Why Boys Transition | Uniquely Undefined | Detrans Awareness Day 24

right so today I am speaking to uniquely defined who is on Twitter under the same name uh we're not going to use full names for obvious reasons but um just so everyone knows um I am uh familiar with uniquely defined and uh we we we have had other conversations so you might pick that up in in the conversation that we're having now um we're going to talk about some stuff related to um male transition male detransition so biological males uh and their experience um uniquely defined uh specific expe

rience uh around some of these topics and what what does that actually mean so uh we we might uh as we were just discussing we might end up somewhere we didn't expect so I just hope that's okay with everybody listening but yeah we're going to try and keep it to 1 hour just for those that are planning for the next um hour of their lives um obviously you can come back to this so so uniquely defined I'm G to just keep calling you that for the sake of this a lot of people will shorten it to Unique s

o I guess that would be fine good okay okay okay unique so obviously I know you as something else but um so unique um just to be clear this is for the the 12th of March drron Awareness Day 2024 and if I can just say just just two minutes just if I can just say I think what's happened is there's a lot of politics that's come into this issue and um you know on the one level we engage with the politics um because obviously that influences all of this but on the other hand the thing that that kind o

f got me involved directly this year was the fact that I was worried that the victims of the medicalization of trans and of gender G distressed people or gender dysphoric people or whatever we're going to call them I mean I'm not going to bicker about that you know the point being that um I think it's it's scared a lot of detransition is off because of the political atmosphere if you you just go on X or Twitter you'll see that there's just everyone's slinging mud at everyone else you know so you

know what it is is that a lot of people have their own agendas and they' found this to be a strong way that they can shoehorn their own attitudes into this you know a lot of people will start with oh we've got to help these people and also wouldn't it be great if abortion didn't exist or like you know yeah they've got a reason to latch on to this and uh you know that happens with most political debates at some point is that everything gets skewed really I I agree with what you were saying the r

eason that I even spoke out about this in the first place is because for me it's a medical problem people's lives are being affected they are Vics in right they are they're victims of a medical system that is not properly handling their care and beyond that I think everything else is is you know you can carry on a debate about these other things separately I think this issue needs to be wrapped up we need to make sure that people are getting proper Medical Care yeah I want to just add just becau

se and I think you know what I'm going to say but the the male issue and I can I can see people muting and and and disconnecting and and throwing their phones across the room already um so the male uh issue exists in many other Arenas of of the the public discourse okay the male psychology issue the male suicide rate uh male anorexia is very much ignored um um uh what are what are the other things the male sexuality is often misunderstood um and you and I uh unique are entering this this this pa

rticular uh um crisis the trans iatrogenic harm from medicalization um uh from the perspective obviously as men and I am very much involved in in male psychology I practice a particular um style of of counseling um which is male friendly or male psychology friendly because so even if I'm dealing with females it's still part of my you know my processing um but there's something called gamma bias which um I I want to just point out to people you can Google this this is a very well studied uh bias

that that has been identified which is essentially um that in in the public sphere male behavior is vilified and anything males do gets categorized as well people did all this good stuff but when men do bad things it's you know men did XYZ so it's a it's a very public um bias it's something that's not um isolated to certain individuals so now how that translates is to this particular issue is that males who transition are automatically labeled you name it everything and I know we're going to tal

k about that now and then males who de transition usually are likewise they're they're subject to the same bias so basically males can do no good ever wherever they go just to obviously there's certain people that are more aware of this and they work against it obviously um but this this can be seen um in if you just Google Gamma bias you'll find an explanation um from Martin Seager and John Barry from the male psychology Network in the UK all right so this is a very well studied thing um and I

think for me it certainly explains a lot of things that are happening and um I would just say that um please refrain from from criticizing what I've just said unless you've actually gone and looked at the video and looked at the the study that they did to to identify this bias um if you don't if you don't agree with the study that's fine then then then that's a different conversation but for me um having worked in a a crisis call center in South Africa for for the year of 2022 um part of 2021 an

d 2022 um it was evident it was immediately evident okay and you know I don't want to criticize the people that I worked with because they didn't really realize what they were doing but the fact is when a male in distress uh comes up he comes up through a call or he comes up in a video or he walks into the room even um our bias is to look for danger what we go is this man is going to be dangerous so you saw that recently um with the Samaritans advert that went around um a lot of people took that

Samar this is in the UK by the way unique um some people listening might know what I'm talking about but basically it was a it was an advert to to encourage people to make small talk and unfortunately they chose a a woman sitting alone at a at a at a train station bench talking to a man who looked well you see this is this is where already the gamma bias comes in because a lot of people say he looked Disturbed and what Samaritans was trying to predict was a man who looked sad those are two very

different things um and even though Samaritans in in this production they made a point of putting a safety officer in the scene in the clip in broad daylight at a train station in England you know this isn't on the on the the frontiers of of Sudan that we're talking about here you know and all Samaritans were saying is a little bit of small talk could actually save someone's life because why because you're practicing Humanity all right and anyway I just wanted to introduce this particular recor

ding with that idea because this is where um unique I I know you probably haven't um unpa it in such detail but I think this is where you and I connect is that we understand that that is what what we and a lot of men are dealing with um in the in the public discourse as I said so comment on that yeah I can tell you as a m d transitioner and from what I hear from others that one thing that we come up against immediately is that um a large segments of the push against uh transition or in the form

that it is the kind of medicalization that we have is actually coming from radical feminist groups and I actually you know historically have gener L supported feminism what I found is that many of these groups however um it seems like there is a a certain distrust that we immediately face uh and I I I've described it before as to them we're we're like reformed offenders um because they've they've got a narrative I can't remember I think it was Christina button who talked about this a while back

and it it really hit me that she had she had gotten what was going on their narrative is is carefully crafted to um to make people who transition out to be essentially criminals um they're doing it for predatory reasons the whole purpose is to take advantage of so on the main the main the women are victims of something else right women are always victims the men Predators they're evil yeah there's this tendency to lean away from ever seeing men as victims of this and I I think that's really um I

understand why they're doing it it's an effective way to um gain support for a cause that is trying to protect spaces to protect certain point separations good point and I understand how especially on the outside looking at it from that perspective this can seem seem like the only thing that's going on is that we have some people who are vulnerable women who are fighting against people who are trying to take their safety away I understand how that looks like a whole bunch of bad bad Predator pe

ople um yeah but when it comes to D transitioners who are people who have been hurt by medicalization a lot of the time there it's it's almost impossible to predict what led up to what happened to them many of them have gone through trauma many of have had lifelong issues that have not been properly treated and that's where I really wish that we could talk about this as purely a medical issue because men and women are being harmed by this they're being victimized by this and I think the men part

is getting dropped some of the time so I agree with that I didn't like I'm just going to say I didn't necessarily come here like I want to like fight for for men's rights as d transitioners I know you didn't when you bring it up I definitely agree with what you're saying that men are definitely being left out of this in terms of uh being seen as victims of this well I find you see the thing is I find with a lot of men the men are not aware you know we have a very pragmatic approach in general t

alking about men in general okay obviously I'm generalizing here guys um but we have a very pragmatic approach so what we go is well we just need to focus on what needs to be done done okay and what we do is often to our detriment is we neglect what has been done that gets us to where we are now that we have to find some new Solutions and that's what a lot of the work that I do with men or related to men is is around that problem is that well you can't understand what needs to be done if you don

't understand how this actually happened in the first place so the vilification of of okay I know now we're talking specifically about male males who detransition males who transition and then males who detransition retain that same stigma that we that we that we just described you know and then just from a technical Point unique I don't want to bore everybody but for my own sake I need to just include this idea that you know adverse childhood experiences um is well studied it's well understood

there's a there's a defined list of child adverse childhood experiences that we know have certain outcomes in adulthood or certain challenges that will be created in adulthood so we cannot talk about these things without acknowledging that there's already pre-existing psychology that explains many of these behaviors um the the the need to transition the need to change one's identity The Need to Escape responsibility The Need to Escape masculinity The Need to Escape femininity okay we're going to

obviously in this session we're going to f focus on males and masculinity because we are two men talking about the issue okay but obviously um adverse childhood experiences affect girls possibly more um than than boys but nevertheless it affects boys as well and boys are going to carry that into adulthood and they're going to develop uh addictions they're going to develop um uh they're going to want to transition they're GNA like I had when I was younger they're going to develop anorexia um oft

en doesn't even get mentioned in context of this of this particular issue and I know um there was a group of D transitioner male detransitioners that I was dealing with a while ago who all said that in eating disorder was um was in their lives before they transition so that's an example of that often not always but sometimes um anorexia comes from adverse childhood experiences as well so I just want to say there's very well-known psychology behind what we're talking about today but but carry on

because I know there's some stuff that you wanted to get to today well you know I I think I'm gonna crack the can open on the AGP thing right away since we're kind of already getting into this area of men being vilified in in the dtrans community and and I want to say also before I say that it's not just dtrans people many people who are transitioning are they're us right they're us before we detransitioned and they're in positions where they're transitioning and it's going to go very badly for

them and my heart goes out to them I'm you know the reason why I talk about this is because I don't want more people who have to go through what I went through so you know when people say that people who transition or people who identify as trans are all really bad people evil Predators I I really think what you're doing is you're pushing them further into something where they're going to be self Haring essentially and furthermore a lot of that is going to bleed out a lot of that self harm is go

ing to hurt people around them people in their families and things like that and that that kind of thing that collateral damage when a person is is experiencing perhaps mental health problems things like that needs greater reports that's not like that person choosing to hurt others that's that person having a crisis um so you know I I really think that this not only is dtrans people because I think there's this tendency when people hear dtrans activism to go like oh these are the good ones and t

he trans people the transitioners they are the bad ones not all of them really not all of them and and I'm even willing to concede that there may be some people who actually are uh transsexual in some way that that this may be good for them I'm not going to talk about that too much because I tend to not want to uh you know after what happened to me it's hard for me to relate to that or even believe that that that will always be the case but I'm open to that being possible yeah yeah yeah I think

there's a difference between having having an open mind which acknowledges that we don't know everything and also knowing what you know absolutely you know you can do both but to get back to the AGP thing I think one of the things that comes up in the discourse quite a lot when it comes to vilification is the concept that the usual motivation for transition for men is autogynephilia the paraphilia or the fetish for uh viewing yourself as a or imagining yourself as a woman um and I actually think

that this is an element of what many people uh who are transitioning are experiencing but what I think is being misunder OD is that there are degrees so what I think is first important for people to get is that we are okay first of all there is there is an alternate version of this called Auto androphilia which does exist for women who are in the trans Community I I'm going to tell you right now I've been in the community I know the dtrans people I'm not saying anyone specifically but there are

lots of people in and out of the trans Community who Auto androphilic women yeah right yeah I know I know I've spoken to some of them yeah it's not front and center and there's a very good reason for that because there's a difference between male and female sexuality when you are male your sexuality is generally going to be front and center especially when you were young especially when you were going through that teen period or that puberty period And so this consumes a large part of your psyc

hology but it doesn't cons it is not not the only part of your psychology right it just gets hooked into it so what I think a lot of people are failing to see is that when you have say a fetish or a paraphilia or a sexual uh interest or Draw that isn't your entire personality right there are cases where that can occur where it can be so consuming in your personality that it becomes an issue and that's what we call a disordered par Elia or a or a um uh what was the term um it's it's clinical um b

ut we'll go with disordered um there is another term that I'm not thinking of right now um but essentially when you have that it it is a problem for you it is causing you serious problems it's a fixation it's a problem for others sometimes and in in those cases uh it it it is it it can be a serious issue but there are going to a lot be a lot more people in fact the majority of people are going to experience fetishes paraphilia things like that in a much more mundane much more uh benign way um an

d it's not generally going to threaten people around them it's not generally going to threaten even them but I think there is this Handover where because there are actually it's a fairly common paraphilia for men to have Auto gilia because there is this this experience that some men have um where not only do they have personal reasons psychological reasons trauma reasons whatever um maybe they're a feminite men maybe they're not maybe they are are jealous of women who knows what it is but there

are reasons why they might have a tendency to uh uh imagine being female and there are reasons why this might have become sexualized during their development because again it's healthy for males to have a fairly High sexuality during their developmental stages and so sexuality tends to get hooked into a lot of things that carry on with this in life yeah so what I'm getting at is that um for because the uh trans Community has now pushed this idea that if you ever think about being the opposite se

x if you ever even entertain idea you might be trans you know because there are these very strong sort of traps these incentives to see yourself as Trans in this discourse um there are going to be a lot of people who have a passing relationship with with this kind of paraphilia who may be more or less hooked into it who are going to begin to see themselves in this gender lens and the problem with that is that once you go down that Road things start building it's it's actually kind of sexist phil

osophy the more you start seeing things through gender the more you start thinking of yourself um in in ways that that preclude other ways of viewing right you start imagining your your your life only through this lensch uh it becomes hard for you to see yourself outside of whether you are a man or a woman and which are you supposed to be and and I think that's that that shouldn't be a big problem if it weren't for the medical aspect the fact that some people exactly they're gonna experience thi

s phase they're going to get pulled into this rhetoric they're going to play with it that's what we do when we when we come in contact with a certain kind of philosophy that is interesting to us we play with it we put on identities just like children do we we you know we we act like we're the astronaut for a while to see if maybe we like that you know and and what ends up happening unfortunately with the transgender identity is that you will sometimes end up going to the medical path very quickl

y because it is honestly presented as the healthy response to these kinds of feelings to these thoughts to having this kind of identity yeah yeah it provides a release doesn't it right it well it's medically supported it's supported by the community it's seen as being the leftist and liberal thing to do which is generally seen as the moral and correct Act um so a lot of people you know get pulled into transitioning before they even know what happened and and I'm going to come out and say that's

exactly what happened to me now I have a long history that supported my decision to transition but I was definitely in doubt when I did it um and it was definitely a snap decision for me and I think it's it's it's been I know it's been a snap decision for other people who are trans or dtrans and and scared that I'm scared of that because I suffered and am still suffering um as a result of that decision and I don't want that to happen to others and I don't think that's a an evil thing you know wh

en people say that we're transphobic for saying things like this I'm trying to protect my people I I'm I'm trying to help my people I don't see how that's ever wrong exactly I completely agree with you so sorry if I could just say um I'm glad you got to this point because this is been something that's been burning me the last few weeks um uh the idea that because I work with D transitioners I must be a transfer I mean please explain the logic to me so someone who clearly chooses I choose to work

with d transitioners and trans people I've got other trans people that I deal with as well but some people see the fact that I work with d transitioners as I must be transphobic okay well it would be a very strange way of practicing strob transphobia to deal with a lot of people that were trans okay yeah they are still dealing with with their trans identity I want to add something to that we are 100% so okay there is some I have to be very careful with how I phrase this because this is a a stic

ky there there's a lot to this but we are essentially trans people right we had that experience we had the the whole background many of us for all our lives we've been dealing with gender issues we are essentially part of that Community we are not the same in this in the sense that we have taken a different path now and that we we definitely have developed different views now as a result of the experiences that we've had but we essentially come from the same place is what I'm trying to say I agr

ee yeah yeah like you can't say that the dtrans and trans Community are the same but you can definitely say that we are the same sort of people in the sense that we have the same sorts of backgrounds we have the same sorts of issues you know there's this tendency especially in the trans Community to sort of disavow Us by saying that we were never trans and and I very strongly push against that because first of all that's making a lot of assumptions about what it means to be trans right like this

is some kind of essentialist thing that you like in your very DNA is coded or there's no proof of that that that is entirely a philosophical determination on their part if that is what they believe and it's not even what is believed by every trans person I would argue it's not even the most common belief in the trans community in general um so you know when they say we were never trans I I challenge them to explain what they mean by that because we usually went through those experiences we we h

ave genuine trans experiences so why we never trans let me see if I can if I can join you in the mud here unique I know I know we're um we like doing this but um I I discussed you've just reminded me about something that I discussed with Laura Becca um long ago uh in we might have done it uh off the recording but I think it might be in the transy podcast that I did with Laura but we discussed I said to me uh and this is this was three years ago you know uh to me trans is transition okay but from

a psychology perspective and as a 50y old man okay let me tell you transition is normal transition is actually life okay so we need to redefine or it's not even redefined it's revived the idea of what life is actually okay to me life is very much about transition so when someone says to me they're trans I'm like okay cool that's literally my reaction okay you're transitioning what are you transitioning to what I don't agree with obviously is transitioning into a patient for life right because I

don't agree by the way I don't agree with uh ADHD people being transitioned to patience for life okay or depressed people or any medicalization that is unnecessary because it's it's it's obvious now I'm very lucky that I came into psychology in midlife so what happened was I came into psychology with all my own personal experiences as well my mother was in a mental institution for many years I I watched it in in my the rest of my family very aware of mental health in general and what I saw was

medicalization is a catastrophe and the research proves this so trans as an ident as a political identity related to sexual transition is just one aspect of this bigger problem so when people say to me I'm TR as I say I go okay cool fine let's talk about it let's figure out what you're actually doing yeah and it's strange to me that this is not something that has been picked up on the left because I'm a leftist I come from the leftist community I've done all of that um I've done all of that uh u

h supporting and and I've been part of the protests and I you know I you know I'm part of that that culture um or at at least I certainly used to be I feel like I've been pushed out now now um because of this issue but have very Lefty ideas I know we've spoken about this before as well absolutely it's amazing to me that they haven't caught on to this issue because you know there are often so many overlaps they generally agree that medicalization is often bad for people you know for instance with

mental illness there's the push Among Us for neurod Divergence I I'm an autistic person and and I believe in the concept of neurod Divergence over automatically seeing somebody as mentally ill um and and you know considering that you'd think that there would be more support for the idea that people aren't necessarily always best to boil down to one category that we really need to understand people as complex individuals and so when you have a medicalization that is one siiz fits all that is sim

ply treating everybody the same way every time because that's what affirmation care is it's you always get the same treatment every time regardless of who you are without even knowing you that's what happened to me um you know it it's very obvious to me and it it even makes sense given how the medical community treats us that there's this tendency to look at anyone who is trans identifying or experiencing any kind of gender uh issues um as just always in the same type category when I think many

of us it's like you said life is a Perpetual transition many of us are going through our own kinds of transitions in life we're going through our own kinds of things our experien hope so moving toward being the people that we are growing into and that's not always going to look the same that's not always going to require same kind of medicalization yeah um yeah I I I think it's amazing that that we lock people into one state by changing their bodies when in fact the there's so much going on they

're coming from so many different places and they're going to different places that's why I'm not comfortable with this term gender Doria because gender dysphoria is this nebulous idea nobody can really Define exactly what it is gender dysphoria is so confusing for people it it's very much like when you go and you tell somebody they have a psychological condition and they get so involved in this idea that they have this psychological condition and they need to fix it and they stop seeing themsel

ves they stop seeing the person that they are exactly exactly yeah I feel like gender dysphoria I know gender dysphoria is doing this to people because I basically do unpaid counseling for a lot of people who are questioning their transitions or who are detransitioning and many of them are just locked into this idea of gender dysphoria and when you ask them what it actually is they don't know ex means with them you see that's that's we have to acknowledge that that's deliberate they they ially I

mean this we don't want to get too technical but this goes back to the the the last dsm5 um modifications that that people criticized it people warned that this was going to happen and that's um now I think it's 13 years ago I can't remember the exact dates um but there are letters where people warned that this was going to happen and um and here we are it's exactly what's happening gender dysphoria is not something that you can do a blood test for there's no brain scans for it um conveniently

yet there's this entire industry set up all these professionals lined up with all their qualifications to help you transition yeah to fix something that no one can Define proper ironically when someone suggested that they might have an idea about how to scan the brain for it that was shot down by the trans Community to the point that they didn't even release their research on the subject and and the reason is because we're there is this they're politically Savvy I know because I was part of this

Community they really want to Ure that they get the kind of open medicalization that they want which is essentially everybody gets access to medicalization at on demand um and and I did I used to believe it or not I used to agree with that but I completely disagree now because I've experienced what happens when you go through that and I've met other people who experience what happens you know maybe somebody gets away with it but somebody else doesn't and that's not acceptable to me I think we c

an be much more adult about that we can take care of the people who need help and we can take care of the people who don't by not giving them things that they shouldn't be getting um but they don't actually need really the reason that they're not into the idea of like a positive test for gender dysphoria because they want to maintain this Schrodinger trans idea that some people are trans because they just want to be and other people are trans because it's a medical condition and there's definite

ly no uh interaction between that that would contradict that's true true again yeah yeah but you did bring up uh autophilia so as much as I loath to to go into these Waters um I know you had some stuff you wanted to say because you generally get torn apart the second you bring it up exactly um well maybe let me kick off okay I wrote about this if if nobody's read if the people listening haven't read read it um it's on psych um. org um it's part of my profile I'm not ashamed of it there's some th

ings that I said about my private life um about my my years as an anorexic um I I'm I'm very happy with that some people seem to think that I'm supposed to be ashamed that that that's common knowledge well I did write it and publish it that's supposed to make me feel embarrassed um but just to be clear like didn't say that I was organophilic but I did explain some things that happen when you're anorexic which is a body um dysmorphia okay and and again with a lot of men a lot of The Men Who trans

ition and eating disorder is a precursor and uh in my experience dealing with male detransitioners and male trans people that I've that I've spoken to that I've counseled um body dismorphia is very much part of the the problem okay so um so I understood that when yeah when I started having these conversations it occurred to me that oh that's what they're talking about because obviously in my day 30 years ago the language was different you know um but absolutely I was trying to maintain some kind

of aesthetic I was trying to maintain an idea of you know the the transhumanist idea you know this I could become something else rather than just be what I am and then do stuff with my life rather than be something you know and that's the distinction obviously that a lot of people need to make is like yeah it's not so much um what you are it's what you do that really matters in life um can I make a statement yeah so I I know I'm cutting you off but I just have to get this out before I forget ab

out it I think I can sum up my position on autog gy ofilia very simply um and that is that so I am a person who identifies with autog gyil I definitely think that I have a very mild very benign form of it which essentially means that sometimes I fantasize about being female big deal it's entirely in my head that's the only place it lives right yeah it's just a thing I think about sometimes and I think there are a lot of other guys out there who are going to be exactly that way in some increment

right yeah yeah and so I don't even want to discuss people who are so disordered that it gets like completely out of control and they start acting criminally and stuff like that I'm concerned about the people who are on the level that I'm on because we need the concept of autogynephilia to be accessible to them so that they can understand what they're experiencing if we say that it's bad and evil all the time and that nobody's allowed to have it without being some kind of criminal they're going

to jump to the trans explanation that's why so many of them identify as trans and later transition because they're like well I'm not bad and evil I must be this thing instead and they jump on that train and it leads them to medicalization and they get hurt these are people who never would have harmed a person in their life and they're getting hurt by doctors because they didn't have this other much more reasonable explanation which with a much more sound psychological basis which they could have

learned to deal with in a in a way like I do which would have been less problematic which is essentially keep it to yourself I mean that that's that's so simple to me and and I hate that we're complicating it by making these people feel vilified and and I get it there's going to like I can immediately imagine because I've been on Twitter all of the arguments that you're going to get well we have to focus on the Dangerous Ones because they're the ones we have to stop okay yeah you can do that bu

t can we do it in a way that doesn't immediately send this message that like AGP is like completely the worst thing ever right can we can we find a way to talk about this that prioritize like talk about literal criminals talk about like rapists or about flashers or whatever say that that's your problem if you say AGP then there's going to be this like and and everybody wants to say that you can't have AGP when you're a teen I did when I was like 16 15 because that's when you develop these experi

ences I've never heard that before yeah no absolutely you can have in fact that that's no you wouldn't believe how many people say that's say teenagers have sexualing every teenager experiences sexuals I'm sorry that's when you develop fetishes usually um and so like if say you know everybody's worried let's let's protect the children okay what about the child who's like say even 17 right bordering on 18 he's 17 and he's experiencing autophil thoughts not criminal not disordered he's occasionall

y imagining that he's female maybe in sexual Contex maybe not because it's going to cross over sometimes it's going to be sexual sometimes it's going to be not because sexuality isn't our entire personality it's just a piece of it but sometimes it's sexual for him right so now he needs an explanation for what he's experiencing is he trans or is it something else well what's the alternative it's autog gyil but if he hears that that makes him an evil Predator he's going to jump into the trans it's

going to drive him somewhere else guess where he goes next down to the gender clinic to get hormones exactly because now you have to um now you have to validate your autophilia it's like AB internalized um homophobia as well um it operates the same way but I want to point out right in the beginning of this recording what I said was you see AGP is associated to men males okay if something is associated I mean the the the I don't really know how much they're talking about it but the autoandrophil

ia in in the female population as far as I've heard is hardly discussed at all right because it just it's just just leave it there okay right but instead what's happened is some some um some researchers did did papers on autophilia they identified it um as far as I know they didn't say autophil people are psychopaths they didn't say that they said this appears in a certain population all right right psychopathy is a is a is you can be autophil and PSY okay but not all autophiles are psychopaths

right I mean complicated for some it's a comorbidity and and what you're you're bringing up is very important because there is some discourse that's occurred where people have talked about how there is research that says autogynephilia often coincides with antisocial personality disorder which is essentially psychopathy and and I concede that that research exists but what people don't understand about it is that that is research of people who are disordered they are in a clinical setting and the

y are experiencing autog gynophilus which is of the disordered level it is interfering with their lives it is interfering possibly with the lives of others to be classified disordered in that way you would have to have certain elements of antisocial personality some of those characteristic traits would have to occur and if you have enough of them you would be guess what both AGP and antisocial personal why theying link because they're not going out and investigating people who are nonis or benig

n because they don't care about that population that population doesn't does does not um have any consequence to a psychological researcher that population does not have a mental illness for you to be characterized as having a mental illness it would have to actually be disordered it would have to actually have these traits that interfere in your life right um and and so yes like there is a link found among disordered populations but we shouldn't be bashing that over the heads of people who are

not disordered in experiencing paraphilia paraphilia is so common among people it is something that a vast amount of people experience to some degree it doesn't have to be um blown out of proportion in fact many people are going to experience it about very mundane things like breasts you know a person could be very fixated on breasts that could qualify as a parelia it's a fixation that but we don't you know worry about that because we don't consider it a mental illness and it's not and there are

versions of AGP that are also not a mental illness and I think that by by vilifying that we are not leaving room for those people to grow into individuals who don't buy into the trans explanation and and I'm not saying that like that is like automatically bad what I think is bad is when it leads to medicalization that is going to hurt them and I think many many times it will when this is the basis that they're coming from because you've got to remember that aside from being sexual this is also

often coming out of trauma or difficult experiences one has had it's often coming out of a background of difficulty with gender either presentation or gender experience there may be feelings of uh there may be internalized Mis injury where the person essentially feels that they are worse for being being male than being female a lot of the time that sort of thing um proceeds and and involves in the development of a paraphilia and that does not necessarily mean it will be disordered we we have to

stop pathologizing people we have this tendency to think that anyone who has a different kind of psychology than us is automatically like Psychopathic because that's the most extreme version of difference that we can imagine and it's also the scariest one and when somebody's different it's easy to jump to the scariest version of different and say Ah that's what they must be like oh no you know uh and I I really really think we need to stop pathologizing so deeply because honestly you can even se

e how that ties into um the the sort of Crisis we have with too many people thinking they're trans when that is not the right thing for them is that they're again they're getting fixated on pathologizing themselves and others are getting involved and pathologizing them too yeah it's interesting like you you're talking about these things you know from a from a therapy perspective um we look out for things that are obviously distractions in someone's Behavior so coping mechanisms whatever you want

to call them okay um but from a psychological perspective um the the kind of thing that you're describing now is okay someone has let's just summarize okay someone's young that's 17 years old um they have this um their sexuality is kind of um cycling through their ideas okay because obviously you're 17 you don't know what your what your thing is you know and even quite frankly again these things are all in transition um your thing when you're 50 is going to be different to the thing when you we

re 17 when you're 17 you don't know what your thing is so you're cycling through the things that you're exposed to and what are they exposed to all together now porn sure okay sorry to to make it sound so jovial it's really not um but uh yes the excess of porn the abuse of porn um the the uh what can we call it you know the the dark corners of porn so now if someone's 17 years old and he doesn't understand how this has such a power over him and like you said he's got something to deflect from he

's got adverse childhood experiences he's got torment he's got abuse maybe maybe he just has high anxiety you know maybe he was given like is happening to so many he's given ADHD medication with antidepressants at the age of like nine and then he gets to 17 he's got this raging this is what I wrote about this raging uh sexuality and some men women just don't understand this I I right again obviously I'm I've never been a woman obviously so I don't know I'm not saying I was literally just thinkin

g that too I was like there's a lot I can say on this but the people that I want to inform are literally not going to be able to understand yeah exactly exactly that's what I'm getting at so yeah I remember and and trust me guys I was in boarding school a male boarding school I was one of the more passive uh guys in terms of his puberty okay but I think because I developed a bit early so I developed a little bit in isolation and I was a little bit ashamed and I sort of staggered a little bit and

I was raised Catholic and I was surrounded by women my whole life um uh very matriarchal family there were men but they were very matriarchal family Italian family so there's lots of things that fed into that and then by the time I went to borging school um I was kind of settled with okay there's the things that happen every morning and you know I'm fine and I've learned how to handle it and whatever but the other boys were developing in that in that exactly in the years that you that you devel

op uh puberty okay when I was at boring school so I watched how these other boys dealt with it and these went bananas I mean I've seen the weirdest things I'm not going to quote anything here because it's going to be awkward but honestly some of the weirdest and if many men are listening they're probably chuckling because they know very well what a 17year old boy or let alone a 14year old boy can get up to when he doesn't really know understand what he's doing you know so what I'm saying is wome

n can't understand the effect of testosterone on the male body okay the male body at at at 13 years old or 12 years old maybe gets flooded with these massive doses um one study I read said it can be up to 50 times more the regular the regular levels okay that that doesn't come and go it comes and it stays okay that's what you've got to learn to live with for the rest of your life and you know what it turns out a lot of boys don't learn how to deal with that they only learn how to deal with it la

ter on in life when they when when it's safe to deal with that okay so what happens is they develop deflections distractions coping mechanisms um one of those things will be porn they'll start watching porn to to give the the libido somewhere to go all right and I'm using libido in both forms in the sort of Life Energy and and the sexual energy form okay but again the power of this will be very hard for a a woman to understand obviously I do understand that the changes in a in a in a female's bo

dy during pu puberty are very dramatic as well but what I'm talking about here is um the the the internal mechanisms the way the brain adapts and the way their psychology their self-identity and all that adapts to this this um hormone which um is essentially uh enhancing whatever the traits are okay so the one thing about testosterone is that it enhances whatever you are already it it it boosts that so yes in some cases it does make people more aggressive but that's not always what it does it do

es other things as well Carol Van huin has WR written about this um so now in context of that you've got this teenage brain doesn't know how to deal with the stuff he gets he gets sucked into porn he then sees so this is now where we getting to the other type of t uh male he sees uh Men Behaving Badly basically in in porn videos he thinks oh my God I don't want to become that he's horrified by it so what does he do is he withdraws he Retreats um he's filled with guilt and shame he finds other wa

ys to do it and what are the one of the ways to do it is to watch anime because at least that's not real people being abused in some way or performing badly so he watches anime he gets some kind of relief from that but what is that doing is it's hardwiring a maladaptive a dysfunctional a disordered sexuality and what I said in in the article that I wrote or the opinion that I wrote was they become a sexual Singularity and to me that's what autophilia is in the non um um dark Triad version okay t

he non non non- Psychopathic version right that's a whole different topic we need to which will be rare I want to add the number of people who experience that are super rare they're going to get all the attention because they're going to act really badly but they're the ones that make into the news yeah yeah exactly but all the other ones are actually if you understand it properly what these boys have done is they've they've successfully excluded themselves from the the very scary world that the

y see as as a you know 15 year old brain he do I want to give you yeah I want to give you the flip side on that as well there's also uh something about okay so I'm I've been I've been theorizing how can how can I make people understand this who maybe otherwise wouldn't be able to we know that if you were to expose a young woman to a lot of images of like porn pretty girls um constantly they're super thin they're constantly wearing like way too much makeup there maybe like like like an idealized

version of attractive right um they will develop issues with their self-image we know this because we know this happens even just with mundane images of supermodels and such yeah they will have self-image issues now why don't we think that something like this could happen for men exact because if a young man is constantly seeing these videos where let let me put it to you this way and I think a lot of people are going to immediately react negatively to this because they're going to think like oh

well you know the it's so bad for the women in porn okay but teenagers don't know that they they're just watching a video they they don't have the World experience to understand what they're seeing what they're seeing is a very beautiful and this is going to be Amplified for them because of their height and sexual experience at that point a very beautiful woman who is the center of attention and who is going to appear to them to be like perfect right it's very easy in your mind to start thinkin

g about what would it be like to be her um and I think that you're right because the the flip side of that is that the men in these videos are behaving badly and they're also being treated as like props they're being treated as kind of part of the set I think you might be about to say this but they're also completely submissive in one way right in in a sense they are in in in in a okay not all porn obviously there's very abusive porn as well so let's just acknowledge that but in some porn the wo

man seems to have all the power you know and that's what these these very naive brains are are seeing I actually completely agree and and and what they're internal they're internalizing so many messages that are going to make them think awful things about themselves as they are right being male a lot of it is also that many of them at this stage in life are going to be feeling lonely they're going to be feeling isolated that's how they got to watching this stuff in the first place and they're se

eing is these scenes where it seems like yes the woman does seem to be because she's the center of this video she's she does seem to have a powerful place in it and it does seem like the men in these videos are kind of like they're damn lucky to even be there right like they they feel like they're they're shoehorned in the camera doesn't even want to look at them right and if you look at them they're not going to that's a good point they're not going to appeal to your sexuality in any way you do

n't want to look at them you just want to look at her and so it's very easy to see how someone who already might have some reason to feel either concerned about being male or or some kind of in congruity maybe they're feminite maybe they're not maybe they're very masculine and that's felt like a bad thing to them for some reason like they felt like they could be being um isolated because of it because that maybe they appear too uh off-putting I don't no there could be any number of reasons these

are individuals right they're looking at this and they're there are so many reasons for them to start wondering what benefits there might be what what what good things might come out of the experience of being female and that can develop into a fixation because they're doing this every night for hours they're watching this and they're thinking about it a lot I think the problem is a lot of people don't understand the extent to which this is happening to to young men and the context as I said ma

tters the the the the level of brain development um and I just want to make something clear like I don't I don't want anyone to think that where we are currently talking about porn as if it's a good thing that's not what we're doing at all people need to understand like there's a difference between what a teenager who's developing and doesn't understand the world sees and thinks compared to what's actually going on right we understand that this this stuff is bad it's especially bad for the women

involved and and and that's not like that's that's not what we're talking about what what I'm talking about is the way that the boy is being affected and and somebody may want to say well let's not worry about him let's worry about these other issues okay you can worry about those issues but I'd like to make some room to worry about the boy exactly because I think that we should consider boys to be vulnerable individuals I think that they deserve so I think let me let me give some let me give s

ome um like meat to that okay you said let's worry about the boy let's worry about the vulnerable individual um along with other issues sure sure obviously the the the women in in porn are being dehumanized as well but it's like a bomb going off exactly that's the thing is is in that whole circle of relationships everyone is being dehumanized the only person that's gaining is the guy that owns shares in the porn company um which again goes right back to me being a leftist like I don't see why th

e left is is not catching on to these issues I'm sorry but continue exactly exactly I I have the same frustration exactly but just to bring it back to just zoom out a little bit you know gen Z in general has a problem with very high IQ which is a consequence of the Flyn effect that the the generational increase in IQ I'm speaking very broadly obviously but a lot of the people that transition are part of that category part of that poort in Western culture that have the benefit of the fly effect v

ery high IQ often higher than their parents literally um but they don't have wisdom they don't have emotional intelligence and in that environment that's what that's why we we talk about the Gap very often you know I talk about Bridging the Gap because you've got this environment where you've got kids that benefited from all the the previous generations with very high IQ but actually we stunted their emotional development we've we've Stripped Away the the rights of Passage you know the rituals t

hat we would have had in in in previous uh versions of our different cultures all the different cultures had rights of Passage especially for males um and males it turns out need that and I I I personally believe that a lot of what transitioning is General transitioning in life is about us choosing and and and um overcoming the rights of passage that we choose that we that we want that we actually need you know because it's it's very well known in Psychology that um you need to be challenged to

grow this isn't controversial you know right um but unique let's let's see if we can wrap it up um and I know we went into pretty deep borders there but I think there were certain points that we wanted to make um and maybe uh is is there something you want to finish off with uh no I mean if you have any further questions uh you know I I I had intended to talk more about my own personal story but I I think if anybody wants to find me on Twitter they can read my uh pinned tweet and that'll pretty

much explain it exactly yeah look these things always um this recording was done specifically for drron awareness day uh 12th of March um we can certainly think about doing another recording where we release it at a later stage yeah I I should add that I'm not really very active there anymore I think that the discourse has become so toxic that it doesn't seem worth involving in so probably that's not a great way to contact me anymore but uh you know my pin tweets are still there at least yeah we

ll well there you go then in that case I think we should do another recording so so whoever's listening and whoever thinks this was interesting and at least um start to approach the issues that we need to be talking about um especially from the the the male trans and drons perspective for me it's ultimately about male mental health because the Mal's transitioning is just one part of the crisis with boys there's a there's a general crisis with boys which we've known about for 20 30 years already

anyway um so that's that last but I mean I do have lots of questions for Unique you know that um so let's see if we can plan another session and we'll we'll let people know um through through genp at least sure cool thank you so much thank you