Gordon's Back! 14900KS Unleashed, MSI Claw Impressions & More | The Full Nerd ep. 294

To find and to work with. Yeah. You know, it's fun having a real job. Multiple people have sent me the job posting at them. So you're congratulated. Really? that's funny. that's cool. I like that. well, hopefully we are live on the internet. Ah, yes, Hello. We're here. The full nerd. This is the podcast where we're going to talk about PC stuff and just, you know, but not just talk about it. We're going to hang out. We're going to chat about some stuff we're excited about, you know, just chill th

is weather. Your first time builder or long time builder, come hang out with us. We're here having some fun. Hey, Adam, first time, long time. The first time, Long time. We're going to go around the horn. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. So this is Bradshaw. Guess how many pieces pieces of you built Bread. I can't count that high, but it's because I drop out of high school. okay. You know, too soon, Gordon, At some point, you used to be in speed building competitions. no, I never done the

Kobayashi Maru. No, you didn't know that. I was always too afraid. That was Norm. Yeah. Afraid he'll get knocked down. There's a reason why you do it. You don't want to. I'm. I know. I was. I will say I did it. I lived through it. So Nathan did it. One year I won. You remember? You, you, I and I remember in we were in that actual video that you guys said, but I so like, I was coaching Nathan and Nathan beat Norm. Nathan Edward Yeah. Nathan Edwards. Now, Norm failed miserably by not hooking up a

cable during that build a caucus and and for people don't know Tiger direct you should do a PC building contest at CBS. Yeah everybody would get if you want time they'd pay your charity and will did win one year but I think you gassed your hand really badly right I when when so okay. The cases that they used were tiger direct cases and they were not the it was not your smooth rolled aluminum it's tiger it's still around I don't hold back so yeah like I so I nicked my hand about 10 seconds into

the minute 30 build. Ooh and I it looked like the judges came over and they're like we didn't give you a red case. How did you get a red case? Look, they, they they talked a lot of smack about it, but the PC booted faster than anybody else's. And, and I don't know, an elementary school got the computer? I think so. And also the computer as far as building like if people, you know, was a different world back then. And you know, you had probably 30 people, most of them, frankly, let's be honest, w

ere not PC desktop people. There were a lot of Mac people there. A lot of yeah, I and neither one said I was but yeah a lot of Mac people but you didn't you didn't have to put the processor in the socket because I'm sure they thought people would just destroy the motherboard. So yeah it was actually pretty, you know, you didn't have to do a lot of it was like building ram power cables, hard drive, optical drive. They had a floppy for some reason. That was always what would get you because you co

uld put it in. I think they picked it up to make it a little harder. I don't think I've ever built a machine with a floppy drive now. Well, so the fun thing was when Norm lost to Nathan, we came back to the whiskey office, and the next week I beat him blindfolded because then because I was like, I'm. You've brought great shame upon our brand, Norm, and what you just did. But you did this like, not for anything. You just we just say those two identical pieces on the on the on the live show and an

d, and I can't remember he was blindfolded too. Or if I just do it by feel. But you literally beat him when you were blindfolded. I think we were both you know, that's your you're talking a big game here. Maybe we need to bring like you want to do about it. You wanted to get me me in coach. All right, We we, we got some fun stuff. Talk about how. How's everything? How the hamsters Are they on the wheel? Hamsters looking good. Him? Yeah, Yeah. Just keep running. Hamsters spin and keep running b

read like your shirt. You know, I never. I remember the first couple seasons came out early or not early, but you know, soon after each other. And then I don't think I ever watched the the third season. It's good stuff or I haven't watched it in probably a decade, but it's good stuff. A decade. Good stuff. Gordon, you have a guest with you? yeah. Yeah, I know. The copilot. Yeah. He doesn't get a medal, though, so definitely not a medal. Wow. Gordon What? Gordon? Gordon didn't show up with a bea

rd, so he showed up with hair. Yeah, that is a lot of hair. All right. Everybody has beards. Yeah, well, and glasses. Well, no, except for bread. latest. Not here. vision. Yeah, And we'll. We'll see here, and, we'll sit here, so we got fun stuff. Fun stuff to talk about. If everyone's ready, then were everyone ready? Thumbs up, Thumbs down. Yeah. All right, cool. Then, let me bring up my intro, which I did not write. Woops. what are we talking about? Okay, here we go. In this episode of the Full

Nerd, we talk about the 4900 keys and the MSA claw clone. Welcome, everybody, to episode 294. Just six left before 300 of the full nerd podcasts. PC World's Premier PC Hardware Podcast. I am your fill in host Adam Patrick Murray and I'm filling in still for this guy Gordon Mong He's back everybody everybody record back and there's gonna be you live on the internet it's been it's been a while yeah welcome back Gordon Glad to have you. We're going to catch up with you in a second, but I am also g

oing to introduce Brad Marcus. Hello, Brad. How's it going? Adam Gordon shows back up and you rub it in his face by doing the one take intro right off the bat. Wow. You know? Yeah, the bar. The bar is real low for me, so, you know, it's just a I just mess it up. I don't even retake it because I'm like, whoa, whatever. I can't do any better. It's a podcast. Yeah, Yeah. Speaking of not doing any better, Will's here. Just kidding. I'm still here. I go back to my vodka and water for the record. Wel

l, Willis slides on the vertical and horizontal. So little Willis second wheel here. Hello, everyone. You keep calling yourselves. I've never heard anyone call you Will. I know. I've actually been called Wallace. William Wallace. Wilbert. I don't know. Bird calls you. Well, how do I like? You know who knows? I'm going to call you Willis. No, Wilbert. No, no, no, no, no. Wilbur is never okay. It's never a critical time either. Their name is Wilbur. Okay, Well, yeah, we've got pretty much the full

nerd crew back. Alan, unfortunately, couldn't join us, but you know that that is the first thing we're going to talk about is the Gordon's back. Gordon, You know, how. How are you doing? A Glad to have you back. Glad to see you. Everybody in the chat is very glad to see you. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Yeah, I know. And I believe me, I have missed everybody dearly and it is fantastic to be back on a live show for the first time in basically six or seven months, so it's been awesome. I have

a lot of things to say, but I don't want to turn this into a cry fest. Obviously people know I have been battling cancer since last July, August. It's been a really, really hard road. But to keep this upbeat and, you know, I do I want to just say thank you to everybody. I don't want to make this into an Academy Award speech where they played music and pulled me off the stage. But don't do that. Will do it. Yeah, it's, there's a lot of people I want to thank everybody from my company, IDG foundr

y hat that has been standing by me through this whole ordeal. I've got Kleenex here in case turns into a for. But as I've said before, there's no crying in PC building as well as, you know, obviously coworkers, family and all those. I love you all for being with me and also the nerds out there and also all of the the people who reached out to me. You never realize where you're standing in the world is as a person until you run into something as serious as, you know, facing mortality. But I've he

ard from so many people who have come out of, you know, taking time out of their day to talk to me, to cheer me up, just they want to talk. And I really appreciate it because it makes you realize that you're just not an A-hole, because, I mean, the world you never know the world. You're not only for a long time, but you never know because you know, so, you know, I'm sort of wired not to be like, you know, you know, you don't like to brag about yourself like, I'm a good person. And he sort of say

that I'm a good person. That's like, well, you're probably not right, because I just seem to like, I need to say it then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I but the weird thing is because the opposite, it was like, I must be a terrible person. But then I realized that, no, the people that have and there are so many people to thank and I probably should do another video, but I mean, there are people who when I would go in for chemo and I don't want to name anybody because, you know, I don't want to get any

weirdness. But the person knows who it is. The person would, you know, text me every time, put it in his calendar, and afterwards he would check in on me and and really got me through those early days to so many people that reached out and and just told me that I'm a good person. And it it really helped. So and I don't want to make this a downer because, you know, I really my condition is I'm still battling cancer, but I have been off of radiation treatment now for about a month, about a month

or so. And things are better. I'm able to eat food that would make me herbal six months ago and it's all better. And I think I keep this as a nerd story. I one of the other person I wanted to thank is my doctor and Dr. Lee at Kaiser, who I knew it. He things are getting better because I one of the last calls we did, it was like, hey, I got a question. I'm having problems with this, this, this doc for my laptop. I can't get this 4K panel to work. It's like, I must be your doctor asked you that. y

es, You take the best use ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, use video call, but it's like, well, yeah. No, I can I as well. I was like, well because I remember the laptop had an HP laptop was like, well it's probably, it's probably got Thunderbolt probably. Then I think it's like, well it's probably your IT department's cheap and they probably bought a lousy, you know could be the dock could be the cables You know there's a lot of reasons why it's a multi because you're trying to run multiple pa

nels but I thought it was like so like I knew that I was like, I guess I must be better because he's asking me because in six months never asked that question. It's so funny. It actually asks out like and so he's like, you know, we don't got much to talk about right now. Can you help me troubleshoot some problems? You know? Now that's awesome. Well, and I do want to ask. So, you know, I mean, I kind of put it in the headline, Hey, Gordon's back, you know? But I mean, it's not like, hey, Gordon's

back to, you know, exactly how you've been. Obviously it's, you know, yeah, that but the, the the idea is that I'm excited to have you back on the podcast regularly. So that's that's one of the things we're, we're planning for, right. Yeah. No and I, I think I can do it again. I'm, I'm not, I'm nowhere near 100%, but I have dearly missed this and I've, I miss the audience because you know, there's nothing that is better than just nerding out about stuff and then just kind of watching the world

go by was was was no fun. So hopefully I get the strength back, get back into this game because I think it's a it's a it's a it's a wonderful place to be. And I'm excited once again. Welcome back. Welcome back. Yeah, we're glad to have you here. All the all the chats. Very excited. The chat has spoken. Gordon, you are the goat. There you go. Yeah, you are the Gordon is the goat. The goat. And the. And a good person. And I can ask. Yeah, I can agree with that. I mean, people ask every week. Every

single week. Yeah. So good. It's worth he'll still always be an asshole to me. Gordon. you know what, Brad? With the real takes here. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's funny. Yeah. So, you know, I. We're. We're going to have you on the show remote for. For a little while. You know, we'll keep things going. So bear with us while we work out the details on that. But once again, glad to have you back in any form. yeah, I'm excited to hear your opinions. They've been sorely missed a lot of times I've been doi

ng the show and I'm just like, Man, I know of Gordon. We're here. He'd have a good opinion, but yeah, so yeah, the takes were. Yeah, yeah. We're fairly tepid. Yeah. I hope you have, like, you know, like a drawer full that you've been like. Like saving up. You're like, you know what? I'm going to. I need to bring this take back when I come back. Yeah, I know there's definitely a there were no definitely I have like on something So yeah there were definitely moments in the last couple of months wh

en I was like, man. And Gordon would be yelling on his radio right now if he's listening to us. So yeah, yeah. So there's that. But then also we, we have something new I want to bring up as well. The we actually have a job posting to come work on our team. Come work with me, come work with Gordon. You know, come work with the full nerd crew here. Luckily, our company, you know, I've been fighting hard to be like, Hey, we need, we need some more people building this this awesome YouTube channel a

nd, and maybe even venturing off into Ticktalk and things like that. So, you know, we do have a you know what? I don't think I put the link in the description yet, but I will for the the prerecorded version. But yeah, if you want to come work with our team, please feel free to, you know, put in your, your resume or whatever in the in the job posting if or if you know somebody and you're like, hey, you know what, this person, you should get this person They do awesome YouTube videos then let us k

now we're we're open for all that kind of stuff. So we get to build up the team. So not only do we get Gordon back, we also get to add another team member and we still get to to work with Will. And yeah, we're growing you know come fill pieces with Yeah, come build pieces. Do you like pieces then. Then you're the journey halfway there. Personal computers. Yeah. Personal space. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, if you're a mac user, you know, maybe this isn't the right. You know, if you do Mac and PC.

Okay, Okay. But if you're just a mac user, maybe don't apply for this job. I don't know. It might be kind of hard. you know, I think there's the problem is a stereotype of Mac users. There's a stereotype of PC users and there's definitely some Mac people who are not the stereotype. And those are the ones that I think would be fine. But the stereotype stereotypical ones now are probably really good at video production, which is a bonus, but you know, like, yeah, yeah, the, the other side is the

PC side anyway. And just I don't have segway on this, but, you know, every once in a while at the preshow, I like to bring up some random thing that I've been messing around with. They're testing on my, my, we've talked recently about my keyboard journey, my custom keyboard journey and I'm inching ever closer to building my first one. Will's going to help me with that as well. But a lot of people told me, Hey, the next step in that journey is to get a key tester. So recently I got in a one of th

ose key testers. So if you don't know, this has completely different switches on on every single one SAT 81 switches. So I'm not good at math the nine eight by 972 then. Yeah, there you go. Thank you for that. So 72 different kinds of keys. We got cherry which are up here, cherry red and blue. I knew that. Yeah. Those are the famous ones. Those are the famous panacea. For a long time lately I've been using the Carlyle. Would you say Kale? Kale, Kale box, White, as in the eight bit du keyboard t

hat I've been using. So I know that one. They got gaiter on a laser. No, All these are on, isn't it? They got her on. Zealous. Zealous. I know, I don't know Telus, I don't know names that I've never heard of. Well so learn now to pronounce but it's been fine. I mean number one it's actually kind of fun fidget item number two feeling feeling these keys completely different keys side by side from each other has been kind of enlightening to be like, Wow, there, there definitely is a difference. Som

e of it I'm like, I can't really feel the difference, but some of them I'm like, wow, okay. That is definitely a big difference. Well, so the thing I'll tell you is the tester is a good idea to get a sense, but you're really not going to know until you actually start typing because like, for sure. Like, like the feeling of like whether you have to bottom out, like if you get a keyboard, it has a good tactile feel. You can type without bottoming out of the keys, like some sort of have this entire

row and like, that's really nice. It turns out if you like that the like there's different levels of noise, the whole thing. So are you going to question? You're going to go, Yes, that's Gordon. Yes. I mean, I didn't realize well, that you were into the custom keyboards and I mean, look at him. He's got this and a beard. That's very annoying. Yeah, you're right. You just need I don't insult people, that is. I thought I was the hipster of the crew, you know? And then this guy walks in. Too old t

o be a hipster at this point, but it just sometimes it feels like it's like a weird fetish, you know? I mean, I mean, I've said this before because it's like the people like that like, well, this wine, it tastes like it. You know, I can, I can definitely taste the barrel cask or whatever I like. Yeah, yeah, definitely. From this is Picard 2052. I okay. I can't really tell because, I mean, actually this is an actually the Picard this came out of the bottle, the box of wine. Like, is it just it ju

st sometimes feels like it's people in that, like that South Park episode where they're smelling their own farts. It's like, is it really that different? So I think the jump is from it's like going from a real hard drive to an SSD, right? It's like having mechanical sweet hum. No, no, no, no. I'm saying I'm saying the jump is when you go to having a mechanical keyboard, you feel the movement again and you remember what the Model 50 keyboard felt like 40 years ago. Like, like if the having the ha

ving the keys that press and make a tactile feel is real good. I think as someone who ties it is I'm not saying mechanical, but I'm saying but the different switches like it's like really caring about, hey, what kind of dampening do you have in the shell? All that kind of stuff. So I'm the kind of keyboard person who buys a keyboard and I buy whatever the quietest switches I can get at that time are because there's always like, you know, the never ending arms race to make things quieter or whate

ver. And then I don't touch it, right? Like, I don't have like 50 sets of keycaps. I don't have like walls of keyboards in glass boxes on the shelf or anything. Not Yeah, I know. I look at space or money for that. So the, the like there's definitely fetishistic fetishization. There's people that like collect them like, like people collect Star Wars shit and Lego and everything else. I know. It's shocking. Be sorry. Sorry, sorry. I just have I just I just have to challenge SSD to hard drive becau

se that is I think that's a heavy overstatement. Like if you had to take my mechanical key and it's just off the shelf, I would you could take that because I, if you like, if you had to force me to give up my SSD or my mechanical keyboard, take my keyboard, of course, I think that's not really look, it's only a few thousand words and I'm going to give you this nice Mac keyboard with the butterfly keys and you can let me know how you feel and we'll get back to you in a couple of days. But I think

the other part of it too, that I think Gordon can appreciate is that we like building PCs, right? You get to pick all the different components in it and it very much is a personal computer. The same thing can apply here. You know, like you really can pick out the different components of it and make it your own. It's not it's not exactly the same, but it's got that same kind of thing to it, you know, Like, that's how I see it as like it's an extension of, wow, I built this beautiful PC. cool, I

can build this this other accessory as well. You know, it's it's an extension. And I'm like, you can change the software. Like at this point, a modern mechanical, you can change the software. So like, if you don't like I don't ever use the caps lock or the insert key, right? So those keys do different things on my keyboards, right? I just don't I don't want those keys because I don't need caps lock, I don't need a mechanical key. If I want to have a numpad work differently than it does in the no

rmal on an over keyboard, you can you can change the software, make me do whatever you want, which that you can't do on your on your bubble dome fun stuff. I once again, I'm still early in my journey. This is that next step somebody asked me who's at Bob Jones friend of the show? Bob Jones asked if I had if I'm going to go for custom keycaps. I actually already have two keycaps. That's so silly. I'm already down that path. But yeah, so, you know, I'm taking it slow. I got some recommendations fr

om the fine folks over at Discord recently about, you know, some some easy things to kind of get into for a full custom build. We're thinking about doing like, like a live stream, something like that. So see, look, I pitched doing a full like season of The Bachelor, where we get into a whole bunch of different keyboards and each week you give a keycap to the one that moves forward, the ones that move forward and the ones that don't get keycaps stay behind. okay. I'm just saying it's like a 2020

episode deal. You're going to spend some time with them, do a little tiny little chatting, maybe get in the hot tub. I don't know if I want to get that many in, but the the the last thing I'll say is that I was joking around with my wife, Lindsey. I was like, I can't remember how many said 72, 72 and 72. Yeah, It would be kind of funny if I built a keyboard just using all these individual lines so that every single key is something different of, kind of fun. that's a bad time. My brain and fing

ers hurt just thinking, Yeah, like ever, man, my pinky is really strong, but my, my right index finger is just, like, really quiet. Anyway, we got a couple of switches where we actually getting Lemmy to the show. A friend of the show, Skeets, they gave us 2 CAD. Thank you so much. It's asking who who is the Chewbacca of the full nerd? I mean, we have a Chewbacca accent, isn't it? But, you know. Yeah, Who's the Chewbacca of the podcast? And I don't know. I mean, you're the tallest, aren't you? Tr

ue. But isn't Chewbacca also known for being quiet or no loud when he. When he needs to get loud. So hear that loser rips your arm out of your socket. Also didn't get a medal. Yeah, I have a temper. I you know, my question about Chewbacca is, do you think Chewbacca is like when he's talking? Do you think he's like adding to the conversation, giving information, or you think he's like, hey, man, do you think a kasady is a sandwich? Like, what's what's his what's his hotdog sandwich? Right? Yeah,

Yeah. Okay. I could see that, right? Yeah. Yeah. And anyway, what the thing about that one, we also got a $10 super chat from friend of the show. No. SS, thank you so much. I appreciate it. So, by the way, I can't be the only one that thought of Gordon as the cartoon meme on the old sick man in the bed wishing he could still be arguing on the net. Yeah, I exactly. And then he said to see if Zachary's in Berkeley. Beer's on me. yeah? Yeah, We'll have to come. She love Zachary. Yeah, Although I am

actually looking for it. I that's. I need to try Zachary's pizza again because I Garlic is one of the things that has not come back for me yet. But maybe it's. Maybe it's better now. So. And I love garlic. I'll, like, eat it by that. yeah, yeah. yeah, of course. The chat saying that it sounds like Elena might be the future of the podcast. She's not here to defend herself, so. yeah. Yeah, right now. Yeah, Yeah. my God. It could be because it's simply like everything is like. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Al

l value. You wouldn't really ap you either. Graphics ever. Best deal. Back at it, I thought because it's cheaper, I thought I rip your arm off when you were given a grief about eating cereal. Her True. Yeah. Yeah. No, she can definitely rip somebody's arm off. Yeah, right. Yeah. See, Chewy agrees. Yeah. All right. Quite casual. Yeah. I can bring in somebody earlier in the show said, wow, the 14 100 case comes out and Gordon is finally back on the show. Intel show confirmed 1400 case has launche

d. He's got a blue background. Yeah. yeah watches somehow coincide tides with Gordon coming back on me so you know I should I Where's my Miranda card? I don't have it with me eating it. I have a whole Miranda card wall to break. It's a it's a good one. Yeah, You show me. Yeah, actually, I have one right here. Intel got me this late, so I actually haven't had any testing. I'll just take that. I've been busy. Yeah, there you go. 14 one case, you know, kind of like the 1300 case. Guess what? It's,

you know, but it's a little bit better and a little more expensive. Yeah, exactly. So. So a lot. A bit more expensive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uses a lot of power. Not not a ton of reviews out there, you know, But it's it's a known quantity I think at this point it is the you can get 6.2 gigahertz out of the box. Just, just there you go. Pretty good. That's a lot of gigahertz pretty fast. That's pretty darn fast. Also, you know, there's been some world records beaten by extreme overclockers as well.

What they get up to nine, nine, nine something. And it's crazy on the liquid nitrogen but I do we want to pull up any of these slides because I actually did pull out some of the servers. You know, I have a do or do you have a nitrogen that up? Do you have a specific one? Which number? Gordon Well, I think we can start with zero. And this actually explains slide zero. And this is the from the official Intel newsroom. Now I let me download and I will say the launch was the launch is a giveaway it

self. The only video that I saw was from DeBoer I think early on. Paul Paul Alcorn from Paul's Hardware has recently posted his review of the 14 900 Chaos. We got our part late. You'll notice there aren't a lot of reviews and that probably is a giveaway, right? That's the Telegraph, because I can I can absolutely guarantee you that if 14 900 chaos came out and throat punched AMD in the throat, they would have sent this to everyone. Right? Because that's what happens. But they understand this is

this chip is very specialized. It is a very difficult chip to understand and from seeing a lot of the reaction to it, I want to help people understand why Intel even came out with this. And this is the official press release. And this is extremely important because for a public company like Intel, you can't just make you just can't make crap up, right? So the critical thing that is in the press release here is Intel today announce full specifications, availability of the 1400 case processors, bl

ah, blah, blah. Again reaching the cutting edge of CPU frequency to retain the title as the world's fastest desktop processor. And then there's actually a note to say how in the world they were saying that. And basically I will I will actually go because they probably had to clear with the with the the actual lawyers as lawyers approved the whole thing. Right. Because the lawyers have to prove it. And let's just look. Where's that? You know, number one, number one at 6.2 gigahertz max turbo freq

uency, the Intel core I9 processor, 14 900 cases is the fastest desktop processor as of March 2024. So basically they're making this claim well, are they equating most megahertz with fastest? Is that what you think is happening here? Faster single core speeds? Yeah. I mean, they're not it's because they're if you actually look through all of their their presentations that are out there you can go to if we want to go to slide two or three the specs are there's a spec chart and you can look at thi

s in slide one. Right. We took a look at one, just slide one. And for people in the Internet, it basically it's just a list of the 14 gen parts cases, you know, essentially 200 megahertz higher. So in the same amount as is the isn't as the standard K the core I9 4900 K part, it's just 200 megahertz higher boost. So so I should go out and buy one of these right now is what you're saying. Basically. Well it depends on what kind of person you are. There are, there are definitely reasons to justify

it. But if we go to slide two, that basically is part of the intel claims. This is part of how Intel is claiming it's the world's fastest desktop processor. There are some losses, there are some wins. But, you know, it's it's enough to, I guess, get the lawyers to okay it because they have to be able to sign off on this. And there's what I think is I think it's worth noting looking at that slide, I assume it's on the screen. So. Yep. Footnote at the bottom there. Notice that these games have the

advanced performance optimization app. yeah, yeah. Well, and also the benchmark charts start showing numbers. It's all normalized against 1.0, which is what everyone does that though I don't like it. I don't like it. But everyone's doing that right now. Well, I think it probably helps. Well, I think it helps, but, you know, I don't know either. It's there for for audio listeners, too. Comparing it against the ryzen nine 1750 x the 7800 x3d as well as the ryzen nine 7953 D part. So so it's inter

esting that they compare the normalize against the 7900, right. The 7100 x 3D. No, No. 7950 x 3D is what they know. They normalize against the 70 7900 if they normalize again. Wait, why is it why is it. Well, because for for gaming. Yeah. Yeah. For gaming. I think AMD still says the 7950 X is is the top end here. Yeah. Yeah. And there's definitely some times where the 750 x three does well but I mean honestly that they will we'll talk about this later but the 70 people the reason why people like

the core part is because you know you don't have that you know hybrid design where you have one stack, one non stack and it creates havoc. And frankly it will get into the discussion later. But still there's there's probably enough here for people. I want them to understand that the reason why Intel launched this part mostly I think is to be you know, to have a chip that they can make this claim to say, world's fastest desktop processor. Because when you can say that, when you can put that on p

ackaging, when you can put that on bullet points out of Best Buy at a Costco or put that on a website, that that drives a lot of people to go, they're saying the fastest. So it must be the fastest, right? So even if you're not going to buy the case part, you go like, well now I'll buy the I5 or buy the i7 because they must have the fastest, they must be better. So the, the marketing value of that is actually what it's worth, worth having this chip. So I mean a friend of the shows if has a good h

as a good point, I mean there's a lot of good points in the check here, but the if that's the problem with the claim is that consumers are more educated now. Yes. Right. So I think well, it depends it depends on the consumer. I mean, I think there is a lot of discussion to be had here because we actually had some some really good discussion over on discord about this, like, hey, what is the value of Intel coming out and saying, hey, you know what, We have the fastest chip. Also, we were the firs

t ones to 6.2 out of the box. Can amd say that? Well, the big No, the real value is that their earnings report comes out in a couple of days and know, you know what, investors love numbers that are bigger than the other bigger bar better for investor. Yeah well that is definitely true also hey the box itself it's got a little special edition that just means they're not going to make very many of them it turns out. I know. Well, but it's all marketing and I mean, part of it we I can't remember ex

actly which user maybe I don't want to put them on the podcast, but they were saying, Hey, how much actual weight does it have, though? Do we have any concrete evidence to say that any of the marketing stuff actually works? You know, like, and which which we don't? I actually did reach out to Intel to say, Hey, do you have any marketing that you can point to or any studies, anything like that that you can point to to say, Hey, because we say the thing things like World's fastest, you know, that

it actually trickles down to two parts further down the stack as well. Or if it actually gets people to buy this, they said they're going to look into it. But he said anecdotally, the partners have said, hey, that is something that that they're seeing drive sales. Once again, not hard evidence. We don't have like hard numbers to be like, you say world's fastest. And guess what? You know, sales go up by 10%. You see this in every market. There's some people that just go out and buy whatever the

best, but the best one is right? It's like you buy the $400 like, well, the $30 one does the same do. And that's that's the other point I have is that, hey, there's there's buyers out there who are just going to get the best thing, the most expensive thing. So you could either sell them a $600 part or, hey, guess what? Now you can sell a $700 part. Why do you think that the Nvidia graphics cards top out with the 4098 15? They're 6000 dollars now instead of topping out with the 4080 at $30,000, i

t's because they can sell those. What would have been a workstation. Yeah. Two years ago three years ago for too expensive high end focused but on the other end. Yes this part is not for everybody. This is we're not saying, hey, this is the best, so you should go out and buy a case. No, not at all. We're what we're saying, though, is like there's a reason for Intel to release us and make those claims. And whether it's just a marketing thing or a feel good story or maybe for the investors, whatev

er, there is a reason why they're releasing this. And I think like even though, you know, most people are like, yeah, poo poo on is is stupid they have to hit 500 was just to get there and it's like well but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't make it somebody is going to buy it. Yes. Because guess what? They're going to sell it. And you know, theoretically it's going to help them in other things as well. So I forget the name of the product. But remember, maybe five, six years ago until I beli

eve it was released, a very specific SKU that just was clocked super high to happen or stuff like that. And it's like, why are you doing this? OEM is only kind of a deal. And they were saying that specifically they wanted to traders the day traders like their stuff are set up to execute by command so commands like in a fraction of a second. So like every get megahertz matters, stuff like that. So I don't think as Chip is preparing many people based off the reviews I read, but there are definite

ly people out there who do need the best possible stuff and are willing to pay for. Yeah, so that's hundreds of thousands of dollars I got on the line for those folks, which I can get. Why, you know, a lot of people would once again turn their nose up at it or make fun of it, you know, And it's like, okay, you know, cool. Guess what? The chip's not for you. Then move on or be happy with whatever chip you do have or, you know, like so. But, but also it's, it's there and there are people who are g

oing to use it. So this gesture just, just nailed my, my use case. Yeah. Yeah. Which is I have a cold drafty office and it's great having a really hot sea view is fantastic. Wintertime or in the summertime here in the bay. Yeah, I can. I can make it nice and toasty in there any time I need to, but. Yeah, so I don't know Gordon, though. You know, you are a bigger and bigger bar, better fan. Well, for sure I, I because I understand that's and no they they I'm sure they have internal research to s

how that it is it is worth the squeeze for them. They don't release that data. I doubt they're going to tell you this but when you are the fastest making when you can make the claim you're fast as and and as much as people are kind of angry like, this is ridiculous. There's no focus on the gaming. There are there are still legitimate reasons you want Intel over AMD. A lot of Adobe applications still love Intel over AMD. I mean, they run better, right? So there's there's definitely things that st

ill run faster. So you could make a legitimate argument for that. So people need to remember that it's not it's not only about gaming, but it just when you're first when you win the race and even though you win the race by, you know, two centimeters, you still win the race. And yeah, it's $100 more for this chip. And it's incredibly stupid to Chewbacca. You know, the people that are like the people like, well, well, you know, so that's that's not that's not the audience. It is really just to be

able to make that claim and then hopefully get that messaging out to, I would be honest, less informed buyers, less sophisticated, the ones that are not going to sit there and watch every single YouTube review on it and then consume the charts and then go and write it and study it for a week. You know, again, I think the classic example is if I if I have if I play for the NBA and I have a super max contract, I'm just going to call up, you know, Falcon Northwest or Maingear or whatever and say, g

ive me this chip. And because it's the best thing ever, it's obviously must be better because it's the you know, they're not they don't care. You know, it's just that it's like it's pennies to them in the actual money. So it is not for a part for the people that are going to sit here and like Chewbacca and make copper wires out of pennies. So it's just not that kind of chip. Then they're actually it's interesting. Well, there's a there's a other interesting thing. Apple we mentioned earlier. Yea

h, I want to mention this, but that is an interesting discussion for sure. What is EPO? I don't know about this at all. So it's application optimization. And although I have not figured out like how do you how do people go from how isn't that just A0? But I guess that's like here, I'm not sure because this is if you want to show slide five. Yeah, well it's technically Intel application optimizes it's it's I yeah. But they call it API, they call it EPO there in I guess it's because A0 just sounds

like it doesn't work though which I will say they did they did first announcement announce this with 14th gen so this is this is not new but they they've added more titles and they've also announced that it is going to go backwards to. We actually have a who wrote that article on PC world bread Mike. Okay yeah. So saying that it will come back because initially on launch they were like, no, this is only for 14 June and we were like, Wait, so what about 14th Gen makes it unique. Yeah. So nothing

. You have to do anything to turn this on. Do you have any software installed? It's just kind of working. Yeah, you have to, you have to run. There's an app, the Apple app from the Windows Store. You also have to have a motherboard that supports DTG dynamic tuning technology. DTT So the the motherboard out support. It is a driver and you have to download the app it is so it doesn't actually they haven't really gotten into the brass tacks of it but it is not a it is not a clock speed enhancement.

It is not simply cranking the clocks up. It really is good. There has been theories, you know, that, hey, maybe, maybe it's turning off cause or, you know, doing core parking stuff, you know? So. Yeah, but yeah, the intel is not come out and said the actual source of it. And it is also interesting though I mean it is right now. So there the the new amount of titles is one do you want to read them off. So audio listeners know the bigger from two you don't need to read them off. Yeah I think tha

t's the interesting part for the title Support for me, One Red Dead Redemption two That's great to have in there, but the title support are all ones that have built in benchmarks that reviewers use. What that very what a weird coincidence. Not all of them but but yeah a lot of them are. They're there. So it does it does sound like I was watching Steve friend of the show Steve from gamers Texas State BURK Yeah Steve is and again not to get back to Gordon but the other people I really should have

thanked earlier are is the fellow YouTuber community. I heard from a lot of other YouTubers, Steve especially, who reached out and was really just trying to keep me, you know, my spirits buoyed up and, you know, I really appreciate that Steve talked about it. It is mostly looks like it's hand tuning basically for the chip. So they're basically going in and this is this is something that I think is very critical to bring up. So they're going for Apple basically goes in and it's saying, okay, this

game, you need to run on this these performance cores don't run on the efficiency cores. Steve has done some testing showing that like sometimes efficiency cores can be less efficient. And to me, what it really sort of says is Windows does not have it's everything in order for a hybrid designs because as we know we have because we have e cores on every since Alder Lake. So 12, 13, 14 basically the same same chips. You have performance cores, you have efficiency cores and the operating system i

s not very clever at like, where should I put this? We do know Intel has thread director. I think Steve described it as Apple is like third director for games or third director on steroids for games and essentially throws the game on to the performance cores. There is some theory that also by leaving the efficiency cores not used for those games, maybe they're getting a little extra cash that the games are able to access because we know for Max 3D that cache really matters in games because of th

e randomness, the more cache is better. So maybe if you actually limit the threads and the cause, you're actually getting a little there. That's just that one of the theories. But the testing that has been out there is actually it's actually exceeded some of the claims. Intel said people have seen, I think, up to, you know, 18% improvement, 20% improvement in some games. So it is really there. But to me, what it kind of says is, damn, you know, Microsoft sort of needs to get its game in order be

cause it doesn't only affect 14 Gen as well as Alder Lake and 13 Gen. It is it is kind of you could sort of blame, I think, Microsoft and Windows for the same reason why people are so like 7953 D There are some games where it's like, why is it so much slower than a seven 800 x3d part? Well, because there's no mixed, you know, because it's a hybrid designed for that x3d part. And some games are running on the wrong wrong dies on AMD too. So it really to me says Microsoft needs to get its, you kn

ow, everything in order for these hybrid designs for x86 which they didn't didn't really deal with Intel tried to address it with thread director which the powers of third director are are given a little overly subscribed like people think it actually is telling Windows, you know, to do this or actually is directing it to do it but it isn't really it's really hinting as we did a video with the window from level one text and it really just sort of hints to the operating system, Hey, you should ru

n this. But the operating system is not really actually listening to thread director And you know, and and as we know, people were not happy with how much of a Cluj it was to get the 17 and 50 x 3D mixed guy to work. So I kind of wonder if this is something that's not really going to get better till like Windows 12. You know, it's I mean, it's annoying because this is the this was the thing we all upgraded to Windows 11 for, right? Like we were like, Hey, we have to do this. We have these mixed

mixed core processors and like, like it's great that the Intel tool exists now, I guess but it doesn't help seems like it doesn't help the people on 12th and 13th Gen and it will eventually it is Yeah it is they they didn't announce the oppo feature release but I think they the 12 and 13 gem just to be clear and other games can be tried with this, you can go into like an advanced unsafe mode or something like that. really. I just, I like the switch, making my computer more unstable to make. That

's always great. And they're like, You can do it for 13th and 12th gen select chips. You can do it for any game, but we have no idea what you're going to get. So the real confidence there, Well, the the bigger the bigger question I have is and so why is Intel doing this? Because oppo or. Yeah, oppo because that is that's a lot of work to go in and hand to in these games to say, hey, this is going to better like can they actually keep this up to the to an actual gaming release because a lot of pe

ople, you know, might be like, this is a cool feature, but guess what? I don't play any of those games. Are they ever going to get to the games that I play? A lot of these are older based games. Can they do it for for new games or could it be that that they're doing this to show Microsoft, hey, listen, this is the kind of work you need to do in Windows. So like, why? Why do you think Intel is doing this? Well, it's just because they as as Brad pointed out earlier, they need the performance bump,

right? x3d that big ass cache is is, is, is it's awesome. And oppo makes a dent in it. But if Microsoft is, you know, handcuffing their chip, they have to be able to do something to market their CPU to make the performance better. So cynically that's why it is targeting things with built in benchmarks because that hopefully will affect bench markers. And I will tell you the one thing from covering the PC space for many decades now, the one company no one will ever cross or say anything bad abou

t is Microsoft. Even Intel will not blame Microsoft for its issues. And as we've seen with the early launch of the Ryzen 1000 part, which had major problems on on on Windows, a lot of people thought it was scheduling and aimed. You actually at the time came out and said, no, it's not Microsoft's fault, which I will use my example of. Basically Microsoft shot the Ryzen processor in the face of the shotgun, and then AMD apologized for putting its face in front of the shotgun. the Dick Cheney appro

ach. Well, it really is just it's they they just I will say no one will ever, ever, ever across Microsoft. And Microsoft moves at its own pace because to be fair, it is the most popular consumer operating system on the planet. They have to manage billions of licenses and they have to do everything from crappy $300 laptops all the way up to $10,000 gaming rigs. It's a pretty big tent to keep everybody happy. So they just can't simply focus in and like, let's make a handheld gaming operating syste

m. It really is tough. So I think Intel had to do this cynically because they need the performance boost. So they just did it and then hopefully at some point it will get rolled into windows. I'm sure it will, because Microsoft also knows for ARM parts they also use a hybrid design, too. So they have to they have to manage this. They have to get better at it. But it does take time when you have, you know, literally billions of licenses to deal with. So it is it is much slower. We don't we don't

march at the same pace of Apple. They just simply can't take you behind the barn and put a bullet in your head, which they don't like you. Just that generally isn't how it works on on PC. Well, I mean, that's what they do. Well, you know, they're going to do all these 86 Macs and all of these M1 Macs with like, Hey, M1 by the way, can you come to the back of the barn? what's up, you Gordon You can't build Apple Vision pro apps on an Intel. Mac You have to have an M1. Mac Yeah, at least, at leas

t in M1 Macs. So but they, they, they regularly call the herd. And the we're going to do this in 2025 potentially. We'll see if they stick to that. But it just generally doesn't it's not how it works on the PC. It hasn't worked. I was just say at the same time, Intel releasing this tool, it does help them in the short term, but it also has to apply some pressure to Microsoft to say, hey, look, this is what you're leaving on the table on our high end. You know, you don't think they care. Well, bu

t also, I think to the other point and yourself does not care. Well, I think maybe a reason could be how many people realistically, out of all the computers out there that are running windows. I mean, we're talking about millions, billions, billions, right. How many of them are actually on a hard or a hybrid design? Sure, sure. AMD Intel and, you know, Qualcomm have designs, but we're talking about still within the last, you know, handful of years how many computers out there like. So, yeah, sin

gle digits. I mean, so so so I mean, yes, it's Microsoft, you know, it's on them. But also, I bet because like you said, you know, they have to they have there are only a limited number of team, you know, to to work on stuff. And they're like, okay, well, we could figure out this hybrid thing, but how many actual users are impacted by it? And let's, let's do other stuff. Yeah, yeah, you're right. I'm being unfair to Microsoft because I say they don't care. I know. I will tell you, there are peop

le at Microsoft that care a lot, that really care a lot. The problem is that you just have too many fires to put out and it is such a vast universe and frankly, they make so much money and other things other than consumer operating systems. We all know what it's like to work in a company where you're not getting, you know, the proper resources. So I understand it. And you know what? Like they look they know exactly how many people are on what platforms and like, yeah, are you going to throw engi

neer resources at this to help this partner of Intel? Like, No, you know, you know, we need to do we need to come up with a benchmark that shows that you can equate Office 365 subscriptions with a hybrid architecture like, hey, you know what, if you're your hybrid architecture, if you optimize for that, look how many more office subscriptions you can get because then maybe they'll go, Yeah, you know, that's an interesting, interesting question because we do know that clearly games that are very

lightly threaded have problems with both AMD hybrid designs and Intel hybrid designs. But nobody's ever really looked at like, how much is it actually office performance? And I bet you the same thing happens where it's just throwing it to the wrong course too. But I mean, the thing with office performance is when like outlook outlook on my 13 900 K an outlook on my ten year old laptop open at exactly the same speed like the gate is clearly not the performance of the machine it's it's it's you kn

ow the fabric of the shape of the fabric of the universe or the quantum foam or like I don't know what it is. It makes outlook slow, but outlook is just always and will always be slow. Yeah, yeah. I have a lot of I have a lot of negative history with that. I'll look it's just that dog. So there's nothing like I don't see I would want to I would want to 4900 cas part deleted some water cooled just to run outlook and maybe maybe make acrobat faster like two things acrobat in outlook or little dogs

in the world. I will tell you I ran the 1300 cast for about a week a little bit ago for a thing that I don't think is up yet and it didn't make it it didn't make the everything else was really fast. Outlook Same speed acrobat reader Give me 15 minutes A friend of the show dimmer says Excel is CPU hungry? There we go. We need to get those Excel e-sports players in. You know you need those we had you need those big datasets. Yeah, we don't have big data sets. We're a little data center. Gordon ha

d now someone from Excel Cup champion, but fortunately we can't use it anymore. no. Yeah, it has problems, especially if because they're always releasing new versions of office, so it's hard to lock down the versions. It's a live service. It's a it's like a life service game. Yeah, but I will tell you, for those people, like, for those actual people who drive Excel hard, will 49 injured cats be like, I would be nice on Liquid Cloud up to eight gigahertz. It would be like it would be everything

they would want. It's it's insane. It's like they are over the top with how hard they push a PC. There was a demo when when Microsoft rolled out the large dataset version of Excel like ten years ago, they brought they brought somebody in to talk to us who was like the the person who tracked who had the spreadsheet that had all of the data about Safeway's, Safeway's consumer loyalty program. And the spreadsheet was like a big zillions of lines of data. And they open it up. They're like, Look, her

e's how this works. You open that, you open this up, and then you just never close it until you need to reboot the computer on the fastest computer at the time. So yeah, yeah, yeah. And the benchmark we had, it was based off of an actual real model that this Excel expert had. And it would, it would consume 128 gigs of RAM on the machine and use every single core running running. So like we actually hit the go button to to get the answer is it would it would use every single thing in your compute

r. The thing that we use, the things that we use Excel for are light and you're like, we could be using Lotus Lotus. One, two, three. We're losers. We could basically be using Google sheets, right? It's just it doesn't matter. Well, you know, actually, I do want to get a couple castings. It's very interesting. So it's back. So he got all the charts now, again, I know he's like, this is a big, big frozen in Carbonite. For the last six months, I have unfortunately not been able to run any benchmar

k, so I'm going to live through Roman. You know, I'm probably better as a DeBoer. He's probably one of the reviewers that actually hit the hit, the actual launch date. I'll just do slide seven. Willis Got it. I actually do Slide six because we got to show Roman here and he's got the he's got the cast part, but then he's got this like Blofeld Cat two. I didn't realize that. Roman Awesome. Awesome. Cat Yeah, that's a little off, but that isn't like, it really is like a Blofeld I love it. It's a Ja

mes Bond reference, but Slide seven, this is basically, again, this is the reason why. look at this. I want a 1400 cast part because look, it's fashion the 7950 x 3D by because it's only 176 frames, 175 frames a second for the 1750 x 3D versus 176 frames of the cast part. And all the by the way, I better bigger bars better. And that is also at the cost of 263 watts versus 83 watts for the 3D part. So that's this is also a ram speeds of 7600 versus 6000 on the ryzen. Yeah, yeah. He had some probl

ems with the memory I think getting it up but show me a 7600 memory system that's stable and I'll, I'll, I'll show you how to break it. Yeah. all right, well, well, and then slide eight. Last. I sort of got last slide. This is and the reason why is I don't want to steal all of the thunder. I encourage you to go look at Devours video. He had two videos. First one was basically looking at performance of the cast part and then he did a led. And this next chart for audio listeners is cinebench r 23

showing a 4900 cast part stock and also running multiple runs of R 23 Art. 23 Multi-Threaded And you can see in blue that it's, you know, for the most part pretty stable and and that's what the K part on the cast part which by the way you can set the profiles to use even more power in the k k part using a 360 All in one cell C you can see this that yellow bar, you can see that trend line. It starts off I like by the way, pretty pretty nice score up above 41,000 and then the next run it's down un

der 41,000 and then it comes down closer to like, you know, 40,500. It basically keeps getting lower and lower. And by the fifth run, it is now basically down to under 40,000. Is that because your loop, the water, the coolant getting saturated is hot? Yeah. Yeah. Even with an all in one a you know fairly decent 360. The cast part is just pumping so much power through it it's you know you start to is the water builds up the heat and then start to drop the scores. And you could see that in Robin's

testing by the way he has more tests over go look at his videos and but he also did it with custom liquid cooling. And you can see with custom liquid cooling, it's stable for the most part. That's actually trends up a little bit. Yeah, it actually gets a little faster. And then he actually did a deal. Ed And I'm not going to steal it because it would be wrong for me to steal. It should go look at his video. He does a full deal later on the 1400 K as part and he was able to get, I believe all t

he pictures up at six gigahertz, I think was a five, a very, very impressive performance. So when he delivers it, he also saw a tremendous drop in temperatures and also, you know, much better stability. And I think his scores were exceeding 42,000 cinebench r 23 with with a deleted part. So that kind of tells you what this chip is for. And by the way, in the other news, with the 14 900 K chip is Intel is given permission to system integrator is that's basically, you know custom boutique builders

like Falcon Northwest Maingear and sorry there's other people, there's Corsair, the other people that are building his machines, they're giving them permission to deliver them and offer the intel warranty. Now, I will say deleting from CES is not new voodoo PC did this like 1520 years ago, so it's not like it's really new. But Intel is saying we give you our blessing. And typically if you are a PC vendor and you delete it and something breaks, they have to eat the cost of the CPU, which is not

cheap, but Intel saying they're going to warranty it for them. So that's the new thing, right? Yeah, that's the new thing. And you could really see again, if you go out and buy one of these really, really nice tuned up boxes with custom liquid cooling and, and a deleted chip, you're going to get actually very impressive performance out of the 4900 cast part. So there is some reasons to say the chip can't justify its existence. But I will say this to keep Chewbacca and Elena happy. Yeah, it is

not a CPU for most people. 90% of people should not buy it now unless you're rich and you don't care. If I were rich, I wouldn't care. And I'd be totally happy. I wouldn't care what Chewbacca says. But for the most part, you shouldn't buy this chip. It is for extreme audiences. It is really, really just a to to get Intel in front of AMD a little bit to be able to make that claim and yeah, I do understand why people are hot about it. And they were like, it's terrible, but you know, there's some

reasons for it. Yeah, I don't buy it. I don't think it's for everybody, you know? Yeah. To me it's if you can articulate and say right now, this is why I want this chip, this is what I need it for, here's how I will use it. If you can say that to yourself right now and give yourself hard answers, you might be in the market for this chip, but if you like and awesome and enjoy it too, you know, like whatever don't let anybody grab, you know, drafty, called office. I'm ready to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah

. I'm the thing that I found in. Good. Yeah. The thing I found interesting, I was reading Tech Power up in Tom's Hardware reviews of them. There's a bunch of things I find interesting, but the part that really stood out to me is the eight core 7803 D is toe to toe with this thing and gaming performance and uses a third of the power. Right? So, you know half the people need productivity. Yeah. Yeah. It's so if you don't need productivity beyond eight cores like that it's really impressive with th

e 78 x 30 sterling performance that was the case. We need to move on to the MSA, the claw. So I've had this in for about a week now. Yeah, I have it right here in front of me. It is is on still. Nope. The screen turned off but yeah the new gaming handheld from amici. It is the first one to release with the core ultra platform inside. So I think it's been getting a lot of buzz but also a lot of people being like, okay, well, I'm not going to get it. Rightfully so. The the performance is is kind

of interesting. The interesting thing to me sorry to cut up your intro there is kind of what was saying about the reviews for the 1900 1400 x 900 others are I don't really see any mainstream reviews out there. And the fact that it went on sale, you know, a week or two ago is interesting. Some really interesting to hear what you have to say. Yeah, you know, I did bring that up. So I actually had a meeting with amici on Friday. That was one of the questions I asked is like, you know, why? From the

outside, that looks that looks pretty bad, right? A lot of times we would say, wow, they're not seating review units. That must mean that they are not not excited to get to get a bunch of review out. There's what they told me was that, hey, they wanted all of the orders to go to people like they didn't they didn't want to, you know, pull away and get review units. They wanted to focus on fulfilling the orders that had already been placed. That's a classic excuse, you know, Good on them, I gues

s. But yeah, reviews. I mean, I would say it's right now what's out is mostly first impressions. We actually did a livestream last Tuesday because we didn't because we didn't do the podcast just kind of, you know, going over impressions of the hardware and the the actual software experience. Now, once again, I finally got a a week in on it, and I've seen other first impression videos by awesome people like over on retro game core ETA Prime of the core suspects A Carrie from the FOX has it in an

d has been doing some testing as well so definitely more to come. But yeah. TLDR I mean the performance just isn't isn't there compared to if you're comparing it directly to the ally or the steam deck in any appreciable way. Right. The steam deck still is a monster when it comes to battery life and efficiency. The ally with that that Z one extreme chip, you know, still can can blow the doors off of it when it needs to. So you know in in most metrics it is not it's not the best performing options

. And curious on the other end of that I saw some some early testing on people testing the i5 the i7 so the two different there are two different versions of the claw. Well the i5 135h and then the 155h, the GPU inside is the exact same, same SKU core count, but the i5 version just has four less CPU cores. So the same CPU cores just four less CPU cores on the I5 and surprisingly, but also not surprisingly to some is that the i5 version actually outperforms the I7 version in a lot of testing. An

d that's because in in such a a thermally and power limited part, I think the max TDP is what 35 watt something, something like that. If it's firing up all those CPU cores, it's actively taking power away from the CPU. So when you have four less CPU cores to try to feed, hey, more power gets to go to the GPU or so I thought that was actually kind of interesting. Most of the time you wouldn't think that, hey, you buy the most expensive thing than it's going to perform better. In this case, it alm

ost actually looks like the the cheaper version is the more performant version out there, more testing to be done on that. I don't have an I5 version in to to test against, so I don't have any hard numbers. But that's an interesting thing. I mean, sometimes slower is faster when you're talking about when you're thermally capped, right? Yeah, Well I mean it's definitely once again the fox. Kari Awesome guy. We've had him on the podcast. We need to have him on again. He does a lot of really good e

fficiency testing, performance analysis, like really deep dive kind of stuff when it comes to the actual chip and the platform. So I'm very excited to see his testing around this stuff. But yeah. Gordon what do you, what do you think about this whole I5 versus I7 thing? Yeah, it just says that, you know, there's a, there's a thermal budget problem on, on the floor that they haven't gotten a handle on. I'm interested. Can you go into the you if I and disable cores is it give you that kind of you

know desktop like you know control over the course is a good question. I don't I don't know it'd be worth it feels like it's be worth disabling some of the cores in there but again this sort of speaks to I don't want to blame Microsoft again, but it feels like it needs we need more granular control over chips for performance. And of course, you know, because if you would think that the operating system would go like, you have an i7, you know, honestly, you should run. You know, you don't really

need all these cores be lit up and making heat, which of course then steals from thorough budget of the graphics core. Why don't we only run on fewer threads? Right. But it's not doing that. It's just simply doing a bunch of other stuff. And then now you run you hit that that that limit for your thermal and performance goes down. I would think that the operating system would be smart enough to handle that, but it, it isn't Right. Well, that's what it kind of says to me. Yeah. I mean and it is li

ke there are power management profiles in the MSI Center. They even have an AI based one depending on whatever application you're running. And yeah, I mean, it's generally at the heart of it basing it off of Windows Power management and which I would say is more of a generalization on, on where that's going to throw all kind of stuff. It is not going to be like, Hey, you know what, This game only really needs four cores, so let's just turn off all the other ones and give as much power to the GPU

as we can. It doesn't necessarily work as cleanly as that. There are third party, third party applications. Kerry has shown off some of them that he actually runs on his handhelds that will do that. Power management. And and of course, the steam deck is kind of different because it's Linux. There is some stuff going on there, definitely different processor, all that kind stuff. But generally on these Windows based devices, it is just a laptop with, you know, laptop based hardware in there. And

it is is trying to do so much in such a small form factor. So that's one end of the story. The other end of the power management, which is a weird thing which I did talk to MSA about, is that it comes with an included charger. It is a 65 watt charger. That's I asked them a charger. Well, I asked them. I was like, this oddly, looks like one that I've seen with a laptop and they they are going to confirm confirm it for me. But this just looks like probably the same charging brick that comes with o

ne their media leak based laptops, which is 65 watts. Let me double check. Yes, 65 watts, which is adequate for the claw. But when I got home, you know, and I have I have multiple charging bricks there, and when I turn the device on and when I was setting it up, I have a little cable that shows the little power management or the little watt reading on it. So I was like, cool, okay, it's you know, pulling the wattage. That's cool, you know? And I didn't think of anything when we were setting it

up, but when we were doing the live stream, I noticed I was like, Wow, Whatever I had plugged in at the time, it wasn't charging it. It was just bypassing the battery. And and so we actually tried a bunch of different chargers. I got one laptop charger to actually charge it in real time. It was a Lenovo 100 watt charger, which was weird. And then I went home again after the stream and plugged it into all my bricks again. And it's only providing power when when the device is on. It's not charging

it when it's off and it's not actively charging the battery when it does when it's plugged in. Well weird you I know that's using the OEM charger. No, no, no. The included charger works perfectly. It charges it when it's off, it charges it when it's on. It provides enough power. But everything else except for this one, Lenovo laptop charger, everything else is only providing power when it's on. It's not actively charging. I was going to say, because it's sometimes sometimes that's a thermal man

agement thing on the original steam deck, the if you were playing games and charging at the same time, sometimes it would sometimes, depending on how hot your CPU and GPU were running there, your HP was running there. True, it would slow down the battery charging a little bit because it couldn't handle the thermal load. Now that I've done a lot more just plugging in and actually looking at it is okay because I mean, the first indication of, hey, if the devices off, plug it in, it's not charging

it. It's there's no there's no power being delivered into the battery. And once again, when I when you turn it on is providing power I can I can see that the battery, the battery isn't draining, but the battery is also not going outside. Right. So and those chargers are actual high chargers Usb-Pd or I've used to run chargers. Yeah. So I have PD bricks that are 65 water 100 watt of use, different laptop chargers from 65 watt PD to all the way up to like I think 130. What is what I have like a De

ll one that goes all the way up that high. But yeah I asked us to I they have heard they have heard multiple reports about this I mean because this is kind of a problem if you can't charge it on anything but the the included charger. Yeah. I mean hey if you have the charger then cool. But it's just also not how I use it. I have I have PD based bricks that are awesome and everything else I can just plug into it and this one is not able to do it. So they're looking into it. They asked me to provid

e the specs of all the Chargers I've tried. They're not quite sure what's going on yet, but I told them I was like, This is something this is something that needs to be addressed. This is this is an interesting behavior. They're not quite sure what's going on. Is this an intel thing? Is this a, you know, their actual handheld thing? But this is this is definitely something that that scratches my head. Yeah. To me like I, I basically going to night school for Usb-C PD stuff and I would say it's s

omething that hopefully should be easily solved with you If I update once they sort of nail it down, it sounds to me like they're not negotiating the USB PD correctly from all of those third party chargers, which is a behavior from except for one. Except I don't know why this specific Lenovo charger actually did work. It's because there's a hole. There's three dozen usb-pd profiles, different shortages, and if they don't speak, they don't have if they don't if they don't have a common denominato

r between what they support, what the charger supports, then it'll charge with the least common denominator, which is going to be like ten watts or something like that. It should still charge though, when it's off, even if it doesn't have that that yo, but I know it doesn't charge at all. Even if it's off. Even if it's off. Yeah that's, that's, that's, that's why I think Yeah. Like early on I'll take a trickle charge. I'm like okay you know what. Yes. Some of them like, okay, you know what you'r

e, Not providing the full power, but it's at least trickle charging. This is literally providing No, no charge. Yeah, that's weird. Yeah. And again, that that's behavior that was similar to when Usb-C was first coming out. You know, HP only work with HP Usb-C Chargers, even those, you know, PD but they're feeling was you're going to blow up our laptop with your cheap ass you know $5 you know, AliExpress charger. So we're not going to we're not going to work unless it's you know identifies itself

as an actual HP charger, which is a good thing. Right? It is a good thing. And eventually we're sorted out. We're like, okay, Then they started to warn people and then eventually they actually updated the bios. So like, okay, we start, so it is probably easily solved. Well, and some people are saying, man, this is proprietary. I don't believe it's proprietary. No, yeah, we can no indication as it is that it is proprietary. Once again, they're looking into it. But that's definitely something whe

re I'm like, okay, pump the brakes. This this needs to be solved. We need to get you a Yeah. go ahead. Sorry I was just going to say that makes me wonder, how is the rest of the software an app experience, if that's such a part of this? That makes me wonder. There might be rough edges, you know the software. So amici has the amici center M which is I did confirm it's the mobile version of amici Center specifically for the Claw. It's a more lightweight thing, you know, it has the front end launch

er that you can kind of go into. You don't have to there's a, there's a toggle to turn it off at launch. It's I've run into a couple of bugs here and there I think more that it it is not as fully features as I would want especially the the on screen overlay for the for the actual performance metrics and there's some curious things in there like when you go to the extreme power performance pro for I'm sorry, the extreme power profile, you can manually set the fan curves, but when you go to the ma

nual power profile, which you can manually tune the power one appeal to, you can't manually set the fan curves, although you might as well put them in your fingers. And there's, well, whatever. For the most part, everything is in there for front end laundry you would want to use except for the overlay. The overlay is the real thing where I'm like, it's missing a lot of key metrics. It's not giving me a lot of the the good stuff. The slide out menu, I can't remember the name of it, you know, to t

o bring up the options. Yeah, the tree stuff, it works fine. Like it's not it's not a buggy mess. I've been able to use it just fine. I think it's just not feature rich at this point, which hopefully they're working on and will add to it from the I mean from everything else, the Windows side gaming on it it's it's fine. I mean I've had a couple of graphical problems. There's been reports, you know, certain games that don't like the ARC architecture and there's some bugs here and there, but this

is all work that Intel is putting on on the arc side. It's not really a mid-sized thing. So some of it is, you know, Intel putting in all that work into ARC to make sure it's running. At the end of the day, though, it is it is not as performant as AMD. Yeah. You know and a lot of people are like, wow, poor intel, they can't even keep up. True you know, like if you're looking for the maximum performance, if you're looking for maximum battery life, I wouldn't look at the clock right now, but hopef

ully that that changes, you know, hopefully Intel definitely shown that they are working real hard on ARC, getting, you know, performance and driver optimizations for newer games, all that kind of stuff. But yeah it's early days like I it's it's better than where it was but it's yeah it's not Yeah. As a product itself like to me I think I'd rather up with the other ones like you were saying the other handhelds but I think it's still good to celebrate the fact that Intel is even in that position,

even though they're clearly behind AMD. has. Two years ago there was no chance you'd ever find an intel chip inside of a handheld port. There, some that were offering them. But like I got the sense that they never sold those options because they were just Wait, yeah, this is this is much better than XY Graphics. It's built into a lot of these mobile platforms. This is much better. It's not up to where AMD is at, but also AMD has been killing it, so it's a stripped down arc. That's the GPU and t

his is that what is that? What this is was is souped up integrated and they realize that those are things that exist on the same spectrum. So this is not a discrete GPU, this is still a mobile package, but it is based off the same architecture that is in the discrete. So then my question is Meteor Lake, is there I mean, is Meteor Lake, is there potential driver of uptick on this down the road? Because I mean, we've seen arc GPUs have seen massive performance increases in the two years since they

've come out 100%. Okay. Yeah, I don't I don't. And I mean, they've done a lot of work specifically on like the DCS ten and and DCS 11 performance and stuff like that. So they've they've definitely they've definitely done a lot of work. But I think at the end of the day, it just doesn't have the umph. Like, I don't think at this point some of these games that are optimized are going to be like, wow, all of a sudden we flipped switch and you know, it's just as fast as this AMD processor. Like I d

on't get the sense that this the core count in these are GPUs in Meteor Lake is able to to keep up with that. Yeah so so I mean we I always say don't buy based off future promises buy it right now. So you know I do think the clock will get better I do think meteor Lake will get better. But I don't think this is a wow, this is a knock in the park, you know, And this is, hey, do you want the AMD or do you want the intel? It's not the same equation. Well, that's interesting as a people on the in th

e tower asking like, should they hold off and wait for a second gen possibly like, you know, because there's all these frustrations out now and it's been a while also since the steam deck that's come out. So I was like, well should, should they wait or should they bought or should they buy now? Yeah. I mean Asus has already mentioned that the, the, the second Ally is, is coming out this year. Steam deck I don't think is going to have a hardware review. She said not to expect anything for a while

when they release though especially on the processing side they might do maybe a slight revision or something kind of thing. So I look, I know. Yeah. So there's two questions there, right? There's always two questions. Should you get a steam deck or should you get something else? I think for the majority of people they just want a handheld console experience. Get a steam deck. Yeah, but if you already know you want a Windows device, which there are plenty of reasons to get a Windows based devic

e and there are a lot of people who already kind of know that that is that is a legitimate use case. I've been trying to rack my brain to be like, okay, there are reasons to get the ally, there are reasons to get the Legion go, even though it's that's not my favorite. There are reason to to get some of these iron neo devices like the Flip. They're really cool features and a lot of these I'm trying to think of a specific reason to get the MSI claw and unfortunately I can't. I can't, I can't think

of one like, hey, you know, like a moral objection to buying things from AMD. Yes, you're learning to read. Okay. Yes. If you're like, Hey, you know what, I just can't buy AMD then yes, this is your only option right now. I actually do have another handheld coming in the one X player x one also has a media like chip in it that I'm getting in. But yeah, at this point I can't see a specific need for or or unless like just an MSI fan. Yeah. If you're like, Hey, you know what, I love MSI stuff, the

n go with God. Cool. But yeah, like a lot of these handhelds the way or the the Windows based ones have some sort of differentiation. The RG Ally has this awesome 120 hertz VR screen. Awesome. Amazing for streaming games from your desktop. PC Yeah, the the Legion go has the detachable controllers. If you know you want that then then awesome so they each kind of have their own kind of little flavor but I can't point to one specific one on this one that's like, actually you know what? Well, but it

's all intel. The other thing that I've actually been testing is Egpu performance over Thunderbolt four, which is, hey, you know what? That's another way that I actually was able to it to charge with it off. I plugged it into my my thunderbolt four based Egpu dock and it charge there so but I mean the thing that struck me is talking about this the TDP was what, 35 watts you said. And when I looked at benchmarks higher. But yeah, when I saw the benchmarks for it, it's the steam deck said 15 watts

are crushing it in a lot of stuff and that's it's like that's shocking. Well it depends. Do you test wattage for wattage like hey 15 you know that the ally the whatever. Yeah the efficiency out of the steam deck is awesome. You can go higher. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So, yeah, I just I don't but in that equates the battery life to heat. I will say it is actually pretty cool and quiet like a lot of people are. Like, you know, there some early benchmarks out there to show like wow this this package

is hitting 105 C kind of thing. And it's like, why is this not okay? But the back is all is all great on this is also worth mentioning. Yeah, for sure. So a lot of people are like, my God, it hits 105. See, the thing is trash. It seems to be only in specific instances. Sorry, I've launched cat haters. Hey, I hope that's cat hair. Yeah, my cat. You get hair everywhere. So. Yeah, but. But for the most part, like the the the thermals, the noise profile, it's I would call it on par with the ally pe

rsonally for the games that I've been playing. But I have a question. Yeah. So I, I do wonder. So you don't really feel like Steamos versus windows is your clear winner yet or Funny you ask that. It's funny. We actually have a video going up I would say question to that after Yeah I would say yes there's a clear winner steam os. I think unless you're playing something that is for religious and corporate reasons locked off of steam. OS like you want to play Fortnite or Rocket League basically I t

hink stimulus is pretty pretty much the clear winner or Yeah or you know if if if you have specific launchers that you want to use and in which stimulus or at least the steam deck has gotten better about loading, you know, that kind of stuff on there. Yeah, but it's not it's not it's not windows. I mean it's literally windows. You can do whatever the hell you want with it. What do you want to do with windows? You know, like carry from the Foxy. His main desktop has been a GPD win three. Yeah. Fo

r years. Like he just uses it as a main desktop. So like, cool. If you want to buy this and have it be your own thing, you know, and it runs windows and there's plenty of power out there. That's not for everyone. I'm not saying everyone should do that, which is why I say, Yeah, I mean, the steam deck is just awesome. Steam stimulus is awesome. Like, well, but there are reasons to have windows for damn sure. Yeah. So here's my follow up though. Do you think that Valve will be committed to making

steam decks into the long, long future? Because it feels like the culture of Valve is they don't really necessarily want to be making hardware. They would really want to enable the ecosystem. So I, I would don't you imagine that we'd see steam OS loaded by third parties and then they just like they just kind of they slowly give up on making hardware because hardware is generally no fun to, to do because it's such a so having, having talked to a lot of the open source people at Valve and working

with the VR people Valve for a long time I worked at a VR company for five years, six years. I think that their strategy with VR was, Hey, we're going to make this thing with HTC and then the index because we want this hardware to exist in the world and hopefully that will snowball into a whole market emerging, which as we all know now, didn't really work out this go round with the steam deck. It seems like it's successful enough that it's become its own, its own. Like there's a section of valve

dedicated to steam deck at this point, both software and hardware. Now, what I think I mean, it's also open source, right? All of the stuff that they're doing, the XBMC stuff, all of the all of the proton stuff that they're doing is open source. And if they don't like in the old steam machines days when they launched those steam machines and what, 2014 or 2013 whenever that was the with Alienware and, and Maingear and all those folks that made a bunch of small form factor boxes that ran a kind

of janky version of Linux and didn't play games very well. Like those open source. People have been continuing to work on this stuff since then. Right? This like the steam deck emerged out of the work that in 20 you know ten years ago on on steam machines. So I got I think it's easy to look on the outside and say yeah Valve is a little shortsighted like it is a little short attention span on stuff sometimes. But but but I think I do think if they don't make a more portable version of steam OS th

at they can partner with OEMs to release. I think they think the community is going to do it for them. Right. Like that's where it's going to end up, which there are some versions hollow. So there's a new one, the spinoff of All the Way. It's already. BISSETT Right. Yeah, it I can't remember. I I've seen some articles of people saying like, hey, this is this is pretty awesome. I don't know. Yeah, that is a good question. And I have definitely been thinking about this. Well The question I have is

because I'm sorry, the head of Valve, Gabe Newell. Gabe Newell. Yes, thank you. Has been a strong opponent to Windows right you know clear early Microsoft employee founded Valve with with Microsoft money that he made working at Microsoft in true true well but I mean he he has been very vocal about Windows in the monopoly. Right. I think he doesn't like paying licensing fees to Microsoft probably. Right. They got they get really nervous around Windows eight and that's when they started developin

g the steam machines and they've used that to build this. I think it is like a potential escape hatch if they need it. Yeah, well, that's why I feel like the real long play is to make Linux of a viable option. A viable alternative. Right? That. That seems like the long game hardware. Yeah, maybe that can come and go. But to that in their back pocket to say hey you know what we can say a you to windows I mean I don't think they will but they could and Linux is like an awesome viable option right?

What do you think And like the thing that's happened weirdly is that the open source stuff is working right? Like there's there's a thing that happens in open source where when enough people start working on something or a company gets behind in a big enough way, they're putting actual engineering done on a project. All of a sudden the adoption increases and then the number of people contributing increases, then it snowballs and all of a sudden you go from absorbing like the janky third rate st

reaming software to being the clear market leader in every category. And and like we're approaching that point with with proton and Dxp, like there are, there are literal bugs in the windows AMD drivers that DCS VK fixed months and months ago that like have like when there's when there's cash and pipeline problems on the on the Windows AMD drivers that just don't exist on the steam deck because they fixed them in DCS and and the AMD open source drivers it's like ages ago and they just haven't be

en back ported over to Windows yet. So like, like it's, it's a like I could not be more bullish on steam OS and I hope whether it's Valve that releases it and decides to maintain a more public public publicly available version for not steam or someone else. I'm excited about that eventuality. Well then to go back to Gordon's question though, what do we think about the longevity of Valve and making hardware? Siddiqi Specifically, as long as people keep buying steam decks, they're going to keep ma

king them. Yeah, yeah. But I, I still think though, that like, like I sort of see culture is the devil's embrace publicly. You know, Gabe said this they embrace the open architecture of the PC so they just want openness. They don't want they don't want a closed off OS like, like Apple Hardware, right? They so I could see them they this the steam that kickstarts handheld gaming PCs. By the way you're going to buy all your games on the on the on steam but it's probably you know I will leave it to

the hardware people because I mean how much real money they're going to make in the long term when their money is really to be made in you know having steam be the game. Well the market. So I just I just kind of wondering of long term, all the the hardware partners take over sort of what the over the original machines was. But now we're we're seeing that come to fruition in the final. I don't think that's necessarily going to happen. Yeah, what happens, but we can already see we're starting to s

ee these Windows handhelds and I feel like a lot of the design decisions they've made with those are very tech marketing, bigger bar, better windows, laptops kind of decisions, whereas Valve and the steam deck, you can look at it, you could tell, Hey, you know, this thing has a low risk screen or it it has this for everything tailor made much more console. Yeah, much more. And even if they do wind up releasing it to more partners, which they've said they're going to not necessarily open source i

t and drop it on the internet which I think is a long term goal. But they said they're going to start giving the steam OS to other partners to use. You know, they're going to race to throw a 1448 piece green dot there. And that might not be the best thing for the idea of mobile handheld gaming itself. So I think Valve is likely to keep a hand in this market just to keep that guiding light, kind of considering like a surface, like a microsoft surface, but for steam well, here's the other advantag

e the valve has. They have the platform advantage because when they sell a game on Steam, they get 30% of the money or 20% or 10%, depending on how big the company is. Right? When MSI sells a handheld and then somebody buys a game on steam valve, gets 30% of the of the money on that steam sale. So that means MSI is competing with somebody who who could make very little margin on the console. And when they look at and Valve knows how many people get a steam deck and they immediately go download,

buy five new games, then then like they're able to say, these customers that are buying these handhelds that we sell for no margin are the most highly engaged customers. They buy the most games and they spend the most money on downloadable stuff and they buy in-game purchases and we get 30% of all of those sales. So we're going to sell our thing at cost and then everybody has to compete with Steam's lower power, bigger battery, longer battery life, smaller, cheaper screen device with bigger bar,

better marketing and like MSL, which I mean, yeah, but, but MSI and Asus and everybody else that's in that game, that's a, that's a losing game when you're competing at somebody who can sell it for, for no for nothing. Yeah. But long term though, that to me is a problem because if all of the hardware partners cannot compete with the steam deck because Valve doesn't care about making money off of it, what are they going to do? you know what? We are going to we are going to hang out with our best

friends, Microsoft now and then now you suddenly have you have the technical expertise of a Suse and Amazon and Lenovo and Dell and Alienware. And I'm just saying this because I don't know if they have handhelds, but now they're basically they're going to coalesce around windows. And then at some point, Microsoft is going to get its, you know, handheld game world in order. And then now it's steam deck fighting all these hardware partners. That to me seems like not a good future for a steam deck

or for Valve, whereas if they sort of embrace all these partners and not compete with them with hardware, they can build their store up. I mean, I just it just seems like once again, that's which is the goal. If the goal is to sell hardware, then then yes, they're doing an awesome job it but if the goal is to sell software then they should be more than willing to be like, yeah, we should get steamos OS on everything. Yeah, sure, maybe buy our stuff. But you know what? These other ones are viabl

e options too. I don't think those are mutually exclusive. I think they can. I think they can have this like you can hold both of those ideas in your brain at the same time without warping fabric of the universe. Well, I don't know, because unless Microsoft does do some major thing like like you're lot of yours there. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of rumors. But I mean, you're right, Gordon. I think that is, that is one of the problems is that these, these other companies that are trying to compete like tha

t, that's not how how long in the game is Asus and Lenovo and and that's going to be and I don't know I mean they seem very committed for sure and they're they're making awesome devices but in ten years can they continue to make razor thin margins. I mean we kind of saw that on the GPU side as well. You know, Evga came out in the early, hey, we got to get out of the game because we just can't keep up with this cheap stuff in razor thin margins. So like at that point though, like then then is Val

ve going to come back and be like, well, crap, in ten years we ate everyone's because we had a good product and now we can't move steam OS onto anybody else. Well, see, I don't think, I don't think Valve cares because like we'll sell steam regardless of whether you're having a Windows handheld or a Windows laptop or desktop PC as deep neck, you're buying your games or the vast majority of them. So they'll get that cut no matter what. Yeah, true. And yeah, whether like the difference is they're g

oing to maintain the steam of steam indefinitely probably if they if they don't maintain hardware team. Did they save any money. Not on Valve's scale. Right. They have 500, 600 people at Valve. I don't it's still not a huge company by the, by the like What was it that came out in the lawsuit. Revenue per head count is the highest of anybody in the tech industry. Yeah yeah 780 million per 100,000 per person or something. Yeah. It was crazy. So yeah, they're probably fine, you know? yeah. And here

's the thing. Like, I like the setup and I think there's a lot of room for experimentation with Steam OS based handhelds from third parties because Valve can go in there and say, Hey, with a with a low bar, like, we're going to make sure you have good battery life. We're gonna make sure that this works good. You get it cheap. We don't have to have the margin. But then that leaves room for folks like Lenovo and Asus and whatnot to offer. Okay. Hey, we're doing a 1440p LED screen. We're, you know,

putting in fancy joysticks, you know, upsells. And when you're working in experience, upsells like that those inherently lend themselves to being able to charge higher prices. So I think I think there's there for that. And, and the thing that's easy to forget is now the barrier to entry for a gaming PC is lower than it ever has been before, right. Because 300 bucks you can buy a refurb steam deck that's going to play the vast majority of games that are on steam. And and if you want to play more

that you can put windows on it and that stuff will work, too. And is it going to be great for Cyberpunk? No. But will it run cyberpunk? Absolutely. Well, I even ask why is the most likely review ended up in discussion about a feature of steam deck? Good point. We can come back to the claw. This isn't a review though. Not a review. Yeah, this is not a review. It is. It is still early impressions, but yeah, once again, as I'm playing it, I mean, I'm forcing myself to play it. This is my first tim

e with Meteor like in any appreciable way. This is obviously a midsize first handheld, and I'd like to make sure I have a ton of time with the platform to kind of form formulate my opinion on it. But once again, as of right now, I don't have like these other devices. I can't specifically call to one thing to be like, Hey, you know what this is? This is the reason why why you would want the amici version once again, other than unless you just don't want to have AMD or you're a huge, massive fan e

ither way. I mean, I will say. I've seen more people learn about who MSI is than, than, than ever. Like, there were people our in our stream last week that were just like, Wait, who is MSI? You know, And we know MSA. But I mean, I think I think, you know, this has definitely elevated MSA in the discourse out there. Some of it is negative, but, you know, some of it I think a lot of people say, hey, pep publicity is still publicity. Well, a certain degree. And there's nothing keeping them from mak

ing an AMD version of this is some point in the future. Right. Like they have the molds, they have the chassis, they have all the sets of design. It's changing the motherboard out. Gives you an APU version that is maybe more competitive. Well, and I think I think that that will be whoever can do that first will have a big win, whether it's Asus, Lenovo, MSA, if they can come out and be like, Hey, do you want X product with, you know, when you go to buy it, you pick do you want the Intel version

of the AMD version? That would, that would be all, That would be great. I love that. Yeah. And do you want more Do you want less storage. Do you want more Ram. Do you want less ram? You know, the more options in there, the better. And yeah, I could see I could see all of them getting that point in. A lot of the cases, most people are just going to buy the AMD version and hopefully Intel can continue to improve on the platform. There's more to learn. Obviously, Meteor Lake is still Meteor Lake as

of right now, but there there is new what Lunar lake is next right Gordon is that the. Yeah it's yeah you know Intel's if they're either fab projections are correct they are going to be a force to be reckoned with. So the really exciting thing to me is that they've finally, after 1520 years of this sticker being one size, they've shrunk it down to a quarter of the size. So there's a little tiny intel inside sticker that's basically a quarter of the size of the normal intel. TINY Yeah, yeah, yea

h. It's busy now. I've never seen this before. Maybe. Maybe you have. But yeah, you know, on every laptop, you, you get that little core sticker, right? And it's about posters, postage size that rolled out with like the Pentium, I think. Right. Or Pentium. Pentium two maybe 20 years ago, 35 years ago. I, I think it predates it. And I as I understand it, you get money. So you put the intel inside sticker on your device. You get money is why Apple doesn't do it because they don't care. They don't

want to like put a sticker on or a laptop. What's wrong with you? But I know the stickers to the back of your car so everybody knows you have a nice Mac book inside the window to you know what? I'm going to get a ruler because I'm curious. What do you think? So another couple quick for general, not necessarily related to the clock since like we sort of understand the clock is an interesting first generation product that is fairly limited in its appeal over AMD based systems. But what happens sho

uld one does. Microsoft is its own Microsoft to get serious about making it gaming OS or some kind of a fork for stripped down windows? Basically? I mean, not I mean, clearly handheld is a is a is a potential big future. And then all the other thing is, you know, all these hybrid designs, we've already talked about that with chaos and we talked about that with X 3D parts where it's a problem, it just something it feels like they need to almost get like serious about making a gaming centric OS if

they don't want to let somebody else kind of move in here. And then where do you think this leads in media? Well, so there's that is a good those are good questions. Really good. Quick, I did measure it. The normal sticker of a Intel core sticker on this laptop is two. Okay. Yeah. It's square. The the, the tiny one on the missile claw is one millimeter. Yeah. It's the quarter of the size. Half the money or quarter. The money for that is the question. I don't know but Yeah I, yeah I want to know

you know hopefully I wonder if amici went to Intel and was like listen we can't put a two millimeter sticker, you know, two millimeter by two millimeter sticker on this. It's this tiny can you please make a small one and yeah. Is a 15 two centimeters. Right. Millimeter. It's just one in the laptop. It's not, it's not millimeter. As well as two millimeter. No that's two centimeters dude. Yeah. okay. So like I know it's American American units guy, you know. Yeah. We don't. Yeah. So okay, two par

t question. What's in video? Think about all this and two, so for me and should Microsoft care for me, there's two Microsofts, right? There's Microsoft that cares about Windows, and then there's Microsoft that cares about selling people services. And I think that the side of Microsoft that's like selling services is really enthusiastic about selling people into Game Pass Ultimate with cloud streaming and that that's probably if they release a box, a handheld, that it's a thing because already th

ey've come out and said, hey, we're going to make cloud streaming available for your entire digital library, not just games that are on game Pass, but presumably you'll have to be paying for Game pass in order to get access to that streaming or some there'll be some ongoing cost to the user. My guess is that if Microsoft does a handheld, it's a yo you can play your game pass and Xbox 360 and Windows store library in the cloud not hey you can run Xbox you can run PC games locally because I think

they care less about that market than getting $15 a month from people forever and ever and ever. And to the same thing when we were talking earlier about the chaos and the the hybrid architecture stuff. Yes. The handhelds is is a big market. A lot of people are talking about it. It's got a lot of buzz. But in the overall scheme of Windows, is Microsoft actually going to peel away the resources needed to make to address such a small market? Well, I mean, how many they've sold millions steam decks

at this point, but those are steam decks. No, no, I know, I know. But I mean, I think I think if you're they're concerned about something and so they're concerned about the encroachment of Linux on gaming, which is one of the tentpole uses of the x86 Microsoft architecture and and like that has to be the concern at Microsoft. Not that they won't have a way to dump Candy Crush on your steam OS machine for you. So you can have that there and they can get some incremental revenue for everybody who

accidentally plays that one day. I don't know. Well, yeah, there worry would have to be so great to be like, Hey, you know what? We're going to take away the resources to do that. I hope they do. I really do. I want to see that. But I don't know at this point. I'm not convinced. I don't. Yeah, yeah. No it's it's interesting future I because you, you let somebody build in your backyard and you just keep letting them build in your backyard. You wake up and there's a massive, you know, empires the

re. So I it does feel like they're going to have to take it more seriously because, you know, the steam deck has been a phenomenal hit and has proven it can work. So if they want to if they want to, you know, crush it, they're going to have to actually get serious about making a better gaming OS, you know, for handhelds for hybrid designs on PC. And I wonder on the Nvidia side, like the Nvidia, the question is the wild card because we haven't heard a whole lot about what's going on on the Tegra

side in a while. I mean, they're in the Nintendo Switch suite and presumably obviously whatever the switch in order. Yeah, ARM is definitely something that they're very interested. I mean they tried to buy ARM, right. So I mean but they're also raking in lots of money right now. But I can say it's Yeah, but that means they have more money to pay for more resources. So I don't, I don't think in the near cares. Yeah. Like don't even put out budget for use anymore like to make a itty bitty chip to

go on handhelds. I just really think they care. They'd rather sell the big ones that they unveiled yesterday for $200,000. Well and Nvidia has dipped in their toes in this water before, right? Like they did all this shields where you could set it up. You could if you had an infinite deepness. She'll sit on your couch and do the thing that I do with the steam deck every day where I stream the game from the from the big PC to the little computer. And it was awesome. And it was rad. And then they s

topped making because they sold like 18 of them. And it was a huge boondoggle. And now they're selling a bazillion aid GPUs and making, you know, huge super turbo water cooled for, you know, Rackmount and like, I don't care. I just want I just want faster video cards. Like in a world where they weren't focused on all the AI stuff and that's where all their growth was and that's why their stock was the highest it's ever been. And that's why we're the most valuable companies in the world. And tha

t's why Jensen's bought a 17th super yacht or something. I assume they they would be doing Tegra steam OS machines, right? I don't I don't think they need to care right now. You know, I would actually lay the blame for the original shield, which was really a really pretty awesome handheld gaming device. The time I would blame Google for that. Google was not a good and frankly, as an Android user, Google is not a good steward of the OS. And I would say they Google mismanaged that that as well. Bu

t was it Google or was it Nvidia because like they forked in Android? Were they do they have Google apps on on the Shield? Well he was Android they did know but you know you can't it was the experience because I loved the design the physical design of it it was a fold up clamshell device with the controller on it and it was terrible because like Android, most of the games just did not map over to the controls because Android games in support supported. They actually had this thing, well, we are

going to have this like clue G thing where you can map the controls and then the community can actually release the profiles. And that kind of went nowhere because none of the games I mean, it's that there's a reason why the entire world is iOS, right? Because the it's a more uniform experience and they manage it better. And Google is just, you know, who knows what they're doing with it. So they I really would blame that one on on Google, frankly. So not the hardware. I mean yeah it was also ear

ly for ARM. Yeah. But yeah I was going forward though I do wonder if hey whatever is coming out, whatever work in video is doing with Nintendo for the successor to the switch, could they then be like, hey, we're also then going to use this as a way to get into to gaming devices? I don't know that well. And do we know that Nvidia's doing the successor to the switch already. Is that is that. Yeah that's that's, that's a big assumption. Yeah. That's not confirmed. Yeah. So like it wouldn't surprise

me if Nintendo goes with an APU this time just so that the, the back ports and the cross ports for games are easier. Yeah. Well they've, they've at least said that. Hey the Yeah the, the this generation is going to be one of the smoothest moving generations the games are going to be back ported and that kind of stuff. So I, I feel pretty confident saying it's going to be in video based. Hey I, I unfortunately have to hop off. I didn't expect to talk about the case in the MSA cloud to take a ful

l 2 hours. Sorry. I bet he's a busy man. It's good loss. I love it. Gordon. Love seeing your man. I need that TPS report on Friday. Yeah. I take it that Joe. Thanks, Brind'Amour. Thanks for asking about my out. So. But I think. Okay, so if if that is the case, I don't know. I don't know the expected performance. I'm not a leaker. I don't follow that kind of stuff. So I don't know the expected performance of whatever the Tegra newest Tegra process is on. So I don't even know if it can compete wit

h our card or AMD based offerings. But I don't know. I, I bet there are people in in video who would love to be in there. Well, I'm sure they do it. I don't know. But I mean, like Tegra is still around. Like They are continuing to develop Tegra, right? It's not dead in the water. Yeah, you're right. Because it would be a little it would be a little complicated to build the heart, the guts of the next switch and then also sell, you know, something for gaming, handheld as well. So they would be di

rectly competing with their customers so that that would be a little strange. A little bit. I mean, I don't know if Nintendo would see that, though, because, you know, I bet Nintendo doesn't care two craps about. Well, they don't need to because, you know, they're like they make magic, right? Nintendo makes magic. So, yeah, I mean, arguably they whatever the next which is you know it's going to sell boffo because they have they have they have a tune just right. Everything is correct. And you've

got the force of behind it. Well, you've got the games they build. They build games for the hardware rather than the other way around. Yeah. Yeah. And they're amazing at building games. So. Yeah. So I don't know. Good questions. I mean, I hope once again, I'm glad Intel is here in the call. I want, I want there to be an AMD for I mean they have they've killed it in the handheld space but it is always nicer when there's more competition. Competition is good is competition is good. Always if in vi

deo can get in there too. yeah, I would love that. And then yeah, you would have to really kind of differentiate on the the software offerings or the actual design of the handheld offerings, all that kind of stuff. I, I love seeing kind of stuff, but it's early days also. I think the bigger question is, so is is this handheld space going to be around for a long time? Is it going to continue we're in what is that hype cycle? What is it called? The Gartner Hype cycle. Yeah, right. Like we're still

pretty early. dude, we're through it. Sort of. They've sold millions of units. We went we went through the of disillusionment faster than I've ever seen with really deep dark. The trough of disillusionment was entirely in the period of time when Nvidia, when Valve couldn't make steam decks fast enough to sell them to everybody who wanted to buy them. And they were like, Yeah, it's going to be a six month wait before you can order it now and you'll get it in like June. This we're good. It's thi

s is a product that's this is a market that will continue indefinitely at this point. Yeah. Yeah. And you know for Valve it's like a long it's, it's, it's long overdue because let's be honest, everything else is it's flamed out. Got a valve index I paid a lot of money for and I've got like six different of those ridiculous steam whatever machine remote things were delayed blown out for. man I love the link. I really do because I bought them when they were selling them for like $10. So but I trie

d giving them away. I control the damn things right? So I know the controllers. Honestly, I wish that they would make a version of the of the current steam deck streaming endpoint that you can do a 260 or and 4k HDR with now because the only problem with the steam like is it only goes up like 1060 or something I think. Yeah. What. Yeah. Imagine imagine a steam deck device that you could plug into your TV, It was just a little box or just a little block. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I've never heard of anyth

ing like that. That would be amazing. Some sort of steam machine. Yeah, well, we have a friend of the show, Kyle from Hard OCP TV. In the chat he concept, Kyle says there are still hurt feelings at Nvidia about the failure of Tegra sold less than 10% of internal sales projections allegedly. So maybe that's enough for them to be like, Hey, you know what? We need show that Tegra is is awesome. It's it's so unfortunate because they launched that at such an early time. And you look at what happened

three years later when when AMD started rolling out the M1 M2 Apple started rolling out M1 M2 and and how like two extra versions of ARM were enough to kind of give it the performance room that in anyway, you know too early too early to offer early on you don't I'm excited but you know you have to the only the only company that could have pulled off what it has pulled off of is Apple because you have to have the iron fist of Apple to to be able to do that. I don't the problem with Nvidia is the

y don't control the operating systems and all the other things. You have to control every single bit of it. And I don't I don't think that kind of works in the in the PC ecosystem because you have to have partnerships whereas Apple don't it. You do what Apple does or you know as I said, they take you behind the shed. So what are you going to do? Gordon I never expected you to express express admiration and admiration for Apple in this particular space or what you have to you have to you have to

respect what they've done. Who the hell would think you could change architectures for? I don't know. Is it more than four times? Well, you have you have moto you had to the IBM powered PowerPC. You had x86. So we're on the phone. Yes we are worth Yeah. So I mean, honestly, there is no other no other company could have survived that. Everybody would have just it would have been instant suicide and you would have banished. But, you know, because they have basically fanatical followers and they ha

ve this iron fist, you know, method of dealing with all of their customers and partners. It has worked out. I mean, the trains, the train runs on time in North Korea. The one train runs on time. I mean, look, look, Gordon, I understand the metaphor and this line. Okay, let that line. Of course, you're not standing in line correctly. Last question, Gordon, from a front of the show, Yvonne, he poses at the beginning of the show, and I want to get to it because I've alluded to it on the show before

. Gordon Right now, what is your favorite handheld? Well, you know, we bought a switch over Christmas, so I would say that's probably my favorite handheld, I guess. Are you playing games on the switch? Gordon Now, why? When I, I was just amazed by how well the switch is nailed down. Like everything on markets and everything, it's just like, wow, they really you can understand. I could understand for the first time, I could really understand what the magic of the switch is because they, you know,

I mean, they're not quite apple like, but they really have everything nailed down. So I was I was quite impressed by that. But I mean, there I guess I would probably say maybe Calico Football or the soccer game was way better than Cleveland football. Are you kidding? That's something like the first second there I was like, wait, what? The football? So like, well, you could win the football every time the soccer, though, you could play against other people. It was it was hard. I had the basketba

ll, the metal basketball one which was pretty okay. yeah. I thought the the Calico football one was much better than the stupid ass metal one because all you did was run pass everybody. I mean, it's great if you want to be a running back, I guess, but in Calico there is passing. You remember there is that you could actually pass the ball down the field. It was like it was like wow. So probably click on football. I really should look on eBay for one. The baseball. Did you play the baseball one th

at was shaped like an actual diamond? That was that was pretty good. I don't know. I think a lot of the the those early handheld metal ones were pretty lame. So the clicker one was definitely it even had like a toggle switch you could do. I can't even remember where it did look. They did a lot with No, I see. So you know. Yeah. Well Gordon, I do have a steam deck. Lead ready. Ready to drop off to you. See? So you want to try it? Yeah, I know. I definitely wouldn't try it. It's the your Linux de

sktop. Gordon. This is finally it. It's happening. It would be nice. It would be nice to actually see it all. Come together. So. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, Let's get to Q&A before we get out of here. We have definitely been going long, so if you have a question, get them in the chat right now. I'm probably only going to pull a couple of them, but there are some good ones that I do want to get to. We do have a couple of super chats, actually. Well, both of them are from the same friend of the show Coffee

gave US a ten Canadian dollar super chair. Thank you so much. Always appreciate it, said Jensen was having a blast at the GTC keynote. He was cracking jokes and seemed to be in really good mood. I wonder why. I mean, who wouldn't be happy if they just if they just became the 19th richest person in the world? Gordon, Did you watch the GTK keynote? I Watched most of it, but then I had to get on a zoom call with somebody. I would think. You know, again, I don't think he is necessarily I don't thin

k it's about the money. I think it's about the winning. It validates his lifelong, you know, pursuit of being of winning. And he's winning right now, clearly. I mean, you think about it, Jensen, a guy who was picking fights with Intel, like in the 1990s, right. 2000, he was picking fights with Intel and which is crazy. You think about the force Intel was in the 2000 and he was picking verbal fights with them and he has not led off of that despite you would think it not working out but it really

I would think that's the happiness is like all those visions have have are paying off and he's introducing a new part. I've been in where he's introduced new parts and he's always loved to do it. And he's also introducing something that is going to make tremendous value for everybody. So when everything it's great to be a winner, it is really great to be a winner because you're pretty happy at that point. And then all eyes are on him. And I'll say, I don't think it's about money, is what I'm say

ing. Yeah, No, I completely agree. The wind loves to win and he's been he I mean, he told us 20 years ago that the GPU was going to be the more important, the most important thing in your computer. It's like G-force three launch I think maybe he was when he when he when he dropped that one the first time. And here's the other thing. He's he's good at the CEO keynote like in a way that a lot of other like like you look at like musk or a lot of these other people and they're just bad it and Jensen

is is charismatic and and and like knows how to control the stage and has clearly spent time getting good at it because he didn't used to be good at it or didn't used to be as good at it at least. Yeah I mean, he enjoys it too, really. Like, I saw him at Taipei and he was, you know, in front of a crowd of 5000 people, it feels like. And just and then he he waited out into the crowd like there's a mosh pit and you're like, surrounded by his security people trying to clip. I know. Like, I can't b

lame you, like, worth billions of dollars and you hear just crowd surfing in. This crowd doesn't actually crowd some of them, no one else. So then that and then he did a press conference with, you know, 150 international press. And it's his element. He's he's you know, I know PC gamers. He's not your favorite person, but you have respect the ability for him to execute and to be able to get out there and not make major, major flubs or also bore the hell out of you because I've been at plenty of k

eynotes where they're just terrible, right? Yeah. Teacher and I, I actually I've seen, you know, you see like the three shirt, the three names shirt thing. I think it would be I think we could actually successfully have a shirt that says basically Jensen Lisa and Pat at this point because you know, those are three CEOs that can get on the stage, they can present, they can talk, and they keep you well entertained. And they also have a deep understanding of the subject matter where. They can answe

r it. Whereas, you know, there are a lot of keynotes by CEOs that are just really, you know, I guess the kids who say cringe because it's like, my God, this is just like so boring and so bad. But it's, you know, really rare for that to happen with those three people. So, yeah, well, the the actual question the second follow up with the two Canadian dollar super chat from front of the show coffee as also do you know if Blackwell is a monolithic die. Good question Brad might know yeah I didn't he

showed off right but I said kind of interesting split right Yeah out of there there is a partition between them It's like a dual die but I mean I don't know if that I don't know. I didn't watch the keynote. I saw some people talking about it. Obviously, we didn't talk about it here on the show because lean towards consumer stuff. So we don't fully know how that's going to flush out on the consumer side. I haven't really caught up with it, but I am curious to know, did you see the robot stuff? Wh

en I went back in and he was on the stage with the robots, which I didn't see the robot stuff, it was pretty cool because it, you know, it looked like an Iron Man thing where they were like, you know, 12 or 15 human sized robots. And I thought they were they're actual robots. I don't know if they were or were they were projections. And then he had two smaller robots on stage that walked up to him. And I, I was trying to make up an image of that. It was I was going to say, you know, I had a pictu

re of Jensen with the robots and it was like, you know, go and this one, this, this droids got a bad motivator, you know, But I couldn't because Photoshop let me he's trying he's not he's not Star Wars. He at this point he's going to Iron Man if anything you know that's that's you know Kyle Participe, a friend of the show, confirms that the B 200 is CHIPLETS So multiple dice, B 100 is monolithic. Desktop will be monolith. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you, Kyle was a huge die. That's all I took awa

y from very large. Yeah. Imagine what that means. Yeah, that means a 5090 is going to be double the size of a 4090. Let's I'm going to say 5090 will be 2018 99, 1899. Easily. My guess is you install your motherboard in CPU inside the 59 there go might as well at this point. Yeah. Yeah. All right. And we got a $5 super chip from David. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. It says I don't have a question. Well, I have, but have a many W e I don't know. I'm just happy to see Gordon back. He and Evga

have been part of my time building PCs for 20 plus years, so. Yeah, same. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be back. Yeah, glad to have you back. let's do it. We do have a couple of questions over on the Discord. If you want to join in on our Discord, there's a link in the description. We got some fine, fine folks over there. Not going to get to all these. We will. We will hold on to these till later. Here's a boy. Okay. I'm going to get this one from a friend of the show, mostly running. It's

stock ish. What do you think of the continuing development of present mine 2.0 A friend of the show, Steve over at Cambridge Nexus did a another video with friend of the show Tom Peterson over it Ian into an intel about new updates to present on adding in more ways to kind of see what's going on within the gaming pipeline so people can understand fully what's what's happening. A lot of it is honestly still over my head personally. But Gordon, did you get a chance to watch that video with Steve

or No? Yeah, I saw it with the by the way, go over to gamers Nexus, subscribe and click like he has a video with Tom Peterson or tap of Intel. Our team, where he shows off the brand new presentation. And it's actually pretty cool because it really is building on the, you know, helping people understand where exactly the bottlenecks are in a in a gaming PC building on that GPU weight stuff like in there. It's interesting he in the video Tom talks about where previously people thought like this i

s actually a GPU bottleneck but actually it turns out it's a CPU bottleneck. Also pointing out that with Fraps, which people use for a lot of analysis, in the past it actually was incorrect because of the way Fraps was implemented in, in sort of understanding where we're the bottleneck is to a lot of people using Fraps thought it probably was actually if I'm getting this right again it was they thought the the bottleneck was the GPU bottleneck, but he did end up turning out to be CPU bottleneck

because of the way Fraps was designed as as Tapp called it a shim. It's just kind of jammed in there and it would actually cross over like more of where the frame generations were to where you would think it was GPU bound, but it was really CPU bound. So this, this presentation is it should help a lot of things I actually downloaded. I was kind of messing with it, but I don't ever have any real machines up and running. So it is it is good. And if you don't know presentment for people don't know

presentment is basically been out. Intel has developed that tool for a long, long, long time. It's the basis of many tools used by cap frameworks and some of their tools are out there are based on it. So there's just a lot of people who use the stuff that Intel has has done, and it is kind of nice to see that they're developing this now to help people understand where the bottlenecks are. You know, I it's it's good stuff. I'm glad it's there, too. I wanted to dig more into it, but what do you th

ink? Yeah, it definitely seems like it needs to be a little more friendly for average people because that's why people love using afterburner, because you you think you know what it is, but it would be nice to have the presentation be a little more understandable, I think, for an average person. Well, the gamer, the benefit of having cross-platform tools or across vendor tools, I guess to do this kind of work with is that you can like if you're the engineer at a game studio, his job it is to fig

ure out why you have frame tags in three parts of this one level. Then you don't have to learn a new tool for each new job you have in each new game you work on. You can just use the same thing over and over again, which which actually cuts down those that that like. It turns out learning how to use the new tool is is one of the big gates on on doing a lot of this work sometimes so the profiling stuff is always it's always it's the reason that early access games often get really fast there. Peop

le complain about performance during the entire early access period. Then like a month before launch, you'll be like, wow, this early access game suddenly got fast. What? What the heck happened? And it's because you don't look at that performance until the very you it's not a thing you look at until the very end because often you'll make changes that'll jack up whatever you do to fix it and you don't want to, you know, you don't do that work twice. Right. Are are people still primarily doing are

are game developers so primarily doing all development on x86, you know windows and then using that for their ports to console. I mean I mean it is it still goes to the console first and then sort of comes back but I've always long understood or been told that the tools for PC development are just so much better that that's where people are still doing a lot of development, even though for some reason when it comes back to the PC, it's sometimes a pile of poo. So that's a mechanism. So every st

udio's different. Like obviously like first and second party, Sony stuff is probably going to do PlayStation first, which is I think Sony and Nintendo are probably the more challenging development environments. Microsoft has its own unique set of problems just in the way they implement you. WP and and Microsoft store versions of games sometimes is weird and has some weird emulation stuff going on, although I think there are ways around that now as well. But for the most part, everybody, even if

you're building a PlayStation game or Nintendo game, you're you're writing the code on a Windows machine. Now, the thing that started happening is I've started seeing like I've been I've been talking about indie developers, about going to work for them, frankly. And I'm seeing more people that are like building their 2D indie games on that are Godot or Unity or even Unreal in some cases, and they're building on them on on our MacBooks, which I was surprised by. So non 3D stuff. People are doing

more, more mobile. Yeah. Are you when you when you started at a place they're like, do you want a PC or Mac? And if you ask for Mac, they give you an M1 or M2. MacBook Pro, Yeah, I know. That is, if you're right Apple Apple is Apple's always looking to eat somebody lunch. So one day they will make a serious run at PC gaming and we have to be prepared for that Apple handheld. No, they're never going to do that. We already have the Apple handheld. It's in my pocket right now. Apple is if look, if

there's one thing that you can trust that Apple's going to screw up, it's gaming over and over again because they make billions of dollars on gaming. And it's the kind that none of us care about it. You're right. You know, our last question, we got to get out of here. Friend of the show, Vicky Jester asked a funny question, spurred on by something you said earlier. Gordon, you've been in Carbonite for a year. What's the first thing you do when you unfrozen? Nothing, Literally just, you know, I d

id have a burger. I mean, that was like like I like those things. So you're frozen like this, you know, for a year, and they'd thaw you and you're like, man, think that burger? I did actually have a it was like it was cool because, like, I couldn't even stand the smell of hamburgers for a while. So to be able to actually eat a hamburger with onions on it was like I had in and out burger the other day. I was like, my God, I can eat that again. yeah. So I'm cheap too. Yeah, I would say like, of c

ourse my wife is like, you know, you just had a burger yesterday. It's like, I want another one today. You look, you're seven months off, you're behind. You got to have one in the fridge. I had my son pick it up. It's like, Hey, bring that burger over from the let's see, I put in the fridge because I'm going to, I'm going up, I'm going to heat it up. And it's not great reheated. But I know better than not having a burger, I guess. Yeah. Okay. I think it will. You're frozen in carbonite then thaw

you. man. First thing you want to do. I don't even know, man. Frozen in carbonite. It sounds ideal to me. That's like I'm just take a nap, get a good sleep in, like, you know, maybe get some audio books piped in there. Well, I'm in. Well, I'm in there, too, so. Yeah, maybe. Maybe it hits, maybe it doesn't. I don't know. I'd probably get a slice of pizza, though. It would be my my number one food related to all thick pizza. Pizza got Gordon Planet the food seed in my in my head I think so you Wi

llis will do any thoughts well and I think a pizza yeah pizza is definitely the one I'll go to you know it was either pizza or noodles for me right. Like a big bowl and noodles. yeah. For you. All right, Well, yeah, I guess I'm the weird one because all I could think of was Austin Powers to get frozen, and then he just pees for a long time, like. Yes. Yeah, well, you don't really need to go. Yeah, that was my first thought. I was like, Man, I bet you're frozen for a year. You get out, you probab

ly really need to pee. Look, I old enough. Gordon. Gordon does this pain. Once you reach a certain age, it's like 2 to 3 hours. You're like, Man, I could be no problem. That's never an issue. All right. Why would you need to? You were frozen. You're not like, I don't know. GOLDMAN That's still a recipe is frozen. Two, I still crack up every time I see. my goodness. It's pretty good. So here's the question is the start of the 40 year old virgin or the start that Austin Powers bit the funniest ske

tch in a movie in that decade. What was the the the he just wakes up in the wax, he pees all over himself. when I when I start talking about, I realized this is increasingly the table. I was like, why is this Harry on high? Yeah. Anyway, Kyle says, Thanks, guys. Great show. He he understands that it's over. We're done. No more left to do except for the outro for your fix of PC talk in the Fool Nerd. Tune in next week because next week we've got another podcast we might have something interesting

in the pipe as well. Hopefully we'll work that out. I like to think there's something interesting every week. Adam I can't guarantee it. I can't guarantee it. Sorry to listen to us on the go. Subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify Pocket Casts, YouTube music. Now don't don't go over to Google podcasts. Don't go over to Stitcher. That's dead. Yeah. And if you are one on one of the services, please leave a review every time you leave a review. Gordon gets another cheeseburger because he needs

them and he needs those burgers. Thank you, Gordon. Thank you, Gordon, for joining us. Glad glad to have you back. Yeah, it seems seems like people are excited to have you back. So. So thank you. Yeah. And I've missed you all. So. And thank you for everyone. The support and love. And it is awesome to be back in the community of nerds, nice nerds that we've built here. Good nerds. Yeah. Give us a thumbs up. Give us a little heart on that little thing in the chat. The little heart thing? Just a g

reen heart. yeah. You know, you got to the. Thank you will always be here, Adam. Glad to have you here in person. We're actually going to be down at GDC, The game developer conference. Yeah, poking around. We have some appointments, but mostly just kind of seeing what's going on with the PC and PC gaming. So I'll tell you, I was down there yesterday. It looked like. Like the extras from the background, the hackers walking around everywhere you go. It's amazing. game developer costumes strong. Th

is nerds will play nerd cosplay here and thank you Will is for controlling the vertical and horizontal. Get us the hell out of here. All righty. Thank you, Adam. You know, I don't say I miss this. I having Gordon, you know, back on back on the show and I, you know, echo with everyone on the channels that, you know, we miss you, Gordon, And definitely to have you back, the hearts haven't stopped the go. Yeah, definitely Hearts hasn't stopped. So, yeah, people's hearts keep those hearts going. Tha

nk you, everyone, for tuning in and we'll see you next time. By.