how do we capitalize on them to actually drive the brand of my team? You know, because it feels like if we merge sports and broader culture, you know, we get virality and that really helps us. - Agree. - Yeah. I mean it's story, it's storytelling, i

sn't it? Ultimately your job is to tell a story. And you know, Dustin, we had talked about it's easy to tell a story when you have a, you know, one of the great all-time players and you're winning championships. Less easy when you're part of a team that isn't. But ultimately, is it fair to say your job as a CMO of a sports team is to find the stories within your team regardless of how good or bad, if things might be on the field or on the court? - It is a hundred percent. And you know, when I go

t to Milwaukee, my second year where we won 15 games, so, you know, that was a year where we didn't have, we weren't getting the natural attention of people just looking for championship basketball. It was, you know, and in some ways it, you're able to be a little bit more creative sometimes in what you're doing and how you're digging and it, it forces you to look for some of those smaller things. But I think regardless of that, you know, our job as marketers is not only to find those stories an

d find those ways to, you know, push that out, but also, you know, how do we capitalize on that? And we all know sports is a very cyclical thing and you're going to have up years, you're going to have down years, and it's how you find those things during the good years to maximize it and capitalize it on at the time. But also then the challenging part of that is, how do you make sure that you're using that to insulate you some in some of those softer times, right? And how do you make sure bottom

not as low as it it could be otherwise? And, how are you, you know, in our case, how are we, taking a, you know, generational superstar like Giannis and using, you know, working with him to not just, you know, turn people into Giannis fans, and using our content to turn people into Giannis fans, but turn those Giannis fans into box fans, right? And I think that's the challenge. - Yeah, it's a catalyst. You're using this superstar to bring more eyeballs to the team, to the community. And then ho

pefully they'll love, 'cause real fans, diehard fans will stick with their team in good times and bad. I know, I do. So if you can use the good times the way to bring more fans in and get them to love the jersey and love the experience and love the team, ultimately, then you'll create lifelong fans. - And how do you avoid the, you know, the messy experience of him leaving at the 37th minute, and the stadium emptying out, right? Because you, that's the other side of the celebrity in those sorts o

f moments, is making sure that, that's attached to the team as well. - Yeah, and in terms of the NBA, we've seen that where now you're reading stories about, you know, the NBA threatening to, you know, fine teams for benching superstars too much when they're not hurt. And I totally get that. You know, I remember being at a Brooklyn Nets game where, you know, the Nets bench, LeBron and Anthony Davis, and then the next night they played at Madison Square Garden and they all played. But you see the

se people bringing their family and buying tickets six months in the advance to see LeBron play and he doesn't play, and you're sitting there, you don't get a refund. You know, and that's, I guess that's kind of how it goes, but you kind of understand that at the same time, right? - Yeah. - Because I don't think on one hand teams it's hard, and I don't expect either of you guys to comment on this, but you know, on one hand, you know, you expect teams to leverage the athletes to drive their busin

ess but then show up and the athletes aren't there, then what about the fans? So I think it, but it's hard. But at the same time, I understand why, why some teams have their athletes on pitch counts. 'cause ultimately they want to win a title. So it kind of goes. - I'm grateful we play once a week, Matt. We don't play two or three times a week, so we- - Exactly. - We can avoid a lot of that. - They said the NFL has, although at the end of the season, the NFL teams will sometimes bench stars befo

re the playoffs as well, so they kind of deal with that more towards the end of the season versus throughout the season. - Yep. Yeah. - Jorge, one thing I talked a lot about, and I'm asking you this question because I know that it's also a touchy subject for people who work for the teams or for the league is about gaming, and the rise of gaming in sports and how that has impacted the fan experience. I would love your thoughts on that. - Gaming or betting specifically? - Betting. Betting. Betting

, yeah. - Betting, okay. Yeah, I mean, look, I think the perspective that I think Adam Silver was the first, he wrote an oped to the New York Times, I think seventeen years ago, et cetera. The perspective that they took was this is something that existed and rather than having it in an unregulated environment and in the dark, let's bring it to light, let's set rules about it, let's- - Right. - Have some very clear structure and let's capitalize on that revenue opportunity and it will be good for

the league, the team, and the players. And so, you know, even if it's been historically a touchy subject, you know, I think that that's the approach and it's very rational and it kind of makes sense. What it means really for the leagues is just another opportunity to engage fans and either to monetize existing fans through a new opportunity. And there's clearly an agenda between fantasy and betting. The NBA has long had fantasy partnerships and- - Yeah. - You know, and, and they have more, some

of them are NFT bases now with solder they had Yahoo. - It's interesting because there really is no difference, right? I mean, it's just a different form factor of gambling, fantasy sports ultimately. - I mean there's no skin in the game other than the work that you put on. But you put on very significantly, very significant work that sometimes these players spend hours figuring out what their lineups are. - Well, there are fees to join the fantasy league and there's also ones where it could be

as much as a hundred thousand dollars join a fantasy league. So that's there is for forms of fantasy sports where there's skin in the game for sure. - True. - Yeah. - And so, you know, for, I think for the leagues, it was an opportunity to again, monetize that, to bring in new partners and new sponsors. So a clear revenue opportunity and also to get another touch point in this single view of the fund, that allows them to truly try to engage those fans and as much as they can, which is, and buil

d those direct relationships with fans is the future of I think every sports organization. - Absolutely. So shifting gears a little bit, I know one way that a lot of teams earn revenue is also through partnerships with brands. And I'm just curious kind of what goes into partnerships. If we could start with you, Dustin, in terms of when a brand wants to become a partner of the Milwaukee Bucks, you know, are you vetting that brand and how are you looking at opportunities where it's mutually benefi

cial both for the team and the fan experience, but as well as the brand itself so that it can be a successful business venture? - Yeah, I mean we, and we work really closely on the marketing side with our partnership development, partnership development team to, you know, when they're going out, whether it's them coming to us and saying, Hey, what is a, you know, tool that would be useful? What is something that you guys are looking for that would help your world to help expand our universe? You

know, are there partners we go after there? Or simply, you know, them going out and pitching saying, you know, this is what we're trying to do. We're very intentional about the fact that as I think most teams are now, we don't sell sponsorships, we sell partnerships. And if a company is looking to us as simply a way to get engagement and eyeballs and go through and as sort of an advertising platform, they're probably not the right partner for us. If they want to be involved with the Bucks brand

and how we do things and really integrate things, and understand, you know, when we were out looking for a naming rights partner, we found a, you know, local company that was technology driven that, you know, for us could really tell this story about, you know, building our community and going through that. That worked really, really well. I think, you know, so for us that is, you know, brand fit is a big piece of what we do. And if there's brand fit and, and both sides understand the stories a

nd who their customers are, then the sponsorship checks are going to follow through with that. - Yeah. - But at the end of the day, if you don't have that then you're, you know, two years down the road, three years down the road, going to be in the middle of a very ugly renewal process of, you know, you guys didn't hit because they weren't really part of what we were trying to do. - Right. More transactional, they're writing you a check for eyeballs, more like you're a publisher versus a team, t

hat you want to create some type of partnership. - Michael, do you have similar thoughts in terms of how, you know, your properties work with brands? - I think Dustin's spot on. I would only add that it's also a critical component like community. Like there's, it's most important that we understand. You could say a partner like I'll name a brand like Verizon, you may think, well they're looking at telecom, they're looking at digital. But it may be for them and having a kind of a meeting that for

them what's most important is them being in communities or underserved communities. So I think it's really important. I think Dustin talks about brand fit to understand core priorities and understand core values, to be honest, to make sure there's alignment between both organizations and I a hundred percent agree that so that they are getting what they're looking for. But it's a two way street that we make sure that beyond getting compensation, for allowing the brand to be a part of the organiz

ation, it's understanding kind of really who they are and what's important to them so that we deliver what we deliver. - Absolutely. So let's talk about the new fan and then I want to kind of go around the room and do some future predictions from all three of you as, as we wrap up here. But in terms of Gen Z, obviously it's the future sports fan. Gen Z is the first generation to grow up with a phone in the household, while millennials or Gen Y was first generation to grow up with internet in the

household. So the consumers continually evolving. And obviously for both Michael and Dustin to be successful with their franchise in the future, they need to understand this new fan and not be stuck in how fans used to consume sports. 'Cause it's much different as we've gone over, in the past hour, today. As we look at a new fan, Jorge, what are some of the emerging trends you're seeing in terms of how the younger fans want to engage with sports and the teams that they love? - Yeah, it's very d

ifferent from an old guy like me. It's a bit scary I would say. But, you know, I'd say there's, a few trends that I'm going to, that I'm going to point out. One is I think there's more loyalty to players than to teams in general, especially- - Is that a good thing overall? - I mean that's something that we're definitely seeing and you know, I think you have to figure out how to market around that. I think partially because of the disposable income that younger fans have, but also for other reaso

ns they are less likely to go to a lot of games. They're very picky in terms of the games that they decide to go to. They go to a game for a reason, they want to see a player. - Right - And there's something specific about it, but they're not someone who's going to go to a lot of games. And I think there's also a fixation on the more cultural, you know, aspects of the game. It could be about fashion and sneakers and you know, how a team or a player helps establish my identity and express that to

the outside world or it could be out something else. But, you know, music, it's another big adjacent area. - Yeah. Big touch point. Right. - Yeah, but it's less about the X and Os of the game or the, you know, the loyalty to a club. And I think to attract those fans you really need to understand them and speak to them through those touch points and in a language that they can understand. - Dustin, I know some of that hits home with you 'cause you've got, I know you've done a big fashion oriente

d partnership at the arena. Would love to hear ways that like that and other ways you're looking at the younger fan. - Yeah, I think, you know, to Jorge's point, it's not just about about the team anymore and that continues, you know, kind of the theme through this of, you know, how do you develop that into sort of that long lasting fandom. But we've certainly gotten into, and the NBA is is very into, you know, the sort of fashion show of guys coming in, and what the walk-ins look like, and that

's branded content. And we have, you know, we created our own private label retail line in the last year where we're collaborating with, you know, people outside of the sports world and inside, but you know, local artists, local street wear designers, you know, that sort of thing to create sort of that cultural, you know, brand and identity around it, and find those other touchpoints. I think, you know, one thing that to me still seems consistent with, you know, the younger fans and going throug

h is they still want, and maybe even more so an experience. And so the day of game or whatever that experience is our concert business, you know, that sort of thing, they're still looking for that sense of connection. And I think even more so, you know, to your deck Matt, like it is still that opportunity that people have to get together and what has become a even more sort of isolated world of, you know, being on screens and go through like that experience still matters. I think it's just we ha

ve to catch up and be ahead of, you know, what, how they're consuming it and what that is because, you know, I can tell you from you, even beyond Gen Z, having a gen alpha or whatever you, you want to call the next one in my house, you know, he's not sitting and watching a two and a half hour game. But he's as big a Bucks fan as as I know, right? - Right. - So, it's just a difference in how they're consuming it. - Absolutely. Michael, would you agree on any other points as you're looking consume

r? - Yeah, I was going to say completely agree. It's still about building community, like they still want to gather. I think it's just about the type of product, so right? So it might be a gathering place versus traditional seating, right? It might be somewhere where they can come be interesting. They may not even be watching the field. They might want to be inside a bar or inside a space. There are going to be more areas where you can capture on social, where they take selfies than where, where

they can share where they are with their other friends who can't be there, where they can have the type of wifi and broadband experience so that they can FaceTime with ease, right? So they can show where they are easily. - Yeah. - But I think it's still about community. It's still those fundamental things, even though some of them, I agree with what Jorge said as well. And so it's still gathering, it's still experiential and it's still wanting to be able to showcase where you are so that you ca

n show others where you are. - Yeah, I mean, I'll piggyback on that if I can a little bit. I mean, one of the things that we've done, and as you talked about at the game, matched around ticket prices and the ability for younger fans and that sort of thing to go to games, you know, we do a, we've, you know, even through, you know, as certainly our ticket prices have gone up and you win a championship and that sort of thing. But we've maintained a really, really strong student program where, you k

now, every game we're offering day of game, you know, tickets out to local college students and that sort of thing. It significantly reduced prices just to be able to, get them in and go through and- But one of the things with that is a majority of the time these are SRO tickets. So like they're just, they're paying to get into the building and it's, you know, maybe 25, 30 bucks that, you know, for a big game that they're paying to get in. Even when we do give them tickets, they don't often sit

in the seats. They're up, you know, gathering in the bars and restaurants, and locations. - Right. - Some of those community areas. So, I mean, I think it just illustrates Michael's point. It's about different ways of doing that. Even though they're looking to be at the game. - In some ways, that extends your ability to market and promote experiences. 'Cause you're not limited to just the amount of seats that you can put warm butts in the house. Right? You can extend that. - Yep. Sure. - Awesome

. So to wrap up here, and this has been amazing, and I cannot wait for more people to see this. We're going to be streaming this to a wider audience, which is going to be great. So with an eye towards the future, and I'd like to go around the horn here, starting with Michael, what, where do you think just fandom and the sports experience will evolve in the next five to 10 years? What are some of the main, I guess, predictions you have on how sports will evolve, if anything comes to mind? So let'

s start with you, Michael, in terms of where you think things are going, what trends you have your eye on more specifically. - Well, I think you call it gaming, where I would call it betting or whatever. - Yeah. - But I think to the extent we get more information about the athletes real time, I think that's where I see, so obviously wearables is already a big thing. Everybody's got some type of watch device, but to understand heart rate, speed, those things in real time so you can make decisions

. So you can see with as progression, this player runs this fast in the first quarter, but in the fourth quarter their speed's a little- - Right. - Little slower. So I just think in, as you look with the intelligence with AR, VR, like everything that we have, I would say that to understand what the athletes are experiencing in game is going to continue to get, you get more information about them as well as the fact that I just went through a Amazon no checkout, no touch, like I'm going to get mo

re information about what the customer's doing, and I'll get more information about what the athletes are doing on the field. - Yeah. We've seen Google run the ads. We were talking about this before the NFL games were, when the players walk in, now there's a way through Google search to see what are they wearing, where can I buy it? So that's another example of bringing the data to life about an athlete, not necessarily on the field performance, but off the field fashion that gets fans through t

o the game as well. - That's right, that's right. - Yeah. - Dustin, any thoughts on where we're headed? - No, I mean, I think Michael hit a lot of it, but I think it's going to be continued to, you know, how do we use technology not just to be sort of the next new thing, but how are we, using it to solve some of these problems that we're all talking about, right? How do we really start to get to a point where, you know, it, I'm actually heartened to see that, you know, your survey showed that pe

ople don't want to watch games through VR goggles and that sort of thing. They still want the actual experience, but I think, you know, we will get to the point where we're being able to make the experience more connected for fans that outside of the 17,000 that are in our building, how do we start to take that experience out a little bit more? And where technology fits into that. So to me it's how we expand those experiences that's going to be key. - Absolutely, and then wrap up. Jorge, any fin

al thoughts on where we're headed? - Yeah, I mean, all of the above. And you know, I would say to take it a little bit farther, that the actual rules and and nature of the games and the sports that we're discussing is going to have to change as well. You know, we were saying that two and a half hour broadcast, you know, it's hard to watch for a lot of people, we've seen baseball introduce changes- - New rule, yeah - To the game clock. I mean, I think Formula One, I was a Formula One fan in 2001

and believe me, it was different from what we're seeing today. They've actually changed a lot of things with the qualifying, no refueling, et cetera. And you know, when it comes to other sport, you're going to see more and more transformation. There's something in European futbol, in Spain, called the Kings League. I don't know if people have heard about it, but it's this kind of like stream on Twitch, influencer driven football league where people have secret weapons that they can use and they

can suddenly bring an extra player and do all kinds of things that makes it look more like a game than football. This is just an example, we're going to see, I think, changes to the games as we know them as a result of, you know, accommodating this new demographic and this new form of consumption. And so that is my prediction. - Love that. Awesome. Well, we're out of time here. This discussion could go on forever. But I want to be cognizant of how busy everyone's schedule is. So I just want to t

hank all three of you. This has been an amazing panel and I cannot wait for more people to see this and just super appreciative the support. And best of luck to Michael and Dustin, both of your teams for the current and upcoming season for you, Dustin, and we'll be tracking your continued success. So thanks to everybody, Jorge, Dustin, and Michael for joining today, and we'll see everyone soon. So until next time, take care everyone. Bye-bye. - Thank you. - Thanks guys.